Catholic Leaders: The Pope Still Thinks Sexually-Active Gay People Are Going to Hell

I knew all along I would be writing this piece. I had hoped it would come a day or two later. But when people are interpreting the Pope’s words (“Who am I to judge [gay people]?”) as encouragingly tolerant, there isn’t a moment to waste. Doctrinaire cardinals must rush to assure the world that the Church is as tough on gays as ever, and don’t you forget it.

Leading the pack is Cardinal Timothy Dolan, Archbishop of New York, who hastened to explain that this is just another one of those love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin deals:

Cardinal Timothy Dolan

While certain acts may be wrong, [the Church] would always love and respect the person and treat the person with dignity and not judge them… Jesus, when he met the woman who was going to be stoned to death for adultery and he threw all the people off, he said ‘I don’t condemn you, but don’t sin anymore’. In other words, I love you and respect you, but I’m calling you to virtue and perfection.

Never mind that gay Catholics, unlike the woman caught in adultery, have no church-approved outlet for their sexual expression, nor that the Church is fighting loudly and vociferously to ensure their religious rules for marriage continue to apply to non-Catholic couples.

Chicago’s Cardinal Francis George also responded with his own interpretation of the pontiff’s words:

[Pope Francis] reaffirmed the teaching of the Catholic faith and other religions that homosexual genital relations are morally wrong. The pope also reaffirmed the church’s teaching that every man and woman should be accepted with love, including those with same-sex orientation.

He added that the Church is open to embracing homosexuals who are willing to seek the sacrament of reconciliation (confession) and live lives of perpetual chastity.

Speaking on behalf of the remaining members of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), the organization’s director of media relations Mary Ann Walsh had this to say:

The Church has always made it very clear that homosexuals are welcome. The problem is homosexual activity, which the pope can’t condone. Francis is saying that in a nicer way.

As leaders of the Church rush to stamp out any hope for change that gay groups and individuals might derive from Pope Francis’ words, there are certainly those who take the Pope’s remarks very seriously. Many LGBT groups have celebrated the pope’s stance, while conservative Catholics lament even the barest appearance of pro-gay tolerance and, in some extreme cases, call for an end to Francis’papacy and his excommunication from the Catholic Church.

It’s all overreaction, in both directions. The Pope is still a Catholic, and “practicing” homosexuals are still threatened with eternal damnation. Move along, there’s nothing to see here.

About Sara Lin Wilde

Sara Lin Wilde is a recovering Catholic (and cat-holic, for that matter - all typographical errors are the responsibility of her feline friends). She lives in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, where she is working on writing a novel that she really, really hopes can actually get published.

  • Michael Mock

    That’s been pretty much my reaction, too. Kinder words and shows of humility are just that: words and shows. The actions and the policies haven’t changed… and I rather doubt they will, until and unless a significant number of rank-and-file Catholics start putting on pressure by way of decreased tithing and attendance.

    Edited to add: Incidentally, I would love to be wrong about this.

    • Rajron

      You forget that the majority of Catholic women have used birth control – I don’t see the Vatican changing their official position because of this. So long as people continue to do what is necessary, then apologize for it to their local cult leader, the church has no reason to change.

      • Michael Mock

        @ Rajron – I hadn’t forgotten; that was why I specified “by way of decreased tithing and attendance.” I don’t honestly think that the upper hierarchy will listen to the “sensus fidelium” (the moral conclusions of the laity, basically) unless a non-trivial number of Catholics start withholding their tithes… or simply leaving the church.

    • Art_Vandelay

      Oh, I think you’re wrong. Just like they came around on sun-centered solar system, and an old earth, and the emancipation of slaves, and the liberation of women…they’ll probably be the last ones to come around to it.

      And then they’ll take credit for it. And then a bunch of sheep with short memories will praise them for it.

    • Stev84

      As they say in Game of Thrones: “words are wind”

  • Matt Potter

    Exactly. It’s a nicer way of telling people ‘Hey, I love you but my boss still wants you to be tortured for an eternity in Hell so…’

    • Rajron

      May as well say “hate murder, love the serial killer” – remember that “all sin is equal in God’s eyes”.

      But then, abrahamic religions use a very offensive definition of “love”… “love me and worship me or I’ll torture you” – talk about an abusive relationship.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

    What a perfect day for this picture and lets not forget this from yesterdays The Daily Show:

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-july-30-2013/a-new-pope?xrs=share_copy

    • Miss_Beara

      What a vile man this is.

  • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

    It would help their cause if they stopped wearing hats that make them look like giant penises. Right now, that hat is screaming, “That’s right, that guy is a big dick.”

  • Art_Vandelay
    • The Other Weirdo

      Judge Randa, a George H.W. Bush appointee, has a history of being reversed by higher courts in cases involving hot button social issues, so there is a good chance that his opinion will ultimately be reversed on appeal. In the meantime, however, Randa effectively places the church above the law — and leaves what could be hundreds of sexual abuse victims in the cold.

      Interesting tidbit.

  • http://skepticsplay.blogspot.com/ trivialknot
  • EmpiricalPierce

    “I knew all along I would be writing this piece. I had hoped it would come a day or two later.”

    Why? If it took a couple more days, would you have won the betting pool? ;)

  • trj

    The Church loves gays as long as they are not being gay in any way, repent their wickedness and ask for forgiveness.

    What an amazing display of tolerance and respect. Truly moving.

    • steve b

      Don’t forget that they need to throw money in the offering plate.

      • Free

        Gay people have a lot of money. Sure could use their “donations”. I guess the conviction of scripture outweighs the greed. I would say thats a positive.

  • fagnostic

    Meanwhile gaythiests are always welcome at godless gatherings. Seculesbians. Homo-heathens. Bi-blasphemers. There’s no bigots in the atheist camp, right?

    • blasphemous_kansan

      Not worth the time……nothing to see here.

    • Rajron

      Sadly there are, but there seem to be fewer than in any given religious group. Without dogma to support their bigotry, its far harder to justify it.

    • Carmelita Spats

      Bi-blasphemers? Seriously? Are those guys STILL around? I thought they went out with Astroglide, chipmunks and monotheism. Bi-blasphemy is SOOO 1,500 B.C. Hell, I’m a kinky Trinitarian TRI-blasphemer. To wit: the Bearded Guy, his Brat and their Pigeon make for a moist and sticky ménage a trois. If I include myself, a bottle of Crème de Menthe, Reynold’s Wrap and a Black & Dekker Dust Buster in the sexed-up-crown-of-thorns tryst, it quickly becomes a delightful ménage a quatre. Since I turn tricks, I always end up with the Holy Pigeon’s feathers in my mouth. Don’t ask. Blasphemy is a blast-for-me! Bigoted? NO!!! As a TRI-blasphemer, I actively encourage the sexy worship of a Trinitarian-incarnational-atoning-resurrecting-ascending-soon-to-be-returning-God who sacrificed Himself to Himself and enjoys a good nipple torquing. Praise! Next up: God *really* loves bunnies! Glory!

      • aaa

        Based off of this and some of your other posts, I think I love you.

      • Art_Vandelay

        Brilliant.

      • Antinomian

        Do you have an older, single, sister just like you?

      • baal

        I call myself a bi-blasphemer since it takes too long to explain what a pan-poly-perverter of the Holy Word (hint, it’s OHM) is to most people and they still don’t get it after the explanation

    • EvolutionKills

      Does hating ignorant and intolerant religiously indoctrinated sheep count as ‘bigotry’?

    • Matt D

      What the Hades are you talking about?

  • http://coolingtwilight.com/ Dan Wilkinson

    Well-said. What perhaps is heartening is that so many people, including many Catholics, want to believe that the Pope said something more significant about the church’s stance on homosexuality.

    • Kodie

      I don’t think it’s heartening at all. It’s great that people think this is a good step in the right direction, but it also makes the church smell like a rose. People already tend to reserve an undue respect to the church and tolerance of believers (at least where I live). They will not hear about these follow-ups.The narrative suggest we should never criticize people’s sacred beliefs. This effects a barrier between the church’s reality and valid criticism, by manipulating the public at large to be made to believe the church must be tolerated and atheists are just angry looking to punch believers in the face.

      My local news has let us know what the pope said a few days ago, they were really excited about this story and it was really radical, a feel-good teaser and all. I came home this evening to find out on an atheist blog what the cardinals are spinning this, but the teaser for the news said archaeologists have found pieces of Jesus’s cross. Their top story for the 11 o’clock news? I think this isn’t heartening at the least because the progressives continue to provide protection to the churches from valid criticism.

      • Antinomian

        Ah yes, the olde “lipstick on a pig” or “polishing a turd” angle.

        What is so disheartining is I want to believe that people with power can change for the better, and then, they just drag me back in to my cynicism.

      • http://coolingtwilight.com/ Dan Wilkinson

        Sure, it sounds better (far better) than what he actually meant. So people may very well get the general impression that the Catholic Church is far more progressive than it actually is. But my point is that people seem to want to get that impression. They want the church to be a progressive, welcoming, inclusive place. That desire for real change may very well obfuscate the real message the church teaches, but what I’m heartened by is that the desire is there at all. I think it’s an enormously good sign that so many Catholics want the church to change its stance on homosexuality, on birth control, on abortion, on women, etc.

  • Frank Key

    This Pope is acting out the old saying about sweet talking people in a manner that he can “tell people they are going to Hell but in a way that has them looking forward to the trip”.

  • LesterBallard

    Well, this always cheers me up a little . . . http://youtu.be/zBUYCaSTYf4

  • Nox

    Sometimes the catholic church appoints a figurehead who smiles and speaks in soft tones.

    This does not change anything about what the catholic church is.

  • randomfactor
    • Spuddie

      Ugh. The only upside to the story is the judge is overturned so often the Appeals Court probably has a short form for dealing with his decisions.

    • baal

      WTF!

      It’s OT but outrageous. I can only hope the last paragraph of the article is right.

  • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

    Pat Robertson has his spin doctors/handlers/ward orderlies, whatever you wish to call them, so that when he says something more psychotic or idiotic than the usual, they leap in to say, “Well, he didn’t actually mean to say that, he, uh, well, what he meant is this long, meandering, placating diversion I’m gonna say now.”

    Pope Francis seems to be surrounded by spin doctors/dogma police who leap in to say, “Well, no, he didn’t mean to say that atheists can go to heaven just for living kind, loving lives,” and “Well, no, he didn’t mean to say that gays just automatically go to heaven, and certainly not if they ever ewwww, uh, do it. I mean you know, ’cause God says ‘ewwww.’”

    The cardinals, not God elected the Pope, and they know it. The Pope knows it too. He was just as in on the power brokering and deal making as the rest of them. They’re not going to let him suddenly steer the Empire in a radically new direction.

    If any of the “kinder, gentler” ways of Pope Francis are genuine and not just P.R., (and I doubt it) I’m afraid he will eventually resemble Michael Corelone in the Godfather movies: A decent man reluctantly inherits the leadership of a ruthless organization steeped in evil and greed. But he doesn’t rule it, it rules him, and steadily it corrupts him until he’s even more ruthless than his predecessor.

    • Art_Vandelay

      Just by virtue of accepting a job where you are viewed as not only superior, and not only infallible, but the actual voice of the creator of a 950 trillion light-year universe…don’t you lose any right to be considered a decent man? I mean, you have to lack humility in a way that would be considered incomprehensible to us. His idea of helping people is waving his hand in front of their face to the shape of ancient Roman torture apparatus. He’s like a the world’s most narcissistic 6 year old.

  • SJH

    You are being misleading. The Pope is saying that we cannot judge them and therefor we do not know their final destination. All of the cardinals agree with him. There is nothing new here. Not is there anything intolerant.

    • trj

      More like the other way round. The clergy still want to damn the sinners, they just want to wash their hands of it.

      “Oh, if it was up to me I’d let you off, but it’s the big man upstairs who decides, so, you know… It’s really out of my hands. So sorry that you’re going to Hell.”

      Tolerance? No, just duplicitous cowardice.

      • Anna

        Definitely. They absolve themselves of responsibility by refusing to identify the damned. They don’t have a problem with the idea of damnation, though.

        • Stev84

          “It’s not me saying all this horrible stuff. My god says it.”

    • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

      I guess I didn’t get the memo.

      We have had 2,000 years of thousands of Catholic clerics from Popes to priests and every silked and gilded Bishop and Cardinal in between saying, “We have inside information directly from God that homosexuals are going to hell,” unambiguously, unmistakably, authoritatively. Then we’ve had two or three decades of “We have inside information directly from God that we must love homosexuals, and they’re going to hell,” just as clearly. Even more recently we’ve heard, “We have inside information directly from God that we must love homosexuals and they’re going to hell IF they ever actually have sex with each other.”

      Now are you saying that Pope Francis’ remark, “Who am I to judge?” means the Catholic Church is now officially agnositc about the final destination of gay people? No more inside information directly from God about this?

      I don’t think “Who am I to judge?” meant “I cannot judge because I cannot know.” I think it means, “I know their final destination with just as much certainty as the 265 Popes before me, but I will not be overtly judgmental against them while they’re still here.”

    • blasphemous_kansan

      You’re factually incorrect. From the mouth of the Pope:

      “If a gay person is a person of good will who seeks God, who am I to judge?”

      This is a conditional statement. The pontiff’s apparent humility is conditional on the subject being “of good will who seeks God”.

      The corollary being that if a gay person is not a person who is of good will or seeks God (whatever these fuzzy greeting card phrases really mean), then it’s business as usual. Then it’s back to the lack of fire with you!

    • Spuddie

      No just getting to the actual point the pope was making.

      Gays are still not to be treated with any degree of humanity, but it really won’t be our fault for that. Nudge nudge, wink wink.

      • georgeconstatine

        Right, we need to celebrate the gay desire to insert a penis into an anus, to squirt semen into a sewer.

        • Spuddie

          Because you enjoy it so much and want everyone to know!

  • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

    Can someone explain to me how, exactly, it is possible to “love the sinner but hate the sin” when the “sin” is an integral part of the person?

    • Miss_Beara

      “I love my sinning friend but s/he is still going to hell.”

      I don’t think they actually “love” the person. They pity and shame them, try and convert them to the way of celibacy with threats of hell added in.

    • Stev84

      The problem is their Orwellian definition of “love”. They think they can just pretend to love someone. Or say they love someone, but not doing so with their actions.

      And some Christers think they are expressing love by trying to save people from imaginary eternal torture.

      • Olive Markus

        I’ve never been able to have a Catholic define their version of Love or Respect. They tend to use those words to excuse everything they do and believe with no regard for what those words actually mean.

        • UWIR

          I suppose next you’ll claim that the KKK was not expressing love for black people by trying to get them to comply with God’s intended place for them in society? And that Jesse James was not expressing love for bankers, by helping them to remove the corruptive influence of money from their lives?

          • Olive Markus

            You’re right. I will. I’m intolerant of calling hateful intolerance Love. Does that make me a bigot? :P

        • georgeconstatine

          Why don’t you explain your version so we can all better understand the problem with versions that aren’t compatible with your own?

          • Olive Markus

            I have no reason to.

            I don’t use my versions of Love and Respect to oppress others.

      • georgeconstatine

        Haven’t met too many homosexuals who aren’t willing to abandon their “lovers” at the crucial moment –usually to obtain some younger person to butt-ram.

    • ShunDup

      Because you don’t need to buttfuck to be an integral homosexual. THAT is the sin we’re supposed to be against because buttfucking is not a natural way to conceive a child, neither is sticking a turkey baster of a man’s sperm into your partner’s vagina “natural”. We’re meant to populate the Earth, not kill babies through abortions or make turkey-baster babies.

      • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

        • PatrickG

          First: wmdkitty: best cat meme I’ve seen in a long time. :)

          But I’ll give ShunDup one thing: buttfucking is definitely an unnatural way to conceive a child.

          Think of the valving involved.

          • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

            Valving… *brain-breakage*

            • PatrickG

              You’re welcome. :)

          • Anna

            As Dan Savage recently joked on Bill Maher’s show, if God can do anything, he can certainly impregnate a man! It’s funny how a religion built around a highly unnatural impregnation has nothing but negative things to say about alternative conception.

      • Anna

        How are turkey-baster babies not populating the Earth? My brother and I are turkey-baster babies (well, technically, syringe babies) and we’re on Earth just like everyone else.

        It’s weird how Catholics claim to be so pro-life, but they’re not in favor of certain types of babies being born. For a religion that venerates motherhood, you’d think they’d be happy about women who embrace it.

        • EvolutionKills

          They are not ‘Pro-Life’, they are simply ‘Pro-Birth’.

          How many of them support and serve in the military?

          How many of them support the death penalty?

          How many of them oppose universal health care?

          How many of them support funding cuts for programs that help the poor and needy, like food stamps and WIC?

          ‘Pro-Life’? Hardly…

          • Intelligent Donkey

            No, they’re just “pro-soul”.

            They think that Yahweh creates a new soul each time a completely “normal” conception occurs. Turkey-basters apparently can’t create souls, so any resultant babies would be soul-less. Or perhaps satanic, I don’t know.

            But as soon as the baby’s born, life is just a bump in the road on the way to heaven. Death is the big pay-off, and should not be postponed.

            Of course, when taken to its logical extreme, that means that we could populate heaven through mass infanticide.

            • Anna

              I think they also believe that “original sin” is transmitted to the fetus through the parents having sex. So do turkey-baster babies not have original sin if our conception wasn’t the result of intercourse?

              • allein

                Well, turkey-baster babies necessarily start with masturbation, so I would think they’d get some sin in there that way.

                • Anna

                  Maybe so, though I was under the impression that there was something specific about the sex act that did it.

          • georgeconstatine

            Calm down. You’re upset because they don’t see inserting a penis into a rectum as the same thing as inserting a penis into a vagina.

            • EvolutionKills

              You’re right, catholic priests can’t have heterosexual sex with a consenting adult, but raping little kids is a-okay.

              That is not an adequate reason to calm down.

        • georgeconstatine

          Pretty dumb euphemism. The ‘turkey basting’ costs more than a car and is performed in lieu of finding someone who is ready to be adopted right now. It is a vanity thing.

          • Anna

            What on earth are you talking about? It’s clear you know nothing about this subject at all.

            Donor insemination doesn’t have to cost money. All that’s needed is some sperm and a syringe. If you have a known donor, the sperm is free. And sperm from sperm banks generally only costs a few hundred dollars. Women can self-inseminate at home, no doctors or fancy technology required.

            Private domestic and foreign adoptions cost thousands of dollars, far more than conceiving through donor insemination. If you adopt an older child through the foster care system, you may not have to pay much, but most people (straight and gay) who want to become parents prefer infants.

            But of course your real issue is shaming and stigmatizing women who choose to conceive children the “wrong” way. I’m sure you accept straight married couples who decide to have biological children, but you attack single women and lesbians for making the same choice. Why isn’t it “vanity” when straight couples decide to get pregnant, too?

      • EvolutionKills

        *sorry, double post*

        • Spuddie

          It was funny the second time too. No need to apologize. =)

        • baal

          I loved it both times.

      • EvolutionKills

        Because I can’t say it any better than Kevin Smith or his brother.

      • Intelligent Donkey

        “We’re meant to populate the Earth”

        We have. Isn’t it time for Yahweh to tell us “Jolly good show! Now here’s what I want you to do now …”?

      • Baby_Raptor

        WTF is an “integral homosexual”?

        Abortion does not kill babies. Quit lying. Or keep your willful ignorance to yourself, one of the two.

        And lastly, sex was never all about making offspring. If it was, then we’d be programmed to only have sex when fertile. So, if you really insist on keeping your views, please keep them to yourself and stop claiming that they’re actually the only right way. They aren’t.

      • Glasofruix

        Oh FSM, another guy obsessed with male anal sex…

      • Spuddie

        If you are spending all that time and thought about gay sex, just get out of the closet already. You are not fooling anyone.

      • baal

        “We’re meant to populate the Earth”
        At 7 billion of us, I wouldn’t mind if the population had a negative growth rate until we got down to 1 billion. Surely that’s enough people? 1/7th the pollution being generated each year would help a lot.

      • Matt D

        We’re a bit overcrowed, actually, but you can help that by never breeding. It’ll save yourself the grief of seeing your kids turn against you when they realize what a bigot you are.

  • Michael

    It’s like the pope is the good cop to the rest of the vatican’s bad cop.

    • EvolutionKills

      Yes, but who is Axe Cop?

      • SeekerLancer

        Bill Donohue

  • TopHatProfessor1014

    That’s like saying it’s okay to be a bird, but it isn’t okay to fly…

    • EvolutionKills

      They’d just argue that God ‘designed the bird’s wings to fly’, and that flight is part of God’s plans for birds.

      That’s when you bring up the Ostrich, Cassowary, Emu, Kiwi, Turkey, and any other flightless bird you can think of…

      • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

        Penguins, who have feathers even though they don’t fly and do swim.

      • TopHatProfessor1014

        Wouldn’t gay sexual activity also be part of God’s plan? If everything happens according to this all-powerful, all-knowing being’s plan than why should these people be hating on the gay people? Is that also part of God’s plan? If homosexuality is a sin, than why would God make it so that some of his creations are homosexual? You’re telling me that he’ll punish them, just because HE made them gay?

        Man, the writers of the Bible really wrote themselves into a corner when they said that God was omniscient and omnipotent. The just created a whole bunch of plot holes and inconsistencies with their main character!

        • EvolutionKills

          Yep, if ‘god’ created the universe and everything in it, then he also gets credit for…

          War, genocide, hate, cancer, holocaust, torture, HIV, polio, bubonic plague, Alzheimer, rape, murder, arson, lying, floods, tornadoes, masturbation, hurricanes, super novas, black holes, the eventual heat death of the universe, and homosexuality.

        • Christopher Borum

          God’s Plan is for you to have free will to choose to do exactly what he wants you to do. So you get to decide, but you had better decide correctly.

          • TopHatProfessor1014

            You just contradicted yourself there, friend. If “everything happens for a reason” and it’s all according to “God’s plan” then every action and decision that you make isn’t free will. You can’t have an omnipotent God that controls everything that happens in the Universe and free will at the same time.

            • Christopher Borum

              I forgot this part…

              /snark

              The entire theology is self-contradictory. Free will and God’s omniscience cannot co-exist.

              • TopHatProfessor1014

                I thought you were actually serious there. o_O

        • georgeconstatine

          Pretty dumb comment. You’d bitch about not having free will if you didn’t have it, and now you’re wondering why you’ve been given free will.

          • TopHatProfessor1014

            That’s a pretty dumb response. I’m not complaining about having freewill, I’m saying that God controlling everything and us also having freewill is one big contradiction. That’s just one reason why I’m an atheist.

      • allein

        Turkeys can fly. Not commercially-raised ones, because we’ve bred them to be so front-heavy, but wild turkeys can fly short distances. We had one on my college campus who used to hang out in a tree in front of the library.

  • Miss_Beara

    [Pope Francis] reaffirmed the teaching of the Catholic faith and other religions that homosexual genital relations are morally wrong.

    I threw up in my mouth a little.

    Edit: A lot.

    • indorri

      Was wondering if anyone else noticed that.

    • Stev84

      Don’t worry. They reduce straight relationships to genitals as well.

      • Anna

        So true.

      • UWIR

        I’m sure that if a Catholic were here, they would have a Sophisticated Argument for how it’s actually fornicators, homosexuals, and contraceptors who reduce sexual relations to genitals. Something about how if you’re not trying to make babies, it’s nothing but empty self-gratification.

    • EvolutionKills

      I know this would be terribly wrong to do, but I’m kinda past caring. I just want to take all the cardinals and the pope, strap them all into those viewing chairs in ‘Clockwork Orange’, and make them watch gay porn. Record all of the proceedings, and take note on which of them get boners. Then publish the findings for the world to see.

      Immoral? Yes. As bad as anything else in the Catholic Church’s sordid past? Not even close…

    • Hat Stealer

      Because the genitals are the most important part in a relationship!

    • UWIR

      So, is rimming okay?

  • Heidi McClure

    “Move alone, there’s nothing to see here.” Freudian typo?

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Hemant Mehta

      Typo! Fixed!

  • Cattleya1

    Utterly and totally clueless – and just plain mean. I know the place doesn’t exist, but Dante had so many places in the Inferno for Mr. Dolan. 700 years later, the catholic church is not one whit better.

  • Scott McGreal

    I checked out the conservative Catholic links above. Those who call for his excommunication call him the “pro-gay Pope” – are they insane?? The one who called for his dismissal responded to the Pope’s statement that “God welcomes everyone” by calling it “satanic”. Hmm, I wonder if this means that Satan is the one who loves everyone, no matter how “sinful” they are, and that God actually hates those who don’t follow his rules…

  • Tobias2772

    Since when do the subordinates interpret the words of the infallible voice of god on earth ? Don’t they understand the concept of chain of command ??

    • UWIR

      Yes, they do. They understand that one of the benefits of having subordinates is the ability to delegate assholery.

  • ShoeUnited

    This just in:
    Water is wet
    Fish swim
    More news at 11.

  • LoriF

    I would love it if the Pope would tell the Cardinals to Shut the F### UP.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Trust me, we know. You’re all hateful bigots, you’re proud of it, and you’re insisting that you’re not going to change.

    Nobody with any pattern recognition thought otherwise. At best, he got credit for some prettyful sounding words.

  • RobMcCune

    Pope says atheists could possibly go to heaven, Vatican says they most certainly will not.

    Pope says it’s not his place to judge homosexuals, Vatican says it most certainly is.

    I may not like this Pope, but I can certainly respect the way he trolls his followers.

  • Taz

    What a perfect illustration of how vile religion can be. These spiritual leaders felt the need to placate their flock – to reassure them. About what? The fact that numerous people who haven’t hurt them (or anybody as far as they know) will still be tortured for eternity, as promised.

    • Antinomian

      ” About what?” Perhaps it gives them the weirdest boners…?

  • atwas911

    I guess its only gay when the other person is over 18 huh?

    Dicking little kids in the candle closet.. Oh that’s fine.

    • Stev84

      It’s freedom of religion. A federal judge just ruled that the Catholic Church has a right to hide its money from people suing them. That’s just one step removed from saying that there is a constitutional right to rape children as long as you are a priest.

  • UWIR

    “He added that the Church is open to embracing homosexuals who are willing to seek the sacrament of reconciliation (confession) and live lives of perpetual chastity.”

    Celibacy, not chastity.

    “The Church has always made it very clear that homosexuals are welcome.”

    Bullshit. Even putting aside the issue of “you have to be celibate” not being very welcoming, there’s the whole “homosexuals are intrinsically disordered” stuff.

    • Anna

      No, I think they mean chastity. That includes not just sex, but also masturbation. All unmarried Catholics are supposed to refrain from ever doing anything about their sexual urges.

  • EvolutionKills

    I love the end of the Onion article that came out 2 days before this and basically ‘called it’.

    “According to an anonymous source close to the Vatican, the Pope is currently being yelled at by Church officials, who are telling him, “You don’t just go off script like that. Who the fuck do you think you are?” -The Onion

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/vatican-quickly-performs-damage-control-on-popes-t,33292/?ref=auto

  • wombat

    I don’t know if it’s just me, but there’s something about Catholic church outfits (vestments?) that just makes the wearer look creepy.

    • Pattrsn

      Kind of like seeing someone in a clown costume in the street.

      • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

        *twitch*

        Clowns…

    • baal

      I dunno. The black suit / white color thing is very dom daddy.

  • Pattrsn

    homosexual genital relations are morally wrong

    So kissing, spanking and dildos are ok. And people say that theology isn’t an academic discipline.

    • georgeconstatine

      Don’t know any gay people who don’t turn on their fellow gays when they’re at their weakest. This orientation is as Darwinian as they come.

      • Pattrsn

        Thanks George, it’s always good to hear the moronic ramblings of total fucking nutjobs.

  • Rationalist1

    The issue of how the Catholic and other conservative churches treat gays will be the downfall of those churches in the West. The majority of young people, gay or otherwise, will not put up with it. I’m not gay and I’m not young but it pleased me so to see how the millennials are not putting up with this prejudice and it makes me embarrassed to think of how my generation when we were that age despised gays. Yes, that was our society at the time, but these young people are helping to change society.

  • Dal Bryn

    It’s ok if one dude thinks another dude is attractive as long as they don’t touch each other’s penises. Makes perfect sense.

    • Spuddie

      Exceptions for altarboy/priest relationships remain in effect.

  • SeekerLancer

    These post-pope speech clarifications are the funnest thing about the new pope so far. The Catholic church really is a total mess.

    • BobaFuct

      I have to wonder if this is intentional….have the pope say some very public things that, to the casual listener, sound really nice. These things get lots of press coverage and make the Church look not terrible. Then guys like Dolan creep out of the woodwork a couple of days later and quietly explain what the pope really meant…these guys don’t get nearly as much press coverage, so most people don’t see the “clarification” and carry on with a positive view of the Church, and the Church gets to say that its position was consistent all along.

      • SeekerLancer

        I’ve considered the same thing. The pope’s message makes the church look more tolerant to the rest of the world but the clarifications from the other church leaders keeps the hardliners happy.

        • Anna

          I think that’s exactly it. The new Pope isn’t an idiot, and neither are the cardinals. They all know their church has a massive image problem. I think this “soft” presentation by Francis is simply a way to get people to think positive things about the church. I think it’s a lot more insidious because at least everyone could tell right away that the last Pope was evil. This new one hides all the ugliness under a shiny veneer, but the core of the religion is still rotten. And it’s working, too. People are getting taken in by it.

  • baal

    I was at a restaurant with some folks who were generally ‘nones’. We very nicely and politely agreed that current pope frank is much nicer and personable than former pope palpatine. I did mention to them, however, to watch the bishops and vatican PR reps 1-3 days after every semi-decent statement out of the pope. Like polical handlers, they walk back or ‘clarify’ what the pope means with some regularity.

  • EvolutionKills

    Can we just get on with it and replace the Pope again, this time with somebody who won’t take any shit from the Cardinals? I vote for Grumpy Cat…

    http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n26/DARK_GAME_ART/GrumpyCat_01.gif

  • allein

    “homosexual genital relations”

    Well, I gotta say, that’s one I haven’t heard before…

    • Anna

      So, would they be fine with a gay couple as long as all they did was kiss and cuddle? Somehow, I doubt it.

  • Michael Wilson

    “The Pope Still Thinks Sexually-Active Gay People Are Going to Hell.” Well, thank god I’m passive.

  • charles

    Telling a person to not be gay is like telling an African not to be black. It is an integral and unchangeable part of their nature.

    Whether it be based solely on genetics or sole on nurture (epigenetics) or a combination of both sexual orientation can not be changed.

    There are a few things proving this:

    1) There has been no confirmed cases of sexual orientation ever being changed. Sure “ex-gay” people are said to be cure but there is no evidence of that and conversion therapy is condemned by all reputable medical professionals.

    2) Being gay has no befits, as such there is no reason for people to choose to be gay. While people do occasionally do things against their best interest what person would actively choose to live a life where they would face discrimination everywhere.

    3) Homosexuality was an integral part of Greek and early Roman culture, so integral in fact that neither culture had words separating orientation such as homosexual or heterosexual. This would not have occurred without homosexuality being a normal facet of human existence.

    4) Finally homosexuality frequently occurs in hundreds of different species of mammals (of which humans are) indicating that it is a normal practice for mammals.

    These four points strong support the thesis that homosexuality is not a choice. The conclusion that can be draw from this assertion are simple.

    1) Since the “sin” of homosexuality is a fundamental, unalterable, part of the “sinner” it is impossible to hate one or the other without hating both.

    2) Whether homosexuality is morally right or wrong, the Catholic Church will never be a supportive place for homosexuals, their families, or their friends.

    3) If there is a God, then he created homosexuals or created ways for homosexual tendencies to involuntarily and inexorably form in a person.


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