Christian Pastor: My Sons Will Be Taught to Be Independent; My Daughters Will Be Taught *Not* to Be Independent

I was going to skip this, but Pastor Steven Anderson of the Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona was talking about how all sins are not equal and this was the screengrab:

How could I resist that?!

Most of it was uneventful, but toward the end, Anderson spoke about virginity and fornication… and we got this gem at the 45:43 mark:

My children are gonna be taught to not commit fornication [before marriage] and that it is not acceptable and that it is a very major sin and that there will be very major consequences if they commit it.

Now, I’m gonna teach that unto my sons because I think it’s so important that they remain pure and that they keep their virginity until they get married…

I say I’ll teach that unto my sons and you say, well, aren’t you gonna teach that to your daughters? I’m gonna tell you this: It’s not gonna be humanly possible for anyone to commit fornication with my daughters. [Laughter] And you know what? You’re laughing but I’m not kidding… You say, what about when they go get a job? Well, they’re not going to get a job. Why would my daughters go get a job? What do they need a job for? You know what, I’m gonna pay for them, I’m gonna pay their bills. And you know what? When I’m done paying for them, their husband’s gonna pay for them. And I hope that he doesn’t fail in his responsibility to provide and send them off to work or something, but you know what, at that point, it’s none of my business. At that point, it’s not my responsibility. But you know what? When I pass off my daughters unto their husband, I’m gonna be able to guarantee that they’re a virgin because I’m gonna make it to where it’s not even humanly possible. Because I’m not gonna have them out gallivanting around town. I’m not gonna have them going off to work, and going out with all these people…

And you say, what if you don’t like the guy they’re dating? They’re not gonna be dating a guy that I don’t like. A guy that I don’t like is gonna get his face punched in. [Laughter]

And you say, well why the double standard? Um, ’cause everything in the Bible’s a double standard?! ‘Cause I’m not a feminist?! ‘Cause men and women are different? ‘Cause my sons are gonna be taught to be independent. My daughters are gonna be taught not to be independent. [Fake crying noises] My sons are gonna be taught to go out and work hard and make a living! My daughters are gonna be taught to be a homemaker, okay? You don’t like that? Well, whatever, that’s what the Bible teaches…

A real winner, this guy. I don’t even have kids and I know he’s completely naïve to think he’ll really have this much control over his children…

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • Susana Paço

    this man is nothing but a rat. May one strong women punch him right in the testicles for enslaving his daughters. Men like this should be forbid to reproduce, for the sake of humanity.

    • Spuddie

      Even if it does not render him unable to reproduce, it is worth the effort just to send the message.

      • baal

        Consentual CBT is ok; non-consentual is not.

    • baal

      No. Violence doesn’t help. The history of allowing violence and sterilization is that minorities and women are disproportionately impacted.

      • Hat Stealer

        Can’t we just let violence help in this one teensy-weensy case? Just this once?

      • cipher

        I’ll go farther. We need mandatory testing of intelligence, sanity and developmental level as a prerequisite for voting and reproduction.

        • Madison Blane

          I know it violates every freedom I stand for but dammit I’ve been a pediatric nurse for way too long and I’ve seen the consequences of ignorant, emotionally-immature, religiously-off-the-wall, and less-than-sane people reproducing and I’m inclined to agree here! (Of course I think heavily funding public education, especially in the sciences, and free college education could fix a LOT of that).

          • Spazticus

            In regards to education, this guy homeschools his kids (well, he has his wife do it,) encourages all his parishioners to do the same, and refers to any form of higher education as government brainwashing. These kids may be beyond hope, though I would very much like to be wrong about that.

            • carla

              wonder how he expects those sons to have the high paying jobs so their wives don’t have to work, without the college education! oh, and if they get an education, they may disagree with daddy-o–oops!

              • RoycePashtun

                carla: “wonder how he expects those sons to have the high paying jobs so their wives don’t have to work, without the college education!”
                Easy.
                They can become preachers and live off the tithes and offerings of the church members.

            • Elisabeth M

              Not beyond hope. Read Stolen Innocence. It’s a real ride, but it’s redemptive and it shows that hope is still possible, even in extremely fundamentalist settings.

        • Guest

          I think people who suggest things like this should be the first to be sterilised. See how you like it. These are actul human beings you’re talking about, for fucks sake. Have some respect.

        • Hat Stealer

          That’s insane. And wrong.

    • Frank Key

      According to some recently published reports, there are some tropical fish that will take care of the testicle thing without the need for women to resort to violence.

  • Mario Strada

    May his daughters be strong, independent atheist women, may his sons be (at least one) gay and merry. But above all, may all of them learn to be strong and independent people once they flee the hell of this household.

    • Susana Paço

      May all his sons and daughters be strong enough to departure from this sicken father. children don’t deserve such mental torture

    • Regina Carol Moore

      You spelled “marry” wrong. ;)

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        Well played, Clerk. Well played.

    • Suzie

      He’s not wearing a wedding ring. May he not be able to find a woman willing to marry him!

      • http://www.skeptimusprime.com/ Dylan Walker (Skeptimus Prime)

        Unfortunately he is already married, his wife runs a blog, she writes about crazy conspiricary theories.

        • allein

          Yeah, “her” blog that has his name in the url.
          /rolls eyes

          • http://www.skeptimusprime.com/ Dylan Walker (Skeptimus Prime)

            Yeah, truth be told I’m surprised he even lets her have a blog.

      • onamission5

        My stepdad doesn’t wear one either, because he doesn’t belong to his wife, his wife belongs to him. And also because jewelry isn’t manly.

        (the preceding views do not represent the person who just wrote them, to be clear.)

    • sue

      ..or something much much worse for idiots like this man….gay & feminists…may his sons be gay and his daughters feminists

      • Know

        may his sons and daughters be gay!!! Then he will kick them out and they can be happy!

    • Know

      This guy sounds like he is an outcast of the morman sect in north arizona. That is hostage and slavery and will back fire on him. I hope he is sterile. I live in Arizona, I would love to go to this church and stand up and debate him but I would be afraid of being killed.

  • Gus Snarp

    I expect that he’s in for a very rude awakening. I only hope that his children are able to escape him and that he doesn’t respond to their inevitable rebellion with violence and locks.

  • Sue Blue

    Please….if there is a god or any kind of karma in this world, make this idiot sterile. If he already has kids, then may they all leave home ASAP and get as far away as possible from their unfortunate genetic contributor.

  • http://star-www.st-and.ac.uk/~pr33/ Paul Rimmer

    This style of raising daughters has worked great for the Westboro Baptist Church. Look at how Megan and Grace Phelps-Roper have grown up!

  • cipher

    He’s a raving lunatic and his followers are mindless sycophants. Nothing new here.

  • Regina Carol Moore

    Sounds like Sharia Law to me.

  • OverlappingMagisteria

    Two questions Hemant:

    1. How big of an audience does this guy have?

    2. How much of his audience depends on this website?

    • WallofSleep

      I think the better question is why hasn’t anyone taken this guy’s videos and added a laugh track to them?

      • The Other Weirdo

        Because there is no need to beat a dead moronic horse to death, it’s already been killed with death.

    • onamission5

      Problem is, it’s not just this guy. There are vast swaths of the Christian community who think like he does and live by the bassackward ideas he espouses, there are thousands of families being damaged right now at this very moment by attitudes like his. It just so happens to be this particular guy who is presently being loud in public where other people can hear him, which makes him ripe for the mocking.

      ETA:
      Dismissing this pastor and all the other pastors like him as fringe players allows the harm they do to continue and grow behind the scenes, away from prying eyes. Addressing it brings the full extent of their awfulness into the light where it can be dealt with and opposed. It raises awareness and gives those who manage to escape the clutches of these churches and families a chance to be believed when they tell their stories. That’s a chance a lot of them didn’t necessarily get before.

    • Carmelita Spats

      I’m not sure how big his audience is but I heard the exact same Rio de Caca gushing out of James Dobson’s mouth back in the 90′s. Dobson was the head of Focus on the Family and his co-host on the radio, Mike Trout, dedicated an entire show on how he taught his 3 daughters to be dependent on men. A month after the show aired, Mike Trout was caught cheating on his wife with another Focus on the Family employee. Dobson fired Trout after 19 years of working together. I was hoping for a follow-up show about how to teach your daughters to be dependent when you cheat on their mother. This guy is just rehashing the sad, lost and more-than-a-little-unhinged world of Fundamngelical family values.

      • cipher

        Yes, James Dobson – the man who beat his dachshund with a belt because it wouldn’t sleep where he wanted it to, and felt it necessary to break its “rebellious spirit” and force it to submit to his “Godly authority”. This is the same guy who’s written the go-to books on child rearing in the fundie parallel universe.

        These people should not be allowed to reproduce.

    • allein

      Somebody posted a picture in another thread a while back; his church appears to be one of those strip-mall-store-front-type churches so not that big. I wonder if he has a bigger internet audience and how many of those people are watching for the entertainment value like us (though I must say, I’m glad Hemant transcribes the relevant bits because I managed to watch about 30 seconds of the first video he posted and that was more than enough).

      • Know

        My daughter goes to a strip-mall-store-front type church in Tempe, AZ but its not this church. She has stopped communicating with me and my husband because we are not in agreement with her spending so much time at church (4 to 5 days a week for 4 to 5 hours a day) (also she has not job but doesn’t have time to work). I guess she is looking for a husband to be dependant on. It makes me sick, she was raised to work hard and be proud of herself, now she “find her joy in jesus” and prases god for all good things

  • Nenona

    But…but what about all the dudes I know who would like their bills paid, do they not get that, ever? Is it just work from cradle to the grave for his sons?
    I MUST KNOW.

    Seriously the fact that people place so much importance on virginity always creeps me out. It’s why I hardly associate with christians anymore, because I’ve met so many guys who are young, and stupid, and “want a virgin girlfriend” but aren’t virgins themselves–and nobody cares that the guys aren’t virgins, just the women. Guys always get a blind eye turned towards the “unchristian” behavior in these groups.

    And yeah, my guy friends immediately said “what about my bills? I’ve got student loans to be paid!” and “I’d like a husband to provide for me.”

  • C Peterson

    The guy has a serious case of fornication-on-the-brain.

    • wombat

      It’s a common affliction of many religious people.

  • KMR

    OMFG! What about if his son-in-laws by some off chance die? Where does that leave his uneducated never taught to think for themselves daughters? Is he making a good enough salary as a horrible pastor to take them all in, support them and his possible grandchildren (which of course there will be slews because what else will his daughters be able to do but reproduce like rabbits)?

    • Nenona

      I wondered about that as well. How does his congregation think, knowing that if he has 10 really ugly daughters they will have to support all of them until the pastor can marry them off.

    • Beth

      Duh! Jesus will find another husband for her and her litter of kids.

      He has a second job at a security firm. His wife has a blog and talks about how hard her husband works to support their growing family. I guess Jesus don’t pay pastors too well if they need second jobs.

      • KMR

        Actually pastors are traditionally paid shit unless you’ve got a big church. There the perks are pretty fantastic but most people will never be good enough to get a large church. This guy definitely won’t. Luckily most Christians truly do believe in educating their daughters and letting them out of the house unsupervised. He wouldn’t be a pastor they would want. He shouldn’t be feared as influential but my gosh do I feel for his children.

      • Madison Blane

        How can you be a pastor AND work at a security firm? I mean, either you believe in God’s protection or you don’t! Talk about a hypocrite!!

        • Know

          I laughted so hard, I love this, it made my day!!! THANKS

  • Cassiopeia

    I hope all of his children turn 18, say ‘fuck you dad’ and leave until he has regained some measure of sanity. Which may be never.

    In which case I hope he never sees his grandchildren.

    I hope his daughters marry men (or women) he considers wildly inappropriate. I hope the men (or women) can punch better than he can. I hope they want to have careers, have relationships, have sex, get to know the real world.

    I hope his sons marry women (or men) he equally finds wildly inappropriate. I hope they learn that women are actual people rather than stepford-smiling-automatons. I hope they learn that the real world isn’t half so evil as he’d like them to believe.

    • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

      I can only hope that they make decisions about their lives based on their own situation, desires and abilities and not the absurd desires of their troglodyte parents.

  • Guest

    “When I pass off my daughters unto their husband.” Ah, the simplicities, of polygamy…

  • Eric R. Albright

    “When I pass off my daughters unto their husband.” Ah, the simplicities of polygamy…

    • WallofSleep

      Nice catch.

  • CodeMonkeys

    I hope his kids are defiant in the face of stupidity. What the hell happens if you have a divorce when he doesn’t have the money to support them after said split, or isn’t even ALIVE? It makes you wonder what kind of education he’s even going to let them have in the 18 years he controls them legally to potentially prevent them from having their own jobs. They’ll let anyone breed these days…

    • The Other Weirdo

      What do they need with education? If they aren’t expected to get a job, they can just spend their lives popping out babies and cooking dinner and cleaning and serving. You can learn that shit in like, a day.

  • Anon

    It’s fun to stay at the Y-M-C-A

  • WallofSleep

    “When I pass off my daughters unto their husband, I’m gonna be able to
    guarantee that they’re a virgin because I’m gonna make it to where it’s
    not even humanly possible.”

    And a million net-lurking teenagers all across the globe just uttered the phrase “Challenge accepted”.

    • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

      I wonder how many fundies like this actually think their children are virgins when they aren’t. Years ago in my church the parents had no clue, and I can’t imagine that’s not still true.

      • viaten

        The mentality that prevents them from wanting to know what the Bible really says is probably the same mentality that prevents them from wanting to know what their kids are up to. If they can convince themselves “all is good”, that’s good enough.

      • Snooze

        Look up “saddlebacking” ;0)

    • Smith

      That’s fine as long as the daughters consent to it too, but I can’t help thinking that referring to them as a challenge is dehumanising.

  • Mel

    What a medieval, antediluvian, moronic, deplorable excuse for a father and human being. Being religious is one thing, but denying your female offspring basic rights like higher education and the ability to work is abuse. I bet not ONE person in that congregation contradicted him on this point.

  • Jabberwock

    The only question is: will each of his daughters get pregnant with the first guy each of them runs off?

    • baal

      Unless they get an STI first.

  • WallofSleep

    this is a prime example of why Firma is a christaphobe. Other religions especially in Hinduism preach sexual purity.

    /check last op

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      Extra upvotes in spirit for the misattribution.

  • The Other Weirdo

    The real question is, will he stone his daughters with stones to death if they don’t turn out to be virgins on their wedding night, after all? If not, he’s nothing a poseur, and not even a very good one. These freaks are beginning to get on my nerves.

    • Susan Carey

      How would he even know if they were “intact” or not?

      • DarkSeren

        He would be waiting outside there bedroom, to take a look at there sheets after!!

        • judyt00

          their!!!

        • Cassiopeia

          I bet he fucking believes in that ‘all virgins bleed on their wedding night’ bullshit too.

      • The Other Weirdo

        The Biblical way is for the groom to show the bloody sheets on the following morning. That’s gross on so many levels, but as we learnt on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, “Note to self, religion: freaky.”

  • Tainda

    “I’m gonna be able to guarantee that they’re a virgin because I’m gonna make to where it’s not even humanly possible”

    It scares me what he could mean by this…

  • tsara

    ~49 minutes: I really hope there are no male victims of rape in his church.

  • Barry Mahfood

    This guy’s forgotten what his own book says: Pride goeth before the fall.” His daughters, if he has any, will be more likely to be promiscuous than if he were just a typical dad, rather than a bloviating asshole.

    • middleroad

      Up vote for using bloviating in a sentence with correct usage.

  • Gus Snarp

    Is he capable of doing a sermon about something other than what a sexist pig he is, or are those just the most enraging ones?

  • Beth

    Good luck with that Steven. Kids (or young adults) find a way.

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      It makes me smile that you’re referencing a line from Jurassic Park that is specifically about the dinosaurs managing to reproduce despite their handlers having supposedly made it impossible.

  • Philbert

    It’s fun to stay at the

    Y
    M
    C
    A

  • eric

    I don’t even have kids and I know he’s completely naïve to think he’ll really have this much control over his children

    I HOPE he’s that naive. I hope it’s just pre-kid bluster and idealistic visions of child-rearing. Because the other, much rarer, possibility is that he’s abusive enough to go out and buy chains, locks for closets, and literally keep his girl children prisoners.
    Its a very sad state of affairs when the very best that can be said about someone’s beliefs is “I hope you’re kidding.”

    • Anna

      He actually already has seven children. And this movement that he’s part of believes in complete regulation of children and teenagers. They really do exert this level of control, especially over girls. They don’t go to school. They don’t socialize without supervision. They don’t go out in public alone. They must always have a chaperone. The infamous Duggar family (also Quiverfull) follows this model to the letter.

      • wombat

        It scares me that when he says it won’t be humanly possible for them to not be virgins, he might actually be right. Those girls are so sequestered that they might not actually alone with anyone not family until they marry.

        And then came a worse thought. Incest. I . . . just . . . I hope not.

  • rtanen

    At least he’s got one thing right… ” everything in the Bible’s a double standard!”

    • kpax2012

      Yeah, he’s just teaching what is in the bible. No surprise there.

  • LesterBallard

    Don’t surprise me none.

  • Charles Chambers

    He sounds like a cult leader. I’m glad you post these videos because Christianity needs to be shown in its entirety, not just the progressive churches.

  • CommentMaker

    The examples used by Atheist to verify their point that there is no God is not very Scientific here. Using bad examples is easy. There is no reason or proof that this pastor is providing accurate information that would allow you to condemn his statements. I must agree, I would not listen to what he gleans from the Bible. I suggest that you find better examples to argue with.

    • Anna

      This article has nothing to do with the existence (or lack thereof) of deities. Anderson’s antics are irrelevant to that question. No one here thinks that your god is or isn’t real because of what Anderson says.

      • CommentMaker

        If the title didn’t have “Christian Pastor” and this was not an atheist blog I might have come to a different conclusion. If the title said “Atheist” I would agree with you. Finding bad examples of Christianity and condemning them only supports your unbelief. I say find a way to scientifically prove this Christian Pastor wrong and use that. Show some reasoning and proof instead of emotional hate. Isn’t that what atheist live for? He might be right. I do know he is not right, but I would have to use scripture and a few good examples to prove it to you.

        • C.L. Honeycutt

          If the title didn’t have “Christian Pastor” and this was not an atheist
          blog I might have come to a different conclusion. If the title said
          “Atheist” I would agree with you.

          This is an exceptionally poor defense that displays confirmation bias, poor reading comprehension, and a sweeping judgment based on a sample size of one. You wanted a target and rationalized after the fact. If you’d bothered to read more of the main page, you’d have noticed articles directly contradicting your claim.

          There’s no “emotional hate” here for Christians, only contempt for this one abusive Christian and an effort to expose him. You’re making up things that you want to be true.

          Your Bible justifies his beliefs exactly as much as it does yours. Your beliefs are just better tempered by secular Enlightenment values and empathy, and you emphasize the parts of the text that align with those values.

          If you aren’t aware that a typical theme among Christians is that atheists lack morality because they lack religion, and that said idea needs to be combatted, including by example and counterexample, you really need to read a lot more. Hell, the newest post on this site is about that very thing.

          Have you stopped to consider that you’re walking into a group of people who have their own conversational history going, their own in-jokes, references and jargon, who have discussed this issue before? That you’ve
          missed MORE than 99% of the conversation and yet are declaring that you have an insightful criticism of the people involved? No? Odd. Let me it put it this way: You are walking up to your co-workers just as
          one finishes telling a funny anecdote, and, with your only knowledge of the anecdote being the closing words “…of course we ended up in the hospital after that,” you are declaring that the story wasn’t funny.
          Please give that some thought.

          • CommentMaker

            Mr. Honeycutt,

            You need to read some of the comments here. They are produced from the reading of this post.

            I have no argument with what you believe in, I would rather read some comments that had proof or scientific evidence that this man is wrong. You certainly didn’t provide any. You just did your best to condemn. Now, give me the best you have to prove this man wrong!

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              Reread the last paragraph especially, and then try again.

              I have no argument with what you believe in

              Non sequitur, because my beliefs are irrelevant to the point. You’re either trying to change the subject or are again displaying a lack of reading comprehension in your haste to feed your bias.

              I would rather read some comments that had proof or scientific evidence that this man is wrong.

              It’s not a scientific issue. You either don’t know what that word means, or you are being disingenuous. My money is on the latter. I believe you’re intentionally trying to set up a no-win situation, having seen it many times before. You aren’t qualified to fool anyone here with word games.

              You just did your best to condemn.

              You’re projecting, as that was your entire reason for commenting in the first place. Many of us are highly skilled at analyzing words and patterns. Feel free to fool yourself, but be aware that you aren’t fooling anyone else.

              In addition to the last paragraph, please Google “Dunning-Kruger Effect” and consider how it applies to you. It will help with understanding why you aren’t going to have the effect that you assume you will.

              • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

                I think he read Sye Ten Bruggencate’s book “How to Win Arguments (and lose credibility) with Circular Reasoning.”

              • CommentMaker

                You’re too analytical with a scoop of paranoia on top. I said, proof “OR” scientific evidence and you picked the one that obviously didn’t fit to make an issue of. If you don’t want to give me proof or some kind of answer, then fine. Have a good evening.

            • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

              Could you provide us with a sound and valid argument as to why it is necessary for us to make a value judgement as to whether this individuals opinions are right or wrong?

              • CommentMaker

                TBJ,

                You answer my request with a question. No one here seems to have a real answer. I don’t agree with the man. I have said that already. I am simply asking for your proof and evidence of why you think he is wrong.

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

                  And I am simply asking for more information as to why you think it is necessary for us to make this judgement. You are making a claim that we lack an opinion as to whether his actions and behaviours are wrong, except everyone here has expressed their opinion. So then why is it so important to you, for us, to explain our position? Why is this necessary?

                • CommentMaker

                  TBJ,

                  Because every discussion I have had with atheist on any subject ends at the crossroads of science and reasoning, not opinion. I know why he is wrong. I want to understand how atheist conclude that this pastor’s behavior is wrong. I am not going to condemn you for your answer.

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

                  Here I’ll humor you. This addition: In my opinion this individual would abuse his position of power to abuse his daughters. Though he may not hit every point at 100% you addition: it would be hard to deny that his actions and message reflect many of the points. So in my opinion I believe he displays many of the character traits of an abuser and by this I feel he is wrong.

                  edit: This is not a science document but given enough time I’m pretty certain I could find peer reviewed social studies that validate the information on this website. I do believe though that a person who is an abuser as described would most likely refute and deny this information, abusive individuals tend to support each other’s irrational behaviours. end edit

                  (will edit after post to manipulate formatting)

                  Characteristics of Abusers

                  http://www.ilrctbay.com/upload/custom/abuse/content/abusers.htm

                  Warning signs of potential violence: Abuser pacing the floor, Clenching/unclenching fists, Facial expression (glaring), Shouting/yelling. Pretty obvious in the video.

                  It’s not gonna be humanly possible for anyone to commit fornication with my daughters.

                  May have unrealistic expectations.

                  May hold rigid stereotypical views of the roles of men and women.

                  Are very controlling of others. Controlling behaviours often grow to the point where victims are not allowed to make personal decisions.

                  Well, they’re not going to get a job. Why would my daughters go get a job? What do they need a job for?

                  Prevents or discourages you from seeing friends or family, or going to work or school.

                  I’m gonna pay for them, I’m gonna pay their bills.

                  Controls all the money you spend.

                  They’re not gonna be dating a guy that I don’t like. A guy that I don’t like is gonna get his face punched in.

                  May think it is okay to solve conflicts with violence.

                • CommentMaker

                  All good valid points. Allow me to add to your list. Controllers are driven by their own fears. This pastor may not even have any children at this time. He looks pretty young. He is idealistic and thinks persuasion and power will work on human beings. He has already lost the battle if he doesn’t mature. Besides, his children will take him down a notch or two.

                  The Bible says, “Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it.” Proverbs 22:6. That is a great principle of raising children. The emphasis is not on “should go” like most people think, it is on the “he” (or she if one prefers). As a mother and father watch their child grow from infancy they see their behavior and personality develop. They begin to know their child like none other. That is our first responsibility as parents. Guiding a child based upon who “they” are and not according to some rubber stamped format is the way to raise up a well developed child that will bring you great joy. It is a little more complex than that but hopefully you get the idea.

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

                  Well I agree with the idea of bringing them up how “they” are. To me that seems the most humanistic approach, by supporting their freedom of expression and goals. I think people should worry less about their child’s future and just provide them with the freedom to be, well, carefree.
                  This why I believe religion should be taught later in the life of the child, sure allow for some bible school and Sunday service but forcing a child into strict indoctrination and possibly worse making threats of eternal damnation is harmful and stifles creativity.

                  I can only imagine that it took a lot of freedom, to have a lot of creativity, to make an entire universe, out of the very emotion, that allowed the creative freedom to flourish, in the first place. Why would someone purposely inhibit their children’s gawd given creativity?

                • CommentMaker

                  Somehow, in the child’s 12th year of existence +/- there comes a change. Of course, I have given my children the things I believe and hope they continue to believe in. Bottom line, they will be stronger and confident in who they are no matter what they believe. I think the world will be a better place to live if we nurture our children the way “they” should go. Amen.

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

                  there is a surgery available to stop the progression into puberty but it is permanent and used for very special cases something about severing the pituitary gland i think

                • allein

                  He has seven children who are homeschooled by his wife (who he claims in another video to carry across the house and back every morning just to show her who’s in charge). He most certainly believes in raising his children in a particular mold, and is not concerned with who “they” are as individual people.

                • CommentMaker

                  allein,

                  You are right. I went to the churches website and found out most of what you said. You didn’t comment on the Biblical principle I mentioned. Did you miss that?

                • allein

                  What, the “train up a child” thing? Yes, I did. He’s not interested in teaching/allowing his children to be who they really are. He’s interested in teaching them what his outdated religious view says they should be (which, frankly, is probably more in line with what whoever wrote that line had in mind). I think that is the worst way to raise a child.

                • CommentMaker

                  allein,

                  It is unfortunate that you have similar ways of processing information as the pastor. “Think” and “probably” are used when we are unsure about something. The person who wrote that line put the emphasis on “he” not “should go”. That pastor is not raising his children the right way and will find out too late that he has made a big mistake. The Biblical principle is a good principle on raising your children. It takes a wise man or woman to recognize it.

                • allein

                  How exactly do you determine what the emphasis is supposed to be? And what makes you think you are the one who is correct? Because that’s all it is: what I think, or what you think, or what Steven Anderson thinks. You both read the same words and come away with different interpretations. I might like one interpretation better than the other, but there is no objective way to determine who is “correct” (by which I mean in accordance with what the Biblical writer meant by it, 2000+ years ago). All we have are “think” and “probably.” Because everyone thinks something different. However, we can look at social science and see what the effects are in the real world. I think that Pastor Anderson’s approach to child-rearing is harmful and he is doing his children (both daughters and sons) no favors. Clearly, he (and a lot of other fundamentalist Christians in the world) would disagree with me.

                  Personally, I don’t really care what the Bible says; it has no relevance to my life (apart from the effect that people who believe it have on me when they act on that belief, which is a different issue). That some people can take good things from it is all well and good; other people take decidedly bad things from it, but they all think they are correct.

                  It is unfortunate that you have similar ways of processing information as the pastor.

                  Really not sure what you mean by this one.

                • Goape

                  Wait, are you trying to say that somehow atheists aren’t allowed to have opinions? Or, are you evasively trying to imply that tired old trope that morality can only come from god?

                • CommentMaker

                  Goape,

                  I certainly have no authority to say how anyone should think or believe. I wouldn’t if I could. I am simply asking to base your opinions on some facts found in either “science” or “reasoning”. That seems to be the land of Narnia that atheist head for when discussing other topics such as creation, God or Evolution.

                  Morality? Where did it come from? I think it came from God. Where do you think it came from? Show the process and who started it. What atheistic society has better morals than the US?

                • Goape

                  Why did you put quotation marks around the words science and reasoning? And do you really think of science and reasoning as a fantasy world?

                  That atheists tend to employ critical thinking or scientific analyses more frequently and with better success than theists doesn’t mean that atheists are somehow forbidden from simply stating their opinion. If someone is acting rude, atheists are free to call that person out.

                  Morality is a dynamic cultural system that defines what is good. (It is logical and obvious that both society and individuals would benefit from knowing what is good.) It is the product of millennia of highly thoughtful and increasingly educated social beings. I think it requires resolute ignorance to believe that morality came from a god.

                  The USA is a secular nation (something to be proud of), but is decidedly not a society of atheists (unfortunately). (Not sure what the USA has to do with anything here.)

                • CommentMaker

                  Goape,

                  The reason for the quotations is due to the emphasis that is always placed on these two words in a religious/atheist discussion. Atheist want to talk about religion but want to use only these words as part of the rules of engagement. If that is the case, there is no need for debate. It is oil and water to the discussion. It is the emptiness of only reason/logic/science and faith/belief/trust. Both groups are empty without the other.

                  Do you think morality is corrupted by highly educated people that add to it the thought that there are no absolutes? That one thought has done more harm than good, morally speaking.

                • Goape

                  “Atheist want to talk about religion but want to use only these words as part of the rules of engagement.” I have to admit that I’m getting a bit frustrated; it seems that you aren’t reading my posts.

                  For the most part, you’re just making dramatic assertions that exemplify your own views. You claim reason and faith to be empty without each other—I really don’t even know what that means. Then you claim that our premises are immiscible to the point of dismissal; this both belittles the very idea of conversation and seems to contradict your previous statement that faith needs reason to not be empty. I guess I’ll require a little more cogency from you before I can address these issues.

                  Morality has been advanced by highly educated individuals and an increasingly educated society—it has done this despite the moral roadblock of religion. That is why we no longer think that slavery, rape, murder and discrimination are acceptable (like society did when men wrote the bible). Your last sentence is yet another untenable assertion.

        • Anna

          You have a fundamental misunderstanding of atheism. The existence of Steven Anderson and his “bad example of Christianity” do not support our unbelief.

          We already do not believe in your deity, and we point to people like Anderson to show others what belief in an immoral religion can do to people. The fact that certain religions are immoral has nothing to do with their veracity, and this post could just as easily have been about a leader in any other religion.

          • CommentMaker

            Ok, fine. Christianity has many, many, many false teachers and preachers. They fall in the category of “hypocrites” (play actors). This means that they are fake. They do not represent Christianity in any form. The problem is, all someone has to say is that they are a Christian and, then, do horrible things and it seems everyone condemns Christianity for these people’s lie. The probability of them being a representative of Christ is little to none. They have no faith, they are acting. You have to have as much faith as I do that there is a God to believe that hypocrites are Christian.

            • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

              Christianity also seems to lack any True Scotsmen.

              • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

                No, it’s got plenty of True Scotsman. The second Christians use that fallacy to denounce a False Scotsman, they are insinuating that they themselves are the True Scotsmen.

            • middleroad

              That is because not many people argue from a truly logical stance. However, there are some both atheist, Christian, and otherwise that do. Making the assumption that because one person in a group has fallacies in their arguments does not mean everyone in the whole group does. It is the same assumption that a bad Christian represents all Christians. Furthermore, there is no set definition of a “true Christian” or a “false Christian”. I am sure that there are many fundamentalist Christians that would label you a “false Christian” or worse. That being said, I do agree that the media has a tendency to hold up a single example to represent a group in order to increase the sensationalism of a topic. I personally wish that we would emphasize critical thinking and logic far more in public education. It lacks IMHO.

            • Anna

              It doesn’t matter if you think Anderson is lying or not. Anderson is not the reason we “condemn Christianity.” There are many other intellectual and moral reasons to oppose your religion.

            • DavidMHart

              The problem is not that he is a representative of your flavour of Christianity, it’s that he is a representative of his flavour of Christianity. You do not get to decide unilaterally who is a real Christian any more than he does. The world is full of groups of Christians many of which sincerely believe that they are the true Christians and the others are bogus.

              Until all the self-identified Christian groups in the world get together to decide on a way of determining who counts as a real Christian and who doesn’t, including some sort of certification procedure that will allow you to say that someone who lacks the certificate isn’t a true Christian in the exact same way that someone who lacks a medical degree isn’t a real medical doctor, the only rational thing for everyone else to do is to presume that everyone who calls themself a Christian is a Christian. Just like a liberal Sufi and a murderous Talib are both Muslims and neither is entitled to say that the other is ‘no true Muslim’.

              That necessarily means that Christianity includes people like this guy, regardless of whether you agree with him or not, and regardless of whether you think he is being sincere.

              • CommentMaker

                DavidMHart,

                There are only 2 religions in the world. One believes that you have to do some kind of works to get to heaven and the other believes it is only faith that saves. When a person claims to be a Christian and adds works to his salvation, he is no Christian. It would be good to have all real Christians wear a pin, but that is impossible.

                • allein

                  OK, now you’re just being ridiculous.

                • CommentMaker

                  allein,

                  I’ve done my homework on this one. I know I am right. Don’t take my word for it, check it out yourself.

                • allein

                  You said there are “2 religions” in the world, and then listed two different perspectives on Christianity. So all the Jews and Muslims and Hindus and Jains and etc. etc. etc. don’t exist? It’s Christians-as-you-define-them and Those-who-claim-to-be-Christian-but-really-aren’t-because-you-say-so.

                  That’s ridiculous.

        • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

          Refuting your claims doesn’t even require science and I doubt any scientist would waste his time with this. If there were any scientists available to refute your claims they would be known as Atheologists and at this point in time that word doesn’t even exist because there is no academia studying atheism in this manner. Don’t believe me, well then Google Atheology and you get “Do you mean Theology?”
          As much as you wish to continue denying the scientific explanations for god belief the burden of proof still lays with you, the claimant.

          • CommentMaker

            TBJ,

            You disagree with this pastor, why? Proof or Scientific, you choose.

            • allein

              What exactly is the difference between “proof” and “scientific”?

              • CommentMaker

                allein,

                In this case, proof would be a living “example” and scientific would be a “proven process” that produces exact results. No theories.

    • onamission5

      So, you’re fine with men keeping their daughters as uneducated prisoners until they are brokered off to daddy approved husbands like cattle. I think your empathy is broken.

    • RobMcCune

      Actually, in this case atheists are trying to verify the existence of a jackass whose opinion gets accepted uncritically because he’s a preacher. I think the video does a great job verifying it.

      • CommentMaker

        RobMcCune,

        Great point. Many legalist pastors have that charismatic personality to draw many into their way of thinking. I think every organization has one or two of these guys. They think they are pleasing their god by performing strict obedience to what they see as “commands”. The human heart is not controlled by commands, but by love. It doesn’t matter what one believes, it is love that has the greater influence upon the human spirit.

        • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

          Oh, so the problem is that people like this are just doing it all wrong. And by the sheerest coincidence, you just happen to be doing it right. And how would you know that, given that there are 40,000+ denominations in Christianity all saying conflicting and contradictory things? How do you know you’re doing it right, and that this pastor in the OP is doing it wrong? He’s got Bible to back him up just like you probably do. He’s positive that his god is talking to you just like you probably are. You can dismiss him as “legalistic,” but the truth is, he’d probably think you weren’t doing it right just like you think he isn’t.

          • CommentMaker

            And with that, all Atheist agree to how to raise their kids, too. Naw! That isn’t believable either. I was a legalist with the same fears they have. They think they are right by doing what they do, but without love. How do you live with such conflicting ideas. Is it that you do not agree with what I have said? If so, lay out your plan. Don’t just disagree. Come on.

            • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

              Love is human and possibly other animal emotion that “we atheists” and the theists share. Atheist’s love their children (I hope) as much as a theist might. Let’s put it this way Cain went off and co-mingled with “other people” whom gawd did not create thus we will call them evolved humans. Because your sense of love is created and ours is evolved the emotion is only dissimilar in that context but evolutionary humans still love very much like created humans. Matter of theory, I’m sure it would be pretty hard to differentiate between the two emotions. I don’t believe any studies have been conducted to show a difference, I think its kind of a given that there is no difference. Despite the clear distinctions of our species you might be surprised by the almost unanimous qualities our separate species share, that being said it’s my personal opinion that being created gives the created human an air of superiority and a false sense of entitlement. But I must point out we were here first and your kin are the foreign and invasive species.

              • CommentMaker

                TBJ,

                Love is love and it is the same whether created or evolved. That we can share, and should, common interest increases the love. It is most unfortunate that this area is difficult to blend between Atheist and Christian. However, I think this is the area we can extend our likeness toward each other.

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

                  They think they are right by doing what they do, but without love.

                  Who is the “they” in this quote of yours?

                  How do you live with such conflicting ideas.

                  Is this a rhetorical question

                  It seem that you were directing you questions back into the forum or maybe I just read too much into them.

                • CommentMaker

                  “They” are the legalist.

                  I cannot find out why I said ‘conflicting ideas’ at the moment. Sorry.

                • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

                  What’s funny is that you are completely oblivious about why calling this guy “legalistic” doesn’t accomplish anything you want to accomplish. You denigrate how he’s practicing Christianity and imply thereby that you know the *REAL* way to practice it, but really, the truth is that neither one of you actually knows for sure. You think you do, but so does he. You think you’re on to the right idea, but so does he. You think you have a bead on exactly what your god wants, but so does he. You probably have all sorts of Bible verses to back your ideas up, but so does he. I’m trying to tell you that this tactic is doing nothing but backfiring for you.

                  Every single time you accuse him of doing Christianity all wrong, please understand that he’d accuse you of the same exact thing and he’d have just as much ground to do it as you do. Eventually it becomes a fight over who’s doing the least amount of damage to humanity, and really, if we’re going to go that route, why bother with Christianity at all?

          • CommentMaker

            BTW, Captain Cassidy, applying principles and seeing the results like they are stated is confirmation to me. I started off strict and legalistic, then I discovered the principle of the matter and have proven that it works. Not a miracle, simply put, it is the way the Creator instructed us to do it and it worked for me. I know others it worked for, too. You will never know that unfortunately.

            • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

              the way the Creator instructed us to do it

              I can’t speak to how others feel about this but personally I find language and phrases like that very prejudicial, inclusive and offensive. Perhaps you didn’t mean it that way, but not the less when “us” is connected a religious word like “creator” it makes me feel like you are assigning that attribute to include me. Which is inappropriate to do because I am an Atheist. I often, in other contexts, find that inclusiveness to be an arrogant position of the writer. I believe that my experiences are unique to me, that though I might be able to share in other peoples experiences my experiences are set with-in my exclusive frame of time and space. I feel like this may be true of others, I just can’t prove it to be true. If you are a creationist how would you feel if an Atheists stated “Darwin wrote that WE all evolved from single celled organisms 6.5 million years ago.” Well I think you would feel like he is trying to include you in his club and I think you would be offended by that. Or not.

              • CommentMaker

                My apologies. I would not inflict that upon you and it was not intentional. Please forgive me.

                I would just say, we can understand each other and make the comments we believe that are not attributed to one another. Just to respect each other.

            • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

              Keep making wild guesses about me, my belief system, and my past. It makes me laugh but it sure isn’t very loving, which is what your non-legalistic Christianity sort of demands of you.

              Christianity’s claims are still invalid, and you’re just acting the same way this pastor is acting. Good work showing me yet again that Christianity is downright toxic and that I was right to leave it.

    • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

      He’s part of a very large movement to deny young women their freedom and dignity. There really aren’t any “better examples” of the courtship and purity cultures, because they’re all about like this.

      We don’t need to prove there is no god. Christians need to prove that a god exists, and that such a god looks like their god. They haven’t. That so many Christians are capable of doing things like this toxic pastor is describing just lends credence to the idea that there is not an omni-benevolent or totally justice-loving god out there informing and inhabiting its adherents’ behavior and minds.

      • CommentMaker

        Check out the church’s website. It is a small storefront church. Their statement of Faith is a joke. He is truly a legalist.

        There is no physical proof of God other than His creation. You cannot prove The Big Bang or Evolution either. Any belief in these theories is like a religion, it is all about what you believe. When you believe strongly in something it identifies you. Consider Arnold Schwarzenegger and I, we both believe in exercise, however, he truly looks like he believes in exercise. Same for believers and non-believers. I don’t look or sound like an atheist, you do. That is your religion.

        • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

          use “blockquote” inside of “” and end it with ” /blockquote” inside of “” for quotes by others

          • CommentMaker

            I’m not good at this. Let me see if I understand. “”””

            • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

              start with “blockquote” inside of the brackets no spaces. then end with “/blockquote” inside of the brackets but remove the quotation marks, text goes here brackets are for the code not the text you are quoting
              <blockquote> bla bla bla </blockquote>

              • CommentMaker

                Ok. Let’s see.

                Think I am still missing something.

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

                  just type out my personal reply as I wrote it

                • CommentMaker

                  We are compatible

              • Guest

                bla bla bla

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

                  nice.

              • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ TBJ

                <blockquote> bla bla bla </blockquote>

        • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

          You’re not actually saying anything that disproves anything I wrote or that demonstrates the validity of Christianity’s claims. And the argument from ignorance got debunked long, long ago.

          Oh, and if you say something often enough, it magically becomes true, so keep saying I’m an atheist. It might turn true one day.

          • CommentMaker

            Then where are you coming from? What are your beliefs?

            • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

              They don’t matter. A person’s beliefs do not impact reality in the least little bit. You’re making a lot of assumptions about me because you need to dismiss and invalidate me as a person. Maybe you need to consider why my beliefs would even be relevant in a discussion about Christianity’s claims.

        • Psycho Gecko

          I’m afraid you have not provided sufficient evidence to believe in a deity. The existence of the earth does not qualify, as we have looked into the matter and found that it occurred via entirely natural means. At no point does the chain of scientific evidence stop and point to “And here’s where the god stepped in and did something.”
          Unless you’d like to provide actual evidence, we are afraid we cannot give any serious weight to your claims.

          Unfortunately for you, the big bang left a lot of background radiation that can be detected, while evolution has been backed up so far by fossils and genetic evidence. Many people have been critical of the Theory of Evolution, but so far none have ever presented credible scientific evidence disproving it. When they do so, the scientific community will gladly change its views to accommodate the evidence, as science is all about explaining reality
          Further, even if they were disproved, the default view doesn’t automatically shift to “God did it.”
          Think of it as a court case. There is no “innocent” plea, just like no one can definitely prove the nonexistence of a deity. Instead, you have “Guily” and “Not Guilty” or in this case “Believe in a deity” or “Don’t believe in a deity”.
          Christians have not made a case for believing in a deity.

    • Psycho Gecko

      It’s ok, folks. This one person here assures us this pastor who leads a congregation is No True Scotsman. We can all rest easy, despite the many other people who believe this man’s beliefs, because clearly one random anonymous Christian on a comment is a much better judge of the interpretation of an all-powerful deity than any other random Christian, including that pastor up there. Obviously this guy here is the true judge of how Christian any other Christian is.
      We can turn off the sirens and stop flashing the lights. Especially you drunk guys over there, zip your pants up. Keep calm and carry on, everyone.

  • M.S.

    Wow. This is shocking. It concerns me on two fronts (well, actually on many fronts…but two big ones):
    1) How insulting to his daughters that the only way their virginity can be ensured is by daddy’s creepy control and very tight guarding. If virginity is truly the best choice for these girls, wouldn’t it mean more if they made that choice for themselves? Wouldn’t the father-daughter relationship mean more if he loosened the reigns and trusted his daughters to make good decisions on their own?
    2) How insulting to women everywhere. I didn’t know that people still had this opinion of a “woman’s place” in 2013. If a woman wants to be a homemaker, great. If a woman wants to work, also great. Why is this choice being made for these girls by their father? I’m Catholic but was raised by my parents the same way they raised my brothers. And I expect my daughter to be every bit as independent as my son. Sad these poor girls aren’t given equal treatment or equal opportunity.

    • SansDeus

      Well for point #1 he does guarantee their virginity and says: “They’re not gonna be dating a guy that I don’t like”

      So don’t worry! He’s going to sleep with the boyfriends first.

      • threenorns

        ^^^ LMAO

    • Ryan

      You’re Catholic…what if your daughter wants to be a priest? How will you feel about her independence then?

      • M.S.

        I would respect her desire to be a priest. Hopefully by the time it will be possible; if not… she’ll have to find another path.
        I just want her to be happy on her own; without needing a husband or children to validate her self worth.

        • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

          You know, that sounds pretty reasonable to me.

  • CLoy

    I know a woman who could be one of his daughters. She told me about discussions she had with her husband but made sure she qualified any disagreements with “but I always defer to him because I AM obedient.”
    She was very proud of how obedient she was.
    Rarely as it happens, at that moment I was completely dumbstruck.

  • Fred

    New Christian Proverb: Daughters are a responsibility until you can get rid of them.

    New Christian reasoning for the enslavement of their female children: Because I’m not a feminist.

    • M.S.

      I wonder how ashamed or disappointed he would be if one of his daughters didn’t ever marry. Or what if they had fertility struggles. How on earth could they be of any “value” without a husband or children?

      • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

        I knew more than a few middle-aged women in my church who were “claiming a miracle” for their god to drop a godly husband in their laps out of the clear blue sky.

  • Harley Quinn

    In ten years I expect a book to be written by his daughter(s) about how she overcame a horrifically abusive childhood and had to struggle for independence.

    This guy makes me want to vomit.

  • yulaffin

    May his kids resist the brainwashing and run like hell when they reach 18.

    • Artor

      May they get emancipated and GTFO long before then. Ramen.

  • Drew

    “They’re not gonna be dating a guy that I don’t like. A guy that I don’t like is gonna get his face punched in. [Laughter]“. Really? By who? My kid would beat this fool to a pulp. Typical bully mentality, asserting one can kick the ass of somebody he hasn’t even met. Laughter, indeed…

  • Rachel

    So he’s going to leave them completely unprepared to “fend for themselves” or their families if the eventuality arises; and that’s OK because, at that point, they’re “not his responsibility”. Wow. What a dick.

    • trj

      Well, since the Rapture is juuust around the corner, getting an education is just a waste of time anyway.

  • SeekerLancer

    I hope his kids rebel and rebel hard.

    • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

      They will. The harder someone clamps down on human freedom and tries to erase human dignity, the faster and more thoroughly freedom and dignity seem to assert themselves.

      • http://gloomcookie613.tumblr.com GloomCookie613

        I hope those kids meet some sane, rational folks before they rebel too hard. I’ve seen a pastor’s daughter’s first semester college downfall up close and in person. It isn’t pretty.

        Oh, and the honourable Reverend is welcome. She failed out, but at least he’s not a grandpa right now thanks to my teaching his daughter about condoms. And stopped her from getting a tattoo on a whim. She was going for a “that’ll show Daddy” speed record, I swear.

  • Mike Hitchcock

    I think anyone who wants to control his daughters’ sexuality to this degree has some very unhealthy jealousy issues.

  • John of Indiana

    I hate to say it, but when I was younger, there were damn few young women I dated who had fathers that would have gotten in more than about 2 punches before they went down.What a fossil! He’ll probably marry-off his daughters in quasi-arranged marriages with other pastor’s sons.

  • http://quinesqueue.blogspot.com/ Q. Quine

    Research into fighting poverty around the world shows the great leverage gained by the education of girls. Women are going to use that education to stand for equal participation in work and society. Attempts to keep them “barefoot and pregnant” are doomed to failure, and that failure is a good thing.

  • http://parkandbark.wordpress.com/ Houndentenor

    So let’s imagine that his daughters don’t want to have their own careers. Let’s also imagine that they marry men who make enough money so that financially they don’t have to work. And then what happens if that man gets sick or injured and can’t work? Or what if he dies? Then what? At the very least she’s going to have to be independent enough to make financially decisions for the family (assuming that there’s enough money from disability or life insurance that she doesn’t have to get a job). What if he up and leaves them and is irresponsible about paying child support.

    This is the problem with fundamentalist thinking. Setting aside ideas like that his daughters might have skills and abilities that they would like to use in the world and want to work, it necessitates that nothing can go wrong in their lives to mess up their plan. Since we all know people who are widowed or divorced, the changes of something going wrong with his plan for his daughters life is too likely not to at least plan for it as a possibility.

    Of course, once his daughters are adults they can do whatever they want, including getting jobs. He hasn’t accounted for that either. That’s the thing about children. They have minds of their own and aren’t little robots that you can program to do whatever you want. In fact, children have a tendency to go out and do the opposite of what you told them just because they can. and the stronger you tell them they can’t, the more they want to. People are funny that way.

    • Guest

      I think the church is supposed to provide for them, like it did in the olden days. What if they never find a man to marry? What if daddy dies before they marry? What if they’re gay? There are so many uncertainties.

      • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

        If so, then these unmarried or gay women are shit outta luck, because my church sure didn’t have a Home for Unwed Non-Mothers and I’ve never heard of anything like a church program to support orphaned women who’ve never learned any kind of trade or useful job skill. Like the modern GOP, nowadays modern fundie churches condemn women who work outside the home, but refuse to help women whose economic situations require such work–and demonize the ones who do it anyway.

        • M.S.

          Which is what is so hurtful and unkind of these groups, because you know what single mothers and working mothers really don’t need more of? Guilt.

          • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

            Reminds me of that old saying from Amway: “The system works, if you work the system.” Working moms and single mothers did something wrong, obviously. If they were doing everything right, they wouldn’t need to work or be single. Obviously.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            Every single mother I know tears herself to pieces worrying that she isn’t giving her kids enough.

            • M.S.

              And that is a very exhausting way to live.

  • Bdole

    Uggh, I AM skipping this. This guy’s a dildo. Moving on.

    • Spazticus

      That would imply that he serves a meaningful purpose…which even objectively speaking, he doesn’t.

    • wombat

      That’s a mortal insult to dildos everywhere. At least dildos promote healthy sexuality.

    • Bdole

      wombat, spazticus: Too true. My mistake, plus at least dildos offer some kind of pleasure.

  • Frank Key

    Someone gift this guy a sailboat and set him off on a journey in the Pacific Ocean.

  • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

    One of the worst things fundamentalist Christianity does is indoctrinate its female believers into thinking that if they just follow the script, that everything will be perfect and wonderful for them. If they’re good little Christians, then they’ll find good Christian men to marry, and will be married forever and ever. Their children will be good, able-bodied, healthy little Christian children, preferably a matched set of girl and boy, and will one day get married in church themselves and provide grandchildren who in turn will continue. It’s a Disney fairy tale writ large.

    The reality is never taught: That Christians are just as likely to divorce as non-Christians and maybe more so. That Christian men–especially ones in toxic churches like this one sounds like it is–can be cruel, abusive, and completely non-Christian at home. That many women never find their perfect godly husband at all. That once located and married, Christian husbands can die early too, leaving behind a widow, or else they can leave the religion and refuse to go to church anymore. Some studies put children’s deconversions at anywhere from 60%-80% by adulthood, so the Good Christian Lady’s children are more than likely going to leave church too, and 20% or so of women never have children so that same woman might not ever see grandchildren.

    The fantasy simply never lives up to the messy reality that is life, and it is a disservice not to prepare women for that reality. It’s downright child abuse in my opinion. This pastor is doing nothing less than (to borrow a friend of mine’s words) tying a blindfold around his daughters’ eyes and sending them into zombie country armed with a dustcloth. On the plus side, this abuse may well open their eyes all the faster to the myth of Christianity, just as it did for me when reality collided with the Bible’s fantasies, but on the minus side, that might happen for them years after they’ve already totally messed up their lives trying to live the dream.

    Also, wow, he is kinda creepily obsessed with his daughters’ sexual “purity.”

    • Madison Blane

      And don’t forget, 1 in 5 are raped. So, after being told all her life that her identity and worth lies in her purity, some ‘good Christian boy’ from youth group comes along and takes that away and then threatens her, saying he will destroy her life, tell her parents and her church, so he can keep doing it, systematically torturing her for years. And if anyone DOES find out, it’s ALWAYS the girl’s fault for ‘putting herself in that position’ or for ‘tempting him’, and SHE’S the one who has to apologize. Or at least that’s what happened to several girls in my church. I think the guys swapped stories to know what techniques to use.

    • M.S.

      @captaincassidy:disqus absolutely. He is setting them up to fail if anything should go wrong (and lets be honest, sometimes things do go wrong!). I hope life works out as perfectly as he thinks it will, but I hope if it doesn’t, those girls can find independence and strength inside themselves.

  • James Farrar

    Oh, I’m sure those girls will actually work quite hard. It’s just that it’ll probably be in the porn industry, after this whack job is done imparting his many nuggets of biblical daddy issues.

  • threenorns

    i hope this guy is blessed with 3 sets of identical twin daughters and no sons at all.

    let’s see how much he likes paying THEM bills!

  • LJ Owen

    Do not wonder, Pastor AssHat, why the only women swimming in your tank are those missing most of a brain. All the good ones have risen, or will rise, above your small, fearfilled, and bigoted little god. No sane woman – or man – would ever want a part of a religion like this. You’ve lost so many, and your fear and bigotry drive away the rest. May you soon be just a memory.

  • Celsus

    As the father of a young daughter, I could only shudder in horror at all this.
    All the lessons of strength, independence, reason, and self-actualization I am teaching my daughter are the polar opposite of this deranged individual.

    My daughter is four, but already her hero is Sally Ride. I didn’t force it on her, either. She was intrigued about space and I delightfully encouraged the interest. She learned about astronauts, starting with Apollo 11. She was elated to discover Sally Ride soon after.

    She’s also crazy about Eli Manning, along with the other females in my family. I took her to Giants training camp last week and when she saw him she started jumping up and down and screeching. Do I have a geeky science girl who likes jocks? If that is her path, so be it. Then again, she is only four. All I can do, in the meantime, is to teach her to value herself.

    I agree with this idiot on one point only: I, too, will protect my daughter with all my being. My understanding of that notion is radically different than his, however.

    • M.S.

      @disqus_8RVaFG49vH:disqus of course, I agree too that I will protect my daughter with all my being. I will also protect my son with all my being too. (After all, who decided sons don’t need protection?) All good parents feel that way. And agreed with you, my “method” will be different than this joker’s.
      Good for your daughter and her excellent interests and heroes. Funny, my twin daughter is bigger, faster, stronger, and smarter than my twin son (don’t worry, I love them the same!). I don’t feel like that is “unnatural”, I feel proud of them both. We always joke she’s going to be the first woman in the NFL because she is so aggressive and tough. I’d be proud if she was. Its sad to think people like this pastor will look down on girls like my daughter for being brazen, unfeminine, and probably unholy, in their eyes.

  • JohnThorpe

    Fundamentalism is a mental illness and should be treated as such, and this behavior is child abuse and should be treated as such.

  • Paul Reed

    “A real winner, this guy.”
    I think you misspelled “wiener”…

  • R. Smith

    As a 20 year old female in college trying to be independent, how fucking dare he try to suppress his daughters like that.

    • Spazticus

      He also won’t let his kids go to college, and especially not his daughters…because he believes it will brainwash them. The irony of it all is astounding.

  • Patricia Dawe

    Good luck with all that!

  • Madison Blane

    I wonder if his daughters are the ones casting out sexual demons.

  • Janet

    Just watched a few minutes of the video starting at the 45:00 mark. It just gets so much worse. This guy is out of his damn mind.

  • Lina Baker

    Wow, he sounds just like the fundamentalist Muslims I know! I fear the day they realize how much they have in common. Will he also be asking for camels from the man that wants to marry his daughter?

  • markwhite007

    Religion is all about oppressing women and governing their vaginas.

  • Denise Litirvenn

    …and like every Mormon girl I’ve ever met that grew up in an incredibly strict home that “guaranteed purity until marriage” they’ll be whores the second you shut the door behind them.

  • Don Gwinn

    His kids will suffer, but I also hold out hope that they’re going to surprise him. He’s very confident in his ability to control his little world. Bad luck with that, dude.
    I wonder whether whatever notoriety buzz he gets out of this will really be worth it when those kids are grown and he has to live with his family as he made it.

  • JC DRINKING BUDDY

    The American fundie – you gotta lovem.

    • http://rolltodisbelieve.wordpress.com/ Captain Cassidy

      No, I totally don’t. ;)

  • theprinterlady

    One of the sad things about this (and there are soooooo many)… is that by failing to educate his girls (I presume he won’t want to “waste” the money and/or expose them to dating opportunities)… and by failing to allow them to build a job resume, he is setting them up to be very vulnerable to: an abusive husband (they won’t have the wherewithall to leave or support themselves), vulnerable if their husband dies, vulnerable if they don’t ever marry (and some people don’t!), vulnerable to a low self esteem (there is esteem in knowing you can work and earn a paycheck and support yourself)… additionally, I am presuming that he isn’t going to waste any time on sex education (since they won’t need it), which will leave both his sons and his daughters open to mis-guided beliefs about their bodies and how sex works (and how it works best).

    I cannot tell you how many Christian youth (most specifically girls) who are left completely in the dark about sex. They don’t even know what sexual arousal is, much less how to deal with it… and when sex is presented as “sinful”, they fail to plan for sex outside of marriage (even when involved in a relationship that is clearly headed to sex)… because if they don’t “plan” on sex, and it “just happens”, then surely G-d won’t allow them to become pregnant because they didn’t “mean” to sin…. even though their behaviours are clearly going that way.

    Prayer and repentance do not make a good birth control option…. as too many of the “good Christian” youth I’ve known have found out.

  • Jon Weaver

    I’m pretty sure in this guys little world, he can molest his own daughters, and they will still be “virgins” when they marry.

  • James Nailedher

    Its going to be funny when he punches the guy, no warning, just punches him and is then arrested when the guy returns with the police…or just breaks his arm in self defense.

  • vern

    watch?v=PlCyjCv4V40

    • vern

      That’s on Youtube:
      watch?v=PlCyjCv4V40

  • Bailey

    Feel really sorry for this guy when he is labeled as the worlds crappiest dad

  • katherine Hans Von Rotes schil

    This is the nonsense they call nature. They tell their women not to lift anything heavy and to eat lest than men. (LOL)

  • christianh

    So boys commit rape, etc… But girls don’t get anything…?

    KCID A TAE…

  • Kajal Deepak

    It would be funny to post a translated Islamic sermon next to this guy’s. Same exact thing. They too believe that women should stay home, not work, are weak, pass on from the ownership of the father to the husband, yada yada yada…
    You know…I actually used to think that Christianity and Islam are very different. But I am starting to realize that Islam looks ugly in its treatment of women because the fundamentalists took over its voice and practice long time ago. And that is what is happening to Christianity now. The fundamentalists are actually hijacking it, and it is starting to look and sound so much like Islam in what of it I am getting to hear, more and more.
    If there are still sane practicing Christians, I advise they speak up, because if they stay silent, there will be NO discernible difference between the SOUNDS or ACTUAL PRACTICE of these two religions, atleast from the PoV of us women.
    Scary.
    (note this comment is not against individual muslims or Christians, but simply a discussion of the attitude of the religious leaders, rhetoric and practice of these religions, as experienced in real life. The theory of a religion doesn’t matter: it only matters what its practice in real life looks like)

  • Andrew

    I dated a pastor’s daughter, once, and he thought he could forcefully keep her virginity intact by restricting our time together and telling us we couldn’t hold hands or kiss or anything he called “emotional adultery.”
    Let’s just say that didn’t work out for him.

  • Elisabeth M

    So…….. real question, how’s he gonna KEEP his daughters from getting a job (well, let’s just skip to moving out) when they decide they want to despite their supposed freedom not to? I guess there are ways to keep them home, but it gets fairly ugly and illegal.


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