Pseudo-Historian David Barton: ‘Atheists Get Angry Because They Do Know That God Exists’

Right Wing Watch’s Kyle Mantyla reports on a conversation Ray Comfort had on pseudo-historian David Barton‘s radio show … in which Barton claims “atheists get angry because they do know that God exists” and wonders why atheists get upset when evolution is challenged since he never gets upset when people claim Bigfoot is real:

You challenge what they believe about evolution and they get angry. And you ask them questions they can’t answer about their own belief, they get angry. And I was thinking too, you know, they do that in so many areas, including faith areas.

Why is it that atheists get mad? If they don’t believe in God, then why do they care if we do. And yet they go out there, working so hard and they’re so angry to shut down every expression. There’s groups that I don’t agree with and I don’t believe with, but I’m not angry at them and I’m not looking to shut down their existence.

I dare you to listen to that clip without seething with rage. Thankfully, though, Mantyla offers up the obvious response to Barton:

it should be noted that believers in UFOs and Bigfoot don’t have powerful, like-minded allies in Congress, nor do they have dozens of influential political organizations all operating with the goal of forcing the existence of Bigfoot and E.T. to be taught in public schools as fact and generally working to ensure that such beliefs form the basis of this nation’s public policy.

That’s it. Those who think UFOs and Bigfoot are real aren’t trying to push those views into public schools. If they did, we’d have to fight back. Creationism is just as much of a hoax, so the fight continues.

There’s good reason for us to be angry about it — we care too much about the education kids receive.

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

    You can add the intellect of Comfort and Barton together and still come up with only a half of a banana. Mind you, it would be a very dishonest half-banana making up quotes from the founding fathers about why you are not a good person.

    • EvolutionKills

      Bad banana!

      • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

        What has been see, can not be unseen…… (Stays awake for weeks in the fetal position.)

  • Frank

    When we are secure in our beliefs we do not get upset, ugly or offended when they are challenged.

    • baal

      When dishonest folks suggest we’re suing to close churches instead of getting the christian iconography (idols?)10 commandments off the courthouse steps, we do get angry. Not at god or religion per se but at flouting of law (aka crimes) and the lies in support of that crime.

      • Frank

        I guess you are not as secure as you think.

        • eric

          So, just so I understand, you think that it isn’t the sects constructing big stone plinths with their religious commandments on them on public land who are insecure. You think its the guys asking them to stop doing this illegal behavior that are insecure. Is that correct?
          Has it occurred to you that advertising your religious beliefs on a big public display and trying to imply that the power of the state supports you is a form of insecurity?.

          • Frank

            I cant speak for them and whether their motivations are based in insecurity or not but sharing our faith is an integral part of our faith so wanting our faith in the public square does not come form insecurity. It comes from integrity of faith.

            • Glasofruix

              Your integrity of faith seems to be illegal most of the time.

              • Frank

                Gods laws trump everything.

                • Glasofruix

                  Which would be relevant if he had, you know, an existence.

                • phantomreader42

                  So, Frank, how long do you think it’ll be before you finally hear the voice of your imaginary god in your head, telling you the day you’ve been awaiting has arrived, and you can go slaughter the infidels and bathe in their blood? Gods laws trump everything, even when they order you to rape, kill, and eat your own children, right, Frank?

                • rtanen

                  And when God sues me for slander and libel, I might believe it. Of course, that would require showing up in court, which would require existing.

                • ZenDruid

                  “God[']s laws trump everything.”

                  No, in your mind, the crazy bogeyman stories of some middle-eastern bronze age goat-fuckers trump reality.

                  Please don’t breed. Humanity has a slim enough chance of evolving beyond stupidity, and you don’t have any genes that we want.

                • cipher

                  I would “Like” this comment multiple times if Disqus would allow it.

                • Whirlwitch

                  I liked it once just for you.

                • cipher

                  ;-)

            • Fanraeth

              So if the integral part of my faith was slapping you in the face with a nerf bat whenever I saw you, I should be allowed to circumvent our laws against assault?

    • trj

      We get upset, and with good reason, when the challenger makes use of underhanded insults, strawmen, and straight-out lies, as people like David Barton and Ray Comfort are wont to do.

      • Frank

        Well I have seen just as many strawmen, insults and lies coming from atheists as well. I see them as they are. They don’t make me angry though.

        • Frazzah

          Feel free to share at least one such strawman.

          • Frank

            Good grief they are constructed here with every post.

            • Baby_Raptor

              Not agreeing with you does not mean that someone is constructing a strawman, Frank.

              • Frank

                I didn’t say that. Why do you need to make things up?

                • Canadian Atheist, eh!

                  Why can’t you ask yourself that same question?

            • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

              “Good grief”? Wasn’t that just a hint of anger there?

              • Frank

                No. Charlie Brown said it all the time but he was never angry.

                • VCP

                  Lie. Charlie Brown often said it when he was obviously angry.

                • Frank

                  There must be another Charlie Brown. It was a sign of frustration not anger.

            • RobMcCune

              Yes, mostly by Frank.

        • Matt D

          Have you? Which “strawmen, insults, and lies” have you see from Atheists? Name any of them, and we’ll see about getting that corrected.

          • Frank

            Really? There are no insults here? No lies?

            I guess you must like living in a fantasy world.

            • Matt D

              Looks like your getting angry there Frank. I like living in a world where evidence is more important than heresay, so again, please cite any evidence you have that Atheists use “strawmen, insults, and lies”.

              • Frank

                ho is angry? Not me. I think you may be projecting.

                • Matt D

                  Why am I still waiting for you to prove you aren’t lying, Frank?

                • Frank

                  I don’t need to prove anything. Why do you feel the need to prove something?

                • Matt D

                  Why am I still waiting for you to prove you aren’t lying, Frank?

                • Frank

                  I don’t need to prove anything. Why do you feel the need to prove something?

                • Matt D

                  Ditto.

                • RobMcCune

                  If you don’t need to prove anything, then why are you constantly trying?

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  You’re here because you know God doesn’t exist. But that scares you, so coming here and exercising your conviction that if you pretend to believe that God exists enough, eventually you really will believe.

                  It’s not enough for you to believe. If it was, you’d just believe and leave everyone else alone. But since you don’t really believe, you are compelled to come here and tell us that God exists, over and over again.

                • Frank

                  No. Sharing our faith is a command from Jesus.

                • phantomreader42

                  Jesus supposedly commanded you to do a lot of things, like give away all you own and love your neighbor. But you only bother to follow the one that gives you an excuse to be an annoying asshat. You don’t really give a flying fuck about jesus, you just like being an annoying asshat.

                • Frank

                  Why do need to make assumptions about something you know nothing about?

                • Canadian Atheist, eh!

                  Why can’t you ask yourself that same question?

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  Does that include needling people until they get frustrated and tell you to go away, and then asking why they’re angry?

                  I don’t recall that quotation in the Bible.

                  No, you don’t really believe yourself, so like the closeted gay person who is ashamed of themselves, you must constantly proclaim your absolute unshakable belief in God.

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  Hey, it’s ok Frank. Many of us were in the same boat, desperately witnessing, trying to drive away our own doubts.

                  (Not me actually, but many others on here)

                • Glasofruix

                  He also said not to display your dic… religiousness in public, i don’t see you following this one…

                • Frank

                  He did not say that. It was about the motivations of praying in public not that we cannot pray in public.

                • Glasofruix

                  Seems to be the same shit to me.

                • Frank

                  It’s not. The condition of the heart is everything.

                • Glasofruix

                  I cannot see the need to pray in public as anything other than an attempt to display some kind of superiority, same for the meaningless monuments.

                • RobMcCune

                  But it’s a display of superiority that comes from the heart

                  </sarcasm>

                • Frank

                  Thankfully what you think you see if only that.

                • That’s Not Yogurt

                  Fuck you and your faith.

                • cipher

                  It’s not enough for you to believe. If it was, you’d just believe and leave everyone else alone. But since you don’t really believe, you are compelled to come here and tell us that God exists, over and over again.

                  Rich, HUGE “Like”.

                  Missionaries and proselytizers are clueless regarding their own motives. They are the least introspective people on the planet.

                • Matt D

                  I’m still waiting for you to prove you’re not a liar, Frank, and FYI, this isn’t a private conversation. Onlookers are not impressed by you lying about others to prop up your beliefs, so you’re only making it t worse by avoiding my question.

                • Frank

                  I have not lied once. Why do you need to make false accusations?

                • Matt D

                  I’m comfortable people can see the truth by reading your posts, there’s really no need for me to continue demonstrating you are one. Have a nice day!

                • baal

                  Weird, for a good 10 minutes there the Matt D posts were all Franks.

                  I’m dying for a Disqus IP log and times log for your posts vs them trolls.

                • Matt D

                  Yeah, I’ve been *there* before, but I’m not sure why that happens (I’ve seen it happen to others). Mabye because I’m unregistered and using my work computer?

                • baal

                  I think it’s because you have a pathological mentality and play religo-troll sock puppet for kicks personally.

                • Matt D

                  Then you would be wrong, but clearly, it’s pointless to debate the issue, since you’ve made up your mind.
                  I’ll have to rely on people that have more trust, or perhaps the tools that show you’re wrong.

                • Michael Harrison

                  You made a claim; the burden of proof is on you to supply evidence.

        • tyler

          i wonder would you be angry or otherwise offended if your senator pushed through a bill that made public school students start the day by standing up and declaring “there is no god?” (it’s okay though because they’re not forced to do it, of course, just encouraged to do so by heavy social pressures)

          what about if your local public school decided that chemistry was bogus, and started teaching proper witchcraft and alchemy instead?

          would you be displeased if more than half of the population of your home country believed that because of your belief in god you are necessarily a bundle of moral depravity, just biding your time for the right moment to pull out a gun and start a massacre?

          would you be upset, angry, or offended, if somebody told you that the reason you are upset, angry, or offended, the only reason you possibly could be upset, angry, or offended, is because you are insecure, and certainly not because there is a very real problem with mandating school anti-prayer, teaching bogus science, and stereotyping believers?

          you’re not very good at empathy, are you?

          • Frank

            No I would not be angry. Sad but not angry.

            What does empathy have to do with certainty of belief? I have tremendous empathy for those that reject God but I am not angry.

            • Michael David Barber Moghul

              Certainty of belief is an oxymoron.

              • Frank

                Not to me.

                • Matt D

                  Oh? Then why are you on an Atheist blog, if your certain?

                • Frank

                  Because you need God whether you realize it or not. Because your position is a foolish one whether you realize it or not. Because God loves you too much to let you stay where you are.

                • Matt D

                  Nah. I don’t need “God” anymore than I need the “Gods” of all the other religions out there.

                • WallofSleep

                  “Because God loves you too much to let you stay where you are.”

                  Unless you’re a disease riddled, starving little brown kid in some foreign country, in which case you can fuck right off as far as god is concerned.

                • Glasofruix

                  You silly, that’s because skyfairy gave the freedom of choice to the starving kid and he chose to die of hunger.

                • Frank

                  Why does that make you angry and insulting?

                • baal

                  If god/jesus has one billionith the power ascribed to him, he really ought to do something. He never does, Matt D.

                • Frank

                  He displays His power daily.

                • phantomreader42

                  Your hallucinations do not count as miracles. You’re just a delusional fanatic.

                • Glasofruix

                  Evidence required.

                • Matt D

                  Uh, which post of mine are you responding too?

                • baal

                  You can click the replier name to see the replied to comment. I’ve seen Matt D change to Frank and Franks change to Matt D today. This is the 3rd day in 2 months where you and a troll play musical nyms. I conclude you’re the same person and this is not a Disqus bug (or if there is a bug it’s a timing thing on how disqus updates on log in/out and not a bug on how it lines up nyms to posts). Other nyms aren’t getting swapped to the trolls and especially not on multiple days.

                • Matt D

                  Well, if that’s the conclusion you’ve reached despite my protests, I don’t know how to convince you otherwise.

                • Blacksheep

                  There is a bug, sometimes it ascribes the wrong poster name, then refreshes a little while later.

                • baal

                  In your case, I’m not buying it.

                • Blacksheep

                  Not even sure what you mean by that – but nevertheless, there is a bug.

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  I actually briefly considered asking Hemant to verify that Matt D is at least posting from a different IP address than the people baal ascribes to him.

                  But then I remembered he’s a high school teacher. He probably gets his fill of drama.

                • Matt D

                  At this point, it just seems that baal has made up his mind about me, so proof won’t convince him anyway. But I welcome it, regardless, if you can get it.

                • Blacksheep

                  Good point!

                • baal

                  but this bug is specific to one poster, over time and goes both primary to troll and troll to primary. Were it mere random bug, it wouldn’t have that specificity.

                • Blacksheep

                  Got it. I’ve been experiencing a bug that manifests as my post showing as coming from the person I’m responding to – so for example this post might show up as coming from you – baal – the only difference being that baal is in gray, not blue.

                • Whirlwitch

                  I have seen the bug in action, and I have seen other regular posters, CPeterson for one, get swapped with trolls, of which Frank was one. I’ve never seen Matt D get swapped with anybody, probably he doesn’t post in the middle of the night EST like I do.

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson
                • baal

                  Wrong Rich, Dillahunty does not post under Matt D. Dillahunty is also clearly smart and tends to make really long comments when he makes them. Matt D is entirely inarticulate and tends to many small comments.

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  I didn’t think you were quoting ‘our’ Matt D, or confusing them. I thought you were perhaps quoting ‘the’ Matt Dillahunty.

                • baal

                  oic, you read it as an attribution to dillahunty. No, it was me tagging to who I think made the comment to which I was replying. I really want to look at the server logs so I can finally prove the troll’s identity.

                • Matt D

                  Feel free to look at those logs, I’d love to hear an apology from you afterwards. You can either do so on this blog, or email me at matthew.delemos@gmail.com.

                • Matt D

                  ” Matt D is entirely inarticulate and tends to many small comments.”
                  .
                  Uh, thanks for hurting my feelings, Baal.

                • WallofSleep

                  Insulting? The idea that we have an interventionist type deity that chooses to intervene in politics and sports, but not when people suffer by the millions, that is insulting.

                • Frank

                  Its clear you don’t understand certain aspects of Christian theology.

                • WallofSleep

                  And how many years must I devote to the study of “Mother Goose and Grimm” before I am allowed to conclude that “Goldilocks and the Three Bears” is a fairy tale?

                • Frank

                  I would hope you would know immediately as those are really fairy tales. God however is not.

                • WallofSleep

                  Yeah, Santa Claus is fake, but the Tooth Fairy is totally real. Nothing juvenile about that kind of thinking, no sir.

                  EDIT: And sadly, there is more “proof” for the existence of Santa or the Tooth Fairy than there is for a re-purposed God of War from Judea.

                • ZenDruid

                  Got evidence?

                • Michael Harrison

                  Structural and thematic, for instance. The Bible far closer to mythology than folktale to the extent it even has annoying lists (compare Book 2 of The Iliad) and silly origin stories (why snakes don’t have legs and why there are rainbows, versus why animals have tails and humans don’t and where spiders come from). Although tall tales also have origin stories, so maybe you’re onto something.

                • Guest

                  God is imaginary. Imaginary things cannot love.

            • tyler

              then, seeing as you have no problem with it, i think i shall get right on promoting that anti-prayer law. you are saying you won’t contest it if it becomes law, yes? sad people aren’t activists, after all. sad people merely watch with disappointed looks on their faces. if they did anything else, they would be angry people, which you are not.

              empathy has nothing to do with belief. it has to do with you as an individual. you are (apparently) incapable of experiencing very human emotions and reactions such as, but not limited to, indignation, righteous anger, and passion in general. you are therefore incapable of affecting any real change, because your dispassionate milquetoast ideals could never ignite a revolution. you lose your identity as an active player and become a mere passive roadblock to progress. as a result, you lose all ability to relate to your fellow human beings, and being incapable of imagining what could motivate one to action, you instead ascribe motivations with grounding not in reality but in misguided stereotypes fed to you by the society you are content to have no part in shaping.

              i am an angry, passionate person, but to be honest looking at your comments i’m mostly just sad.

              • Frank

                Contesting something which you feel is wrong does not equate to anger.

                But to answer your question, no I would not protest.

                • tyler

                  oh right, while we’re on it, is there a reason you seem to believe anger is to be held in such low esteem?

                  i suppose jesus was just insecure whenever he flipped tables and cursed fruit trees. hm~

                • Glasofruix

                  Contesting something which you feel is wrong does not equate to anger.

                  Our point exactly.

                • Frank

                  I don’t question people desire to contest something. When anger comes in however it is very telling.

                • Glasofruix

                  I think you forgot your usual frank costume.

        • cipher

          I see them as they are.

          Oh, please. You see NOTHING as it is. You wouldn’t recognize objective reality if it walked up to you and introduced itself.

    • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

      The only time, I get annoyed (not offended) is when someone says something that is so monumentally stupid and ignorant that he or she lowers the collective I.Q. of our species by a point or two, then struts around like a cock-of-the-rock as if they had just made some never-thought-of-before, brilliant rebuttal.

      Barton and Comfort are annoying because they are deliberately misleading, willfully ignorant, and practically brain dead, and yet they keep saying the same things over and over and over.

      • Frank

        So then its ok if I get angry with the people here? You see it works both ways. I don’t get angry with the people here because there is nothing that can be said to me to make me deny the existence of God. There is no real challenge to my faith here.

        • Tainda

          Then feel free to go away.

          I don’t go troll your blogs so why come here? Oh that’s right, you people push your beliefs on others. Nevermind, carry on.

        • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

          Depends, if any commenter here uses the same argument over and over again, after it has been shown to be factually incorrect, (see Comfort’s “Male evolving separately from female” argument or “Creation implies a creator”, or Crocoduck or Barton’s ‘Aitken bible’ lies, or his Jefferson lies, or his quote mining of an Adams letter, or his fake Washington quotes, or basically everything he has ever said or written), then maybe you should get angry.

          Also, if you come here to debate and then say ‘nothing that can be said to me to make me deny the existence of God’, you are not really debating. You’re yelling.

          I suppose theoretically there could be evidence that would lead me to believe in a god. So far, all the evidence that has been presented isn’t convincing to say the least.

        • Baby_Raptor

          Then please go away. Nobody wants you here anyway. All you do is make people wish Disqus had an ignore function.

          You refuse to engage in any sort of conversation that would actually get anywhere. All you do is sit there with your fingers in your ears insisting that you’re right, we’re all wrong and you’re superior.

          • Frank

            Why are you so angry?

            • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

              Is there something wrong with being angry?

              • Frank

                Not always.

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

                • That’s Not Yogurt

                  He hasn’t stopped raping children; why would he stop beating his wife?

        • That’s Not Yogurt

          Nobody here cares whether or not you deny the existence of god. You are the one who cares about that. I have no need to deny the existence of something which has not been proven to exist.
          Nevertheless, fuck you and that ugly whore your “savior” crawled out of. I say this not in anger, but just to make sure it’s the sort of thing worthless goons like you have to see when you show up where you’re not wanted.

          • Blacksheep

            “Nevertheless, fuck you and that ugly whore your “savior” crawled out of.”

            Where does a sentiment like that even come from?

            • Matt D

              The frequent trolling by regulars does not put everyone their best behavior, but hostility towards Christianity isn’t unwarranted for many of us.
              .
              For example, I can only hear that I’m going to hell for being gay so many times before I respond with a threat of my own.

              • Blacksheep

                I get it. For what it’s worth, the Bible spends much more time condemning people who are judgemental, prideful, adulterous, dishonest, etc. than it does homosexuality.

                • Blacksheep

                  (I get your comment – not That’s not yogurt’s).

                • Matt D

                  I know, which is all the more reason I’m angry. They spend more time focusing on things outside the mirror (the unknown) to avoid looking into it. It’s fortunate that there are more kind and compassionate people than not (I’m not blind to the support gay people have been getting in my lifetime) but they aren’t the ones who twist and shout, of course.

            • cipher

              Where does a sentiment like that even come from?

              Do you really want to know where it comes from, Blacksheep? It comes from a lifetime of hearing people like you telling us we’re born in sin and deserve to be tortured eternally. I am so heartily sick of people like you and Frank I no longer have the vocabulary to describe it. You people have, quite literally, ruined my life. Christianity is pure evil. With the fullness of my being, I wish that man had never existed (or, if he didn’t, that the mythology developed around him had never come into existence). If I could press a button and make all of you disappear, I would do so without a nanosecond of hesitation.

              • Frank

                If you feel like your life is ruined I am sorry you feel that way. Its a terrible way to live but you did yourself. Everyone likes to play the blame game but no one likes to take personal responsibility.

                • cipher

                  You’re genetic garbage. You shouldn’t be allowed to reproduce.

                • islandbrewer

                  You forgot the “I’ll pray for you.”

                  If you’re trying to goad people into anger, as you so obviously must be, that’s a good one to toss in.

                • ZenDruid

                  It’s just as well. We could legitimately demand that the godbots sacrifice a goat instead of praying. After all, it takes a fair bit of fuel to sustain the dependable neurons necessary to maintain the real world.

            • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson
          • Frank

            Your words have no power.

            • cipher

              Well, you have no brains. We’re even.

    • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

      I get upset or offended when somebody pretends that they know what I think, or believe, or feel, or do, rather than having the intelligence, courtesy, honesty, and courage to ask me what I think, or believe, or feel, or do, and then from this pretense of omniscience, they proceed to tell anyone who is gullible enough to listen to them at all some idiotic and defamatory statement about me.

      • Frank

        Why? People make assumptions about other people daily. So do you. Only when we are insecure does assumptions bother us.

        • Baby_Raptor

          Yes. We get it. You know everything, and are here to tell us exactly what we think and why.

          Please shut up already.

          • Frank

            Why are you angry?

            • phantomreader42

              Perhaps because you are lying. Isn’t that imaginary god of yours supposed to have some sort of problem with bearing false witness, Frank? Not to mention sorcery, like your pretending to be able to read people’s minds.

            • Matt D

              Many reasons. You being a liar, refusing to consider any evidence we give, refusing to understand that your religion isn’t the only one in existence.
              .
              Oh and my favorite, is where you start a conversation with Atheists by stating that being angry must mean we know we are wrong, then you spend the rest of your time intentionally provoking us!

            • islandbrewer

              Why is it wrong to be angry at someone who is lying, refusing to engage in honest debate, misrepresenting one’s position with strawmen, pretending to take the moral high ground without demonstrating one shred of morality, and generally acting like an asshole?

              Is that not sufficient reason to be angry?

              Why so evasive, Frank?

              • Frank

                Why are you so angry? Why do you feel the need to misrepresent? Is your position that weak?

                • islandbrewer

                  I am angry because there are six states in which it is illegal for me to hold public office because of my non belief. I am angry because smug shitbags such as yourself believe you are more moral than I am. I am angry because fucking religious assholes are slowly destroying our ecosystem, because they believe their invisible man in the sky wouldn’t let anything terrible happen to the earth. I am angry because fucking worthless moralizing religious fucktards prevent women from having simple and safe medical procedures which could save their lives. I am angry because, when faced with pages and pages of cogent arguments, assholes who don’t give one fucking damn about the people they are speaking to plug their ears and repeat the same shitty mantra-like fallacies about True Christianity (TM) and faith. I am angry because you insinuate that my “position is weak,” without actually making any argument, and it is tiresome.

                  I am angry because you are quite pointedly looking down at me, and others here, many of whom have accomplished some pretty amazing things, because you think you have a giant invisible imaginary friend, who is really going to show us what for … after we die.

                  But I’m generally a happy person. I’m happy because people like you and argument styles like yours are a big reason that atheism is on the rise in the US. I’m happy because people very much NOT like you continue to explore the universe (the actual one), and invent, and discover, rather than marvel at how great their imaginary friend(s) is(are). I’m happy because, while in my introductory class at the beginning of last year, one of my fourth graders proudly stated that he was an atheist when we were going around the class and talking about ourselves.

                  Please explain, in detail, what I have misrepresented.

        • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

          Since I don’t pretend to know from afar the thoughts, feelings, and innermost motives of others’ minds, I have to ask you if you are asserting that you know my mind better than I know it myself, or if you’re just playing amateur psychic psychoanalyst.

          The issue surrounding Barton’s asinine remark isn’t about “insecurity” about one’s beliefs, as you keep trying to frame it. The issue is about someone telling lies about a large group of people and pretending that he knows what he’s talking about. Anger or upset about real world mistreatment such as slander and bigoted defamation is not about “insecurity.” It’s a part of fighting back. The idiotic and ugly stereotypes about atheists such as Barton’s classic one here do serious harm to people, and fighting back is legitimate. If you were fighting back against unfair and preposterous slander or mistreatment against you, I would not be so presumptuous to suggest that that somehow indicates that you are “insecure in your beliefs.” That would be absurd. There’s no connection.

        • Michael David Barber Moghul

          Frankly, Frank. You’re just another religitard asshole with nothing to add to any conversation here, so just GTFO already.

          • Frank

            So there are no insults here? Right.

            Why are you so angry?

            • wombat

              Ignoring two well-thought-out, in-depth answers in favour of a quick snipe. Ten points for undermining any credibility you had, have, or could ever possibly have.

        • Spuddie

          If it makes you feel any better nobody assumes you are an intelligent person with something worth saying.

          You have not challenged those assumptions yet.

          • Frank

            Ah yes insults. Thankls for proving my point so wonderfully.

            • Spuddie

              What point? You don’t have one.

              All I see is poo being flung and trolling.

        • RobMcCune

          That seems like an assumption on your part.

          • Frank

            Thanks for supporting my point.

            • RobMcCune

              You’re assuming I proved your point, your assumption is wrong. Also assuming things proves my point :P

              • Frank

                Which of course is my point: everyone makes assumptions.

                Thanks!

                • RobMcCune

                  Really then why didn’t you just say that in the first place? Seems you don’t feel too sure about assuming insecurities in others, otherwise you wouldn’t have backed down.

                • Frank

                  I made a general statement. I am secure in that statement.

                • RobMcCune

                  But not in this one:

                  Only when we are insecure does assumptions bother us.

                  The mystery of Frank’s disappearing point.

                • baal

                  At the time of my reply, it’s a Matt D. I’m testing to see that it flips to being “Frank” in a few minutes when the next update is pushed.

                • Frank

                  Its a Disqus bug and its frustrating.

                • baal

                  If it happened to others more and you less, I’d find that argument compelling. Maybe ‘Frank’ is in your house right now using your internets?

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  Careful, frustration is a gateway emotion :-)

                • Frank

                  :)

        • C.L. Honeycutt

          Only when we are insecure does assumptions bother us.

          That’s something that only people who have all the power and lack empathy say. You’d know that if you actually read the discussions on this site instead of trolling as you have admitted to doing.

          Also, you’re projecting. You are here trolling BECAUSE you are insecure, hypocrite. Ask Jesus to help pry that beam out of your eye.

    • WallofSleep

      Do be sure to inform the professional, millionaire god-bothers of that. They don’t seem to be following your program very well.

    • That’s Not Yogurt

      I’m secure in my beliefs. I’m just tired of having whiny Jesus goons get in my face with their weirdo beliefs.
      But never forget: Jesus gives MIRACLE head!

    • UWIR

      Wow, Martin Luther King Jr. must have been really, really insecure in his belief that black people deserved to be treated with respect.

    • Sven2547

      There is “challenging” beliefs (which I encourage) and there is LYING about beliefs (which is stupid).

      David Barton is lying.

    • Guest

      That’s just not true. In fact, people often get really upset when something they believe absolutely is challenged, because a belief like that feels like a part of them.

  • baal

    Barton implies that atheists are trying to shut down the existence of christians.
    Only problem is that he seems to say its the churches when in fact it’s the christian iconography on governmental places.

  • TheAtheistGeek

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think any Bigfoot believer has ever killed an abortion doctor in the name of Bigfoot.

    • Frank

      And only a few self proclaimed Christians have done so. A direct anathema to their so called faith.

      • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

        Aren’t all Christians ‘self-proclaimed’?

        • Frank

          Yes and no. Not everyone who claims to be Christian is.

          • icecreamassassin

            Could you give some hints as to how to tell the difference?

            • Frank

              Sure but I will have to quote scripture. If that’s ok I will.

              • icecreamassassin

                Go for it.

                • Frank

                  “Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God” (John 1:12).

                  “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved” (Ephesians 2:1-5).

                  “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” (Ephesians 2:8–9)

                  “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control…” (Galatians 5:22,23)

                  There’s more but you get the idea.

                • skinnercitycyclist

                  All of which cites have been quoted by Westboro Baptist Church. So they are True Christians™?

                • Frank

                  Anybody can quote scripture. The proof is in how a life is lived. WBC are not living a Christian life.

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  I’m certain Fred Phelps would disagree with you, and he knows the bible pretty well. So by what authority do you claim that he is not a Christian and you (I presume you’d make the claim) are?

                  Having a way to tell the real Christians from the pretenders isn’t useful if it can’t be used. Since my assessment isn’t the same as yours, I’m left with just trusting you to tell me who all the true Christians are. But how do I know to trust you and not Fred Phelps?

                  You see how problematic that is?

                • Frank

                  No problem at all. When you look at what Fred Phelps says and does do you see Christ? Do you see love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control?

                  Even Jesus said:

                  “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” (Matthew 7:21-23)

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  ok, but when I read all the stuff you post, I don’t see Christ either. I see some of the attributes that you have selectively applied to Christ, mostly the ‘self control’, not so much the ‘kindness’.

                  But what do I do when Fred Phelps quotes a bunch of different scripture? You know he can.

                  Mathew 7 could equally be used by Fred Phelps to prove that you are not a Christian.

                  And BTW, you’ve also described a lot of Hindus. Was Mohandis Gandhi really a Christian?

                • Frank

                  No he was not and yes we all struggle with sin and selfishness which work against the fruit of God. Its one thing to have flaws its another to be someone like Fred Phelps. I see no redeeming qualities in him. You may want to defend him to make your point but I don’t see Jesus in Him in any way, shape or form.

                  And a comment board is so limiting and a very inferior way to communicate.

                • islandbrewer

                  So according to you, if I’m on my death bed, and repent of my evil atheistic ways, it does me no good to ask Jesus for forgiveness, because I’ll have no time to manifest the works by which I’m supposed to be known as a True Christian (TM).

                • Frank

                  No that’s not what I said. But you can come to Christ on your deathbed. I pray that you do.

                • islandbrewer

                  But you can come to Christ on your deathbed.

                  Not according to you, because:

                  Faith without works is dead.

                  So without works, I am no True Christian (TM), so goes your logic.

                  Why am I on my deathbed conversion at the last second more of a True Christian (TM) than, say, Fred Phelps, who may simply be misguided by homophobia, self-loathing, and a literal interpretation of scripture, but would otherwise be kind and loving and christiany and all that? Or Hitler, for that matter?

                  If you, whom I presume are a True Christian (TM), lash out in anger, once, do you cease to be a True Christian (TM)? What if it’s twice? Three times? At what point between you, your wonderfulness, and the genocide of 7.5 million people do you cease to be a True Christian (TM)? Can we measure people with patented Christianometers? Would those be like the E-meters that Scientologists use to measure body thetans?

                • phantomreader42

                  When I look at what Fred Phelps says and does, I see an arrogant, bigoted asshole.
                  When I look at what you say and do, I see an arrogant, bigoted asshole.
                  If all christianity does is make christians arrogant, bigoted assholes, what good is it?

                • Frank

                  We see through a glass darkly.

                • phantomreader42

                  You can’t see anything with your head so far up your ass.

                • RobMcCune

                  That’s the blinders of your religion, take them off, it get’s clearer.

                • busterggi

                  Then don’t claim you know what you’re looking at.

                • Matt D

                  When you learn to apply this wisdom to your own religion, you’ll understand Atheism better.

                • Without Malice

                  Which is why you can’t see through the BS of Christianity.

                • busterggi

                  Well someone claims jesus said something like that but where is the evidence other than that presented by someone with an agenda to propagandize for religion?

                • eric

                  But I look at what you are doing here and I don’t see Christ. So what does that mean?
                  Well, either you’re not Christian. Or people’s intuitive sense of “seeing Christ” can be wrong. In which case, yours can be wrong too.

                • WillBell

                  They’d say you’re not living a Christian life… why should I give you more credence?

                • Jim Jones

                  > WBC are not living a Christian life.

                  They follow the bible closer than you do.

                • Frank

                  No they don’t. in fact they don’t seem to follow it at all.

                • eric

                  So are you saying that only loving, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle, and self-controlled christians are real christians?

                  That eliminates a lot of sinners. In fact it eleminates a giant chunk of traditional Christian theology, which is generally taken to say that all sinners, ALL sinners, can be saved if they accept Christ. Right?

                  Its kinda funny how you are trying to argue against self-proclaimed Christians all being Christians by quoting a bit of scripture that says “it is the gift of God, not a result of works.” You seem to be judging their Christian-ness by their works.

                • Frank

                  Not at all. Faith produces good works. Faith without works is dead. You know a tree by its fruit.

                • islandbrewer

                  Actually, I can tell a tree by it’s leaves. Or a genetic analysis. Fruit actually isn’t always the best indicia of tree type.

                • busterggi

                  But a religion can also be known by its nuts.

                • eric

                  I do indeed know them by their works – you’ve posted a huge amount of times here. Clearly you lack self-control. Ergo, not a real christian. Responding to this will simply add more confirming data.

                • Frank

                  I don’t need to respond I choose to. So its confirmation of nothing but nice that’s a nice try at setting me up.

                • Lagerbaer

                  You do realize that various Christian sects have various opinions of this? Are you saved by grace or by works? If you think it is works, Jack Chick might want to have a word with you. Or, more likely, will draw a nasty cartoon about you.

                • Jim Jones

                  > There’s more but you get the idea.

                  Sure do.

                  “Christianity: 2,000 years of everyone making it up as they go.”

          • RobMcCune

            Odd since you constantly cite the number of self proclaimed christians. I suppose the only true christians are the ones that suit your argument.

          • busterggi

            Who gets to decide – you?

            Why should I believe you are a real Christian let alone that you can tell who else may be?

          • SansDeus

            They believe they are, even if they don’t fit the biblical definition.

            That statement gives a strong whiff of the “No true Scotsman” fallacy as you could apply that statement to people who don’t follow Leviticus word-for-word. Though they could still fit the scriptures you provided later.

          • Jim Jones

            Yes they are. Just like Muslims, Jews, Jains, Buddhists, Sikhs and every other group.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            If you’re not familiar with that fallacy yet and why repeating it makes people laugh at you, one has to wonder if you’re made to type by your trainer putting peanut butter all over your fingers and duct taping a towel over the keyboard.

          • usclat

            Frank, please shut up. So YOU know what it is to be a true christian? I see … wow, you guys are so screwed up. You’re all constantly attacking each other and other myths and their believers …. holy shit, religions have NO basis in logic, common sense, evidence or reality. YET, we have to put up with shit-for-brains like you who come in and tell everyone how some of your fellow shit-for-brains aren’t really ‘true’ SFB’ers! Wow.

            • phantomreader42

              The funny thing is, no matter how many True Christians™ are in the same thread, they never, ever address the fact that each of them considers the others fakes. Because they only pretend to care about what constitutes True Christianity™ when it’s immediately convenient for them.

          • decathelite

            So your 2 billion and counting isn’t really a true statement?

            • phantomreader42

              It was not intended to be a factual statement :P

        • William Robert David Niblett

          no. they can call themselves such all they like. to ACTUALLY be a “christian” christ would have to EXIST….so, no, there is no such thing as chirstians, just deluded fools who call themselves such.

      • baal

        And yet other christians aided and abetted eric rudolph.

      • Spuddie

        But all people who have done so are self-proclaimed Christians.

    • Lagerbaer

      To be fair, from a friend of a friend I heard about a guy who sent hate mail to someone who had made fun of his belief in bigfoot..

      • Str3amer

        Then he was no true bigfoot believer.

  • eric

    In addition to the social policy stuff, I don’t have bigfoot believers telling me I’m immoral and evil for not believing in bigfoot. That’s kinda insulting and likely to provoke a bit of anger, even if you aren’t pushing a pro-bigfoot social policy.

  • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

    Actually, I’m angry because I have a large amount of plausible evidence that DAVID BARTON exists.

    • Donatello

      David Barton’s existence could be seen as evidence that Jahwe doesn’t exist because if he did exist, were almighty and actually cared about his commandments Barton would have dropped dead a long time ago.

    • EvolutionKills

      Bravo sir, bravo! That made me laugh all too hard.

    • Randay

      Atheists are so angry that they don’t go door-to-door to tell you that you are going to hell if you don’t accept some so-and-so as the light of your life. Atheists are also so angry that they don’t get up on soapboxes in public squares to spout out idiotic quotations from some “holy” book. Atheists are so angry that they ignore the “wisdom” of god groupie David Barton.

  • icecreamassassin

    “And you ask them questions they can’t answer about their own belief, they get angry.”

    Talk about projection…

    • baal

      The right has absconded with all the projection machines and broken everyone’s irony meters. Soon we won’t have any straw left for feeding cattle since it’s used by the right to make armies of strawmen.

      • Spuddie

        Global warming is caused by CO2 emitted from constant burning of strawmen.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

    ….

  • Beth

    Using his line of thinking: why does he care if we don’t believe?

    • phantomreader42

      Because he knows that god is nothing more than a figment of his imagination and his entire life in founded on lies.

    • Matt D

      He’ll just say he’s trying to save us from hell. These people haven’t exactly just popped up, they’ve had centuries to fine tune their counter-arguments and rhetoric.

  • Tainda

    I HONESTLY do not give a shit what people believe in just keep out of my business with it!

    • Tainda

      And for the uninformed, my business includes the US government.

  • newavocation

    I’ve always had a problem with FRAUD! Taking advantage of simple minded individuals. Scaring children and treating women and gays like second class citizens.

  • WallofSleep

    Yeah, I couldn’t possibly count the number of times I’ve been absolutely infuriated by the knowledge that invisible, pink unicorns exist. It makes me livid, I tell ya.

    • baal

      I think I did get a little upset when the pink unicornist football coach rounded up the team and had them go on about lovely and pink and invisible the unicorn is. A student lead the exercise but these student led horn love sessions never happen with the other less ungulate infatuated coach.

  • Spuddie

    Atheists get angry when they come to the realization that there are enough stupid people to keep David Barton employed.

    • David Kopp

      Employed as anything other than a fry cook. Everyone’s useful for something ;) How’s that quote go, some people are like Slinky’s?

      • WallofSleep

        “How’s that quote go, some people are like Slinky’s?”

        In that they often get tangled around your legs, and you need to use a pair of tin-snips to get free?

        • David Kopp

          That, and generally useless but fun to watch them go down a flight of stairs ;)

  • WallofSleep

    “Pseudo-Historian David Barton”

    If that right there is not proof positive that Hemant is indeed friendly, I don’t know what is. Calling Barton a “Pseudo-Historian” is about the most generous, kind, and benevolent thing you could call him.

    • phantomreader42

      I don’t recall ever seeing Hemant use the proper title for The Liar Tony Perkins.

  • Fred

    If atheists knew that god existed, we’d show our evidence.

    • baal

      If atheists knew god existed, they wouldn’t be atheists. Try harder Matt.

      • WallofSleep

        I think Fred’s point is that, being the evidence-based people that we are, if we ‘knew’ that god existed, as Barton asserts, we would both have and present the testable evidence to support that “fact”. Something which the devout have never been capable of, for obvious reasons.

        Of course, I could be reading him wrong.

        • Fred

          YEP.
          I didn’t think it would be that hard to figure out where I was coming from. Thought wrong I suppose.

          • WallofSleep

            Don’t be too hard on Baal, I’m betting it’s a simple misunderstanding. There’s some kind of bug in the comment system that sometimes shows the wrong nic for a comment. Hitting refresh fixes that, temporarily.

            • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

              No, it’s not a misunderstanding. baal is convinced that Matt D is a psychopathic sock puppet. It’s at the point where protests just convince him more.

              • WallofSleep

                But, but, but… “Fred”.

                • Fred

                  I’m totally a real boy and not a sock puppet!

                  When I’m on my home computer I’m posting under a different name. That’s because of an inability to remember which credentials are saved where and I can’t be arsed to fix it But totally not a Matt or Frank or whatever.

                • WallofSleep

                  Don’t take it personal. I once saw Richard Wade here make a rather dubious and unintelligent argument in support of creationism, to which I thought “WTF?!?! Did I wake up in an alternate universe”? Of course it was not him, and that’s when I learned of this damned comment bug.

                • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

                  Wow I’m glad I didn’t see that, otherwise I might have gotten angry, (or more likely a WTF?!?! like you did) but we have it on the authority of the self styled world’s most preeminent psychic psychologist that anger is somehow a certain sign of insecurity. Close call. whew.

                • baal

                  ok :)

              • Matt D

                Yes he is, but I don’t understand why…it’s not like I haven’t visitied and made comments on this blog for some time now. I am getting sick of seeing him slander me for no reason, but I’m not going to flee the blog because one man made a mistake.

                • islandbrewer

                  Sorry, I haven’t been following this …. baal thinks that Frank the True Christian (TM) is Matt Dillahunty?

        • baal

          Matt D’s troll nym of the day is Frank (and fred?). The OP can be read in two ways, the one you suggest and the one I suggested. He’s very good at using language badly like that. It’s part of being a good troll.

          • WallofSleep

            Hit the refresh button. I am seeing his nic as “Fred”.

          • phantomreader42

            Frank is a known troll that keeps reinfesting various Patheos blogs. And Disqus was programmed by squirrels high on LSD.

            • cipher

              And Disqus was programmed by squirrels high on LSD.

              You got that right!

          • Matt D

            Why does a conspiracy theory that I’m “Frank” or “Fred” in disguise, sound more plausible to you than Disqus being buggy?

            • Frank

              Its unrealistic to expect reason from the unreasonable.

              • Matt D

                It is also unrealistic to claim one religion is right, and the other thousand are wrong, yet it doesn’t stop you from doing so.

              • C.L. Honeycutt

                Which is why we’re so tolerant of you, angrums.

      • Fred

        Who the frick is Matt?

  • Oranje

    I don’t know how Kyle stays sane. Tip of the cap to him.

  • phantomreader42

    I have never had a person tell me they had received orders from Bigfoot to murder me. I HAVE had people tell me they had received such orders from the christian god.

    • Canadian Atheist, eh!

      Yeah, and no one tells my children they’re going to burn for eternity if they don’t accept Bigfoot as their “saviour.” No one blames hurricanes and disease on lack of faith in Bigfoot. I could go on.

  • MyScienceCanBeatUpYourGod

    “Religious nuts get mad at atheists because they know we’re right”

  • Just my $0.02

    “Barton claims “atheists get angry because they do know that God exists” and wonders why atheists get upset when evolution is challenged since he never gets upset when people claim Bigfoot is real”

    I’m not aware of any organized Bigfootists who try to get their pseudo-theory taught as fact in schools or go around scaring the living shit out of children with fears of being attacked by Bigfoot for not believing in in him or worshiping him correctly. I’ve never heard of Bigfootists receiving government funds or tax-free status for their club or for “alternative” medical or psychological facilities owned by their club. And I don’t know of any Bigfootists who accuse A-bigfootists of being immoral, untrustworthy, dangerous, or unfit for public office.

    I’m not angry at believers in Bigfoot because, to my knowledge, they don’t impose their beliefs, practices, or ideology on others and they aren’t given special rights or unfair tax benefits by a Bigfootist majority government.

    • Canadian Atheist, eh!

      Indeed. It’s a risibly fatuous claim, and the mind reels just trying to fathom people apprehending it as sound logic.

  • Rain

    Pseudo-Historian David Barton: ‘Atheists Get Angry Because They Do Know That God Exists’

    I think he is doing what is commonly known as “trolling”. Except it is the sociopathic kind, not the funny haha kind.

    Why is it that atheists get mad?

    Basically that is Barton’s equivalent of the “U mad bro?”

  • cipher

    And believers in aliens and Bigfoot don’t think everyone who disagrees with them deserves to burn forever in a lake of fire.

    Psychopaths, the lot of them. This isn’t the result of early childhood indoctrination; they’re criminally insane. They are the worst people in the world.

    • Tor

      I don’t believe in aliens, but I do have a hankering for Bigfoot. And those of you who disagree will not burn in a lake of fire, but will become marshmallows at the eternal weenie roast.

  • C Peterson

    It seems to me that many theists (especially Christians) get angry at atheists because they have a pretty good idea that we’re the ones who are right. They’re in a mix of the denial and anger phases of grief for the loss of their belief system.

  • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

    David Barton, the Backdoor Redactor: http://on.fb.me/16Rv20F

  • ORAXX

    Given the fact Barton lacks the requisite education to teach history at the grade school level, he may as well be calling himself an astronaut as a historian.

  • unclemike

    If you imagine “Frank’s” comments here in the voice of HAL from 2001, they’re quite amusing. And creepy.

    More creepy, really.

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      “I’m afraid I can’t make an argument, Dave.”

    • islandbrewer

      “I will pray for you, Dave.”

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        Holee crap but that is a creepy one. You win.

    • EvolutionKills

      “They’re not real AI’s, Dave.”

  • Ryan Hite

    …… I can’t believe people still think this way…

  • Str3amer

    Owww shiiii, he broke my irony meter. Or was this the joke? Giving someone that uneducated some air time? Are they copying the Jersey Shore format?

  • Mick

    On the bright side: All the mainstream (non-Creationist) churches are telling their parishioners that David Barton is a liar, the theory of evolution is acceptable and atheists are not tools of Satan. That’s the good thing about the mainstreamers. They are noted for their honesty and they never, ever, lie; not even by omission.

  • Steve Greene

    Christians have been writing hateful things about atheists for centuries, even to this day.

    Finally, just in in the last several years, atheists have “woken up” and decided to speak back, letting the atheist-hating Christians know, ‘You are starting to really piss me off with your BS.”

    Christians say, ‘Why are you atheists so angry?’

    Oh, the hypocritical games Christians play.

  • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

    “Pseudo-Historian David Barton: ‘Atheists Get Angry Because They Do Know That God Exists’”

    I know it’s not your style, Hemant, but you’re being too polite when you refer to him as a “Pseudo-Historian”. He’s not a “Pseudo-Historian”. He’s a Liar. It should read: “Liar David Barton:….”

  • mhj2013

    Well, it’s worth pointing out that the Institute for Creation Research does NOT advocate forcing creation to be taught in schools:
    “It will be noted that no recommendation is made for political or legal pressure to force the teaching of creationism in the schools”
    (http://www.icr.org/article/48/)

    Also, from answersingenesis.org:
    “AiG is not a political action group, and we have never been directly involved in trying to get creation mandated in public schools.”
    (http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2013/05/27/aclu-needs-legislation-to-protect-its-anti-god-religion/)

    “Despite reports to the contrary, most creation groups do not endorse legislation that would force educators to teach creation.”
    (http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v3/n4/school-scare)

    Hmmmm… may have to rethink your conclusion that atheists get angry because creationists are “trying to push those views into public schools.” At least the larger mainstream creationist organizations are doing no such thing (I can’t make a statement for individuals or other smaller organizations).

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      Reread those statements and those websites. There are clues to their lies just in the tiny snippets you quote, let alone in what they actually do.

      • mhj2013

        The point is they do not want legislation forcing public schools to teach creation. They certainly want creation (alongside evolution) taught in schools by the free will of the educators, they just don’t want it to be forced. There are no “lies” in those quotes.


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