Why Are Atheists So Angry?

The video below, part of The Atheist Voice series, answers the question: Why are atheists so angry?

We’d love to hear your thoughts on the project — more videos will be posted soon — and we’d also appreciate your suggestions as to which questions we ought to tackle next!

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • Bitter Lizard

    Any religious person who says that atheists just “hate God” is either (a) being willfully disingenuous or (b) too stupid to figure out what words mean.

    Religion is a problem that infects society with countless social ills and it is entirely the fault of the religious. Every day we have to live with the consequences of something that is wrong with them, and instead of apologies we get berated with lies, nonsense and condemnation. The very fact that a religious person could ask us why we’re angry with a straight face is proof that religion destroys brains.

    Your fault, but our problem: that’s why we’re mad at you, theists.

  • http://religiouscomics.net/ Jeff P

    Many atheists hate the institution of the church. Many religious people can’t see the difference between hating church and hating God.

    • viaten

      Rather than “can’t see” I think it might be more a matter of “don’t want
      to see” or acknowledge the difference. A hated God can still be presumed and counted to be quite real to more people (God might not be so real to “deluded” atheists) and it might be they (want to) see atheists saying they “don’t believe in” God as just a way they’re trying to “get at” God. That a God might not exist as the explanation for why clear thinking, undeluded, atheists say they don’t believe in God is an idea some believers don’t dare entertain in any way. God, who can read minds, would notice that more than anything else believers do.

    • Jim Jones

      > Many religious people can’t see the difference between hating church and hating God.

      Churches exist and do great harm. Gods? Not so much.

  • http://lotharson.wordpress.com/ Lothars Sohn

    Hello, I’m also angry on fundamentalist beliefs.

    But I think there is really no reason for being angry against religious liberals, that is folks who just believe that God is love.

    Friendly greetings from Germany.

    Freundliche Grüsse aus Deutschland.

    Lothars Sohn – Lothar’s son
    http://lotharlorraine.wordpress.com

    • Heathen Mike

      Regarding “But I think there is really no reason for being angry against religious liberals, that is folks who just believe that God is love.”
      “Angry,” no. I agree with you. People who mean well but are simply misled are not necessarily going to learn anything constructive by being verbally attacked. However, we still certainly should point out to them any examples that arise of just how much the pervasiveness of religious assumptions negatively impacts the rest of us. I think when you live in a society in which much of Christianity amounts to just nominal lip-service, and policies are not routinely based on ridiculous superstition, it’s easier to fail to see just how discriminatory and hurtful religion can be. Modern Germany is quite different from the U.S. on that score, as the U.S. still remains heavily imbued with sentiments from its Puritan roots. We have countless truly shockingly ignorant people here who manage to steer hurtful, destructive policies that are based on their fundamentalist views. For example, science education in America is appallingly inadequate, and it is directly due to religious people’s views that science is evil because it is critical of anyone simply relying on “faith.”
      It’s really important for the liberal religious to come to understand the importance of separation of church and state, and to fight with us for that. To the extent the liberal religious continue to assume that things done in the name of religion are usually benign, those liberals are helping to perpetuate the problem.

      • Greg G.

        People who mean well but are simply misled are not necessarily going to learn anything constructive by being verbally attacked.

        But those misled people think that God agrees with them so much that any argument against God is a personal attack against them. They are fed “you will be persecuted for your belief” that any argument confirms to them they are being persecuted.

        • Bitter Lizard

          Right, even most “liberal believers” have such a sense of entitlement that anything other than privilege and deference from those who disagree is regarded as “persecution”. There’s no sense trying to bend ourselves to their deranged view of the world.

      • http://lotharson.wordpress.com/ Lothars Sohn

        Hello Mike Heiden (Heathen in German ;-) )

        I believe it is wrong to say that all the evils you quote are due to “Religion” in and of itself, for they stem from certain fundamentalist beliefs.

        As you probably well know, non-religious totalitarian ideologies have done quite a few damages in Germany, so I think the problem is more general.

        I know all too well the complain that religious moderates do nothing to counter fundamentalists.

        But that’s simply wrong.

        If you take a look at my blog, at the blog of Randal Rauser, Thom Star and many others, you’ll see we take a great amount of time criticizing fundamentalist dangerous ideas which are for us not only immoral but also profoundly blasphemous.

        Friendly greetings.

        Lothars Sohn – Lothar’s son

        http://lotharlorraine.wordpress.com

        • Aneres

          Holy crap did a German person just pull a Godwin?

          • busterggi

            Impopcicle! He means the godless Commies who ran East Germany. After all, Hitler was RC.

      • M.S.

        “However, we still certainly should point out to them any examples that arise of just how much the pervasiveness of religious assumptions negatively impacts the rest of us”

        So… you should…. proselytize? Yikes, the hypocrisy!

        Also…
        “For example, science education in America is appallingly inadequate, and it is directly due to religious people’s views that science is evil because it is critical of anyone simply relying on “faith.””
        I agree with you wholeheartedly science education in America is inadequate, but not sure religious views are the sole reason. Do you have some data to support this claim?

        • C.L. Honeycutt

          No one even implied that religious views are the sole reason. They are arguably the primary reason, given the (to put it mildly) abnormal amount of religiously motivated opposition to science and anti-intellectualism in the U.S. as compared to other Western nations. The two correlate extremely high. People routinely cite Evolutionary Theory as a prime motivation for taking their children out of school or teaching them that science classes are lies. Conservative Christians routinely revile higher learning as “elitist” or worse. The entire basis of opposition to Climate Change theory and the associated science came from religious assumptions rather than scientific ones.

    • Goape

      Servus Lothars (hope you don’t mind the Bavarian). Are you a religious liberal who believes that “God is love”? If so, why do you capitalise the word god; or, why is love not capitalised?

      I don’t get angry at liberal theists and I don’t think that many people do. I do get angry that liberal theists help to perpetuate the survival of credulism in modern society. I get angry that, because many liberal theists are such nice people whom I find myself incapable of lashing out at, religion is kept at a cozy societal standard—a standard of exemption from criticism.

      It’s not wrong to be angry that there are nice people in the world who fervently believe in, and let their lives be guided by, something that doesn’t exist. They are all too often unjustly hijacked of the wonders of the actual world and defrauded out of love and faith in their fellow humans.

      • http://lotharlorraine.wordpress.com/ Lothar Lorraine

        Hello Goape, Servus is actually Hungarian J

        I’m not German but a Frenchman from a German-speaking
        minority, but I currently live in Germany.

        I’m a Agnostic Christian, which means I don’t know if there
        is a God or not, but I do believe reductive materialism is false and HOPE in
        God’s existence.

        I explain on my blog why I am unimpressed by the popular
        arguments for atheism and your criticism there would be most welcome.

        I keep telling to conservative Christians that many of their
        beliefs, like God creating homosexuals to condemn them, or the existence of an
        eternal hell, are profoundly blasphemous.

        I fail to see how this is granting religious beliefs “a
        standard of exemption from criticism”.

        Whilst I understand you probably have had very bad
        experiences with some forms of Christianity, I know quite a few religious believers
        who are persuaded that God exists and are greatly appreciative of the wonders
        of the actual world and full of love and faith in their fellow humans.

        Friendly greetings.

        Lothars Sohn – Lothar’s son

        http://lotharlorraine.wordpress.com

        • Goape

          Servus is a salutation that originates from latin and is used throughout central and eastern Europe; it’s the informal salute in Bavarian-German.

          I welcome a dialogue with you, but I’m straining a bit to see how anything that you wrote addresses my response to you. Nothing you say here explains how you draw a conclusion of disagreement with me; you seem to be just telling me interesting and off topic things about yourself and then stating that I’m wrong. Furthermore, nothing that I wrote required your verbose statement that not every theist is unappreciative of mundane things.

  • Sal W

    In psychology, I think this disingenuous tactic is called projection. The religious (not all of them) who are angry at atheists for not seeing “the way” turn to projecting and accusing the atheists of the same anger. I promise you, I am not an angry atheist.

    • james

      That makes a great deal of sense – I’ve never felt more free and content than after I deconverted. The only time I ever get “angry” is when dealing with fundies who are offended by the fact I don’t believe as they believe.

      • nakedanthropologist

        I’ve experienced this as well.

  • Len

    Why Are Atheists So Angry?

    Why do we have to keep answering this question?

    • Tom

      Because it’s not really a question. Theists who ask it are seldom interested in getting an answer.

      • viaten

        Some theists seem to ask it as if they’d like it to be a rhetorical question, or a question that doesn’t have an good answer so as to make atheists seem unreasonable.

    • TheG

      Personally, that question is one of the reasons I’m so angry.

  • Drew M.

    Love this one!

  • blasphemous_kansan

    Personally I think that once one observes suffering and stops attributing it to the divine will of a sadistic supernatural being, then the natural reaction is to get angry. Or when one claims that they are speaking for a sadistic supernatural being, and they use that sway over the gullible to cause suffering, then the natural reaction is to get angry.

    If you’re angry, that means you care. I don’t think anger by itself is an indictment, and I’m damn proud of mine. It is one of the many things that fuels my desire for change.

    • Tainda

      I never thought of it that way! I always thought I just hated people but maybe it’s because I care too much.

    • Tobias2772

      Hate is not the opposite of love. Indifference is the opposite of love.

      • busterggi

        I couldn’t care less.

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        Yep, anger and love are very closely related.

  • Tainda

    My atheism has nothing to do with my anger. Stupid PEOPLE are the cause of my anger.

    In general though, I’m a pretty happy person!

  • CommentMaker

    Each group of people have their belief system. They find peace and contentment in what they believe. Each group reaches out to the other from time to time and offers their belief to others. That is natural. I want people to have what I have. Try talking to a Vegetarian. That’s annoying, but they have their belief system and more power to them. To me, there is no atheist/Christian debate. Atheist have to have material evidence and Christians cannot give it to them because God is a Spirit (John 4:24). End of debate. We can never prove that there is a God when the evidence is defined as material only. Atheist have no convincing evidence or Christianity would automatically cease. It is not convincing enough, especially when all you have is evolution as some kind of proof. My point here is, both sides need to stop the name calling and both will cease their anger.

    I recommend that atheist stop using the government to advance their agenda. Laws only build walls. I can sit with a Muslim and atheist and not have the least uncomfortable feeling. The beliefs will always be there on both sides. The NAACP has continued throwing out the race card in every situation and the racist fight will never subside. Until we become better people, we will never gain the respect of each other. Keep in mind, Christians live in peace. To be angry because people do not believe the way you do is a miserable life to live. With the majority of people believing in a deity in America, you must feel like you are in prison. I could not, and would not, live that way.

    BTW, I tried to respond to a recent comment from work and was blocked here because you are listed as a religion. Is that true?

    • Bitter Lizard

      Hello, CommentMaker. Tell me more about this strange fantasy world where Christians care about evidence and “live in peace”. It’s adorable the things children come up with.

      Oh look–it’s Jesus!

      • CommentMaker

        You call it fantasy and it is really called the spirit world. You know, it’s the stuff that cannot be seen with the naked eye. BTW, Jesus was a Jew (darker skin, black hair and dark brown eyes). This looks like some good atheist photoshop.

        • Bitter Lizard

          Nope, it’s a miracle, and you can’t refute it because it’s the physical manifestation of the spirit world. And if you look at Jesus’ face in that picture, it’s exactly how you describe it: dark skin, black hair, and certainly brown eyes. It’s Him. Why are you forsaking Him, CommentMaker? Didn’t you used to love Jesus?

          • Tainda

            If you can’t see it, you’re not a True Believer!

            • CommentMaker

              I see what is there, it is not Christ. No one knows what He looks like. Unless you have proof.

              • Bitter Lizard

                If you don’t know what Christ looks like, how can you know it’s not him? As for proof, I cannot give you materialistic proof because God is a spirit, remember?

              • blasphemous_kansan

                Commentmaker now: “No one knows what He (Jesus) looks like”.

                Commenmaker 30 minutes ago: “First, Jesus was not a good looking man.”

                So which is it? Does no one know what he looks like, or do you know what he looks like, and he’s ugly?

                • CommentMaker

                  There is no way anyone can determine the appearance of Jesus. I did give a verse in Isaiah that prophesied that He was not attractive or, rather, good looking. We are not flying the Shuttle here.

                • 3lemenope

                  We are not flying the Shuttle here.

                  Ain’t that the truth.

                • Bitter Lizard

                  He should put on his helmet just in case.

              • michael both

                If no-one knows what ‘he’ looks like, how can you therefore state with certainty it isn’t him?

          • CommentMaker

            I have good reason to forsake that image. Because it is a false image. First, Jesus was not a good looking man. Second, we are commanded not to make a likeness of anything in heaven. That is where you err not knowing the Bible.

            “For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him.” Isaiah 53:2

            “You shall not make for yourself a carved image–any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Exodus 20:4

            • 3lemenope

              First, Jesus was not a good looking man.

              Where exactly is that written?! (Oh, Isaiah, that book that wasn’t written about him. I see.)

              • CommentMaker

                I pasted the verse. Isaiah 53:2

                Try to reason it out. Go to http://www.blueletterbible.org and look up the verse in the KJV. It has a number next to it and gives you the Hebrew definition of the words that identify His looks. BTW, this is the prophecy of Jesus.

                • 3lemenope

                  Yeh, I saw the verse. But it can’t be about Jesus. Jesus isn’t claimed to be the arm of God (as 53:1 would have it) but a whole person thereof. 53:7 says that our mystery man did not cry out when being beaten up, but Jesus is recorded as having done so (a few times, in a few different ways). 53:9 makes our mystery man one of no violence, while Jesus kicked over tables, lashed with whips and drove the moneychangers from the temple. 53:10 declares our mystery man to have many blood descendants. Does your Jesus have blood descendants?

                • CommentMaker

                  You are not proving anything. You believe what you want to believe and it is incorrect.

                • 3lemenope

                  Demonstrate that I am in error, then. It shouldn’t be hard.

                • Tainda

                  LISTEN TO MY BIBLE VERSES! THEY ARE THE WORD OF GOD!

                  3lemenope posts examples.

                  YOU ARE NOT PROVING ANYTHING WITH YOUR BIBLE VERSES!

                • busterggi

                  Are you even vaguely aware that the bible was not written in chapters & verses? That system was developed in the 13th century to try to make the bible make sense. Orignally it didn’t even have spaces between words nor punctuation – all that was added much later due to controversies over what it actually said.

                • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

                  It has punctuation, at least the OT does. There’s not a ton, but there’s definite words and also phrase and sentence markers (the equivalent of periods and commas). No verse markers though, that’s true for sure!

                  <– has seen and read from Torah scrolls. They haven't changed in well over 1,000 years, because Orthodox Jews are incredibly- how do I put this politely- attentive to detail. The oldest known Torah scroll (~800 years old) looks pretty much identical to Torahs made today.

                • busterggi

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew_orthography

                  Still no chapters nor verses nor vowels.

            • Tainda

              You think that butthole is good looking?

              • Bitter Lizard

                Seriously, this guy says some things that are so ridiculous that I really can’t improve on them for comedic value.

            • Bitter Lizard

              You seriously think the Jesus in this picture is too good-looking to be real Jesus?

              • Tainda

                And there goes my coffee!

            • busterggi

              Oh good, bible quotes – yeah, those reeeeaaallllly impress us.

            • Kodie

              It appeared on a dog’s ass. Nobody made that.

              • 3lemenope

                You would deny the holy work done by the dog’s parents?!

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              First, Jesus was not a good looking man.

              I… I don’t even understand what picture you think you are seeing.

          • K. C. Sunbeam

            This phenomenon is known as “matrixing”, wherein the brain creates an organized pattern, it is quite natural.
            And most of the phenomenon that Christian believers consider supernatural does not involve matrixing. And certainly the focus is not on dog butts, which the photographer seems to have an interest in, in order to ridicule Christianity.
            Again, Jesus had light skin.
            My website: http://shockedbytruth.jimdo.com

        • K. C. Sunbeam

          Actually, the only historical record of Jesus’ description was that He was light-skinned with blonde hair and blue eyes. We shouldn’t have to apologize for that. (a fellow believer)

          • Tainda

            Bull and shit

            IF there was an historical Jesus person, and there could have been but he would have been like David Koresh (looney tunes) NOT a mythical being, he would have been middle eastern and definitely NOT blonde and blue eyed.

    • Heidi McClure

      Hemant mentioned Greta Christina in his video. Perhaps you should watch her speak on the subject. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUI_ML1qkQE

      And just a thought, here. Have you ever considered the possibility that, for example, the NAACP “has continued throwing out the race card in every situation” because that is the actual point of them? Pointing out racism is pretty much their raison d’etre, if you will. What would you have them do? Shut up and sing campfire songs? They’re a civil rights organization. When they see racism, they point it out.

      And, if you can consider the possibility that a civil rights organization should actually be pointing out injustice, then maybe you can also consider that other groups you don’t belong to might actually have valid points, as well.

      • CommentMaker

        I watched about 6 minutes of Greta. I have heard much of the same comments, but it is all about attacking religion. Our religion does not have messages or lessons totally dedicated to how to combat atheism. We would be angry, too. Our mission is a focus on God. What will atheist fight for when all religion is out of the government view? You will attack every vote a politician makes because of his religious affiliation. Like the NAACP, it will never end.

        I agree that we need to speak out, sometimes. I agree that their are injustices. I am 59 and was laid off. You think there is age discrimination out there? Do I scream “discrimination” to get a job? I’m Protestant, if my boss is Catholic I will never tell him. I had three (3) Catholic bosses and my work atmosphere was always horrible. Yes, there is discrimination out there and it is bad, but, fighting it makes you look bad and the affect may have a bad effect on you. Just live in peace with all men. America is not that bad a place to live, yet.

        • Heidi McClure

          You watched six minutes of a 48 minute talk, and you know that you’ve heard everything she has to say, already? Really? Then I’m pretty sure I can, after reading what you’ve written thus far, categorically say that I’ve heard everything *you* have to say before. Because thus far, that is the case.

          Here’s the thing. You say “America is not that bad a place to live, yet.” You need to qualify that with “for me,” because that is your white Protestant privilege showing. How would you feel about Sharia law being adopted in America? Would you be ok with that? Would you fight it or peacefully accept it? Because when, say, Rick Perry or Rick Santorum makes laws based on Biblical teachings (e.g. anti-gay marriage laws), that is the Protestant version of forcing Sharia law onto America.

          • CommentMaker

            You’ve made some points. Sharia law is what you are fighting for and don’t know it, yet. By making everything political, you allow Muslims to work their laws into our laws. Muslims are a political religion and are already using our freedom laws against America. Gays will not stop until they are kissing and having sex in public. Why? That is their flaunt just like the flaunt of atheist is to force Christianity out of the public forum. Christmas is effected by removing the manger scene from the courthouse. You should want Christianity in the courthouse because there is justice and mercy at the same time. No one can live peacefully with only justice.

            • allein

              What is wrong with kissing in public? Straight people do it all the time.

            • 3lemenope

              By making everything political, you allow Muslims to work their laws into our laws. Muslims are a political religion and are already using our freedom laws against America.

              I’m sure you have examples of this phenomenon that you’re willing to share.

              Gays will not stop until they are kissing and having sex in public. Why? That is their flaunt just like the flaunt of atheist is to force Christianity out of the public forum.

              Kissing in public?! Well, I never! The sex thing, on the other hand, is just bizarre. I’m sure you also have a source for that claim. Where are gays trying to change the laws so they may have sex in public?

              Christmas is effected by removing the manger scene from the courthouse.

              I think you meant “affected” and, how, exactly? If the manger scene is at a church instead of the courthouse, will Santa lose his bearings or something?

              You should want Christianity in the courthouse because there is justice and mercy at the same time. No one can live peacefully with only justice.

              So, why then were the systems of justice run under the purview of Christendom some of the most hideous, brutal systems the world has seen in the past several centuries? Why were they so easily and remarkably improved by removing the Christianity and adding humanism?

              • CommentMaker

                One thing atheist want is evidence to make decisions on. That is after the fact. Anyone can figure out that you need a new gate when the cows get out. It takes wisdom to know how to address the future. That is why I would not be an atheist because they wait till they have evidence. Sad.

                • Vanadise

                  Did you really just say that you *want* to be the kind of person who makes snap judgments instead of basing your decisions on evidence? Really?

                  I mean, maybe if the cows got out, you should figure out why they got out before you go replacing your gate. Maybe you just forgot to latch it?

                • Kodie

                  We already have evidence that religious people are sociopathic liars who assume power they are not entitled to. You don’t seem to know what secular means.

                • 3lemenope

                  Better to go with what your gut tells you. If the doctor says bacteria, but your gut says demons…

            • Kodie

              You are paranoid that if Christianity is not in charge, then Islam will take over. What do you base this fear on?

              • CommentMaker

                Nothing, just wait and see. Then it will all be over and you will have to fight Muslims in stead of Christians. Good luck!

                • Kodie

                  Nothing, you are just making shit up. Meanwhile, Christians are already assuming more power than they are entitled to, and the damage it causes. We can see that. You are closer to Sharia Law than I am. What makes you think atheists are on the side of Muslims, nothing – you are just paranoid and making shit up, or you think without Christianity in power, another religion will take advantage of the vacancy. Why is a Christian theocracy better?

              • phantomreader42

                The sworn testimony of the voices in his head. That’s all he has to back up any of his paranoid delusions.
                And he would be absolutely overjoyed to see Sharia law imposed on this country, as long as it were called “biblical”.

            • phantomreader42

              Christianity is neither just nor merciful. You’re living proof of that.

            • Goape

              “By making everything political, you allow Muslims to work their laws into our laws.”

              No. By coercing the attachment of religion to politics in the US, christian fundamentalists are tearing a hole in the constitution that serves them in the short term, but other religions will be free to employ this precedent in the future. Every US citizen, regardless of faith or lack thereof, is better off with a separation of church and state.

        • allein

          “yet”?

          So at what point is it worth actually fighting these things?

    • blasphemous_kansan

      “They find peace and contentment in what they believe. ”

      The fact that there are no gods does not bring me peace or contentment. Finding truth isn’t about either of these small, human, emotions. If you think it is, then you’ve already lost.

      “Atheist have no convincing evidence or Christianity would automatically cease.”

      No. People continue to believe silly things, long after it is concluded that no evidence supports them. An interesting consequence of your chain of logic here is that Christianity must have no convincing evidence or else all other religions would automatically cease.

      “With the majority of people believing in a deity in America, you must feel like you are in prison. I could not, and would not, live that way.”

      Your desire and ability to avoid a life of mental discomfort is noted. The rest of us will be down here in the shit dealing with life’s little unpleasantries and trying to make the world a better place.

      “BTW, I tried to respond to a recent comment from work and was blocked here because you are listed as a religion. Is that true?”

      This blog author is not responsible for your employer’s internet security policies. Duh.

      • CommentMaker

        “The fact that there is no gods….”
        You just don’t have proof. That does not confirm that there is no God.

        “..trying to make the world a better place.”
        Jesus made His world (where He lived in His time) a better place. He had thousands thronging Him everywhere He went. I do not see any atheist able to accomplish that small feat. Billy Graham did a good job, as well.

        • 3lemenope

          Jesus made His world (where He lived in His time) a better place.

          How so?

          • CommentMaker

            Read the Gospels. Of course, one would have to believe and you don’t. My answers would be a waste of my time.

            • 3lemenope

              Read the Gospels.

              It would almost be cruel to place a bet on which one of us has read it more.

              Of course, one would have to believe and you don’t.

              So, wait. In order to read the Bible, you have to believe, but in order to believe, you have to read the Bible. Huh.

              My answers would be a waste of my time.

              Then you straight-up suck at this whole “good news” thing. Seriously, you’re not even being pushed that hard and you’re already in full retreat. I would have thought that if what you had on offer was the truth that it would be a touch more resilient than this.

            • Timmah

              NOW you are getting it! Yes the Bible is not proof or evidence, it is the book making the claims. Outside evidence is required to verify that it’s claims are true.

            • Derrik Pates

              The Gospels, you say? So, why were Mary and Joseph in Jerusalem? When Jesus died, what did he say? Who was there when he was supposedly raised from the dead?

              I only ask because none of the Gospels (of which at least two weren’t even original works, but cribbed from the one traditionally known as “The Gospel of Mark”) can seem to agree on these, or many other things. They can only seem to agree on a few broad strokes.

              By the way, who wrote them? We know it wasn’t the people whose names they bear.

        • blasphemous_kansan

          “You just don’t have proof.”

          You are the one claiming a god exists. As you said above, the universe functions as if there are no gods, so you are the one who needs proof, not I. You admit this above, so why are you backing away from it now?

          “Jesus made His world (where He lived in His time) a better place..”

          I don’t understand….So Jesus made the world a better place, so therefore you don’t need to be bothered with it?

          ” I do not see any atheist able to accomplish that small feat. (thronging Him everywhere)”.

          That’s because a throng of people does not make one correct. Truth is not derived from who can garner the largest uncritical-thinking mob.

        • busterggi

          Yet none of those supposed thousands saw fit to leave any comtemporary record of his existance nor did they bother with stopping his execution (assuming he even existed to be executed).

          • CommentMaker

            They did, but it has not been discovered yet or it dissolved over time. Sorry for you.

            • 3lemenope

              Sorry for you.

              I’m feeling an awful lot of lukewarm coming off of this comment here. It’s almost like you don’t want to convert us, or something.

            • busterggi

              Bwahaha!

            • allein

              Then how do you know they did?

        • C.L. Honeycutt

          Those thousands… would those be the walking dead that nobody noticed?

          • 3lemenope

            Matthew 27. Gets me every time. Jerusalem Zombie Apocalypse!

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              It’d actually make a pretty awesome B movie, wouldn’t it?

    • allein

      Atheist[s] have to have material evidence and Christians cannot give it to them because God is a Spirit

      This is meaningless. What does it mean to be a “spirit” and why does that mean there can be no evidence of its existence? If it has a physical effect on the world, there must be some physical property to it.

      There is plenty in religion to be angry at that has nothing to do with “name calling.” We don’t get angry simply because you believe something different.

      I recommend that atheist[s] stop using the government to advance their agenda.

      You first.

      • CommentMaker

        All we do is ask to set up a manger scene for Christmas and it is welcomed with open arms. Then, atheist force their hand and make good future friends. Sounds like a plan to me.

        • allein

          If that was ‘all’ you (the collective “you”) were doing, most of us wouldn’t have a problem with you.

        • busterggi

          Set up your manger scene at home or at your church and we have no problem – sounds like a Constitutional plan to me.

        • Kodie

          “Just let us do what we want in peace and you will have nothing to be angry about!”

          I think there ought to be…. no, wait! There is a law!

          All you are asking is that your dog can shit in my yard whenever he wants, and when I get angry about that, it spoils your mood.

          Fuck you!

          • CommentMaker

            You are a hyper angry terrorist atheist! Leave the law alone and try to work to get along with others. Didn’t your mother teach you to get along with others? You have an anger problem and live in misery. I would not want to be like you in any form. Your face will soon take on features of your anger. I feel sorry for anyone you shack up with or marry. But, maybe not.

            • Vanadise

              Do you know what the word “terrorist” means, or is that just what you call somebody when they say something you don’t like?

            • Tainda

              Damnit, now YOU’RE making me spit my coffee out.

              THAT’S IT! I’m switching to water, it’s easier to clean up.

              • C.L. Honeycutt

                Mio and similar drink mixes. Adds a little flavor, not very sticky. Trouble is, you have to experiment to find one that doesn’t get old quick.

                *takes note to stop investing in Keyboard Futures*

                • Tainda

                  I did Mio for awhile but you’re right, gets boring fast. I’m exclusive to lemon juice now lol

                • allein

                  I like a splash of cherry juice (real juice, not syrup).

            • 3lemenope

              You are a hyper angry terrorist atheist!

              With bells on!

            • Kodie

              You’re already ugly.

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              Your excellent Witnessing for Christ is noted. Your love for Him shines like the sun in your words.

            • C.L. Honeycutt
            • Mario Strada

              Wow, I love this post. The christian love is coming out of every pore.

              Just recently I was challenged to find a post by a Christian that was “unChrist like” and for the life of me I could not find one.
              I am copying this and putting it in my “read later” bin. It has everything. Hate, disdain, false sense of superiority, personal attacks, lovely.

              You are truly a despicable person.

    • JET

      You’re equating god-belief with being a vegetarian? My daughter is a veggie and I am not. She has never threatened me physically or emotionally for my carnivorous ways. She’s not a member of the right wing Tofu Party attempting to force her food choices on everyone through legislation. She doesn’t deny meat-eaters civil rights or insist that her vegetarian cookbook be used as a text in schools. I give her the same courtesies. We live in peace.

      • allein

        I have a vegan coworker. He doesn’t care what the rest of us eat.

        At my old regular Starbucks (before I moved), there is an employee who is vegan. I find it amusing that he works in a place that goes through literally gallons of dairy products every day. He apparently doesn’t have too much of a problem with that, either.

    • Edmond

      The only “agenda” that atheists are trying to advance in government, is the attempt to keep government neutral on the matter of religion, so that it can serve all citizens fairly and equally, regardless of their personal beliefs. I’m not sure why that’s something you’d recommend that we stop.

      We can “sit with” Muslims and Christians as well. No one is having an issue over who they sit with. We have issues when local governments try to appoint their school teachers and principles to be spiritual leaders of the children in their care. We have issues when they try to teach religious doctrine as if it were science. We have issues when judges give lenient sentences to criminals who proclaim religiosity. We have issues when churches use public and government funds to promote religious subjects. We have issues when legislature is passed reflecting scriptural commandments. Christians may try to live “in peace”, but they don’t always try to live with the fairness and equality of all citizens in mind.

      We are not “angry because people do not believe” as we do. Everyone is free to believe as they wish. We want that freedom for ourselves, so why would we disparage it in others? But we DO get angry when believers try to hijack our shared system of government, and put it to use enforcing their personal favorite religious doctrines.

      This is not an “agenda”. It is a model of fairness which benefits everyone, INCLUDING religious people.

      • CommentMaker

        Pray tell me why President Obama wanted NASA to create relations with Muslims since it is obvious they are a kind and loving religion? Why is the government in religion there? It is only the Muslim terrorist who are bad, aren’t they?

        • 3lemenope

          Pray tell me why President Obama wanted NASA to create relations with Muslims…

          …are you under the impression that Muslims are a sort of extraterrestrial life-form? o.O

          • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

            Well played, sir(?), well played.

          • Tainda

            He/she is definitely saying they aren’t humans.

          • Bdole

            Well come on, humans don’t have the technology to fly around on rugs.

            • Bdole

              That’s alien tech.

        • Edmond

          Here’s an idea… ask Obama or NASA. I’m not them. The former head of NASA thought this was a bad idea. Obama is not some “god” to us that we never disagree with. He is as capable of mixing religion and government as anyone, and we will call him out on it when he does. However, considering the trouble we have in this world due to our current relationships with most Muslim nations, it might not be a bad idea to pursue SOME outreach in an effort to promote peace. I’m not so sure that encouraging our space-exploration agency to strive for international cooperation counts as promoting religion.
          Notice, though, that Obama’s directive to NASA was in making outreach to Muslim NATIONS, not to the religion itself, or to individual representatives of the religion. As a nation, we need to have good relations with other nations, regardless of what their majority (or official state) religion is.
          I don’t get the impression that you made any effort to understand what I said in my previous post, or that you have any interest in understanding our side of this issue. Atheists are worried about ANY terrorists, whether they are Muslim, Christian, or other. We are worried about the laws in our country being written with only Christians in mind. We have many issues that we feel we must be vigilant about, otherwise religious people would be very happy to tailor this country to their needs, and no one else’s. I’m sorry you think that’s an “agenda”, when we’re really just looking out for YOUR best interests. Which religions or denominations would you allow to make laws for you?

  • Know

    How can I be angry something that does not exist? I am angry at people who preach lies to people to take their money, time and self worth.

  • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

    Backed up by the evidence, here is why atheists are so angry with God: http://www.examiner.com/article/atheism-101-are-atheists-angry-with-god

  • kelemi

    I find most atheists to be “live and let live”. I understand why they don’t want religion forced on them. I agree with it. What I don’t like are the militant atheists who are to atheism, what Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity. These people are hurting atheism as much as people who want laws based on their religion.

    • 3lemenope

      What I don’t like are the militant atheists who are to atheism, what Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity.

      I’m sure, for the purposes of this analogy, you have someone specific in mind…?

      • Timmah

        Exactly, most Christians can’t stand those people either and think they are a vile hate group. I can’t think of a single athiest who even comes close to being in same category as them. Certianly there are a few that are more agressive and in your face, but nothing like those people.

        • kelemi

          One resorts to bullying on the comment pages. As I said, most atheists generally are Live and let live.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            Just to clarify, when you say “the comment pages”, are you referring to this blog?

            And as others have noted, no, the worst atheist commenters I’ve ever seen have not even been close to WBC. They can’t be close, because they do not and cannot do or say the same things, even on a small scale. Christianity and atheism simply do not work the same way.

            • kelemi

              Not in beliefs but style.

              • C.L. Honeycutt

                Are they seeking out Christians who have done and said nothing harmful, who do not display publicly bigoted attitudes, and who are in their own online “spaces”, in order to hurl invectives at them and provoke them for the sake of an ideology that isn’t significantly different* from that which dominates most of the nation? Do they do this, not based on what those Christians do and who they enable, but based on what they are?

                *Because really, if WBC didn’t criticize soldiers, they’d actually have built up a lot of support from the religious for their “bravery”.

          • Timmah

            Getting teased on the internet about your faith is not even remotely in the same ballpark as having a group of people show up at a dead soldiers funeral gleefuly proclaiming that he had it coming.

            • kelemi

              Teased is one thing, bullying is another. But it is relative, as you note.

              • C.L. Honeycutt

                I’m not absolutely sure I agree that an adult (emotionally, not as considered by age) can be bullied online in a way short of harassment or stalking.

                • Bitter Lizard

                  I don’t consider myself “bullied” when a Christian talks shit to me on the Internet, but then again, I’m not part of a hegemonic religious group that is obsessed with making itself out to be marginalized every time its hegemony is questioned.

                  Or maybe it’s just that I don’t feel intellectually intimidated by Christians, while it isn’t the case the other way.

      • kelemi

        I do. There are 2 who resort to bullying tactics when answering comments. They also call Christians monkeys. What they don’t seem to understand is that If they made the remark about Jews they’d be anti-Semitic and if they made it about people outside of their race, they’d be racist.

        • 3lemenope

          I’m sorry, but you were making an analogy to WESTBORO BAPTIST and the best you’ve got is, roughly, “called people monkeys”.

          Most inapt analogy ever. It’s roughly like saying that all people who have voiced a racist thought are the same as the Ku Klux Klan.

          • kelemi

            Sorry. I can’t think of the same analogy, other than the fact that I find some atheists as obnoxious and repulsive as the Westboro Baptists, but not necessarily for the same reason.

            The baptists I have in mind hate gays and the militant atheists hate Christians.

            • 3lemenope

              The baptists I have in mind hate gays and the militant atheists hate Christians.

              The big difference here being that in many places in this country, a gay person has a decent amount to fear for their personal safety from such gay-bashers.

              Is there anywhere in America where a Christian would reasonably fear for life or limb merely for being Christian?

              • M.S.

                So solely because someone is not in danger, it is okay to hate them?

                • 3lemenope

                  So solely because someone is not in danger, it is okay to hate them?

                  Did I say that?

                • M.S.

                  You specified the “big difference” between some Baptists hating gays and some atheists hating Christians is based on the “amount to fear for their personal safety”
                  So, yeah.. you clearly implied that its more okay to hate someone because they are not in danger.

                • 3lemenope

                  So, yeah.. you clearly implied that its more okay to hate someone because they are not in danger.

                  That’s an odd way of putting it, but I do firmly believe that it is less bad to merely hate someone than to hate them AND try to kill them.

                  Which is not to say that to hate someone for what they are is good. Only that to try to hurt them is worse.

                • M.S.

                  Thanks for clearing that up… I agree its better to hate someone – and withhold action – than it is to hate someone and act upon such hate.
                  But unfortunately in many cases, the two – hate and action – cannot be separated. And we are seeing in Egypt now that Christians are not immune from persecution or hate crime.

                • 3lemenope

                  Well, sure. Whenever a coherent group finds itself in the minority position in a society, they are vulnerable to the depredations of the majority; they are usually the first to be blamed when things aren’t going well, and the people in the majority spend an inordinate amount of time and effort trying to rob them of social legitimacy. In Egypt, the majority are Muslim and a prominent minority are Christians, so during periods of unrest (such as now) Christians really take it in the teeth.

              • kelemi

                The answer to your question is no for Christians, and should also be no for gays.

                • 3lemenope

                  “Should” is a long, long way away from “is”.

        • allein

          In the comments here?

        • Bitter Lizard

          If you want to assert that forming judgments about someone based on their beliefs is the same as discriminating against gays, racial minorities, etc. then fine. Just keep in mind that by your own definition this would include you. “God hates fags” is also a belief, after all.

          The bottom line is that everyone judges people based on their beliefs, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that fact. Beliefs can be good or bad and thus are not value-neutral things like sexual orientation or race.

          • kelemi

            I do not believe that God hates gays, and am critical of anyone who does. However as a libertarian, if a person wants to believe that being gay is sinful, they’re free to do so as long as I don’t have to.

            • Bitter Lizard

              Nobody here is denying the legal right of anyone to believe anything, so I don’t know what you’re responding to, but it isn’t what I said.

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              That’s not a Libertarian view, though. It’s a Constitutional view.

              • kelemi

                Actually it is Libertarian. We support freedom of religion as long as nobody else is harmed. And we do support the constitution.

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  Sorry, that came out wrong. It’s not a specifically Libertarian view. Virtually everyone espouses it (even the people who don’t believe it, as you’ve seen.)

                  On the state level, I’m a Libertarian. They’re the only group in my state with even a shot at eventually dislodging the corruption of the major parties… which is why said parties enacted legislation designed to keep them off the ballots.

    • CommentMaker

      Hum…. It seems that there is a thread of agreement here for me.

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        You’d be more credible if not for your obvious belief that those here are those supposed “militant atheists”.

        • CommentMaker

          Experience is proof. You are working on #1 militant.

          • 3lemenope

            You hear that, C.L.? You’re getting mouthy.

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              I’m a right uppity shit, ain’t I?

              • JET

                Congrats!

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  There’s a professional trophy-making place like a mile from my house BRB

          • Esquilax

            Are you working from that discontinued dictionary that lists the definition of militant as “disagreeing with you?”

            • CommentMaker

              Now you give a “discounted dictionary” with no name or page number as FACTS. All atheist want facts and you are a prime example of atheist who provide only generalities. How can you expect us to communicate if you act like a typical atheist and are hypocritical to the team? You want facts from Christians, but you give no facts. That’s not football. You have to play by the rules, even if they are your rules.

              • C.L. Honeycutt

                Look, I know it probably got you out of laundry duty in County, but quit talkin’ gibberish, old man!

                …save those cheese-licking lips for BETTER things…

              • Default Ideology

                CommentMaker, I can’t help but wonder if you are here taking all this abuse because deep down inside you know your faith is crumbling.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            Says the guy who strode in lying and attacking people here, and who edited his first comment after replies to make himself look less bad.

            If only you were bright enough to know what words mean, or to realize that your narcissism does not make your disingenuousness undetectable, but only prevents you from spotting the holes in your stories or being humble enough to absorb the many, many corrections you’ve been given on just this one site ever since you went Full Fundy a few weeks ago and decided to look for victims.

            I gotta wonder about that four-year lapse. Did you just get out of County, maybe?

            • CommentMaker

              You seem to want to discredit Christianity with lies. That is the only way to do it and you are good at it. I do not buy it and expect you to act civil in all correspondence. Not!

              • C.L. Honeycutt

                You seem to want to discredit Christianity with lies.

                Citation needed, Boobhat Ears.

                You had a dozen people explain to you exactly how you are NOT being civil, and ignored it or made up things. Notice how they all stopped bothering with you after a while? Hosea 8:7, read it, deal with it. All of it’s appropriate, though, since you’ve broken your covenant with the Redeemer. The fruit of your behavior is naught but ash.

                Now slip me that naked tail, Sinner! I KNOW you learned how to work it in the slammer.

          • Bitter Lizard

            Where do I rank, CommentMaker?

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              Screw you, Newbie, you’re talented and productive, but you gotta put in your hours! Commentmaker and his round, luscious, velvety ears and sexy, scheming rat face are mine!

              • Bitter Lizard

                Ooh, a love triangle. It’s on!

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  A triangle? More like a figure eight. *traces CM’s lust-inducing ears*

                • allein

                  Speaking of ears, and totally OT, but is that your dog in your avatar?

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  It’s a coyote pup lying on snowy rocks. Soooo adorable.

                  I used to post here under “Coyotenose”, but DISQUS kept not cooperating to the point of pretending it was posting my comments when it was not, so eventually I gave up and linked it to Facebook because that at least mostly worked. :P

                • allein

                  Ah, ok! I remember you as Coyotenose. :)
                  He is cute.
                  I need a dog.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            Likewise, you’d actually have more credibility if you weren’t so desperate as to support the troll above who just repeats himself over and over. Pretty sad, Mousey. Pretty sad.

          • K. C. Sunbeam

            I’m a Christian believer who has posted on numerous threads in this blog; I don’t see any atheists here as being militant. Hemant Mehta, who owns the blog, is gracious enough to allow Christians and other believers to post whatever we want.
            I sometimes see very angry comments by atheists, but I’ve typed numerous hostile e-mails through the Internet too.
            I hope we all just chalk it up to the other person venting, forgive and forget, and life goes on

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              D’awww, you’re just trying to butter us up!

            • Bitter Lizard

              I guess we just have to try harder. Thanks for the constructive criticism!

              • K. C. Sunbeam

                Oooops! Sorry Bitter Lizard. The blog owner has been erasing some of my posts. But he keeps my post that compliments him, and keeps the post that superimposes Jesus’ face on a dog’s butt.
                My posts couldn’t possibly be that offensive. He’s a sick young man, who I feel wouldn’t discuss these things with me face to face. (I’m not that far from Chicago this week).

    • Jim Jones

      > What I don’t like are the militant atheists

      And who are they? The people who speak out like, but not as viciously like, theists?

  • SeekerLancer

    I don’t really know how we can be any clearer about what we’re angry about.

    • Bitter Lizard

      I guess the believers are just complaining that we don’t criticize religion loudly or harshly or frequently enough. We can work on that.

  • JA

    Atheists are angry because religious people feel entitled to special treatment for some reason.

  • Frank

    Atheists are angry because they know deep down there is nothing they can do to stop the truth of God. Nothing.

    • blasphemous_kansan

      And you troll here because you’re happy?
      Count me out.

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      It’s not too late for you to discover the Love of Christ and stop your sinful lying, Frank. You can always come back. Remember the Prodigal Son! I know how it must be for you, lying alone at night, doubting that He even exists, hands clasped closely under your sheets and working as you imagine Him fervently, wishing He would come and enter you. You’re not alone, Frank! He’s there if you want Him, ready to embrace you and lift you from behind, when you least expect him. And you’ll be surprised when He comes, oh yes, yes, you will!

      • Frank

        Ok I will add false accusations to the atheist handbook. After all the truth doesn’t work for you.

        • C.L. Honeycutt

          After all the truth doesn’t work for you.

          Oh, so that’s why you think you have to lie, because we won’t believe the truth? It’s okay, Frank. You don’t have to lie and pretend that you accept Christ. We’re here for you. I’ll help you return to Love.

          • Frank

            See my above statement on 3rd grade tactics.

            Wow just wow! I couldn’t write a better script. Very well done!

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              I thank God every day for my writing skills, you’re right. But why don’t you thank Him for your own gifts, Frank? Why do you hate the love He wants you to give to others, and love the lies and sin and slander instead? Why do you squander so much joy?

      • nakedanthropologist

        Damnit CL! You made snort coffee up my nose at work!

        • Frank

          The childish amusing the childish.

          • blasphemous_kansan

            “The childish amusing the childish.”

            I thought the same thing when you and commentmaker started masturbating each other’s egos. Are we going to be best friends again today, Frank?

            • C.L. Honeycutt

              Somebody’s gotta snuggle up to him. I’m busy with Commentmaker, and I don’t go in for sinful polygamy like Frank, who rejects Christ.

              • blasphemous_kansan

                I like cuddling with Frank. I consider it a public service to keep him chasing his tail as long as possible.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            At least we amuse one another. It’s what God intended, a perfect union of platonic love and respect. Not like that sin you cling to in the dark.

          • RobMcCune

            So you’re amusing yourself?

    • CommentMaker

      That may be true, Frank. I am a Christian and have found that atheist, though they claim to be friendly, have a bitter hatred toward Christians. We cannot prove anything to them because they need Jesus here to do tricks for them so they can mock Him. They will not believe no matter what.

      • 3lemenope

        So, is this an exercise in Schadenfreude for you, or what?

        • C.L. Honeycutt

          Well, projection, really. Is there such a thing as self-Schadenfreude?

      • Frank

        Its quite amazing how little intelligence, rationality and self awareness they display.

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        Supporting a troll who repeats himself over and over? Thanks for admitting that you know you have nothing.

        If you actually believed in Christ, you wouldn’t be lying to prop yourself up, let alone going out and searching for reasons to lie. Is that what got you in the clink, Mousey?

      • Tainda

        I don’t hate christians at all, they’re just really bad in bed…

        • CassandraJK

          Word. Godless heathens and pagans are waaay better.

          • Tainda

            LOVE me some pagans!

        • Bdole

          Heh, not all of them. ;)

  • Amanda Hernandez

    I always thought it was because most Atheists were brought up religiously. Maybe their family shunned them, maybe they hate themselves a little for having been a believer, maybe they saw too much bullcrap in their church leaders, etc. My parents are Agnostic so I was always kept out of the religious loop, often to the point where I’m embarrassed about what I don’t know. For example, I didn’t what Mormons were until I met my husband. I said ‘happy holidays’ for the longest time thinking it was just the lazy way of saying ‘merry Christmas and have a happy New Year’. When Ash Wednesday came around I would wonder if some band was in town. The list, much to my chagrin, goes on.

    Honestly religion seems so alien to me that my first reaction is to observe rather than get angry.

    • CommentMaker

      Enjoy the holidays with your children.

      • blasphemous_kansan

        What was the point of this? Amanda’s comment was as benign as possible. You are a nasty troll.

        **EDIT: But I do thank you for coming here and showing us all the true nature of your faith. Looks like you choose to execute that whole “Love thy neighbor” thing on a case-by-case basis. Jesus would be proud.

  • Monika Jankun-Kelly

    Why are we angry? Because we’re hated, discriminated against, face reprisal at school and at work, all for having a foundation of reason and compassion instead of the supernatural. I get particularly angry when otherwise decent likable Christians, friends of mine, are SO DAMN BLIND to their own privilege and just clueless about why a work supervisor proselytizing is wrong, for example.

    • allein

      Oddly enough, the place I am most likely to discuss religion (or lack thereof), outside of commenting here, is at work. There are several non-religious types in my department. My friend and I, and a guy from another department, were just talking about it at lunch this afternoon.

  • Anna

    I wouldn’t really describe myself as angry about religion in general. I save my anger for cases of believers using their religion to do or promote horrible things. Overall, I’m more resigned and quietly disappointed about American society and its penchant for supernaturalism.

  • SJH

    It sounds like you are trying very hard to justify your anger. Anger is often justified especially when you see a true injustice. Being disrespectful is never justified. The anger is not really the issue even though the “angry atheist” title would imply that it is. It is how we react to our anger. I don’t think that the Christian community cares if you are angry at a perceived injustice. What they are referring to when they speak of the angry atheist is the fact that many atheists react violently (verbally not physically) due to this anger. I don’t think that anyone will care that Hemant is angry about certain issues even if they disagree with those issues. The reason they won’t care is because he chose to express them in a respectful way. (Thank you for that, Hemant) On the other hand you have atheists who get mad and are disrespectful. This is far to common. And, yes I understand that there are those Christians that act the same way but that doesn’t excuse any of it from either side.

  • SJH

    You comment that Christians often see themselves as better because they believe in God. I hope you are not suggesting that atheists do not have the same inclination. The fact that you compare religious beliefs to not believing in unicorns, FSMs and the like is basically a subtle statement that your beliefs are just as silly. You are basically saying that your beliefs are superior to mine because I am childish. Treat my beliefs with the respect that they deserve. Admit that you can be a sophisticated, intelligent, sane person and believe in God and that it is a perfectly legitimate belief. I wonder how many atheists can actually do that.

    • Bitter Lizard

      When your beliefs are called childish they are being treated with exactly the respect they deserve. Fact is, there is no more evidence for your God than there is for unicorns, and that is the point atheists are making. Whining that everybody pretends otherwise just because you want them to doesn’t change reality.

      You know what the problem is here? You feel entitled to something you haven’t earned.

      • SJH

        Again, as I said before, this is the “angry atheist” response I was talking about. Even if my beliefs were childish, why speak that way?
        If my beliefs are childish then why not elevate the conversation?
        As it is, my beliefs are not childish. A unicorn is a fairy tale. God is a philosophical possibility. There is ample evidence that points to his existence. If you are looking for 100% proof then I cannot give that to you but there is ample evidence which makes it a legitimate belief.
        Everyone should be able to see the difference between the two beliefs; unicorn and God. If they cannot then I question how honest they are being with themselves.

        • Bitter Lizard

          Even if my beliefs were childish, why speak that way?
          If my beliefs are childish then why not elevate the conversation?

          It is elevating the conversation to point out something that is correct and relevant in the face of someone spewing childish nonsense like you are. There’s really nowhere to go but up, frankly. But your problem is with anyone who says anything that’s accurate about your beliefs, as you demonstrate here. You admit that even if a negative expression about you is true, your high opinion of yourself still dictates that it should be silenced.

          There is ample evidence that points to his existence.

          Nope. You don’t even attempt to provide any here, but that’s fine, because anything you say will almost certainly be something we’ve all heard before. “Evidence” is something that actually has to substantiate the likelihood of something being true, and I know you don’t have any. You don’t just get to call something that and bitch when everyone else doesn’t pretend right along with you.

          Like I said, the problem here is entitlement. You think everyone needs to lie and abandon their critical thinking capabilities just to support your ego, and consider it a grave injustice when they do not. The world just plain isn’t going to work that way for you.

    • blasphemous_kansan

      “You are basically saying that your beliefs are superior to mine because I am childish.”

      Saying “your beliefs are childish” is not the same as saying “I am better than you”. I welcome evidence to the contrary.

      “Admit that you can be a sophisticated, intelligent, sane person and believe in God….”

      Sounds good, I’m with you so far.

      “….and that it is a perfectly legitimate belief”

      I’ll say it: It is a legitimate belief! It’s exactly as legitimate as unicorns, FSMs, and the like, until proven otherwise.

      • SJH

        “Saying “your beliefs are childish” is not the same as saying “I am better than you”. I welcome evidence to the contrary.”

        You are correct in a way. You are not literally saying that you are better but it is what is implied by the tone. This is evident in your last statement. A belief in unicorns is not at all legitimate however you say that belief in God is legitimate. Your comment is meant as sarcasm. You are speaking down to me as if I am a child or inferior to you.
        That is as example of the “angry atheist” response that I was referring to. Why not just speak with respect?

    • Frank

      If you are trying to appeal to intelligence, reason or truth it has no place here it seems.

      • blasphemous_kansan

        “If you are trying to appeal to intelligence, reason or truth it has no place here it seems.”

        You don’t recognize these things because you don’t know what they look like.

        • Frank

          Tip for all arguers: The “I know you are but what am I” retort may have worked in 3rd grade but not so much after that. Unless of course that’s all you can come up with, In that case you might want to go back to school.

          • blasphemous_kansan

            Thanks for showing up on schedule to prove my point. You never dissapoint, my favorite little angrums troll!

            • Frank

              Hmm. What’s more pitiful? Someone who misses the point if is self deluded? In your case you have done both. Well done! Thanks for proving that my assertion is true,

              • blasphemous_kansan

                “Hmm. What’s more pitiful? Someone who misses the point if is self deluded?”

                Were you trying to say words here, or make a point? Aww, you’re just so cute when you’re angry and trying to use the big words. Maybe change usernames and try again?

                • Frank

                  Thank you all so much! I couldn’t have planned this any better. I don’t even have to work hard. You do all the work for me.

                  Just WOW! This is way too easy. Certainly someone has something substantial to offer?

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  The only truly substantial thing in this world is the love of Christ, Frank. Why did you lie about His word last week? I don’t understand. I’m… hurt.

                  Are you broken inside? Is that why you’re so angry?

                • Frank

                  Poor guy.

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  I know, Kansan. I feel sorry for him. I’m a snarky person, but I really do. Other people can’t help him, though.

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  Whoops! DISQUS showed me the wrong name. Sowwy!

                • blasphemous_kansan

                  So I’ll take that as a ‘No’, you weren’t trying to make a point? Just flinging poo like usual? Thanks for clearing it up!

                  “Certainly someone has something substantial to offer?”

                  Please, feel free to stop replying if my conversation is not substantial. Though I’ve had a little experiment running with you for 3 or 4 threads now with the hypothesis that you are a last-word-chaser. I consider myself an amateur troll-behavior analyst, and I’ve come across the last-word-chaser before. Kind of like in “Dracula: Dead and Loving it”, you’ll just keep going as long as you get the last word. It’s quite hilarious to watch as your posts have less and less substance until you’re left cheering victory to an empty room, and you haven’t yet disappointed me. I welcome another genius rebuttal!

                  Or prove me wrong and quit while you’re ahead. I’m guessing that won’t happen.

                • Frank

                  The self-delusion is strong in this one.

                  BTW I don’t play by your rules so you are absolutely welcome to feel like you have come out on top. I don’t care… you have no power over me.

                • blasphemous_kansan

                  Rules? There are no rules, there is simply my hypothesis. And you have satisfied this hypothesis at every opportunity! Keep it coming!

                • Frank

                  Well if your hypothesis’ (or is it hyothesi) require the same amount of reason, intelligence and truth that you have put into your non belief of God then I have nothing to worry about.

                • blasphemous_kansan

                  I’m not surprised you don’t know this, but ‘truth’ is not a requirement for a hypothesis. A hypothesis is a tool, used in conjunction with evidence, to arrive at what appears to be the truth. My hypothesis is that you are a petty immature person who will do anything to get the last word in a discussion, even if it descends into senseless insult and cheering victory, and that you somehow think this behavior makes your faith look appealing. My evidence is that this always happens with you. The truth that I have arrived at is that my original hypothesis has not yet been falsified.

                  Keep the evidence coming!

                • Frank

                  As I said if the tools you use have led you to atheism then whatever tools you are using are inert.

                  I won’t even mention the fact (ok I will) that as you accuse me of needing to have the last word, you keep responding.

                  Anyways God will have the last word not you or I.

                • 3lemenope

                  And since your God agrees with you in a startling number of ways, it will be just like you getting the last word, only with that special garnish of smugness that one can only feel when someone you don’t like is getting spanked by an authority figure.

                • Frank

                  God does not agree with me I agree with Him. And no one gets spanked unless they choose to be.

                • 3lemenope

                  They’ll all have chosen it, so you don’t have to feel bad. And by spanked, I mean set on fire. And by not feel bad…did I mention just how despicable Christianity can make a person if they try hard enough?

                • blasphemous_kansan

                  We’ve finally gotten there.. A black hole has the event horizon from which escape is not possible, but Frank has what I call the “substance horizon” from which all substance vanishes instantly from Frank’s posts and he’s left exactly where he started: telling all the meanies that god’s gonna git us. I guess it must feel good to vicariously threaten people.

                • Frank

                  Yes it all starts and ends with the truth: God exists, God loves us, we reject God, God send his son Jesus so we can be saved from our rejection, people have a choice, God rules.

                  You can’t have more substance than that!

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  You mouth the words but don’t believe them. I don’t understand. Why are you mocking Christ?

                • Frank

                  Do you think this strategey of yours is effective? Really?

                  Ok carry on then.

                  :rolleyes

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  I have to believe that Christ can reach anyone, even a libeler like yourself. The trouble is that, unlike a murderer or rapist, a libeler has to deceive himself. That’s what’s keeping you from Him, Frank. All you have to do is make the admission that you could be wrong, and Jesus will flow through you.

                • blasphemous_kansan

                  “You can’t have more substance than that!”

                  I agree. Especially if you never look for anything else in life.

                  We’ve passed through the substance horizon. Let’s see if Frank picks up back at the beginning of the loop with the personal insults and whining about “truth, reason…” blah blah.

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  as you accuse me of needing to have the last word, you keep responding.

                  “Why do soldiers shoot back when shot at? THAT JUST CONTINUES THE SHOOTING!”

                  If only you understood metaphor well enough to grasp that.

                  Threatening people with God? Frank, Jesus has promised to forgive you anything, even your gleeful desire for vengeance over words, but you have to come to HIM.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            God loves you despite your venom and bile, Frank.

            • Bitter Lizard
              • C.L. Honeycutt

                I’m all teary-eyed now just at the thought of Frank leaving.

                Not because of the odor trail, either.

              • RoxnSox

                Congratulations, you are now my favourite poster.

              • RoxnSox

                Congratulations, you are now my favourite poster.

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        I’ll pray for you, Frank.

        • Frank

          Who will you pray to?

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            The Christ, who, through your actions, you keep telling us you reject.

            • Frank

              Well at least you are taking a step in the right direction! Pray away!

              • C.L. Honeycutt

                I will! And I’ll ask him to help me understand why you lied about the Bible. It just… why would you do that?

                • Frank

                  If you actually have facts that show I lie I would love to see them. I have not lied on this board.

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  You claimed that the Bible does not revile those who cause their brothers in Christ to lose faith. I showed you where it did, something I’ve known for around thirty-five years. You then claimed it did not say that anyway, and pretended there was a magic explanation that you couldn’t give, choosing to insult rather than give said explanation (probably because you saw it had already been nipped in the bud by a simple explanation of context on my part.)

                  Now you’re pretending to not remember, probably because of narcissism, which is treatable, I just want you to know.

                  He was talking about you when he talked about that giant millstone around the neck, Frank. You lie and drive people from Him. Why do you do that?

                • Frank

                  I never made such a claim. Back it up if you can.

                  What I do remember is you displaying your ignorance (I wouldn’t be proud of the 35 years of knowledge without truth) about the time when Jesus pointed out leading children astray.

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  He referred specifically to children in one line, but made it clear in another that “children” was also a metaphor for his followers.

                  http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/08/15/gay-rights-activists-in-iceland-have-found-the-perfect-way-to-protest-evangelist-franklin-grahams-festival/#comment-1003952279

                  Wow, that took almost five seconds to find. You lose, Frank.

                  I suppose no one should be surprised that you don’t know what a metaphor is. That’s part of the reason you both earned that millstone, and you ARE that millstone to others. If you have a problem with it, that’s between you and God.

                  They’re his words.

                  I’m just the messenger.

                • Frank

                  Lose? I don’t think you understand the concept. Nor the bible for that matter.

                  Where have I lied? Nowhere. Thanks for proving that!

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  Jesus loves you despite your piling on lies to protect lies, Frank. He even loves you when you deceive yourself so much that you won’t even try to learn the truth behind his words so that you won’t have to take responsibility for your sins and do better. He’s already crossed deserts and oceans for you, Frank, but He can’t help you unless you take that one last step.

      • Bdole

        Frank, do you honestly think you’re talking to us the way Jesus would want you to?

        • Frank

          I admit that I am not as Christ-like as I need or should be but Jesus spoke very harshly and pointedly to those that deserved it.

      • SJH

        Frank, your comments, along with those that are arguing with you, are not helping your cause or theirs. The topic is about angry atheism but you are making it about angry Christianity.
        Next time you get on a blog I would suggest, as I have to many atheists on this blog, that you elevate the conversation. If you want atheists to treat you with respect then you will have to show them that courtesy.

    • Tainda

      Again, I DO think I’m superior but it has nothing to do with my atheism. It’s because I’m an elitist bitch.

      There can be intelligent and sophisticated people who believe in a god but their belief in a god is a delusion.

  • ashley

    I completely understand the anger that comes with frustration, and am probably doubly guilty as anyone here…

    What I don’t understand is when atheists raised by atheists/free-thinkers patronize and exhibit disdain for theists who were raised by theists.

    To do so is to fail to recognize the influence of the environment we were raised in. It shows a lack of compassion for the human condition, poor insight to the philosophy of fear, and an obliviousness to the significance of such a worldview upheaval.

    We progressives often urge judgmental/close-minded christians to walk a mile in [enter oppressed person here]‘s shoes … in reality it is a universally useful exercise for everyone.

    • Frank

      Common sense it not understood here Ashley. Maybe one day….

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        Frank, why do you lack that compassion and love for others? Did you not even read the post?

        You make me very sad.

    • Tainda

      Christians in the US are NOT opressed

      Edited to add “in the US”

      • ashley

        I completely agree. I’m not sure who you’re telling this to.

        • 3lemenope

          I could be mistaken, but I think Tainda is reacting to this line:

          We progressives often urge judgmental/close-minded christians to walk a mile in [enter oppressed person here]‘s shoes … in reality it is a universally useful exercise for everyone.

          As in, putting “Christian” in where [oppressed person] goes doesn’t work, because Christians here are not in any way oppressed. Walking in a Christian’s shoes is to walk on the path of privilege when it comes to religion in the US.

          • ashley

            Saying “Yoga is good for women”… and then saying “Yoga is good for everyone” doesn’t mean that everyone is female.

            I did not intend to make any equivalences between christians and oppresees. I apologize if that was unclear.

            • Tainda

              3lemenope is correct, that’s what I was referring to.

              And, gotcha now! :)

    • Bitter Lizard

      It’s a little harder for me to accept the “I was raised that way” argument. If you still have unquestioning belief in everything you were told as a child when you’re an adult, that shows a lack of independent thinking skills.

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      Ashely, most atheists grow up in theist households and/or theist communities. They’ve had direct experience with the tribalism, judgmentalism, and outright bigotry that are prime reasons for rejecting its dominance of the culture.

      If you think we aren’t aware of what religious belief means to people, then you don’t yet know much about this issue. Most of us were raised religiously. Most of us believed it. Most of us experienced that upheaval. And most of us are aware that coddling childish behavior reinforces it. Eventually, it’s time to put away childish things. That time usually comes when the person demands that their childish things be enacted into law as everyone else’s business.

      Being respectful of bad thinking is disrespectful of the person. It is treating them like children who can’t understand better. It takes away their dignity.

      • ashley

        I think you might have misunderstood my post. I too was raised religiously (evangelical fundamentalist, actually, among the most hateful of them all), and have deconverted.

        I 100% agree with you that we should not be “coddling childish behavior” and have a duty to push back against legislative policies that flirt with or outright enforce theocracy. That is in no way my beef. And a generalization–or at least an argument–could probably be made about the audience of this blog being exactly with whom I don’t have beef.

        However, I have observed a number of times (both before and after my deconversion) “angry atheists” exhibiting all the same arrogance and patrionization I was trying to escape.

        My only point was that we need to encourage introspection… and remember that childish behavior doesn’t break down other childish behavior.

        • C.L. Honeycutt

          Ah, my apologies, I think I understand far better now.

          Gotta run so I’ll keep this short: about the last line, while I somewhat agree, I tolerate all but the worst examples of behavior because A) I think there’s room and necessity for all kinds of approaches, and B) because I can see how much those people have sometimes been hurt, feel that they deserve opportunity to vent, and can’t guess whether any particular one is acting out of proportion to what’s been done to them. There is a limit, but it’s hard to define.

  • ZenDruid

    What chaps my hide most of all is that subset of the clergy, all storytellers to begin with, who assume they are legitimate authorities in any sense. They pay no taxes, but feel completely justified in participating in public life as members of a privileged governing class.

    Organized religious groups (churches) should be taxed to the same degree that traveling circuses, theater groups and Hollywood studios are, and given the same deductions for charity that everyone else gets. Does the NFL get any tax breaks?

    I’m not very comfortable with the moderate and liberal Christians who essentially ignore and forgive the lunatic fringe, just because they are also “Christian”.

  • K. C. Sunbeam

    Hemant,
    You do a fine job of explaining why atheists are so angry. And a lot of it is clearly justified. I also appreciate your excellent tolerance of religious people on your blog. You are an exceptional individual.
    I hope what I’m about to say is not taken as crude or offensive; I don’t mean to be, I just need to vent:
    If there is no God, then I’d be better off if I could take a time machine to my time of birth, and be aborted.
    Without God, nobody in the known universe loves me. I have no family, no job, and no house of my own. I’m a social outcast through no fault of my own; I’m a nice, law-abiding citizen, my mental disability facilitates that. Both religious and non-religious people are equally guilty of persecuting me.
    And the chief hobby that occupies my time is writing about religious matters, so that would be shot.
    In summary, spouting atheism strikes me as if someone is trying to rip both of my arms and legs clean off. I’m not angry, it’s just causing a disconnect, and a concern about where this country is headed relative to my values.
    And I pray that people would rethink this idea that religious pathways are non-thinking, and think hard.
    My website: http://shockedbytruth.jimdo.com

  • Lynn

    “People use god, to do a lot of things, that I find unbelievable.” This statement is spot on. What I have experienced, has proven without a doubt, there is no god. I am not angry at god, because there is no god. I am angry at people. Especially those who have the gall to tell me, that the nightmare going on in my life, is gods plan.

    How in the heck, does anyone really know what gods plan is for them, or anyone else? The same people telling me the terrorizing going on in my life is gods plan, are the one’s doing it. “People use god, to do a lot of things, that I find unbelievable.” Yes they do Hemant Mehta

  • Cattleya1

    OK, I’d like to know why christians are so angry? Bryan Fisher, Mat Staver, Peter LaBarbera, etc. all seem like very angry, nasty people, to me. Clean up your own house before criticizing us.

  • Dave G.

    If I believed that no matter how hard I tried, all notions of meaning were just subjective inventions meant to give purpose to the passing on of our DNA until we rot and become worm food, and eventually the universe ends when our lives will ultimately have no meaning, then I’d be angry, too.


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