David Barton: If There’s No Prayer at a Public School Graduation, That’s a Promotion of Atheism

Last month, when there was a strong push to allow Humanist chaplains in the military, Rep. John Fleming (R-LA) responded by explaining the obvious consequences:

Rep. John Fleming

“This I think would make a mockery of the chaplaincy,” said Rep. John Fleming (R-La.). “The last thing in the world we would want to see was a young soldier who may be dying and they’re at a field hospital and the chaplain is standing over that person saying to them, ‘If you die here, there is no hope for you in the future.’”

We all know he has no idea what he’s talking about.

Which must be why Christian pseudo-historian David Barton wanted to speak with him on “WallBuilders Live.” You know, intellectual equals and all.

Fleming claimed that the atheists were just trying to push religion out of the military… (which is especially ridiculous when you consider how many atheists went ballistic over the idea of non-theists adopting the religious language of the chaplaincy).

But then Barton took it a step further. He claimed that atheism was a religion and therefore needed to be banned from public schools:

Darwinism and evolution is a religion. Why don’t we say ‘hey, we can’t teach Darwinism in school. That affects the way people behave. I demand separation of church and state. Get Darwinism out of the classroom.’

Or why don’t we say ‘hey, I don’t see any prayers going at graduation; that’s atheism! I demand separation of church and state. Atheism has chaplains, they’re a religion. Get atheism out of the schools.’

Where do you even begin…?

Using David Barton’s logic, unemployment is a job and abstinence is a sex position.

Look: If we wanted to push atheism in school, students would have to pledge that we’re a nation under “no God.” No one is suggesting that. Not praying isn’t an homage to atheism and neither is teaching proper science.

Including Humanists in the military chaplaincy isn’t an indication that atheism is a religion. It’s acknowledging that religious chaplains simply can’t help atheist soldiers in the same way a non-theistic counselor can. This is about treating all soldiers with respect and not forcing them to see a chaplain who doesn’t share their worldview.

There’s no room for neutrality in Barton’s world. Everything is either pro-Christian or pro-atheistic. There’s no middle ground.

The only sensible option — something Barton refuses to understands because his livelihood depends on it — is to keep forced religious practices out of our schools and military. That’s the compromise. That doesn’t promote or dismiss anyone’s religious beliefs. People can pray or not pray on their own. It’s as simple as that.

Don’t force kids to pray to God in school (or, for that matter, deny God’s existence). Don’t force soldiers who need help to see only religious chaplains when it would be so damn easy to just include one more group of people into those ranks.

(via Right Wing Watch)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the chair of Foundation Beyond Belief and a high school math teacher in the suburbs of Chicago. He began writing the Friendly Atheist blog in 2006. His latest book is called The Young Atheist's Survival Guide.

  • riddles

    My cereal pushes atheism because it makes no mention of religion at all.

    • Jeo

      Mine just says OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO…

      I have no idea what that means but I think its christian

      • # zbowman

        Maybe it’s trying to sing Gospel?

      • riddles

        I think it’s spelling out reverent awe so it must be religious in some way.

      • http://boldquestions.wordpress.com/ Ubi Dubium

        Mine says: “A OO EE OO EEE”.

        I think my Alpha-bits have converted to Gnosticism

        • SeniorSkeptik

          Are you sure they aren’t singing “OH EEH AH AH TING TANG WALA WALA BING BANG…”

          • Oranje

            I think you’re missing an “OOH” in there.

            Or not. I seem to remember one before the “AH AH.”

            I’m also ill at the moment.

            • Spazticus

              You’re also correct.

          • SwimmingTowardsPie

            Animistic cereal?

        • THE BEETS

          AAAA EEEEE OOOOOOO

          KILLER TOFU

          EEE I EEE

        • James William Jake Frizell

          Sounds like tongues.

      • Vitamin J

        My Spaghetti-Os say OOOooOoOOoooOOOooOOOooOooOo like it’s Halloween or something…

      • busterggi

        It means your cereal is having an orgasm.

      • cochranbt

        Peter, those are Spaghetti-O’s.

    • Gus

      “snap-crackle-pop” = “praise Satan! There is no God! There is no devil! We worship the devil!”

      Wait, are Kellog’s cereals religious since they were created by a crazy Christian? Or only the specific brands Kellog introduced himself?

      • sixholdens

        Make up you mind. “There is no devil” “We worship the devil!”. Can’t worship what isn’t.

        • Bryan B

          Christians do that already, so…

        • Gus

          Yeah, that’s the joke. ;-)

    • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

      Lucky Charms promotes witchcraft. They’re magically delicious, if delicious means, ‘YOU’RE GOING TO HELL!!!’ Burn the Leprechaun!!!!!

      • Kodie

        Cap’n Crunch is the devil’s cereal.

        • Vitamin J

          DO NOT SPEAK ILL OF CAPTAIN HORATIO MAGELLAN CRUNCH!

      • talkingsnake

        Fruity Pebbles are the clear choice for evolution deniers and is even the official cereal of the Kentucky Creation Musem.

        • Octoberfurst

          I heard eating Fruity Pebbles makes you gay. It’s the devil’s cereal I tell ya!

        • Bryan B

          Using this guy’s logic Pebbles is a baby and so enjoying that cereal promotes pedophilia.

  • Ryan Jean

    Using David Barton’s logic, unemployment is a job and abstinence is a sex position.

    Well, considering the right-wing memes about welfare recipients, I wouldn’t be surprised if he did think that. And I’m not even going to get started on his warped views about abstinence…

  • Jasper

    So why even have the 1st amendment, if it’s clearly impossible to actually adhere to?

    • Jasper

      So eating breakfast without praising Jesus is atheist cereal.

      Sleeping without non-stop praising Jesus is continual promotion of atheism, which apparently this guy does every night.

      A wall that isn’t plastered with Jesus portraits is endorsing atheism.

      • Gus

        They’re really so confused by decades of their own rhetoric. When I was a teenage at a Baptist church we were told that any secular music was the devil’s music. Only religious music should be listened to. One wonders why that doesn’t apply right down to Lucky Charms (leprechauns are clearly satanic anyway, right?). But now “atheism” and secular are the same thing, which is not at all the case when talking about government, or even secular music, where secular just means “not religious”. But since atheism = satanism and secular = satanic, atheism obviously equals secular, and active speaking against belief = simply not talking about religion, so not talking about religion = praising satan by the transitive power of satan.

        • skinnercitycyclist

          You will find that all of your equations are true when it comes to Barton.

      • baal

        “A wall that isn’t plastered with Jesus portraits is endorsing atheism.”
        Every dog’s ass that isn’t a paraidolia of jesus is endorsing atheism.

        • busterggi

          BVM asses excepted of course.

    • Spuddie

      David Barton doesn’t like the 1st Amendment anyway. Anytime you read a post from an idiot saying “separation of church and state does not really exist”, you are reading Barton.

  • observer

    “There’s no room for neutrality in Barton’s world. Everything is either pro-Christian or pro-atheistic.”

    Correction: Everything is either pro-Christian or anti-Christian to these people.

    • foo

      This isn’t news. To many dyed in the wool evangelists, if you aren’t thanking “God” continuously throughout the day, even for something as mundane as taking a dump, you are “anti” christian. And I honestly believe many of them do exactly that (perhaps under their breath, if in a public restroom) I can just imagine: “Dear lord thank you for this bowel I am about to move….”

      • Patrick R

        Holy Shit!!

      • Gus

        Love it! I want to write a complete liturgy for dump taking now. A Christian might say there are no constipated atheists: “Oh god, please let me get this poop out!”

      • The Other Weirdo

        Holy shit snacks!

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        Seriously. I got stuck in a conversation between two hunters at the orthopaedist today. The X-Ray tech was talking about various times she had shot animals and thanking God for “putting them in her way.”

        Then they both gleefully discussed all the exotic countries they’d like to visit and pay thousands and thousands of dollars to shoot exotic animals for fun.

        • Gus

          I just don’t understand this mentality. I can almost accept deer hunting, seeing as the population is large and assuming one eats one’s kill, it’s not so much worse and maybe even more ethical than eating beef (depending on your hunting/agricultural practices). But flying halfway round the world to kill big game? It’s just disgusting. And any hunting of apex predators is a huge problem ecologically. And for what? A challenge? What’s the challenge when you go out by land rover and helicopter with professional guides and a high powered rifle? Or worse, a completely canned hunt? You’ve no more earned that kill than a socialite who buys a fur coat.

          And they think Jesus is interested in helping them do that? If that’s not proof of how religion says whatever the believer wants it to, I don’t know what is.

          • Spuddie

            “You’ve no more earned that kill than a socialite who buys a fur coat.”

            I think it takes more skill and bravery to buy the fur coat. Finding decent sellers and avoiding the condemnation of the fur is murder set is much tougher work than a canned hunt.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            Killing one’s own meat is certainly more ethical than buying beef, oh yes. I grew up in moderate hunter culture and have no problem with hunting other than that it’s kind of gross. My father owned a hunting and fishing store. I just helped an artist with figuring out what type of hunting bow a character would likely use.

            And of course, enjoying it is not unreasonable. If you’re going to spend entire days sitting in the cold woods waiting for a deer, you are entitled to enjoy succeeding.

            I take issue with these people who are fucking drooling gleefully over the idea of shooting something. I’ve seen too many of them who shoot squirrels to make them explode, who shoot people’s pet dogs for wandering too far or their own dogs for not being convenient enough, who shoot domestic cats because they, quote, “don’t like cats much”… I had one guy invite me to come shoot coyotes on the property of a friend of his (mind you, we do not have a coyote problem here. I’ve seen two of them, ever. Never seen their tracks, leavings or other messes or met anyone who has. There are too many raccoons, bobcats and dog packs for coyotes to be an issue yet.) I asked him why he wanted to shoot coyotes, and his answer was, “because it’s legal.”

    • Gus

      Slight modification to the correction: Everything is either pro-Christian or pro-Satan to these people.

    • UWIR

      If you put “blockquote” in your post instead of “quote”, Disqus will format the quote like this:

      “There’s no room for neutrality in Barton’s world. Everything is either pro-Christian or pro-atheistic.”

  • Gus

    I really do hope no one is actually listening to this clown anymore. I know the faithful buy his crap, but I really want to believe that the majority of the American people know he’s full of it. If that’s the case, how do we mobilize people to fight the influence this guy has in politics? The religious control the right because they’re vocal and they vote. How does one get someone who just wants what they think is the status quo: no prayer in school, separation of church and state, science taught in science classes, to continue to be fired up, passionate, and at the polls? It’s easy for those of us who are passionate about this already because it directly affects us, but for the average person?

    What I’d like to see is Christians taking a strong vocal stand for separation of church and state. I’d like to see a lot more Barry Lynns in the world, and I’d like to hear them preaching that separation on Sunday and writing blogs and op eds supporting it. Otherwise I guess Christians could at least stop claiming we shouldn’t pick on the worst of them as if they’re representative.

    • Petzl

      There’s no way to fight this guy. The same way neo-cons create fake news stations which are listened to by other neo-cons because they don’t like current events, they create fake scholars who are listened to by other neo-cons because they don’t like historical truths.

  • http://abb3w.livejournal.com/ abb3w

    When it was known, therefore, that [Thomas Jefferson] was about to establish an institution of learning, without a clergyman at its head, with no provision for religious instruction and for enforcing attendance on religious exercises [...] many good people sincerely believed that he was about to establish a school for the purpose of promulgating infidelity. They argued thus: they do not teach religion, therefore they teach no religion, therefore they teach infidelity. It was a simple argument, whatever may be said of its logic.

    Well over a century later, it’s still a simple argument.

    Possible counterargument for confusing Christians: the purpose of schools is to teach students things that they do not already understand, as teaching them things they already know is a waste of time, effort, and taxpayer money. However, according to Romans 1:19-20, all humanity innately knows of the existence of God. Therefore, Barton’s position is either supporting Government spending completely unnecessary money on the schools, or is anti-Christian by denying the Inerrancy of the Bible.

    Burn the heretic!

  • Octoberfurst

    Barton has to be one of the dumbest human beings on the planet but yet the Religious Right treats him like he is a genius. Go figure.
    And when did the Supreme Court declare religion is “whatever someone believes so sincerely and strongly that it effects the way they act”? I don’t recall ever hearing about that ruling. The dictionary defines religion as “A belief in a divine or superhuman power or powers to be obeyed and worshiped as the creator(s) of the universe.” There’s more but it is all about woo. It says nothing about “something you believe strongly in.”

    So how is atheism a religion? And if NOT praying in public schools is promoting the “religion of atheism” and is therefore unConstitutional in Barton’s mind what is his solution? Don’t pray and not pray? How does that work exactly? “Ok kids we can’t have public prayer over the loudspeakers but we can’t NOT pray at the same time because that promotes the religion of atheism soooooo—–.” >sigh< I truly believe that Barton fell out of the stupid tree when he was young and hit every branch on the way down.

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      Barton has to be one of the dumbest human beings on the planet but yet
      the Religious Right treats him like he is a genius. Go figure.

      Reminds me of the best description of Newt Gingrich I’ve yet seen:
      “He’s what stupid people think a smart person sounds like.”

  • EvolutionKills

    To Rep. John Flemming

    Please never ever smile like that in front of a camera, ever.

    Sincerly – The civilized world.

    P.S. Stop being a ignorant douche, thanks!

    • skinnercitycyclist

      I think you are being insensitive. It is clear that Rep. Fleming (R-Phlegm) is holding a very small toad on his tongue. If he doesn’t s,mil that way, he might swallow it.

    • duke_of_omnium

      P.P.S. get a better toupee.

    • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

      Considering that he is afraid that the camera might capture his soul for all eternity, I think he is doing an ok job at hiding his object terror.

  • http://www.holytape.etsy.com Holytape

    Daltonism and Atomic theory is a religion. Why don’t we say ‘hey, we can’t teach Daltonism in school. That affects the way people think about the transformation of the Holy Eucharist into the body and blood of Christ. I demand separation of church and state. Get Atomic theory out of the classroom!’

    • Spuddie

      If its Timothy Daltonism, I would gladly consider myself an adherent to that faith.

      His 2 Bond films weren’t that bad. His roles in Flash Gordon, The Rocketeer and Hot Fuzz are under appreciated.

      Plus early in his career he was able to avoid being swallowed up by the banquet-level scenery mastication of Peter O’Toole, Katherine Hepburn and Anthony Hopkins of Lion in Winter.

      • busterggi

        Especially Hot Fuzz!

  • cipher

    I object to Barton being called an historian.

    Actually, I just object to Barton.

    • Spazticus

      I object to both. Using the term historian for Barton is about as accurate as calling Ray Comfort a scientist.

      • dem0n0cracy

        But a banana fits perfectly into Ray Comfort’s butthole! You can’t explain that!

        • Sweetredtele

          GG Allin beat him to it.

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      Quote from a commenter here, I sadly don’t recall who:

      “Given the fact that David Barton lacks the requisite education to teach history at the grade school level, he may as well be calling himself an astronaut as a historian.”

      Edit: Credit appears to go to Oraxx for that quote.

      • Gus

        I can see this playing out. Molecular biologist David Barton says evolution cannot be correct.

        Particle physicist David Barton says radiometric dating proves the Earth to be 6,000 years old.

        Cosmologist David Barton says there the big bang was just God sneezing.

        Just give yourself a title and claim whatever you want! It’s the David Barton way, why stop at history?

      • Petzl

        Wait, so now someone with a BA in religious education from Oral Roberts University isn’t a historian or an astronaut??

        • C.L. Honeycutt

          He could only be all those things if he were also Doctor McNinja.

          Yes, that is a thing. He has a website. Everyone should read it.

    • Dutchess

      I object to him being called a human.

    • AnonymousHero

      I wish he’d become “an hero”.

  • Timmah

    The retort to this guy can be summed up with only two words “No, dummy.”

  • LesterBallard

    David Barton, lick my sweaty taint, you worthless liar for Jesus.

    • Oranje

      We should find you some air conditioning.

  • David McNerney

    Fine, atheism is a religion. Happy?

    Now ban it and all other religions from schools. Job done.

    • guest

      As long as I get my tax exempt status for my home, er, place of worship. I think I’ll have a statue of Darwin placed in my front yard to make it official.

  • Muggsy

    “Using David Barton’s logic, unemployment is a job and abstinence is a sex position.” Thanks for the great laugh!

  • Bruce Martin

    So, do they think the USA was dedicated to atheism until the 1950s when god was added to the pledge? What does it mean if we haven’t won a war since we got godified?

    • tubi11

      We haven’t lost any either. To be fair, we haven’t actually fought any wars since then, if by “war” you mean the use of force duly authorized by Congress under Article I, Section 8, Clause 11.

    • Zairian

      Some christians think ‘Under god’ has always been in our pledge, I guarantee you.

  • Bitter Lizard

    “Not praying isn’t an homage to atheism and neither is teaching proper science.”

    I’m going to do my best to stir the pot a little here. Teaching proper science isn’t an endorsement of atheism, which is an important legal distinction, but it probably does encourage it. Facts and critical thinking will always promote atheism over religion–I’m reminded of Stephen Colbert’s assertion that “reality has a liberal bias”. Reality is “biased” in favor of atheism, so it’s easy to see why fundamentalists see any reality-based education or legislation as biased in favor of atheism.

    The notion of the state being “neutral” on matters of religion can make sense to a liberal theist who compartmentalizes things (i.e. makes a distinction between “faith” and “facts”), but to a fundamentalist who sees the efficacy of prayer and young-Earth creationism as facts like any other it really has little meaning. If you start with their premises, teaching evolution instead of creationism looks exactly to them what the opposite would look like to us.

    In case I’m not being clear, my point is not to defend fundamentalists. My point is that the core problem is their beliefs themselves, not just their desire to legislate them. Many atheists seem to take an attitude of “I don’t care what people believe, as long as they don’t act on it in ways that affect me”. I think that perspective is naive, because some beliefs tend to necessitate action on the part of the believers. I agree that the government should try its best to be officially “neutral” on the existence of gods, but I think nonbelievers as individuals should actively promote atheism instead of just secularism. Separation of church and state will always be tenuous when there’s a lot of religious people involved.

    • Anna

      Teaching proper science isn’t an endorsement of atheism, which is an important legal distinction, but it probably does encourage it.

      I’m not sure I agree with that, simply because moderate denominations have no problem with evolution. Catholic schools, Episcopal schools, and most Methodist and Lutheran schools all teach proper science, and I’d be surprised if those students were more likely to consider atheism as a result. The only kids who are really forced to choose between religion and science are those who are raised in creationist churches.

      • Bitter Lizard

        I don’t deny that many theists accept evolution, or at least think they do. But I think it’s pretty clear that scientific literacy reinforces atheism (and vice versa). It isn’t a coincidence that 93% of the National Academy of Sciences identify as “atheist or agnostic”, almost an inverse of the general population.

        I’m also of the school of thought that science and religion are not philosophically compatible, and most of the really vocal atheist scientists agree with me (I should note that I’m not sure you disagree). I can’t improve on two scientists making this argument:

        http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/stenger-on-science-vs-religion/

        Jerry Coyne even argues that “theistic evolution” is really just another kind of creationism. So even liberal theists who say they accept evolution are often really just choosing religion over science. Science is inherently atheistic.

        • baal

          “Science is inherently atheistic.” Well, science is focused on understanding the objective real world – supernatural explanations fair extremely poorly under examination so yes, I agree.

        • Anna

          I agree, but I don’t think proper science taught in the classroom has much effect on religiosity. If someone has a strong interest in science (enough to want to become a scientist), then I’m sure it makes a difference. But I can’t imagine that a simple biology class taught to a student whose church accepts evolution is going to make that student consider rejecting belief in the supernatural.

          • Bitter Lizard

            I agree that science class isn’t going to convince most religious kids to stop being religious, simply because most religious people stay religious even when faced with contradictory information. And you seem to concede that it probably does makes a difference in some cases, so I’m not sure we disagree much.

  • Larry Meredith

    my reaction: “Whaaaaat??… Ohhhh, David Barton.”

  • Donatello

    Every time you meet David Barton and don’t punch him in the face you are promoting Jainism. So if you want to stay neutral you know what you have to do…

    • busterggi

      But wouldn’t punching him in the face promote Dickism?

      Punch him where it won’t show for mercy’s sake.

  • yellownumberfive

    Just remember next November, if you don’t vote for David Barton, that’s a promotion of David Barton.

    Make sure you promote the fuck out of David Barton.

  • Matthew Baker

    While a broken clock might be right twice a day I don’t think we can really apply that adage to David. He seems to be wrong about everything.

    • Bdole

      He’s digital.

      • b s

        He’s got a force field and a flexible plan
        He’s got a date with fate in a black sedan
        He plays fast forward for as long as he can
        But he won’t need a bed
        He’s a digital man

      • rtanen

        The time zone is incorrect, part of the display just doesn’t work, and the day of the week is wrong because he is calibrated for a year in the distant past.

  • JA

    The stupid makes my head hurt.

  • Michaela Samuels

    I’ve been to multiple high school graduations of family and friends over the past 5 years. Every. Single. One. has had a prayer to god, and this year, Jesus Christ was mentioned several times, too. Just throwing that out there to further point to how totally removed he is from reality.

    I may be in the Bible belt, but I am still in America. That should stand for something.

    • Anna

      Have you contacted FFRF? Most of these schools do things like that because they know they can get away with it.

      • Michaela Samuels

        Wow, I just looked up the specifics on that law. I wasn’t aware that even student-led prayers are illegal. I am going to see if I can track down an order of service. Shouldn’t be too hard since it was my little sister’s graduation. Thanks for the tip!

        • Sweetredtele

          I thought student led prayers were semi-legal under the First Amendment. Sort of a murky zone. They won’t be legal as soon as they aren’t predominately Christian.

  • Greg G.

    Any time Barton stops praying, it’s a promotion of atheism. When he stops praying to say something stupid, he’s promoting atheism.

  • Paul Reed

    Unemployment is a job?
    Well then, I’m about due for a promotion.

    • Outis

      But not getting a promotion is the same as getting one, right?

      My brain hurts.

  • newavocation

    Dare I say Barton is getting a bit more desperate and needs to appeal for support from the nuttier nuts or fruitier fruitbaskets.

  • Spuddie

    I guess all those years of making dishonest factual arguments have carried over into making dishonest rhetorical ones.

  • Gus

    Using David Barton’s logic…

    Let me just stop you right there.

  • WallofSleep

    It’s sad how the religious try to denigrate science and atheism by calling them religions. It’s like they don’t have any mirrors in their houses.

  • viaten

    “Using David Barton’s logic, unemployment is a job and abstinence is a sex position.”

    And student lunch breaks and recess are “classes”. They’re student gatherings aren’t they?

  • RageMojo

    Is it any wonder our country is in the toilet and the masses are brainwashed to a painful degree. This is the dumbest goddamn thing I have read all week.

  • DougI

    Is anyone surprised that a person who lies for a living is lying again? These Christians have no shame. Maybe we should start reporting stories when these bible thumpers start telling the truth.

    • Ryan Clement

      We tried that a few years ago. It had to end when we realized there was nothing to report on.

  • Dave

    When i was 7 or 8 i found my fathers dog tags and asked what RC was. The story is when he was getting his dog tags in WW2 the clerk says religion, he says none, clerk says you can’t have none, dad says put none! The clerk says we need to know so if you are dying we have the right chaplain saying the last rites. Dad says if I am dying in the battle field and some asshole is dribbling that mumbo jumbo bullshit over me I’ll shoot him. The clerk says we will make you a Roman Catholic then. That story always makes me smile.

    • TrainAss

      I laughed at that. That’s a great story. Thank you! I especially needed a laugh today! Thank you very much.

  • Thundal Archsys

    Someone doesn’t understand the basic premise of negation.

    What the fuck is wrong with people like this…

    • http://shitmytoiletsays.blogspot.com/ Crud O’Matic

      They’re like used car salesmen – they have a product to sell, and no qualms about being a filthy, underhanded liar to do so.

      Logic never enters into the discussion. Why should it? He’s there to deceive you into buying the clunker he’s selling.

  • oborune

    its not a promotion of Atheism its just not promoting any religion, get your head out of your ass, its a public school. People like this are so fucking stupid and it pisses me right the fuck off. Separation of church and state was set in place to keep asshats like this from doing stupid shit. stop feeling oppressed and shut the fuck up.

  • ORAXX

    The stupidity of David Barton worries me less than does the stupidity of the people who take him seriously. There is no legal definition of the title ‘historian’ that I’m aware of, but a person calling his or her self a historian should at least have the academic qualifications to teach history at the grade school level, which Barton does not.

  • eric

    Or why don’t we say…

    1. You don’t say it directly because to do so would reveal your stupidity.
    2. What’s more, you say “why don’t we say…” instead of “I say…” because you are unwilling to personally defend an idea you clearly want to promote. IOW, you’re a coward.

  • nicholmikey

    How could a human brain do this

    • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

      I think we are in the midst of an evolutionary branching of humanity into two separate subspecies, homo sapiens, “man the thinker,” and homo caudex, “man the dumbass.” These two varieties will mate with each other less and less until they are truly separate species.

      • Spuddie

        Never underestimate the willingness of people to mate outside of their intellectual level because “they’re hot”, “they’re funny”, “really good in bed” or rich.

        There is always going to be a little Eloi in our Morlocks and visa versa.

        • busterggi

          I’m not sure about that. I was at a Wal-Mart just last week.

          • Spuddie

            I go to Wal-Mart.

            They have the best deals on kitty litter, contact lens solution and Windex.

            • baal

              I don’t go to Wal-Mart. It’s depressing and the Waltons are part of the right wing oligarch crew. Their wealth is literally inconceivable and it’s built of the suffering of their workers.

              • Spuddie

                I know. They are evil and I work in service of wage slavery, but the low low prices. I am a bad human being.

  • ackthbbft

    And if you didn’t put gas in your car before the graduation, you MUST be endorsing electric vehicles!

  • lolblocked lolblockd

    How the fuck did this guy get elected?

  • Leafstride

    ATHEISM IS LACK OF THEISM JUST LIKE ASEXUAL MEANS NO SEX AND IT IS NOT A KIND OF SEX.

    • rtanen

      That analogy breaks down when you realize that asexuality is considered a sexual orientation by asexuals. Consider replacing the word asexual in your comment with abstinent.

  • Matt Talsma

    My god you people are idiotic…

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      Poor desperate angrums. Wishing so hard that you were bright enough to even understand the issues. So frustrated at not understanding the issues. So butthurt at not being able to make an argument. Poor angrums.

    • Bitter Lizard

      That’s what I say to His people, too.

    • http://shitmytoiletsays.blogspot.com/ Crud O’Matic

      Remember, if you aren’t praying, you’re promoting atheism. So hit your knees, and never get up. Sleeping is also forbidden, as you don’t pray when you are asleep.

      Mad? Confused? You have your buddy David Barton to thank for that.

    • rtanen

      If we are saying something irrational, inaccurate, or otherwise difficult to follow, point it out more specifically and it may be corrected. Statements this vague contribute nothing to the discussion. If all your statements are just insults to other commenters, try and find a different forum designed for that.

    • Ella Warnock

      Oh dear, did someone call the . . .

  • http://shitmytoiletsays.blogspot.com/ Crud O’Matic

    If atheism is a religion, then the atheist prayer could be NOT praying. So if you aren’t praying, then you are saying the atheist prayer.

    Then when he opens his mouth to respond, ask him if he’s an atheist. When he says no, then ask him why he’s saying the atheist prayer by NOT praying.

    If you want to be a good Christian, then you have to pray MORE than the Muslims do – the minute you stop, you are an atheist. You’ll de-convert from Christianity every time you go to sleep – so sleeping is also forbidden to a good Christian.

    I see that you haven’t eaten, showered or slept for days, Mr. Barton. You ready to drop your ridiculous argument?

  • Emperor Xerro

    And I thought it was only dogs that would eat their own barf.

  • Gohome

    It is truly worrying to see the opinions of people like Barton who are in such positions of authority and influence.

    • So-Tired-of-Idiots

      Even more worrying is the IQ level of those who voted this mental giant into office. They voted for him because they considered him smarter than they were.

  • Persephone Sixty-Six

    I made a video about it, not enough facepalm though.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da0Bu_dbwYw

  • SeekerLancer

    So if atheism was a religion and having a secular government is a promotion of atheism and the government is supposed to be neutral and not promote any religion then the government should promote Christianity?

    Is there even a shred of logic in Barton’s brain?

    • Your Mom

      Your first sentence made my brain explode from ecstasy. Be expecting a bill for brain transplant surgery. :)

  • jg29a

    There’s nothing at all about McDonald’s on my office wall.

    So when is Burger King going to pay for this blatant advertisement?

    • http://doityourselfcomputing.com/ Robbi

      LOL right after we start paying them 15 bucks an hour.

  • Nelson

    The absence of religion is apparently the religion of absence.
    These baby boomers need to stop already.

    • http://doityourselfcomputing.com/ Robbi

      as anyone who has every dealt with the bigotry of atheism knows, it is absolutely as bad if not worse than religion. Moreover. the tenets are there.. Lastly, for you to tell me that there has never been a death based on atheism is absolute garbage.. Not being religious or having a religion even I know that statement is lacking in reality. LASTLY.. the term religion does not mean ONLY a belief in God or a super power. it may also mean. 2. any system or codification of belief or of opinion. and as atheism proclaims the belief or opinion that there is no god.. it certainly qualifies.

  • Sids

    A rather odd definition of a religion. Gravity also affects how I behave, better not teach that. How about ethics, or English, or maths? They all affect how people behave.

    If Barton is saying all this in English, does that make him a polytheist? Yahweh won’t be happy…

  • Sids

    I expect the pope spends most of his day not praying. Does that mean he’s publicly affirming his atheism? Even the picture of Flemming shows him in the act of not praying. By Barton’s definition, that makes him an atheist.

  • BrowncoatVoter

    unemployment is a job

    Don’t use this an example. Conservatives already think that being unemployed and getting unemployment checks is a job. Granted, I don’t know what to replace it with.


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