Creationist Argues That the Big Bang Is ‘Bad Science’ Since ‘It Doesn’t Line Up with the Bible’

World Net Daily contributor David Rives is a Creationist and he appeared on the Eric-Hovind-hosted Creation Today show recently, explaining that the Big Bang was bad science because the Bible doesn’t back it up.

Because that’s how science works.

Eric Dolan at Raw Story has the clip:

“Now, today we have a lot of atheistic scientists who are telling us, ‘You can’t believe the Bible,’ that everything is the result of an explosion 14 billion years ago, and I believe that’s bad science. It doesn’t line up with the Bible, and it has a lot of problems that those scientists don’t want to tell you. So, yes, you can study astronomy, no problem at all, as long as you stick to the facts of astronomy. The scientific, empirical data that can be seen and demonstrated.”

“I believe that, in six literal days, God created everything, that on day four, he created the stars — that’s what the Bible says — and the information that we’re being told, that a lot of universities are teaching us about astronomy, is nothing but bad science.”

If “lining up with the Bible” is the standard to which we hold things that must be true, then Rives might as well be an atheist since the Bible itself fails that test.

By the way, you can tell Rives is an astronomer because he tells us all about his telescope. If you can take great pictures of the universe, I guess, then that qualifies you to speak about the nature of the origins of the universe.

One more thing: At the 8:45 mark in the actual episode, Hovind matches wits with Rives by misquoting Albert Einstein:

“I think it was Albert Einstein that said any serious student of science will look out there, will realize or recognize, there’s something going on, there’s somebody in control of all of this. I didn’t get that quote exactly right. Look it up. Einstein.”

Okay. I looked it up. Here’s what I think Hovind was referring to:

“What I see in Nature is a grand design that we can understand only imperfectly, one with which a responsible person must look at with humility.”

Of course, as with most things, the hosts are guilty of out-of-context analysis that doesn’t mean what they seem to think it means. Einstein wasn’t religious, but often spoke in theological terms.

And, like all other credible scientists, he’d be ashamed at how his field is being perverted by people like Hovind and Rives who don’t know the first thing about how science works.

(via Christian Nightmares)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • Mitch

    It’s hard to know where to start with nonsense like this. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of astronomy proving “young Earth,” Creationist theories. Then, of course, we get the “god of the gaps” argument in about the last 25 seconds of the video.

    A small, yet amusing, side note: At about 4:10 in the video, Rives is doing a quick rundown of astrology (not the same as astronomy). He obviously dismisses the idea that human personalities and destinies are controlled by the stars (we agree on that), and immediately goes, with a straight face, into saying that he believes god is in control of everything. Funny, I don’t see much difference between the two.

  • Christian Kemp

    LOL, this guy uses the argument which goes like this “brooms exist, so witches must exist” or “London exists, so Harry Potter magic is real”. No evidence required just blind faith.

    A disgrace to his profession if you ask me.

    • Timothy R Alexander

      Harry Potter magic isn’t real? Dude, you just crushed my dreams :(

      • UWIR

        I have seen absolutely no evidence that Harry Potter magic is real. Thus, the Muggle Liaison office must be performing extremely well. And if the Muddle Liaison office exists, then Harry Potter magic must exist.

        • Whirlwitch

          The existence of a MuDDle Liaison Office would explain so much…

    • The Other Weirdo

      What do you mean, blind faith? I find your comment highly offensive and will ask the operator of this bulletin board to ban you for causing me so much distress. I know in my heart that brooms and Harry Potter are real.

  • LizzyJessie

    Seems to me like David Rives starts out with a presupposition and then tries to work a theory towards it. That’s incredibly backwards as to how the actual process of discovery works.

  • Kevin_Of_Bangor

    I was waiting for him to tell me how much it cost in 3 easy payments.

    • murphium

      Me too. He doesn’t sound like a real person as much as a participant in one of those infomercials disguised as a talk show.

  • Jeff

    There are no words.

  • cryofly

    Unfortunately, the bible does line up with a majority of the mentally unstable individuals. That is just my opinion. I must also opine that the bible is simply a bad fiction that does not line up even with preschool Science book. The dude must start using a microscope instead of the telescope… just to search for his holy gray matter.

  • onefuriousllama

    I just… lol, people. What the… yea.

  • LesterBallard

    It’s a guy from World Nut Daily and a Hovind. In other words, fucking liars.

  • L.Long

    I’ve run into Rives’ BS before and to be very nice about it, he IS NOT stupid!
    He’s much worse! He is a lying sack of schite for jesus! You can’t make up the BS he vomits forth by being stupid, he knows science and evilution and that allows him to twist it very effectively…well effectively if you are ignorant sheeple.

    • Mitch

      I just finished watching the whole segment, and I agree with that. One of his big pieces of evidence for creationism is the idea that gravitational time dilation affects light enough that it wouldn’t take billions of years for that light from the most distant stars to reach the earth. Since I don’t have a physics or astronomy background, I can’t disprove his arguments (though it seems he is wrong, since experiments usually point to GTD only changing that elapsed time by nanoseconds).

      • Tainda

        I was just thinking the same thing. If he’s an astronomer, how does he explain the billions of years it takes for the light to reach us, blah, blah, stuff I don’t really understand, blah.

        I see, since I didn’t watch it all, he’s just making shit up as usual lol

      • UWIR

        One of the fundamental breakthroughs in relativity is the realization that “time” is a coordinate that we assign to events, and the value of this coordinate is largely arbitrary; there are particular coordinate systems with “nice” properties, such as Newtonian Physics being locally valid for small velocities, but there is no objectively “correct” coordinate system. The statement “The Earth was created in six days” has no objective meaning, and one is free to come up with a coordinate system in which it is “true”, just as one can come up with a coordinate system in which the Earth is stationary and the Sun revolves around it.

        However, what you describe doesn’t sound to me like a valid argument, even within relativity. Astronomers aren’t idiots; they know about time dilation, and have already taken that into account. The estimates of the size of the visible universe are larger than the estimates of the age of the universe precisely because of this effect.

    • Keyra

      Lying for Jesus is a misnomer, as Jesus does not accept liars. Science and evolution don’t contradict creationism (but young earth creation, yeah, the world’s way older than what the fundies assume, and what New Atheists assume all believers think) and certainly doesn’t contradict God

      • Thalfon

        Creationism is the idea that people were created in human form, as we are now, by God, having never evolved from some previous form. Evolution is a direct contradiction to that. You’re probably referring to something else (like theistic evolution perhaps) as creationism.

        Edit: Also, people are perfectly capable of lying for Jesus whether or not he accepts them or their lies, or even exists/existed.

        • guest

          As I understand their thought, or lack there of, processes, they can do and say pretty much whatever they want as long as they’ve “accepted” Jeebus as their Lawd and Savyour. It’s a get out of jail free card.

          • Blacksheep

            Even though you are making fun of it, It sort of is a “get out of jail free card” – in the sense that God wants it to be that simple for everyone to be with Him.

            “…they can do and say pretty much whatever they want” would be evidence, (according to the Bible), that someone has no accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

            • UWIR

              “God wants it to be that simple for everyone to be with Him.”
              Asking people to accept absolutely ridiculous claims strikes me as the the opposite of “simple”. While there are definitions of “God” such that one cannot prove that God does not exist, “God” in the sense of “a being that wants me to accept Jesus as my savior and has made it as simple as possible for that to happen” absolutely, definitely, with complete certainty, does not exist.

            • Scapegoat

              You know what would be even simpler? If he just teleported us all to Heaven, right the fuck now. But he won’t do that, because he doesn’t actually exist.

      • Fractal Heretic

        Right. He’s a Christian, so he couldn’t possibly be lying to you. Keep telling yourself that. And whatever you do, don’t fact-check anything he says.

      • Mario Strada

        If you know something to be untrue, like the universe being 10K years or less, but repeat it because it helps your narrative, what is that called?

        The Only way one would not be lying would be to be totally ignorant of the basic facts. Some of these people are, but many are not. They lie.

      • DavidMHart

        Maybe your Jesus doesn’t accept liars, but their Jesus certainly does. And since we have so little verifiable information about a historical Jesus – so little in fact that it’s still not settled whether a historical Jesus even existed – then their guess is as good as yours.

        • Blacksheep

          Lying is saying something that you know to be false, which is different from stating something that you believe to be true.

          The historical part Is pretty much settled, the opposition is the tiny minority.

          • DavidMHart

            Lying is saying something that you know to be false, which is different from stating something that you believe to be true.

            This is correct. It’s not hard to find examples of Christians who are lying, as opposed to honestly mistaken – there are plenty of both. Professional creationists are pretty much obliged to lie, since their careers revolve around refuting strawman versions of evolution that they cannot possibly not know are misrepresentations of what the science actually says.

            The historical part Is pretty much settled, the opposition is the tiny minority.

            I understand that the Jesus mythicists are indeed a small minority, but that the historical Jesus hypothesis has simply been accepted as historical by default, because most historians either were Christians and thus had a built-in tendency to avoid looking at the issue too closely, or weren’t specialists in the relevant times and places – i.e. the Jesus myth hyposthesis hasn’t really had a chance to have a fair hearing yet. I’m reserving judgement, but am frankly appalled to find myself living in a world where a non-negligible minority of my fellow humans think that the whole walking-on-water and coming-back-from-the-dead part isn’t an obvious myth, but then I guess that’s what we’re here for :-)

      • Bitter Lizard

        Jesus does not accept liars.

        Heaven must be a lonely place. If there are any Christians who don’t directly lie for Jesus, they are still complicit in deception by not standing up against the liars that dominate their ranks. An honest Christian would be one who acknowledged that most Christians were liars for Jesus and called them out for it. Where is this mythical honest Christian?

      • Baby_Raptor

        Yet your god, if he even actually exists, sits around and does nothing about all the people lying in his name.

        Either your god doesn’t exist or he’s perfectly fine with lying in his name. If he cared, he’d stop it.

        • Bitter Lizard

          B-but free will! God gave us the free will to do anything we want! Except not die sometimes, or find evidence for God ever. Or turn invisible. Or get Christians to stop lying.

          • The Other Weirdo

            God has already Extinction-Level-Evented us at least once, according to the Bible, for using our God-given free will without first having been provided with any sort of guidance on morality. That’s as much an abrogation of free will as anything I can think of.

            • Edward Detian Liu

              us, as in human beings, as in the Great Flood?, cause if so, I call BS, that never happened to humanity, our ancestors survived the extinction of several catastrophes because mammals were small enough to survive with very little sustenance and able to live underground.

              • The Other Weirdo

                But the Bible says it was so! Surely you don’t mean to say that it lied! I am shocked, saddened and yes, even discombobulated by this news you so thoughtlessly sprung on me all unsuspecting.

                • Edward Detian Liu

                  Much love on this post to my fellow human beings ^_^

          • Michaela Samuels

            But, you know, he’s coming back soon! I can already see the signs! It’s only been a mere 2000 years.

      • Guest

        Of course evolution contradicts creationism. Creationism says that god created animals and plants in their current forms, evolution says that plants and animals both evolved from single-celled life. You can’t believe both without mangling one or the other. The scientific theory of how the earth and the sun and the stars formed also contradict creationism because it didn’t happen the way it’s claimed in genesis and their formation was the result o natural processess and required no outside intelligence.

      • Don Gwinn

        Science does not contradict the idea of creation IF you narrow your definition of creation to the idea that something created whatever came far enough before (if there was a “before”) our universe formed–in other words, only if you narrow the idea of “creation” down to the creation of something the scientific method cannot currently examine. That involves abandoning the creation myths of every religion, though. Every one of them *is* flatly contradicted by scientific inquiry.

        Same thing for “God.” Its existence is not contradicted by scientific inquiry if, and only if, you posit that “God” is an undetectable entity, making no detectable impact on our universe, or at least none detectable by the current state of science. Although that seems to allow for the existence of a “God,” it excludes Yahweh, Allah, and all other gods of which I’m aware. It allows for a kind of toothless deism, and that’s it. There’d be no reason, for instance, to worship such a god, nor any way to figure out how to worship it, unless the worship fulfilled some desire of the worshippers themselves.

        • allein

          unless the worship fulfilled some desire of the worshippers themselves.

          hmmm….no, that couldn’t be it…

      • L.Long

        I don’t see why not as both jesus and his dad were world class liars, if the words in the buyBull are accepted as true.

  • C Peterson

    Actually, the Bible is a “bad book” because it doesn’t line up with reality, as revealed by science.

    • Keyra

      Try not to confuse naturalism with reality

      • C Peterson

        No confusion. They are the same.

      • FaithIsGlorifiedDelusion


      • Bitter Lizard

        Try not to confuse sadomasochistic fairy tales with reality, you fucking lunatic.

      • Edmond

        Neither has anything to do with talking animals or magic.

      • baal

        Reality does not contain the supernatural. Any and every time anyone has managed to get a testable claim the answer has always been that the supernatural (including God and gods and mushroom men and sogoth) doesn’t exist and was a figment of someone’s imagination.

      • Matt D

        Trolling make you misty, Keyra?

  • Octoberfurst

    So science backs up young earth creationism and agrees that everything in the universe was created in 6 literal days? Uh-huh. Gee that’s news to me! All I have to say is–evidence please! Oh and “evidence” from your by-bull doesn’t count!

  • viaten

    He’s so young. Does he think he can make a career of this? I hope he has other skills. I hope their not politics or selling used cars.

    • Mitch

      His website describes him as a “songwriter and recording artist,” so maybe that could be his fallback profession.

  • Eliot Parulidae

    I thought creationists pointed to the Big Bang theory as an example of good science, because it indicates that the universe had a beginning (THEREFORE GOD)

    You know, for people who brag about how they’re the consistent ones, they sure can’t get their story straight.

  • Keyra

    Did it ever occur that God created everything, starting with the Big Bang (which doesn’t dismiss God either way)?

    • Grotoff

      It’s a cute idea, but on this I agree with the fundies. If you take the Bible seriously, it doesn’t work.

      Here’s a good reference.

    • Kevin_Of_Bangor


    • wmdkitty


    • Bender

      Did it ever occur to you that some sort of spagetthi monster created everyting, starting with the Big Bang (which doesn’t dismiss the spagetthi monster either way)?

    • Dorfl

      Yes, we are familiar with that idea.

      First of all, there is no evidence for it.

      Second, it isn’t actually clear that the universe began at the Big Bang. Popular science texts usually make it sound as though it was certain, but actually we can’t say anything much about what happened that far back until we’ve managed to combine quantum physics and general relativity.

      • Mary

        The cosmic background radiation and WMAP are good indicators that the Big Bang happened.

        • Dorfl

          Sure, the Big Bang definitely happened. My point was that while popular science texts tend to claim that the universe began at that point, actual cosmologists aren’t sure of that at all.

          • Mary

            Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

    • Mario Strada

      Did it ever occur to you to actually read about it? Starting with the fact that it was discovered by a priest? Georges Lemaître. And that at the time it was called “Big Bang” to make fun of it, but it’s not a very descriptive name.

      Not only it does not exclude a god, but many religious people saw in it the very hand of a creator.

      So yes, we do know a thing or two about it. For instance, we know that “Big Bang” is often compared to an “Explosion”. Far from it. If the theory is correct, which may very well not be, what “banged” was spacetime. You could not have observed it from outside because there was no “outside”.

      What it does not do, is prove a creator one way or another.

      • maddogdelta

        Great! You have logically asserted deism, which cannot be disproven … because we always push a deistic creator one step further away than we have the skills to detect. And this deistic creator god always ignores the creation for the remainder of time.

        So what? You’ve added an unnecessary step to our understanding of the universe. Drop it and move on.

        Or, you can try to connect dots that are 13.7 billion years apart from each other and say that “deism can’t be disproven, therefore JESUS” which can’t be done.

        Just to give you an idea of how monumental a task you have set for yourself, try this. Count to 1 billion, one number every second. And try to imagine every second to be equivalent to one year. In one second, you’ve gone one year, and you can probably guess some of the things you have forgotten in that past year, which you just represented with one second. In less than 2 minutes, you have far exceeded the typical lifetime of a human being. In a little over half an hour, you are now in Roman times, looking at palestine. Almost all of our knowledge, technology, mathematical cleverness has been passed through humanity in that 33 minutes.

        55 hours after you start, if you don’t sleep or eat, you get to the dawn of humanity. So for 54.5 hours of our timeline, your god has told humanity to suck an egg, and burn in hell forever, because you can’t get to heaven without Jesus.

        In only one year, you get halfway to the dinosaurs, about 31 million years.

        Now keep going for another 30 years, and you will finally get to 1 billion… 1/14 of the lifetime of the entire universe.

        Go ahead, try to connect those dots.

        • baal

          Mario is on our side (atheists).

    • Cassiopeia


      Except the only proof for that is a two thousand year old book translated into multiple languages, which is not internally consistent and which has little historical verification from outside sources.

      You might as well say that the Iliad should dictate our lives. After all, it’s older than the Bible, more internally consistent, (while parts of it are disputed) it was only written by one person, it actually manages to be less misogynistic than the Bible and doesn’t hate gay people.

      Plus, there’s a much better storyline.

    • Intelligent Donkey

      The thing is, nobody really knows what caused the Big Bang.

      But in the 13+ billion years after that, the universe has behaved, and still behaves, exactly like science predicts our universe to behave if there are no gods.

      God may have started it all, but he’s been twiddling his divine thumbs ever since.

    • Guest

      Prove it or gtfo. Proof must be with experiments, not bible verses written by an unknown author a couple of thousand years ago.

    • Matt D

      You’re not honest enough to discuss anything with. GTFO

  • Ferule Bezel

    Why do they always have southern accents? I’m in SoCal where everyone speaks the Generic American Dialect, or whatever proper linguists call it, and we have fundies. Maybe not our fair share but we have them. It’s almost as if one needs to adopt the accent for fundie discred.

    • LizzyJessie

      Midland American. It’s the stereotypical American accent you hear on TV, news broadcasts, and the like.

      The reason a lot of American Fundamentalist Christians seem to have a Southern accent is because the greatest concentration of Fundis are located in the Bible Belt region from Texas on eastward to North Carolina and the northern half of Florida.

      • Lee Miller

        It’s not just the southern midland American accent . . . it’s the whole set of mannerisms, sentence structure, way they present themselves. These guys cannot talk like normal people. There’s no genuineness in their presentation. It’s all scripted. Listen to any TV or radio preacher–no regular person speaks that way, and if they weren’t spouting religious talk everyone would recognize that there’s something wrong with them.

        • LizzyJessie

          Midland and Southern are two distinct accents which reflects the subcultures that produce them.

          As for the Fundamentalist Christian manner of speech, it does seem like a trope on its own doesn’t it? I’m sure the reason it all sounds scripted because it most likely is. Especially when you get to the Preachers and their message delivery: Grab attention, stay on message, and don’t waiver from the sermon.

  • Quintin van Zuijlen

    I’d say if it doesn’t line up with the bible, it stands quite a bit more of a chance of being real science.

    • Randay

      The bible doesn’t line up with itself. How does Rives define “a day”? He admits that the bible says the stars, thus the sun, were created on the 4th “day”. So days could only begin after that. What were the first 3 “days”? God supposedly created the earth before it created the sun. God was rather ineffective since it had to separate the light from the dark three times, Genesis verses 1:4, 1:14, 1:18.

  • Rain

    I don’t think he believes a word he’s saying. Nobody talks like that in real life. Total sociopath. I couldn’t watch that for more than 10 seconds. I could care less what he says and neither could he.

  • Mario Strada

    I knew this day would come. One of these guys went ahead and bought a telescope. We better get in touch with Dr. De grasse Tyson and Phil Plait and let them know the jig is up.
    It was good while it lasted but now that they got one of them telescopes our conspiracy is doomed.

    By the way, you guys. Did you hide that bunny fossil in the pre-cambrian strata? Imagine if they get a hold of that!

  • Mick

    Jesus said “It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest of all seeds on earth.” (Mark 4:31 NIV)

    • islandbrewer

      Um …..


      … THE FALL!

      (Knew there had to be some excuse.)

      • baal

        Ken Ham uses the fall to excuse biblical incest. It’s a weird argument.

        • trj

          Which means according to Ham there’s nothing inherently wrong with incest. It only became wrong after God proclaimed it to be so.

          Yep, fundies sure have a great guide for morality in their faith.

    • Guest

      He also said that if you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could move mountains. Where are all these telekinetic Christians?

      • Spazticus

        You mean the Jedi? The Sith wiped most of them out…

        • guest

          Not all of us. May the Force be with you…and with you….and with you….

      • trj

        Imagine Christians helping out after an earthquake or a tsunami. They could move the debris and rescue the people who are trapped, saving lives by the thousands with their awesome telekinetic powers.

        Yet they never do. If you ask me, it’s very selfish of them to refuse to help out in this way, since they’re obviously capable of it.

    • The Other Weirdo

      Salt grains are seeds?

      • busterggi

        They grow skepticism.

      • Mary

        For size comparison.

    • Tainda

      Those aren’t True Mustard Seeds™

    • Don Gwinn

      It’s wrong of me to encourage your digression, but . . . . if I had faith the size of a mustard seed, could I make mustard seeds smaller than orchid seeds?

  • Peter Hardy
  • A3Kr0n

    Wurl Nut Daily’s wee wee on the world.

  • Guest

    Fucking hell. How can anyone be so dumb and still be able to speak coherently?
    He looks about 12 as well. It’s hard to take him seriously.
    Would like to see him debate the bad astronomy bloke. His arguements would be ripped to shreds in seconds…if he even has any, he just seemed to be making stupid claims without any evidence to back them up.
    Yes, I’m sure your little telescope is much better at finding the truth about the universe than all the multi-million pound equipment at scientific institutions. Now isn’t it past your bedtime, young man?

    • Artor

      Phil Plait has better things to do with his time than talk to a confirmed moron who won’t learn a thing from the experience. I expect he’s taking a dump about now, which is far more productive than spending a second talking to Rives.

  • Alexis

    Space flight, high altitude aviation, even sky scrapers do not line up with the Bible. These should all be running into the firmament that divides the heavens from the earth! Houston, we have a problem, we keep bouncing off of a crystalline structure with portals that occasionally open and release rain.

    • guest

      C’mon, you should know that because of our location at the center of the universe and the flat shape of our Earth that modern physics is bunk. Jeez, some people.

  • XYZ

    Hi! David Rives,,,,,I’m going to send you a dildo so that you can keep your mouth shut…till you wake up from your delusion…Cheers

  • guest

    Well the Bible doesn’t line up with a lot literature that predates it and it also doesn’t line up with any scientific data and evidence we have today about our planet and the biological life forms that inhabit it, our solar system, our galaxy and our place in the universe, so there’s that. He’s a mental midget and should be treated as such. Is he related to Ken Ham or Bananastache?

    • allein

      Loving “Bananastache” :b

  • Oranje

    Wait, I have a telescope. Does that mean I can make money by OD’ing on NyQuil and then babbling whatever hazy thoughts come through my conscience?

    Also, I do love the “things we can see,” argument. Because you can’t see billions of years in the past because of those light years… Oh, right. We can. You twit.

  • Kristin

    But, Mr. Creationist, Were you there?

  • A3Kr0n

    Well, that was my video for today.

    Does Disqus seem to suck longer? Why yes, yes it does.

  • labman57

    The Bible is a collection of allegories and parables (with some elements loosely based on actual historical events) designed, in part, to provide guidelines for expected moral behavior as determined by the religious order of the time … 100% from the minds and hands of a series of mere mortals, not God.

    Anyone who claims that the Bible is a literal account of actual historical events, or that it was written by the Almighty Himself, is living in a state of denial.

    Furthermore, religion was originally developed to answer many of the questions about the natural world that science and common knowledge could not, as well as to provide a sense of order about man’s place in the world to early societies.

    As mankind’s scientific knowledge grew, some religious folks felt uneasy and insecure, fearing that God was being displaced by science, and so they attempted to undermine and discredit both the science and the scientist. This self-serving practice by religious extremists continues to this day.

  • Tom McLachlin

    Thanks for the laugh. David Rives should play at a comedy club. He would have people in stitches.

  • Michael Harrison

    I’m still waiting for apologists to get their story straight on whether the Big Bang is inconsistent with the Bible, or evidence of the Bible’s truth.