Are Atheists Really in the Minority…?

A week after FOX News Channel’s Dana Perino said if atheists — who are in the minority — don’t like the Pledge of Allegiance, “they don’t have to live here,” here’s an argument that it’s really Christians who are in the minority:

Of course, the whole point is that the Constitution says we all have certain rights and the number of us who believe (or choose not to believe) in a god should have no impact on whether or not those rights apply to us.

(via Thunderf00t)

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the chair of Foundation Beyond Belief and a high school math teacher in the suburbs of Chicago. He began writing the Friendly Atheist blog in 2006. His latest book is called The Young Atheist's Survival Guide.

  • Artor

    Hemant, what’s with linking to Thunderf00t’s site? That misogynist asshole doesn’t need any more attention. I’d rather read your own analysis of this.

    It looks like the Thunderf00t minions are here with their downvotes. It must be terrible for him to face consequences for being a shitty excuse for a human.

    • the moother

      Yes, because if we disagree with one thing someone says, we should disagree with EVERYTHING they say?

      • Artor

        No, but we shouldn’t put ad money in his pocket by giving his site hits. I can get insightful commentary on skeptic and atheist issues without a steaming pile of misogyny, so why would I bother following Thunderf00t?

        • the moother

          Who are you to decide that? And why should we listen/care about your opinion anyway?

          Frankly, I’m not impressed with TF and haven’t seen any of his stuff since he made an ass of himself. But you have probably missed one very nuanced part of his point of view: He comes from the UK which is (largely) less backward than Murca with regards to misogyny. He probably didn’t understand too well what everyone was on about… and then when he put up his rants, most people didn’t understand what HE was on about.

          Instead of going after TF you should ask yourself this question: Why, whenever something even mildly feministy is posted on this site is it met with the vile responses that are to be expected from a Murcan audience? Hence, not much of social justice is ever posted here. It seems that Hemant has made it almost policy not to post that stuff because it makes this blog less friendly.

          TF isn’t really a misogynist…, it’s only a label you want to give him… He is an ass, but he doesn’t hate women.

          • Kodie

            If people who don’t live in the US would just shut the fuck up about what it’s really like here sometimes….

            • the moother

              Says the dude from the country that likes to bomb the crap out of every country they can get away with bombing… Seems like Murca can have an opinion on everything…, so I guess the rest of the world is allowed to have an opinion on Murca.

              • Kodie

                I don’t remember myself bombing the crap out of every country. You want to talk about the people then don’t fucking mix that up with foreign policy. If TF is from the UK, if his ignorance about America is how you want to make your point to Artor, then wtf is he critiquing FoxNews for us then? Don’t you have your own news channels?

                • the moother

                  Actually TF has spent very much time in Murca indeed. I didn’t say he was ignorant of Murca (because he’s not), I said (or, at least, meant) that his approach to the situation was not optimal because he approached it from his UK perspective.

                  And, of course, his approach to this video is entirely valid and you don’t need to be a Murcan citizen to make valid comments about Murca. Mostly because, Murcans don’t often seem to make valid comments about Murca so you should be grateful for the outside help.

                  Hemant is probably smarter than the two of us combined and if he thinks this video has merit then I’m pretty sure that your arguing against it is a fools errand.

                  Also, are you too dumb or too lazy to google “bint”?

                • Kodie

                  I know what a “bint” is, it is used by Brits and it’s a put-down, it’s so fucking British, like hating Americans.

                  Edit: I think the point made in the video is sound, it’s just not original, and you did make excuses for TF for sounding sexist but not actually being sexist because that’s for us shitty Americans.

                • the moother

                  Actually the UK comes waaaay down this list of Murca-haters… way behind the whole of Asia and the entire Middle East, much of Africa and a large part of Latin America. In fact, if Murca bent over and opened its butt-cheeks I’m pretty certain David Cameron would crawl right in and roll up into a comfy, warm ball.

                  And, yes, bint is a putdown… he could have used dork or any of a multitude of words but he was correct in noting that your comment sounded like a typical fascist Faux Snooze comment.

                • Kodie

                  Why, because I’m sick of UK blowhard dicks talking about AmericaNS, all of us, like we live in the same sewer you see on the exported news? And you don’t further inform yourself, you just go with the stereotype. What other country in the whole world are you allowed to talk about its people like that and not be considered a bigoted fucktard?

                • the moother

                  Generally when I read sites like this I don’t consider it news for export. Nor when I read Raw Story or Right Wing Watch… These are sites by Murcans and for Murcans. So, what is your point?

                  Also, actually, you’re quite a revolting person… You’re a prime example of the type of Murcan the world loves to hate… Go back to Pharyngula where I’m assuming you’ll feel more at home.

                  Even people of average intelligence seem to get a ratio of upvotes:posts of 2.5:1 and people with 2:1 or less are either extremely unlikable or obtuse or simply trolls.

                  You’re under 2.

                • Kodie

                  Generally when I read sites like this I don’t consider it news for
                  export. Nor when I read Raw Story or Right Wing Watch… These are sites
                  by Murcans and for Murcans. So, what is your point?

                  So you admit you’re uninformed. So easy to hate Americans when that’s all you want to know.

                • the moother

                  How did you get to declare me uninformed based on that?

                  Lemmie tell you this much: From my comfy-chair over here in the civilised world, I’m probably more informed about Murca than 90% of your own compatriots… That’s a sad fact. But it’s a fact nonetheless.

                  It’s a notoriously uninformed country and, if your argument is that because I don’t live there, I can’t possibly get enough (of the right) news, then I’ll just point you to the number of Murcans whose PRIMARY NEWS SOURCE is Faux Snooze or CNN or Glenn Beck or Rush Limtard or Alex Jones or Ted Nugent.

                  So, quit slagging it out with me and go and bother your ignorant countrymen and women to get their acts’ together and get informed.

                • Kodie

                  Because you sound like the UK version of someone who watches Fox News.

                • the moother

                  Wow. I rest my case.

                • Kodie

                  about Murca than 90% of your own compatriots… That’s a sad fact. But it’s a fact nonetheless.

                  ? Right. You derailed the point you were making to take an unnecessary and unfounded shot at Americans (all of us), you called me “revolting”, you called me too dumb or too lazy to look up a word when I was being sarcastic, and you continue to believe lies like an uninformed Fox News viewer would soak up similar “facts” to confirm their bias. And while you were at it, you decided because I defended America to you, that I must be from Pharyngula, a troll, unlikeable, and just like the “bint” on Fox News (although someone else made that “connection”, you followed up and they didn’t).

                  I don’t even know who the fuck you are around here. I haven’t seen you. You seem to have come out of the hole in the wall just to say some shitty opinion you have tying Americans (that is how it’s spelled) and misogyny, which poor little TF from the UK would have no idea what he was saying to a global audience outside his sheltered “civilized world” and he didn’t mean it that way. It’s not lost on me that “bint” is a UK insult toward women. It’s how you deal with women who say things.

                  So far, you are resting what case, exactly? You haven’t made a case, you just act like some kind of thug with no actual argument. You simply hate Americans based on your narrow exposure, and feel free to make baseless assertions.

                  I’m not trying to be nice, but to say I’m a revolting person and unlikeable – who is the troll here? It’s you!

                • the moother

                  I declared you a Pharyngutard because of your style of argument. Or, rather, the lack of it. And now that you toss out the “derailed” trope, it’s a 100% certainty you’re an FTB fool.

                  Like I said, the ratio of your upvotes to your posts is a measure of the quality of your contribution and your’s is very substandard.

                  Also, I’m not British, nor do I live in the UK although I have lived there for 2 years way back when so I am familiar with it.

                  Of course, the major thing I’d like to know is if you know absolutely anything about any country other than Murca? Or if you speak any languages except English. Or if you’ve ever left the continent (Hawaii doesn’t count).

                  My case is rested in that you are a revolting person. In that you have no contribution to make. And in that your assessment of me being unknowledgeable of Murca is unfounded. And, frankly, stupid. Just like you.

                • Kodie

                  You’re not making any cases yet.

                • LesterBallard

                  Give the “Murca” shit a rest, please.

                • the moother

                  I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. It’s Murca. and it’s Mucans.

                  There are plenty of people from Tierra del Fuego to Zenith point who find it offensive when Murca is called “America” and Murcans are called “Americans” because they are also Americans and they also live in America.

                  Would you prefer USAsia and USAsians?

                • smrnda

                  I use “The States” or “Stateside” myself, as the US (where I am currently living) does not take up the whole continent, but I would also not use “Murrca” whatever you’re doing, since I don’t think making fun of regional accents is a particularly polite thing to do – even if people from a particular religion are poorly informed, ignorant, or even hateful, one should counter the nonsense they actually believe in and not make fun of how people pronounce words.

                  Making fun of regional accents in the USA is strongly associated with both racism and classism, and I’d imagine that the same holds for the UK, as I recall Orwell writing that his parents tried to keep him from hanging out with working-class kids so he would not acquire their pronunciations.

                • the moother

                  Yes, I could use those two…, But then I’m only referring to the country… The conundrum comes with how to refer to the inhabitants. And US Americans just doesn’t cut it.

                  So I settle for Murcans. To keep everything consistent, I use the Murca/Murcans combination.

                  Also, I’m not making fun of any accents, merely using a word that is close enough to the original to be clear but at the same time far enough from the original not to to be offensive to the rest of America.

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  You’re deliberately being an asshole. Knock it off.

                • the moother

                  You are free not to read my posts.

                  You are also free to give evidence of your assertion that TF argued FOR harassment.

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  Thank God I don’t play the Drinking Game with the sentence:moronic fallacies ratio in posts, or you’d have just wrecked me for the evening. You’re showing desperation here.

                • the moother

                  Welcome, other Pharyngulite… more horde reinforcements on their way?

                • C.L. Honeycutt

                  Awww, poor angrums. So desperate for an argument, and too stupid to know that I’ve criticized Pharyngula here repeatedly, and said several times that I don’t bother with it anymore.

                  Of course, if you weren’t desperate and tribalistic, you might be able to think clearly enough to realize that the Pharyngula in-crowd is terrible, but the TF crowd is far, far worse. TF was so nasty when he left FtB as to make the Pharyngulisees look like decent people, which was a crime in itself.

                  Pity you’re too dull and defensive to realize that you’re propping up someone who is documented as having committed a crime in regards to FtB and having put people in actual danger in doing so.

                • the moother

                  TF’s criminal activity aside, can you quote to me where you think I have “propped him up”? Also, any word on where he’s argued for harassment?

                  (P.S. TF’s followers are less his followers than they are enemies of equality…, Shit just sticks to a blanket rather well…)

                • WillBell

                  Have you checked your own upvotes ratio recently?

                • 3lemenope

                  I’m just floored there are people who care about something like “upvote ratio”. Is this armchair website commentary or the Game of Life? (And do I get points for hitting pedestrians, and if so, is the number of points related in any way to their age?)

            • Mike De Fleuriot

              You do realise you sound like that bint from FoxNews, with that comment.

              • Kodie

                I’m just sick of uninformed people getting their impressions of people who live in the US off “bints” (wtf is a bint) on Fox News.

                • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                  According to The Free Dictionary, “bint” is a derogatory term for a girl or woman. (IOW, a sexist slur.)

          • UWIR

            ” Why, whenever something even mildly feministy is posted on this site is it met with the vile responses that are to be expected from a Murcan audience?”
            What are you talking about?

            • the moother

              I’m talking about the moaning and whining and kicking and screaming in the comments when (a woman, generally) posts here about equal rights/feminism/equality.

              The comments immediately light up with madness including stupidity like “HEY THIS IS AN ATHEIST BLOG, NOT A FEMINIST BLOG!!!!!one!”

              No matter how benign the article… but I haven’t seen such posts in at least a year and I’m assuming that’s because of the vile reactions in the comments.

        • CB

          Hmmmm!

          I never followed TF, but I do enjoy his actual science videos and early pwnage videos.

          The whole elevatorgate debacle seems silly and pointless. I’m not quite sure what it’s all about. I feel bad for Rebecca though. I feel like the trolls won’t let her talk about anything but their misogynistic obsessions… although maybe she could do a better job sidelining and ignoring them? I dunno…

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            If Rebecca ignored them, they would claim that it wasn’t actually a big deal because she wasn’t talking about it. It’s not about being on the right side to them; it’s about getting her.

            • CB

              It’s not about getting her, it’s about shutting her up.

              If your profile is set to private, no one will be able to see your replies.

          • Artor

            It shouldn’t be her burden to ignore relentless and coordinated attacks. People should have the decency to not be flaming assholes.

            • CB

              Of course it shouldn’t be, but it is!

              … if she wants to be heard.

              The goal of the people who are attacking Rebecca is to shut her up, and to whatever extent they’ve succeeded, it takes away her voice, which I think is sad because there aren’t many vocal female skeptics out there.

              I probably approach it from a slightly different perspective. I actually study people like that and welcome interactions with them.

        • rg57

          Probably because he’s not a misogynist, and his videos contain good content. Thunderf00t has donated good amounts of money to other YouTubers for the promotion of science and skepticism to a world-wide audience.

          • Nancy Shrew

            Shitty people can occasionally do good things.

            • Artor

              Yes, but if good people are doing the same things, why should we bother with the shitty ones?

              • Nancy Shrew

                I think I was misunderstood. I meant that shitty people can do good things, but they are still shitty people. I’m on your side here.

        • http://abb3w.livejournal.com/ abb3w

          Because, in with his steaming piles of misogyny, he sometimes expresses ideas in a way more insightful than average. So, while he’s likely not worth your trouble to follow regularly, when one of his videos is singled out as having particularly insightful ideas, it’s worth watching so that you can dredge them out of the sewer of his channel, clean off any sludge, and then find opportunities to put them in better circulation. (An analogy could probably be developed to how a scientist being religious does not make all of their work completely worthless.)

          Plus, if he gets more hits for videos on non-misogynist topics than when spewing his misogyny, it’s possible (not that I’d hold my breath) that differential might act as an environmental stimulus contributing to behavior modification.

          However, I don’t blame you for not bothering. Though there are exceptions and YMMV, I find internet videos tend to take more of my time yet have (subjectively) lower quality ideas, compared to text posts.

      • Kodie

        I don’t think it’s an original thought. He just makes videos to go with them.

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        Trying flipping it over. “If we have one thing in common with someone, should we then enable them as they do and say awful things out of tribalism?”

    • DaveDodo007

      Feel free to show that TF is a misogynist asshole or do we have to just accept your word for it. Also because you don’t like his opinions are you saying his voice should be censored. You American atheists are scaring me with your black and white thinking. You do realize that without free speech none of us atheists would ever have been allowed to have a voice in the first place, we are still the minority (and a hated one at that.) Yet you wish to silence views you don’t like the first chance you get. Unbelievable.

      • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

        He’s argued in favor of harassment, and doesn’t understand the concept of consent.

        • M Huler

          I’d like to see your evidence that TF has argued in favour of harassment please. Otherwise this is just a smear.

          • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

            He actually argued that he didn’t need consent to chew on someone’s leg.

            • DaveDodo007

              Playfully pretending to chew on a friends leg makes you a rape apologist, misogynist asshole. Fuck me, original sin has got nothing on you. Judgement twit.

              • C.L. Honeycutt

                Misrepresenting what he said and the context in which he said it. Christian apologists have got nothing on you.

                • DaveDodo007

                  Who? What? When? At least give me a frame of reference so I can refute or own up to?

            • the moother

              The consent/leg-chewing aside… where did he argue in favour of harassment?

            • UWIR

              So, every time someone asks you to defend one of your statements, are you going to just present another unsupported claim? Is your argument turtles all the way down?

            • rg57

              Let’s have the actual quote, in it’s original context, OK? That shouldn’t be too hard.

          • C.L. Honeycutt

            Googling would be hard, right? It isn’t as if it’s an obscure topic.

            • the moother

              So, there are no new posts on Pharyngula the whole day so you thought you’d bring that style of argumentation/abuse this way?

              Where did he argue in favour of harassment? I searched google for that and couldn’t find it.

              Tell us, link it, or look like a liar.

              • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                He argued that anti-harassment policies were “unnecessary” and whined about how it would put a crimp in his leg-biting habit if he had to *gasp* ask permission first.

                • the moother

                  That’s hardly arguing FOR harassment… But I’m sure that you can make the argument that not supporting the Civil Rights Act is arguing FOR racism. And, while it might well be true that someone who voted against the act is a racist, you’d be on shaky ground to use the same logic to say that TF was an harasser.

                  I know you’re not saying that – but I’m saying that the logic is faulty. You see, in the civilised world, there is no need for anti-harassment policies at cons and that’s what he was arguing. His major fault was thinking that Murca is a member of the civilised world. Across the pond, where harassment certainly exists, victims have redress and they are respected and taken seriously. Slut-shaming and victim blaming and outright denial are not things that happen all too often. Victims are taken seriously and harassers are punished. Harassment policies, while not a bad thing, are certainly not needed in the way they are in Murca.

                  I’ve said he was an ass, because he is an ass. but the TF haters not only fail to understand where he was coming from, they are also a whiney mob. And that’s a shame to have to single someone out to harass in a case that is all about harassment!

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        It’s been covered extensively and compiled in prominent locations. If you aren’t familiar with it and are talking anyway, that’s your fault.

        You do realize that without free speech none of us atheists would ever
        have been allowed to have a voice in the first place, we are still the
        minority (and a hated one at that.) Yet you wish to silence views you
        don’t like the first chance you get.

        This has nothing to do with free speech. You are ignorant of the concept and are just trying to libel people. Unbelievable.

        • rg57

          “prominent locations” LOL. You mean he’s been smeared on a niche blog network because he didn’t fall in with the party line, despite being given explicit assurances that he was free to disagree. He was brought in specifically to be made an example of, and that’s pretty shabby.

        • DaveDodo007

          I know we are divided by a common language but can you at least make sense?

      • Artor

        No, you don’t have to accept my word. Thunderf00t himself has done an excellent job of proving the point. If you aren’t aware of it, you either haven’t been paying attention, or you need to examine your own biases. Equating a desire not to listen to ignorant MRA drivel does not equal censorship, and it’s entirely laughable that you make such a comparison. You just lost any credibility you might have had. Did I attempt to silence anyone? No, I expressed a disinterest in a particular opinion.

    • Kevin_Of_Bangor

      Ladies and Gentlemen – Conway Twitty

      http://youtu.be/d2aeRg_yMSE

    • rg57

      I’ve seen what happened to Thunderf00t and the underhanded way in which he was treated by the FtB crew, and similar bigots.

      Of all the online atheists, he had taken the lead on ensuring false DMCA claims do not succeed, and people like creationists, our religious opponents, and FtB do get away with their censorship. It will be exposed, and where illegal it will be followed with legal action.

      Also, his is one of the few atheist channels doing actual science, both in the field, and in a real lab. He’s not a loudmouth do-nothing blogger, like most of his critics.

      • Artor

        Yeah, it was so underhanded how they kicked him out for being a dick, and then he hacked into an e-mail list to spy on private conversations. And after he coordinated those relentless attacks against Watson et al, it’s outrageous that people would want nothing to do with him.

  • CanuckAmuck

    Is there someone else covering this item? I don’t want to give that TF ass the hits.

    • DaveDodo007

      Grow up, you don’t have to like a person to agree with what they are saying.

      • C.L. Honeycutt

        Grow up and lose the tribalism, you don’t have to give someone the time of day just because you have one thing in common.

        • rg57

          LOL. Pot, meet kettle.

  • James_Jarvis

    Excuse this Canadian’s ignorance but I have always taught your constitution prohibited the favouring of any religion over another or the establishment of any religion by the government. If the fair and balanced folks at Fox news say this is not so I am clearly in the wrong. Also, I can never remember which clause in the constitution gives the majority the right to impose its will on the rest.

    • Mitch

      I am humbled by you, sir. You have considered what our Constitution says more than a lot of us Americans.

    • Kevin_Of_Bangor

      I can never remember which clause in the constitution gives the majority the right to impose its will on the rest.

      That would be the Jesus clause.

      • LDavidH

        No, nothing to do with religion of any sort. Democracy is by definition the right of the majority to impose their will on the rest. One would hope that the majority would then consider the minorities and allow them freedoms and rights as well, but that’s not inherent in the concept of democratic rule by majority vote.

        And from a European perspective, atheists are definitely the majority over here…

        • wyntre

          Except that American was founded as and technically still is a republic in the which representatives make decisions and not the people themselves. We are a Democratic republic yes, but not a democracy.

          “And to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, for liberty and justice for all.”

          The big stink FOX is talking about is the insertion of “under god,” which wasn’t apart of the Pledge of Allegiance originally.

  • onefuriousllama

    Outstanding video by Thunderf00t once again. Thanks for posting it Hemant.

  • M Huler

    I agree with the premise of the video, nothing like the tyranny of the majority.The ending makes a quote come to mind, along the lines of just believing in one less god than them, and when they understand why they do not believe in others, they will understand me.

    Also, Uh-oh Hemant. Looks like you posted a Thunderf00t video. A few people will be here complaining that you did so as to them he is a person to be shunned for having opinions differing from theirs. Words like: Bigot, Misogynist etc will appear, and they have nothing to do with the content of this video. Do not judge the content on the creator.

    • C.L. Honeycutt

      Wah.

  • A3Kr0n

    He just put that out today, and already it has over 33K views. Wow.

  • Sam Kay

    This was beautiful in its hypocrisy: “Why should they be catered to? Why are they so special? I’m telling you that I find it offensive that a few people… These children are pawns for their parents’ political statements and beliefs… To try an enforce it on everyone else and inflict their belief system. It’s incredibly selfish, it’s small-minded, and I don’t think the courts should cater to them. There’s no good reason to do so.”

    Too bad she has the whole situation backwards.

    • Steve Bakewell

      The irony alone just makes me die of laughter.

  • the moother

    In a country that trumpets freedom and freedom of religion and the constitution a whole lot, they certainly understand very little about it all.

    • http://www.secularview.com/ Dirty_Nerdy

      FREEZE PEACH!

      Tell me, do those who wish to criticize TF also get these frozen peaches? Or is this argument only to be used in order to silence criticism?

      • the moother

        Wow! It seems more to me like the TF haters are the ones doing the silencing… And it seems to be a small group of petulant morons.

        They are entitled to their peaches.

        • http://www.secularview.com/ Dirty_Nerdy

          Then your comment about freedom of speech makes little sense. Nobody’s calling for the government to silence TF. They simply specifically asked if there was any other youtuber covering it because they don’t personally like TF or wish to listen to him. So, if TF has freedom of speech, then so do those who criticize him. Also, with freedom of speech and religion comes freedom of association. Those who don’t wish to hear from TF or associate with him are free to do so. Which means they are free to *gasp* not watch his videos and ask if a different atheist youtuber is covering it.

          So, if TF has his freedom of speech, and the people criticizing him and expressing their wish to hear from a different atheist ALSO have their freedom of speech, then it is quite pointless for you to prattle on about it as if it has any bearing on this topic.

          • the moother

            And you’re right. It makes not sense because it wasn’t about TF. It’s about Faux Snooze… You see, it’s a comment on this post directly and not a reply to anything.

            Would you like me to spell it out for you, exactly what I meant, or are you capable of that without going off on another tangent? Or would you like to prattle on as if my comment has anything to do with your replies?

            • http://www.secularview.com/ Dirty_Nerdy

              Your comment seemed to be directed at the conversation about TF. If it was not, then I retract my statement directed at you. I will note however that there have been others on this thread who used the “freeze peach” argument in the TF thread. If that was not you, then it seems I have my commenters mixed up.

            • http://www.secularview.com/ Dirty_Nerdy

              I looked at the thread again. It was somebody else who said that in relation to the TF thread. My apologies, I got my threads mixed up.

              • the moother

                Gracious of you and accepted :)

                You might also have seen that I have repeatedly called TF an ass. And I fully accept that he has a right to publicly and repeatedly show us that he is an ass. Although I seem to get an awful lot of petulant downvotes for pointing out the blindingly obvious!

                Freedom of speech is also to protect unpopular opinions. And, in this, Faux Snooze proves time and time again that they don’t understand the concept. Tell them that “under god” is offensive to some and maligns others and they will trumpet their own freedom of speech while at the same time telling people that have spoken otherwise that they should just leave the country.

                • http://www.secularview.com/ Dirty_Nerdy

                  I agree with you that freedom of speech is meant to protect unpopular opinions (because popular opinions don’t really need protecting). The part that annoys me is when people don’t respond to criticism with anything other than saying “But free speech!” as if the people criticizing a person are advocating government censorship just by voicing their disagreement. It seems like a really shallow way of avoiding the need to address criticism and automatically cast your opponent as somehow against freedom of speech.

                  ETA: and yes, Faux Noise does this all the time. They have a funny way of claiming that a person saying “Hey, what you’re advocating oppresses a lot of people and is harmful” is the oppressor or the intolerant one. It’s actually a common tactic for the oppressors to take on the language of the oppressed in order to defend the status quo and quell opposition.

    • Matt D

      *fixed*
      In a country that trumpets freedom and freedom of religion and the constitution a whole lot, Fox News certainly understand very little about it all.

  • Kodie

    They are un-American.

  • rg57

    ” should have no impact on whether or not those rights apply to us. ”

    Except, apparently, when it comes to tax time. Hope you can get that fixed.

  • Susan_G1

    C’mon, these fox commenters are idiots. Like the man said, everyone turned out fine without “one nation under God.”

    Again, much of the identity is focused on the ridicule of Christians (in particular).

    • allein

      Christians get most of the criticism in the US because they are the most prominent and they are the ones pushing their religious beliefs and practices into our government and schools. If it was a different religion doing those things, we would be criticizing that religion. And why do you seem to think that what we say here is our entire “identity”?

  • UWIR

    Just where is the argument that Christians are the minority? Mehta has already posted the Fox video. Now he’s posting it two more times while linking to the original? This is a bit silly.

  • DaveDodo007

    This is un-fucking-believable. We have a dogmatic Christian condemning atheists and when an atheist stands up to them, well we have dogmatic atheists condemning the atheist standing up for the rights of atheists and against free speech. No wonder Fox News reporters are running scared and trying to cut you off at the pass. You are already building the Gulags in your mind, you are ideological monsters just waiting to impose your will on all you have judged guilty. Give me a liberal American Christian over the evil monsters that are mostly the American atheists any day of the week.

  • http://www.secularview.com/ Dirty_Nerdy

    FREEZE PEACH!!

    There are sooo many frozen peaches in this comment thread. I wonder where the people who criticize Thunderfoot could get some of these peaches…

    • Graham Martin-Royle

      I’ve seen the “FREEZE PEACH” comment a couple of times but I have no idea what it means or where it’s come from. Could you explain it please. Thanks.

      • allein

        Say it 5 times fast. Freeze peach = free speech.

        • Graham Martin-Royle

          Doh! So simple when it’s explained, :-) Thanks allein.

          • allein

            lol…don’t feel bad, it took me a few minutes the first time I encountered it, too ;)

  • Jarosław Michalak

    Unfortunately, the second argument is flawed and it weakens the atheist position…

    Most different denominations have nothing agaist saying “Under God” in the pledge. Therefore they are, as such, a majority, despite their differences. Moreover, it is rather unlikely that one denomination will gain a significant advantage, therefore none of the FOX bullies will find themselves in the minority position any time soon.

  • Vincent Bonner

    Why does the narrator have to have British (?) accent??

  • Robyman4

    Since Perino has advocated that atheists move to another country because of their lack of belief in the Lord Almighty, my rejoinder is that I vehemently refute the notion that I am compelled to abandon my residential predilections on the basis of my spiritual perfidy – not to mention the fact that I was given the full rights of a United States citizen the moment I was born. I certainly wish she could read an answer like that: I’d pay an awful lot of money to see how she tries to cope with it. The simple facts are that I like living in the land of my birth, I speak out loudly and frequently about being an atheist, and I am not going anywhere.


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