Dear Richard

I’m an atheist living in Oklahoma, and I’ve always tried to be open with my children, yet responsible in how we discuss religion, etc. Their mother (we are divorced) is a Christian and told my 10 year old daughter that I was going to “go to hell”, because I didn’t believe in God. My daughter came to me in tears a few days later terrified that this was true. I was very upset about the matter and stumbled in my words. I think I did convince her that I wasn’t going to any such place, and that she ended up feeling better.

But I feel I didn’t respond very well to her fear. Could you give me some advice on how to handle such situations in the future?

Thanks.
Wyatt

Dear Wyatt,

This is revolting, outrageous, and harmful. It has to stop.

Divorced parents sometimes fall into a pattern that family therapists call “triangulation.” This is where one parent will use a child to communicate something indirectly to the other parent because he or she doesn’t want to communicate directly.

Sometimes what they communicate is their hatred.

She’s warning your daughter to not be like you, but to be like her, and she’s using fear to enforce that. The implication is just under the surface that if the girl thinks like you, then she will join you in hell. If your daughter hasn’t realized that implied threat yet, she will soon. Your ex-wife is putting your daughter into a bind, where her natural love and loyalty for you must conflict with her natural love and loyalty for her mother. This will pull the girl in two directions, and can cause serious emotional harm.

Your ex-wife is also telling you that she disapproves of your atheism, but she’s using your daughter to deliver the message. The girl’s terror from the prospect of her daddy being tormented in hell assures that the message comes wrapped up in a big black ribbon of loathing. She’s using your daughter as a weapon against you, and she seems to be either unaware of the damage she is doing to her child, or she doesn’t care. I hope it’s the former.

You should do two things; communicate directly with your ex-wife to put a stop to this, and begin to build a rational dialogue with your 10-year-old daughter.

Set up a meeting with your ex-wife that will be free of interruptions or distractions, and will not be overheard by any children. You must remain calm and collected, regardless of the feelings that come up for either of you. You can describe your feelings, but you must remain in control of them. You will discredit yourself if you lose your temper. Describe to her what your daughter was going through when she came to you in tears. Tell her that this is destructive and unacceptable. She should not teach a little girl things that terrify her about the people she loves the most, her parents. If your ex-wife has thoughts or feelings about you, she should express them clearly and directly to you, and not use your daughter as a messenger. If she refuses to reconsider, then tell her that if she persists with this emotional abuse, it is grounds for a re-evaluation of the custody arrangements.

If you don’t think you can get all that communicated without either of you shouting or ending it prematurely, then write it all down in a calm, cool letter and deliver it to your ex-wife. Assume that she will keep it and perhaps show it to others, so make certain it is rational, factual, and civil.

During this whole process, document everything. Dates, times, places, and what your daughter, your ex-wife, and you have said and done. Hopefully you won’t need it, but documentation is important to have just in case this has to go before a judge. I realize that in Oklahoma, depending on the judge, an atheist father can face an uphill battle against a Christian mother, but if she continues to do such dreadful things, it’s a battle that you owe your daughter. Behave as if you’re always on camera. Your conduct must be that of an excellent parent, and a fair and reasonable ex-husband.

When you and your daughter are talking about your ex wife, take the high road. Don’t do any triangulating in return. That would only tear her in half all the more. Tell her that you know she loves her mommy and you know she loves you, and that is all okay. You will never try to make her choose between who she must love. You’re glad that she’s such a loving, caring child.

Tell her that her mother and other people believe those things about God, but you and other people don’t, and she can make up her own mind about it. She can think one way for a while, and change her mind if she wishes, and think about it some more over a long time. Whenever she has questions, she can ask you and you’ll always be honest with her. Tell her that the most important thing to remember is that you will always love her and care for her no matter what she decides.

You must live up to that. A love that is without condition is far more attractive and far more nurturing than a love that requires adherence to a set of beliefs.

Ten years old is about the age when simple rational thought processes can take a stronger hold. You can begin a rational dialogue with her. If she is still worried about you going to hell, ask her things like these, perhaps just two questions at a time: “Do you think I’m a good person? Does it make sense to terribly punish a good person? Would you punish a good person? Does it make sense that a god who’s supposed to be loving would punish a good person?” Keep these brief, and let her answers be whatever they are.

In this way, you’re introducing the idea of comparing the beliefs she has been taught to what “makes sense.” You’re giving her permission to examine beliefs in the light of sensibleness. That permission is the beginning of rational thinking.

Ten years old is also about the age when children can understand adults’ emotions when they’re shared honestly but in a gentle manner. For instance, if she tells you something that floors you as much as when she came to you in anguish about hell, you don’t have to keep up a perfectly composed façade. You can gently say that wow, you’re knocked over by it, and you’ll have to stumble around for a moment to respond to her. That honesty, that willingness to candidly share your vulnerability will tell her that “Daddy is honest with me about feelings, not just about facts. He’s real with me. I don’t need him to be perfect. I need him to be real.” I think she will increasingly turn to you to learn what’s real both in the world around us, and in the world within.

When one parent pushes a version of religion that is so ugly, so full of extortion and fear, while the other parent teaches rationality by example and gives permission to decide for herself, then the rational path will become the far more attractive of the two.

Hopefully without a legal fight your ex-wife will stop this very negative and harmful approach to teaching her religion, and she will be more direct in her communications with you. I wish more peace and harmony for all three of you.

Richard

You may send your questions for Richard to . Please keep your letters concise. They may be edited. There is a very large number of letters. I am sorry if I am unable to respond in a timely manner.

Dear Richard,

I am a divorced mother whose religious ex-husband has custody of my daughter. He chose to send her to a religious high school, which she has attended for 3 years. Recently, she started asking a lot of questions about her religion, which has caused people to suspect she doesn’t believe in God. Her science teacher, who caught wind of this when she didn’t agree with his disparaging comments on evolution, has now started to pick on her, getting into confrontations with her about subjects ranging from evolution to global warming to abortion, etc. This teacher is one of the angry, confrontational, red-faced types, who is always ranting about random topics, making disparaging comments at people, and spewing nonsense whenever he feels like it. Unfortunately, complaining to the school about this has achieved nothing, and the kids tend to egg him on into acting like this daily by purposely asking questions that rile him up, and then agreeing with him and attacking my daughter when she respectfully disagrees. I have no control to pull her out of the school, but my daughter is miserable and needs advice on how to deal with this situation. My ex refuses to help in any way. Do you have anything to offer?

Thanks and Regards,
Exasperated Mother

Dear Exasperated,

Your daughter has a strong spirit and a sharp mind, and I admire her willingness and ability to challenge her teacher so bravely and so frequently. I have to wonder if she is quite as miserable as you think, since she voluntarily does this so bravely and so frequently. When her teacher foolishly allows himself to be goaded by the other kids into one of his rants, she could just sit there quietly letting him make an ass of himself, but instead she speaks up and challenges him with her respectful disagreement. She has not been cowed by his ad hominem attacks in return. She keeps doing it. She has more courage and pluck than I do at three and a half times her age.

I can understand her frustration because they don’t respond reasonably or honorably to her respectful challenges, but she may be unhappy for other reasons. One might be that her intellectual hunger is not being satisfied by the school. Some religious schools have high academic standards, but some push education through a filter that removes anything that conflicts with dogma. They also often discourage students from asking probing questions that go too far, and cannot be answered by whatever diluted, cliché, simplistic explanations have made it through the filter.

Another reason that she might be unhappy is that her need to ask tough questions about both religion and science sets her apart socially, and if other kids are beginning to suspect that she doesn’t believe in God, she might be feeling the beginnings of shunning by her peers.

The most important thing for you to do is to strengthen your bond with her. She needs adult allies, and you are the only suitable adult described in your letter. Since your ex husband has custody, your time with her is presumably limited. Make the most of it by making it easy and safe for her to share with you her thoughts and doubts about everything and anything. Help her to freely express whatever she discovers in her explorations of her beliefs, giving her full permission and license to believe, to doubt, to question, and to tentatively try on answers to see how they fit. Let changing her mind always be a completely legitimate option.

Give her access to any books or materials that will answer her questions about religion and science better than whatever is inadequate that the school offers. Encourage her to find friends who seem to have that same demanding curiosity, or who at least do not judge her for having that wonderful quality. Having just one or two comrades will get her through the last year of high school. If no one at school is suitable, help her find social outlets in a club or some kind of activity for young people that is not centered around religion.

Always take the high road when helping her deal with your ex husband. Even if she disagrees with her father on important issues, she will have natural loyalties to him as well as to you. Letting her know that you understand that will help to prevent tension building in her trying to satisfy both loyalties, like a rope stretched too tight. Let your growing bond with your daughter be an alliance for the two of you, but not an alliance against him.

Now for two sets of advice directly to your daughter:

Hello. Apparently these classroom discussions are not resulting in your getting called in to the Principal’s office or some other authoritarian tactic. It’s apparently something that the teacher is permitting to happen. If you are initiating these arguments by asking challenging questions or disagreeing, and if you don’t mind the attacks and whatever social fallout there is, then all you have to do is improve your argumentation skills. When the teacher or classmates attack you rather than what you ask or say, then with a nonchalant shrug say, “That remark about me does not answer my question,” or “Attacking something about me does not attack my argument,” or “Coming back with an insult means you couldn’t come back with a good argument.” If the teacher or a student makes an unlikely sounding claim, say, “Since this is a science class, I’m just curious what scientific evidence there is to back up that claim.” Always put the burden of proof onto the person making the claim. If they say “You can’t prove it’s wrong,” Calmly (always calmly) reply, “You’re the one who is saying it’s true, so it’s up to you to prove that it’s true. I’m just not convinced by you simply saying that it’s true.” Smile nicely, with no hint of triumph or smugness. Really be as open to acceptable, credible evidence as you are saying you are.

However I can understand that for a young person that kind of critical arguing and debating can be intimidating. If it seems too risky, or if you’re just getting tired of it all, then here is another way to channel the energy of your demanding curiosity into something that keeps you from becoming too frustrated:

Hold your tongue, and switch to Secret Psychologist Mode. Think of the classroom as your lab, and the teacher and the other kids are subjects whom you are studying. Quietly watch how they interact. Look for the intentions underneath the things that people are saying. See how some kids are the provocateurs who try to goad the teacher into some off-topic rant, probably just for the entertainment value. See how some kids are the yes-persons, looking for a chance to please the teacher by agreeing with him. There will probably be a couple of class clowns, who either provide release from mounting tension by making people laugh with a clever wisecrack, or who are sneaking in some frustration or anger of their own disguised as a sarcastic joke. Notice the quieter ones in the background. Some are interested but seem intimidated. Some are bored and are distracting themselves. There might be one person who sits there quietly and seems to be observing in the same detached kind of way that you are. Catch that person’s eye. You might have found an ally. Take notes about what you observe, and keep them safe.

The teacher himself? There’s enough material there for a Master’s Thesis. He might not be very good at teaching science, and he might be a boorish person, but you can think of him as a gift. You can turn him into something useful for you, a good practice subject for a young woman who is becoming a keen observer of human nature. Whatever walk of life you end up taking, that skill is extremely valuable.

Mother and daughter, I wish you both well. Love and support each other. Stay relaxed and positive. Find the useful thing, information, or lesson in every situation. Share what you learn. Both of you make the other person a lucky person.

Richard
**Update** The letter writer has left a comment under her own name that clarifies some important details, and so my response is amended in my reply to her to focus more on directly combating the teacher’s abuse of her daughter. Please find this in the comments below.

You may send your questions for Richard to . Please keep your letters concise. They may be edited. There is a very large number of letters. I am sorry if I am unable to respond in a timely manner.

Julia Sweeney and Mulan (center) with the hosts of the Humanist Network News Podcast

Since Mulan wasn’t raised with religious beliefs, a lot of the story was brand new to her…:

Mulan and I watched it. I thought maybe it was a good way for her to learn about Jesus. HA. She was so bewildered. I realized that since she hasn’t been inculcated with religious behaviors, everything just seems weird to her. Things I would have never had the naive open-mindedness to even ask. For example, at one point she asked me, “Why do those sick people want to touch Jesus?” I said, “Because they think he’s magic and can heal them.” Mulan said, “Why would anyone think that?” Me: “Because they didn’t have very much scientific information.” Mulan: “That’s crazy.” Then I had to stop the film and tell her that lots of people in the world still believe things like that.

Later she asked, “Why are all those women putting oil on Jesus’ head, and sort of leaning on him like that?” I said, “Well, one — Mary Magdalene, is like Jesus’ girlfriend. The other women — well, when you’re a cult leader, or actually this can be true of any very high status man — women fawn all over you.” “Creepy.” Mulan said. Then she fell asleep and I didn’t wake her up.

If they weren’t so used to their own mythology, you have to figure Christians would completely dismiss the idea of a talking snake, a woman being created from the rib of a man, and a guy rising from the dead…

Have any of you had similar teaching experiences with your children?

This is an excerpt from the bad people stole my god by Doug Philips. Philips was a devout Catholic for 40 years before becoming a “full blown non-believer.” The Kindle version of the book is currently available for free. ***Edit***: The free trial has expired, but the book is still relatively cheap

…

Easily the most unexpected and ironic twists to my irreligious epiphany has been the barrage of a particular criticism that continues to land on me like wayward pigeon droppings. “You shouldn’t impose your beliefs (or your adult beliefs) on the children!”

The sometimes direct and sometimes overt implication from these criticisms is that by choosing not to teach my children unverifiable, supernatural mythologies, I’m somehow exposing them to something (reality) that they are not mature enough to handle. Far better for me to teach them that believers in the correct god(s) go to heaven and non-believers in the correct god(s) go to hell, but don’t worry my adoring child, our god is the RIGHT god — all those nice children around the world that are being taught about the WRONG god are going to hell; sleep tight.

Before I expound on what I consider to be a painfully obvious irony, let me first itemize what I do and do not impose on my children.

BELIEFS THAT I DO IMPOSE ON MY CHILDREN:

• When they ask me if I believe in god I impose on them that I don’t but I used to, and even though I don’t think that I’m wrong, I very well might be completely mistaken on the subject. I ALWAYS explain that their lives are their own and that they are always free to believe whatever they care to (except for Scientology because it’s just too expense of a nonsense indulgence). I explain that I’ll always be honest with them and I will always do the best that I can to explain not only why I believe the things that I believe but what other people believe and the reasons that I think that they most likely believe what they believe. And as I do on most subjects, I explain to them that despite my relative brilliance, I am an expert resource on absolutely nothing and that far better information can be obtained from far smarter people than dear old dad.
• I impose on them that most people DO believe in a god or a number of gods, and that it’s a very important matter to many, many people. I insist that they be respectful of other people’s beliefs and when they are old enough to understand I’ll explain why certain beliefs do not deserve respect (for — an exaggerated — example: a belief that human sacrifice can help bring a bountiful harvest; science clearly demonstrates that human sacrifice adds no statically significant bounty to harvests unless the corpses are used as fertilizer).
• When they ask me if I will go to heaven when I die, I tell them very lightheartedly that another life after this life would be great, but I don’t happen to think that such a thing happens; all I know for sure is that I’ll always be in their hearts and that’s all that matters to me.
• I impose on them that love, happiness and treating people with kindness are good things to focus on and that it’s a far better use of their time focusing on making their lives great than worrying about what happens to people when they die.
• I impose on them to the best of my ability that human beings evolved over millions of years just like all the mountains of empirical, testable and falsify-able scientific evidence suggest. If future discoveries disprove evolution or any other scientific knowledge, then all the better for whatever it is that humans have learned about the world in which we live.
• I impose on them that there are no such things and ghosts, monsters, fairies, witches, devils or gremlins. And I would tell them that Santa was bullshit if not for the backlash I’d likely receive from my wife and other parents. Seriously, how nonsensical are we thinking that Christmas morning would somehow be less exiting to a child if he knew that Santa was make-believe? There’s a reason that so many kids are afraid to sit on Santa’s lap in the mall. I’ve never understood why we feel compelled to treat children like morons. On a side note, is there anything more apropos than the fact that the two most seminal traditions in Christianity are most popularly associated with some of the most inane, nonsensical, secular traditions with which we indulge. A fat magic toymaker that, like god, perpetually oversees your behavior even when you sleep, and leaves presents under fresh cut forest trees that we prop up in our homes as we celebrate the arbitrary birthday (which is simply a rip-off of pagan solstice celebrations) of the CHILD of the being that created the universe. And an egg loving rabbit that sneaks into our homes leaving plastic eggs and candy on the day the that we celebrate the resurrection from the dead of said CHILD of the being that created the universe. We even incorporate these two moronic fictional characters into our religious celebrations to entertain the kids during our overcrowded, protracted religious services on the special days. The only thing more idiotic is how rarely an eyebrow rises at our ubiquitous infatuation with make-believe when we contemplate our religious convictions.
• That being said, I love imagination and make-believe (when it’s understood to be make-believe) and I also impose on my children that one of humanities greatest talents is creativity; I constantly urge them to stretch their minds in every direction. But I also impose on them that make-believe is make-believe and that reality is reality. Radical, I know.
• I impose on my children that earthquakes are caused be shifting tectonic plates. That hurricanes, tornados, lightening, hail, sun-showers and rainbows are naturally occurring and scientifically explainable events and not the whimsical play-toys of a maniacal sky-daddy.
• And I impose on my children that not knowing the answer is all right, but not seeking the answer is lazy.

THE FOLLOWING ARE BELIEFS THAT I DO NOT IMPOSE ON MY CHILDREN.

• If you choose the wrong god you will burn in hell.
• Gay people will burn in hell.
• Jews will burn in hell.
• Muslims will burn in hell.
• Hindus, Buddhists, and people that never heard of Jesus will burn in hell.
• Parents should kill disobedient children.
• Townspeople should stone blasphemers.
• People should be killed for collecting sticks on the wrong day of the week.
• If humans destroy the world facilitating the return of a certain someone; it’s a good thing.
• God made the first man from dirt and the first women from one of the man’s ribs, or at the same time as the first man, depending on which version you prefer.
• A talking snake tricked a naive couple to disobey God.
• All babies are born defected and need to be saved — thanks to the talking snake and the naive couple.
• A 500-year-old man collected millions and millions of animals and insects from all seven continents and somehow housed them on a boat for almost a year because God decided to drown every mommy, daddy, child, baby, grandma, grandpa, pregnant woman, sick person, elderly person, mentally challenged person, blind person, person that takes care of sick people, and every animal that didn’t get to go on the boat including puppies, kittens, bunnies, and froggies, because every single person I just mentioned was BAD except for the 500 year-old-man and his family.
• God DIRECTLY ORDERED many, many people to kill many other people, usually over real estate disputes, exactly as we read in the Bible.
• People live to be close to 1,000 years old.
• People can live INSIDE OF A FISH for three days and be jettisoned out smelly, but perfectly ALIVE.
• Jesus is God because God made Jesus’s mother pregnant without having sex, just the same way that many other gods were created before Jesus was even a glint in his mother’s eye.
• Jesus is God because he died and came back to life — just like many other gods did before Jesus and just like many other people did in the Bible.
• Many, many zombies wandered the streets after Jesus was killed and interacted with many people.
• If certain men (whether they molested children or not) say magic words, crackers turn into Jesus’s actual body and wine turns into Jesus’ actual blood and then people eat and drink Jesus.
• You can only be a good person if you believe what’s written in the Bible — even though almost no one has actually read the Bible, and even though if they carried out Biblical edicts they’d be arrested and/or be considered insane.
• People of a particular town tried to rape angels. A father, a man that God liked very much, offered his daughters to be raped instead. After God saved the father and his daughters and proceeded to kill everyone else in the town, the daughters each got their father drunk and raped him so that they could have babies.

REVIEW

Now I ask with a straight face; am I really the one that’s imposing beliefs on children? As ridiculous as this list is, these are real, undeniable tenets of Christianity and/or accurate summaries of real Bible verse. I didn’t make any of it up and this isn’t cherry picking; the list could literally go on for page, after page, after page, after page. Don’t believe me? Read the Bible and find out for yourself. I dare you.

…

What would you add to the two lists?

Richard,

My 11-year-old son, Max, has asked me for advice, and I’m turning to you because I don’t know what to tell him. First a little background – I was raised in a very religious home and married his father when I was 18. We divorced a year after my son was born, and we have both since remarried. My ex and I still get along quite well and are on friendly terms. Even the fact that he is still very religious and I am very much not hasn’t been a major issue, although I feel that may not always be the case, especially after the conversation I had with Max this past weekend.

Max informed me that he doesn’t see any reason to believe in a god, as he doesn’t see any proof for one. This is, obviously, contrary to what his father believes, and that’s where he wanted the advice. Now, normally he’s with me on the weekends, but the few he spends with his father they go to church. Also, Max’s dad will ask him to pray at meal and bedtimes, and Max wants to know what he should do about that. He flat out told me that he’s scared to tell his dad what he thinks, as he’s afraid his father will be mad and/or sad about it. I’m at a total loss as to what to tell my son.

On the one hand I would like for my son to be able to be totally honest with his father. I don’t like the idea that he would try to keep something like this a secret, or that he would feel like he has to hide what he believes. At the same time, I worry that my ex-husband (along with my ex father-in-law), would attack my son’s beliefs. I fear that anything they would try to do to “save” him could be damaging. Max is very sensitive, and I don’t like thinking of him going through the things I went through when I came out as an atheist to my family – and I was an adult and no longer under their control at the time, so I know it was easier for me than it would be for Max.

I don’t know what to do. Do I encourage my son to remain closeted with his beliefs until he’s a little older and better able to deal with his father’s disappointment? Do I encourage him to talk it over with his dad, to get everything out in the open? Is this something I should try to get involved with as well, perhaps trying to set up a time for the 3 of us to meet on some sort of neutral grounds, in an attempt to be some sort of advocate for my son? I want to protect him the best I can, but I don’t know what will ultimately be best for him in the end.

Any advice you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Jessica

Dear Jessica,

Parents cannot have all the answers for their children, and when they don’t have an answer, it’s okay to honestly tell them so.

Eleven years old is pretty young to have to deal with this issue, but it happens when it happens, and it seems to be happening earlier with succeeding generations. Max has brought his dilemma to you because he doesn’t see an obvious easy solution. The difficulty he’s facing is painfully familiar to you, and you don’t see an obvious easy solution either. So you have in turn brought the dilemma to me.

I’m afraid that I don’t see an obvious easy solution either.

So I’m going to bring the dilemma back to Max. In terms he can understand, talk with him about all the things I’ll describe here. Most importantly, listen to him carefully, and do your best to make it easy for him to talk to you. It sounds like you’re already good at that. When you don’t know what to suggest, honestly say that. The two of you putting your heads together for a shared challenge will build a stronger bond, even if neither of you are coming up with immediate solutions. In the end, it’s that bond of caring and acceptance that he will need the most, rather than any particular strategy.

Children of divorced parents walk a narrow line, trying to follow their natural loyalties for both of their parents. When disagreements or conflicts arise between the ex-spouses, the children can sometimes become a rope in a tug-of-war between them, or worse, the children can be used as a weapon by one or both parents against the other. If the kids cannot freely talk to at least one parent about this bind they are in, they are forced to hedge, evade, and pretend. They can secretly feel guilty for being disloyal in some degree to both parents. They often learn to conceal their feelings from others in general, which can later make it tough to have close relationships. Eventually they conceal their feelings from themselves, which is not healthy.

Fortunately for Max, you and your ex-husband are on friendly terms so far, but nothing is as deeply divisive and unpredictably contentious as religion. It might be resolved amicably, or it might not.

Max needs to be able to openly express to at least one of you his conflicting loyalties, and know that he is still loved and accepted by the parent whom he tells. He already has that foundation with you. Whether or not his father is capable of that level of wisdom and maturity remains to be seen. The test will be when the truth comes out about Max’s belief, and it will come out sooner or later. Exactly how that happens might not be as important as when it happens.

Both you and Max are torn between the desire to be truthful and what both of you anticipate might be the consequences for telling the truth. Max is worried about his father’s anger at him, but he’s also worried about his father’s sadness. For many kids, having a parent be disappointed in them is worse than having a parent be angry at them.

Truthfulness is very important, but people should not follow the principle of truthfulness mechanically, without regard to other principles, including their right to protect themselves. Telling the truth exists within the context of the relationship between the teller and the listener. If the listener is not capable of responding to the truth in a way that honors the teller and the telling, then it may be better to withhold the truth until the relationship changes. The teller might need to become less vulnerable, and the listener might need to become more receptive.

Describe for Max what your experience of your own coming out to your family has taught you, and what your experience of your ex-husband has taught you. Let him know that you will love him and support him in whatever decision he makes about how to handle the situation. Let him know that he can take is time; there is no need to rush into a decision.

You are not being derelict in your moral teaching by letting him make the decision and letting him make it in his own time. You’re helping him to see that in life there are often no easy, clean solutions, and sometimes he must choose the least messy solution for the time being. By your example, you’re also teaching him to have compassion for others who are facing difficult dilemmas.

Whatever you do for Max should be with his agreement. He might want to leave it alone for now, and put up with praying and going to church. He might want you to be present at a three-way discussion with his father about these issues, as you suggested. He might prefer that you speak privately with his father about it first, and then let them talk it out.

Hopefully, whenever the time comes, his father will show himself to be mature, compassionate, patient, and above all, loving. But regardless of his father’s response, Max will have learned those qualities by working with you.

Richard

You may send your questions for Richard to . Please keep your letters concise. They may be edited. There is a very large number of letters. I am sorry if I am unable to respond in a timely manner.

I am fortunate enough to have a job that allows me to work from home, which in turn allows me to homeschool my kids. We began homeschooling this past fall because there was a bullying issue at our public school, and we decided to not put up with it any longer.

At the beginning of my oldest’s 6^th grade year, compounding his dwindling self esteem, middle school kids thought it hilarious to make fun of him. Why? Because he is short. Because he’s in the “gifted” program. Because he’s too eager to be popular. Because he has a shaggy haircut. Because he likes skinny jeans.

One day on the bus — the main forum for unchecked bullying — my son walked back to the kids who were laughing and making fun of him and yelled, “Just stop it! Leave me ALONE!”

He sat back down in his seat and stared out the window. Knowing my son, who has always worn his emotions on his sleeve, he was probably trying so hard to blink away the tears welling up so as to not give those kids one more thing to point and laugh at him for. One of the kids from the back sat next to him and lightly said his name, to which my son turned — only to receive a punch in the chest. This was moments before the bus pulled up in front of our home, and he ran off of the bus, humiliated, angry, and hurt.

I knew something was wrong when he went straight to his room instead of moseying into the living room to see what I was doing.

Of course, we talked to the principal. Of course, we heard nothing more about it because of privacy laws. Of course, the taunting and bullying didn’t stop. And, of course, my son never told us about any of it.

Near the end of the year, a kid in my daughter’s class told me that his older brother referred to my son as “a punching bag.” When I asked my son why he didn’t tell anyone he simply said, “Because it makes it worse.”

I hurt for my son.

Of course, we talked to the principal. Of course, we heard nothing more about it (despite his “promise” to get back to us). Of course…

No.

No “of course”… because this time I made a change.

After months of research that summer, we decided to homeschool. I still have people tell me, “You could go to the school board. You could fight this,” to which I reply, “I’d rather spend my time doing something positive for my kids while I still have them in my care, than use all of my free time fighting a system that puts more care into test scores than the well-being of my child. I made a change that was in their best interest.”

I support public school, the idea of it. And I support the amazing teachers that actually do care. Unfortunately, the folks at the top of the food chain, don’t have my kids’ best interests at heart.

I mention all of this because of one word…

Change.

So, back to The Lorax. (The kids finished their school work early.)

The ideas and lessons in the film really hit me. Yes, I cried at the end. I cried because a few simple words from Dr. Seuss resonated with me on so many levels, in so many dear things in my heart. It applies to the environment, our health, bullying, equality… and yes, even to our cause in the atheist community.

In our atheist/freethinker/skeptic community, we are fighting for change. We are fighting for rights. We are fighting for equality. We are fighting for reason. We are fighting against… bullies.

Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. It’s not. — Dr. Seuss

This is Percy the Dragon — he’s a friend of Camp Quest Minnesota!

Unicorns have been a perennial favorite of Camp Quest Ohio!

So, come on out to the Camp Quest tent for games, crafts, freethought activities, and science fun! Remember, parents must stay with their kids — enjoy the activities together! There will also be a mini Camp Quest at the American Atheists convention the next two days, which you can register for here! We hope to see you there!

Don’t forget to come visit them at Rock Beyond Belief as well!

Ayaan Hirsi Ali (The Globe and Mail)

When asked whether she will raise her son as an atheist:

It’s very interesting that you ask that. My life before I had my child was abstract. Now, once you have the child, that’s no longer theory. You actually are now bringing up this tiny human being, innocent, helpless.

And so you have to ask yourself, “Do I really want to bring him up with the idea that there is no God?” And my approach is — and my husband agrees with me — no, I’m not going to tell my son there is no God. Why? Because when I was growing up I was told there is a God. I’m just going to tell my son, in regards to morality, once he’s old enough to understand, that there are people who think there is a God, and there are different gods, and there are people who think there is no God, and there are different forms of atheism.

And what if her son decides to follow Islam?

That’s one of the crazy jokes we make. Kids at some point like to rebel against their parents, and so how will I respond? In theory, I think I’ll keep a straight face.

In literature, all the clashes between children and parents, where people who hate homosexuality, the kid comes and says, “I’m gay.” Protestants who hate Catholics, the kid says, “I’ve converted to Catholicism,” or the other way around. People who hate God, their child comes and says, “I’m a devout believer in this.” It could happen to me. My son could come and say, “You know what, mom? I’m a devout Muslim.”

And I have to do what my father and my mother were incapable of doing, which is to say, “Alright, go for it.” I’m hoping it does not happen.

You have to let individuals make their own choices and respect that, even if it’s your own child. And that’s what was taken away from me. My father passed away thinking I still had to go back to his way of believing. My mother constantly tells me, “You’re wrong, you’re wrong.”

I want to be strong enough to tell my son, it’s your choice.

Wise words from one of the most eloquent atheist writers around.

(via Canadian Atheist)

Hi Richard,

My son is in second grade and is coming under pressure from his friends. They are badgering him saying he is going to go to hell because he doesn’t believe in God. I know this won’t be the last time someone tries to force their religious views on him. And as a parent I want him to learn ways to handle it.

Unfortunately, giving logical arguments doesn’t work for 7 year olds. “I see no evidence” doesn’t work in an age where Santa Claus and tooth fairies make perfect sense.

Do you have any suggestions for a child to handle this situation?

As I said, my goal would be for him to have the right tools to handle this on his own. However, if that doesn’t work then I will speak to the other kids parents.

One final note… I live in Texas. So sadly, short of suing, the school system will be of little help.

Kind regards,
Kevin

Dear Kevin,

I can understand that as a parent you want your child to grow up being able to handle things on his own, but I think this might be more than most seven-year-olds should be expected to deal with alone, so you should assess it carefully.

Most people who grow up self-confident have drawn upon on two different kinds of foundation experiences in their childhood. One is the experience of having the backup and support of loved ones, especially their parents. As children, they knew that they would not be entirely alone in a struggle if they got beyond their depth. As they grew older, they gradually shifted to the second foundation of self-confidence, the repeated experience of being able to deal with a situation without help. If they have had only one of those two kinds of foundations, then as adults they might not handle challenging situations with the skill and flexibility that they would if they had had both.

There are no standard guidelines to help you determine if you should intervene and how you might intervene in this, because there are so many variables. Just a few of the variables include the following: Your son might be finding these incidents very upsetting, or he might be shrugging them off. The religious kids might be only casually expressing their training in spiritual conceit, or they might be really bearing down on him. These friends might be simply working out what topics should be discussed and what should not, or they might be stringently requiring your son to conform to their religious views in order to be accepted as their friend.

One thing you can probably assume is that the kids who are doing the religious badgering are drawing their self-confidence from that first foundation I mentioned. They are most likely assuming, correctly or not, that their parents and community will support them in what they are doing.

Seven years old is a time of rapid developmental and cognitive growth. If your son’s friends are just a few months older than him, they can have an advantage in developmental self-confidence as well as the confidence from assuming that they have parental backup, and the confidence from simply outnumbering him.

So you should assess these variables as best you can, especially letting your son tell you if and how much this situation distresses him. Make it easy for him to tell you honestly, without trying to please you with the answer that he thinks you would prefer to hear. Make sure that he knows you believe in his worthiness and that his well-being matters to you enough for you to help him when and if he is overwhelmed.

Whether or not you decide that it is time to intervene with the other kids’ parents and/or with the school administration, you should prepare for that contingency now, by documenting everything. Create a notebook where you write down every incident with the date, time, place, the names of the individuals involved, things that were done and said, and the effect that it had on your son.

If you decide to speak to the badgering kids’ parents, be ready to face whatever social fallout might come from that. They might be mature adults who don’t want their kids behaving that way, or they might be oversized versions of the playground bullies that their kids are. Bringing your documentation will have a powerful effect on whoever you end up talking to. They will see that you take this seriously, and that you expect them to do the same.

You say that because you are in Texas, the school system will be of little help. It certainly will be of no help if you assume that, and you do not approach them at all. I don’t think that you want to inadvertently teach your son to accept defeat by default. Only if you give the school administration an honest chance to do the right thing will you know how helpful or unhelpful they will be.

If you speak to the school Principal and/or teachers, let them see you writing down everything that they are saying to you. This will give them a clear message that you expect results rather than giving you placating platitudes or disdainful dismissals. You don’t necessarily have to mention potential lawsuits, because your documenting clearly implies that possibility. Demonstrating that you are determined and prepared can often be enough to shake people out of their complacency or apathy.

In the meantime, you could talk to your son about what he might try on his own, but I cannot promise that the couple of suggestions I offer below will help. Perhaps the readers here will have suggestions based on their own experiences.

I think it would be a mistake for him argue with the other kids about their beliefs. That would probably just worsen things. His efforts should be about trying to alter the relationship between them, rather than alter the beliefs. He can get into debates about metaphysics and epistemology when he’s in high school and college.

Start with the shrug-off. Suggest that when they try the you’re-going-to-hell routine, he should say with a shrug and a friendly tone, “I don’t care about that stuff. Let’s play baseball.” It disarms the taunt or challenge because it seems to have no effect on him, and it suggests a positive alternative thing for him and the other kids to do.

Another one might be the focus on friendship. He could say something like, “It’s more fun to be friends. Let’s play baseball.”

There are no guarantees that any response will work, because so much depends on whatever is driving the other kids. I think a combination of what your son tries and what you try on his behalf might be the best approach. The exact mixture of those will have to be an experiment.

The last thing I’ll suggest is probably the first thing you should try. Encourage him and even help him to find other friends who don’t badger him like that. There may be a great many religiously intolerant people in your area, but they’re not all like that. Your son only needs to find a handful of more easygoing kids who are not mimicking their parents’ obsession with conformity and the extortion racket that is faith under threat of torture.

Please write again to let me know how things turn out. We can all benefit from your experiences of what works and what does not. I wish you and your son the best.

Richard

You may send your questions for Richard to . Please keep your letters concise. They may be edited. There is a very large number of letters. I am sorry if I am unable to respond in a timely manner.

The judges have selected 7 finalists… one of those happens to be created by Noelle George and Donna Swafford, two “Mothers Beyond Belief.” Check out their video (entitled “Equality, Freedom, Respect”) on the contest page and vote for it if you like it! (Hurry! There is only a week left to vote.)

Also, for those that don’t know (since it was mentioned on this site before), “Mothers Beyond Belief” is a private secular Facebook group for mothers about pregnancy, childbirth and beyond. There are currently 927 members (I myself am one of them) and the women, the discussions/debates, the ideas, and the support are incredible! Come join us and help build a more secular world.