Obama, abortion, and his pro-life supporters

There are indeed pro-life Democrats, such as Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey and former Congressman from Indiana Timothy Roemer. They and other pro-life Democrats are coming out strong for Barack Obama, even though he has opposed every restriction on abortion, including the bill to ban partial birth abortion. But pro-life Democrats say that he at least supports abstinence education and admits that abortion poses a profound moral dilemma. They think the atmosphere of unity and transcending differences that Obama promises offer a chance to end the currrent deadlocks and to arrive at a consensus that will result in fewer abortions.

Read For Obama, Unexpected Support – washingtonpost.com. What do you think of such hopes?

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • fw

    In the time of saint paul, the civil authority over the life or death of ones own children was placed with the head of the household.

    Not just abortion, infanticide, was the rule not the exception…. usually unwanted girl children left out to “exposure”.

    We are returning to that social structure in this area. Maybe it is truly the only logical one that also would balance parental rights against government intrusion…I have yet to see a comprehensive logical argument with rules that could be applied by a christian in this overall debate.

    We have merely returned to that.

    I am suggesting that perhaps the real debate over abortion has been really a jurisdictional one.

    We say the government has the power of life and death. What if the “government ” is defined as a patriarchal one. as in abraham, and as in the new testament societal structure? But now patriarchalism boils down to the decision of a pregnant mother.

    There is hope.. note that christianity essentially wiped out the ideas that suicide was honorable, and that infanticide and abortions were likewise honorable options…. This all happened while christians were often in hiding for their very lives. They completely changed a society without even being able to vote or nominate supreme court justices…

    Just how did they do that? What would we do to mirror what they accomplished if we were powerless over government fiat and what others chose to do in their personal lives and families?

  • fw

    In the time of saint paul, the civil authority over the life or death of ones own children was placed with the head of the household.

    Not just abortion, infanticide, was the rule not the exception…. usually unwanted girl children left out to “exposure”.

    We are returning to that social structure in this area. Maybe it is truly the only logical one that also would balance parental rights against government intrusion…I have yet to see a comprehensive logical argument with rules that could be applied by a christian in this overall debate.

    We have merely returned to that.

    I am suggesting that perhaps the real debate over abortion has been really a jurisdictional one.

    We say the government has the power of life and death. What if the “government ” is defined as a patriarchal one. as in abraham, and as in the new testament societal structure? But now patriarchalism boils down to the decision of a pregnant mother.

    There is hope.. note that christianity essentially wiped out the ideas that suicide was honorable, and that infanticide and abortions were likewise honorable options…. This all happened while christians were often in hiding for their very lives. They completely changed a society without even being able to vote or nominate supreme court justices…

    Just how did they do that? What would we do to mirror what they accomplished if we were powerless over government fiat and what others chose to do in their personal lives and families?

  • fw

    Maybe with Barack there will finally truly be room for a non polarized debate on this and other issues?

  • fw

    Maybe with Barack there will finally truly be room for a non polarized debate on this and other issues?

  • fw

    By the way and for the record…

    When I think of an abortion, my mind leaps to imagining Jesus or John the Baptist aborted.

    My views on this topic are quite clear and definite. Yet I am not sure that a minority managing to outlaw abortions for the majority who want the option will get our society to where I want it to be. And I am not sure the collateral damage to our basic societal structure would be a good thing in the future when christians probably will become further marginalized….

    But who knows… I also think the war on drugs and prostitution and censorship on most pornography are failures,….. giant sinkholes of public funds and energy and that these things should be legalized, taxed, and regulated in the framework of being a public health and safety issue…..I am most open to creative ideas and proposals for alternatives here as well…

    The war on drugs has spawned an industry of special interests from prisons to treatment to military to our vasal states like columbia, to…..money talks, so things will probably not soon change here….

  • fw

    By the way and for the record…

    When I think of an abortion, my mind leaps to imagining Jesus or John the Baptist aborted.

    My views on this topic are quite clear and definite. Yet I am not sure that a minority managing to outlaw abortions for the majority who want the option will get our society to where I want it to be. And I am not sure the collateral damage to our basic societal structure would be a good thing in the future when christians probably will become further marginalized….

    But who knows… I also think the war on drugs and prostitution and censorship on most pornography are failures,….. giant sinkholes of public funds and energy and that these things should be legalized, taxed, and regulated in the framework of being a public health and safety issue…..I am most open to creative ideas and proposals for alternatives here as well…

    The war on drugs has spawned an industry of special interests from prisons to treatment to military to our vasal states like columbia, to…..money talks, so things will probably not soon change here….

  • Greg

    Frank writes:”with Barack there will finally truly be room for a non polarized debate ”
    Fat chance. The PR campaign to portray Barack as non-polarizing and above polarization has worked to make Obama front runner for the dems. He is now however being revealed as the extreme leftist he allways was at heart. I am certainly polarized against Baracks campaign and I am predicting he will become an extremely polarizing figure the closer we get to November.

  • Greg

    Frank writes:”with Barack there will finally truly be room for a non polarized debate ”
    Fat chance. The PR campaign to portray Barack as non-polarizing and above polarization has worked to make Obama front runner for the dems. He is now however being revealed as the extreme leftist he allways was at heart. I am certainly polarized against Baracks campaign and I am predicting he will become an extremely polarizing figure the closer we get to November.

  • http://www.brandywinebooks.net Lars Walker

    The Democratic definition of “nonpolarizing” has been, throughout my adult life, “we’ll all be in concord, just as soon as you drop your selfish insistence on having an opinion of your own.”

  • http://www.brandywinebooks.net Lars Walker

    The Democratic definition of “nonpolarizing” has been, throughout my adult life, “we’ll all be in concord, just as soon as you drop your selfish insistence on having an opinion of your own.”

  • Joe

    Obama is not a post-partisan unifier. He is a standard issue liberal with better than average marketing and a flare for public speaking. He will not unify this country.

    Frank suggests that the debate is really about jurisdiction, but that debate ended with Roe v. Wade. Jurisdiction over this issue was taken away from the states by the feds and short of overturning Roe, there will be no debate on the proper jurisdiction.

    Under our federalist system, jurisdiction over abortion should rest with states or local gov’ts or may be families, but our current system does not allow this. Again because of Roe, only the federal gov’t can set the rules know. And it does not leave it up to the woman to decide as one might casually understand the decision. Instead, it is tied to 1960-70’s medical technology and medical understandings of viability. Only within that narrow framework is a women allowed to make a choice – and of course the law recognizes no rights of the father in the decision making process.

    If jurisdiction is what should be debated then step one must be the overturning of Roe. Without it, the debate would be completely theoretical.

    There is always hand wringing over what would happen if Roe were overturned but all that would happen is that some states would try to enact legislation (or some already enacted legislation would become constitutional) to ban certain types of abortions. But with the legislative process comes debate, which is what the goal is no?

  • Joe

    Obama is not a post-partisan unifier. He is a standard issue liberal with better than average marketing and a flare for public speaking. He will not unify this country.

    Frank suggests that the debate is really about jurisdiction, but that debate ended with Roe v. Wade. Jurisdiction over this issue was taken away from the states by the feds and short of overturning Roe, there will be no debate on the proper jurisdiction.

    Under our federalist system, jurisdiction over abortion should rest with states or local gov’ts or may be families, but our current system does not allow this. Again because of Roe, only the federal gov’t can set the rules know. And it does not leave it up to the woman to decide as one might casually understand the decision. Instead, it is tied to 1960-70’s medical technology and medical understandings of viability. Only within that narrow framework is a women allowed to make a choice – and of course the law recognizes no rights of the father in the decision making process.

    If jurisdiction is what should be debated then step one must be the overturning of Roe. Without it, the debate would be completely theoretical.

    There is always hand wringing over what would happen if Roe were overturned but all that would happen is that some states would try to enact legislation (or some already enacted legislation would become constitutional) to ban certain types of abortions. But with the legislative process comes debate, which is what the goal is no?

  • Anon

    Barak Hussein Obama is actually very strongly pro-abortion. He is also opposed to prohibiting infanticide, and has so voted and spoken.

    He also promises to force homosexual ‘marriage’ upon all of the several States.

    Economically, he appears to be Leninist.

    Just as some misinterpreted Two Kingdoms to support Adolph Hitler and the National Socialists, I suppose some Lutherans today might make similar mistakes regarding Obama.

  • Anon

    Barak Hussein Obama is actually very strongly pro-abortion. He is also opposed to prohibiting infanticide, and has so voted and spoken.

    He also promises to force homosexual ‘marriage’ upon all of the several States.

    Economically, he appears to be Leninist.

    Just as some misinterpreted Two Kingdoms to support Adolph Hitler and the National Socialists, I suppose some Lutherans today might make similar mistakes regarding Obama.

  • http://www.faith-filled.com Stephenie

    I’m sure you’ve all seen this today, but I’d love to see it discussed here: http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/24513

  • http://www.faith-filled.com Stephenie

    I’m sure you’ve all seen this today, but I’d love to see it discussed here: http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/24513

  • Bryan Lindemood

    Wow, Stephanie, that is extremely disturbing. This is perhaps the best example I have ever read which demonstrates why abortion is against God’s natural law and why we should work to make our civic institutions reflect natural morality in some way. This reveals how inadequate our nations laws really are.

    The poor woman in the article you sighted needs a pastor, a jail cell, a physician, and a psychiatrist. In that order I think. Lord, have mercy.

  • Bryan Lindemood

    Wow, Stephanie, that is extremely disturbing. This is perhaps the best example I have ever read which demonstrates why abortion is against God’s natural law and why we should work to make our civic institutions reflect natural morality in some way. This reveals how inadequate our nations laws really are.

    The poor woman in the article you sighted needs a pastor, a jail cell, a physician, and a psychiatrist. In that order I think. Lord, have mercy.

  • fw

    #6 Joe

    Ok Joe we agree….”Under our federalist system, jurisdiction over abortion should rest with states or local gov’ts or MAYBE WITH FAMILIES, but our current system does not allow this.”

    Roe v Wade places jurisdiction effectively with the families, the pregnant mother. I am not saying it belongs there, but maybe that is the “natural law” place for it to reside.

  • fw

    #6 Joe

    Ok Joe we agree….”Under our federalist system, jurisdiction over abortion should rest with states or local gov’ts or MAYBE WITH FAMILIES, but our current system does not allow this.”

    Roe v Wade places jurisdiction effectively with the families, the pregnant mother. I am not saying it belongs there, but maybe that is the “natural law” place for it to reside.

  • Joe

    Frank – we don’t agree on the effect of Roe. It really does not place the jurisdiction with the family.

  • Joe

    Frank – we don’t agree on the effect of Roe. It really does not place the jurisdiction with the family.

  • Booklover

    Obama advocates the killing of children. Perhaps after he is elected President he can work on the legalization of stealing, lying, and adultery. Oh wait, that’s already been done.

    I believe the father of Senator Casey is rolling over in his grave.

  • Booklover

    Obama advocates the killing of children. Perhaps after he is elected President he can work on the legalization of stealing, lying, and adultery. Oh wait, that’s already been done.

    I believe the father of Senator Casey is rolling over in his grave.

  • http://blog.faith-filled.com/ Stephenie

    Not to get this thread off-track, but the follow-up on that story states that the girl made it up. They’re calling it “creative fiction.”

    I still think it’s disgusting that she’s thought this through and presented it as such.

  • http://blog.faith-filled.com/ Stephenie

    Not to get this thread off-track, but the follow-up on that story states that the girl made it up. They’re calling it “creative fiction.”

    I still think it’s disgusting that she’s thought this through and presented it as such.

  • Bryan Lindemood

    Booklover #12

    How has stealing been legalized.

    Hasn’t lying always been legal in our nation under freedom of speech as long as one isn’t under oath? (Not that one should live that way)

    And isn’t adultery still illegal except for the fact that those laws are not enforced?

    But mostly curious about what your thinking in terms of the stealing being legal. I hope not.

  • Bryan Lindemood

    Booklover #12

    How has stealing been legalized.

    Hasn’t lying always been legal in our nation under freedom of speech as long as one isn’t under oath? (Not that one should live that way)

    And isn’t adultery still illegal except for the fact that those laws are not enforced?

    But mostly curious about what your thinking in terms of the stealing being legal. I hope not.

  • Booklover

    Hi B. Lindemood #14:

    I was referring to the latter term, adultery, as having been already legalized, with our easy divorce and remarriage laws. But I was just prattling.

    My main point was that the senior Senator Casey, who was a bastion pro-life Democrat, must be, albeit posthumously, very sad about his son’s support of the pro-abort Obama.

  • Booklover

    Hi B. Lindemood #14:

    I was referring to the latter term, adultery, as having been already legalized, with our easy divorce and remarriage laws. But I was just prattling.

    My main point was that the senior Senator Casey, who was a bastion pro-life Democrat, must be, albeit posthumously, very sad about his son’s support of the pro-abort Obama.


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X