# Put May 21, 2011 on your calendar

Radio evangelist Harold Camping has calculated that the Rapture (the ascension of all living Christians before Christ returns) will occur on May 21, 2011. What interests me is how that date was figured:

By Camping's understanding, the Bible was dictated by God and every word and number carries a spiritual significance. He noticed that particular numbers appeared in the Bible at the same time particular themes are discussed.

The number 5, Camping concluded, equals "atonement." Ten is "completeness." Seventeen means "heaven." Camping patiently explained how he reached his conclusion for May 21, 2011.

"Christ hung on the cross April 1, 33 A.D.," he began. "Now go to April 1 of 2011 A.D., and that's 1,978 years."

Camping then multiplied 1,978 by 365.2422 days – the number of days in each solar year, not to be confused with a calendar year.

Next, Camping noted that April 1 to May 21 encompasses 51 days. Add 51 to the sum of previous multiplication total, and it equals 722,500.

Camping realized that (5 x 10 x 17) x (5 x 10 x 17) = 722,500.

Or put into words: (Atonement x Completeness x Heaven), squared.

"Five times 10 times 17 is telling you a story," Camping said. "It's the story from the time Christ made payment for your sins until you're completely saved.

"I tell ya, I just about fell off my chair when I realized that," Camping said.

This is not the first time Camping has predicted the end times. His earlier calculation came to Sept. 6, 1994. His followers were unfazed and are making their plans not to be here after May 21, 2011. But doesn’t this new calculation start with the 2011 date and work backwards? (Not that this is the only thing wrong with this sort of thing.)

By the way, this is also the guy who proclaimed that Christians should leave their churches and just listen to preachers like him on the radio.

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Related posts from Cranach
• Just another false prophet; and his earlier failure makes that clear to anyone who cares whether he’s a false prophet or not. He’s not even a good counterfeit. Neither is it any surprise that such a man would try to cut people off from the means of grace. Whether knowlingly or not, he’s Satan’s tool.

• Just another false prophet; and his earlier failure makes that clear to anyone who cares whether he’s a false prophet or not. He’s not even a good counterfeit. Neither is it any surprise that such a man would try to cut people off from the means of grace. Whether knowlingly or not, he’s Satan’s tool.

• Jonathan

Camping is a charlatan and a blasphemer, he places himself above the Almighty.

But of that day and of that hour knows no man, not the angels in heaven, not even the Son, but only the Father.

Therefore keep watch because you do not know the day or the hour when the Son of Man comes.

• Jonathan

Camping is a charlatan and a blasphemer, he places himself above the Almighty.

But of that day and of that hour knows no man, not the angels in heaven, not even the Son, but only the Father.

Therefore keep watch because you do not know the day or the hour when the Son of Man comes.

• Joe

I would like to feel sorry for his followers but I just can muster it given his earlier false prediction. Foll me once shame on you, fool me twice …

• Joe

I would like to feel sorry for his followers but I just can muster it given his earlier false prediction. Foll me once shame on you, fool me twice …

• It’s puzzling how someone can go deeply into Scripture, spend time with it, and miss the point so completely. Forest for the trees, I guess.

• It’s puzzling how someone can go deeply into Scripture, spend time with it, and miss the point so completely. Forest for the trees, I guess.

• Kirk

42

Too easy.

• Kirk

42

Too easy.

• WebMonk

He bought a lot of radio stations WAAAYYYY back when they were almost a novelty and has a really wide audience for his programming. That’s the only reason I can figure that he hasn’t vanished a long time ago.

I first heard him on the radio a couple years ago, and I couldn’t figure out why they were putting a mentally retarded and obviously senile person on the radio. (If you’ve heard him recently you’ll know what I mean – he can barely string his words together.)

Later I found out he owns the stations. If his date-setting predictions hadn’t been going on for a long time, I would suggest that his kookiness is from mentally degradation. I still think he is mentally gone at this point, but the kookiness has been there all along.

• WebMonk

He bought a lot of radio stations WAAAYYYY back when they were almost a novelty and has a really wide audience for his programming. That’s the only reason I can figure that he hasn’t vanished a long time ago.

I first heard him on the radio a couple years ago, and I couldn’t figure out why they were putting a mentally retarded and obviously senile person on the radio. (If you’ve heard him recently you’ll know what I mean – he can barely string his words together.)

Later I found out he owns the stations. If his date-setting predictions hadn’t been going on for a long time, I would suggest that his kookiness is from mentally degradation. I still think he is mentally gone at this point, but the kookiness has been there all along.

• I’m wondering if he even bothered to consider the whole Julian/Gregorian calendar switch and how that could mess up his figures. Or the fact that we don’t actually know with absolute certainty the day of Christ’s death.

But this did just give me a bit of insight: it shows God’s great wisdom and foresight in allowing for textual variants in the text of Scripture. None of them (at least not the ones worth considering) change any doctrine or truth of the Bible, but as long as anyone tries to use God’s Word as some kind of codebook or cipher for predicting the future in this way they’ll never know for sure if they’ve got it right, because they’ll never know for sure whether given verse “V” has 12 words or 15, or verse “W” says, “Jesus Christ our Lord” or “Christ our Lord, our Savior”, etc.

The crazies will still insist they’re right, of course, but the more thoughtful should be stopped long enough to see the error of their approach.

• I’m wondering if he even bothered to consider the whole Julian/Gregorian calendar switch and how that could mess up his figures. Or the fact that we don’t actually know with absolute certainty the day of Christ’s death.

But this did just give me a bit of insight: it shows God’s great wisdom and foresight in allowing for textual variants in the text of Scripture. None of them (at least not the ones worth considering) change any doctrine or truth of the Bible, but as long as anyone tries to use God’s Word as some kind of codebook or cipher for predicting the future in this way they’ll never know for sure if they’ve got it right, because they’ll never know for sure whether given verse “V” has 12 words or 15, or verse “W” says, “Jesus Christ our Lord” or “Christ our Lord, our Savior”, etc.

The crazies will still insist they’re right, of course, but the more thoughtful should be stopped long enough to see the error of their approach.

• Kelly

My son’s second birthday. Good thing he’s been baptized!

• Kelly

My son’s second birthday. Good thing he’s been baptized!

• I wonder if Camping might someday consider reading the Bible for it’s cleartext content, rather than for the purpose of trying to decode its supposed cyphertext messages.

• I wonder if Camping might someday consider reading the Bible for it’s cleartext content, rather than for the purpose of trying to decode its supposed cyphertext messages.

• I read my Bible and calculated that there was to be no such thing as the “rapture”. But in my case, there wasn’t nearly as much math.

• I read my Bible and calculated that there was to be no such thing as the “rapture”. But in my case, there wasn’t nearly as much math.

• tODD,
That is where you went wrong you forgot to incorporate the Pythagorean Theorem. Math always helps clarify the Bible especially when you are delving into the nature of the Trinity….

• tODD,
That is where you went wrong you forgot to incorporate the Pythagorean Theorem. Math always helps clarify the Bible especially when you are delving into the nature of the Trinity….

• Joe

Amen tODD

• Joe

Amen tODD

• I have been listening to Harold Camping on the radio for years. He is a nut.

A nice, old, nut…but a nut, nonetheless.

It just goes to show you the terrible state of Christian radio in So. Cal. that I would resort to listening to him (once in awhile).

• I have been listening to Harold Camping on the radio for years. He is a nut.

A nice, old, nut…but a nut, nonetheless.

It just goes to show you the terrible state of Christian radio in So. Cal. that I would resort to listening to him (once in awhile).

• No thanks. I am going to leave my church to listen to George Noory on the radio.

• No thanks. I am going to leave my church to listen to George Noory on the radio.

• dave

He should put Matthew 24:36 on his calendar.

Bible scholar my a**. :o)

• dave

He should put Matthew 24:36 on his calendar.

Bible scholar my a**. :o)

• As a symbolic act, let’s all plant trees on May 20, 2011.

• As a symbolic act, let’s all plant trees on May 20, 2011.

• Mommy

I love Family Radio for the music they play and once in a while leave it on when he starts talking, just for the comic relief. It gets old, though.

Actually, I believe that his previous prediction was for 1999. I’ve heard folks call in and chastise him for that error and he replies that he had the date right but the event wrong, which God has since revealed to him.

BTW, he also no longer believes in hell.

• Mommy

I love Family Radio for the music they play and once in a while leave it on when he starts talking, just for the comic relief. It gets old, though.

Actually, I believe that his previous prediction was for 1999. I’ve heard folks call in and chastise him for that error and he replies that he had the date right but the event wrong, which God has since revealed to him.

BTW, he also no longer believes in hell.

• What Dave said. What happened to Camping that he no longer understands that no one knows the day or the hour?

It provides an excellent example of a sound exegetical principle; the obvious explains the obscure.

• What Dave said. What happened to Camping that he no longer understands that no one knows the day or the hour?

It provides an excellent example of a sound exegetical principle; the obvious explains the obscure.

• Lenny the Ebay guy

You guys are all doing exactly what the Bible predicts people will do near the end.

Scoffers will mock and ridicule saying “where is the sign of the coming? For all things are as they were before our fathers slept.”

Another lie of the scoffers is that Camping predicted the end of the world in 1994.
NOT TRUE — (read the book)

The title of the book was : “1994?”
He repeatedly stated in the book which was hastely written due to the newness of the discoveries and time situation….that it was very possible 1994 could be the date.

He goes on to say that “We have to be careful, we may have missed something”…hence the huge question mark on the cover of the book.

Camping also said in the book, that the number calculations also indicated that if 1994 was not the date, that 2011 looked like it too could be the date.

So….as in the days of Noah as the Bible says….they will be eating, drinking, marrying, and scoffing when the end comes.

“They will say peace and safety (which refers to those in the churches relying on their doctrines and false gospels)…and then sudden destruction will come upon them”.

The knowledge that is on the increase is both in the world and in the word of God.

• Lenny the Ebay guy

You guys are all doing exactly what the Bible predicts people will do near the end.

Scoffers will mock and ridicule saying “where is the sign of the coming? For all things are as they were before our fathers slept.”

Another lie of the scoffers is that Camping predicted the end of the world in 1994.
NOT TRUE — (read the book)

The title of the book was : “1994?”
He repeatedly stated in the book which was hastely written due to the newness of the discoveries and time situation….that it was very possible 1994 could be the date.

He goes on to say that “We have to be careful, we may have missed something”…hence the huge question mark on the cover of the book.

Camping also said in the book, that the number calculations also indicated that if 1994 was not the date, that 2011 looked like it too could be the date.

So….as in the days of Noah as the Bible says….they will be eating, drinking, marrying, and scoffing when the end comes.

“They will say peace and safety (which refers to those in the churches relying on their doctrines and false gospels)…and then sudden destruction will come upon them”.

The knowledge that is on the increase is both in the world and in the word of God.

• So, Lenny, thanks for commenting. Why do you think Camping may be right? The numerology quoted here doesn’t seem very persuasive, does it? More importantly, why do you think Camping knows when the end will be when Jesus Himself says that “no man knows” and that even HE doesn’t know? I’m not attacking you, just wanting to understand your position.

• So, Lenny, thanks for commenting. Why do you think Camping may be right? The numerology quoted here doesn’t seem very persuasive, does it? More importantly, why do you think Camping knows when the end will be when Jesus Himself says that “no man knows” and that even HE doesn’t know? I’m not attacking you, just wanting to understand your position.

• Lenny the Ebay guy

I’ve studied his numbers and calculations very closely. They are right on the money.

Rule number 1. The entire Bible is the word of God and all of the scriptures are parables that speak to us today.

Rule number 2.
The Bible is it’s own interpretor, as God commands us…Compare scriptures with scriptures and spiritual things with spiritual things as the Bereans did to see if these things be true.

Rule number 3.
God tells us in the Bible that the scriptures were written in such a way to confound the wicked (or unsaved), God says he will bring them “Strong Delusion”…and “No man can come to me lest the father that sent me draw him”.

Rule number 4.
You cannot isolate one verse in the Bible or you will certainly have error and heresy. (see Rule number 2)

Example: Jesus Christ was a real lamb…that’s what the Bible says, doesn’t it? You have to read the entire Bible to understand that lamb means “innocent sacrifice”.

As to “No man may know the hour or day, etc.”

The Bible also says:

1 Thessalonians 5:4
“But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. (to the believers)

So it looks like we have a contradiction here…but when you read all of the Bible and harmonize all of the scriptures, you find that there are TWO messages regarding this issue. One for those who will rest in the arms of their doctrines and false gospels, ie: “they shall say peace and safety…” and one for those who God says will see.

Why would the Bible tell us to watch for the day of his coming if no man can know?

And what about 1 Thessalonians 5:4 ?

By the way…I’m used to being attacked 😉

No problem at all, I have no pride, and I do not get offended (thanks to God dragging me out of my old life, kicking and screaming :D)

Lenny

• Lenny the Ebay guy

I’ve studied his numbers and calculations very closely. They are right on the money.

Rule number 1. The entire Bible is the word of God and all of the scriptures are parables that speak to us today.

Rule number 2.
The Bible is it’s own interpretor, as God commands us…Compare scriptures with scriptures and spiritual things with spiritual things as the Bereans did to see if these things be true.

Rule number 3.
God tells us in the Bible that the scriptures were written in such a way to confound the wicked (or unsaved), God says he will bring them “Strong Delusion”…and “No man can come to me lest the father that sent me draw him”.

Rule number 4.
You cannot isolate one verse in the Bible or you will certainly have error and heresy. (see Rule number 2)

Example: Jesus Christ was a real lamb…that’s what the Bible says, doesn’t it? You have to read the entire Bible to understand that lamb means “innocent sacrifice”.

As to “No man may know the hour or day, etc.”

The Bible also says:

1 Thessalonians 5:4
“But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. (to the believers)

So it looks like we have a contradiction here…but when you read all of the Bible and harmonize all of the scriptures, you find that there are TWO messages regarding this issue. One for those who will rest in the arms of their doctrines and false gospels, ie: “they shall say peace and safety…” and one for those who God says will see.

Why would the Bible tell us to watch for the day of his coming if no man can know?

And what about 1 Thessalonians 5:4 ?

By the way…I’m used to being attacked 😉

No problem at all, I have no pride, and I do not get offended (thanks to God dragging me out of my old life, kicking and screaming :D)

Lenny

• Lenny the Ebay guy

PS…

You’ve got a great blog here!

• Lenny the Ebay guy

PS…

You’ve got a great blog here!

• Kelly

Matthew 24:42-44 says, “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

Therefore “watching for the day of his coming” does not entail predictions on which date it will be. It is clear that this day is not known, either by believers or unbelievers (and Jesus is indeed talking to his followers in this passage).

As for 1 Thessalonians 5:4, just a glance at the first few verses beforehand should explain it. The Son of God will indeed come like a thief in the night, and we will not know the times or dates, nor do we need to. But the day will not surprise us like a thief– because we know that it’s coming, and we know that our Lord is not coming to condemn us with sudden destruction, but to save us.

• Kelly

Matthew 24:42-44 says, “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

Therefore “watching for the day of his coming” does not entail predictions on which date it will be. It is clear that this day is not known, either by believers or unbelievers (and Jesus is indeed talking to his followers in this passage).

As for 1 Thessalonians 5:4, just a glance at the first few verses beforehand should explain it. The Son of God will indeed come like a thief in the night, and we will not know the times or dates, nor do we need to. But the day will not surprise us like a thief– because we know that it’s coming, and we know that our Lord is not coming to condemn us with sudden destruction, but to save us.

• Lenny the Ebay guy

Well Kelly,

You can push and bend the scriptures all you like, and that is your privilege.

But the fact is that there are an abundance of scriptures in the Bible besides the one I offered that indicate there will be those who do know the day of his coming.

Jesus is NOT coming to save all people (in the churches). The Bible clearly states that there will only be a remnant saved, and that they are not saved because of their works, but it is grace or a gift of God (lest any man should boast).

Works mean anything from thinking that you got saved because YOU decided to accept Christ, or you go to the right church, or you got Baptised, or you are a nice person, etc. etc. etc.

Read about the man who picked up a few sticks on the Sabbath in the Old Testament, the language is very interesting after God commands that he be executed for this seemingly tiny infraction…he then goes into the same language used for the end times. Clearly a warning to those today who would rely on what THEY have done or what they believe, or what church they are in for their salvation.

Jesus IS coming to condemn.

Remember what he said:

“In that day (last day), there will be many who say unto me ‘Lord Lord! Did we not do many wonderful things in thy name..etc. etc.’ and Jesus said ‘Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you”

WOW!!

That should scare the daylights out of anyone who is comfortable with the “peace and safety” of their religious doctrines.

Who do you think those people are?!

They certainly aren’t the non-believers, they are shocked that Christ is not there for them because THEY BELIEVED they were good, godly Christians.

This clearly indicates that there will be MANY MANY people who believed that they were safe and sound in the doctrines of their churches and religions, and are in for a terrible and bitter awakening.

I know that when I first started learning these things back around 1990, I was horrified that I might not be saved as I had always been taught in my churches. A great fear gripped me.

This is the fear of God that every Christian should have, not a fear of a tyrant or ogre, but the fear of someone who suddenly realizes that he or she has been completely wrong all along, and that sudden awakening makes them fear God because of the righteous destruction that we all deserve as sinful human beings.

• Lenny the Ebay guy

Well Kelly,

You can push and bend the scriptures all you like, and that is your privilege.

But the fact is that there are an abundance of scriptures in the Bible besides the one I offered that indicate there will be those who do know the day of his coming.

Jesus is NOT coming to save all people (in the churches). The Bible clearly states that there will only be a remnant saved, and that they are not saved because of their works, but it is grace or a gift of God (lest any man should boast).

Works mean anything from thinking that you got saved because YOU decided to accept Christ, or you go to the right church, or you got Baptised, or you are a nice person, etc. etc. etc.

Read about the man who picked up a few sticks on the Sabbath in the Old Testament, the language is very interesting after God commands that he be executed for this seemingly tiny infraction…he then goes into the same language used for the end times. Clearly a warning to those today who would rely on what THEY have done or what they believe, or what church they are in for their salvation.

Jesus IS coming to condemn.

Remember what he said:

“In that day (last day), there will be many who say unto me ‘Lord Lord! Did we not do many wonderful things in thy name..etc. etc.’ and Jesus said ‘Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you”

WOW!!

That should scare the daylights out of anyone who is comfortable with the “peace and safety” of their religious doctrines.

Who do you think those people are?!

They certainly aren’t the non-believers, they are shocked that Christ is not there for them because THEY BELIEVED they were good, godly Christians.

This clearly indicates that there will be MANY MANY people who believed that they were safe and sound in the doctrines of their churches and religions, and are in for a terrible and bitter awakening.

I know that when I first started learning these things back around 1990, I was horrified that I might not be saved as I had always been taught in my churches. A great fear gripped me.

This is the fear of God that every Christian should have, not a fear of a tyrant or ogre, but the fear of someone who suddenly realizes that he or she has been completely wrong all along, and that sudden awakening makes them fear God because of the righteous destruction that we all deserve as sinful human beings.

• Kelly

What are you talking about? I was saying that Jesus isn’t coming to condemn US– i.e., Christians. I don’t question that are many false Christians in the world who actually do not have faith in Christ, and so will be condemned. And what Scriptural proof do you offer that 1 Thess. 5:3 is referring exclusively to those inside the church, anyway? Why is that even pertinent to the discussion at hand?

Where are those abundances of Scriptures you speak of that flatly contradict Matthew 24? Amos 3:7? He *has* revealed his plans to his servants through the Word, and that Word that Jesus and his apostles reveal states that no one knows the day or hour.

• Kelly

What are you talking about? I was saying that Jesus isn’t coming to condemn US– i.e., Christians. I don’t question that are many false Christians in the world who actually do not have faith in Christ, and so will be condemned. And what Scriptural proof do you offer that 1 Thess. 5:3 is referring exclusively to those inside the church, anyway? Why is that even pertinent to the discussion at hand?

Where are those abundances of Scriptures you speak of that flatly contradict Matthew 24? Amos 3:7? He *has* revealed his plans to his servants through the Word, and that Word that Jesus and his apostles reveal states that no one knows the day or hour.

• Lenny the Ebay guy

I haven’t got time to write all this here at 1:35 in the morning, and I’m not sure if the guy who owns this blog would appreciate me doing so.

However…

and go through:

“The End of the Church Age” ….. and …..

“No Man Knows the Day or the Hour?”

all the Bible verses and tie-ins are there.
read it with an open mind, nobody says you have to believe it, just scan through it or read it carefully if you like and see if it speaks to you 🙂

If you don’t want to read these, try listening to a couple of the audio studies which can be found here:

Select “To God Be the Glory” and go to the last 5 or 6 available selections.

At least if you read or listen to what the man is actually saying about the Bible, you may not agree, but you will understand the logic being employed.

Lenny 😉

• Lenny the Ebay guy

I haven’t got time to write all this here at 1:35 in the morning, and I’m not sure if the guy who owns this blog would appreciate me doing so.

However…

and go through:

“The End of the Church Age” ….. and …..

“No Man Knows the Day or the Hour?”

all the Bible verses and tie-ins are there.
read it with an open mind, nobody says you have to believe it, just scan through it or read it carefully if you like and see if it speaks to you 🙂

If you don’t want to read these, try listening to a couple of the audio studies which can be found here:

Select “To God Be the Glory” and go to the last 5 or 6 available selections.

At least if you read or listen to what the man is actually saying about the Bible, you may not agree, but you will understand the logic being employed.

Lenny 😉

• Lenny (@26), I’m not sure how much time I should put into replying to you, since I haven’t seen you around before, and I’m not sure how much longer you’ll be around after all this. So I’ll just make a very small post in reply …

You told us to go to the Family Radio Web site and read the article “No Man Knows the Day or the Hour?” I started reading it, and it talked about how, until 35 years ago, no one knew the time or date of Judgement Day (in agreement with the Bible).

The article then goes on to say:

Nevertheless, there is a very striking statement in the Bible. It is recorded in Ecclesiastes 8:5. There God declares: “Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man’s heart discerneth [better translation: will know] both time and judgment.”

The article somehow manages to take this verse in Ecclesiastes completely out of context and use it to counter what the Bible clearly teaches about the Last Day.

But let’s look at that verse. What is its context? It clearly refers to how one relates to earthly authorities: “Obey the king’s command,” it says in 8:2.

Pay close attention to what comes after that: “Do not be in a hurry to leave the king’s presence. Do not stand up for a bad cause, for he will do whatever he pleases.” Look! Advice to “not be in a hurry”! Advice not to “stand up for a bad cause”! When you read the full passage, you realize that verse 5’s reference to “time and judgment” or “time and procedure” merely refer back to these previous statements of verse 3.

The “time” that is referred to that a wise man will know has to do with knowing when not to hurry, not some fallacious ability to predict the future.

But if you don’t believe me, then just read a few verses later, when Ecclestiastes 8:7 says: “Since no man knows the future, who can tell him what is to come?”

Of course, that’s just one verse from this article, but the article hinges on misinterpreting this one verse and taking it out of context, going so far as to completely gainsay what is found a few verses later.

In short, I find the article on the Family Radio Web site to be extremely poorly argued, from a Biblical stance.

• Lenny (@26), I’m not sure how much time I should put into replying to you, since I haven’t seen you around before, and I’m not sure how much longer you’ll be around after all this. So I’ll just make a very small post in reply …

You told us to go to the Family Radio Web site and read the article “No Man Knows the Day or the Hour?” I started reading it, and it talked about how, until 35 years ago, no one knew the time or date of Judgement Day (in agreement with the Bible).

The article then goes on to say:

Nevertheless, there is a very striking statement in the Bible. It is recorded in Ecclesiastes 8:5. There God declares: “Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man’s heart discerneth [better translation: will know] both time and judgment.”

The article somehow manages to take this verse in Ecclesiastes completely out of context and use it to counter what the Bible clearly teaches about the Last Day.

But let’s look at that verse. What is its context? It clearly refers to how one relates to earthly authorities: “Obey the king’s command,” it says in 8:2.

Pay close attention to what comes after that: “Do not be in a hurry to leave the king’s presence. Do not stand up for a bad cause, for he will do whatever he pleases.” Look! Advice to “not be in a hurry”! Advice not to “stand up for a bad cause”! When you read the full passage, you realize that verse 5’s reference to “time and judgment” or “time and procedure” merely refer back to these previous statements of verse 3.

The “time” that is referred to that a wise man will know has to do with knowing when not to hurry, not some fallacious ability to predict the future.

But if you don’t believe me, then just read a few verses later, when Ecclestiastes 8:7 says: “Since no man knows the future, who can tell him what is to come?”

Of course, that’s just one verse from this article, but the article hinges on misinterpreting this one verse and taking it out of context, going so far as to completely gainsay what is found a few verses later.

In short, I find the article on the Family Radio Web site to be extremely poorly argued, from a Biblical stance.

• wayne pelling

Stone the crows has this nice old nutter disregarded the Words of Jesus that no one knows the day nor the hour of His Return . However as Christians we should be ready for Christ’s Return .
I think i will study the great Bible scholar and prophecy writer and fellow Australian -Leon Morris or the excellent writings of Kim Riddlesbarger of california. Both have produced truly theologically and scripturally sound work around prophecy.
Sign on a Church of England noticeboard
SERMON TONIGHT’ When will the Secret Rapture occur”
“Sunday night at 7pm in the Lower Church hall. Supper
served afterwards

• wayne pelling

Stone the crows has this nice old nutter disregarded the Words of Jesus that no one knows the day nor the hour of His Return . However as Christians we should be ready for Christ’s Return .
I think i will study the great Bible scholar and prophecy writer and fellow Australian -Leon Morris or the excellent writings of Kim Riddlesbarger of california. Both have produced truly theologically and scripturally sound work around prophecy.
Sign on a Church of England noticeboard
SERMON TONIGHT’ When will the Secret Rapture occur”
“Sunday night at 7pm in the Lower Church hall. Supper
served afterwards

• WebMonk

Guys, you’re never going to get anywhere with nutters like Camping and his followers. Ignore him. Camping’s hard core followers are a cult, and you can’t reason with devoted cult members in this sort of manner.

• WebMonk

Guys, you’re never going to get anywhere with nutters like Camping and his followers. Ignore him. Camping’s hard core followers are a cult, and you can’t reason with devoted cult members in this sort of manner.

• WebMonk (@29), with all respect (and I do respect you), that’s not a Christian attitude.

Of course, reasoning isn’t, as such, sharing the Gospel, but I don’t think we as Christians should base our decision to engage people with the Bible on whether or not we think they’re likely to be won over by our particular logic.

If anyone is going to be won over to the truth, it’s not going to be my doing, but God’s. All I can do is share what God has said. And the Holy Spirit can work even in the minds of “devoted cult members”. Or else we’re all lost.

None of which is to say that my response was the best it could have been, but then, I’m not sure the intended party has read it, either.

• WebMonk (@29), with all respect (and I do respect you), that’s not a Christian attitude.

Of course, reasoning isn’t, as such, sharing the Gospel, but I don’t think we as Christians should base our decision to engage people with the Bible on whether or not we think they’re likely to be won over by our particular logic.

If anyone is going to be won over to the truth, it’s not going to be my doing, but God’s. All I can do is share what God has said. And the Holy Spirit can work even in the minds of “devoted cult members”. Or else we’re all lost.

None of which is to say that my response was the best it could have been, but then, I’m not sure the intended party has read it, either.

• WebMonk

I guess that came out wrong. It’s not that we shouldn’t reason with people, but with some people, an Internet comment thread is perhaps the worst possible place and often has the opposite effect.

Not too long ago I read a study in which it was found that impersonal communications to convince people, of which comments are probably the most impersonal, have a polarizing effect on people who are firmly of a particular opinion. It doesn’t convince, but rather hardens opinions.

More harm than good, and all that.

(The study was pretty cool – randomized groups were told opposite “facts” – cautious or reckless people make better firemen. They were measured on how firmly they held those opinions. The next day they came in to discuss with each other, one-on-one, their facts. Some did it online via chat, and others did it face to face. Afterward they were again measured on their firmness of belief. The chatters were pretty heavily solidified into their first opinion, while the face-to-face people mostly moderated their firmness, and in various cases swapped sides.)

After reading that study, I slowed down on my commenting on a variety of places. Since then, I’ve picked back up a little, but I realize that I’m probably going to only strengthen my conversant’s opinions. Now I do it pretty strictly with the audience as a target of any persuasion attempts rather than the person with whom I’m conversing.

• WebMonk

I guess that came out wrong. It’s not that we shouldn’t reason with people, but with some people, an Internet comment thread is perhaps the worst possible place and often has the opposite effect.

Not too long ago I read a study in which it was found that impersonal communications to convince people, of which comments are probably the most impersonal, have a polarizing effect on people who are firmly of a particular opinion. It doesn’t convince, but rather hardens opinions.

More harm than good, and all that.

(The study was pretty cool – randomized groups were told opposite “facts” – cautious or reckless people make better firemen. They were measured on how firmly they held those opinions. The next day they came in to discuss with each other, one-on-one, their facts. Some did it online via chat, and others did it face to face. Afterward they were again measured on their firmness of belief. The chatters were pretty heavily solidified into their first opinion, while the face-to-face people mostly moderated their firmness, and in various cases swapped sides.)

After reading that study, I slowed down on my commenting on a variety of places. Since then, I’ve picked back up a little, but I realize that I’m probably going to only strengthen my conversant’s opinions. Now I do it pretty strictly with the audience as a target of any persuasion attempts rather than the person with whom I’m conversing.

• WebMonk (@31), that is interesting.

However, without anything but anecdotes to back me up, I’d posit that there’s a difference between people engaging in a controlled, random experiment and, say, the lot of us commenting here. For one thing, I’ve come to know several of you fairly well — perhaps differently than if I knew you in “meatspace”, sure, but then, perhaps not. I probably know more about some of your thoughts on faith, politics, etc., than I do for people I talk to every day. That makes a difference.

Even so, of course, being humans as we are, we’re more prone to convince ourselves than other people. I don’t think this is fundamentally altered by communications medium.

But then, I don’t consider this medium as “impersonal” as you do, I guess. It can be, sure. But it can also be as personal as a letter between friends. All depends. A form letter from a corporation would be much more impersonal, though, yes?

I feel like the opinions expressed on this blog have definitely influenced me. Maybe not in the sudden U-turn sense, but more of a slow, gentle tug.

But then, a lot of times, my opinions are challenged here not so much by what other people have written, but by my own inability to back up my own opinions. Others here don’t see this take place, but sometimes in the course of trying to compose a response I realize my case isn’t as strong as I’d thought it was.

Oh, and one more thing. I think we’d both agree that there’s a difference between holding to random (and randomized) factoids, and discussing the Word of God. Merely by reading (or speaking) it, the Word of God has a power its own beyond our own reasoning.

Which is why it’s a good idea for us to use more of God’s Word and less of our reasoning in discussions. The former is the only one that has actual efficacy.

• WebMonk (@31), that is interesting.

However, without anything but anecdotes to back me up, I’d posit that there’s a difference between people engaging in a controlled, random experiment and, say, the lot of us commenting here. For one thing, I’ve come to know several of you fairly well — perhaps differently than if I knew you in “meatspace”, sure, but then, perhaps not. I probably know more about some of your thoughts on faith, politics, etc., than I do for people I talk to every day. That makes a difference.

Even so, of course, being humans as we are, we’re more prone to convince ourselves than other people. I don’t think this is fundamentally altered by communications medium.

But then, I don’t consider this medium as “impersonal” as you do, I guess. It can be, sure. But it can also be as personal as a letter between friends. All depends. A form letter from a corporation would be much more impersonal, though, yes?

I feel like the opinions expressed on this blog have definitely influenced me. Maybe not in the sudden U-turn sense, but more of a slow, gentle tug.

But then, a lot of times, my opinions are challenged here not so much by what other people have written, but by my own inability to back up my own opinions. Others here don’t see this take place, but sometimes in the course of trying to compose a response I realize my case isn’t as strong as I’d thought it was.

Oh, and one more thing. I think we’d both agree that there’s a difference between holding to random (and randomized) factoids, and discussing the Word of God. Merely by reading (or speaking) it, the Word of God has a power its own beyond our own reasoning.

Which is why it’s a good idea for us to use more of God’s Word and less of our reasoning in discussions. The former is the only one that has actual efficacy.

• WebMonk

I tend to agree, and while I feel like I know you guys fairly well too, Lenny is a browse-by commenter. (as far as I know, I’m not as active on these boards as I used to be)

It would be great to have him here as a long-time commenter though.

Hmmm, I think my terms like nutter and cults probably didn’t encourage that, though, did they? :-S

But, you’re definitely right about the power of God’s words. And, if nothing else there are those few who do change, even from reading things on comments.

• WebMonk

I tend to agree, and while I feel like I know you guys fairly well too, Lenny is a browse-by commenter. (as far as I know, I’m not as active on these boards as I used to be)

It would be great to have him here as a long-time commenter though.

Hmmm, I think my terms like nutter and cults probably didn’t encourage that, though, did they? :-S

But, you’re definitely right about the power of God’s words. And, if nothing else there are those few who do change, even from reading things on comments.

• wayne .pelling

Sorry Lenny but Iam not scoffing,rather appalled that someone like Camping can clearly ignore the directive of Christ inthe Scripture as to the time of His Return.It is statements like his that make Christianity a laughing stock .
We have a Pentercostal pastor here in Australia who after the disastrous bushfires of 7th February 2009 -173 people died- came out and said that he had had a vision of fires engulfing our State in October 2008. If he claims to have had a viison from God he should have made it public asap rather than using prophecy as hindsight.He should have warned people of the situaiton and have said it wasjudgement then rather than later.
We should all be living as if He Died yesterday, arose from the dead today and is Coming back tomorrow

• wayne .pelling

Sorry Lenny but Iam not scoffing,rather appalled that someone like Camping can clearly ignore the directive of Christ inthe Scripture as to the time of His Return.It is statements like his that make Christianity a laughing stock .
We have a Pentercostal pastor here in Australia who after the disastrous bushfires of 7th February 2009 -173 people died- came out and said that he had had a vision of fires engulfing our State in October 2008. If he claims to have had a viison from God he should have made it public asap rather than using prophecy as hindsight.He should have warned people of the situaiton and have said it wasjudgement then rather than later.
We should all be living as if He Died yesterday, arose from the dead today and is Coming back tomorrow

• Efrem

I still can’t forgive Mr. Camping for buying up the Mighty 610 (KFRC) in San Francisco and turning into one of his robot stations. Moldy theology replacing my beloved oldies, bleh!!

• Efrem

I still can’t forgive Mr. Camping for buying up the Mighty 610 (KFRC) in San Francisco and turning into one of his robot stations. Moldy theology replacing my beloved oldies, bleh!!

• Efrem

Lenny:

If I recall and it might have been cited before in this thread Matthew 24:36-39 does NOT mention scoffing. The correct passage is this:

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Clearly, the meaning is that His coming will come on a day that is entirely ordinary–could be today, could be 1,000 years from now.

• Efrem

Lenny:

If I recall and it might have been cited before in this thread Matthew 24:36-39 does NOT mention scoffing. The correct passage is this:

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Clearly, the meaning is that His coming will come on a day that is entirely ordinary–could be today, could be 1,000 years from now.

• daylight

For everyone interested in the answer to the question “no man knows the day or hour?” (concise, accurate, brief)

• daylight

For everyone interested in the answer to the question “no man knows the day or hour?” (concise, accurate, brief)

• Daylight (@37), I’m not sure if, like Lenny (@26), you’re a post-and-run kind of guy, but I already wrote (@27) why the article you linked to on FamilyRadio.com is not, in fact, “accurate” — or, at least, it is a terrible example of understanding Scripture.

• Daylight (@37), I’m not sure if, like Lenny (@26), you’re a post-and-run kind of guy, but I already wrote (@27) why the article you linked to on FamilyRadio.com is not, in fact, “accurate” — or, at least, it is a terrible example of understanding Scripture.

• daylight

To TODD;
The accuracy of the link’s content and context is intact. Nothing currently understood from God’s Holy Scripture has altered or invalidated any of the information it contains. To convince me of your stance, you’ll have to work to invalidate — using God’s Holy Bible alone — the entire Biblical time line and the most recent revelations of the complete teachings regarding details of God’s salvation and judgment. That process would take you much more time than anyone has, and the results would not refute but confirm the information in the link. God has proclaimed and people can rebel against it if they wish. However, the hope is many souls will plead to God for His mercy, while God’s hope of mercy is still in the world (until 5/21/2011). Revelation 7:9-17; Acts 17:21-31; Isaiah 43:10-12;etc.

• daylight

To TODD;
The accuracy of the link’s content and context is intact. Nothing currently understood from God’s Holy Scripture has altered or invalidated any of the information it contains. To convince me of your stance, you’ll have to work to invalidate — using God’s Holy Bible alone — the entire Biblical time line and the most recent revelations of the complete teachings regarding details of God’s salvation and judgment. That process would take you much more time than anyone has, and the results would not refute but confirm the information in the link. God has proclaimed and people can rebel against it if they wish. However, the hope is many souls will plead to God for His mercy, while God’s hope of mercy is still in the world (until 5/21/2011). Revelation 7:9-17; Acts 17:21-31; Isaiah 43:10-12;etc.

• Daylight (@39), it did not take me “much more time than anyone has” to find Biblical refutation, and frankly, it’s a bit silly to ever make such a claim. The Bible is a finite document, and can easily be read many times over by a person. It is knowable. As such, any claim about what God says can be confirmed or refuted Biblically, and it needn’t take “more time than anyone has”, or else we’re all lost.

Anyhow, you say that “God has proclaimed” what is in the article you link to, but, to be perfectly honest, that article, while citing some Bible verses that are not relevant in determining the future, clearly ignores — and contradicts! — what the Bible does say about the future. And it does this by listening to what man, not God, has proclaimed.

I have already pointed out (@27) why Ecclesiastes 8:5 has nothing to do with determining the future. Here is another false teaching of man from your article: “This explains why the Bible is written in such complex and difficult-to-understand language.” Um, no. Here is what God has to say about Scripture: “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” Anyone who would intentionally teach you that the Bible is “complex” and “difficult” doesn’t seem too interested in your understanding it. My advice is to run — don’t walk — from such a teacher. Find a church that encourages you to study the Scriptures and doesn’t tell you that its teachings are incapable of being assessed Biblically within the time you have.

And here is more teaching of men, not God, from your article:

Several years ago we had learned that the silence in Heaven for about half an hour referred to the 2,300 days that were the first part of the 23-year (exactly 8,400 days) Great Tribulation period. This period began on May 21, 1988. It was during this 2,300-day period that, both in the churches and throughout the world, very few, if any, were saved.

This will, of course, come as a surprise to those souls that came to faith between 1988 and 1994.

But look. There is no reason to go on assessing your article, because here is what God has actually proclaimed, contrary to what your article teaches:

“Since no man knows the future, who can tell him what is to come?” Ecclesiastes 8:7, and really a giveaway for the context of the verse from that same chapter your article quotes.

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” Matthew 24:36-44

I’ll take God’s plain teaching in the Bible over complicated mathematical manipulation any day. God willing, you will, too.

• Daylight (@39), it did not take me “much more time than anyone has” to find Biblical refutation, and frankly, it’s a bit silly to ever make such a claim. The Bible is a finite document, and can easily be read many times over by a person. It is knowable. As such, any claim about what God says can be confirmed or refuted Biblically, and it needn’t take “more time than anyone has”, or else we’re all lost.

Anyhow, you say that “God has proclaimed” what is in the article you link to, but, to be perfectly honest, that article, while citing some Bible verses that are not relevant in determining the future, clearly ignores — and contradicts! — what the Bible does say about the future. And it does this by listening to what man, not God, has proclaimed.

I have already pointed out (@27) why Ecclesiastes 8:5 has nothing to do with determining the future. Here is another false teaching of man from your article: “This explains why the Bible is written in such complex and difficult-to-understand language.” Um, no. Here is what God has to say about Scripture: “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” Anyone who would intentionally teach you that the Bible is “complex” and “difficult” doesn’t seem too interested in your understanding it. My advice is to run — don’t walk — from such a teacher. Find a church that encourages you to study the Scriptures and doesn’t tell you that its teachings are incapable of being assessed Biblically within the time you have.

And here is more teaching of men, not God, from your article:

Several years ago we had learned that the silence in Heaven for about half an hour referred to the 2,300 days that were the first part of the 23-year (exactly 8,400 days) Great Tribulation period. This period began on May 21, 1988. It was during this 2,300-day period that, both in the churches and throughout the world, very few, if any, were saved.

This will, of course, come as a surprise to those souls that came to faith between 1988 and 1994.

But look. There is no reason to go on assessing your article, because here is what God has actually proclaimed, contrary to what your article teaches:

“Since no man knows the future, who can tell him what is to come?” Ecclesiastes 8:7, and really a giveaway for the context of the verse from that same chapter your article quotes.

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” Matthew 24:36-44

I’ll take God’s plain teaching in the Bible over complicated mathematical manipulation any day. God willing, you will, too.

• daylight

The Bible is the infinite word of God, as God is infinite. No one can understand an infinite God, the Creator of all creations seen and unseen. Consequently, only heresy will result if anyone attempts make God and/or make God’s word “finite” as you have been persuaded to do.

Re: Math

The mathematics involve is elementary (at an elementary school level). Nevertheless, I understand some people may have difficulty with elementary math. Mercifully, hearkening to God’s proclamation of 5/21/2011 doesn’t require math skills. It requires a new soul given by the grace of the infinite God of God’s Holy Bible. (Ezekiel 11:19)

Granted you do have writing and typing skills, by your argument fell far short, and is not even reasonably close to satisfying my earlier request.

• daylight

The Bible is the infinite word of God, as God is infinite. No one can understand an infinite God, the Creator of all creations seen and unseen. Consequently, only heresy will result if anyone attempts make God and/or make God’s word “finite” as you have been persuaded to do.

Re: Math

The mathematics involve is elementary (at an elementary school level). Nevertheless, I understand some people may have difficulty with elementary math. Mercifully, hearkening to God’s proclamation of 5/21/2011 doesn’t require math skills. It requires a new soul given by the grace of the infinite God of God’s Holy Bible. (Ezekiel 11:19)

Granted you do have writing and typing skills, by your argument fell far short, and is not even reasonably close to satisfying my earlier request.

• Daylight (@41),

Todd just gave you a well-reasoned response, but clearly you don’t find it convincing. I’ll bite. What would it take to convince you that God is not into numerology and that he has plainly told his plan for salvation in the pages of scripture without the need for a decoder ring?

I think that we can all agree that words on a page can have finite meaning as well as infinite significance and efficacy. We’re not impugning God’s Word or his power, just interpretations of that Word that seek to undermine the clarity of his plan.

So really, what would it take?

Pax,

Eric

• Daylight (@41),

Todd just gave you a well-reasoned response, but clearly you don’t find it convincing. I’ll bite. What would it take to convince you that God is not into numerology and that he has plainly told his plan for salvation in the pages of scripture without the need for a decoder ring?

I think that we can all agree that words on a page can have finite meaning as well as infinite significance and efficacy. We’re not impugning God’s Word or his power, just interpretations of that Word that seek to undermine the clarity of his plan.

So really, what would it take?

Pax,

Eric

• Daylight (@41), I believe this discussion of infinity is likely distracting, but, as to your apparent claim that the Bible is “infinite”, I’d like to point out that it has a beginning and an end. It is, by definition, finite. My point in noting this isn’t to make God less infinite than he obviously is, but rather to note that what God has revealed to us about him is not beyond our understanding, but, as 2 Timothy notes, actually useful for our understanding.

And you are wrong in asserting that the burden of evidence is on me. I have presented you with several clear excerpts from Scripture that make it plain that “No one knows about that day or hour” and “the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” If you are going to claim otherwise, you will have to do so with more than a series of multiplications and arguments from mystical knowledge about secret revelations in the past 35 years.

• Daylight (@41), I believe this discussion of infinity is likely distracting, but, as to your apparent claim that the Bible is “infinite”, I’d like to point out that it has a beginning and an end. It is, by definition, finite. My point in noting this isn’t to make God less infinite than he obviously is, but rather to note that what God has revealed to us about him is not beyond our understanding, but, as 2 Timothy notes, actually useful for our understanding.

And you are wrong in asserting that the burden of evidence is on me. I have presented you with several clear excerpts from Scripture that make it plain that “No one knows about that day or hour” and “the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” If you are going to claim otherwise, you will have to do so with more than a series of multiplications and arguments from mystical knowledge about secret revelations in the past 35 years.

• daylight

To Eric;

Mocking God’s proclamation (e.g. “decoder ring,” “numerology”) provides evidence of your view of God’s proclaimed time line (11,013 B.C. — 2011 A.D.). Regardless, God’s Holy Bible’s timeline has not been refuted by any church, person or theologian, etc. because the timeline is also God’s Holy word.

To Todd;

You have expressed you have doubts. Therefore, it is for your own soul, not my or another person’s soul, for which you have the burden of seeking the evidence and the proof — again, it is up to you, for yourself.

• daylight

To Eric;

Mocking God’s proclamation (e.g. “decoder ring,” “numerology”) provides evidence of your view of God’s proclaimed time line (11,013 B.C. — 2011 A.D.). Regardless, God’s Holy Bible’s timeline has not been refuted by any church, person or theologian, etc. because the timeline is also God’s Holy word.

To Todd;

You have expressed you have doubts. Therefore, it is for your own soul, not my or another person’s soul, for which you have the burden of seeking the evidence and the proof — again, it is up to you, for yourself.

• Daylight (@44), you said I’ve expressed I “have doubts”. What are you referring to?

You also said to me, “it is for your own soul, not my or another person’s soul, for which you have the burden of seeking the evidence and the proof.” But I have sought the “evidence and the proof” in the Bible, and found that you are wrong in claiming to know the date of Judgment Day. That is clear — I have no doubts on that point.

Again, I strongly urge you to meditate on Matthew 24 and hear what Jesus has to say to you, even and especially if it contradicts what you are hearing in your church.

• Daylight (@44), you said I’ve expressed I “have doubts”. What are you referring to?

You also said to me, “it is for your own soul, not my or another person’s soul, for which you have the burden of seeking the evidence and the proof.” But I have sought the “evidence and the proof” in the Bible, and found that you are wrong in claiming to know the date of Judgment Day. That is clear — I have no doubts on that point.

Again, I strongly urge you to meditate on Matthew 24 and hear what Jesus has to say to you, even and especially if it contradicts what you are hearing in your church.

• daylight

To Todd:

You have doubts about Ecclesiastes 8:5,6 and every passage (several hundred) which relate to time, and God’s time for the end.

Note: The world is being called (Acts 17:21-31) to seek God’s mercy and obey (John 14:15) in preparation to meet God (Amos 4:6-13) on 5/21/2011, the beginning of God’s Judgment Day — as God’s Holy Bible, God’s word, is proclaiming in advance.

P.S. You are correct, the churches cannot help anyone in that the churches died in 1988 according to God’s Holy Bible’s established and purposed timeline.

May God bless according to His will.

• daylight

To Todd:

You have doubts about Ecclesiastes 8:5,6 and every passage (several hundred) which relate to time, and God’s time for the end.

Note: The world is being called (Acts 17:21-31) to seek God’s mercy and obey (John 14:15) in preparation to meet God (Amos 4:6-13) on 5/21/2011, the beginning of God’s Judgment Day — as God’s Holy Bible, God’s word, is proclaiming in advance.

P.S. You are correct, the churches cannot help anyone in that the churches died in 1988 according to God’s Holy Bible’s established and purposed timeline.

May God bless according to His will.

• Daylight (@46), you said I “have doubts about Ecclesiastes 8:5,6 and every passage” that relates to Judgment Day. Um, is this some kind of Jedi mind trick? Because I don’t have doubts about what the Bible says — it is clear on the matter. Nor, frankly, am I in doubt that what you are claiming here about the date of Judgment Day is in obvious contradiction of what the Bible teaches.

I mean, are you reading any of the Bible verses you’re throwing my way? None of them contradict the Bible verses I pointed out to you earlier. The Bible clearly and consistently teaches that, in the words of the Bible itself, “No one knows about that day or hour.” That goes for you and whatever man is teaching you these things. “The Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him,” Daylight.

If you want to tell me that you do know the hour, you will have to go outside the Bible, to go against what it teaches. And so you have done.

I am not worried about when that day will come, because I stand in the grace given me by Jesus through the faith into which I was (and am) baptized — not because of my own works, but because of what He has done for me. The last day could be today, or it could be many, many years from now.

But I am concerned for you. Should God allow you to live that long, and should he choose in his mercy to let his creation go on that long, you and yours will be in a sorry state. You will find yourself confused by why things didn’t happen the way you were told. You will, at that point, be obviously following a false prophet. Where will your faith turn at that point? My hope is that you will then turn to the Bible and what it clearly teaches — not what you are being taught now.

But you do not have to wait until May 21, 2011 to turn away from the teachings of men and towards what God has lovingly revealed in his Word. You can do that today. And it is my prayer that you do. Your soul is at stake.

• Daylight (@46), you said I “have doubts about Ecclesiastes 8:5,6 and every passage” that relates to Judgment Day. Um, is this some kind of Jedi mind trick? Because I don’t have doubts about what the Bible says — it is clear on the matter. Nor, frankly, am I in doubt that what you are claiming here about the date of Judgment Day is in obvious contradiction of what the Bible teaches.

I mean, are you reading any of the Bible verses you’re throwing my way? None of them contradict the Bible verses I pointed out to you earlier. The Bible clearly and consistently teaches that, in the words of the Bible itself, “No one knows about that day or hour.” That goes for you and whatever man is teaching you these things. “The Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him,” Daylight.

If you want to tell me that you do know the hour, you will have to go outside the Bible, to go against what it teaches. And so you have done.

I am not worried about when that day will come, because I stand in the grace given me by Jesus through the faith into which I was (and am) baptized — not because of my own works, but because of what He has done for me. The last day could be today, or it could be many, many years from now.

But I am concerned for you. Should God allow you to live that long, and should he choose in his mercy to let his creation go on that long, you and yours will be in a sorry state. You will find yourself confused by why things didn’t happen the way you were told. You will, at that point, be obviously following a false prophet. Where will your faith turn at that point? My hope is that you will then turn to the Bible and what it clearly teaches — not what you are being taught now.

But you do not have to wait until May 21, 2011 to turn away from the teachings of men and towards what God has lovingly revealed in his Word. You can do that today. And it is my prayer that you do. Your soul is at stake.

• daylight

To Todd

Your verbosity doesn’t help or assist. Additionally, your assessment of who and who isn’t a false prophet is also mute. It is common practice today to accuse this individual or that individual.

Pertaining to the concern you share for my well being: It is unwarranted. Christ is the Saviour, tree of life, prince of peace, etc…..Psalms 119 speaks of His Holy word in glory and praise.

As for the few passages I provided? Please note, I cannot, nor can anyone else, open another person’s “eyes” to the truth of the full council of God’s word which includes His timetable. Each person has to do his or her own prayerful, patient study as God MAY grace.

(Revelation 7:9-17)

Best Regards,
daylight

• daylight

To Todd

Your verbosity doesn’t help or assist. Additionally, your assessment of who and who isn’t a false prophet is also mute. It is common practice today to accuse this individual or that individual.

Pertaining to the concern you share for my well being: It is unwarranted. Christ is the Saviour, tree of life, prince of peace, etc…..Psalms 119 speaks of His Holy word in glory and praise.

As for the few passages I provided? Please note, I cannot, nor can anyone else, open another person’s “eyes” to the truth of the full council of God’s word which includes His timetable. Each person has to do his or her own prayerful, patient study as God MAY grace.

(Revelation 7:9-17)

Best Regards,
daylight

• Daylight (@48), then let me be succinct: you need to prayerfully, patiently study Matthew 24. You have yet to reply to the clear teaching of this passage, which I will again quote for you:

“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

• Daylight (@48), then let me be succinct: you need to prayerfully, patiently study Matthew 24. You have yet to reply to the clear teaching of this passage, which I will again quote for you:

“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

• daylight

To Todd:

My study of Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and related passages has already been completed regarding their relevance to God’s time line, the Great Tribulation, death of the churches, Caught-up/Judgment Day and other teachings God has harmonized through via rest of His Holy Bible.

The first couple of paragraphs in the link provided earlier addresses your concerns, explaining why it is now time for God to let people know. http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/nomanknows/nomanknows.html

Also, an important note: If the date had been written explicitly, “May 21, 2011 A.D., Gregorian calendar,” in God’s Holy Bible, then it would not have remained hidden until near the end of time as God had promised it would in Daniel 12, etc..

Practically speaking, time for debate/argue/rehashing is ending. Jonah announced to Nineveh the 40 day time frame. God gave one or two days warning to Sodom, and Noah gave 120 years of warning as God commanded. This world has about 15 months warning remaining. Billions of people are to be alerted; so time is precious.(redeeming the time)

• daylight

To Todd:

My study of Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and related passages has already been completed regarding their relevance to God’s time line, the Great Tribulation, death of the churches, Caught-up/Judgment Day and other teachings God has harmonized through via rest of His Holy Bible.

The first couple of paragraphs in the link provided earlier addresses your concerns, explaining why it is now time for God to let people know. http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/nomanknows/nomanknows.html

Also, an important note: If the date had been written explicitly, “May 21, 2011 A.D., Gregorian calendar,” in God’s Holy Bible, then it would not have remained hidden until near the end of time as God had promised it would in Daniel 12, etc..

Practically speaking, time for debate/argue/rehashing is ending. Jonah announced to Nineveh the 40 day time frame. God gave one or two days warning to Sodom, and Noah gave 120 years of warning as God commanded. This world has about 15 months warning remaining. Billions of people are to be alerted; so time is precious.(redeeming the time)

• Dave

This is a test to see if I can post
Dave

• Dave

This is a test to see if I can post
Dave

• Dave

To all,
Whoever started this post I thank you.

A big question is,Can we know the time of the Lords return?The answer to this must be found in the bible.This is where we get truth.Now,If we go to Amos3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
The believers are servents and prophets.Also
Ecll.8:5 Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man’s heart discerneth both time and judgment.
We could not know about the Lords return untill we got close to the end.
For more information from the bible on how this date was arrived at you can go to ebilefellowship.com
Dave

• Dave

To all,
Whoever started this post I thank you.

A big question is,Can we know the time of the Lords return?The answer to this must be found in the bible.This is where we get truth.Now,If we go to Amos3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
The believers are servents and prophets.Also
Ecll.8:5 Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man’s heart discerneth both time and judgment.
We could not know about the Lords return untill we got close to the end.
For more information from the bible on how this date was arrived at you can go to ebilefellowship.com
Dave

• Dave

To all,
The information about the end was always in the bible but God sealed it untill the end.We read this in Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
God told daniel to seal it in a book(the bible)In our time God is removing the seals as we read in Rev. 5,6,7 and 8.We were not to be concerned about the end,we were to be busy going in all the world with the gospel.But when we get close to the end God is removing the seals.
Dave

• Dave

To all,
The information about the end was always in the bible but God sealed it untill the end.We read this in Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
God told daniel to seal it in a book(the bible)In our time God is removing the seals as we read in Rev. 5,6,7 and 8.We were not to be concerned about the end,we were to be busy going in all the world with the gospel.But when we get close to the end God is removing the seals.
Dave

• Dave

testing
Dave

• Dave

testing
Dave

• Dave

Help,I tried posting it looked like it took it but it did not.Why,
Dave

• Dave

Help,I tried posting it looked like it took it but it did not.Why,
Dave

• Dave

Todd,
You said:”“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
This was true up into we get close to the end as we read in Daniel 12 God had sealed this information up.
But when that verse say “NOR the Son”This is not refering to Jesus because He is God and God knows all.Satan is also refered to as son.The translateres capitalized son so we thought it was Jesus.I believe God had sealed this up also.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Dave

• Dave

Todd,
You said:”“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
This was true up into we get close to the end as we read in Daniel 12 God had sealed this information up.
But when that verse say “NOR the Son”This is not refering to Jesus because He is God and God knows all.Satan is also refered to as son.The translateres capitalized son so we thought it was Jesus.I believe God had sealed this up also.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Dave

• Okay I finally have a bit of time to respond properly.

I’m getting a bit confused with the interpretive gymnastics going on here. These date-setting interpretations are exegetically indefensible.

Daylight (@44): You did not even address my question except to ridicule me. If that’s how you debate, then hey, who am I to question? But you didn’t even try to reason with me.

Dave (@51-56): “Son” in Matthew 24 refers to Jesus, Son of God, son of David, son of Abraham, son of Mary, and Son of Man, among others. Never does Matthew refer to Satan as “a son of God.” I could do incredible violence to God’s Word by carelessly importing improbable meanings like that. I certainly affirm that Jesus is fully God and fully man, but still he says here (as he also says in the parallel passage Mark 13:32) that he didn’t know when he would return. How that works, I have no idea. But there’s a lot of that kind of stuff in scripture. Like what about this… Jesus says that God is often described as “the living God.” If that’s the case, and if Jesus truly is the living God, then how did Jesus die?

In moments like that, I just go by what Jesus says, let the plain texts interpret the difficult ones (iow, I start with Matthew and then use that to interpret writings like Revelation, Daniel, and the other apocalyptic writings, rather than the other way around), and stick to the plain meaning (unless it’s obvious that God intends the text to be symbolic).

…Which brings me to your interpretation of the Daniel passage… Daniel is tricky, no doubt about it, and I can tell that you and I both agree in that we want God’s word to speak for itself. So it behooves us to proceed with caution. Now I’ve not studied Daniel enough to speak to your interpretation, but if his prophecy is anything like the rest of the Old Testament, he is speaking to Daniel’s present time and the time of Christ’s first coming, not just the last days.

But here’s one for you… Hebrews 1:1-2a says, “Although at many times and in many different ways God spoke to the fathers of old by the prophets, during the last of these days, he has spoken to us by [his] Son…” (my own translation)

The author refers to the days after Christ’s ascent into heaven — the days in which he was then living and the days in which we are now living — as “these last days.” The word “last” in Greek is eschatos, which means “final” or “end,” not “these last few days.” It is the word from which we derive the term eschatology, or study of the end times. But he calls “these days” the “last days.” Was the author of Hebrews wrong, or does “last” take on a different meaning for the sake of our modern-day prophets and apocalypticists?

Also, the word for “at many times” could also mean “in many pieces,” which hints that the message he gave through the prophets was piecemeal, not one homogeneous whole — more like quilting than weaving. In Jesus, however, God spoke to us once for all time. His message to the world is complete in Christ.

The author of Hebrews is saying that prophecy is inferior to the words of Christ because Christ has, in one fell swoop, replaced them as God’s means of revelation to his people. Sure, prophecy continued for a time after Jesus, but the messianic prophets were concerned more about the message of the Cross and empty tomb than with the exact day and hour of the return of the Son of Man.

I wouldn’t harp on this so much or respond at such great length, except that these so-called “prophetic” messengers who continually predict the return of Christ are like diviners. They rely on some kind of process — mostly numerology — to predict signs of the times the way diviners read bird formations in the sky, cat entrails, the constellations and planets, tea leaves, tarot cards, or the lines on a person’s hand.

Prophets of God have never been able to bring God to heel like that. God spoke through them, and the way they received his Word was inexplicable. It is the mark of a diviner that they use physical means to predict the future. It was the mark of a prophet of the one true God that their predictions came true, no matter how long it took.

If you trust this guy and truly believe his message is God’s Word, then there’s nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. But if it does turn out he gets this one wrong, be ready to pick up a rock. Let the world keep its prophets; I put my trust in the Son, and he doesn’t need any help!

Peace of Christ,

Eric

• Okay I finally have a bit of time to respond properly.

I’m getting a bit confused with the interpretive gymnastics going on here. These date-setting interpretations are exegetically indefensible.

Daylight (@44): You did not even address my question except to ridicule me. If that’s how you debate, then hey, who am I to question? But you didn’t even try to reason with me.

Dave (@51-56): “Son” in Matthew 24 refers to Jesus, Son of God, son of David, son of Abraham, son of Mary, and Son of Man, among others. Never does Matthew refer to Satan as “a son of God.” I could do incredible violence to God’s Word by carelessly importing improbable meanings like that. I certainly affirm that Jesus is fully God and fully man, but still he says here (as he also says in the parallel passage Mark 13:32) that he didn’t know when he would return. How that works, I have no idea. But there’s a lot of that kind of stuff in scripture. Like what about this… Jesus says that God is often described as “the living God.” If that’s the case, and if Jesus truly is the living God, then how did Jesus die?

In moments like that, I just go by what Jesus says, let the plain texts interpret the difficult ones (iow, I start with Matthew and then use that to interpret writings like Revelation, Daniel, and the other apocalyptic writings, rather than the other way around), and stick to the plain meaning (unless it’s obvious that God intends the text to be symbolic).

…Which brings me to your interpretation of the Daniel passage… Daniel is tricky, no doubt about it, and I can tell that you and I both agree in that we want God’s word to speak for itself. So it behooves us to proceed with caution. Now I’ve not studied Daniel enough to speak to your interpretation, but if his prophecy is anything like the rest of the Old Testament, he is speaking to Daniel’s present time and the time of Christ’s first coming, not just the last days.

But here’s one for you… Hebrews 1:1-2a says, “Although at many times and in many different ways God spoke to the fathers of old by the prophets, during the last of these days, he has spoken to us by [his] Son…” (my own translation)

The author refers to the days after Christ’s ascent into heaven — the days in which he was then living and the days in which we are now living — as “these last days.” The word “last” in Greek is eschatos, which means “final” or “end,” not “these last few days.” It is the word from which we derive the term eschatology, or study of the end times. But he calls “these days” the “last days.” Was the author of Hebrews wrong, or does “last” take on a different meaning for the sake of our modern-day prophets and apocalypticists?

Also, the word for “at many times” could also mean “in many pieces,” which hints that the message he gave through the prophets was piecemeal, not one homogeneous whole — more like quilting than weaving. In Jesus, however, God spoke to us once for all time. His message to the world is complete in Christ.

The author of Hebrews is saying that prophecy is inferior to the words of Christ because Christ has, in one fell swoop, replaced them as God’s means of revelation to his people. Sure, prophecy continued for a time after Jesus, but the messianic prophets were concerned more about the message of the Cross and empty tomb than with the exact day and hour of the return of the Son of Man.

I wouldn’t harp on this so much or respond at such great length, except that these so-called “prophetic” messengers who continually predict the return of Christ are like diviners. They rely on some kind of process — mostly numerology — to predict signs of the times the way diviners read bird formations in the sky, cat entrails, the constellations and planets, tea leaves, tarot cards, or the lines on a person’s hand.

Prophets of God have never been able to bring God to heel like that. God spoke through them, and the way they received his Word was inexplicable. It is the mark of a diviner that they use physical means to predict the future. It was the mark of a prophet of the one true God that their predictions came true, no matter how long it took.

If you trust this guy and truly believe his message is God’s Word, then there’s nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. But if it does turn out he gets this one wrong, be ready to pick up a rock. Let the world keep its prophets; I put my trust in the Son, and he doesn’t need any help!

Peace of Christ,

Eric

• daylight

To Eric;

My observation of your earlier response was precise and accurate. Your “decoder rings” and “numerology” references were way off base.

A Christian is to reason with God, with His word:

Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”

From only reasoning with God’s Holy word, the date was revealed as God has graced, to His glory. 5/21/2011 is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the end of Holy God’s salvation, and the beginning of Holy God’s promised judgment upon unsaved mankind.

11013 B.C. — 2011 A.D. is God’s established and purposed time line according to God’s Holy Bible by God’s will.

• daylight

To Eric;

My observation of your earlier response was precise and accurate. Your “decoder rings” and “numerology” references were way off base.

A Christian is to reason with God, with His word:

Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”

From only reasoning with God’s Holy word, the date was revealed as God has graced, to His glory. 5/21/2011 is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the end of Holy God’s salvation, and the beginning of Holy God’s promised judgment upon unsaved mankind.

11013 B.C. — 2011 A.D. is God’s established and purposed time line according to God’s Holy Bible by God’s will.

• Dave

Eric,
Thank you for responding.I can tell you are very carefull with the word of God.I believe you care what the word of God says,not what man says.That is rare these days.
I also see in Heb.that any time after Christ arose these are refered to as the last days.

We read about the Son not knowing.The translators had capitalized this word son.This word was not on capital in the original.That is why I believe we looked at this as Jesus.But it says only the father knows the time.Is not Jesus and the Father one?
So when we read this is must be satan,He is refered to as the son of predition.So he could be called son.I believe this is how we are to look at this.I,Myself always had problems with this verse.I always wondered how this could be.The father knowing but not the son.But I believed it was refered to as Jesus.
But the biblical rule is to compare scripture with scripture and we find that satan is refered to as son
Mark 13:32
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father

This verse makes a lot more sense now.
Dave

• Dave

Eric,
Thank you for responding.I can tell you are very carefull with the word of God.I believe you care what the word of God says,not what man says.That is rare these days.
I also see in Heb.that any time after Christ arose these are refered to as the last days.

We read about the Son not knowing.The translators had capitalized this word son.This word was not on capital in the original.That is why I believe we looked at this as Jesus.But it says only the father knows the time.Is not Jesus and the Father one?
So when we read this is must be satan,He is refered to as the son of predition.So he could be called son.I believe this is how we are to look at this.I,Myself always had problems with this verse.I always wondered how this could be.The father knowing but not the son.But I believed it was refered to as Jesus.
But the biblical rule is to compare scripture with scripture and we find that satan is refered to as son
Mark 13:32
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father

This verse makes a lot more sense now.
Dave

• This conversation reminds me of a great quote I heard years ago: “Any text out of context is a proof-text for a pretext.”

Daylight (@58): Paul did not commend the Bereans for searching the scriptures to discern the time of Jesus’s return. It was enough for them (and for us) to believe based on the scriptures that Jesus is the Christ. Using the scriptures to “get behind the veil,” so to speak, will never work out. Jesus himself has said that his followers will not know when he will come.

Yes, “let us reason together.” God’s Word tells us that he has made us right with him again by covering over our sins and purifying us from all unrighteousness through his Son. This plan can be seen in action from Genesis 3 to the very end of scripture. Isaiah there is drawing upon language from Psalm 51, assuring the people that God has not forgotten them and will make things right again, a message I preach today. Isaiah is not giving us license to dissect his Word for hidden meanings.

Dave (@59): Again, in Mark 13:32, the wording is nearly identical. So we know they are referring to the same thing. But throughout Matthew, Satan is never called “the son of God” nor even “the son.” Simply going by Matthew’s precedent, both before and after chapter 24 (even in the verse immediately following the one here in question), there is no way to defend the assertion that “the son” here refers to anything other than Jesus.

Also defending this interpretation is the phrase “only the Father.” Unless you are saying that the Son is the exact same thing as the Father, which goes against 2000 years of Christian faith and 1700 years of explicit Trinitarian doctrine, then you are contradicting the word “only.”

And again, remember Hebrews 1 cites Psalm 8 saying that for a while Jesus was made a little lower than the angels. So if even the angels don’t know, then for sure Jesus wouldn’t know either. And if even Jesus didn’t know, neither will we.

Finally, I don’t know how familiar you are with textual transmission of the New Testament, but in the earliest manuscripts, every letter is uppercase, not just the first letter of important words. Centuries later, every letter in the text was lowercase, even the first letter of important words. Not until much later editions was there a mix between the two. So yes, it is an editorial decision, but it’s not as big a deal as you’re making it out to be.

Peace,

Eric

• This conversation reminds me of a great quote I heard years ago: “Any text out of context is a proof-text for a pretext.”

Daylight (@58): Paul did not commend the Bereans for searching the scriptures to discern the time of Jesus’s return. It was enough for them (and for us) to believe based on the scriptures that Jesus is the Christ. Using the scriptures to “get behind the veil,” so to speak, will never work out. Jesus himself has said that his followers will not know when he will come.

Yes, “let us reason together.” God’s Word tells us that he has made us right with him again by covering over our sins and purifying us from all unrighteousness through his Son. This plan can be seen in action from Genesis 3 to the very end of scripture. Isaiah there is drawing upon language from Psalm 51, assuring the people that God has not forgotten them and will make things right again, a message I preach today. Isaiah is not giving us license to dissect his Word for hidden meanings.

Dave (@59): Again, in Mark 13:32, the wording is nearly identical. So we know they are referring to the same thing. But throughout Matthew, Satan is never called “the son of God” nor even “the son.” Simply going by Matthew’s precedent, both before and after chapter 24 (even in the verse immediately following the one here in question), there is no way to defend the assertion that “the son” here refers to anything other than Jesus.

Also defending this interpretation is the phrase “only the Father.” Unless you are saying that the Son is the exact same thing as the Father, which goes against 2000 years of Christian faith and 1700 years of explicit Trinitarian doctrine, then you are contradicting the word “only.”

And again, remember Hebrews 1 cites Psalm 8 saying that for a while Jesus was made a little lower than the angels. So if even the angels don’t know, then for sure Jesus wouldn’t know either. And if even Jesus didn’t know, neither will we.

Finally, I don’t know how familiar you are with textual transmission of the New Testament, but in the earliest manuscripts, every letter is uppercase, not just the first letter of important words. Centuries later, every letter in the text was lowercase, even the first letter of important words. Not until much later editions was there a mix between the two. So yes, it is an editorial decision, but it’s not as big a deal as you’re making it out to be.

Peace,

Eric

• Dave

Eric,
Thank you for responding.Mark 13:never says the son of God it says the son.If it did say the Son of God then yes this would be refering to Jesus.Look at this again.

Mark13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

The Son of God and the father are the same so how could Jesus not know the time of the end if the father does?

I believe 1Thes answers this2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Satan is refered to as the son of perdition.
The bible says that satan knows his time is short but never mentiones he knows the time.
Dave

• Dave

Eric,
Thank you for responding.Mark 13:never says the son of God it says the son.If it did say the Son of God then yes this would be refering to Jesus.Look at this again.

Mark13:32But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

The Son of God and the father are the same so how could Jesus not know the time of the end if the father does?

I believe 1Thes answers this2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Satan is refered to as the son of perdition.
The bible says that satan knows his time is short but never mentiones he knows the time.
Dave

• Dave,

We were talking about Matthew 24, not Mark 13, but either way, the phrase “son of perdition” is a carryover from Hebrew idiom meaning “one who is given over to destruction.” But in order for it to mean “son of perdition,” the whole phrase would have to be there; simply saying “son” doesn’t carry that meaning. Nobody looking at Matthew 24:36 would ever make that connection because nobody writing “son” would ever intend it to mean “son of perdition.” Plain and simple. And you still never addressed the rest of my comment.

No doubt, people will fall away, and when they do fall away, it is always a sobering reminder that when Christ returns, they will all be given over to destruction. But we will never know when Christ will return until he actually returns.

Peace,

Eric

• Dave,

We were talking about Matthew 24, not Mark 13, but either way, the phrase “son of perdition” is a carryover from Hebrew idiom meaning “one who is given over to destruction.” But in order for it to mean “son of perdition,” the whole phrase would have to be there; simply saying “son” doesn’t carry that meaning. Nobody looking at Matthew 24:36 would ever make that connection because nobody writing “son” would ever intend it to mean “son of perdition.” Plain and simple. And you still never addressed the rest of my comment.

No doubt, people will fall away, and when they do fall away, it is always a sobering reminder that when Christ returns, they will all be given over to destruction. But we will never know when Christ will return until he actually returns.

Peace,

Eric

• daylight

To Eric;

God’s Holy Bible spoke (e.g. 11013 B.C. — 2011 A.D.), and you disagree with Holy God’s speaking, His proclamation.

“And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers, saying,
Go unto this people, and say,
Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand;
and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
for the heart of this people is waxed gross,
and their ears are dull of hearing,
and their eyes have they closed;
lest they should see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their heart,
and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.” Acts 28:25-19

• daylight

To Eric;

God’s Holy Bible spoke (e.g. 11013 B.C. — 2011 A.D.), and you disagree with Holy God’s speaking, His proclamation.

“And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers, saying,
Go unto this people, and say,
Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand;
and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
for the heart of this people is waxed gross,
and their ears are dull of hearing,
and their eyes have they closed;
lest they should see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their heart,
and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.” Acts 28:25-19

• daylight

To Eric;

Reference typo correction: Acts 28:25-29

• daylight

To Eric;

Reference typo correction: Acts 28:25-29

• Daylight: tODD and I have presented careful exegesis and clear and faithful Gospel proclamation. You have pretty much held the line and distorted God’s clear Word. Your use of Acts 28 to try to condemn me simply exemplifies the statement I made earlier: “Any text out of context is a proof text for a pretext.”

On May 20, 2011, I will plant a tree. And when this guy is proven wrong, and I celebrate my 32nd birthday on May 31, 2011, I’ll be asking my friends and family for a bunch of rocks so that God’s word in Deuteronomy 18:20-22 may be held true. (not really)

Of course, by then, he will probably have backpedaled away from this prediction and given himself an escape hatch in case things don’t happen the way he thinks they will.

Shalom,

Eric

• Daylight: tODD and I have presented careful exegesis and clear and faithful Gospel proclamation. You have pretty much held the line and distorted God’s clear Word. Your use of Acts 28 to try to condemn me simply exemplifies the statement I made earlier: “Any text out of context is a proof text for a pretext.”

On May 20, 2011, I will plant a tree. And when this guy is proven wrong, and I celebrate my 32nd birthday on May 31, 2011, I’ll be asking my friends and family for a bunch of rocks so that God’s word in Deuteronomy 18:20-22 may be held true. (not really)

Of course, by then, he will probably have backpedaled away from this prediction and given himself an escape hatch in case things don’t happen the way he thinks they will.

Shalom,

Eric

• daylight

To Eric;

If you had correct understanding of God’s word, you would have known I cannot condemn anyone. Only God’s word (Christ) condemns just as only God’s word (Christ) can save.

You have established your disbelief from the outset as your “exegesis” may have comforted you, and as you have confirmed in your latest post. So, plant your trees and joke about killing people as you desire. Why tell me about you plans? (rhetorical)

We have nothing else to discuss or share.

Regards,
daylight

• daylight

To Eric;

If you had correct understanding of God’s word, you would have known I cannot condemn anyone. Only God’s word (Christ) condemns just as only God’s word (Christ) can save.

You have established your disbelief from the outset as your “exegesis” may have comforted you, and as you have confirmed in your latest post. So, plant your trees and joke about killing people as you desire. Why tell me about you plans? (rhetorical)

We have nothing else to discuss or share.

Regards,
daylight

• Daylight: Well, if that’s the case, then I’ll see you around the blog.

Dave: Don’t let this discourage you. I’ve enjoyed our interaction so far and would hate for this to deter you from responding.

Shalom,

Eric

• Daylight: Well, if that’s the case, then I’ll see you around the blog.

Dave: Don’t let this discourage you. I’ve enjoyed our interaction so far and would hate for this to deter you from responding.

Shalom,

Eric

• daylight

To Eric;

Around the blog? More like through the blog. No one can know (“see”) God’s proclamation by any church’s or any personal “exegesis.”

Nothing left to discuss…

• daylight

To Eric;

Around the blog? More like through the blog. No one can know (“see”) God’s proclamation by any church’s or any personal “exegesis.”

Nothing left to discuss…

• Dave

Eric,
The bible also says,And if that evil servant says my Lord delayeth his coming, He will come in a day he least expects.
he will be eating and drinking with the drunkards,and shall smite his fellow servent

Eating and drinking has to do with the gospel.We eat and drink on Gods word.He is the bread of life,He is the living water.
Drunkards would be false gospels.
Smite would be mocking.
When you say there is no way the Lord will come May 21 2011.You are saying my Lord delayeth His coming.

Instead of planting a tree.Call out to the tree of Life that He may have mercy on you.
Dave

• Dave

Eric,
The bible also says,And if that evil servant says my Lord delayeth his coming, He will come in a day he least expects.
he will be eating and drinking with the drunkards,and shall smite his fellow servent

Eating and drinking has to do with the gospel.We eat and drink on Gods word.He is the bread of life,He is the living water.
Drunkards would be false gospels.
Smite would be mocking.
When you say there is no way the Lord will come May 21 2011.You are saying my Lord delayeth His coming.

Instead of planting a tree.Call out to the tree of Life that He may have mercy on you.
Dave

• Dave, Lenny, Daylight, et al:

I’ll leave the questions of Bible interpretation to others at this point. I’d just like to offer an opportunity to you — call it a challenge, if you like that term better — and to all who similarly believe Harold Camping’s predictions about May 21, 2011. Since you are apparently quite confident in his interpretations and predictions, you shouldn’t find this offensive or unsettling in any way — just a curious exercise, or a chance to live the courage of your convictions.

Anyway, Eric has said he will plant a tree if he is right about this and Camping is wrong — what will you do? (Obviously if you and Camping are correct there will be nothing for you to do on May 22, 2011.)

So, here’s my opportunity/challenge:
Write down on a sheet of paper (if you do it on your computer, print it out) the following, then date and sign it —
1) This is what I have been told and believe will happen on May 21, 2011:_______________
2) If these things do not happen as predicted, logically and spiritually I must honestly conclude ____________
and
3) If these things do not happen as predicted, on May 22, 2011* I will commit myself to the following changes in my spiritual life and faith, especially as regards Bible study and interpretation, church attendance, the leaders I follow and the teachers I listen to: _____________________

When finished, seal it in an envelope and give it to a trusted friend or relative or someone with the instruction to give it to you on May 22, 2011 (if there’s no one you expect to be around to do that, put it on your refrigerator or a bulletin board where it can’t be forgotten). There’s nothing to lose, and it doesn’t constitute a lack of faith — you can consider it a statement of faith, in fact, because you don’t believe you’ll ever need to see or read it again.

What do you think?

*you can change the date to June 1 or something if there’s “wiggle room” in Camping’s chronology

• Dave, Lenny, Daylight, et al:

I’ll leave the questions of Bible interpretation to others at this point. I’d just like to offer an opportunity to you — call it a challenge, if you like that term better — and to all who similarly believe Harold Camping’s predictions about May 21, 2011. Since you are apparently quite confident in his interpretations and predictions, you shouldn’t find this offensive or unsettling in any way — just a curious exercise, or a chance to live the courage of your convictions.

Anyway, Eric has said he will plant a tree if he is right about this and Camping is wrong — what will you do? (Obviously if you and Camping are correct there will be nothing for you to do on May 22, 2011.)

So, here’s my opportunity/challenge:
Write down on a sheet of paper (if you do it on your computer, print it out) the following, then date and sign it —
1) This is what I have been told and believe will happen on May 21, 2011:_______________
2) If these things do not happen as predicted, logically and spiritually I must honestly conclude ____________
and
3) If these things do not happen as predicted, on May 22, 2011* I will commit myself to the following changes in my spiritual life and faith, especially as regards Bible study and interpretation, church attendance, the leaders I follow and the teachers I listen to: _____________________

When finished, seal it in an envelope and give it to a trusted friend or relative or someone with the instruction to give it to you on May 22, 2011 (if there’s no one you expect to be around to do that, put it on your refrigerator or a bulletin board where it can’t be forgotten). There’s nothing to lose, and it doesn’t constitute a lack of faith — you can consider it a statement of faith, in fact, because you don’t believe you’ll ever need to see or read it again.

What do you think?

*you can change the date to June 1 or something if there’s “wiggle room” in Camping’s chronology

• Dave

Jeff,
Thank you for the suggestion.
But here is my question to you.When there will be 153 days on this earth as a living hell?Oct. 21 2011 will be the final day.The elements will melt with ferverant heat.What will one do during this time on earth.

Jeff,This is not a happy time for me.This is very sad and depressing.You see,most of my family and friends have no interest in the gospel.
Dave

• Dave

Jeff,
Thank you for the suggestion.
But here is my question to you.When there will be 153 days on this earth as a living hell?Oct. 21 2011 will be the final day.The elements will melt with ferverant heat.What will one do during this time on earth.

Jeff,This is not a happy time for me.This is very sad and depressing.You see,most of my family and friends have no interest in the gospel.
Dave

• Jim

Matt 24:36 does not contain the word son(huios). However, Mark 13:32 does(which is the same word found in 2 Thes 2:3). It is certainly clear in either case, “son” cannot be referring to Christ.

When interpreting God’s Word, it is our duty(commanded by God) to use ALL scripture in which to base our conclusions.

The alternative has resulted in:
We must wait for the antichrist(a man) to come with a mark of 666 somewhere on his body. Furthermore, if someone were to tie us to a post and permanently inscribe a mark of 666 on our body then we absolutely cannot become saved. We must wait for a temple to be constructed in Jerusalem and for the antichrist to take his seat…etc

• Jim

Matt 24:36 does not contain the word son(huios). However, Mark 13:32 does(which is the same word found in 2 Thes 2:3). It is certainly clear in either case, “son” cannot be referring to Christ.

When interpreting God’s Word, it is our duty(commanded by God) to use ALL scripture in which to base our conclusions.

The alternative has resulted in:
We must wait for the antichrist(a man) to come with a mark of 666 somewhere on his body. Furthermore, if someone were to tie us to a post and permanently inscribe a mark of 666 on our body then we absolutely cannot become saved. We must wait for a temple to be constructed in Jerusalem and for the antichrist to take his seat…etc

• Dave

Jim,
The number 666 is not a literal nimber.it is symbolic of all the unsaved.they carry this mark.God also says the believers carry his mark.but this is symbolic.
The temple that is in view is the spiritual temple must be built.it must be compleated.This is the temple made up of all the believers .
the believers are the buiilding blocks in the temple.
Dave

• Dave

Jim,
The number 666 is not a literal nimber.it is symbolic of all the unsaved.they carry this mark.God also says the believers carry his mark.but this is symbolic.
The temple that is in view is the spiritual temple must be built.it must be compleated.This is the temple made up of all the believers .
the believers are the buiilding blocks in the temple.
Dave

• James

Hello Brother Camping,

Our Lord sometimes uses the least likely.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. has been misunderstood. The capital S in Son has been the big deceiver
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition explains who the son is, (its not an angel in heaven). John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. gives clarity how we will all know the timing. The Father our Lord and true believers are in the Father of Mark 13:32

Pray, and God Bless

Brother James

This above letter was written several years ago, Brother Camping has now expounded on the above in his “To God be the Glory” tapes #183 and 184. They were air several weeks ago and will more than likely appear on the Family Radion Website soon.

• James

Hello Brother Camping,

Our Lord sometimes uses the least likely.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. has been misunderstood. The capital S in Son has been the big deceiver
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition explains who the son is, (its not an angel in heaven). John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. gives clarity how we will all know the timing. The Father our Lord and true believers are in the Father of Mark 13:32

Pray, and God Bless

Brother James

This above letter was written several years ago, Brother Camping has now expounded on the above in his “To God be the Glory” tapes #183 and 184. They were air several weeks ago and will more than likely appear on the Family Radion Website soon.

• James

thank you

• James

thank you

• We have published a new article on Family Radio and Mr. Harold Camping on our Website – http://www.writeonnewjersey.com. The direct link to the article is http://www.writeonnewjersey.com/2010/02/countdown-to-judgment-2/. Please “spread the word” to interested parties.

Thank you,

Tom Petruzzelli
Editor

• We have published a new article on Family Radio and Mr. Harold Camping on our Website – http://www.writeonnewjersey.com. The direct link to the article is http://www.writeonnewjersey.com/2010/02/countdown-to-judgment-2/. Please “spread the word” to interested parties.

Thank you,

Tom Petruzzelli
Editor

• triggerfish

I believe that God created us in His image; and as such knows the best manner to communicate with all of us. I read the Holy Words of God (the Bible) as they are written, as they make sense to me. I do not think the are secret codes, complex or complicated matematical formulas to decipher the meaning of the words. If coding and deciphering is true, then that leaves very few men (people) in a position of very great power and influence. Not good. I believe that power is and remains with Jesus Christ. I read the Bible as a simple man and as innocently as I can to understand the love and forgiveness Jesus Christ has granted us by His sacrifice and love. Too many greedy people are making a lot of money off of all this decoding the code of the code-code stuff. It is silly and sadly those who follow this stuff are……… well very lost. Camping is the leader and he is lost in numbers and not the love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ. Be simple, innocent as a child and mature as a Christian. May the wisdom of the Holy Spirit grant us all the clarity of the Words of God. Glory, power, magesty, worship and love be to God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit; One God now and forever.

• triggerfish

I believe that God created us in His image; and as such knows the best manner to communicate with all of us. I read the Holy Words of God (the Bible) as they are written, as they make sense to me. I do not think the are secret codes, complex or complicated matematical formulas to decipher the meaning of the words. If coding and deciphering is true, then that leaves very few men (people) in a position of very great power and influence. Not good. I believe that power is and remains with Jesus Christ. I read the Bible as a simple man and as innocently as I can to understand the love and forgiveness Jesus Christ has granted us by His sacrifice and love. Too many greedy people are making a lot of money off of all this decoding the code of the code-code stuff. It is silly and sadly those who follow this stuff are……… well very lost. Camping is the leader and he is lost in numbers and not the love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ. Be simple, innocent as a child and mature as a Christian. May the wisdom of the Holy Spirit grant us all the clarity of the Words of God. Glory, power, magesty, worship and love be to God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit; One God now and forever.

• James

Hello Triggerfish

Ephesians
10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

The battle is fierce and your teaching are mild. As Christian soldiers we should not think the task will be easy, God will guide us into His Truth.

2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version)

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

By the way Brother Camping volunteers all his time.

• James

Hello Triggerfish

Ephesians
10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

The battle is fierce and your teaching are mild. As Christian soldiers we should not think the task will be easy, God will guide us into His Truth.

2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version)

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

By the way Brother Camping volunteers all his time.

• Brian

Hi All!
I have patiently read every comment from beginning to end. And there are a couple of things that I’m being led to address.

First of all, I want to point out the obvious. The End is inevitable. Regardless of the exact moment or day, it is coming 🙂 I can understand the concern of many with the exact date being known but only to a certain extent.

For those that are so sure that May 21 2011 will be followed by an ordinary average May 22nd, I pray for you.. And for those of you thinking that May 21 2011 is it , I pray for you as well.. What if it’s tomorrow? Now there is countless pieces of scripture that would fit masterfully here, but rather than argue each others interpretation of what each verse means to them, I’m going to ask you to try something a little different.

“We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose.” Romans 8:28

The exact day is irrelevant. For those that have friends or relatives that are non believers, it is our job to plant the seed. That, and live by example. And the same would apply to all (not just friends or relatives) but to all.. No one actively seeks GOD. No not one! Until they are called by the Holy Spirit. We have a basic yet profound job in planting the seed. Knowing what to say and when to say it hmm…. That’s something we all have to work on… Not becoming a stumbling stone for our current and future Christian brothers and sisters. I would sure hate to inadvertently cause one of them to go astray..

My Bible is and has always been known as the Living Bible. Is it possible that it speaks to each one of us in it’s own way? We were all giving a measure of faith. Was it equal in everyone of us? Can it grow? Were we all gifted differently? Do you know your gifts? Are you a mathematician? A linguist? Or somewhere in the middle… I’m sorry I’m getting sidetracked…

The end is inevitable.. When it comes should be a mystery. Is numerology a way of deciphering God’s word? That’s not for you or I to definitively say. The danger lies in the one that wholeheartedly believes that he has a specific amount of time left. Or the one who hasn’t been saved thinking he has more time than he does.. As far as planting trees…. Plant it tomorrow just in case.
Humility leaves no room for arrogance..
Stay humble all!
In Grace!
Brian
P.S. There is a fantastic online verse by verse Bible study on Romans at http://www.versebyverseministry.org/resources/detail/romans/ This was an amazing study!! Most of their studies are.

• Brian

Hi All!
I have patiently read every comment from beginning to end. And there are a couple of things that I’m being led to address.

First of all, I want to point out the obvious. The End is inevitable. Regardless of the exact moment or day, it is coming 🙂 I can understand the concern of many with the exact date being known but only to a certain extent.

For those that are so sure that May 21 2011 will be followed by an ordinary average May 22nd, I pray for you.. And for those of you thinking that May 21 2011 is it , I pray for you as well.. What if it’s tomorrow? Now there is countless pieces of scripture that would fit masterfully here, but rather than argue each others interpretation of what each verse means to them, I’m going to ask you to try something a little different.

“We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose.” Romans 8:28

The exact day is irrelevant. For those that have friends or relatives that are non believers, it is our job to plant the seed. That, and live by example. And the same would apply to all (not just friends or relatives) but to all.. No one actively seeks GOD. No not one! Until they are called by the Holy Spirit. We have a basic yet profound job in planting the seed. Knowing what to say and when to say it hmm…. That’s something we all have to work on… Not becoming a stumbling stone for our current and future Christian brothers and sisters. I would sure hate to inadvertently cause one of them to go astray..

My Bible is and has always been known as the Living Bible. Is it possible that it speaks to each one of us in it’s own way? We were all giving a measure of faith. Was it equal in everyone of us? Can it grow? Were we all gifted differently? Do you know your gifts? Are you a mathematician? A linguist? Or somewhere in the middle… I’m sorry I’m getting sidetracked…

The end is inevitable.. When it comes should be a mystery. Is numerology a way of deciphering God’s word? That’s not for you or I to definitively say. The danger lies in the one that wholeheartedly believes that he has a specific amount of time left. Or the one who hasn’t been saved thinking he has more time than he does.. As far as planting trees…. Plant it tomorrow just in case.
Humility leaves no room for arrogance..
Stay humble all!
In Grace!
Brian
P.S. There is a fantastic online verse by verse Bible study on Romans at http://www.versebyverseministry.org/resources/detail/romans/ This was an amazing study!! Most of their studies are.

• James

Ahh, a voice of calm.

If you do not know when the Wedding Feast is, than have on a Wedding Garment and be ready at all times.

We believe God created the world in six days, we also know and believe in the Bible version of Noahs’ flood. Yet, we have difficulty believing God put a calendar in the Bible.

Romans 10:17 (King James Version)

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I believe the Wedding Feast is important and marking your calendar would be Wise.

Don’t be out buying a cow, when the Lord returns.

• James

Ahh, a voice of calm.

If you do not know when the Wedding Feast is, than have on a Wedding Garment and be ready at all times.

We believe God created the world in six days, we also know and believe in the Bible version of Noahs’ flood. Yet, we have difficulty believing God put a calendar in the Bible.

Romans 10:17 (King James Version)

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I believe the Wedding Feast is important and marking your calendar would be Wise.

Don’t be out buying a cow, when the Lord returns.

• BOBBY ST.

From my point Mr Camping is most humble old servant of ALMIGHTY HOLY GOD,Holy Bible is Gods Holy Word to mankind in past ages.I know as born again christian that?5/21/2011 was very very carefully found from the Bible. But if this day is not going to be day of rapture of Gods children and end of the world-this does,not mean that Mr Camping was wrong,does,not mean that people as Mr Camping is false prophet,each of human being have genetical imperfection and sin for 13ooo years.,one posibility only can exist,that maybe in imperfect minds of biblical researches caould happen some miscalculation
Children of God are saved everyday,every second of this childrens life belong to the HEAVENLY FATHER,and so long how long Christ. Galatans 2:20 live in us!?we are in Him,so long how long we are on this earth in human sinfull body we are HIS CHILDREN Romans 8:12-17.also Mr Camping belongs to Him to Almighty God before 5/11/2011 and after-regardless what happen on this earth today tommorow or last day of 5/21/2011.
I as a child of Holy God I do love Mr Camping teachings,Family Radio.His teaching and Family Radio is blessed by God for those who belong to HIM to Holy God as HIS children,and if this 5/21/2011 is already aproved by Our Father-that nobody nobody will stop Our Lord and Father from this day and day of salvation to HIS children
I was past 30 years Jehowa Witness.because of teaching contradictions WSJW and false NWT Bible from original translations from Hebrew and Greek languages I am not anymore memeber of Jehowa Witnesses autocratic organisation, my heavenly hope given by mercy and underserved kindness from my Father,I do,nt agree any more with teachings of JW,
After mayn years and past 10 years my stay in Germany I could,not find nowhere similar understanding like Mr Camping,but something push me out last year 2009 from Germany back to USA,and somehow someday last 2009 early spring time I heard by radio Mr Camping open Forum?all what Mr Camping said was right,100% right???Mr Camping have same understanding of Holy Word of God like I do?! and 99,99 % I do believe that 5/21/2011 is end?!finish of salvation on this earth?If finish of salvation on this earth will happen 5/21/2011,than this earth in visible Universe have no place exist anymore? because of children of GOD this earth stil exist,wenn last saved person is away from this earth? that whole earth with our Universe will in 1 second burn up?!! 2 PETER 3:7,10 how sad!very very sad!!!
I also encourage those who read this e-mail,just listen Family Radio and besech our lovely and merciful Father for mercy and salvation Ps 51:17

• BOBBY ST.

From my point Mr Camping is most humble old servant of ALMIGHTY HOLY GOD,Holy Bible is Gods Holy Word to mankind in past ages.I know as born again christian that?5/21/2011 was very very carefully found from the Bible. But if this day is not going to be day of rapture of Gods children and end of the world-this does,not mean that Mr Camping was wrong,does,not mean that people as Mr Camping is false prophet,each of human being have genetical imperfection and sin for 13ooo years.,one posibility only can exist,that maybe in imperfect minds of biblical researches caould happen some miscalculation
Children of God are saved everyday,every second of this childrens life belong to the HEAVENLY FATHER,and so long how long Christ. Galatans 2:20 live in us!?we are in Him,so long how long we are on this earth in human sinfull body we are HIS CHILDREN Romans 8:12-17.also Mr Camping belongs to Him to Almighty God before 5/11/2011 and after-regardless what happen on this earth today tommorow or last day of 5/21/2011.
I as a child of Holy God I do love Mr Camping teachings,Family Radio.His teaching and Family Radio is blessed by God for those who belong to HIM to Holy God as HIS children,and if this 5/21/2011 is already aproved by Our Father-that nobody nobody will stop Our Lord and Father from this day and day of salvation to HIS children
I was past 30 years Jehowa Witness.because of teaching contradictions WSJW and false NWT Bible from original translations from Hebrew and Greek languages I am not anymore memeber of Jehowa Witnesses autocratic organisation, my heavenly hope given by mercy and underserved kindness from my Father,I do,nt agree any more with teachings of JW,
After mayn years and past 10 years my stay in Germany I could,not find nowhere similar understanding like Mr Camping,but something push me out last year 2009 from Germany back to USA,and somehow someday last 2009 early spring time I heard by radio Mr Camping open Forum?all what Mr Camping said was right,100% right???Mr Camping have same understanding of Holy Word of God like I do?! and 99,99 % I do believe that 5/21/2011 is end?!finish of salvation on this earth?If finish of salvation on this earth will happen 5/21/2011,than this earth in visible Universe have no place exist anymore? because of children of GOD this earth stil exist,wenn last saved person is away from this earth? that whole earth with our Universe will in 1 second burn up?!! 2 PETER 3:7,10 how sad!very very sad!!!
I also encourage those who read this e-mail,just listen Family Radio and besech our lovely and merciful Father for mercy and salvation Ps 51:17

• Lots of good stuff on Family Radio (Bible reading, hymns, etc.)

Also, legalistic preaching and teaching and wacky prognosticating.

I still listen, though. I take the good and throw out the bad.

• Lots of good stuff on Family Radio (Bible reading, hymns, etc.)

Also, legalistic preaching and teaching and wacky prognosticating.

I still listen, though. I take the good and throw out the bad.

• Richard

I have studied Harold’s books for around 20 years now. I don’t worship Harold but I am just a seeker of the truth and so I study material from many people and compare it with the Bible. While I don’t agree with every single thing Harold says I do see enough there to feel he is on to something and he presents very good data most of the time. By the way, I read and studied His 1994 book (20 years ago) and the Biblical material he shows in his 1994 book pointed to 2 dates: 1994 and 2011! People that didn’t read the book don’t know that! I think that is an important point! At that time he thought 1994 was the more likely date (if you did read the book – you’ll know why). After 1994 went by it took him a few years of study (along with others) to figure out what they missed. They found that 1994 was not the date of Christ’s return but it had another Biblical meaning. That left the 2011 date as the possible final date. It took him another 10 years of study to come up with many more Biblical proofs before he became certain that 2011 was the correct date for Christ’s return. I have studied end time data from 5 others also and their material is a joke compared to the amount of Biblical data in Harold’s material and the way he backs it up with the Bible. I am currently studying the May 21, 2011 data to see if I agree. I can already see some things Biblically are fitting perfectly with that date. I still have much work to do and it is very time consuming to do the research and put the pieces together so I don’t make a final decision till I’m done. Most people comment on what Harold says without having an open mind and studying carefully his material. I think this is sad. He provides a lot of Biblical data to back up his conclusion. If you read all his material and study it carefully and disagree then fine but don’t have a closed mind and say a person is wrong without studying all their data. I try to have an open mind till I can prove Biblically for myself if I see the data is true or not. Daniel and Revelation is very very difficult material and it takes much time to put the pieces together. Using the rest of the Bible helps to decode some of it. Most people don’t take the time. That’s why when someone like Harold has done a lot of research I’m willing to carefully look at all his data before I make a judgement. When it comes to understanding difficult passages in God’s Word I will analyze any good material from anyone and see if it Biblically holds up. That is what I feel everyone should do before passing judgement. However most people don’t want to go that deep or don’t have the patience. Everyone has a different personality. I just want to know Truth so I am patient and pray and study.

• Richard

I have studied Harold’s books for around 20 years now. I don’t worship Harold but I am just a seeker of the truth and so I study material from many people and compare it with the Bible. While I don’t agree with every single thing Harold says I do see enough there to feel he is on to something and he presents very good data most of the time. By the way, I read and studied His 1994 book (20 years ago) and the Biblical material he shows in his 1994 book pointed to 2 dates: 1994 and 2011! People that didn’t read the book don’t know that! I think that is an important point! At that time he thought 1994 was the more likely date (if you did read the book – you’ll know why). After 1994 went by it took him a few years of study (along with others) to figure out what they missed. They found that 1994 was not the date of Christ’s return but it had another Biblical meaning. That left the 2011 date as the possible final date. It took him another 10 years of study to come up with many more Biblical proofs before he became certain that 2011 was the correct date for Christ’s return. I have studied end time data from 5 others also and their material is a joke compared to the amount of Biblical data in Harold’s material and the way he backs it up with the Bible. I am currently studying the May 21, 2011 data to see if I agree. I can already see some things Biblically are fitting perfectly with that date. I still have much work to do and it is very time consuming to do the research and put the pieces together so I don’t make a final decision till I’m done. Most people comment on what Harold says without having an open mind and studying carefully his material. I think this is sad. He provides a lot of Biblical data to back up his conclusion. If you read all his material and study it carefully and disagree then fine but don’t have a closed mind and say a person is wrong without studying all their data. I try to have an open mind till I can prove Biblically for myself if I see the data is true or not. Daniel and Revelation is very very difficult material and it takes much time to put the pieces together. Using the rest of the Bible helps to decode some of it. Most people don’t take the time. That’s why when someone like Harold has done a lot of research I’m willing to carefully look at all his data before I make a judgement. When it comes to understanding difficult passages in God’s Word I will analyze any good material from anyone and see if it Biblically holds up. That is what I feel everyone should do before passing judgement. However most people don’t want to go that deep or don’t have the patience. Everyone has a different personality. I just want to know Truth so I am patient and pray and study.

• brotherp

I was studying Bishop Ussher’s calculations when I ran into the timeline by Mr. Camping. Ussher made a nobel attempt but HC really hit on it and there are so many mathematical patterns that stick out that wouldn’t be if even one day off and would throw the entire timeline off. Worth taking a look for any serious Bible student. Has anyone looked at the 1/3 – 2/3 pattern or the other ones? Can’t say I’m interested in the person, just the information at this point and it seems to be a good thing to be reading the Bible now more than ever.

• brotherp

I was studying Bishop Ussher’s calculations when I ran into the timeline by Mr. Camping. Ussher made a nobel attempt but HC really hit on it and there are so many mathematical patterns that stick out that wouldn’t be if even one day off and would throw the entire timeline off. Worth taking a look for any serious Bible student. Has anyone looked at the 1/3 – 2/3 pattern or the other ones? Can’t say I’m interested in the person, just the information at this point and it seems to be a good thing to be reading the Bible now more than ever.

• Please check out my website:

http://www.areyouwatchingorsleeping.com

Vince Des Roches

• Please check out my website:

http://www.areyouwatchingorsleeping.com

Vince Des Roches

• Richard

I’ve been hearing Harold say many things lately that give me a very bad feeling in my Spirit. I have read his books for the past 20 years. I’ve learned some things from his books and teaching that were helpful to me but lately some of the things he says sound more like a cult than truth. It just goes to show you that men are fallible, only God is perfect. Here is what Harold is saying lately. One man called in and said to Harold ‘My wife said she would pray for me at church. You say that Satan is running the church now and God is not there. Does that mean she is praying to Satan if she prays for me at church?” Harolds reply was “Yes, she is praying to Satan, God is no longer in the church”. Another man called in and asked “My preacher seems like a good man and he holds a worship service every Sunday, do you think he is saved?” Harolds reply was “I’m sorry to say that most preachers are not saved and they will face judgement because God said to leave the church and they are not obeying God.” The man replied to Harold, “What about all the other people still going to church?” Harold said ” They will not be raptured but will face judgement when Jesus returns. They are disobeying God by still going to church and they are worshiping Satan.” …….. I believe that Harold has overstepped his bounds and this type of teaching is not truth and I find it very sad and disturbing. Should this have any affect on whether his May 21, 2011 teaching is false??? or should a person keep the 2 things separate and evaluate each on its own merits???? I find it very bothersome that Harold thinks the Bible absolutely says to leave the church. I would think if that was Gods will then He would make it very clear not say something like “flee to the mountains” and every believer is suppose to know that God is commanding us to leave the church.

• Richard

I’ve been hearing Harold say many things lately that give me a very bad feeling in my Spirit. I have read his books for the past 20 years. I’ve learned some things from his books and teaching that were helpful to me but lately some of the things he says sound more like a cult than truth. It just goes to show you that men are fallible, only God is perfect. Here is what Harold is saying lately. One man called in and said to Harold ‘My wife said she would pray for me at church. You say that Satan is running the church now and God is not there. Does that mean she is praying to Satan if she prays for me at church?” Harolds reply was “Yes, she is praying to Satan, God is no longer in the church”. Another man called in and asked “My preacher seems like a good man and he holds a worship service every Sunday, do you think he is saved?” Harolds reply was “I’m sorry to say that most preachers are not saved and they will face judgement because God said to leave the church and they are not obeying God.” The man replied to Harold, “What about all the other people still going to church?” Harold said ” They will not be raptured but will face judgement when Jesus returns. They are disobeying God by still going to church and they are worshiping Satan.” …….. I believe that Harold has overstepped his bounds and this type of teaching is not truth and I find it very sad and disturbing. Should this have any affect on whether his May 21, 2011 teaching is false??? or should a person keep the 2 things separate and evaluate each on its own merits???? I find it very bothersome that Harold thinks the Bible absolutely says to leave the church. I would think if that was Gods will then He would make it very clear not say something like “flee to the mountains” and every believer is suppose to know that God is commanding us to leave the church.

• bobby stecko

whorever what Camping is saying,he only is a man imperfect and sometimes agressive,whorever who call him satan or cult opr anything.God died for his seved children anoinnted ones and any statements of man or churches is not going to stop save His children,God only search hearts of man and women not churches of family radio,but family radio is one possible independent chanel teaching only Bible,man teachers and man mistakes do,nt brake day of judgement from God,and prdiction is not able to say for sure because error of man imperfection is able create false statements,again if Camping is wrong? what a deal is this for elected children of God,they are already apoinnted and serve god,only self proud and false christians force gates of heaven to be big shots,but if Camping have key to open door to heaven at 5/21/2011 again does,nt mean that Father last decision is Camping and his key to the heavenly door,waiting for this day to be rapture maybe is possible trap for self righteous and naive without new heart, God only will take 100% BROKEN HEART AND HUMBLE,and pray in the church,or by good priest will not lead somebody to salvation only sheeded blood of christ and new heart PSALM 51;1-7.eZEK 36;23-27
BUT man negative coments spread doubts,apostazy,lack of christian maturity,if you doubt or you are not sure or sure of 5/21/2011 ONLY YOUR CHANCE TO BE IN HEAVEN IS NOT CAMPING TALK AND CAMPING DECISION,DECISION BELONGS TO ALMIGHTY GOD
all of you posting negative posts are just simple not mature reality of Gods rulership of all Universes infinity and visible. all of you just eat american bread and want to be in heaven big prinzes and kings not knowing basic existency of infinite universe and laws of Almighty Forces leading this Universe

• bobby stecko

whorever what Camping is saying,he only is a man imperfect and sometimes agressive,whorever who call him satan or cult opr anything.God died for his seved children anoinnted ones and any statements of man or churches is not going to stop save His children,God only search hearts of man and women not churches of family radio,but family radio is one possible independent chanel teaching only Bible,man teachers and man mistakes do,nt brake day of judgement from God,and prdiction is not able to say for sure because error of man imperfection is able create false statements,again if Camping is wrong? what a deal is this for elected children of God,they are already apoinnted and serve god,only self proud and false christians force gates of heaven to be big shots,but if Camping have key to open door to heaven at 5/21/2011 again does,nt mean that Father last decision is Camping and his key to the heavenly door,waiting for this day to be rapture maybe is possible trap for self righteous and naive without new heart, God only will take 100% BROKEN HEART AND HUMBLE,and pray in the church,or by good priest will not lead somebody to salvation only sheeded blood of christ and new heart PSALM 51;1-7.eZEK 36;23-27
BUT man negative coments spread doubts,apostazy,lack of christian maturity,if you doubt or you are not sure or sure of 5/21/2011 ONLY YOUR CHANCE TO BE IN HEAVEN IS NOT CAMPING TALK AND CAMPING DECISION,DECISION BELONGS TO ALMIGHTY GOD
all of you posting negative posts are just simple not mature reality of Gods rulership of all Universes infinity and visible. all of you just eat american bread and want to be in heaven big prinzes and kings not knowing basic existency of infinite universe and laws of Almighty Forces leading this Universe

• bobby stecko

jsut do,nt critic Camping statements only is left about 8 months to 5/21/2011 and you have enoough of time to search if this is biblical truth,but criticizing Camping talks is only waisting own time,posible time of really truth or rapture,if all of you live in real world created by god for us,why do,nt you enjoy christian life day by day with Christ love,only without of end spit on somebody comments posible perfect or mistaken,why? you do,nt want to enjoy place already blessed by God given to all of you? but no!!!heaven heaven heaven and never enough,in the heaven are going to be GODS ELECTED CHILDREN ANOINNTED PEOPLE OF THIS EARTH NOT WHOLE MANKIND,NOT SCOOFERS,NOT MOCKERS,NOT THIEFS,MAFAIS,BAD POLITICIANS,HATERS,SUPREMACISTS,ADULTERS,FORNICATORS,,,,,,,,,,END…………………………………..

• bobby stecko

jsut do,nt critic Camping statements only is left about 8 months to 5/21/2011 and you have enoough of time to search if this is biblical truth,but criticizing Camping talks is only waisting own time,posible time of really truth or rapture,if all of you live in real world created by god for us,why do,nt you enjoy christian life day by day with Christ love,only without of end spit on somebody comments posible perfect or mistaken,why? you do,nt want to enjoy place already blessed by God given to all of you? but no!!!heaven heaven heaven and never enough,in the heaven are going to be GODS ELECTED CHILDREN ANOINNTED PEOPLE OF THIS EARTH NOT WHOLE MANKIND,NOT SCOOFERS,NOT MOCKERS,NOT THIEFS,MAFAIS,BAD POLITICIANS,HATERS,SUPREMACISTS,ADULTERS,FORNICATORS,,,,,,,,,,END…………………………………..

• james

Hello Richard,

Mr. Camping has for a long time Taught what he believed the Bible was teaching. 25 years ago you may remember how he taught against women teaching in the church, or on divorce and marriage.
50 years ago the churches would have agreed with those teachings on women and also on divorce, and now they don’t.

Well now it is the End of the World, and few will enter into Glory. With God revealing the End of the World Gospel, he believes he is on solid ground (The Rock).

In the past when someone died, and they were unsaved, they just died. But, come May 21, 2011 if you were unsaved, the Bible says you will be beaten with many stripes, this is a difficult time.

Ezekiel 3 and 33, instructs a believer to warn of the End of the World. Now Mr. Camping gets asked many specific questions, and his answers are not necessarilly the Gospel, but he teaches what he believes is Truth, and many (i for one)concur with his teachings.

We all need to have God’s Faith, a gift from God, than we will know, if we are not sure, than this verse comes to mind, it was about a father who had a son who was possessed with a spirit:

Mark 9:

23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

This is the final tribulation and it is and will be stressful.

But he who endures until the end shall be saved.

Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Peace,

james

• james

Hello Richard,

Mr. Camping has for a long time Taught what he believed the Bible was teaching. 25 years ago you may remember how he taught against women teaching in the church, or on divorce and marriage.
50 years ago the churches would have agreed with those teachings on women and also on divorce, and now they don’t.

Well now it is the End of the World, and few will enter into Glory. With God revealing the End of the World Gospel, he believes he is on solid ground (The Rock).

In the past when someone died, and they were unsaved, they just died. But, come May 21, 2011 if you were unsaved, the Bible says you will be beaten with many stripes, this is a difficult time.

Ezekiel 3 and 33, instructs a believer to warn of the End of the World. Now Mr. Camping gets asked many specific questions, and his answers are not necessarilly the Gospel, but he teaches what he believes is Truth, and many (i for one)concur with his teachings.

We all need to have God’s Faith, a gift from God, than we will know, if we are not sure, than this verse comes to mind, it was about a father who had a son who was possessed with a spirit:

Mark 9:

23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

This is the final tribulation and it is and will be stressful.

But he who endures until the end shall be saved.

Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Peace,

james

• Richard

Harold Camping was wrong when he said Jesus would return in September 1994. He had a lot of proofs to support his theory then. Who’s to say he’s right this time about 2011? It’s based on his interpretation of scripture which we found out was wrong last time he predicted the date of Jesus return. Also when the numbers don’t fit I see him use different calendars to fudge the numbers to fit. Shouldn’t you use just one calendar?

• Richard

Harold Camping was wrong when he said Jesus would return in September 1994. He had a lot of proofs to support his theory then. Who’s to say he’s right this time about 2011? It’s based on his interpretation of scripture which we found out was wrong last time he predicted the date of Jesus return. Also when the numbers don’t fit I see him use different calendars to fudge the numbers to fit. Shouldn’t you use just one calendar?

• bobby stecko

if some of you readed MR Camping book 1994? he put question behind 1994,and in the end of this book he wrote possible end of the world 2011.
Rochard do,nt mock Mr Camping book and his prediction,because book 1994 only pointed to imporatant date but no end of the world,in this book Mr Camping wrote 2011 time possible of end
I am german-polish but not so much stupid to scoof and mock somebody for not existing error 1994?book of Mr Camping and His biblical teachings
anyway only ellected children of God will know this time with open spiritual eyes Eccles 8;5….whose keepeth the comandment shall feel no evil thing;and WISE MAN,S HEART DISCERNETH BOTH TIME AND JUDGEMENT…………so wise know time and judgement,not wise is spiritual blind and scoof this day,but 5/21/2011 will come and left behind will be all evils not chosen mud of this infested by sin and depravation earth 153 days til 10/21/2011 last day of existency this visible earth

• bobby stecko

if some of you readed MR Camping book 1994? he put question behind 1994,and in the end of this book he wrote possible end of the world 2011.
Rochard do,nt mock Mr Camping book and his prediction,because book 1994 only pointed to imporatant date but no end of the world,in this book Mr Camping wrote 2011 time possible of end
I am german-polish but not so much stupid to scoof and mock somebody for not existing error 1994?book of Mr Camping and His biblical teachings
anyway only ellected children of God will know this time with open spiritual eyes Eccles 8;5….whose keepeth the comandment shall feel no evil thing;and WISE MAN,S HEART DISCERNETH BOTH TIME AND JUDGEMENT…………so wise know time and judgement,not wise is spiritual blind and scoof this day,but 5/21/2011 will come and left behind will be all evils not chosen mud of this infested by sin and depravation earth 153 days til 10/21/2011 last day of existency this visible earth

• james

Hello bobby stecko,

As a long term listener of Family Radio, Mr. Camping had a heart wrenching dilema back in early 1990’s.

He started gaining much end time information and was perplex weather to show his findings at that time, or wait until more research was done.

Well we know he wrote the book 1994?, and here is a snapshot of what he knew at that time.

Tribulation and the 1290 days of Daniel 12, are one key to his findings. Starting in 1877BC Jacob was to leave Canaan the Promise Land, and to go into Egypt to survive the drought (a tribulation). 1290 years later, (the days were symbolically years) in the year 587BC, Babylon ruled Jerusalem for 23 years at this time, and this was the year the Temple was destroy, (a tribulation). 2580 years later (1290 times 2) we arrive at 1994AD. The church age ended (a tribulation) May 21, 1988 and 2300 days later September 6 or 7th (I don’t recall) 1994. Now you see the year 1994, Jesus was born in 7BC, and 2000 years later is 1994 (their is no year 0). 1994 is also a jubilee year.

In all fairness to Mr. Camping, in the book 1994? the year 2011 was also stated to be a possible year of the end. The teaching was not dogmatic, however some people ran ahead of Mr. Campings teachings and I was told they suffered for it.

Peace,

james

• james

Hello bobby stecko,

As a long term listener of Family Radio, Mr. Camping had a heart wrenching dilema back in early 1990’s.

He started gaining much end time information and was perplex weather to show his findings at that time, or wait until more research was done.

Well we know he wrote the book 1994?, and here is a snapshot of what he knew at that time.

Tribulation and the 1290 days of Daniel 12, are one key to his findings. Starting in 1877BC Jacob was to leave Canaan the Promise Land, and to go into Egypt to survive the drought (a tribulation). 1290 years later, (the days were symbolically years) in the year 587BC, Babylon ruled Jerusalem for 23 years at this time, and this was the year the Temple was destroy, (a tribulation). 2580 years later (1290 times 2) we arrive at 1994AD. The church age ended (a tribulation) May 21, 1988 and 2300 days later September 6 or 7th (I don’t recall) 1994. Now you see the year 1994, Jesus was born in 7BC, and 2000 years later is 1994 (their is no year 0). 1994 is also a jubilee year.

In all fairness to Mr. Camping, in the book 1994? the year 2011 was also stated to be a possible year of the end. The teaching was not dogmatic, however some people ran ahead of Mr. Campings teachings and I was told they suffered for it.

Peace,

james

• Richard

I’ve seen data that supports Noah’s flood occurred around 5600BC. Harold Camping says it occurred in 4990BC. I remember in one of his books he had 4989BC but I always hear him say 4990BC now. What is the data or proof he uses to come up with the 4990BC date? Since he ties this date to 2011 I would like to fully understand how he derived the date. Thanks!

• Richard

I’ve seen data that supports Noah’s flood occurred around 5600BC. Harold Camping says it occurred in 4990BC. I remember in one of his books he had 4989BC but I always hear him say 4990BC now. What is the data or proof he uses to come up with the 4990BC date? Since he ties this date to 2011 I would like to fully understand how he derived the date. Thanks!

• Richard

As I think about Harold Campings prediction of May 21, 2011 being the Rapture I ask myself these questions:

If the End of the World was coming next year why wouldn’t God send a prophet to declare it? It’s obvious Harold is not a prophet because if he was then he would be a false prophet because his prediction that Jesus would return in 1994 was false. Also he has some false teachings. For example he’s now teaching that only those who have left the church will be saved and those still attending a church are not saved and will face judgment. He also is teaching if you pray in church you are praying to Satan not God because God is not in any church today. These are false teachings from Harold and not from the Bible or God. It makes me question would God use someone like this (who’s predicted falsely in the past and who’s teaching some false things) to unfold the timing of the end? It’s a tuff question to think about. You would think for an event as big as the End of the World that God would use someone above reproach.

Harold’s dates do not match with archeology and other outside sources and with most other religious sources. Therefore you’re left with either just believe what this one imperfect man (who’s been wrong before and now teaching some false things) says and ignore other data or you say there’s enough to question this one man’s interpretation of scripture so you cannot accept everything he says as truth.

It’s a lot for a person who is earnestly searching for the truth to ponder.

• Richard

As I think about Harold Campings prediction of May 21, 2011 being the Rapture I ask myself these questions:

If the End of the World was coming next year why wouldn’t God send a prophet to declare it? It’s obvious Harold is not a prophet because if he was then he would be a false prophet because his prediction that Jesus would return in 1994 was false. Also he has some false teachings. For example he’s now teaching that only those who have left the church will be saved and those still attending a church are not saved and will face judgment. He also is teaching if you pray in church you are praying to Satan not God because God is not in any church today. These are false teachings from Harold and not from the Bible or God. It makes me question would God use someone like this (who’s predicted falsely in the past and who’s teaching some false things) to unfold the timing of the end? It’s a tuff question to think about. You would think for an event as big as the End of the World that God would use someone above reproach.

Harold’s dates do not match with archeology and other outside sources and with most other religious sources. Therefore you’re left with either just believe what this one imperfect man (who’s been wrong before and now teaching some false things) says and ignore other data or you say there’s enough to question this one man’s interpretation of scripture so you cannot accept everything he says as truth.

It’s a lot for a person who is earnestly searching for the truth to ponder.

• Tom

A guest author has written three excellent articles on how the timeline of history was developed. The first two are published:

http://www.writeonnewjersey.com/2010/10/assembling-the-timeline-of-history-part-i/

http://www.writeonnewjersey.com/2010/10/assembling-the-timeline-of-history-part-ii/

The third will be published tomorrow.

• Tom

A guest author has written three excellent articles on how the timeline of history was developed. The first two are published:

http://www.writeonnewjersey.com/2010/10/assembling-the-timeline-of-history-part-i/

http://www.writeonnewjersey.com/2010/10/assembling-the-timeline-of-history-part-ii/

The third will be published tomorrow.

• james

Hello Richard,

Here is what I see. God has completed His Word and it is His Word we are to Trust. So Jesus, who is God, who is the Word, is the Prophet you are looking for.

God is seperating the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the tares, the saved from the unsaved. God is doing this by telling us when we see the abomination of desolation to flee Judea. This is spiritual language, but God is teaching those who diligently seek Him.

The answer to understanding this is Proverbs chapter 3:

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

The True Worshipper will Trust the Word of God over His own intellect. This is difficult, but if you think about it, if you have True Faith and God is your loving Father, why would you ever interfere with the perfect Word of God, with our finite minds.

Mr. Camping did not have a false teaching about 1994? see my post from October 7, 2010.

Also, I had difficullty posting on this thread, it just doesn’t post some times.

Peace,

james

• james

Hello Richard,

Here is what I see. God has completed His Word and it is His Word we are to Trust. So Jesus, who is God, who is the Word, is the Prophet you are looking for.

God is seperating the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the tares, the saved from the unsaved. God is doing this by telling us when we see the abomination of desolation to flee Judea. This is spiritual language, but God is teaching those who diligently seek Him.

The answer to understanding this is Proverbs chapter 3:

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

The True Worshipper will Trust the Word of God over His own intellect. This is difficult, but if you think about it, if you have True Faith and God is your loving Father, why would you ever interfere with the perfect Word of God, with our finite minds.

Mr. Camping did not have a false teaching about 1994? see my post from October 7, 2010.

Also, I had difficullty posting on this thread, it just doesn’t post some times.

Peace,

james

• bobby stecko

book 1994?of Mr Camping was not prediction of end of the world,behind 1994 is mark question and end of this book Mr.Camping menschen date 2011
if Mr Camping is false prophet according to this”christina false teachings”of this world? only time 5/21/2011 will proof all of those scoffers and mockers but possible for this naive people is to be left behind 5/22/2011 is going to be worse date in existency of mankind
family radio and MR Camping teachings is most truthfull Gospel matching true Gospel of CHRIST AND HIS HOLY WORD BIBLE.a lot of listeners are for sure born again children of God Ephesos 1;3-9

• bobby stecko

book 1994?of Mr Camping was not prediction of end of the world,behind 1994 is mark question and end of this book Mr.Camping menschen date 2011
if Mr Camping is false prophet according to this”christina false teachings”of this world? only time 5/21/2011 will proof all of those scoffers and mockers but possible for this naive people is to be left behind 5/22/2011 is going to be worse date in existency of mankind
family radio and MR Camping teachings is most truthfull Gospel matching true Gospel of CHRIST AND HIS HOLY WORD BIBLE.a lot of listeners are for sure born again children of God Ephesos 1;3-9

• Eric R.

Wow, y’all are still at it…

To those of you who believe Mr. Camping’s calculation about the return of Christ. Let’s say May 21, 2011, comes and goes, and there is no rapture. Would you then be willing to say that this prophecy (and thus, the prophet who uttered it) is false, or will you wait for a different calculation and a different prediction? If you are not willing to abandon Mr. Camping’s teachings, it is clear to me that you trust more in Harold Camping than in Jesus Christ.

In all honesty, I expect him to backpedal–to give himself some sort of escape hatch in case he is wrong–before May 21. That way, on May 22, he can say, “Oh, wait, but I said Jesus might come back. I didn’t actually say he would.” If he doesn’t, props to him. Maybe then he will opt for the clear reading of the texts of Scripture.

So in honor of our love for God’s good creation, I would like to propose that the rest of us believers go outside and plant a tree May 20, 2011. We’ll call it an exercise of our God-given dominion over this world and an investment in its future beauty. It also recalls the response often attributed to Martin Luther when asked what he would do if he were told that Christ would return the next day. Let’s plant some trees! And yes, I am totally serious.

Pax Christi, y’all!

• Eric R.

Wow, y’all are still at it…

To those of you who believe Mr. Camping’s calculation about the return of Christ. Let’s say May 21, 2011, comes and goes, and there is no rapture. Would you then be willing to say that this prophecy (and thus, the prophet who uttered it) is false, or will you wait for a different calculation and a different prediction? If you are not willing to abandon Mr. Camping’s teachings, it is clear to me that you trust more in Harold Camping than in Jesus Christ.

In all honesty, I expect him to backpedal–to give himself some sort of escape hatch in case he is wrong–before May 21. That way, on May 22, he can say, “Oh, wait, but I said Jesus might come back. I didn’t actually say he would.” If he doesn’t, props to him. Maybe then he will opt for the clear reading of the texts of Scripture.

So in honor of our love for God’s good creation, I would like to propose that the rest of us believers go outside and plant a tree May 20, 2011. We’ll call it an exercise of our God-given dominion over this world and an investment in its future beauty. It also recalls the response often attributed to Martin Luther when asked what he would do if he were told that Christ would return the next day. Let’s plant some trees! And yes, I am totally serious.

Pax Christi, y’all!

• Richard

Hi Tom,

I read the articles you posted on the Timeline of History. The articles are just a copy of what Harold Camping has published. Everyone copies from this single source. The problem with that is if the source has made any errors then the errors are just copied by everyone else.

I saw the same exact thing happen leading up to September 1994. So many people copied Harold’s material and posted it saying it was proof Jesus was returning in September 1994. The source was wrong and therefore everyone else copying the source was wrong.

In Harold’s calculations all the dates have to be exactly correct. With his approach each date depends on the accuracy of previous dates. If a date is off by even 1 year, the entire timeline after that date will also be inaccurate.

In the articles you posted I saw at least 2 very possible mistakes in the dates:
1) The article states “Archaeological and historical records show that Pharaoh Thutmose III, the Pharaoh in power in Egypt during Israel’s exodus from his country, died in the Red Sea while pursuing them in 1447 BC”.

I have researched this and so far what I have found based on Archaeological and historical records is that Thutmose III reigned from 1479 BC to 1425 BC according to the Low Chronology of Ancient Egypt. This has been the conventional Egyptian chronology in academic circles since the 1960s. However in some circles the older dates 1504 BC to 1450 BC are preferred from the High Chronology of Egypt. Neither of these match 1447 BC.

2) The article states “Judah and Jerusalem were destroyed by the Babylonians in 587 BC”.

I have researched this and so far what I have found from just about every source (not releated to Harold Camping) is that the destruction by the Babylonians occurred in 586 BC.

Everyone and all the new websites that copy Harold’s material and claim it’s 100% accurate haven’t proven anything as to whether it is 100% accurate or not. Rather than see people copy Harold’s material and claim it as 100% Truth I would much rather see people try to prove or disprove the accuracy of his dates (without just quoting his material and just adding up his numbers).

I saw this same thing leading up to September 1994. People either accepted what he said 100% (and some sold all they had and gave to the ministry) or some didn’t believe anything he said. I know of one person that committed suicide because he was so depressed when Jesus didn’t return in 1994. What if 2011 ended up having some meaning on the Biblical calendar (like 1994) but not necessary the year Jesus would return? The Faith would be greatly harmed.

Bible Prophecy is very difficult material to study. One must tread very humbly and carefully. Instead of blindly accepting what Harold says 100% (or rejecting 100%) I would love to see some open minded believers try to prove or disprove the accuracy of his dates (without just quoting his material).

The Apostles questioned many things in their search for understanding the truth. I only seek the truth.

• Richard

Hi Tom,

I read the articles you posted on the Timeline of History. The articles are just a copy of what Harold Camping has published. Everyone copies from this single source. The problem with that is if the source has made any errors then the errors are just copied by everyone else.

I saw the same exact thing happen leading up to September 1994. So many people copied Harold’s material and posted it saying it was proof Jesus was returning in September 1994. The source was wrong and therefore everyone else copying the source was wrong.

In Harold’s calculations all the dates have to be exactly correct. With his approach each date depends on the accuracy of previous dates. If a date is off by even 1 year, the entire timeline after that date will also be inaccurate.

In the articles you posted I saw at least 2 very possible mistakes in the dates:
1) The article states “Archaeological and historical records show that Pharaoh Thutmose III, the Pharaoh in power in Egypt during Israel’s exodus from his country, died in the Red Sea while pursuing them in 1447 BC”.

I have researched this and so far what I have found based on Archaeological and historical records is that Thutmose III reigned from 1479 BC to 1425 BC according to the Low Chronology of Ancient Egypt. This has been the conventional Egyptian chronology in academic circles since the 1960s. However in some circles the older dates 1504 BC to 1450 BC are preferred from the High Chronology of Egypt. Neither of these match 1447 BC.

2) The article states “Judah and Jerusalem were destroyed by the Babylonians in 587 BC”.

I have researched this and so far what I have found from just about every source (not releated to Harold Camping) is that the destruction by the Babylonians occurred in 586 BC.

Everyone and all the new websites that copy Harold’s material and claim it’s 100% accurate haven’t proven anything as to whether it is 100% accurate or not. Rather than see people copy Harold’s material and claim it as 100% Truth I would much rather see people try to prove or disprove the accuracy of his dates (without just quoting his material and just adding up his numbers).

I saw this same thing leading up to September 1994. People either accepted what he said 100% (and some sold all they had and gave to the ministry) or some didn’t believe anything he said. I know of one person that committed suicide because he was so depressed when Jesus didn’t return in 1994. What if 2011 ended up having some meaning on the Biblical calendar (like 1994) but not necessary the year Jesus would return? The Faith would be greatly harmed.

Bible Prophecy is very difficult material to study. One must tread very humbly and carefully. Instead of blindly accepting what Harold says 100% (or rejecting 100%) I would love to see some open minded believers try to prove or disprove the accuracy of his dates (without just quoting his material).

The Apostles questioned many things in their search for understanding the truth. I only seek the truth.

• bobby stecko

If this date pass away and nothing happen I encourage to listen family radio most truthfull Gospel of Bible,and be happy living in place directly appointed by god to His children-mistakes of dates and errors happen among us!all of us are imperfect,but it does,nt mean to return to the apostate churches and organizations 38000 demon false “christ”teachings.remember Lots wife and never turn back because turn back can cause your change in the block of salt……all apostate organize religions are like sodomah and gomorah without of holy spirit…2 Cor 11;13-15.2 Thess 2;3-12
be patient til 5/21/2011 and not scoof,mock,or speculate,just enjoy this earthly life to the end……if God want to have you as king?you are going to be king or prinze in heaven…but if God do,nt want to you as HIS child you will be left behind and enjoy horible death without of God and HIS SALVATION….what man sow this will reap at end….also humble himself before God Psalm 51;1-17….and cry for mercy instead of waisting time and speculate if? or if not?

• bobby stecko

If this date pass away and nothing happen I encourage to listen family radio most truthfull Gospel of Bible,and be happy living in place directly appointed by god to His children-mistakes of dates and errors happen among us!all of us are imperfect,but it does,nt mean to return to the apostate churches and organizations 38000 demon false “christ”teachings.remember Lots wife and never turn back because turn back can cause your change in the block of salt……all apostate organize religions are like sodomah and gomorah without of holy spirit…2 Cor 11;13-15.2 Thess 2;3-12
be patient til 5/21/2011 and not scoof,mock,or speculate,just enjoy this earthly life to the end……if God want to have you as king?you are going to be king or prinze in heaven…but if God do,nt want to you as HIS child you will be left behind and enjoy horible death without of God and HIS SALVATION….what man sow this will reap at end….also humble himself before God Psalm 51;1-17….and cry for mercy instead of waisting time and speculate if? or if not?

• WebMonk

I realize bobby isn’t still hanging around this post, but I hope his eyes have been opened about how Camping is a false teacher. May he come to follow Christ. Christ will never leave you nor forsake you, though Camping lead you astray.

• WebMonk

I realize bobby isn’t still hanging around this post, but I hope his eyes have been opened about how Camping is a false teacher. May he come to follow Christ. Christ will never leave you nor forsake you, though Camping lead you astray.

• BOBBY STECKO

from my spiritual biblical point,I never was convionced about rapture at 5/21/2011,from my not modified chronology of 13 mileniums-past 1982-83,I only theorise,if we add 7 or minus 7,we will go+ 2011 17 day 2 month,2011 AS ANIVERSARY OF FLOOD OF NOAH
but Bible,never teach any last day of slavation and rapture at 7000 aniversary of flood
mathematical earthly specualtion concluded Camping not from his own chronology,one helpers who gave him this chronolgy
his earthly speculations date of return Christ,was and is against spiritual value of eternal Plan of God,not based on confussed windows of earthly time
“idiotism” of Camping reveal us,him as earthly person,greedy own glory,and own position as teacher-it seems from his arogance on open forums,and earthly thinking,Camping have no spiritual qualifications as teacher or prophet,just scam claiming absolute authority of Bible to his stupid dates-this way puting yourselves as a mouth of God-Camping never ever before 5/21/2011 that maybe exist human error PSALM 116;11.ROMANS 3;4,Camping even blame callers that callers have no authrity to deny this date,and Camping stupidly claimed,that deny 5/21/2011 is same like deny existency of God
this con artist dreamed to be in heaven as big KING.God drop him down to this earth of reality- he is not false prophet,not biblical teacher,only christianity scam,con artist,and end is for people like him,worse as before

just shame for teachers which never before admit own errors-only claim 100% authority of Bible
Camping never got and never have any aythority of Bible,
his teaching despise true anointed ones,that he call believers dogs,penauts mind,stupid,idiots- humans are beauty of creaton in Gods imige,Christ have and had purpose to die for this preciuss creation-but camping as teacher not allowed is to teach,and stick old fingers calling believers names inphysical and spiritual sense
Camping despise yourselves,and disqulify yourselves from being any biblical teacher
we are able serve God under teachings of Holy Spirit John 14;26
not to be under subject of falsehood,lies,and empty earthly bulshit teachings of churches,or antichrists in human bodies like camping
thank you

• BOBBY STECKO

from my spiritual biblical point,I never was convionced about rapture at 5/21/2011,from my not modified chronology of 13 mileniums-past 1982-83,I only theorise,if we add 7 or minus 7,we will go+ 2011 17 day 2 month,2011 AS ANIVERSARY OF FLOOD OF NOAH
but Bible,never teach any last day of slavation and rapture at 7000 aniversary of flood
mathematical earthly specualtion concluded Camping not from his own chronology,one helpers who gave him this chronolgy
his earthly speculations date of return Christ,was and is against spiritual value of eternal Plan of God,not based on confussed windows of earthly time
“idiotism” of Camping reveal us,him as earthly person,greedy own glory,and own position as teacher-it seems from his arogance on open forums,and earthly thinking,Camping have no spiritual qualifications as teacher or prophet,just scam claiming absolute authority of Bible to his stupid dates-this way puting yourselves as a mouth of God-Camping never ever before 5/21/2011 that maybe exist human error PSALM 116;11.ROMANS 3;4,Camping even blame callers that callers have no authrity to deny this date,and Camping stupidly claimed,that deny 5/21/2011 is same like deny existency of God
this con artist dreamed to be in heaven as big KING.God drop him down to this earth of reality- he is not false prophet,not biblical teacher,only christianity scam,con artist,and end is for people like him,worse as before

just shame for teachers which never before admit own errors-only claim 100% authority of Bible
Camping never got and never have any aythority of Bible,
his teaching despise true anointed ones,that he call believers dogs,penauts mind,stupid,idiots- humans are beauty of creaton in Gods imige,Christ have and had purpose to die for this preciuss creation-but camping as teacher not allowed is to teach,and stick old fingers calling believers names inphysical and spiritual sense
Camping despise yourselves,and disqulify yourselves from being any biblical teacher
we are able serve God under teachings of Holy Spirit John 14;26
not to be under subject of falsehood,lies,and empty earthly bulshit teachings of churches,or antichrists in human bodies like camping
thank you

• BOBBY STECKO

mr web monk,please/read careffuly my previous post,I alway was talking about human errors,and enjoying life as is
camping used Bible not in full sense of 2 tim 3;16.
underestimating before 5/21/2011 all callers with question about 5/21/2011 put him lower in my eyes before 5/21/2011
to claim?if somebody deny 5/21/2011 is to deny God,prophets,and Bible,put him in my eyes as spiritual idiot,not mature spiritualy and not fit 100% John 1;13.John 3;3.5-8
today makes me sick his again arogance about 10/21/2011,and talking like jehova witnesses about 1914 visible comong Christ-he did,not come,they start claim,Christ is spiritualy King from 1914,
same nonsense start agin camping,only his claims are sick and stupid,because spiritualy did,ne exist earthquakes from n,zeland-and spiritualy what kind of wild beasts,and vouchers eat human bodies all around the world,it means from his stupid talk,that nobody have any more any salvation from 5/21/2011
it seems to me,this man just enter in the dark spiritual zone of self destructions,according to 2 Peter 2;19-22……just his own coruption turn him back according to the proverb v22…..The dog is turned to his own vomit again;and the sow that was washed to her wallows in the mire.

• BOBBY STECKO

mr web monk,please/read careffuly my previous post,I alway was talking about human errors,and enjoying life as is