Homeschooling comebacks

Deborah Markus gives 25 comebacks to people who question the decision to homeschool.  Here is one:

Please stop questioning my competency and demanding to see my credentials. I didn’t have to complete a course in catering to successfully cook dinner for my family; I don’t need a degree in teaching to educate my children. If spending at least twelve years in the kind of chew-it-up-and-spit-it-out educational facility we call public school left me with so little information in my memory banks that I can’t teach the basics of an elementary education to my nearest and dearest, maybe there’s a reason I’m so reluctant to send my child to school.

via Secular Homeschooling Magazine: The Bitter Homeschooler’s Wish List.

HT:  Joe Carter

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • http://womanofthehouse-blog.blogspot.com/ womanofthehouse

    My pet peeves are when my children get drilled. It puts them on the spot and makes them nervous or they get asked about topics we haven’t studied yet or don’t think are important. My second pet peeve is when people say that they could never homeschool. Yes, they could, and if they are Christians, they are saying God’s grace would not be sufficient for them to teach their own children and spend whole days with them. For shame.

  • http://womanofthehouse-blog.blogspot.com/ womanofthehouse

    My pet peeves are when my children get drilled. It puts them on the spot and makes them nervous or they get asked about topics we haven’t studied yet or don’t think are important. My second pet peeve is when people say that they could never homeschool. Yes, they could, and if they are Christians, they are saying God’s grace would not be sufficient for them to teach their own children and spend whole days with them. For shame.

  • Brenda

    Early on I was advised by a homeschool mom to intercede on my child’s behalf when inquiring minds wanted to know why said child was not in school. It was our choice and I didn’t think it fair to force our kids, who had no say in the matter, to justify to a nosey adult why the parent chose this mode of education.

  • Brenda

    Early on I was advised by a homeschool mom to intercede on my child’s behalf when inquiring minds wanted to know why said child was not in school. It was our choice and I didn’t think it fair to force our kids, who had no say in the matter, to justify to a nosey adult why the parent chose this mode of education.

  • John C

    I admire Deborah’s ability to cook dinner successfully for her family but I do hope she is offering her chidren more than baked beans on toast.

  • John C

    I admire Deborah’s ability to cook dinner successfully for her family but I do hope she is offering her chidren more than baked beans on toast.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    Mmmmmm….baked beans on toast……… :^) (vegan response to chipped beef?)

    OK, seriously, I’m a bit put off by the confrontational attitude. “come-backs” can be fun, but if you want to win people’s hearts, don’t ya think that response ought to be delivered with a smile? I really wish I could say “well, that’s the attitude you get for being a secularist”, but the correlation between verbalized faith (or lack thereof) and joy isn’t as good as we’d like to see….

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    Mmmmmm….baked beans on toast……… :^) (vegan response to chipped beef?)

    OK, seriously, I’m a bit put off by the confrontational attitude. “come-backs” can be fun, but if you want to win people’s hearts, don’t ya think that response ought to be delivered with a smile? I really wish I could say “well, that’s the attitude you get for being a secularist”, but the correlation between verbalized faith (or lack thereof) and joy isn’t as good as we’d like to see….

  • Joe

    Bike – I have no idea who this author is, but I can understand how a list like this would be written. I try very hard to discuss our decision to home school pleasantly, informatively and non-judgmentally. And, sometimes that works and a great conversation ensues, but often times it doesn’t work because the person who initially asked you about it is not interested in a conversation. They are interested in validating their decision to send their kid to the public school, which is often done by trying to demonstrate why my decision is wrong. In those instances, that conversation begins in a confrontational manner and it is not going anywhere else. I don’t think I would actually say the things on this list, but it really is kind of fun to think about it.

  • Joe

    Bike – I have no idea who this author is, but I can understand how a list like this would be written. I try very hard to discuss our decision to home school pleasantly, informatively and non-judgmentally. And, sometimes that works and a great conversation ensues, but often times it doesn’t work because the person who initially asked you about it is not interested in a conversation. They are interested in validating their decision to send their kid to the public school, which is often done by trying to demonstrate why my decision is wrong. In those instances, that conversation begins in a confrontational manner and it is not going anywhere else. I don’t think I would actually say the things on this list, but it really is kind of fun to think about it.

  • http://theoldadam.wordpress.com/ Steve Martin

    Expect more and more crackdowns on homeschooling to come. The unions and their puppets in government do not like having their meal tickets taken away from them, nor do they like missing an opportunity to indoctrinate one more kid into leftism.

  • http://theoldadam.wordpress.com/ Steve Martin

    Expect more and more crackdowns on homeschooling to come. The unions and their puppets in government do not like having their meal tickets taken away from them, nor do they like missing an opportunity to indoctrinate one more kid into leftism.

  • Orianna Laun

    There are homeschoolers, and then there are homeschoolers. There was a story a few years ago about “home-un-schoolers” who let their children choose the curriculum and rate of study with a “whatever” mentality. There are others who choose to homeschool because they don’t want their children mixing with “those other people.” The general populace figures regular school was good enough for them, why isn’t it for everybody and assumes that homeschool folks fall into one of the above two camps. Not so. It will merely take time and patience (and the continued decline of public education in America) to overcome the prejudice.

  • Orianna Laun

    There are homeschoolers, and then there are homeschoolers. There was a story a few years ago about “home-un-schoolers” who let their children choose the curriculum and rate of study with a “whatever” mentality. There are others who choose to homeschool because they don’t want their children mixing with “those other people.” The general populace figures regular school was good enough for them, why isn’t it for everybody and assumes that homeschool folks fall into one of the above two camps. Not so. It will merely take time and patience (and the continued decline of public education in America) to overcome the prejudice.

  • Carl Vehse

    I’m a bit put off by the confrontational attitude. “come-backs” can be fun, but if you want to win people’s hearts, don’t ya think that response ought to be delivered with a smile?

    In trying to talk to some people (and that includes most liberals), the best advice is that given by the farmer in the story about the mule and the 2×4: “First you have to get their attention.”

  • Carl Vehse

    I’m a bit put off by the confrontational attitude. “come-backs” can be fun, but if you want to win people’s hearts, don’t ya think that response ought to be delivered with a smile?

    In trying to talk to some people (and that includes most liberals), the best advice is that given by the farmer in the story about the mule and the 2×4: “First you have to get their attention.”

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in 21st Century

    I am very glad we have a rather positive example of homeschoolers in our congregation. Their kids are very well educated, socialized, and active in the congregation. Their oldest is even now in the deaconess program at CU-Chicago (River Forest if you’re a traditionalist ;) ). The one thing they tend to get annoyed about is everybody assuming they aren’t socialized. Honestly, you couldn’t ask for better adjusted well socialized kids.

    In regards to the quoted blogger, I can see where the bitterness comes from we have experienced some of it ourselves as homeschoolers. We are constantly bombarded with but how will the socialize. Correct me if I am wrong but I remember being reprimanded for socializing during class. Interestingly enough my mother, a professional educator, is supportive of our decision and DW’s mother is less supportive (offered to pay for pre-schooling).

    As Orianna states there are homeschoolers and then there are homeschoolers. My wife and I decided to homeschool for differing reasons. I liked the freedom it afforded us (family could come with for pastor’s conferences, choice in content, etc.) and the wife felt school had failed to challenge her. I personally now have to work hard to not feel disdainful of public schools, but they are making it difficult. I as a pastor couldn’t go help my students with See You At The Pole with out being practically strip searched on the way in (I have had easier times seeing inmates).

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in 21st Century

    I am very glad we have a rather positive example of homeschoolers in our congregation. Their kids are very well educated, socialized, and active in the congregation. Their oldest is even now in the deaconess program at CU-Chicago (River Forest if you’re a traditionalist ;) ). The one thing they tend to get annoyed about is everybody assuming they aren’t socialized. Honestly, you couldn’t ask for better adjusted well socialized kids.

    In regards to the quoted blogger, I can see where the bitterness comes from we have experienced some of it ourselves as homeschoolers. We are constantly bombarded with but how will the socialize. Correct me if I am wrong but I remember being reprimanded for socializing during class. Interestingly enough my mother, a professional educator, is supportive of our decision and DW’s mother is less supportive (offered to pay for pre-schooling).

    As Orianna states there are homeschoolers and then there are homeschoolers. My wife and I decided to homeschool for differing reasons. I liked the freedom it afforded us (family could come with for pastor’s conferences, choice in content, etc.) and the wife felt school had failed to challenge her. I personally now have to work hard to not feel disdainful of public schools, but they are making it difficult. I as a pastor couldn’t go help my students with See You At The Pole with out being practically strip searched on the way in (I have had easier times seeing inmates).

  • sg

    “Expect more and more crackdowns on homeschooling to come. The unions and their puppets in government do not like having their meal tickets taken away from them, nor do they like missing an opportunity to indoctrinate one more kid into leftism.”

    Not so sure. If there are a million kids at home, they might more likely end up in private schools anyway, not public. The same folks who despise homeschoolers often have their own kids in private schools. Notice the Obama girls are in private schools. The main threat that private/homeschooled children pose to public ed is skimming the top performing students and thereby making it impossible for average achievement in public ed to keep pace.

    People want to believe that quality education makes the scores go up but really it is only a necessary but not sufficient condition. If the kids have modest or low ability, the very best education will not make them proficient.

    Consider NYU. It was not an awesome university, yet 33 Nobel Prize winners went there. Why? How did that happen. Poor but talented Jewish immigrant students who couldn’t afford anything else. Students make the university. They also make the schools. That is why selective schools seem so great. Sure, they may have great programs, but if they were populated with average students, they would have average results.

  • sg

    “Expect more and more crackdowns on homeschooling to come. The unions and their puppets in government do not like having their meal tickets taken away from them, nor do they like missing an opportunity to indoctrinate one more kid into leftism.”

    Not so sure. If there are a million kids at home, they might more likely end up in private schools anyway, not public. The same folks who despise homeschoolers often have their own kids in private schools. Notice the Obama girls are in private schools. The main threat that private/homeschooled children pose to public ed is skimming the top performing students and thereby making it impossible for average achievement in public ed to keep pace.

    People want to believe that quality education makes the scores go up but really it is only a necessary but not sufficient condition. If the kids have modest or low ability, the very best education will not make them proficient.

    Consider NYU. It was not an awesome university, yet 33 Nobel Prize winners went there. Why? How did that happen. Poor but talented Jewish immigrant students who couldn’t afford anything else. Students make the university. They also make the schools. That is why selective schools seem so great. Sure, they may have great programs, but if they were populated with average students, they would have average results.

  • John C

    Crackdowns Steve?
    The State should always take an interest in the quality of education.
    So should parents.
    And you would prefer the indoctrination of parents to the diversity of school?

  • John C

    Crackdowns Steve?
    The State should always take an interest in the quality of education.
    So should parents.
    And you would prefer the indoctrination of parents to the diversity of school?

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    Carl; agreed on getting their attention, but sometimes I feel that a light hand does so better.

    To try that art: John, are you really under the impression that the government’s schools never indoctrinate students? If so, remember what you were taught in government school history (“we are a democracy”) and compare it to what the Founders and the Constitution say (we are a republic).

    For further home education, you may consult the “Federalist Papers” and “Anti-Federalist Papers” to see why Hamilton, Jay, Madison, and others felt that this was a very important distinction. Study hint; the answer involves hemlock.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    Carl; agreed on getting their attention, but sometimes I feel that a light hand does so better.

    To try that art: John, are you really under the impression that the government’s schools never indoctrinate students? If so, remember what you were taught in government school history (“we are a democracy”) and compare it to what the Founders and the Constitution say (we are a republic).

    For further home education, you may consult the “Federalist Papers” and “Anti-Federalist Papers” to see why Hamilton, Jay, Madison, and others felt that this was a very important distinction. Study hint; the answer involves hemlock.

  • sg

    “And you would prefer the indoctrination of parents to the diversity of school?”

    He, he. Too funny. “diversity” Hint: diversity is not a strength.

    Gov’t indoctrination suggests it is, while history shows it is not.

    Diversity has become one of those ideas that must be worshipped. Silly. Don’t fall for it. All cultures, ideas etc. are not equal in quality or efficacy. Some ideas and cultures are better than others. Cue the diversity police to whine and prattle as they try to stamp out a diverse opinion.

  • sg

    “And you would prefer the indoctrination of parents to the diversity of school?”

    He, he. Too funny. “diversity” Hint: diversity is not a strength.

    Gov’t indoctrination suggests it is, while history shows it is not.

    Diversity has become one of those ideas that must be worshipped. Silly. Don’t fall for it. All cultures, ideas etc. are not equal in quality or efficacy. Some ideas and cultures are better than others. Cue the diversity police to whine and prattle as they try to stamp out a diverse opinion.

  • sg

    It is impossible to educate without indoctrinating.

    If you teach diversity is good, you are indoctrinating.

    If you teach diversity is not good, you are indoctrinating.

  • sg

    It is impossible to educate without indoctrinating.

    If you teach diversity is good, you are indoctrinating.

    If you teach diversity is not good, you are indoctrinating.

  • DrJoan

    My daughter home schools her six; they are some of the most socialized and best educated children one could ever hope for. Fortunately, in our state (WA) we have a modicum of support for home schooled children. But the teachers and the unions lobby hard to take what little home schoolers get and pour it into the public schools–just more money wasted in the public classroom! I have a friend who is a teacher who laments home-schooling at every turn, blaming them for lack of public school support and saddling them with every ill she can.
    Ah, well; our grandchildren get a wonderful education, outrank their “peers,” and socialize at a great church. Plus they excel at such activities as Bible Quizzing, hand-bell ringing, and Scouting. Girl Scout cookie anyone?

  • DrJoan

    My daughter home schools her six; they are some of the most socialized and best educated children one could ever hope for. Fortunately, in our state (WA) we have a modicum of support for home schooled children. But the teachers and the unions lobby hard to take what little home schoolers get and pour it into the public schools–just more money wasted in the public classroom! I have a friend who is a teacher who laments home-schooling at every turn, blaming them for lack of public school support and saddling them with every ill she can.
    Ah, well; our grandchildren get a wonderful education, outrank their “peers,” and socialize at a great church. Plus they excel at such activities as Bible Quizzing, hand-bell ringing, and Scouting. Girl Scout cookie anyone?

  • sg

    “I have a friend who is a teacher who laments home-schooling at every turn, blaming them for lack of public school support and saddling them with every ill she can.”

    Yep, blame the dedicated parents for schooling their own kids while funding the (all time high) educational expenses for everyone else’s kids. Maybe it really isn’t the fault of diligent parents that the children of others are not as successful.

  • sg

    “I have a friend who is a teacher who laments home-schooling at every turn, blaming them for lack of public school support and saddling them with every ill she can.”

    Yep, blame the dedicated parents for schooling their own kids while funding the (all time high) educational expenses for everyone else’s kids. Maybe it really isn’t the fault of diligent parents that the children of others are not as successful.

  • J Voss

    I’ve been homeschooling now for ten years and I have heard plenty of these pesky comments. I’ve decided that the reason why has something to do with the Japanese proverb: “The nail that sticks up will be hammered down.” Those of us who stand up and challenge the system make it harder for other parents to say to their children, “You must go to school. All children do.”

  • J Voss

    I’ve been homeschooling now for ten years and I have heard plenty of these pesky comments. I’ve decided that the reason why has something to do with the Japanese proverb: “The nail that sticks up will be hammered down.” Those of us who stand up and challenge the system make it harder for other parents to say to their children, “You must go to school. All children do.”

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    My wife loves the response she gets from many children when they’re told our kids are educated at home; many will make a puppy dog eyes look and ask Mom if they can, too.

    Now part of it certainly might be a perception that (as in Baby Blues comics) a good part of it is breaks to play with dolls, of course. Even so, I have to wonder if the wonderful behavior I observed on the school bus over the years, not to mention the fine command of Anglo-Saxon verbiage I obtained in the classroom and hallways (that somehow never helped me with Beowulf), might have something to do with it as well.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    My wife loves the response she gets from many children when they’re told our kids are educated at home; many will make a puppy dog eyes look and ask Mom if they can, too.

    Now part of it certainly might be a perception that (as in Baby Blues comics) a good part of it is breaks to play with dolls, of course. Even so, I have to wonder if the wonderful behavior I observed on the school bus over the years, not to mention the fine command of Anglo-Saxon verbiage I obtained in the classroom and hallways (that somehow never helped me with Beowulf), might have something to do with it as well.

  • Stephanie

    I have nothing against most parents who choose to home school (the one exception being the mother who claimed it was so much better because all she had to do was make sure her son got on the computer each day to do some automated lesson thing for a couple of hours and then she was done). However, the tone in some of these responses directed at public and even private/parochial schools is disturbing.

    Homeschooling can be an excellent choice for many families. Parochial schools can be an excellent choice for many families. Public schools can be an excellent choice for many families.

    Just like not all homeschoolers are un-schoolers, not all public school parents treat school as a babysitter and ignore their children’s education.

  • Stephanie

    I have nothing against most parents who choose to home school (the one exception being the mother who claimed it was so much better because all she had to do was make sure her son got on the computer each day to do some automated lesson thing for a couple of hours and then she was done). However, the tone in some of these responses directed at public and even private/parochial schools is disturbing.

    Homeschooling can be an excellent choice for many families. Parochial schools can be an excellent choice for many families. Public schools can be an excellent choice for many families.

    Just like not all homeschoolers are un-schoolers, not all public school parents treat school as a babysitter and ignore their children’s education.

  • http://www.redeemedrambling.blogspot.com/ John

    I was homeschooled through all twelve grades, and we fielded these sorts of questions frequently. At a certain point, though, the questions became irrelevant – I was so far ahead of even the person asking the question that the answer became loomingly self-evident.
    “Why do you homeschool?”
    “Its a personal choice issue. Would you like to see the blueprints I drew up re-engineering the intake manifold of my Dad’s Volvo to take advantage of sonic resonance?”
    “I see. Have a nice day.”

  • http://www.redeemedrambling.blogspot.com/ John

    I was homeschooled through all twelve grades, and we fielded these sorts of questions frequently. At a certain point, though, the questions became irrelevant – I was so far ahead of even the person asking the question that the answer became loomingly self-evident.
    “Why do you homeschool?”
    “Its a personal choice issue. Would you like to see the blueprints I drew up re-engineering the intake manifold of my Dad’s Volvo to take advantage of sonic resonance?”
    “I see. Have a nice day.”

  • sg

    “I have nothing against most parents who choose to home school (the one exception being the mother who claimed it was so much better because all she had to do was make sure her son got on the computer each day to do some automated lesson thing for a couple of hours and then she was done). ”

    Gifted students can learn pretty well with minimal instruction. Many learn better from reading than from direct instruction. Obviously this would be a minority even among the self selected homeschooled population. However, for this sub group, simply directing the student to do his lessons and helping occasionally is a reasonable strategy. Also, such students enjoy choosing and pursuing their own interests and can quickly surpass most teachers or parents in a narrow topic.

  • sg

    “I have nothing against most parents who choose to home school (the one exception being the mother who claimed it was so much better because all she had to do was make sure her son got on the computer each day to do some automated lesson thing for a couple of hours and then she was done). ”

    Gifted students can learn pretty well with minimal instruction. Many learn better from reading than from direct instruction. Obviously this would be a minority even among the self selected homeschooled population. However, for this sub group, simply directing the student to do his lessons and helping occasionally is a reasonable strategy. Also, such students enjoy choosing and pursuing their own interests and can quickly surpass most teachers or parents in a narrow topic.

  • Louis

    Stephanie @ #19 – Amen. Frankly, many (not all) homeschoolers are just as judgemental about people with different schooling choices. I’ve had the (dubious) oppurtunity to have children go through home-, public- and private schooling (long story). The long and the short of it: Everybody needs to love their own, and mind their own business.

  • Louis

    Stephanie @ #19 – Amen. Frankly, many (not all) homeschoolers are just as judgemental about people with different schooling choices. I’ve had the (dubious) oppurtunity to have children go through home-, public- and private schooling (long story). The long and the short of it: Everybody needs to love their own, and mind their own business.

  • Josie

    I’ve homeschooled our son for 6 years now and have never encountered the type of negative questions I read about online such as the quoted piece. No one has grilled my son or put me down personally because of my choice. When people do question me about why we homeschool I see it as an opportunity share our reasons rather than a chance to get defensive. I have many friends who can’t homeschool for various reasons but have “a homeschooler’s heart” ie. they genuinely want the best education for their child and support them outside of their public/private school with homework and extracurricular events etc.

  • Josie

    I’ve homeschooled our son for 6 years now and have never encountered the type of negative questions I read about online such as the quoted piece. No one has grilled my son or put me down personally because of my choice. When people do question me about why we homeschool I see it as an opportunity share our reasons rather than a chance to get defensive. I have many friends who can’t homeschool for various reasons but have “a homeschooler’s heart” ie. they genuinely want the best education for their child and support them outside of their public/private school with homework and extracurricular events etc.

  • John C

    Don’t be too quick to disparage diversity, sg. You can find it just about everywhere — a modicum of divesity exists even on this blog.

  • John C

    Don’t be too quick to disparage diversity, sg. You can find it just about everywhere — a modicum of divesity exists even on this blog.

  • Stephanie

    sg @21
    Yes, well, being gifted was not this student’s situation. This information came via a long monolague by the mother and, well, I don’t want to go into details, but the things she was saying and the flippant way she was treating everything made me sad for the child. While homeschooling could have been a good idea for the student, it was certainly not being implemented in an ideal way for his needs. I am drawing no colclusions from it except that there exists one homeschooling parent whose approach I think is harmful. I do not think it is representative.

    I’m aware that sometimes minimal instruction works for some students. Frankly, one of the best things my fourth grade teacher (parochial school) did was allow us to go through the math curriculum at our own pace. Once we could get a B or better on a test of the material in the chapter, we could move on to the next chapter. There were 3 students in the class who had finished the whole book with ~2 months left in the school year while the rest of the class was delayed going over fractions. For the last few months of class, we got to do pre-algebra worksheets and games. It was so much better than trying to keep everyone together. At least from my perspective. I was much less bored than normal.

  • Stephanie

    sg @21
    Yes, well, being gifted was not this student’s situation. This information came via a long monolague by the mother and, well, I don’t want to go into details, but the things she was saying and the flippant way she was treating everything made me sad for the child. While homeschooling could have been a good idea for the student, it was certainly not being implemented in an ideal way for his needs. I am drawing no colclusions from it except that there exists one homeschooling parent whose approach I think is harmful. I do not think it is representative.

    I’m aware that sometimes minimal instruction works for some students. Frankly, one of the best things my fourth grade teacher (parochial school) did was allow us to go through the math curriculum at our own pace. Once we could get a B or better on a test of the material in the chapter, we could move on to the next chapter. There were 3 students in the class who had finished the whole book with ~2 months left in the school year while the rest of the class was delayed going over fractions. For the last few months of class, we got to do pre-algebra worksheets and games. It was so much better than trying to keep everyone together. At least from my perspective. I was much less bored than normal.

  • sg

    “Don’t be too quick to disparage diversity, sg. You can find it just about everywhere — a modicum of divesity exists even on this blog.”

    Duh. There is always some degree of diversity. I disparage the worship of diversity. I don’t think all diversity is good just because it is diverse. In school you have the nerds, the jocks, the bullies, etc. Bullies aren’t good just because they add another dimension of diversity.

  • sg

    “Don’t be too quick to disparage diversity, sg. You can find it just about everywhere — a modicum of divesity exists even on this blog.”

    Duh. There is always some degree of diversity. I disparage the worship of diversity. I don’t think all diversity is good just because it is diverse. In school you have the nerds, the jocks, the bullies, etc. Bullies aren’t good just because they add another dimension of diversity.

  • John C

    You use the word ‘indoctrinate’ Bike Bubba. I prefer to use the word ‘enculturate’. Public schools have a responsibility to introduce to children the values and traditions that will enable them to adapt and assimilate into society.
    Homeschoolers may or may not promote the values and traditions found in public schools. They certainly withdraw their children from the larger society.

  • John C

    You use the word ‘indoctrinate’ Bike Bubba. I prefer to use the word ‘enculturate’. Public schools have a responsibility to introduce to children the values and traditions that will enable them to adapt and assimilate into society.
    Homeschoolers may or may not promote the values and traditions found in public schools. They certainly withdraw their children from the larger society.

  • sg

    “Homeschoolers may or may not promote the values and traditions found in public schools. They certainly withdraw their children from the larger society.”

    Duh. Same goes for those parents who put their kids in private schools. I think the kids in Islamic schools are getting a different perspective and values from those in public schools. The Obama girls are in a separate and unequal private school as well. We don’t yet live in a totalitarian state where every kid is forced by the state to get the same values taught to him as the next kid. The Obamas chose to withdraw their children from the larger society. Their girls have not sat one day in a public educational institution and probably never will. If it is fine for them, and fine for muslims, then it is fine for Christians, or homeschoolers or anyone else who so chooses.

  • sg

    “Homeschoolers may or may not promote the values and traditions found in public schools. They certainly withdraw their children from the larger society.”

    Duh. Same goes for those parents who put their kids in private schools. I think the kids in Islamic schools are getting a different perspective and values from those in public schools. The Obama girls are in a separate and unequal private school as well. We don’t yet live in a totalitarian state where every kid is forced by the state to get the same values taught to him as the next kid. The Obamas chose to withdraw their children from the larger society. Their girls have not sat one day in a public educational institution and probably never will. If it is fine for them, and fine for muslims, then it is fine for Christians, or homeschoolers or anyone else who so chooses.

  • John C

    I must admit sg, I have the same misgivings about private schools as I do with homeschoolers. So much for diversity……
    At least the Obama children are not home schooled. I wonder if they were sent to a Christian school. I think not but you never know.

  • John C

    I must admit sg, I have the same misgivings about private schools as I do with homeschoolers. So much for diversity……
    At least the Obama children are not home schooled. I wonder if they were sent to a Christian school. I think not but you never know.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    John C (@27), “They certainly withdraw their children from the larger society.” What? What? What sort of bizarre world do you live in? And what stranger one do you dream of?

    Home-school kids leave the house, you know. They eat out. They go to their friends’ houses. They attend events. Talk to other children — frequently even in the context of home-schooling.

    To accuse home-schooled children of being withdrawn from the society at large is to accuse nearly all children from before a hundred or so years ago from being withdrawn from society. Is that what you’re trying to say? Was everyone anti-social back then?

    I’m far from the greatest proponent of home-schooling (both my wife and I are public-school products, went to a fairly esteemed but not-home-schooler-centric private university, and currently do not have plans to home-school our son), but come on.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    John C (@27), “They certainly withdraw their children from the larger society.” What? What? What sort of bizarre world do you live in? And what stranger one do you dream of?

    Home-school kids leave the house, you know. They eat out. They go to their friends’ houses. They attend events. Talk to other children — frequently even in the context of home-schooling.

    To accuse home-schooled children of being withdrawn from the society at large is to accuse nearly all children from before a hundred or so years ago from being withdrawn from society. Is that what you’re trying to say? Was everyone anti-social back then?

    I’m far from the greatest proponent of home-schooling (both my wife and I are public-school products, went to a fairly esteemed but not-home-schooler-centric private university, and currently do not have plans to home-school our son), but come on.

  • sg

    Obama girls are at a private Christian school. The entire student body participates in weekly religious meetings.

  • sg

    Obama girls are at a private Christian school. The entire student body participates in weekly religious meetings.

  • sg

    “I’m far from the greatest proponent of home-schooling (both my wife and I are public-school products, went to a fairly esteemed but not-home-schooler-centric private university, and currently do not have plans to home-school our son), but come on.”

    You know, my husband and I both went to public schools in well to do suburban districts and did just fine in college as well. There are plenty of really good public schools in better neighborhoods.

  • sg

    “I’m far from the greatest proponent of home-schooling (both my wife and I are public-school products, went to a fairly esteemed but not-home-schooler-centric private university, and currently do not have plans to home-school our son), but come on.”

    You know, my husband and I both went to public schools in well to do suburban districts and did just fine in college as well. There are plenty of really good public schools in better neighborhoods.

  • http://womanofthehouse-blog.blogspot.com/ womanofthehouse

    John C @27

    Indoctrinate or enculturate, it makes no difference to me. We homeschool our kids precisely because we *don’t* want the government doing either to our children. My husband and I are quite capable of passing on the traditions and values that we as Christians want them to have. I’m not so impressed with what our government has been promoting for the past couple decades in the schools to want our children indoctrinated or enculturated with it.

    As to withdrawing our children from the larger society, well, I have to agree with you here to a certain extent. Have you looked at our society recently? It’s a cesspool, and I would no more send my children out into it than I would send them to play in a toxic waste dump, especially when they are young. It’s our job as parents to protect them, and I’m not ashamed to say that my husband and I have tried to do just that. We’ve limited the media allowed in our house, and we chose carefully the society they participated in. As they grew older and had been pretty thoroughly grounded in our Christian values, we gradually loosened the restrictions, but by then they already had a solid foundation for discerning what is edifying from the garbage. We have one married young adult and one teen, and so far we are pretty darned pleased with them. We know it’s by God’s grace that they are who they are, and we take no credit ourselves.

    A study came out a couple years ago that showed that homeschool graduates actually were more involved in their communities, volunteered more, etc. than their public school counterparts. As adults, they are more involved in society, not less.

    Our choice to homeschool boils down to this: We didn’t think it good stewardship of the children God gave us to send them to public indoctrination (or enculturation) centers for six or seven hours a day only to have to undo it later. We think it’s far better to teach our children ourselves in the first place. We don’t want to be unequally yoked with the government in that manner. Homeschooling has been fantastic for our family, and I thank the Lord for leading us to it.

  • http://womanofthehouse-blog.blogspot.com/ womanofthehouse

    John C @27

    Indoctrinate or enculturate, it makes no difference to me. We homeschool our kids precisely because we *don’t* want the government doing either to our children. My husband and I are quite capable of passing on the traditions and values that we as Christians want them to have. I’m not so impressed with what our government has been promoting for the past couple decades in the schools to want our children indoctrinated or enculturated with it.

    As to withdrawing our children from the larger society, well, I have to agree with you here to a certain extent. Have you looked at our society recently? It’s a cesspool, and I would no more send my children out into it than I would send them to play in a toxic waste dump, especially when they are young. It’s our job as parents to protect them, and I’m not ashamed to say that my husband and I have tried to do just that. We’ve limited the media allowed in our house, and we chose carefully the society they participated in. As they grew older and had been pretty thoroughly grounded in our Christian values, we gradually loosened the restrictions, but by then they already had a solid foundation for discerning what is edifying from the garbage. We have one married young adult and one teen, and so far we are pretty darned pleased with them. We know it’s by God’s grace that they are who they are, and we take no credit ourselves.

    A study came out a couple years ago that showed that homeschool graduates actually were more involved in their communities, volunteered more, etc. than their public school counterparts. As adults, they are more involved in society, not less.

    Our choice to homeschool boils down to this: We didn’t think it good stewardship of the children God gave us to send them to public indoctrination (or enculturation) centers for six or seven hours a day only to have to undo it later. We think it’s far better to teach our children ourselves in the first place. We don’t want to be unequally yoked with the government in that manner. Homeschooling has been fantastic for our family, and I thank the Lord for leading us to it.

  • John C

    Todd, the past is another country.
    The modern economy requires 13 years of High School. That’s an awful lot of homeschooling.
    In making the decision to homeschool, parents have accepted one or more of the following propositions –
    the school provides an unsafe environment
    the curriculm content is ideologically unsound
    the school promotes a morally dubious value system
    public school teachers are either incompetent or ineffective
    These same concerns can be leveled at homeschoolers. The difference between homeschool and public school is that public schools are open to scrutiny from both parents and the educational authorities and if the political will exists, these issues can be addressed.

    Congratulations Womanofthehouse. You seem to have done a great job educating your children. Not every one has the competence or confidence to take on such an arduous challenge. However, homeschooling does not address what appears to be the decline in public education.

    What bizarre world do I live in?
    It’s called Australia mate, 100kmn south of Sydney in the rolling hills of the Southern Highlands.
    It’s a big country with only 20 million people. Australians have always had a belief in government providing services — roads, water, electricity and health. We too joined in the Reagan/ Thatcher revolution and our faith in Government to deliver services has been sorely tested lately.
    We are not a very religious country, traditional church attendence has been in decline for decades although 30% of high school students go to church schools — anglican and catholic schools provide ‘discipline’ — a nebulous notion that has rarely been defined. Private schools are subsidised by the federal Government.
    We are not a nation that cleaves on religious fault lines although we have done in the past — we have a home grown pentecostal movement and for now the numbers are small although they could be a bit of a worry in the future.
    Homeschooling is not an issue, yet.
    So, does that answer your question Todd?
    Handguns are illeagal. There is very little fear of getting shot and not much chance of getting knifed.

  • John C

    Todd, the past is another country.
    The modern economy requires 13 years of High School. That’s an awful lot of homeschooling.
    In making the decision to homeschool, parents have accepted one or more of the following propositions –
    the school provides an unsafe environment
    the curriculm content is ideologically unsound
    the school promotes a morally dubious value system
    public school teachers are either incompetent or ineffective
    These same concerns can be leveled at homeschoolers. The difference between homeschool and public school is that public schools are open to scrutiny from both parents and the educational authorities and if the political will exists, these issues can be addressed.

    Congratulations Womanofthehouse. You seem to have done a great job educating your children. Not every one has the competence or confidence to take on such an arduous challenge. However, homeschooling does not address what appears to be the decline in public education.

    What bizarre world do I live in?
    It’s called Australia mate, 100kmn south of Sydney in the rolling hills of the Southern Highlands.
    It’s a big country with only 20 million people. Australians have always had a belief in government providing services — roads, water, electricity and health. We too joined in the Reagan/ Thatcher revolution and our faith in Government to deliver services has been sorely tested lately.
    We are not a very religious country, traditional church attendence has been in decline for decades although 30% of high school students go to church schools — anglican and catholic schools provide ‘discipline’ — a nebulous notion that has rarely been defined. Private schools are subsidised by the federal Government.
    We are not a nation that cleaves on religious fault lines although we have done in the past — we have a home grown pentecostal movement and for now the numbers are small although they could be a bit of a worry in the future.
    Homeschooling is not an issue, yet.
    So, does that answer your question Todd?
    Handguns are illeagal. There is very little fear of getting shot and not much chance of getting knifed.


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