Will Republicans blow their big chance?

Tea partiers scored big in this week’s primary elections, defeating long-established Republican politicians with newcomers whose zeal exceeds their experience.  Now Democrats, just as they were getting resigned to a rout in November, are thinking that maybe they will do OK, that the Republican Tea Party candidates will be too extreme, too scary, or too unqualified to attract the larger public, who will instead be prudent and elect the Democrat.  See As the Tea Party Rises, Democrats See an Opening – WSJ.com.

What do you think of this analysis?

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • Carl Vehse

    Here, the WSJ uses “experience” as a euphemism for “being RINO.”
    And if there is a pinnacle of “too extreme,” “scary,” and “unqualified,” it is the traitorobama and his corruptocrats.

  • Carl Vehse

    Here, the WSJ uses “experience” as a euphemism for “being RINO.”
    And if there is a pinnacle of “too extreme,” “scary,” and “unqualified,” it is the traitorobama and his corruptocrats.

  • Tom Hering

    This election won’t be about anything but the economy, specifically, saving and creating jobs in the candidates’ home states. Every other issue is on hold until 2012.

  • Tom Hering

    This election won’t be about anything but the economy, specifically, saving and creating jobs in the candidates’ home states. Every other issue is on hold until 2012.

  • Winston Smith

    The President’s party always suffers in mid-term Congressional elections, and voters angry about the economy will surely take out their frustrations on the Democrats. Tea Party candidates who rail against the Establishment will do well.

    Once those Tea Partiers make it to Washington, however, they will, like their “Contract with America” predecessors in 1994, quickly become part of the status quo. They will govern like Democrats-lite. Nothing will change.

  • Winston Smith

    The President’s party always suffers in mid-term Congressional elections, and voters angry about the economy will surely take out their frustrations on the Democrats. Tea Party candidates who rail against the Establishment will do well.

    Once those Tea Partiers make it to Washington, however, they will, like their “Contract with America” predecessors in 1994, quickly become part of the status quo. They will govern like Democrats-lite. Nothing will change.

  • larry

    I fear what Winston said will become reality, though I hope not.

    I don’t think, back to the post, this is hurting. I live in a heavy dem. state and not all dem. are liberal, many are strong conserv. and like tea party. many themselves have been held hostage to their lib. counter parts.

    Done right this could be a merger of conserv. sans partly lines at least at the layman level. It would be nice to see it embolden cons. dem., though I realize in most cases such is “rare as hen’s teeth”.

  • larry

    I fear what Winston said will become reality, though I hope not.

    I don’t think, back to the post, this is hurting. I live in a heavy dem. state and not all dem. are liberal, many are strong conserv. and like tea party. many themselves have been held hostage to their lib. counter parts.

    Done right this could be a merger of conserv. sans partly lines at least at the layman level. It would be nice to see it embolden cons. dem., though I realize in most cases such is “rare as hen’s teeth”.

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in 21st Century

    I am jaded enough to believe that anybody labeled as a tea partier that can win is a person who will say anything to win. However, I think the democrats are making a big mistake.

    I don’t think they realize exactly how strong the anti incumbent feelings go right now. People have been increasingly not happy with the way things have been for the past 50 odd years, and the latest round of ill advised policy decisions have increased a desire to kick the bums out. They don’t realize that their “well intentioned” power plays have not bought them votes as they would in the past. I don’t think we are to the point that the Brits are at, but we are getting closer. I’ll be honest I am hoping for in the deadlocked legislature and executive branches. As far as I am concerned gridlock is good and the economy might just recover more quickly without the interference.

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in 21st Century

    I am jaded enough to believe that anybody labeled as a tea partier that can win is a person who will say anything to win. However, I think the democrats are making a big mistake.

    I don’t think they realize exactly how strong the anti incumbent feelings go right now. People have been increasingly not happy with the way things have been for the past 50 odd years, and the latest round of ill advised policy decisions have increased a desire to kick the bums out. They don’t realize that their “well intentioned” power plays have not bought them votes as they would in the past. I don’t think we are to the point that the Brits are at, but we are getting closer. I’ll be honest I am hoping for in the deadlocked legislature and executive branches. As far as I am concerned gridlock is good and the economy might just recover more quickly without the interference.

  • Joe

    “As far as I am concerned gridlock is good and the economy might just recover more quickly without the interference.”

    I always prefer gridlock.

  • Joe

    “As far as I am concerned gridlock is good and the economy might just recover more quickly without the interference.”

    I always prefer gridlock.

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    At this point, gridlock just lets us coast toward the cliff, instead of accelerate toward it. We need to get this train into reverse!

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    At this point, gridlock just lets us coast toward the cliff, instead of accelerate toward it. We need to get this train into reverse!

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in 21st Century

    Honestly, I think sliding off the cliff is going to be what it takes. However, coasting towards the cliff gives us more time to wake up.

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in 21st Century

    Honestly, I think sliding off the cliff is going to be what it takes. However, coasting towards the cliff gives us more time to wake up.

  • Bryan Lindemood

    I agree with DLiTFC #8. I’m fearful for our future of what we have built as a culture and a nation and would encourage Christians to pray for courage and mercy from the Lord and for us to extend the same to those who will need it. I also hope we are given the time, but know that its not guaranteed. Lord, have mercy.

  • Bryan Lindemood

    I agree with DLiTFC #8. I’m fearful for our future of what we have built as a culture and a nation and would encourage Christians to pray for courage and mercy from the Lord and for us to extend the same to those who will need it. I also hope we are given the time, but know that its not guaranteed. Lord, have mercy.

  • The Jones

    I think that on the whole, the TEA party will not hinder the GOP in any significant way. It will, broadly speaking, probably contribute significantly to turnout and all. Here and there, you may find places where a TEA party candidate is a little too excentric and makes the party lose. I’m thinking of Delaware and O’Donnell. But Delaware is less about extreme ideology and more about the fact that O’Donnell has a strange way of striking those who would probably be some of her most influential friends (I’m thinking of Karl Rove). She’s just not a very skilled candidate, but she’s got the right endorsements.

    On the whole, you’re going to get a wave of new Republicans in Congress. And on the whole, those Republicans are going to be more conservative than the regular elected official. Even though establishment republicans can set the agenda and have considerable influence in Washington, a conservative effect will be felt. Sure the establishment guys are going to try to steer back to whatever they want to do, and in the absence of any real serious elected leaders in that movement, I imagine that’s going to be what happens. But when the wind blows, the wind blows. And right now, the TEA party’s wind is blowing more than anything else.

  • The Jones

    I think that on the whole, the TEA party will not hinder the GOP in any significant way. It will, broadly speaking, probably contribute significantly to turnout and all. Here and there, you may find places where a TEA party candidate is a little too excentric and makes the party lose. I’m thinking of Delaware and O’Donnell. But Delaware is less about extreme ideology and more about the fact that O’Donnell has a strange way of striking those who would probably be some of her most influential friends (I’m thinking of Karl Rove). She’s just not a very skilled candidate, but she’s got the right endorsements.

    On the whole, you’re going to get a wave of new Republicans in Congress. And on the whole, those Republicans are going to be more conservative than the regular elected official. Even though establishment republicans can set the agenda and have considerable influence in Washington, a conservative effect will be felt. Sure the establishment guys are going to try to steer back to whatever they want to do, and in the absence of any real serious elected leaders in that movement, I imagine that’s going to be what happens. But when the wind blows, the wind blows. And right now, the TEA party’s wind is blowing more than anything else.

  • DonS

    I had mixed feelings about the Delaware primary until I saw the aftermath of the election there. Not only did Mike Castle refuse to be gracious to or endorse the candidate who beat him fair and square, but you saw “Republican” leadership writing the Democratic campaign commercials for the general election. When the RINO candidates Crist and Murkowski lost in FL and AK, respectively, they were such poor sports that Crist is running as an independent and Murkowski refuses to rule a write-in candidacy out. RINO’s are always the first to assert that we need to “unify” for the sake of party, but then they are typically the ones who refuse to do so when they lose.

    There is a lot of energy in the Tea Party movement this year. If we are to have any hope at all of changing the paradigm from tax and spend and entitle and tax and spend, prior to us running over the cliff, we need a large group of these new “inexperienced” (read “not yet corrupted”) candidates in D. C. Democrats-lite are not going to help, and will just further tarnish the Republican brand with the same taint as that attached to free-spending and taxing Democrats.

    So, if the Tea Party candidates cannot win, I would rather the Democrats retain power and take us over the cliff alone. Let them bear the blame and the costs, and hopefully be repudiated forever. It’s too bad, however, that they will leave such human suffering and hardship in their profligate wake.

  • DonS

    I had mixed feelings about the Delaware primary until I saw the aftermath of the election there. Not only did Mike Castle refuse to be gracious to or endorse the candidate who beat him fair and square, but you saw “Republican” leadership writing the Democratic campaign commercials for the general election. When the RINO candidates Crist and Murkowski lost in FL and AK, respectively, they were such poor sports that Crist is running as an independent and Murkowski refuses to rule a write-in candidacy out. RINO’s are always the first to assert that we need to “unify” for the sake of party, but then they are typically the ones who refuse to do so when they lose.

    There is a lot of energy in the Tea Party movement this year. If we are to have any hope at all of changing the paradigm from tax and spend and entitle and tax and spend, prior to us running over the cliff, we need a large group of these new “inexperienced” (read “not yet corrupted”) candidates in D. C. Democrats-lite are not going to help, and will just further tarnish the Republican brand with the same taint as that attached to free-spending and taxing Democrats.

    So, if the Tea Party candidates cannot win, I would rather the Democrats retain power and take us over the cliff alone. Let them bear the blame and the costs, and hopefully be repudiated forever. It’s too bad, however, that they will leave such human suffering and hardship in their profligate wake.

  • DonS

    Mark: The tenor of your previous posts compels me to think that you would rather make a snarky comment than engage in substantive discussion. However, to give you the benefit of the doubt, the human suffering and hardship I was referring to is that which will be caused by the inevitable cliff plunge that is ahead if we do not manage our budget and entitlements in a sustainable way. As you know, or should know, CBO and other neutral estimates all agree that we have an ever spiraling national debt to contend with, and no plan to manage it. Ultimately, we will be unable to service that debt, and either at or prior to that time, our debtors will be no longer willing or able to extend credit. The house of cards is falling. We can deal with this fact responsibly now, or just let the chips fall where they may later.

  • DonS

    Mark: The tenor of your previous posts compels me to think that you would rather make a snarky comment than engage in substantive discussion. However, to give you the benefit of the doubt, the human suffering and hardship I was referring to is that which will be caused by the inevitable cliff plunge that is ahead if we do not manage our budget and entitlements in a sustainable way. As you know, or should know, CBO and other neutral estimates all agree that we have an ever spiraling national debt to contend with, and no plan to manage it. Ultimately, we will be unable to service that debt, and either at or prior to that time, our debtors will be no longer willing or able to extend credit. The house of cards is falling. We can deal with this fact responsibly now, or just let the chips fall where they may later.

  • libertas

    I would rather have 40 tea party “radicals” in the senate blocking legislation than 60 mainstream Republicans creating it.

  • libertas

    I would rather have 40 tea party “radicals” in the senate blocking legislation than 60 mainstream Republicans creating it.

  • Porcell

    Truth to be told, the Tea Party movement augurs the revolution that Codevilla predicted with the rise of the country party. Sure, in all revolutions a few hotheads get out of control, as did Sam Adams who was appropriately shoved aside.

    The polls indicate that a large and growing majority has had it with the political class including the RINOs. The jig is up for what Jonah Goldberg accurately termed in his bok the liberal/progressive fascists. Even the New York Times and the Washington Post are feeling the effect of this both politically and financially.

    In a democracy the people are a tremendous thing whether you’re a big spending politician or a sodomite. The liberal ruling class and the RINOs are in the process of being taken to the woodshed. A few Republican Tea Party enthusiasts might lose, though by and large this will have been in a good cause.

    Pay scant attention to the effect this public shock and awe has had on the political class and their media sycophants and enjoy the well deserved humiliation of the liberal ruling class. Obama can wring his soft hands and talk at a swishy San Francisco event about American folk who “cling to religion and guns,” though he too is in the process of being royally dispatched.

  • Porcell

    Truth to be told, the Tea Party movement augurs the revolution that Codevilla predicted with the rise of the country party. Sure, in all revolutions a few hotheads get out of control, as did Sam Adams who was appropriately shoved aside.

    The polls indicate that a large and growing majority has had it with the political class including the RINOs. The jig is up for what Jonah Goldberg accurately termed in his bok the liberal/progressive fascists. Even the New York Times and the Washington Post are feeling the effect of this both politically and financially.

    In a democracy the people are a tremendous thing whether you’re a big spending politician or a sodomite. The liberal ruling class and the RINOs are in the process of being taken to the woodshed. A few Republican Tea Party enthusiasts might lose, though by and large this will have been in a good cause.

    Pay scant attention to the effect this public shock and awe has had on the political class and their media sycophants and enjoy the well deserved humiliation of the liberal ruling class. Obama can wring his soft hands and talk at a swishy San Francisco event about American folk who “cling to religion and guns,” though he too is in the process of being royally dispatched.

  • http://theoldadam.wordpress.com Steve Martin

    “Will Republicans blow their big chance?”

    Probably.

    The Republicans are the ‘stupid party’.

    The Democrats are the ‘dangerous party’.

  • http://theoldadam.wordpress.com Steve Martin

    “Will Republicans blow their big chance?”

    Probably.

    The Republicans are the ‘stupid party’.

    The Democrats are the ‘dangerous party’.

  • Porcell

    The Republicans are the stupid party.

    Oh yes, the party of Lincoln, T, Roosevelt, Eeisenhower, and Reagan was really stupid. Such inane talk in itself is stupid.

  • Porcell

    The Republicans are the stupid party.

    Oh yes, the party of Lincoln, T, Roosevelt, Eeisenhower, and Reagan was really stupid. Such inane talk in itself is stupid.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    RINO. It’s a funny word. I’m willing to bet you that people using the word “RINO” couldn’t find more than a quarter of elected Republicans at the federal level that meet their qualifications for true Republicans. Which begs the question: if the overwhelming number of people with “(R)” after their name are Republicans “in name only”, perhaps the semantic issue isn’t with the politicians?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    RINO. It’s a funny word. I’m willing to bet you that people using the word “RINO” couldn’t find more than a quarter of elected Republicans at the federal level that meet their qualifications for true Republicans. Which begs the question: if the overwhelming number of people with “(R)” after their name are Republicans “in name only”, perhaps the semantic issue isn’t with the politicians?

  • Porcell

    Don’t kid yourself Todd, the true Republican party stands basically for limited national government on social and entitlement issues along with strong national defense and reasonable economic regulation.

    A majority of Republicans hold basically to this view; a rather small number of RINOS tend to cave to the liberals. Both the Tea Party people and most Republican Congressmen have the semantics quite right.

    You and your liberal buddies are the ones that can’t quite get it through your heads that the American people know what they’re about, including especially the semantics regarding liberal fascism.

  • Porcell

    Don’t kid yourself Todd, the true Republican party stands basically for limited national government on social and entitlement issues along with strong national defense and reasonable economic regulation.

    A majority of Republicans hold basically to this view; a rather small number of RINOS tend to cave to the liberals. Both the Tea Party people and most Republican Congressmen have the semantics quite right.

    You and your liberal buddies are the ones that can’t quite get it through your heads that the American people know what they’re about, including especially the semantics regarding liberal fascism.

  • Porcell

    For an incisive analysis of where the American people are at, read Victor Davis Hanson’s Rethinking George Bush: The American people are warming to Bush and cooling to his successor including:

    Bush now seems cool because he has played it cool. The more Obama and Biden have trashed him, the more silent and thus magnanimous he appears. Bush’s post-presidency is not like that of Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton — both of whom criticized their successors and hit the campaign trail — but similar to that of his father, who worked with, rather than harped about, Bill Clinton. That graciousness not only has helped George W. Bush in the polls but seems finally to have mellowed out Obama as well.

  • Porcell

    For an incisive analysis of where the American people are at, read Victor Davis Hanson’s Rethinking George Bush: The American people are warming to Bush and cooling to his successor including:

    Bush now seems cool because he has played it cool. The more Obama and Biden have trashed him, the more silent and thus magnanimous he appears. Bush’s post-presidency is not like that of Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton — both of whom criticized their successors and hit the campaign trail — but similar to that of his father, who worked with, rather than harped about, Bill Clinton. That graciousness not only has helped George W. Bush in the polls but seems finally to have mellowed out Obama as well.

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in 21st Century

    Porcell, have you seen the voting habits of Republican office holders? By your definition every single Republican in office, with rare exceptions, are RINOs and even the rare exceptions are RINOs in that they are libertarians who knew a person running under that label wouldn’t be elected. The Republicans in office are all about the expansion of Federal power, the only thing they differ on from Democrats is what they spend our money on.

    Until people lose faith in the secular god of the Federal government we are going to continue to see the expansion of Federal power and the nanny state, because the people are going to continue to look to the Feds to provide all good things be it access to health care or the creation of a legalist society mislabeled as Christian. Unfortunately to break this idolatry, we will likely have to experience a catastrophic failure of our government.

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in 21st Century

    Porcell, have you seen the voting habits of Republican office holders? By your definition every single Republican in office, with rare exceptions, are RINOs and even the rare exceptions are RINOs in that they are libertarians who knew a person running under that label wouldn’t be elected. The Republicans in office are all about the expansion of Federal power, the only thing they differ on from Democrats is what they spend our money on.

    Until people lose faith in the secular god of the Federal government we are going to continue to see the expansion of Federal power and the nanny state, because the people are going to continue to look to the Feds to provide all good things be it access to health care or the creation of a legalist society mislabeled as Christian. Unfortunately to break this idolatry, we will likely have to experience a catastrophic failure of our government.

  • Louis

    DRLit21C @ 21: An resounding Amen to your last paragraph.

  • Louis

    DRLit21C @ 21: An resounding Amen to your last paragraph.

  • Joe

    DR.L21C – I agree with you @ 21 whole heartedly. But, I do think it is more likely that the GOP can be reformed into a party of limited gov’t than the Democratic party.

  • Joe

    DR.L21C – I agree with you @ 21 whole heartedly. But, I do think it is more likely that the GOP can be reformed into a party of limited gov’t than the Democratic party.

  • Winston Smith

    Democrats and Republicans are two different-colored cows that give the same color milk.

    Whichever party dominates the upcoming election, in 2011-2012 there will be more deficit spending, more pork-barrel projects, more unconstitutional expansion of government, more infringement on civil liberties, more overseas military action without a firm conclusion, etc., etc.

    I wish I were wrong, but can you tell me that I am really that far wrong?

  • Winston Smith

    Democrats and Republicans are two different-colored cows that give the same color milk.

    Whichever party dominates the upcoming election, in 2011-2012 there will be more deficit spending, more pork-barrel projects, more unconstitutional expansion of government, more infringement on civil liberties, more overseas military action without a firm conclusion, etc., etc.

    I wish I were wrong, but can you tell me that I am really that far wrong?

  • http://carolmsblog.blogspot.com/ carol-Christian Soldier

    The R party needs a thorough cleaning –the progressive – socialists need to go!!–Back to the original intent Constitution -NOW!! No more LOTES ( lesser of two evils)….
    C-CS
    Pres. emeritus of a RWF chapter…
    who no longer calls herself a rebulican but- rather- a follower of the original intent CONSTITUTION

  • http://carolmsblog.blogspot.com/ carol-Christian Soldier

    The R party needs a thorough cleaning –the progressive – socialists need to go!!–Back to the original intent Constitution -NOW!! No more LOTES ( lesser of two evils)….
    C-CS
    Pres. emeritus of a RWF chapter…
    who no longer calls herself a rebulican but- rather- a follower of the original intent CONSTITUTION

  • Porcell

    We shall see, Winston. My view, after years of skepticism, is that the American people have awakened and that the politicians will have to pay attention. McCain recently learned that in Arizona. In my Congressional district in Massachusetts, a RINO fellow was defeated by a Tea Party candidate whom polls show running ahead of the Democrat. A few months ago in this sickly liberal state no one could believe this.

  • Porcell

    We shall see, Winston. My view, after years of skepticism, is that the American people have awakened and that the politicians will have to pay attention. McCain recently learned that in Arizona. In my Congressional district in Massachusetts, a RINO fellow was defeated by a Tea Party candidate whom polls show running ahead of the Democrat. A few months ago in this sickly liberal state no one could believe this.

  • DonS

    Winston, I often fear that you are right. That we have gone so far down the road to ruin that the special interests to whom the Democrats are completely in thrall, and to whom far too many Republicans are as well, combined with an inept and dishonest media, will not permit us to correct our course of action until we go over the precipice.

    But the patriot in me cannot see our great nation reduced to a debt-ridden, regulation-choked, bankrupt disaster. I believe this election marks the beginning of our last chance to begin to turn things around short of in the context of a response to disaster. I pray that we will have enough principled politicians in Congress next session to do what is right.

  • DonS

    Winston, I often fear that you are right. That we have gone so far down the road to ruin that the special interests to whom the Democrats are completely in thrall, and to whom far too many Republicans are as well, combined with an inept and dishonest media, will not permit us to correct our course of action until we go over the precipice.

    But the patriot in me cannot see our great nation reduced to a debt-ridden, regulation-choked, bankrupt disaster. I believe this election marks the beginning of our last chance to begin to turn things around short of in the context of a response to disaster. I pray that we will have enough principled politicians in Congress next session to do what is right.

  • Porcell

    Along with the Tea Party pizzaz, some astute young Republicans, Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan, and Kevin McCarthy are putting together The Contract of 2010 that will be made public in a couple of weeks. Here is an excerpt of their thinking as reported by Rich Lowry:

    Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan, and Kevin McCarthy, dropped by NR’s offices yesterday for a spirited, very enjoyable discussion. They were here to promote their new book, Young Guns: A New Generation of Conservative Leaders. We’ll have more from the conversation in a while, but wanted to highlight what McCarthy said about the “America Speaking Out” effort, which he leads and is creating the Contract-like document Republicans will unveil in a couple of weeks. It’s clearly going to be an incrementalist document focusing on opposition to basic Obama administration initiatives, on measures aimed at small business, on rolling back discretionary spending, on process reforms, and on competitiveness. Relatively small beer? Absolutely, but so was the first Contract. Part of the idea is to give Republicans a starter’s kit for governing if they take the majority.

    These hard-headed people learned how the Republicans failed with 1994 Contract and are capable of reducing Tea Party ideals to realistic reform and shepherding it through Congress. Even if Obama lacks the sense to work with these people, the stage will be set to elect a Republican president in 2012.

  • Porcell

    Along with the Tea Party pizzaz, some astute young Republicans, Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan, and Kevin McCarthy are putting together The Contract of 2010 that will be made public in a couple of weeks. Here is an excerpt of their thinking as reported by Rich Lowry:

    Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan, and Kevin McCarthy, dropped by NR’s offices yesterday for a spirited, very enjoyable discussion. They were here to promote their new book, Young Guns: A New Generation of Conservative Leaders. We’ll have more from the conversation in a while, but wanted to highlight what McCarthy said about the “America Speaking Out” effort, which he leads and is creating the Contract-like document Republicans will unveil in a couple of weeks. It’s clearly going to be an incrementalist document focusing on opposition to basic Obama administration initiatives, on measures aimed at small business, on rolling back discretionary spending, on process reforms, and on competitiveness. Relatively small beer? Absolutely, but so was the first Contract. Part of the idea is to give Republicans a starter’s kit for governing if they take the majority.

    These hard-headed people learned how the Republicans failed with 1994 Contract and are capable of reducing Tea Party ideals to realistic reform and shepherding it through Congress. Even if Obama lacks the sense to work with these people, the stage will be set to elect a Republican president in 2012.

  • Tom Hering

    Republicans should stay on their meds while campaigning.

    (A “must click” if you haven’t seen it yet. :-) )

  • Tom Hering

    Republicans should stay on their meds while campaigning.

    (A “must click” if you haven’t seen it yet. :-) )

  • Louis

    Well, just today, on another website, the following comment came up. I’ll put it out there, and see what follows…. ;)

    I think “just do what the Constitution says!” appeals to a lot of the same people who don’t see the application problem of “just do what the Bible says!” It sounds pretty awesome as a rallying cry, but in the nitty-gritty, it’s a lot more complex than that. It usually turns out to be more “just do what [I think] the Constitution/Bible means!”

  • Louis

    Well, just today, on another website, the following comment came up. I’ll put it out there, and see what follows…. ;)

    I think “just do what the Constitution says!” appeals to a lot of the same people who don’t see the application problem of “just do what the Bible says!” It sounds pretty awesome as a rallying cry, but in the nitty-gritty, it’s a lot more complex than that. It usually turns out to be more “just do what [I think] the Constitution/Bible means!”

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Vote Republican in 2010! For hope! And change! This time! For reals!

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Vote Republican in 2010! For hope! And change! This time! For reals!

  • Porcell

    Todd, at 31, Unless you meant this facetiously, I shall take it at face value and revise my view that you are doctrinaire liberal.

  • Porcell

    Todd, at 31, Unless you meant this facetiously, I shall take it at face value and revise my view that you are doctrinaire liberal.

  • Porcell

    Peggy Noonan has an article today, Why It’s Time for the Tea Party The populist movement is more a critique of the GOP than a wing of it. that that directly answers the question that Veith raised on this thread including:

    Nobody knows how all this will play out, but we are seeing something big—something homegrown, broad-based and independent. In part it is a rising up of those who truly believe America is imperiled and truly mean to save her. The dangers, both present and potential, are obvious. A movement like this can help a nation by acting as a corrective, or it can descend into a corrosive populism that celebrates unknowingness as authenticity, that confuses showiness with seriousness and vulgarity with true conviction. Parts could become swept by a desire just to tear down, to destroy. But establishments exist for a reason. It is true that the party establishment is compromised, and by many things, but one of them is experience. They’ve lived through a lot, seen a lot, know the national terrain. They know how things work. They know the history. I wonder if Tea Party members know how fragile are the institutions that help keep the country together.

    Noonan in the fall of 2008 was writing harebrained encomiums to Obama; I had given up her; this article redeems her.

  • Porcell

    Peggy Noonan has an article today, Why It’s Time for the Tea Party The populist movement is more a critique of the GOP than a wing of it. that that directly answers the question that Veith raised on this thread including:

    Nobody knows how all this will play out, but we are seeing something big—something homegrown, broad-based and independent. In part it is a rising up of those who truly believe America is imperiled and truly mean to save her. The dangers, both present and potential, are obvious. A movement like this can help a nation by acting as a corrective, or it can descend into a corrosive populism that celebrates unknowingness as authenticity, that confuses showiness with seriousness and vulgarity with true conviction. Parts could become swept by a desire just to tear down, to destroy. But establishments exist for a reason. It is true that the party establishment is compromised, and by many things, but one of them is experience. They’ve lived through a lot, seen a lot, know the national terrain. They know how things work. They know the history. I wonder if Tea Party members know how fragile are the institutions that help keep the country together.

    Noonan in the fall of 2008 was writing harebrained encomiums to Obama; I had given up her; this article redeems her.

  • Tom Hering

    “The populist movement.” – Peggy Noonan.

    If the Tea Party is becoming powerful, it’s only because the powerful are behind it. That’s the way the world works.

  • Tom Hering

    “The populist movement.” – Peggy Noonan.

    If the Tea Party is becoming powerful, it’s only because the powerful are behind it. That’s the way the world works.

  • Porcell

    Tom, don’t kid yourself, the Tea Party movement is a genuine populist uprising that has been working its fuel toward the surface for years. Obama touched a match to it with his radical spending policy and lack of back bone in dealing with the domestic jihadi Islamics.

    Libertarians, including the Kochs, are, of course, delighted with the Tea Party and have found ways to support it. However, they hardly have the power to manipulate it behind the scenes. Many of the libertarians are reported to be shocked that many of the Tea Partiers, including Christine O’Donnell of Delaware, favor chastity before marriage, laws against abortion, and in favor of marriage between only men and women.

    It’s hardly surprising that The New Yorker, a died in the wool Leftist rag, would print this hatchet job on the Kochs. Now that the Tea Party has managed a genuine popular uprising without central leadership and shocked the Left, we’ll hear a lot more about the conspiracy of a powerful few capitalists who have gulled the naive Ameircan people.

  • Porcell

    Tom, don’t kid yourself, the Tea Party movement is a genuine populist uprising that has been working its fuel toward the surface for years. Obama touched a match to it with his radical spending policy and lack of back bone in dealing with the domestic jihadi Islamics.

    Libertarians, including the Kochs, are, of course, delighted with the Tea Party and have found ways to support it. However, they hardly have the power to manipulate it behind the scenes. Many of the libertarians are reported to be shocked that many of the Tea Partiers, including Christine O’Donnell of Delaware, favor chastity before marriage, laws against abortion, and in favor of marriage between only men and women.

    It’s hardly surprising that The New Yorker, a died in the wool Leftist rag, would print this hatchet job on the Kochs. Now that the Tea Party has managed a genuine popular uprising without central leadership and shocked the Left, we’ll hear a lot more about the conspiracy of a powerful few capitalists who have gulled the naive Ameircan people.

  • Winston Smith

    Tom @ 34 is right. If the mainstream media are giving it lots of play, and mainstream figures like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck are gettign involved, you can be sure the T.P. is under Establishment control.

    Compare that to a movement that is genuinely independent, like the Libertarian Party or the Constitution Party. If they will not be co-opted into one of the two major parties, they are allowed to score their two percent or so of the vote and continue in irrelevance. Groups that ask hard questions and threaten to rattle the Establishment to its foundations by expressing politically incorrect opinions, like the 9/11 Truthers, are either ignored or ridiculed.

  • Winston Smith

    Tom @ 34 is right. If the mainstream media are giving it lots of play, and mainstream figures like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck are gettign involved, you can be sure the T.P. is under Establishment control.

    Compare that to a movement that is genuinely independent, like the Libertarian Party or the Constitution Party. If they will not be co-opted into one of the two major parties, they are allowed to score their two percent or so of the vote and continue in irrelevance. Groups that ask hard questions and threaten to rattle the Establishment to its foundations by expressing politically incorrect opinions, like the 9/11 Truthers, are either ignored or ridiculed.

  • Porcell

    Winston, for a short video discussion of the grass roots nature of the Tea Party by a bright National Journal pundit, Jonathan Rauch, see How Tea Party Organizes Without Leaders
    BY EMBRACING RADICAL DECENTRALIZATION, TEA PARTY ACTIVISTS INTEND TO REWRITE THE RULE BOOK FOR POLITICAL ORGANIZING.

    Some people, including Palin and Beck influence as well as use the Tea Party, though it is well established now as a grass roots movement without central leadership. This is a radically new political ballgame.

  • Porcell

    Winston, for a short video discussion of the grass roots nature of the Tea Party by a bright National Journal pundit, Jonathan Rauch, see How Tea Party Organizes Without Leaders
    BY EMBRACING RADICAL DECENTRALIZATION, TEA PARTY ACTIVISTS INTEND TO REWRITE THE RULE BOOK FOR POLITICAL ORGANIZING.

    Some people, including Palin and Beck influence as well as use the Tea Party, though it is well established now as a grass roots movement without central leadership. This is a radically new political ballgame.

  • Porcell

    Sorry, the link is Here.

  • Porcell

    Sorry, the link is Here.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    “This is a radically new political ballgame.” Oh yes. Every bit as radical and different as the new ballgame we got in 2008!

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    “This is a radically new political ballgame.” Oh yes. Every bit as radical and different as the new ballgame we got in 2008!

  • Porcell

    Todd, the left liberals thought they were in a new ballgame in 2008; consequently Obama, Pelosi, Reid, et al indulged themselves in radical politics that inspired a justifiably furious reaction. Should you doubt this have alook at Jim Geraghty’s NRO piece today, The Rout Is On. including:

    At this point, the story of the election is the number of statewide races that were supposed to be competitive that aren’t. This morning’s poll in Ohio suggests that Ohio’s Senate race isn’t going to be all that competitive, and neither is the governor’s race. In Pennsylvania, Patrick Toomey leads by a bunch and Tom Corbett leads by a bunch more. Democrats will not be able to translate the Mark Sanford scandal into any serious traction in South Carolina’s governor’s race, and in that state’s Senate race . . . well, you know.

    I daresay this Tea Party movement is a far better bellwether than 2008. The American people are not interested in being involved in a fiscally disastrous nanny state run by an incompetent president and Congress.

    I take it at 31 you were being facetious.

  • Porcell

    Todd, the left liberals thought they were in a new ballgame in 2008; consequently Obama, Pelosi, Reid, et al indulged themselves in radical politics that inspired a justifiably furious reaction. Should you doubt this have alook at Jim Geraghty’s NRO piece today, The Rout Is On. including:

    At this point, the story of the election is the number of statewide races that were supposed to be competitive that aren’t. This morning’s poll in Ohio suggests that Ohio’s Senate race isn’t going to be all that competitive, and neither is the governor’s race. In Pennsylvania, Patrick Toomey leads by a bunch and Tom Corbett leads by a bunch more. Democrats will not be able to translate the Mark Sanford scandal into any serious traction in South Carolina’s governor’s race, and in that state’s Senate race . . . well, you know.

    I daresay this Tea Party movement is a far better bellwether than 2008. The American people are not interested in being involved in a fiscally disastrous nanny state run by an incompetent president and Congress.

    I take it at 31 you were being facetious.

  • The Jungle Cat

    As Jay Cost pointed out, Castle was no RINO. He probably would have voted for the repeal of Obamacare, would have opposed federal tax dollars funding abortion, and would have voted for a John Roberts or Samuel Alito. The next Democratic senator from Delaware most certainly will not. In Delaware the Tea Party would settle for no less than everything, and, therefore, will end up with nothing. (On the other hand, they may have gotten less than what they bargained for even; O’Donnell’s a conservative, but I doubt her convictions are particularly deep; if they were, she would not have spent three years suing one of the nation’s premier conservative institutions in a trumped-up lawsuit.)

  • The Jungle Cat

    As Jay Cost pointed out, Castle was no RINO. He probably would have voted for the repeal of Obamacare, would have opposed federal tax dollars funding abortion, and would have voted for a John Roberts or Samuel Alito. The next Democratic senator from Delaware most certainly will not. In Delaware the Tea Party would settle for no less than everything, and, therefore, will end up with nothing. (On the other hand, they may have gotten less than what they bargained for even; O’Donnell’s a conservative, but I doubt her convictions are particularly deep; if they were, she would not have spent three years suing one of the nation’s premier conservative institutions in a trumped-up lawsuit.)

  • helen

    “Vote Republican in 2010! For hope! And change! This time! For reals!”

    “Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss”

    The people who appear to be “sickest” of taxes are those whose taxes are [proportionate to income] least of all of us/those who got the biggest breaks from the “Bush tax cuts”/those who destroy the economy and get obscenely rich doing it.
    If the Tea Party is “populist”, it’s a veneer of poor suckers being used by the elite to consolidate their gains.

  • helen

    “Vote Republican in 2010! For hope! And change! This time! For reals!”

    “Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss”

    The people who appear to be “sickest” of taxes are those whose taxes are [proportionate to income] least of all of us/those who got the biggest breaks from the “Bush tax cuts”/those who destroy the economy and get obscenely rich doing it.
    If the Tea Party is “populist”, it’s a veneer of poor suckers being used by the elite to consolidate their gains.

  • Tom Hering

    Helen, I think you’ve got it right. The roots of the Tea Party, in the Ron Paul campaign, were genuinely populist and spontaneous. (But not leaderless. The leaders simply weren’t public figures.) Since the end of the Paul campaign, however, the Tea Party has been the puppet show of the powerful – primarily Murdoch and the Koch brothers. The GOP, on the other hand, just wishes it could pull the Tea Party’s strings.

    It’s really all about a few far-right fat cats taking over the GOP. The Tea Party “movement” is a means to that end.

  • Tom Hering

    Helen, I think you’ve got it right. The roots of the Tea Party, in the Ron Paul campaign, were genuinely populist and spontaneous. (But not leaderless. The leaders simply weren’t public figures.) Since the end of the Paul campaign, however, the Tea Party has been the puppet show of the powerful – primarily Murdoch and the Koch brothers. The GOP, on the other hand, just wishes it could pull the Tea Party’s strings.

    It’s really all about a few far-right fat cats taking over the GOP. The Tea Party “movement” is a means to that end.

  • helen

    I daresay this Tea Party movement is a far better bellwether than 2008. The American people are not interested in being involved in a fiscally disastrous nanny state run by an incompetent president and Congress.

    Most of the American people have not lived under anything else.

    The “cream” keeps rising to the top (and as long as the jobs keep moving overseas, with US subsidy even, it will). The mass of men will desparately look for change with every election. And get “pocket change” while the profits of their labor go elsewhere.

    One of the most “fiscally disastrous” things recently was the ‘Bush tax cuts’ in the middle of two wars that the country was borrowing money to pay for. So we are voluntarily in thrall to a communist government!
    Another was selling mortgages guaranteed by the federal government to people who had NO equity and NO reason not to walk away. That policy dates back to Clinton, so both parties are guilty of looting the savers to create Madoxes out of a few.
    Think about it! Why is Madox the ultimate villain while AIG and other gold plated Wall Street firms are bailed out? Madox ripped off his own, which is his chief sin. Wall Street ripped off the rest of us, which is apparently no crime, but even an entitlement to bonuses!
    A new Republican administration (Tea Party or other) is going to change that?

  • helen

    I daresay this Tea Party movement is a far better bellwether than 2008. The American people are not interested in being involved in a fiscally disastrous nanny state run by an incompetent president and Congress.

    Most of the American people have not lived under anything else.

    The “cream” keeps rising to the top (and as long as the jobs keep moving overseas, with US subsidy even, it will). The mass of men will desparately look for change with every election. And get “pocket change” while the profits of their labor go elsewhere.

    One of the most “fiscally disastrous” things recently was the ‘Bush tax cuts’ in the middle of two wars that the country was borrowing money to pay for. So we are voluntarily in thrall to a communist government!
    Another was selling mortgages guaranteed by the federal government to people who had NO equity and NO reason not to walk away. That policy dates back to Clinton, so both parties are guilty of looting the savers to create Madoxes out of a few.
    Think about it! Why is Madox the ultimate villain while AIG and other gold plated Wall Street firms are bailed out? Madox ripped off his own, which is his chief sin. Wall Street ripped off the rest of us, which is apparently no crime, but even an entitlement to bonuses!
    A new Republican administration (Tea Party or other) is going to change that?

  • helen

    When it comes down to the ballot, I cannot vote for a pro abortion candidate.
    That pretty well eliminates the Democrats.

    What that means to me about the Texas governor’s election… with a Republican candidate scarfing up hundreds of thousands of dollars from each member of the Board of Regents while the university destroys itself to stay within the governor’s budget, I haven’t figured out yet. NOTA, perhaps!
    Futile, but so is everything else, it seems.
    [I've been the Ron Paul route. Futile.]

  • helen

    When it comes down to the ballot, I cannot vote for a pro abortion candidate.
    That pretty well eliminates the Democrats.

    What that means to me about the Texas governor’s election… with a Republican candidate scarfing up hundreds of thousands of dollars from each member of the Board of Regents while the university destroys itself to stay within the governor’s budget, I haven’t figured out yet. NOTA, perhaps!
    Futile, but so is everything else, it seems.
    [I've been the Ron Paul route. Futile.]

  • Tom Hering

    There is hope for America, however, in the “Million Moderates March” and the “Keep Fear Alive” counter-rally. :-) :-) :-)

  • Tom Hering

    There is hope for America, however, in the “Million Moderates March” and the “Keep Fear Alive” counter-rally. :-) :-) :-)

  • Porcell

    Peggy Noonan today has a perceptive article in the WSJ, Why It’s Time for the Tea Party
    The populist movement is more a critique of the GOP than a wing of it.
    .

    The salient paragraphs in the article are:

    But at this moment we are witnessing a shift that will likely have some enduring political impact. Another way of saying that: The past few years, a lot of people in politics have wondered about the possibility of a third party. Would it be possible to organize one? While they were wondering, a virtual third party was being born. And nobody organized it.

    Here is Jonathan Rauch in National Journal on the tea party’s innovative, broad-based network: “In the expansive dominion of the Tea Party Patriots, which extends to thousands of local groups and literally countless activists,” there is no chain of command, no hierarchy. Individuals “move the movement.” Popular issues gain traction and are emphasized, unpopular ones die. “In American politics, radical decentralization has never been tried on such a large scale.”

    Tocqueville warned that the soft despotism of individuals in a democracy would allow a sort of dangerous tyranny that has in fact happened with the nanny state that the liberals have created. Fortunately, Americans , most of whom are descended from pioneer stock, are just now engaged in a deep-rooted movement to return to at least a semblance of their roots. The left-liberals, made up mainly of self-serving big government nanny-state advocates, are in the process of being handed a royal defeat by the American people who appear to have recovered some backbone.

  • Porcell

    Peggy Noonan today has a perceptive article in the WSJ, Why It’s Time for the Tea Party
    The populist movement is more a critique of the GOP than a wing of it.
    .

    The salient paragraphs in the article are:

    But at this moment we are witnessing a shift that will likely have some enduring political impact. Another way of saying that: The past few years, a lot of people in politics have wondered about the possibility of a third party. Would it be possible to organize one? While they were wondering, a virtual third party was being born. And nobody organized it.

    Here is Jonathan Rauch in National Journal on the tea party’s innovative, broad-based network: “In the expansive dominion of the Tea Party Patriots, which extends to thousands of local groups and literally countless activists,” there is no chain of command, no hierarchy. Individuals “move the movement.” Popular issues gain traction and are emphasized, unpopular ones die. “In American politics, radical decentralization has never been tried on such a large scale.”

    Tocqueville warned that the soft despotism of individuals in a democracy would allow a sort of dangerous tyranny that has in fact happened with the nanny state that the liberals have created. Fortunately, Americans , most of whom are descended from pioneer stock, are just now engaged in a deep-rooted movement to return to at least a semblance of their roots. The left-liberals, made up mainly of self-serving big government nanny-state advocates, are in the process of being handed a royal defeat by the American people who appear to have recovered some backbone.

  • Tom Hering

    The future of America is a land filled, from coast to coast, with sunburned homesteaders? Stopping in the middle of their hard day’s work – tricorn hats tipped back – to gaze upon their fields of corn and wheat? Will they all be Roman Catholic, too, Porcell? Ah! Utopia! ;-)

  • Tom Hering

    The future of America is a land filled, from coast to coast, with sunburned homesteaders? Stopping in the middle of their hard day’s work – tricorn hats tipped back – to gaze upon their fields of corn and wheat? Will they all be Roman Catholic, too, Porcell? Ah! Utopia! ;-)

  • Porcell

    Tom, Many, of the Tea Party folk are indeed Catholics who have had it with sentimental, Protestant pietism. Christine O’Donnell, a devout Catholic is one, she who favors abstinence, is pro-life, pro marriage between men and women, to say nothing of mainline Protestant liberalism. These people have withstood Protestant prejudice for years.

  • Porcell

    Tom, Many, of the Tea Party folk are indeed Catholics who have had it with sentimental, Protestant pietism. Christine O’Donnell, a devout Catholic is one, she who favors abstinence, is pro-life, pro marriage between men and women, to say nothing of mainline Protestant liberalism. These people have withstood Protestant prejudice for years.

  • Porcell

    While, I’m at it Tom, you would do well to respect the considerable contribution that devout Catholics make to America, rather than casting sniveling aspersions about them. Your view is basically that of a small-minded Protestant lacking in any sort of decent urbanity. I’ll fight you on this issue ’till the cows come home.

  • Porcell

    While, I’m at it Tom, you would do well to respect the considerable contribution that devout Catholics make to America, rather than casting sniveling aspersions about them. Your view is basically that of a small-minded Protestant lacking in any sort of decent urbanity. I’ll fight you on this issue ’till the cows come home.

  • Tom Hering

    Porcell, I was just having some fun with the way you view certain religious and political groups in an overly-idealized way. So get mad at me for that – not for supposedly casting “sniveling aspersions.” Besides, I never snivel when I asperse. I snicker.

  • Tom Hering

    Porcell, I was just having some fun with the way you view certain religious and political groups in an overly-idealized way. So get mad at me for that – not for supposedly casting “sniveling aspersions.” Besides, I never snivel when I asperse. I snicker.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    ” By your definition every single Republican in office, with rare exceptions, are RINOs and even the rare exceptions are RINOs in that they are libertarians who knew a person running under that label wouldn’t be elected. The Republicans in office are all about the expansion of Federal power, the only thing they differ on from Democrats is what they spend our money on.”

    Not sure I understand. Ron Paul is a libertarian who runs as a Republican. He was against spending money on the wars and wants the repeal of Roe v. Wade so that the states can decide, votes against spending at every opportunity. I don’t think the other RINO’s are closet libertarians.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    ” By your definition every single Republican in office, with rare exceptions, are RINOs and even the rare exceptions are RINOs in that they are libertarians who knew a person running under that label wouldn’t be elected. The Republicans in office are all about the expansion of Federal power, the only thing they differ on from Democrats is what they spend our money on.”

    Not sure I understand. Ron Paul is a libertarian who runs as a Republican. He was against spending money on the wars and wants the repeal of Roe v. Wade so that the states can decide, votes against spending at every opportunity. I don’t think the other RINO’s are closet libertarians.

  • Porcell

    Tom, your narrow attitude and view toward Catholics is obvious. As to my overly idealized view of certain groups, that’s rather a matter of opinion, however pontifical.

  • Porcell

    Tom, your narrow attitude and view toward Catholics is obvious. As to my overly idealized view of certain groups, that’s rather a matter of opinion, however pontifical.

  • Tom Hering

    Well, at least we agree that being pontifical is not good.

  • Tom Hering

    Well, at least we agree that being pontifical is not good.


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