How Obama can win a second term

The crushing rebuke of the Democrats in the recent election by no means finishes Barack Obama.  He can easily win a second term by emulating the last Democratic President who likewise lost a midterm election but came back to win a second term.  Bill Clinton simply played along with the Republicans to the point of co-opting their positions.  Welfare reform was a Republican issue, but Clinton made it his own.  He also won the public’s sympathy.

President Obama could take upon himself the reduction of the deficit.  (Yes, he caused a big part of it, but that doesn’t have to matter politically.)  He could drastically cut corporate welfare, farm subsidies and the military, thus pleasing his left flank.  The Republicans would co-operate with his other cuts, such as eliminating  whole departments and highly-visible programs.  He could reform social security, perhaps by not letting rich people get it.  He could increase his popularity by just leaving Iraq and Afghanistan, while keeping up the drone assassinations.

I’m not saying he SHOULD do any of this.  I’m just describing what might be successful tactics.  What else could he do?

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • Matt Jamison

    If the Republicans can’t come up with a good candidate, Obama will win reelection. You can’t beat something with nothing.

    Case in point: George W. Bush was already very unpopular in 2004, but John Kerry was not a strong enough alternative.

  • Matt Jamison

    If the Republicans can’t come up with a good candidate, Obama will win reelection. You can’t beat something with nothing.

    Case in point: George W. Bush was already very unpopular in 2004, but John Kerry was not a strong enough alternative.

  • Eric Brown

    Actually, the if the Republicans don’t work with President Obama, he’s likely to be re-elected. Elections are always won by whoever gets the middle – and while the middle is frustrated with Congress, if they see the Republicans stiffelling the president, there will be a sympathy vote for him. This happened in 1996 and 1984, when Presidents dealing with difficult congresses received many more votes than their party received in Congress.

  • Eric Brown

    Actually, the if the Republicans don’t work with President Obama, he’s likely to be re-elected. Elections are always won by whoever gets the middle – and while the middle is frustrated with Congress, if they see the Republicans stiffelling the president, there will be a sympathy vote for him. This happened in 1996 and 1984, when Presidents dealing with difficult congresses received many more votes than their party received in Congress.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “He could drastically cut corporate welfare, farm subsidies and the military, thus pleasing his left flank.”

    No, that is part of his fundraising base.

    “The Republicans would co-operate with his other cuts, such as eliminating whole departments and highly-visible programs.”

    True. He would then take credit for the good part and blame the republicans for any problems. Effective strategy.

    “He could reform social security, perhaps by not letting rich people get it.”

    No, again, that is part of his base.

    “He could increase his popularity by just leaving Iraq and Afghanistan, while keeping up the drone assassinations.”

    That would improve his popularity with me but not enough to vote for him. His abortion position is far to extreme for me to vote for him.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “He could drastically cut corporate welfare, farm subsidies and the military, thus pleasing his left flank.”

    No, that is part of his fundraising base.

    “The Republicans would co-operate with his other cuts, such as eliminating whole departments and highly-visible programs.”

    True. He would then take credit for the good part and blame the republicans for any problems. Effective strategy.

    “He could reform social security, perhaps by not letting rich people get it.”

    No, again, that is part of his base.

    “He could increase his popularity by just leaving Iraq and Afghanistan, while keeping up the drone assassinations.”

    That would improve his popularity with me but not enough to vote for him. His abortion position is far to extreme for me to vote for him.

  • Larry

    Elections are never won by who gets in the middle or gets along the best, nor are they mostly won by strong ideals, they are won by tickling the ears of the voters about themselves, genuinely or disingenuiously.

    Ideals aside, right or left and whether genuine or just show aside, his BIGGEST mistake by far and large, it’s the same with Hillary (this even hurt both Bushes), is that he gives the appearance that the people work for him and not vice versa. The common factor between Reagan and Clinton, again base values and ideals aside, was that they always appealed to the people in that they served the people. That’s the biggest difference. A message that is more or less even sugar coated, “you are going to listen to me”, NEVER sells.

    The other big ticket item, his failure, one that the left more falls into with the exception of Bill Clinton who seems to be more crafty about this is that they down play and denigrate the American people. Again, whether genuine or not, appealing to the American people/voters, appealing to their egos works. It’s as old as sin its self. Bill Clinton saw this, others in his ranks don’t seem to get this.

    Basically if he can get Joel Olstean to advise him, a second term is in the bag.

  • Larry

    Elections are never won by who gets in the middle or gets along the best, nor are they mostly won by strong ideals, they are won by tickling the ears of the voters about themselves, genuinely or disingenuiously.

    Ideals aside, right or left and whether genuine or just show aside, his BIGGEST mistake by far and large, it’s the same with Hillary (this even hurt both Bushes), is that he gives the appearance that the people work for him and not vice versa. The common factor between Reagan and Clinton, again base values and ideals aside, was that they always appealed to the people in that they served the people. That’s the biggest difference. A message that is more or less even sugar coated, “you are going to listen to me”, NEVER sells.

    The other big ticket item, his failure, one that the left more falls into with the exception of Bill Clinton who seems to be more crafty about this is that they down play and denigrate the American people. Again, whether genuine or not, appealing to the American people/voters, appealing to their egos works. It’s as old as sin its self. Bill Clinton saw this, others in his ranks don’t seem to get this.

    Basically if he can get Joel Olstean to advise him, a second term is in the bag.

  • Tom Hering

    He could appear to reject his past as a Northern elitist, and pretend to be a born Texan. Then buy a ranch, and cut brush for photo ops. So he comes across as the kind of guy you’d want to have a beer with (but not in the White House garden). Oh, and he ought to stop talking so good. Mix up his words and phrases more. People like that.

  • Tom Hering

    He could appear to reject his past as a Northern elitist, and pretend to be a born Texan. Then buy a ranch, and cut brush for photo ops. So he comes across as the kind of guy you’d want to have a beer with (but not in the White House garden). Oh, and he ought to stop talking so good. Mix up his words and phrases more. People like that.

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    Part of the reason why Clinton was re-elected in 96 was his “triangulation” strategy. When welfare reform was pushed through Congress, he was dragged kicking and screaming into signing it. But when he saw the public approval for the measure, he turned it into “Yeah, it was my idea all along.”

    I don’t know whether or not Obama can swallow his pride and do that, though. He seems a little more clueless when it comes to things like this.

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    Part of the reason why Clinton was re-elected in 96 was his “triangulation” strategy. When welfare reform was pushed through Congress, he was dragged kicking and screaming into signing it. But when he saw the public approval for the measure, he turned it into “Yeah, it was my idea all along.”

    I don’t know whether or not Obama can swallow his pride and do that, though. He seems a little more clueless when it comes to things like this.

  • Rich Shipe

    He could find someone to run as an independent and get 8.4% of the vote. Obviously not all there was but we can’t lose track of the fact that Perot was a major factor in both of Clinton’s wins… especially the first.

  • Rich Shipe

    He could find someone to run as an independent and get 8.4% of the vote. Obviously not all there was but we can’t lose track of the fact that Perot was a major factor in both of Clinton’s wins… especially the first.

  • scots

    As long as he continues to not get it, his support will continue to erode (he will not be in touch with most Americans) and the chances for re-election will grow slimmer.

    I like the fact that he is not getting it. I hope it continues to be so.

  • scots

    As long as he continues to not get it, his support will continue to erode (he will not be in touch with most Americans) and the chances for re-election will grow slimmer.

    I like the fact that he is not getting it. I hope it continues to be so.

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in the 21st Century

    #5 – Obama already has Biden for that strategy.
    If the Republicans are smart they should put forward compromises that allow them to push toward a goal of driving down government spending and maybe actually truly reforming medical care, not the Pelosi/Reed Midnight Special. This will lead to Obama being a one term candidate because, I suspect Obama will not follow Clinton’s lead and adjust towards compromise. Obama, I think, is too much of an idealist to see compromises as being worth while.

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in the 21st Century

    #5 – Obama already has Biden for that strategy.
    If the Republicans are smart they should put forward compromises that allow them to push toward a goal of driving down government spending and maybe actually truly reforming medical care, not the Pelosi/Reed Midnight Special. This will lead to Obama being a one term candidate because, I suspect Obama will not follow Clinton’s lead and adjust towards compromise. Obama, I think, is too much of an idealist to see compromises as being worth while.

  • http://jdueck.net Joel

    Obama’s approval ratings are tracking almost exactly along with where Ronald Reagan’s were at this point under the same circumstances. (And Bill Clinton’s too, to a slightly lesser extent.)

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/presidential-approval-tracker.htm

  • http://jdueck.net Joel

    Obama’s approval ratings are tracking almost exactly along with where Ronald Reagan’s were at this point under the same circumstances. (And Bill Clinton’s too, to a slightly lesser extent.)

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/presidential-approval-tracker.htm

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    scots, though politically it can be “nice” that Obama doesn’t get it, think of our poor country as we learn the hard way why electing a guy with no real work history (and friends that ought to arouse suspicion) isn’t a terribly good idea. He makes Carter look competent and Clinton look honest in comparison.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    scots, though politically it can be “nice” that Obama doesn’t get it, think of our poor country as we learn the hard way why electing a guy with no real work history (and friends that ought to arouse suspicion) isn’t a terribly good idea. He makes Carter look competent and Clinton look honest in comparison.

  • Carl Vehse

    How Obama can win a second term?

    George Will gives his take in his column, “A recoil against liberalism“:

    Unwilling to delay until tomorrow mistakes that could be made immediately, Democrats used 2010 to begin losing 2012…. He [Barry] had defined himself as a world-class whiner even before Rahm Emanuel, a world-class flatterer, declared that Obama had dealt masterfully with “the toughest times any president has ever faced” – quite a claim, considering that before the first president from Illinois was even inaugurated, seven of the then-34 states had seceded. Today’s president from Illinois, a chronic campaigner and incontinent complainer who is uninhibited by considerations of presidential dignity, has blamed his difficulties on…

  • Carl Vehse

    How Obama can win a second term?

    George Will gives his take in his column, “A recoil against liberalism“:

    Unwilling to delay until tomorrow mistakes that could be made immediately, Democrats used 2010 to begin losing 2012…. He [Barry] had defined himself as a world-class whiner even before Rahm Emanuel, a world-class flatterer, declared that Obama had dealt masterfully with “the toughest times any president has ever faced” – quite a claim, considering that before the first president from Illinois was even inaugurated, seven of the then-34 states had seceded. Today’s president from Illinois, a chronic campaigner and incontinent complainer who is uninhibited by considerations of presidential dignity, has blamed his difficulties on…

  • DonS

    Actually, if the economy improves substantially between now and early 2012, he is more likely than not to be re-elected, as that is the historic norm. As Rich points out, above, the only reason Bush 41 was not re-elected was because of Perot’s third party candidacy. Otherwise, you have to go back to Jimmy Carter and his failed candidacy in 1980 to find a president who did not win a second term, and that was in the height of poor economic conditions and extreme presidential incompetency. A primary challenge would be a big warning signal as to his second term viability (both Ford in ’76 and Carter in ’80 faced significant primary challenges, and both eventually lost).

    If Obama doesn’t win a second term, it will be because he disregarded the results of this warning election. He should now fully recognize that he did not govern in the moderate and bipartisan manner that he promised in the campaign in ’08. The American people don’t like big sudden changes, and they don’t like visible intrusive government. The new Republican opposition in Congress should actually assist his ’12 candidacy.

  • DonS

    Actually, if the economy improves substantially between now and early 2012, he is more likely than not to be re-elected, as that is the historic norm. As Rich points out, above, the only reason Bush 41 was not re-elected was because of Perot’s third party candidacy. Otherwise, you have to go back to Jimmy Carter and his failed candidacy in 1980 to find a president who did not win a second term, and that was in the height of poor economic conditions and extreme presidential incompetency. A primary challenge would be a big warning signal as to his second term viability (both Ford in ’76 and Carter in ’80 faced significant primary challenges, and both eventually lost).

    If Obama doesn’t win a second term, it will be because he disregarded the results of this warning election. He should now fully recognize that he did not govern in the moderate and bipartisan manner that he promised in the campaign in ’08. The American people don’t like big sudden changes, and they don’t like visible intrusive government. The new Republican opposition in Congress should actually assist his ’12 candidacy.

  • Porcell

    Tom, at 5: He could appear to reject his past as a Northern elitist, and pretend to be a born Texan.

    Obama’s background is more Hawaiian and Indonesian than northern, though he did attend some fine northern schools. His arrogance is a personal not a regional trait.

    George W. Bush is deep down proud of his fine family background and education at Andover, Yale, and Harvard, though he appreciates the balance of having grown up in the southwest. He loves Texans and his ranch, though he does cleverly overdo the southwestern twang. Having once lost a Texas election for Congress, he vowed that he wouldn’t be out country boyed by anyone in the future.

  • Porcell

    Tom, at 5: He could appear to reject his past as a Northern elitist, and pretend to be a born Texan.

    Obama’s background is more Hawaiian and Indonesian than northern, though he did attend some fine northern schools. His arrogance is a personal not a regional trait.

    George W. Bush is deep down proud of his fine family background and education at Andover, Yale, and Harvard, though he appreciates the balance of having grown up in the southwest. He loves Texans and his ranch, though he does cleverly overdo the southwestern twang. Having once lost a Texas election for Congress, he vowed that he wouldn’t be out country boyed by anyone in the future.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Bush is just continuing the fine tradition of New Englanders moving to Texas to find their fortunes.

    http://www.forttumbleweed.net/old300.html

    Moses Austin was born in Durham Connecticut.

    Anson Jones was born in Barrington Massachusetts.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Bush is just continuing the fine tradition of New Englanders moving to Texas to find their fortunes.

    http://www.forttumbleweed.net/old300.html

    Moses Austin was born in Durham Connecticut.

    Anson Jones was born in Barrington Massachusetts.

  • Grace

    I don’t believe Obama will be elected to a second term. His self-importance, cocky dodges, when asked direct questions yesterday, during the Q & A’s in the WH, are one of his trade marks. Even when he plays the -humble me- it’s done with a conceited flare, that reeks of defiance.

    Obama has never been forthcoming regarding his academic background. His Columbia College, records and thesis – Harvard records have never been released. There are no Harvard Law Review articles, that I have been able to find. Illinois Bar records have not been released, Illinois State Senate schedule is supposedly lost. Where are the records? Why are they hidden from the public?

    It isn’t just the mans agenda, which is soci@lism, to the extreme – it is his inability to work with others, with differing views. His fathers dreams, became his desire to see them as reality, no matter the COST, and we the citizens of this country are the ones to pay the COST of those soci@list, Marxist dreams.

    If there is to be another Democrat as president 2012, I doubt it will be Obama.

  • Grace

    I don’t believe Obama will be elected to a second term. His self-importance, cocky dodges, when asked direct questions yesterday, during the Q & A’s in the WH, are one of his trade marks. Even when he plays the -humble me- it’s done with a conceited flare, that reeks of defiance.

    Obama has never been forthcoming regarding his academic background. His Columbia College, records and thesis – Harvard records have never been released. There are no Harvard Law Review articles, that I have been able to find. Illinois Bar records have not been released, Illinois State Senate schedule is supposedly lost. Where are the records? Why are they hidden from the public?

    It isn’t just the mans agenda, which is soci@lism, to the extreme – it is his inability to work with others, with differing views. His fathers dreams, became his desire to see them as reality, no matter the COST, and we the citizens of this country are the ones to pay the COST of those soci@list, Marxist dreams.

    If there is to be another Democrat as president 2012, I doubt it will be Obama.

  • Grace

    Did you read both books? I did -

  • Grace

    Did you read both books? I did -

  • Porcell

    sg: Bush is just continuing the fine tradition of New Englanders moving to Texas to find their fortunes..

    Yes, the blood and culture is running a bit thin in New England these days. It’s a good idea to move southwest where the frontier spirit is still real and fortunes are more easily made by smart people. Note, also, that Bush became seriously religious as a result of the southwestern influence.

  • Porcell

    sg: Bush is just continuing the fine tradition of New Englanders moving to Texas to find their fortunes..

    Yes, the blood and culture is running a bit thin in New England these days. It’s a good idea to move southwest where the frontier spirit is still real and fortunes are more easily made by smart people. Note, also, that Bush became seriously religious as a result of the southwestern influence.

  • Dust

    Obama will go the way of Carter at a minimum, but the Repubs will need to field a candidate that will appeal to the Tea Party. Am pretty sure that will be Sarah Palin and am pretty sure she will win and be the first female American president. It would be awesome if the dems dumped Obama and ran Hillary…that would be fun to see, eh?

    Am afraid nothing short of a miracle could get Obama re-elected, but on top of that, the economy will still be limping along, and perhaps there will be some sort of national security issue that his administration will bungle, just like Carter in the hostage thing. Am hoping and praying that that shoe does not drop, but in the event it does, it will just pound one more nail in the re-election coffin.

    For the next 2 years the Repubs will have to do everything they can to minimize the influence of unions, who do a great job of corrupting the electoral process. nice to see that acorn has declared bankruptcy and maybe will be totally discredited, but there is much more to do.

    With the power of the Judiciary committe and all the others committees they now have for 2 years, the Repubs have a great chance to have all sorts of hearings looking into various corruption charges and shenanigans and if they can show that these are really true, they will succeed in damaging the brand and influence of the corrupt union forces and many others.

    Who knows, could be even possible to reverse certain laws that have made possible the unionization of public employee groups and others as well. Many people feel these are unconstitutional for various reasons, but the one that makes most sense to me, is the connection between salaries paid by taxpayers turned around and used to support certain political movements in the form of contributions from union groups funded by union dues taken out of the taxpayer funded salaries….to me that seems like an obvious conflict of interest. But that’s just my opinion….worth exactly what i charge, nothing :)

    Could go on and on, but bottom line….hopefully this is the true beginning of a return to individual responsibility, self reliance and other american ideals, and away from growing a larger and larger nanny state (like that word, sorry) funded by forced taxation from the honest labor of folks who don’t support those issues?

    In any case, it will be a wild and crazy 2 years….and am sure this blog will be busy, busy, busy :)

  • Dust

    Obama will go the way of Carter at a minimum, but the Repubs will need to field a candidate that will appeal to the Tea Party. Am pretty sure that will be Sarah Palin and am pretty sure she will win and be the first female American president. It would be awesome if the dems dumped Obama and ran Hillary…that would be fun to see, eh?

    Am afraid nothing short of a miracle could get Obama re-elected, but on top of that, the economy will still be limping along, and perhaps there will be some sort of national security issue that his administration will bungle, just like Carter in the hostage thing. Am hoping and praying that that shoe does not drop, but in the event it does, it will just pound one more nail in the re-election coffin.

    For the next 2 years the Repubs will have to do everything they can to minimize the influence of unions, who do a great job of corrupting the electoral process. nice to see that acorn has declared bankruptcy and maybe will be totally discredited, but there is much more to do.

    With the power of the Judiciary committe and all the others committees they now have for 2 years, the Repubs have a great chance to have all sorts of hearings looking into various corruption charges and shenanigans and if they can show that these are really true, they will succeed in damaging the brand and influence of the corrupt union forces and many others.

    Who knows, could be even possible to reverse certain laws that have made possible the unionization of public employee groups and others as well. Many people feel these are unconstitutional for various reasons, but the one that makes most sense to me, is the connection between salaries paid by taxpayers turned around and used to support certain political movements in the form of contributions from union groups funded by union dues taken out of the taxpayer funded salaries….to me that seems like an obvious conflict of interest. But that’s just my opinion….worth exactly what i charge, nothing :)

    Could go on and on, but bottom line….hopefully this is the true beginning of a return to individual responsibility, self reliance and other american ideals, and away from growing a larger and larger nanny state (like that word, sorry) funded by forced taxation from the honest labor of folks who don’t support those issues?

    In any case, it will be a wild and crazy 2 years….and am sure this blog will be busy, busy, busy :)

  • Cincinnatus

    God, I hope Sarah Palin isn’t the first female President. That would be the epitome of squandering a good thing (if one is inclined to regard the Tea Party impulse as a good thing).

    Meanwhile, predictions of Obama’s demise are greatly exaggerated and premature. As many have aptly recognized, he is in essentially the exact same position in which Clinton found himself on this day in 1994. On the other hand, Obama is also in the position of having alienated his liberal base (not so much the problem for Clinton in ’94), and Democrats haven’t had fewer than 200 members in the House since 1946. On the other other hand, don’t expect this Republican House to accomplish anything. And they won’t. So it’s highly questionable as to whether voters will continue blaming Obama or the Republicans in 2012.

  • Cincinnatus

    God, I hope Sarah Palin isn’t the first female President. That would be the epitome of squandering a good thing (if one is inclined to regard the Tea Party impulse as a good thing).

    Meanwhile, predictions of Obama’s demise are greatly exaggerated and premature. As many have aptly recognized, he is in essentially the exact same position in which Clinton found himself on this day in 1994. On the other hand, Obama is also in the position of having alienated his liberal base (not so much the problem for Clinton in ’94), and Democrats haven’t had fewer than 200 members in the House since 1946. On the other other hand, don’t expect this Republican House to accomplish anything. And they won’t. So it’s highly questionable as to whether voters will continue blaming Obama or the Republicans in 2012.

  • Cincinnatus

    Kudos to Republicans for wising up and realizing that it is, as it almost always is, “the economy stupid.” That might help.

  • Cincinnatus

    Kudos to Republicans for wising up and realizing that it is, as it almost always is, “the economy stupid.” That might help.

  • Grace

    Dust – hate to disagree with you…. Sarah Palin would be the wrong choice for president.

    The most important reason – she doesn’t have the experience. The cutesy way she presents herself is anything but professional. It has played well for some, but it would never appeal to leaders throughout the world, who expect someone with real experience. It’s bad enough that Obama has embarrassed this country for two years,….. Palin would further contribute to the mess.

    Palin has made contributions for the Tea Party, there is no arguing there, but that is a far cry from the Oval office.

    The ticket would be a complete loss for the WH if Palin runs and she is nominated as the candidate -

  • Grace

    Dust – hate to disagree with you…. Sarah Palin would be the wrong choice for president.

    The most important reason – she doesn’t have the experience. The cutesy way she presents herself is anything but professional. It has played well for some, but it would never appeal to leaders throughout the world, who expect someone with real experience. It’s bad enough that Obama has embarrassed this country for two years,….. Palin would further contribute to the mess.

    Palin has made contributions for the Tea Party, there is no arguing there, but that is a far cry from the Oval office.

    The ticket would be a complete loss for the WH if Palin runs and she is nominated as the candidate -

  • Grace

    Hate to say it ladies, but this country, as we forge ahead needs a man, a real man with experience, one who keeps his word, has a real plan, and can explain it without dodging the hard questions.

    This isn’t about glass ceilings, this is about the health of a nation, one that needs direction with backbone – I want to see a man step up to the plate, and do what they do best, and that is LEAD!

  • Grace

    Hate to say it ladies, but this country, as we forge ahead needs a man, a real man with experience, one who keeps his word, has a real plan, and can explain it without dodging the hard questions.

    This isn’t about glass ceilings, this is about the health of a nation, one that needs direction with backbone – I want to see a man step up to the plate, and do what they do best, and that is LEAD!

  • Tom Hering

    “… the Repubs will need to field a candidate that will appeal to the Tea Party. Am pretty sure that will be Sarah Palin and am pretty sure she will win and be the first female American president. It would be awesome if the dems dumped Obama and ran Hillary … that would be fun to see, eh?” – Dust @ 21 (emphasis added).

    You mean a cat fight? Good grief. Are you also hoping they’ll end up wrestling on the floor during a debate, and maybe “accidentally” kiss – on the lips?

  • Tom Hering

    “… the Repubs will need to field a candidate that will appeal to the Tea Party. Am pretty sure that will be Sarah Palin and am pretty sure she will win and be the first female American president. It would be awesome if the dems dumped Obama and ran Hillary … that would be fun to see, eh?” – Dust @ 21 (emphasis added).

    You mean a cat fight? Good grief. Are you also hoping they’ll end up wrestling on the floor during a debate, and maybe “accidentally” kiss – on the lips?

  • helen

    One story I watched was supposed to show Palin’s “influence” in that about half the people she campaigned for won.
    About half lost, too. What do you make of that?

    Why would a woman who walked off a small job be considered for a bigger one. Are the Republicans yearning to run “Obama lite”!?

  • helen

    One story I watched was supposed to show Palin’s “influence” in that about half the people she campaigned for won.
    About half lost, too. What do you make of that?

    Why would a woman who walked off a small job be considered for a bigger one. Are the Republicans yearning to run “Obama lite”!?

  • Dust

    Cincinnatus above……would agree with you that by definition, predictions are always premature, thanks for pointing out the obvious….and by the way, including yours, eh? In any case, we’ll just have to wait and see who’s premature predictions comes to bear fruit, let us say :)

    Also Cincinnatus…it’s always about the economy, and this one isn’t going to get any better for some time….well, not until after 2012 or as long as the current administration is calling the shots. Really, the gang that can’t shoot straight :(

    Grace above….re: Sarah Palin, you have good points, as usual, and will think about them, but at the moment respectfully disagree. In my opinion, one of the most important qualities an executive can have is the ability to surround themselves with high quality people and wise counsel, and then know how to motivate them. It isn’t so much about their intellect but more about setting the agenda and then unleashing the very best people to go out and make it happen. Am hopeful that she can do this, based upon these skills she has demonstrated so far. Even with respect to her “image” in the eyes of other world leaders, well that can’t be all that important in the long run. Wasn’t Obama supposed to be the one that would impress everyone with his intelligence and eloquence, etc.? But if you can’t make decisions and negotiate well behind closed doors, who cares really? My guess is she will do fine and actually teach them all a lesson that it is not about image, but about substance and over the long run, they will learn to respect and hopefully even fear her….meaning fear in the good sense, of course!

    As per a “real man” stepping up to the plate….any suggestions? The ones right now on the national scene and conservative are Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich, do any of those appeal to you? The Governors of Minnesota and Louisiana might appeal to you? Or the fine Senator from West Virginia (?)…DeMint? Any others?

    Finally, and to repeat myself, am not necessarily a big fan of Sarah Palin, but am enjoying how she is getting regular people fired up and interested in the political scene again, and in that sense, she is one of the best. As per President, we could do better, but we could do lots worse, as we are seeing at the moment.

  • Dust

    Cincinnatus above……would agree with you that by definition, predictions are always premature, thanks for pointing out the obvious….and by the way, including yours, eh? In any case, we’ll just have to wait and see who’s premature predictions comes to bear fruit, let us say :)

    Also Cincinnatus…it’s always about the economy, and this one isn’t going to get any better for some time….well, not until after 2012 or as long as the current administration is calling the shots. Really, the gang that can’t shoot straight :(

    Grace above….re: Sarah Palin, you have good points, as usual, and will think about them, but at the moment respectfully disagree. In my opinion, one of the most important qualities an executive can have is the ability to surround themselves with high quality people and wise counsel, and then know how to motivate them. It isn’t so much about their intellect but more about setting the agenda and then unleashing the very best people to go out and make it happen. Am hopeful that she can do this, based upon these skills she has demonstrated so far. Even with respect to her “image” in the eyes of other world leaders, well that can’t be all that important in the long run. Wasn’t Obama supposed to be the one that would impress everyone with his intelligence and eloquence, etc.? But if you can’t make decisions and negotiate well behind closed doors, who cares really? My guess is she will do fine and actually teach them all a lesson that it is not about image, but about substance and over the long run, they will learn to respect and hopefully even fear her….meaning fear in the good sense, of course!

    As per a “real man” stepping up to the plate….any suggestions? The ones right now on the national scene and conservative are Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich, do any of those appeal to you? The Governors of Minnesota and Louisiana might appeal to you? Or the fine Senator from West Virginia (?)…DeMint? Any others?

    Finally, and to repeat myself, am not necessarily a big fan of Sarah Palin, but am enjoying how she is getting regular people fired up and interested in the political scene again, and in that sense, she is one of the best. As per President, we could do better, but we could do lots worse, as we are seeing at the moment.

  • helen

    Grace, I agree but the Republicans can’t seem to find one!

  • helen

    Grace, I agree but the Republicans can’t seem to find one!

  • Dust

    Tom….you have a wild imagination…of all the possible interpretations of my comments…are you sure that isn’t what you would want to see?

    Was just thinking of it from a personality perspective….the dull, frumpy Clinton trying to intellectualize everything versus the down to earth and plain spoken Palin neutralizing all that with her populist rhetoric and personality. Something, but not quite, like Ginger versus Mary Ann on Gilligan’s Island, eh?

  • Dust

    Tom….you have a wild imagination…of all the possible interpretations of my comments…are you sure that isn’t what you would want to see?

    Was just thinking of it from a personality perspective….the dull, frumpy Clinton trying to intellectualize everything versus the down to earth and plain spoken Palin neutralizing all that with her populist rhetoric and personality. Something, but not quite, like Ginger versus Mary Ann on Gilligan’s Island, eh?

  • Dust

    Helen….what do you make of that? Not bad at all for just 2 years in the spotlight and tons and tons of negative press….am sure she is just warming up!

  • Dust

    Helen….what do you make of that? Not bad at all for just 2 years in the spotlight and tons and tons of negative press….am sure she is just warming up!

  • Tom Hering

    “Something, but not quite, like Ginger versus Mary Ann on Gilligan’s Island, eh?” – Dust @ 30.

    I think the hole is deeper, but keep trying. :-)

  • Tom Hering

    “Something, but not quite, like Ginger versus Mary Ann on Gilligan’s Island, eh?” – Dust @ 30.

    I think the hole is deeper, but keep trying. :-)

  • Dust

    Tom….what hole?

    Will admit just pulled that one out quickly and no time to edit or revise….just like now.

    But think about it…Ivy League vs. State College, brain vs. plain, frumpy vs. trendy, out of shape vs. healthy and athletic….etc. etc. with the exception of the first of the list, you may not know how to match these up to each possible candidate? but am sure who you would vote for, eh? Or maybe not :)

  • Dust

    Tom….what hole?

    Will admit just pulled that one out quickly and no time to edit or revise….just like now.

    But think about it…Ivy League vs. State College, brain vs. plain, frumpy vs. trendy, out of shape vs. healthy and athletic….etc. etc. with the exception of the first of the list, you may not know how to match these up to each possible candidate? but am sure who you would vote for, eh? Or maybe not :)

  • SKPeterson

    How’s about Obama demanding the return of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, PEI,Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Alberta to the United States and the complete withdrawal of all imperialist forces from the free republic of Quebec.

  • SKPeterson

    How’s about Obama demanding the return of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, PEI,Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Alberta to the United States and the complete withdrawal of all imperialist forces from the free republic of Quebec.

  • Grace

    Dust – 28 ” In my opinion, one of the most important qualities an executive can have is the ability to surround themselves with high quality people and wise counsel, and then know how to motivate them.”

    I’m not sure, but I believe John Coale, a Washington lawyer is STILL Sarah Palin’s advisor. John Coale is a Scientologist……. I don’t see how anyone could overlook that combination. I woudn’t think of hiring a Scientologist to direct anything I was doing.

    Think about it!

  • Grace

    Dust – 28 ” In my opinion, one of the most important qualities an executive can have is the ability to surround themselves with high quality people and wise counsel, and then know how to motivate them.”

    I’m not sure, but I believe John Coale, a Washington lawyer is STILL Sarah Palin’s advisor. John Coale is a Scientologist……. I don’t see how anyone could overlook that combination. I woudn’t think of hiring a Scientologist to direct anything I was doing.

    Think about it!

  • Grace

    INFO: John Coale is Greta Van Susterens husband.

  • Grace

    INFO: John Coale is Greta Van Susterens husband.

  • Dust

    Grace above….thanks for the info and understand your concern. But actually that does not bother me, as am sure the advice is how to get around the Washington DC insider network, as opposed to advice on her Christian faith? So to me, someone’s faith is not important when it comes to secular matters, and am sure most other folks feel that way? My guess is that most folks might overlook the fact that Mitt Romney is a practicing Mormon, assuming that the would not detract from his ability to do the right thing for the country? Others would feel differently, am sure!

    Thank you again Grace for pointing out that info. My assumption would have been that almost everyone on the Fox News were of the RC faith, as it seems to me the little I know of the personalities is that many of them are RF. Wonder if Rupert himself is?

    So am not that worried….at least not at the moment!

  • Dust

    Grace above….thanks for the info and understand your concern. But actually that does not bother me, as am sure the advice is how to get around the Washington DC insider network, as opposed to advice on her Christian faith? So to me, someone’s faith is not important when it comes to secular matters, and am sure most other folks feel that way? My guess is that most folks might overlook the fact that Mitt Romney is a practicing Mormon, assuming that the would not detract from his ability to do the right thing for the country? Others would feel differently, am sure!

    Thank you again Grace for pointing out that info. My assumption would have been that almost everyone on the Fox News were of the RC faith, as it seems to me the little I know of the personalities is that many of them are RF. Wonder if Rupert himself is?

    So am not that worried….at least not at the moment!

  • Grace

    Dust – 37

    “So to me, someone’s faith is not important when it comes to secular matters, and am sure most other folks feel that way? My guess is that most folks might overlook the fact that Mitt Romney is a practicing Mormon, assuming that the would not detract from his ability to do the right thing for the country? Others would feel differently, am sure!”

    Faith is most important to me. When it comes to my homeland, my forefathers, those who gave up everything to come here, start anew…… I stand in awe. One side of my family came here in the early 1700′s, their life wasn’t easy, in fact it was damn hard. They were hardy folk who raised big families, up to fourteen children. They knew what hard work was all about, the women were strong, they raised children to be honest, to do their best. They trusted the LORD. Faith in Christ was the mainstay of their lives. They were not swayed by those who turned their back on God, or who played games with the truth, …… they knew the difference.

    The other side of my family had come from Europe as well. They knew how difficult life could be, they worked hard, they paid their way, they raised families and children who knew HOW to WORK, they accepted nothing less. God was most important in their family as well. They understood that no one could lead, unless he was lead of God Almighty, and that didn’t include the cults.

    Secular matters, don’t trump my faith in Christ Jesus. If secular beliefs are in conflict with my faith, my FAITH will always take precedence over anything else, no matter how popular.

    I made this statement before the 2008 elections and I make it again: I won’t vote for Mitt Romney, because he attributes his faith to a cult. It’s not a matter of what he would do for this country, …. it is a matter of what he stands for, what he believes…. it is foreign to the Word of God.

    I and many others will not vote for Romney. He is a member of a cult. I will never betray my Savior by believing in HIM and voting for someone who is swayed by Joseph Smith.

  • Grace

    Dust – 37

    “So to me, someone’s faith is not important when it comes to secular matters, and am sure most other folks feel that way? My guess is that most folks might overlook the fact that Mitt Romney is a practicing Mormon, assuming that the would not detract from his ability to do the right thing for the country? Others would feel differently, am sure!”

    Faith is most important to me. When it comes to my homeland, my forefathers, those who gave up everything to come here, start anew…… I stand in awe. One side of my family came here in the early 1700′s, their life wasn’t easy, in fact it was damn hard. They were hardy folk who raised big families, up to fourteen children. They knew what hard work was all about, the women were strong, they raised children to be honest, to do their best. They trusted the LORD. Faith in Christ was the mainstay of their lives. They were not swayed by those who turned their back on God, or who played games with the truth, …… they knew the difference.

    The other side of my family had come from Europe as well. They knew how difficult life could be, they worked hard, they paid their way, they raised families and children who knew HOW to WORK, they accepted nothing less. God was most important in their family as well. They understood that no one could lead, unless he was lead of God Almighty, and that didn’t include the cults.

    Secular matters, don’t trump my faith in Christ Jesus. If secular beliefs are in conflict with my faith, my FAITH will always take precedence over anything else, no matter how popular.

    I made this statement before the 2008 elections and I make it again: I won’t vote for Mitt Romney, because he attributes his faith to a cult. It’s not a matter of what he would do for this country, …. it is a matter of what he stands for, what he believes…. it is foreign to the Word of God.

    I and many others will not vote for Romney. He is a member of a cult. I will never betray my Savior by believing in HIM and voting for someone who is swayed by Joseph Smith.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace said, “I believe John Coale, a Washington lawyer is STILL Sarah Palin’s advisor” (@35). Do you have any reason to believe that? I found a May 18, 2009 article[1] that referred to Coale as a “onetime adviser to Sarah Palin” and a much more recent article refers to him merely as “a personal friend of Palin”[2].

    Still, I wonder (along with Dust, it would seem) why you think that a Scientologist would be incapable of giving “wise counsel”. Are they not as smart?

    “I woudn’t think of hiring a Scientologist to direct anything I was doing.” Really? Anything? Are they just incompetent, the lot of them?

    Or do you have a religious standard for whom you would hire or choose to work with? What is it? Is there a specific denomination, or is it a list of dogmatic points? What must a person believe for them to be a good director or adviser?

    [1]dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=561D1A2F-18FE-70B2-A820AC29ECE18C18
    [2]voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/eye-on-2012/sarah-palin-thin-skinned-or-sm.html

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace said, “I believe John Coale, a Washington lawyer is STILL Sarah Palin’s advisor” (@35). Do you have any reason to believe that? I found a May 18, 2009 article[1] that referred to Coale as a “onetime adviser to Sarah Palin” and a much more recent article refers to him merely as “a personal friend of Palin”[2].

    Still, I wonder (along with Dust, it would seem) why you think that a Scientologist would be incapable of giving “wise counsel”. Are they not as smart?

    “I woudn’t think of hiring a Scientologist to direct anything I was doing.” Really? Anything? Are they just incompetent, the lot of them?

    Or do you have a religious standard for whom you would hire or choose to work with? What is it? Is there a specific denomination, or is it a list of dogmatic points? What must a person believe for them to be a good director or adviser?

    [1]dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=561D1A2F-18FE-70B2-A820AC29ECE18C18
    [2]voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/eye-on-2012/sarah-palin-thin-skinned-or-sm.html

  • Grace

    tODD 39

    “Do you have any reason to believe that? I found a May 18, 2009 article[1] that referred to Coale as a “onetime adviser to Sarah Palin” and a much more recent article refers to him merely as “a personal friend of Palin”[2].”

    I don’t have any idea what you have been reading on the internet, OR whether it be true or false.

    Still, I wonder (along with Dust, it would seem) why you think that a Scientologist would be incapable of giving “wise counsel”. Are they not as smart?

    I wouldn’t seek counsel from anyone who was in a cult. As Believers, the LORD didn’t leave us helpless, to those who are godless for advice and counsel.

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. Psalms 1:1

  • Grace

    tODD 39

    “Do you have any reason to believe that? I found a May 18, 2009 article[1] that referred to Coale as a “onetime adviser to Sarah Palin” and a much more recent article refers to him merely as “a personal friend of Palin”[2].”

    I don’t have any idea what you have been reading on the internet, OR whether it be true or false.

    Still, I wonder (along with Dust, it would seem) why you think that a Scientologist would be incapable of giving “wise counsel”. Are they not as smart?

    I wouldn’t seek counsel from anyone who was in a cult. As Believers, the LORD didn’t leave us helpless, to those who are godless for advice and counsel.

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. Psalms 1:1

  • Dust

    Grace….thanks for your reply and totally agree with you that faith is important, and in the life of a Christian one of the most important, if not the most important.

    It’s just that outside of the Church it just can’t be that important to getting along in daily life. Maybe you do, that’s fine, but as the story goes, we don’t ask the faith of the doctor doing our critical surgery, only if the doctor is skilled and good at the procedure. Likewise, we need to trade with all sorts of businesses for food and clothing, automobiles and hardware supplies, and on and on…of course, it would be great if we could steer all our business to those of our faith, but usually we can’t and so we do business with others whose faith we don’t share or whose faith may be opposite our own.

    Have to agree with tODD (unfortunately, ha) but just because we don’t approve of someone’s faith doesn’t mean they are not highly qualified in other areas of our secular life. It doesn’t mean they are not smart and cannot help us in areas outside of our own expertise. Even sometimes we find when working with others, that we do have things in common and can work for our common good. That’s what we are to do as good neighbors and to show our love to our neighbors, isn’t it?

    Speaking of the common good, consider our soldiers who are putting their life on the line for our liberty and way of life. Would it bother you if one of them were a Scientologist (sp?)? Would you honor his sacrifice if it were to be the case he was killed while trying to defend our nation and all it’s citizens. Do you accept the benefits of their sacrifice even though you don’t approve of their faith and life?

    There are many, many more examples am sure, but the hour is late and my intention is not to debate this point. Was wondering how you react to Mitt Romney and thank you for sharing your thoughts. How about the others though? Newt? He is Roman Catholic, am sure you know? Do you have any names that you would nominate as someone you could support? Perhaps I could learn more about them and support them too, if it turns out to be someone with the right qualifications from my perspective. If so, would hope you would share please?

    Finally, american politics is always tough…there is usually no one person who makes everyone happy…it is a game of compromise and concession…..often times it is pick the least worst of two evils, and even in the best of times we still get a fallen, fallible human being, hopefully though, humble and wise enough to surround themselves with capable and knowledgeable advisors who are the best in their areas of expertise, regardless of their religious faith. Isn’t that egalitarian ideal part of the best of america too?

  • Dust

    Grace….thanks for your reply and totally agree with you that faith is important, and in the life of a Christian one of the most important, if not the most important.

    It’s just that outside of the Church it just can’t be that important to getting along in daily life. Maybe you do, that’s fine, but as the story goes, we don’t ask the faith of the doctor doing our critical surgery, only if the doctor is skilled and good at the procedure. Likewise, we need to trade with all sorts of businesses for food and clothing, automobiles and hardware supplies, and on and on…of course, it would be great if we could steer all our business to those of our faith, but usually we can’t and so we do business with others whose faith we don’t share or whose faith may be opposite our own.

    Have to agree with tODD (unfortunately, ha) but just because we don’t approve of someone’s faith doesn’t mean they are not highly qualified in other areas of our secular life. It doesn’t mean they are not smart and cannot help us in areas outside of our own expertise. Even sometimes we find when working with others, that we do have things in common and can work for our common good. That’s what we are to do as good neighbors and to show our love to our neighbors, isn’t it?

    Speaking of the common good, consider our soldiers who are putting their life on the line for our liberty and way of life. Would it bother you if one of them were a Scientologist (sp?)? Would you honor his sacrifice if it were to be the case he was killed while trying to defend our nation and all it’s citizens. Do you accept the benefits of their sacrifice even though you don’t approve of their faith and life?

    There are many, many more examples am sure, but the hour is late and my intention is not to debate this point. Was wondering how you react to Mitt Romney and thank you for sharing your thoughts. How about the others though? Newt? He is Roman Catholic, am sure you know? Do you have any names that you would nominate as someone you could support? Perhaps I could learn more about them and support them too, if it turns out to be someone with the right qualifications from my perspective. If so, would hope you would share please?

    Finally, american politics is always tough…there is usually no one person who makes everyone happy…it is a game of compromise and concession…..often times it is pick the least worst of two evils, and even in the best of times we still get a fallen, fallible human being, hopefully though, humble and wise enough to surround themselves with capable and knowledgeable advisors who are the best in their areas of expertise, regardless of their religious faith. Isn’t that egalitarian ideal part of the best of america too?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace (@40), I pointed you directly to “what [I] have been reading on the internet” — that’s what the footnotes are for.

    “OR whether it be true or false.” Grace, one of my links was to “The Fix” column in the Washington Post — the very same column (albeit from a different date) that you once linked to yourself the first time you spread this John Coale rumor and suggested Palin was wrong to hire him. Do you have a reason to believe “The Fix” was trustworthy in 2009 but is no longer so in 2010?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace (@40), I pointed you directly to “what [I] have been reading on the internet” — that’s what the footnotes are for.

    “OR whether it be true or false.” Grace, one of my links was to “The Fix” column in the Washington Post — the very same column (albeit from a different date) that you once linked to yourself the first time you spread this John Coale rumor and suggested Palin was wrong to hire him. Do you have a reason to believe “The Fix” was trustworthy in 2009 but is no longer so in 2010?

  • Dust

    tODD above….wikipedia says he “serves as an advisor” to SP:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Van_Susteren

    Cheers!

  • Dust

    tODD above….wikipedia says he “serves as an advisor” to SP:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Van_Susteren

    Cheers!

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Dust (@43), you have to follow the footnotes in Wikipedia to see if its claims are accurate. Yes, the Wikipedia article for Greta Van Susteren says that “Coale serves as an adviser for Sarah Palin,” but it bases that, it says, on this New York Times article. Had you read that, you would have found the following quotes (with my emphasis):

    [Van Susteren's] critics have questioned her husband’s advising of Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska….Mr. Coale, a prominent trial lawyer who helped lead the tobacco litigation of the 1990s, talked to Ms. Palin about her legal bills and advised her to start a political action committee. “I started the PAC for her over the next month or two, and helped start a legal defense fund for her. That’s about it,” Mr. Coale said last week. “I never advised her on any politics or anything like that.”

    So the Wikipedia article would appear to be both relying on stale information (the Times article is from May 2009) and misrepresenting its own sources.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Dust (@43), you have to follow the footnotes in Wikipedia to see if its claims are accurate. Yes, the Wikipedia article for Greta Van Susteren says that “Coale serves as an adviser for Sarah Palin,” but it bases that, it says, on this New York Times article. Had you read that, you would have found the following quotes (with my emphasis):

    [Van Susteren's] critics have questioned her husband’s advising of Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska….Mr. Coale, a prominent trial lawyer who helped lead the tobacco litigation of the 1990s, talked to Ms. Palin about her legal bills and advised her to start a political action committee. “I started the PAC for her over the next month or two, and helped start a legal defense fund for her. That’s about it,” Mr. Coale said last week. “I never advised her on any politics or anything like that.”

    So the Wikipedia article would appear to be both relying on stale information (the Times article is from May 2009) and misrepresenting its own sources.

  • Grace

    Dust – 41

    “It’s just that outside of the Church it just can’t be that important to getting along in daily life. Maybe you do, that’s fine, but as the story goes, we don’t ask the faith of the doctor doing our critical surgery, only if the doctor is skilled and good at the procedure. Likewise, we need to trade with all sorts of businesses for food and clothing, automobiles and hardware supplies, and on and on…of course, it would be great if we could steer all our business to those of our faith, but usually we can’t and so we do business with others whose faith we don’t share or whose faith may be opposite our own.”

    My daily life is dependent upon God – those who treat illness are not going to direct my life, it is not a moral directory, it is a medical remedy. However those who direct the pages of our current world are much different, they determine the MORAL direction, that is much different than those who perform a surgery, such as an Appendectomy.

    Faith and morality are not subject to tradeoffs, …. that too often has been the problem for decades, that is why we find ourselves in moral decay within our own country.

    If matters of state and country CONFLICT with God and moral law, I want nothing to do with it. It is nothing but heathen to consider such a thing, after tasting the goodness of God.

  • Grace

    Dust – 41

    “It’s just that outside of the Church it just can’t be that important to getting along in daily life. Maybe you do, that’s fine, but as the story goes, we don’t ask the faith of the doctor doing our critical surgery, only if the doctor is skilled and good at the procedure. Likewise, we need to trade with all sorts of businesses for food and clothing, automobiles and hardware supplies, and on and on…of course, it would be great if we could steer all our business to those of our faith, but usually we can’t and so we do business with others whose faith we don’t share or whose faith may be opposite our own.”

    My daily life is dependent upon God – those who treat illness are not going to direct my life, it is not a moral directory, it is a medical remedy. However those who direct the pages of our current world are much different, they determine the MORAL direction, that is much different than those who perform a surgery, such as an Appendectomy.

    Faith and morality are not subject to tradeoffs, …. that too often has been the problem for decades, that is why we find ourselves in moral decay within our own country.

    If matters of state and country CONFLICT with God and moral law, I want nothing to do with it. It is nothing but heathen to consider such a thing, after tasting the goodness of God.

  • Dust

    Great research…thanks very much tODD! Guess should know not to trust everything on the web :)

    Just wondering….is that the same PAC that got SP in a bunch of trouble? Seems she got in some hot water over something similar, and had to repay a bunch of money? Not to mention, deal with the negative press and criticism. If so, perhaps he is not such a good advisor after all?

    Grace may be right on this one :)

  • Dust

    Great research…thanks very much tODD! Guess should know not to trust everything on the web :)

    Just wondering….is that the same PAC that got SP in a bunch of trouble? Seems she got in some hot water over something similar, and had to repay a bunch of money? Not to mention, deal with the negative press and criticism. If so, perhaps he is not such a good advisor after all?

    Grace may be right on this one :)

  • Dust

    Grace….you’re right, but a legal advisor falls in the same category of a medical practitioner, at least to me. They can advise on the pros and cons of certain actions based upon the laws of the land (not always in agreement with God’s laws unfortunately, and probably why you need a good secular lawyer to navigate that swamp!), and it has nothing to do with steering the moral direction of the country. Of course, the President would surround their self with moral and ethical folks and then it would be important to know something about the background and faith of those advisors. Or consider the experts on weapon systems or trade policy, and many, many other areas…..they can’t all have the same faith, and they don’t need to since it doesn’t really play a role in their secular areas of expertise.

    So who would you support if you had to at this moment? It is not an easy question to answer given the high standards, so am very curious. Although my guess is, you won’t say….that’s ok too :)

  • Dust

    Grace….you’re right, but a legal advisor falls in the same category of a medical practitioner, at least to me. They can advise on the pros and cons of certain actions based upon the laws of the land (not always in agreement with God’s laws unfortunately, and probably why you need a good secular lawyer to navigate that swamp!), and it has nothing to do with steering the moral direction of the country. Of course, the President would surround their self with moral and ethical folks and then it would be important to know something about the background and faith of those advisors. Or consider the experts on weapon systems or trade policy, and many, many other areas…..they can’t all have the same faith, and they don’t need to since it doesn’t really play a role in their secular areas of expertise.

    So who would you support if you had to at this moment? It is not an easy question to answer given the high standards, so am very curious. Although my guess is, you won’t say….that’s ok too :)

  • Grace

    Dust – 47

    “Grace….you’re right, but a legal advisor falls in the same category of a medical practitioner, at least to me. They can advise on the pros and cons of certain actions based upon the laws of the land (not always in agreement with God’s laws unfortunately, and probably why you need a good secular lawyer to navigate that swamp!), and it has nothing to do with steering the moral direction of the country.”

    No a medical doctor doesn’t fall in the same category. They are there to alleviate your suffering and pain, they are not their to impart moral law, or govern your life.

    “Of course, the President would surround their self with moral and ethical folks and then it would be important to know something about the background and faith of those advisors. Or consider the experts on weapon systems or trade policy, and many, many other areas…..they can’t all have the same faith, and they don’t need to since it doesn’t really play a role in their secular areas of expertise.”

    No, presidents don’t always surround themselves with moral, Christian Believers – for that reason, their beliefs don’t line up with those of Believers, that is no surprise. We as Believers march to a different leader, one who created the universe and made you and me.

    Our country faces a faceless mask – it makes no distinction between right and wrong, ….. only between what is satisfactory to maintaining EVENNESS.

    “So who would you support if you had to at this moment? It is not an easy question to answer given the high standards, so am very curious. Although my guess is, you won’t say….that’s ok too”

    I can’t answer your question, it is too soon. It is like chess, we haven’t started to play yet, I don’t know what moves will be made. When I have the game plan, I’ll let you know my friend.

  • Grace

    Dust – 47

    “Grace….you’re right, but a legal advisor falls in the same category of a medical practitioner, at least to me. They can advise on the pros and cons of certain actions based upon the laws of the land (not always in agreement with God’s laws unfortunately, and probably why you need a good secular lawyer to navigate that swamp!), and it has nothing to do with steering the moral direction of the country.”

    No a medical doctor doesn’t fall in the same category. They are there to alleviate your suffering and pain, they are not their to impart moral law, or govern your life.

    “Of course, the President would surround their self with moral and ethical folks and then it would be important to know something about the background and faith of those advisors. Or consider the experts on weapon systems or trade policy, and many, many other areas…..they can’t all have the same faith, and they don’t need to since it doesn’t really play a role in their secular areas of expertise.”

    No, presidents don’t always surround themselves with moral, Christian Believers – for that reason, their beliefs don’t line up with those of Believers, that is no surprise. We as Believers march to a different leader, one who created the universe and made you and me.

    Our country faces a faceless mask – it makes no distinction between right and wrong, ….. only between what is satisfactory to maintaining EVENNESS.

    “So who would you support if you had to at this moment? It is not an easy question to answer given the high standards, so am very curious. Although my guess is, you won’t say….that’s ok too”

    I can’t answer your question, it is too soon. It is like chess, we haven’t started to play yet, I don’t know what moves will be made. When I have the game plan, I’ll let you know my friend.

  • Grace

    Dust,

    There are a group of men to choose from – I need to think more upon who would govern rightly and justly – it is not impossible, the possibility of it being right is our looking towards God for the answer!

  • Grace

    Dust,

    There are a group of men to choose from – I need to think more upon who would govern rightly and justly – it is not impossible, the possibility of it being right is our looking towards God for the answer!

  • Dust

    Grace….thanks for your reply my friend! Might say, you have the right approach in seeking answers to the very important question of future leadership for our country :)

  • Dust

    Grace….thanks for your reply my friend! Might say, you have the right approach in seeking answers to the very important question of future leadership for our country :)


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