State of the Union

I usually consider it my patriotic duty to watch the President’s State of the Union Address. I couldn’t this time. Tell me about it.

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • Larry

    My wife and I watched. Even IF one removes political agreement or disagreement from listening to it – it was the most disconnected, confused hogde podge of ‘high ideas’ and had no inspiration whatsoever. The thing about other Presidents like Clinton on one hand and Reagon on the other, polar opposites policitally, they could at least inspire the country toward a vision or two.

    The “high ideas” were just empty statements something akin to “let’s don’t beat up kittens and puppies”. This was more like a vacuuous cheer leader trying to “gin up the crowd” on cute statements and empty headed “rah rahs”.

    It was hard to stay tuned simply on the face value of it being “nothingness”. And the whole dem/rep mixture sitting together added visually to this uninspired yawn fest.

    It’s almost, both sides really, as if “we are all out of ideas…so lets try to cheer our way back”.

  • Larry

    My wife and I watched. Even IF one removes political agreement or disagreement from listening to it – it was the most disconnected, confused hogde podge of ‘high ideas’ and had no inspiration whatsoever. The thing about other Presidents like Clinton on one hand and Reagon on the other, polar opposites policitally, they could at least inspire the country toward a vision or two.

    The “high ideas” were just empty statements something akin to “let’s don’t beat up kittens and puppies”. This was more like a vacuuous cheer leader trying to “gin up the crowd” on cute statements and empty headed “rah rahs”.

    It was hard to stay tuned simply on the face value of it being “nothingness”. And the whole dem/rep mixture sitting together added visually to this uninspired yawn fest.

    It’s almost, both sides really, as if “we are all out of ideas…so lets try to cheer our way back”.

  • WebMonk

    Didn’t watch it as I was busy with something else. Everything I’ve heard about it since, though, makes Larry’s description sound pretty accurate – vacuous.

    I read the text, and it was pretty much made of cotton candy, so maybe the presented speech itself improved on the raw words, but in the raw words there was nothing of power, inspiration, or change.

    The $400 bn over ten years – a laughable amount compared to what the govt’s finances are like, even if it were to actually happen instead of lasting for maybe one year and then getting set aside.

  • WebMonk

    Didn’t watch it as I was busy with something else. Everything I’ve heard about it since, though, makes Larry’s description sound pretty accurate – vacuous.

    I read the text, and it was pretty much made of cotton candy, so maybe the presented speech itself improved on the raw words, but in the raw words there was nothing of power, inspiration, or change.

    The $400 bn over ten years – a laughable amount compared to what the govt’s finances are like, even if it were to actually happen instead of lasting for maybe one year and then getting set aside.

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    We had a State of the Union last night?

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    We had a State of the Union last night?

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    I didn’t watch it (worked on my deck instead, like any patriotic American), but here’s what it was; trying to mend fences made with the GOP during the campaigns, he nonetheless pressed for as much government spending as possible.

    Congratulations for joining the legions of sensible Americans who recognize SOTU speeches as good fertilizer, but not good rhetoric!

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    I didn’t watch it (worked on my deck instead, like any patriotic American), but here’s what it was; trying to mend fences made with the GOP during the campaigns, he nonetheless pressed for as much government spending as possible.

    Congratulations for joining the legions of sensible Americans who recognize SOTU speeches as good fertilizer, but not good rhetoric!

  • TES

    The double overtime Florida-Georgia basketball game (enthralling) drew my attention away at the beginning and sleep overcame me toward the end. Can’t say that I was surprised by anything.

  • TES

    The double overtime Florida-Georgia basketball game (enthralling) drew my attention away at the beginning and sleep overcame me toward the end. Can’t say that I was surprised by anything.

  • Kirk

    More interesting than the speech was the minor Tea Party v. Republican counter rebuttal drama. Michelle Bachman v. Paul Ryan. This has interesting implications for 2012.

  • Kirk

    More interesting than the speech was the minor Tea Party v. Republican counter rebuttal drama. Michelle Bachman v. Paul Ryan. This has interesting implications for 2012.

  • WebMonk

    Kirk, think we’re looking at the beginning of a three-party political system?

  • WebMonk

    Kirk, think we’re looking at the beginning of a three-party political system?

  • Joe

    Kirk – It was interesting, but I think one of the reasons Ryan was chosen is because he has street credibility with a lot of the tea party folks (those that are most focused on fiscal/monetary policy). If the Tea Party is ever going to be about ideas and not just be about not liking ideas, they are going to have to embrace someone with substance – like Ryan.

  • Joe

    Kirk – It was interesting, but I think one of the reasons Ryan was chosen is because he has street credibility with a lot of the tea party folks (those that are most focused on fiscal/monetary policy). If the Tea Party is ever going to be about ideas and not just be about not liking ideas, they are going to have to embrace someone with substance – like Ryan.

  • Adriane

    Three positives: (1) John Boehner didn’t cry; (2) Joe Biden didn’t interrupt; and (3) It was also 45 minutes shorter than intended. Due to the politically correct seating arrangement, no one wanted to clap or stand up.

  • Adriane

    Three positives: (1) John Boehner didn’t cry; (2) Joe Biden didn’t interrupt; and (3) It was also 45 minutes shorter than intended. Due to the politically correct seating arrangement, no one wanted to clap or stand up.

  • Carl Vehse

    Question: How can Barry Soetero tell that his SOTU was a for-real floperewski?

    Answer: When even Andrea Mitchell mocks it. Et tu, Andrea?

  • Carl Vehse

    Question: How can Barry Soetero tell that his SOTU was a for-real floperewski?

    Answer: When even Andrea Mitchell mocks it. Et tu, Andrea?

  • Tom Hering

    I found the emphasis on technological achievement (as the savior of America) and higher education (everyone should have it) to be a silly vision of life – both personal and national.

  • Tom Hering

    I found the emphasis on technological achievement (as the savior of America) and higher education (everyone should have it) to be a silly vision of life – both personal and national.

  • WebMonk

    I was surprised at the general popularity of the speech as reflected by polls. From what I can tell, the approval rating of the speech was generally in the upper seventies to mid eighties depending on which poll you look at.

    I don’t think that the speech’s popularity is going to affect things much, because I think the speech was at least partially designed to be sort of vaguely feel-good. That certainly has its advantages, but the disadvantage is that it is quickly forgotten and doesn’t change much of anything.

  • WebMonk

    I was surprised at the general popularity of the speech as reflected by polls. From what I can tell, the approval rating of the speech was generally in the upper seventies to mid eighties depending on which poll you look at.

    I don’t think that the speech’s popularity is going to affect things much, because I think the speech was at least partially designed to be sort of vaguely feel-good. That certainly has its advantages, but the disadvantage is that it is quickly forgotten and doesn’t change much of anything.

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in 21st Century

    I didn’t watch it, but I read the transcript.
    Allusion to politically motivated violence – check
    shot at oil industry – check
    make republicans look bad about medical reform – check
    stress need to teach math and science – check
    promote new governmental education money sink – check
    blame Bush – check

    Typical Obama campaign speech all in all. Nothing new, well I do like the idea of a simplified tax code.

  • http://lutherama.blogspot.com Dr. Luther in 21st Century

    I didn’t watch it, but I read the transcript.
    Allusion to politically motivated violence – check
    shot at oil industry – check
    make republicans look bad about medical reform – check
    stress need to teach math and science – check
    promote new governmental education money sink – check
    blame Bush – check

    Typical Obama campaign speech all in all. Nothing new, well I do like the idea of a simplified tax code.

  • http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/26/the-folly-of-high-speed-rail-redux/ Carl Vehse

    In his “http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/01/25/surprising-ridiculous-moment-review-obamas-state-union-speech/”>From the Most Surprising to the Most Ridiculous Moment — A Review of Obama’s State of the Union Speech,” Kevin McCullough writes:

    His most surprising: “Some folks want wind and solar. Others want nuclear, clean coal, and natural gas. To meet this goal, we will need them all – and I urge Democrats and Republicans to work together to make it happen.”

    His best moment came early on: “What comes of this moment is up to us. What comes of this moment will be determined not by whether we can sit together tonight, but whether we can work together tomorrow.”

    His most hypocritical: “Thanks to the tax cuts we passed, Americans’ paychecks are a little bigger today.”

    His most honest: “We need to take responsibility for our deficit, and reform our government.”

    His most ridiculous: “This is our generation’s Sputnik moment.”

  • http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/26/the-folly-of-high-speed-rail-redux/ Carl Vehse

    In his “http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/01/25/surprising-ridiculous-moment-review-obamas-state-union-speech/”>From the Most Surprising to the Most Ridiculous Moment — A Review of Obama’s State of the Union Speech,” Kevin McCullough writes:

    His most surprising: “Some folks want wind and solar. Others want nuclear, clean coal, and natural gas. To meet this goal, we will need them all – and I urge Democrats and Republicans to work together to make it happen.”

    His best moment came early on: “What comes of this moment is up to us. What comes of this moment will be determined not by whether we can sit together tonight, but whether we can work together tomorrow.”

    His most hypocritical: “Thanks to the tax cuts we passed, Americans’ paychecks are a little bigger today.”

    His most honest: “We need to take responsibility for our deficit, and reform our government.”

    His most ridiculous: “This is our generation’s Sputnik moment.”

  • http:theobservationtree.blogspot.com Louis

    The Atlantic’s take on the State of the Union:

    Obama sounded like the CEO of a company in trouble: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/01/the-president-as-micromanager/70255/

  • http:theobservationtree.blogspot.com Louis

    The Atlantic’s take on the State of the Union:

    Obama sounded like the CEO of a company in trouble: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/01/the-president-as-micromanager/70255/

  • Tom Hering

    “This is our generation’s Sputnik moment” = “the Apollo mission of our time.” Sorry, but I just don’t see renewable energy programs stretching us as a nation the way the Moon program did. Renewable energy is sensible and down-to-earth. Going to the moon was the fulfillment of a wild and centuries-old dream of mankind. No comparison.

  • Tom Hering

    “This is our generation’s Sputnik moment” = “the Apollo mission of our time.” Sorry, but I just don’t see renewable energy programs stretching us as a nation the way the Moon program did. Renewable energy is sensible and down-to-earth. Going to the moon was the fulfillment of a wild and centuries-old dream of mankind. No comparison.

  • SKPeterson

    Tom -

    Renewable energy = sensible and down-to-earth? What?

    I agree that there’s no comparison to a moon shot. But placing sensible and renewable energy (sans hydro) in the same sentence is funny.

  • SKPeterson

    Tom -

    Renewable energy = sensible and down-to-earth? What?

    I agree that there’s no comparison to a moon shot. But placing sensible and renewable energy (sans hydro) in the same sentence is funny.

  • http://www.redeemedrambling.blogspot.com/ John

    On the positive side, this speech was far less sophomoric than last years – blasting the Supreme Court in the SOTU was the meanest sort of gesture I have seen from a President (I am using mean in the proper sense, fyi). On the negative, it seems that the President failed to cast coherent narrative about the actual state of the union and where he envisions us in two, five, or ten years. Not that SOTUs mean much, but I do hope we can return to the days of well crafted and pleasurable speeches.

  • http://www.redeemedrambling.blogspot.com/ John

    On the positive side, this speech was far less sophomoric than last years – blasting the Supreme Court in the SOTU was the meanest sort of gesture I have seen from a President (I am using mean in the proper sense, fyi). On the negative, it seems that the President failed to cast coherent narrative about the actual state of the union and where he envisions us in two, five, or ten years. Not that SOTUs mean much, but I do hope we can return to the days of well crafted and pleasurable speeches.

  • Porcell

    Bottom line is that Obama argued for more public investment for such things as high-speed rail and green energy without seriously addressing the spending problem, including entitlements, that has become the vital issue; this gave the address an air of unreality, though we’ve become used to him in perpetual campaign mode as opposed to governing mode. He blew a real opportunity to move to the center by seriously engaging the Republicans on fundamental spending and tax issues. He, also, rhetorically, has come around to American exceptionalism, though this contradicts his earlier fervent statements about America needing to be more restrained and humble on the world stage.

    Paul Ryan in his response focused seriously on the spending and tax issues, on both of which he is deeply knowledgeable. He, with the Roadmap for America, has developed moderate and credible solutions to the tax, spending, and entitlement issues He is the ablest of the young Republican leaders.

    The country will over the next two years have a choice between electing Republicans, who appear to be getting real about the nation’s vital problems, or sticking with the Democrats, who for the most part appear to be sticking to their ideological stance of big spending on government “investments” that in the long run could lead to a disastrous economic crisis.

    Meanwhile, we have to live for two years with a president who is fairly good at making high sounding speeches, though poor at being a governing statesman. In my view, he has been in way over his head as president from the day he took office.

  • Porcell

    Bottom line is that Obama argued for more public investment for such things as high-speed rail and green energy without seriously addressing the spending problem, including entitlements, that has become the vital issue; this gave the address an air of unreality, though we’ve become used to him in perpetual campaign mode as opposed to governing mode. He blew a real opportunity to move to the center by seriously engaging the Republicans on fundamental spending and tax issues. He, also, rhetorically, has come around to American exceptionalism, though this contradicts his earlier fervent statements about America needing to be more restrained and humble on the world stage.

    Paul Ryan in his response focused seriously on the spending and tax issues, on both of which he is deeply knowledgeable. He, with the Roadmap for America, has developed moderate and credible solutions to the tax, spending, and entitlement issues He is the ablest of the young Republican leaders.

    The country will over the next two years have a choice between electing Republicans, who appear to be getting real about the nation’s vital problems, or sticking with the Democrats, who for the most part appear to be sticking to their ideological stance of big spending on government “investments” that in the long run could lead to a disastrous economic crisis.

    Meanwhile, we have to live for two years with a president who is fairly good at making high sounding speeches, though poor at being a governing statesman. In my view, he has been in way over his head as president from the day he took office.

  • WebMonk

    And just to pile on with something else – the CBO came out with new figures on the projected budget deficits. Here’s a WP story on it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/25/AR2009082501158.html

    The nation would be forced to borrow more than $9 trillion to support President Obama’s initiatives and other federal programs over the next decade, the White House said Tuesday, a sharp increase in projected deficits….

    And, I will guarantee you that the final budget results are going to be worse than what these numbers are saying.

  • WebMonk

    And just to pile on with something else – the CBO came out with new figures on the projected budget deficits. Here’s a WP story on it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/25/AR2009082501158.html

    The nation would be forced to borrow more than $9 trillion to support President Obama’s initiatives and other federal programs over the next decade, the White House said Tuesday, a sharp increase in projected deficits….

    And, I will guarantee you that the final budget results are going to be worse than what these numbers are saying.

  • White

    Isn’t the very nature of energy that’s renewable supposed to mean that it’s more sensible in the long run?

    Seriously, does anyone have any better ideas for when we run out of fossil fuels?

  • White

    Isn’t the very nature of energy that’s renewable supposed to mean that it’s more sensible in the long run?

    Seriously, does anyone have any better ideas for when we run out of fossil fuels?

  • MikeD

    Dr. Veith,

    Just a clarification. When you said “I couldn’t this time,” do you mean you couldn’t watch it, or you couln’t consider it patriotic? I’m serious about the question.

    Thanks

  • MikeD

    Dr. Veith,

    Just a clarification. When you said “I couldn’t this time,” do you mean you couldn’t watch it, or you couln’t consider it patriotic? I’m serious about the question.

    Thanks

  • DonS

    I think the reason for the high initial poll approval ratings was that he really didn’t say anything. Liberals were relieved that he didn’t endorse entitlement reform and conservatives were glad to hear him utter some conservative sounding points and actually say a few patriotic things.

    As the vacuous nature of the speech is digested, and as the reality of the CBO report Webmonk references @ 20 sink in, the ratings will drop considerably.

  • DonS

    I think the reason for the high initial poll approval ratings was that he really didn’t say anything. Liberals were relieved that he didn’t endorse entitlement reform and conservatives were glad to hear him utter some conservative sounding points and actually say a few patriotic things.

    As the vacuous nature of the speech is digested, and as the reality of the CBO report Webmonk references @ 20 sink in, the ratings will drop considerably.

  • WebMonk

    “Republicans, who appear to be getting real about the nation’s vital problems,”

    Porcell, you’re crazier than a lune if you think that’s true (at least in economic matters). They are more “real” than Democrats about the economic issues, but if you think that Republicans even vaguely reflect reality with their economic views, then you’re high on something that’s got to be illegal everywhere but Pittsburgh. :-)

    Quick example: the deal recently brokered between Reps and Dems managed to increase the deficit by nearly half a trillion dollars all by itself. To my mind that doesn’t come even close to reflecting economic reality. And, there are lots more examples of what they’ve done that is wildly divorced from economic reality over the last 10 years.

    They’re better than the Dems in this area, but that’s like saying the March Hare is more sane than the Mad Hatter.

  • WebMonk

    “Republicans, who appear to be getting real about the nation’s vital problems,”

    Porcell, you’re crazier than a lune if you think that’s true (at least in economic matters). They are more “real” than Democrats about the economic issues, but if you think that Republicans even vaguely reflect reality with their economic views, then you’re high on something that’s got to be illegal everywhere but Pittsburgh. :-)

    Quick example: the deal recently brokered between Reps and Dems managed to increase the deficit by nearly half a trillion dollars all by itself. To my mind that doesn’t come even close to reflecting economic reality. And, there are lots more examples of what they’ve done that is wildly divorced from economic reality over the last 10 years.

    They’re better than the Dems in this area, but that’s like saying the March Hare is more sane than the Mad Hatter.

  • DonS

    White @ 21: We are many decades away from running out of fossil fuels. U.S. and world proven reserves of oil are still rising, considerably, and U.S. natural gas reserves have exploded (pun intended) just in the last three years because of new cracking technology.

    The problem with the greens is that they want to force expensive renewable technology into widespread use before it is economical and before it is ready. Wind power will never be employed in a widespread way — it is too unreliable, requires too much infrastructure for the energy return, is unsightly, and kills birds. Environmentalists hate hydroelectric because of the dams. We need to be bringing nuclear on in a widespread way, but enviros won’t let us. Solar is not ready for prime time — we need better and cheaper collector technology, which will come in a decade or so. It is also unsuited to some areas of the country.

    Renewables will come — when fossil fuels truly become scarce and thus relatively expensive.

  • DonS

    White @ 21: We are many decades away from running out of fossil fuels. U.S. and world proven reserves of oil are still rising, considerably, and U.S. natural gas reserves have exploded (pun intended) just in the last three years because of new cracking technology.

    The problem with the greens is that they want to force expensive renewable technology into widespread use before it is economical and before it is ready. Wind power will never be employed in a widespread way — it is too unreliable, requires too much infrastructure for the energy return, is unsightly, and kills birds. Environmentalists hate hydroelectric because of the dams. We need to be bringing nuclear on in a widespread way, but enviros won’t let us. Solar is not ready for prime time — we need better and cheaper collector technology, which will come in a decade or so. It is also unsuited to some areas of the country.

    Renewables will come — when fossil fuels truly become scarce and thus relatively expensive.

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    I couldn’t watch either.
    I had to… um.. groom my poodle.
    Yeah.

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    I couldn’t watch either.
    I had to… um.. groom my poodle.
    Yeah.

  • Porcell

    WebMonk, that deal brokered with Obama was the best that could be done to prevent the tax increases that would have resulted without the deal. Had those tax increases gone through, the financial markets and economy would have tanked.

    Until recently, I shared your view about the Republicans but changed when McConnell, after initially wavering, held firm and was able to get the 2011 budget through without earmarks. Also, I regard it significant that McConnell and Boehner chose Paul Ryan to respond to the SOTU address. The Republican leadership is now well aware that we are involved in a fiscal crisis that will turn into a disastrous economic crisis, much the same way as Greece, Iceland and Ireland are presently involved.

    Your cynicism about the Republicans could be well placed, though if it turns out to be correct, the country will surely suffer a major fiscal crisis. The first sign of it would likely be China and Japan bailing out of U.S. Treasury debt, followed by a financial market meltdown, followed, most likely, by a very deep recession, if not a depression. Fortunately, Paul Ryan, who has the best handle on these realities, has succeeded in waking up the Republican leadership.

  • Porcell

    WebMonk, that deal brokered with Obama was the best that could be done to prevent the tax increases that would have resulted without the deal. Had those tax increases gone through, the financial markets and economy would have tanked.

    Until recently, I shared your view about the Republicans but changed when McConnell, after initially wavering, held firm and was able to get the 2011 budget through without earmarks. Also, I regard it significant that McConnell and Boehner chose Paul Ryan to respond to the SOTU address. The Republican leadership is now well aware that we are involved in a fiscal crisis that will turn into a disastrous economic crisis, much the same way as Greece, Iceland and Ireland are presently involved.

    Your cynicism about the Republicans could be well placed, though if it turns out to be correct, the country will surely suffer a major fiscal crisis. The first sign of it would likely be China and Japan bailing out of U.S. Treasury debt, followed by a financial market meltdown, followed, most likely, by a very deep recession, if not a depression. Fortunately, Paul Ryan, who has the best handle on these realities, has succeeded in waking up the Republican leadership.

  • http:theobservationtree.blogspot.com Louis

    Webmonk @ 24 – “but that’s like saying the March Hare is more sane than the Mad Hatter.”

    That is an extremely quotable line, and made my day! :)

  • http:theobservationtree.blogspot.com Louis

    Webmonk @ 24 – “but that’s like saying the March Hare is more sane than the Mad Hatter.”

    That is an extremely quotable line, and made my day! :)

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    White, the President’s idea of renewable fuel is a plug in hybrid car that effectively runs its first 40 miles on coal.

    Do I have to say more? This is the level of thinking that passes for “erudite” in the world of alternative fuels, sad to say.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    White, the President’s idea of renewable fuel is a plug in hybrid car that effectively runs its first 40 miles on coal.

    Do I have to say more? This is the level of thinking that passes for “erudite” in the world of alternative fuels, sad to say.

  • SKPeterson

    Bubba – We’ve also been 20 years away from feasible fusion power for the last 40 years.

  • SKPeterson

    Bubba – We’ve also been 20 years away from feasible fusion power for the last 40 years.

  • WebMonk

    Bike, that’s one of the problems I have with government trying to direct particular areas of technological research – they will virtually always manage to get it ass-backwards due to political pressures.

    There are a lot of faults in the purely private research, such as not looking for solutions to problems that aren’t right in their laps, but if the alternative is our current government-directed attempt to guide manufacturing/research/development then I’ll go with privately-directed every time.

    The electric car is a prime example of the fundamentally bone-headed approach to being “green”. Other examples are biofuels in general, and corn ethanol in particular, and wind farms.

  • WebMonk

    Bike, that’s one of the problems I have with government trying to direct particular areas of technological research – they will virtually always manage to get it ass-backwards due to political pressures.

    There are a lot of faults in the purely private research, such as not looking for solutions to problems that aren’t right in their laps, but if the alternative is our current government-directed attempt to guide manufacturing/research/development then I’ll go with privately-directed every time.

    The electric car is a prime example of the fundamentally bone-headed approach to being “green”. Other examples are biofuels in general, and corn ethanol in particular, and wind farms.

  • http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/26/the-folly-of-high-speed-rail-redux/ Carl Vehse

    Here is Sen. Rand Paul’s State of the Union Response.

  • http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/26/the-folly-of-high-speed-rail-redux/ Carl Vehse

    Here is Sen. Rand Paul’s State of the Union Response.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “The electric car is a prime example of the fundamentally bone-headed approach to being “green”. ”

    Electric cars are good if you have huge amounts of surplus (and therefore cheap) hydroelectric power. So in those areas, they are super. But if you have to burn coal for the electric, then no, not so much.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “The electric car is a prime example of the fundamentally bone-headed approach to being “green”. ”

    Electric cars are good if you have huge amounts of surplus (and therefore cheap) hydroelectric power. So in those areas, they are super. But if you have to burn coal for the electric, then no, not so much.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    For us to make the next leap in energy, it is going to require some freaks of nature like Tesla and Edison who are inspired to find these breakthroughs and visionary capitalists like Westinghouse to make it happen.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    For us to make the next leap in energy, it is going to require some freaks of nature like Tesla and Edison who are inspired to find these breakthroughs and visionary capitalists like Westinghouse to make it happen.

  • DonS

    SG @ 33, 34: Yes, you are right. They are really bad if you are primarily burning natural gas to generate electricity, as we do here in CA (coal’s too dirty, you know). But, even if electricity is cheap and plentiful, electric cars have limited range and size, and are difficult to recharge in a timely way. So, they are a very limited vehicle for their (heavily subsidized) cost.

    And if you are relying on plentiful hydroelectric power to recharge your electric vehicle, make sure the greens in your area are not tearing out your dams to save the snail darter or some such fish/creature. Because, though they claim to love renewable energy, when you get specific, not so much. No dams, no solar or wind farms in the desert, no transmission lines from such farms to the consumer. In short, really, who needs electricity anyway?

    @ 34, you are right about how we will eventually achieve our next energy breakthrough. But it’s not something that can be forced by government edict or scads of government money. It will happen when it’s ready to happen, and most likely when the market is ready for it.

  • DonS

    SG @ 33, 34: Yes, you are right. They are really bad if you are primarily burning natural gas to generate electricity, as we do here in CA (coal’s too dirty, you know). But, even if electricity is cheap and plentiful, electric cars have limited range and size, and are difficult to recharge in a timely way. So, they are a very limited vehicle for their (heavily subsidized) cost.

    And if you are relying on plentiful hydroelectric power to recharge your electric vehicle, make sure the greens in your area are not tearing out your dams to save the snail darter or some such fish/creature. Because, though they claim to love renewable energy, when you get specific, not so much. No dams, no solar or wind farms in the desert, no transmission lines from such farms to the consumer. In short, really, who needs electricity anyway?

    @ 34, you are right about how we will eventually achieve our next energy breakthrough. But it’s not something that can be forced by government edict or scads of government money. It will happen when it’s ready to happen, and most likely when the market is ready for it.

  • WebMonk

    sg @ 33, yes, you’re right. I don’t see hydroelectric power anywhere in the world that is sufficient for mass electric car use, even places where hydroelectricity has been heavily developed, such as Iceland.

    The same could probably be said about electricity from nuclear power plants or solar plants. As far as I know, there isn’t anywhere like that right now.

    My best construction is that those who craft plans to move to electric cars hope that once electric cars are in place, alternative energy sources such as hydro will then be developed.

    Yes, that is my best construction, and yes, I know that still leaves them being idiots.

  • WebMonk

    sg @ 33, yes, you’re right. I don’t see hydroelectric power anywhere in the world that is sufficient for mass electric car use, even places where hydroelectricity has been heavily developed, such as Iceland.

    The same could probably be said about electricity from nuclear power plants or solar plants. As far as I know, there isn’t anywhere like that right now.

    My best construction is that those who craft plans to move to electric cars hope that once electric cars are in place, alternative energy sources such as hydro will then be developed.

    Yes, that is my best construction, and yes, I know that still leaves them being idiots.

  • Porcell

    Wind Power and ethanol would be two other examples of useless government subsidized boondoggles in the field of energy. Markets are far more sophisticated than any government in allocating scarce capital.

  • Porcell

    Wind Power and ethanol would be two other examples of useless government subsidized boondoggles in the field of energy. Markets are far more sophisticated than any government in allocating scarce capital.

  • John C

    As the recent financial crisis demonstrates, Porcell.

  • John C

    As the recent financial crisis demonstrates, Porcell.

  • DonS

    The worst part of Obama’s speech was this:

    Cutting the deficit by gutting our investments in innovation and education is like lightening an overloaded airplane by removing its engine. It may make you feel like you’re flying high at first, but it won’t take long before you’ll feel the impact.

    He actually fervently believes that government spending is the engine of the economy. That is a fundamental disconnect with actual economics and does not bode well for reining in outrageously out of control government spending and deficits.

  • DonS

    The worst part of Obama’s speech was this:

    Cutting the deficit by gutting our investments in innovation and education is like lightening an overloaded airplane by removing its engine. It may make you feel like you’re flying high at first, but it won’t take long before you’ll feel the impact.

    He actually fervently believes that government spending is the engine of the economy. That is a fundamental disconnect with actual economics and does not bode well for reining in outrageously out of control government spending and deficits.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    sg, electric cars are like nuclear fusion; they’ve been 20 years from prime time for the past few decades, and always will be. (h/t SK Peterson)

    The reason is simple; gasoline gets energy predominantly from hydrogen, atomic weight 1. Batteries need one atom of lithium (atomic weight six) per electron provided. Hence, to get the same distance with an electric car, you need ten times the weight in fuel or more.

    As an electrical engineer, I love the concept of electric cars and hybrids, but the ugly reality is that physics and chemistry make them impractical for all but extremely specialized niches.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com Bike Bubba

    sg, electric cars are like nuclear fusion; they’ve been 20 years from prime time for the past few decades, and always will be. (h/t SK Peterson)

    The reason is simple; gasoline gets energy predominantly from hydrogen, atomic weight 1. Batteries need one atom of lithium (atomic weight six) per electron provided. Hence, to get the same distance with an electric car, you need ten times the weight in fuel or more.

    As an electrical engineer, I love the concept of electric cars and hybrids, but the ugly reality is that physics and chemistry make them impractical for all but extremely specialized niches.

  • Porcell

    John C, the root of the recent financial meltdown had mainly to do with the government engendered misallocation of capital, largely through Fan and Fred, to housing market that caused a huge housing bubble that burst. Wall Street was mistaken with risk management, though the main culprit was the government.

  • Porcell

    John C, the root of the recent financial meltdown had mainly to do with the government engendered misallocation of capital, largely through Fan and Fred, to housing market that caused a huge housing bubble that burst. Wall Street was mistaken with risk management, though the main culprit was the government.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    I agree with Porcell and so do auditors at the San Francisco Federal Reserve. Basically there was this notion that home loans would turn poor credit risks into more responsible citizens. Well, turns out that there is indeed a cause to the correlation between financial responsibility and home ownership, unfortunately for the social engineers it points in the obvious direction rather than in the opposite direction as they had hoped.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    I agree with Porcell and so do auditors at the San Francisco Federal Reserve. Basically there was this notion that home loans would turn poor credit risks into more responsible citizens. Well, turns out that there is indeed a cause to the correlation between financial responsibility and home ownership, unfortunately for the social engineers it points in the obvious direction rather than in the opposite direction as they had hoped.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Bubba (@40), your analysis makes no sense and is so simplistic as to be worthless.

    You’re comparing the masses of lithium and hydrogen … why? Because all electric cars have batteries composed solely of lithium? Because gasoline is composed entirely of hydrogen? What? And are you also asserting that there is an equality of energy efficiency in both gasoline and electric motors? Maybe there’s some actual analysis that you’re only hinting at, but if so, just link to it.

    Also, for the record, I have seen infinitely (yes, literally) more electric cars (and electric charging stations) where I live than I have fusion power plants. I think that counts for something in the comparison.

    That is all I have to say on this topic, because I was at Bible study last night.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Bubba (@40), your analysis makes no sense and is so simplistic as to be worthless.

    You’re comparing the masses of lithium and hydrogen … why? Because all electric cars have batteries composed solely of lithium? Because gasoline is composed entirely of hydrogen? What? And are you also asserting that there is an equality of energy efficiency in both gasoline and electric motors? Maybe there’s some actual analysis that you’re only hinting at, but if so, just link to it.

    Also, for the record, I have seen infinitely (yes, literally) more electric cars (and electric charging stations) where I live than I have fusion power plants. I think that counts for something in the comparison.

    That is all I have to say on this topic, because I was at Bible study last night.

  • Porcell

    Todd, in addition to the technical issues, the main issue with electric cars has to do with the worth of the government subsidies.

    The estimate for the American government subsidy for the Toyota Prius is $8,000. In Japan Prius sales are melting due to a removal of government subsidies.

    George Will in a recent column on the GM Volt remarked:

    Quantities of everything – except perhaps God’s mercy, which is said to be infinite – are limited. But quantities of the Volt are going to be so limited that 44 states can only pine for Volts from afar. Good, because the federal government, which evidently is feeling flush, will give tax credits of up to $7,500 to every Volt purchaser. The Volt was conceived to appease the automotive engineers in Congress, which knows that people will have to be bribed, with other people’s money, to buy this $41,000 car that seats only four people (the 435-pound battery eats up space).

    Fortunately, the American people are waking up to the scam of government subsidies for solar, wind, ethanol, and electric vehicles. Let the market sort out the allocation of scarce capital, as opposed to government ideologues.

    You apparently are thrilled at all those electric vehicles in Washington, though they are basically connected to expensive government subsidies. In the long run electric vehicles might make sense, though best to let the markets figure this out.

    Meanwhile the government is in real danger of going broke.

  • Porcell

    Todd, in addition to the technical issues, the main issue with electric cars has to do with the worth of the government subsidies.

    The estimate for the American government subsidy for the Toyota Prius is $8,000. In Japan Prius sales are melting due to a removal of government subsidies.

    George Will in a recent column on the GM Volt remarked:

    Quantities of everything – except perhaps God’s mercy, which is said to be infinite – are limited. But quantities of the Volt are going to be so limited that 44 states can only pine for Volts from afar. Good, because the federal government, which evidently is feeling flush, will give tax credits of up to $7,500 to every Volt purchaser. The Volt was conceived to appease the automotive engineers in Congress, which knows that people will have to be bribed, with other people’s money, to buy this $41,000 car that seats only four people (the 435-pound battery eats up space).

    Fortunately, the American people are waking up to the scam of government subsidies for solar, wind, ethanol, and electric vehicles. Let the market sort out the allocation of scarce capital, as opposed to government ideologues.

    You apparently are thrilled at all those electric vehicles in Washington, though they are basically connected to expensive government subsidies. In the long run electric vehicles might make sense, though best to let the markets figure this out.

    Meanwhile the government is in real danger of going broke.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Porcell (@44),

    1) The Prius is a hybrid electric, not an electric car
    2) My response said nothing about funding issues, so to tell me that electric cars in Washington “are basically connected to expensive government subsidies” is to rebut a point no one made. I was replying to Bike Bubba’s analysis of relative distance-per-fuel-mass ratios.
    3) I have heard that gasoline, as a fuel source, is not entirely a product of unshackled markets. Sometimes, it is said, governments fight wars on behalf of sources of (what ultimately becomes) gasoline.
    4) I live in Oregon.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Porcell (@44),

    1) The Prius is a hybrid electric, not an electric car
    2) My response said nothing about funding issues, so to tell me that electric cars in Washington “are basically connected to expensive government subsidies” is to rebut a point no one made. I was replying to Bike Bubba’s analysis of relative distance-per-fuel-mass ratios.
    3) I have heard that gasoline, as a fuel source, is not entirely a product of unshackled markets. Sometimes, it is said, governments fight wars on behalf of sources of (what ultimately becomes) gasoline.
    4) I live in Oregon.

  • Jimmy Veith

    I thought it was a very good speech by a very good President.

    And in a spirit of bipartisanship, I would also like to compliment the Republicans for being respectful and for keeping their emotions in check. Apparently, having to set by a Democrat had a positive influence on their behavior.

  • Jimmy Veith

    I thought it was a very good speech by a very good President.

    And in a spirit of bipartisanship, I would also like to compliment the Republicans for being respectful and for keeping their emotions in check. Apparently, having to set by a Democrat had a positive influence on their behavior.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    tODD, I know Washington used to have extra hydroelectric power and electric was cheap. I don’t know if that is still true. Is electric pretty cheap in Oregon?

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    tODD, I know Washington used to have extra hydroelectric power and electric was cheap. I don’t know if that is still true. Is electric pretty cheap in Oregon?

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “I thought it was a very good speech by a very good President.”

    Anything in particular you liked?

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “I thought it was a very good speech by a very good President.”

    Anything in particular you liked?

  • Porcell

    Todd, glad to hear that you live in Oregon. It is true that the government mistakenly subsidizes the oil industry to a rather small degree, though that doesn’t justify any subsidy to electric or hybrid cars.

    It’s, also, true that the government unreasonably restricts drilling for oil on the mainland and offshore. The government, to boot, makes it prohibitively expensive to build safe nuclear plants. It is time for the government to reconsider all of its special-interest subsidies.

  • Porcell

    Todd, glad to hear that you live in Oregon. It is true that the government mistakenly subsidizes the oil industry to a rather small degree, though that doesn’t justify any subsidy to electric or hybrid cars.

    It’s, also, true that the government unreasonably restricts drilling for oil on the mainland and offshore. The government, to boot, makes it prohibitively expensive to build safe nuclear plants. It is time for the government to reconsider all of its special-interest subsidies.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    SG (@47), I don’t have an electric bill in front of me, and even if I did, I wouldn’t be sure if my electricity rates are indicative of all of Oregon, or whether they’d be considered “cheap”.

    I do know that, while much (most?) of our electricity is from hydropower, there’s also a coal plant in eastern Oregon that provides some portion of it, as well. I also know that Portland General Electric will be shutting down that coal plant in the next few decades.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    SG (@47), I don’t have an electric bill in front of me, and even if I did, I wouldn’t be sure if my electricity rates are indicative of all of Oregon, or whether they’d be considered “cheap”.

    I do know that, while much (most?) of our electricity is from hydropower, there’s also a coal plant in eastern Oregon that provides some portion of it, as well. I also know that Portland General Electric will be shutting down that coal plant in the next few decades.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    table of energy rates

    Oregon is one of the lowest, but that isn’t saying much because it is only about 25% lower than the national average. Some of the highest states are about 90% higher than the national average. Texas is almost exactly average. My husband has a hybrid and I have an econobox mostly because we are just so cheap. We can’t stand to spend on gas and cars.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    table of energy rates

    Oregon is one of the lowest, but that isn’t saying much because it is only about 25% lower than the national average. Some of the highest states are about 90% higher than the national average. Texas is almost exactly average. My husband has a hybrid and I have an econobox mostly because we are just so cheap. We can’t stand to spend on gas and cars.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    oops, I somehow didn’t put the link

    http://www.eia.doe.gov/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    oops, I somehow didn’t put the link

    http://www.eia.doe.gov/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html

  • Carl Vehse

    If you missed the TOTUS delivering the SOTU, Ann Coulter provides her summary in Hope, Change, and ‘Invest’, including: “The national debt is $14 trillion, the Democrats won’t stop spending, and President Nero gave us a long gaseous speech about his Stradivarius.”

    And in a rare moment of unanimity with her more conservative fellow justices, Antonin Scalia, Samuel Alito, and Clarence Thomas, who were absent , Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg expressed her opinion of Barry’s speech.

  • Carl Vehse

    If you missed the TOTUS delivering the SOTU, Ann Coulter provides her summary in Hope, Change, and ‘Invest’, including: “The national debt is $14 trillion, the Democrats won’t stop spending, and President Nero gave us a long gaseous speech about his Stradivarius.”

    And in a rare moment of unanimity with her more conservative fellow justices, Antonin Scalia, Samuel Alito, and Clarence Thomas, who were absent , Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg expressed her opinion of Barry’s speech.

  • Carl Vehse

    Sarah Palin analyses Barry Soetero’s SOTU on Fox News. Before getting into the details, Palin commented:

    “That was a tough speech to sit through and try to stomach… His theme in the State of the Union was W.T.F. – ‘Winning The Future’ That acronym? Spot on! There were a lot of W.T.F. moments throughout that speech… he is so disconnected from reality.”

    Fantastic! Whenever Americans think of Barry Soetero and what he is doing to the U.S., they should think W.T.F.

  • Carl Vehse

    Sarah Palin analyses Barry Soetero’s SOTU on Fox News. Before getting into the details, Palin commented:

    “That was a tough speech to sit through and try to stomach… His theme in the State of the Union was W.T.F. – ‘Winning The Future’ That acronym? Spot on! There were a lot of W.T.F. moments throughout that speech… he is so disconnected from reality.”

    Fantastic! Whenever Americans think of Barry Soetero and what he is doing to the U.S., they should think W.T.F.

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    WTF = “Welcome To Facebook.”

    When will we be able to say, “WTF” to Dr. Veith?

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    WTF = “Welcome To Facebook.”

    When will we be able to say, “WTF” to Dr. Veith?

  • http://carolmsblog.blogspot.com/ Carol-Christian Soldier

    could not watch bho-lie w/a smile…either
    C-CS

  • http://carolmsblog.blogspot.com/ Carol-Christian Soldier

    could not watch bho-lie w/a smile…either
    C-CS

  • http://theoldadam.wordpress.com Steve Martin

    I always have a difficult time in watching the Narcissist in Chief.

    To say that this man is full of himself is an understatement. I think he loves to hear himself speak.

    I did hear that he wants to cut spending. And spend more.

    Brilliant.

  • http://theoldadam.wordpress.com Steve Martin

    I always have a difficult time in watching the Narcissist in Chief.

    To say that this man is full of himself is an understatement. I think he loves to hear himself speak.

    I did hear that he wants to cut spending. And spend more.

    Brilliant.

  • WebMonk

    Oregon gets 57.6% of its electricity from hydroelectric sources.

    http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/st_profiles/oregon.html
    (look at the spreadsheet for item 5)

    Total energy consumption by the state is different since that includes gas for vehicles. In that measurement of total energy use, hydroelectric provides 3%, with obviously the vast majority of the total energy coming from gasoline for cars.

  • WebMonk

    Oregon gets 57.6% of its electricity from hydroelectric sources.

    http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/st_profiles/oregon.html
    (look at the spreadsheet for item 5)

    Total energy consumption by the state is different since that includes gas for vehicles. In that measurement of total energy use, hydroelectric provides 3%, with obviously the vast majority of the total energy coming from gasoline for cars.

  • Porcell

    Carl Rove has a thoughtful piece in the WSJ today, Obama vs. Ryan: The Choice Is Clear On Tuesday, Republicans offered an alternative to the president’s big-government vision, including:

    For Mr. Obama, it is business as usual. Sunny days are ahead if only government continues its spending binge. A year ago the euphemism was “stimulus.” Now it is “investment.” Most of his hour-long speech was a paean to liberal activism, as the president called for redoubling outlays on high-speed rail and “countless” green energy jobs. His single concrete proposal about cutting spending was a five-year freeze on nondefense discretionary outlays. This follows last year’s call for a three-year freeze that was never enacted.

  • Porcell

    Carl Rove has a thoughtful piece in the WSJ today, Obama vs. Ryan: The Choice Is Clear On Tuesday, Republicans offered an alternative to the president’s big-government vision, including:

    For Mr. Obama, it is business as usual. Sunny days are ahead if only government continues its spending binge. A year ago the euphemism was “stimulus.” Now it is “investment.” Most of his hour-long speech was a paean to liberal activism, as the president called for redoubling outlays on high-speed rail and “countless” green energy jobs. His single concrete proposal about cutting spending was a five-year freeze on nondefense discretionary outlays. This follows last year’s call for a three-year freeze that was never enacted.

  • Jimmy Veith

    To Carl @ 53. Sarah Palin’s comment about the President’s speech is nothing more than profanity.

    Whether you support her political philosophy or not, she should not be taken seriously as a potential presidential candidate. With her self-centered comments after the Tucson shootings and this comment, it is clear to me that she is the one who is “disconnected from reality”.

  • Jimmy Veith

    To Carl @ 53. Sarah Palin’s comment about the President’s speech is nothing more than profanity.

    Whether you support her political philosophy or not, she should not be taken seriously as a potential presidential candidate. With her self-centered comments after the Tucson shootings and this comment, it is clear to me that she is the one who is “disconnected from reality”.

  • Carl Vehse

    Jimmy @59,

    Potential presidential candidate, Sarah Palin, was clear in her interview when referring to Barry Soetero’s “Winning the Future.” Calling her comment “nothing more than profanity” is not only untruthful, it doesn’t agree with the MSM’s call for “civility”. Maybe you can succeed in the future to make your comments about Sarah Palin be a little more civil.

    In the meantime, to all those spending “investments” promoted by Barry in his SOTU we can all respond loudly, “W.T.F.!”

  • Carl Vehse

    Jimmy @59,

    Potential presidential candidate, Sarah Palin, was clear in her interview when referring to Barry Soetero’s “Winning the Future.” Calling her comment “nothing more than profanity” is not only untruthful, it doesn’t agree with the MSM’s call for “civility”. Maybe you can succeed in the future to make your comments about Sarah Palin be a little more civil.

    In the meantime, to all those spending “investments” promoted by Barry in his SOTU we can all respond loudly, “W.T.F.!”

  • WebMonk

    Jimmy, Vehse is our resident clymer troll. Ignore him. Everyone else does.

  • WebMonk

    Jimmy, Vehse is our resident clymer troll. Ignore him. Everyone else does.

  • Carl Vehse

    Ish da, Webmonk!! Does your mommy know you’ve been using such language on the internet?

  • Carl Vehse

    Ish da, Webmonk!! Does your mommy know you’ve been using such language on the internet?

  • Porcell

    WebMonk, Carl Vehse is far from the clymer troll of this blog. That link that he provided at 53 of Sarah Palin’s thoughtful video response to the SOTU address was well worth watching.

  • Porcell

    WebMonk, Carl Vehse is far from the clymer troll of this blog. That link that he provided at 53 of Sarah Palin’s thoughtful video response to the SOTU address was well worth watching.

  • Grace

    An interesting article from U.S. News & World Report

    Obama’s State of the Union Was Tantamount to Plagiarism

    By Alvin Felzenberg January 26, 2011

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/alvin-felzenberg/2011/01/26/obamas-state-of-the-union-was-tantamount-to-plagiarism

  • Grace

    An interesting article from U.S. News & World Report

    Obama’s State of the Union Was Tantamount to Plagiarism

    By Alvin Felzenberg January 26, 2011

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/alvin-felzenberg/2011/01/26/obamas-state-of-the-union-was-tantamount-to-plagiarism

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    There is no troll but Vehse, and Porcell is his prophet.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    There is no troll but Vehse, and Porcell is his prophet.

  • Grace

    Which ‘rag mag’ do you represent? – I know, you do the whole thing for FREE, what a sport!

  • Grace

    Which ‘rag mag’ do you represent? – I know, you do the whole thing for FREE, what a sport!

  • Porcell

    Todd, at 65, thanks, while I wouldn’t presume to be a prophet of any kind, I do respect Carl Vehse, especially for his irreverence regarding the usual pieties of this blog. He is a master of yanking the chain of righteous liberals.

  • Porcell

    Todd, at 65, thanks, while I wouldn’t presume to be a prophet of any kind, I do respect Carl Vehse, especially for his irreverence regarding the usual pieties of this blog. He is a master of yanking the chain of righteous liberals.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Michael Lind at salon.com has an interesting take on the president’s speech.

    http://www.salon.com/news/economics/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2011/01/25/lind_myth_china

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Michael Lind at salon.com has an interesting take on the president’s speech.

    http://www.salon.com/news/economics/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2011/01/25/lind_myth_china

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Porcell (@68), “… blah blah blah his opinions agree with mine, so I will proclaim my respect for him, in spite of the fact that all he’s capable of typing is spittle-flecked playground taunts.”

    So tell me, Porcell, do you respect me for also irreverantly challenging the pieties of many commenters on this blog, and for yanking the chains of not a few self-righteous “conservatives”?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Porcell (@68), “… blah blah blah his opinions agree with mine, so I will proclaim my respect for him, in spite of the fact that all he’s capable of typing is spittle-flecked playground taunts.”

    So tell me, Porcell, do you respect me for also irreverantly challenging the pieties of many commenters on this blog, and for yanking the chains of not a few self-righteous “conservatives”?

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “do you respect me for also irreverantly challenging the pieties of many commenters on this blog, and for yanking the chains of not a few self-righteous “conservatives”?”

    I do.

    It keeps folks honest and makes it interesting and not such an echo chamber.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “do you respect me for also irreverantly challenging the pieties of many commenters on this blog, and for yanking the chains of not a few self-righteous “conservatives”?”

    I do.

    It keeps folks honest and makes it interesting and not such an echo chamber.

  • http://Www.Toddstadler.com tODD

    Well thank you, SG (@71), that was very kind, but my intent was not to campaign for respect, of course. 

    Rather, I am curious how consistent Porcell is in doling out his “respect”, and if something other than his claimed reasons might inform such.

  • http://Www.Toddstadler.com tODD

    Well thank you, SG (@71), that was very kind, but my intent was not to campaign for respect, of course. 

    Rather, I am curious how consistent Porcell is in doling out his “respect”, and if something other than his claimed reasons might inform such.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “Rather, I am curious how consistent Porcell is in doling out his “respect”, and if something other than his claimed reasons might inform such.”

    Eh, I don’t know. It is pretty hard to play devil’s advocate. Folks who are truly committed to a point of view are going to really challenge opposing positions much more than just the disinterested observer more often than not. Probably better just to have more points of view than to have people try to be totally “fair” to all parties/positions. I figure no matter how weak the argument, better to get it out there, and have folks chew it up than supress it with deferential politeness. Save that for Grandma. Porcell is not the moderator. He can’t censor anyone, and the points he makes give others the specific targets to support/rebut. It’s all good. Digging for the truth gets messy.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “Rather, I am curious how consistent Porcell is in doling out his “respect”, and if something other than his claimed reasons might inform such.”

    Eh, I don’t know. It is pretty hard to play devil’s advocate. Folks who are truly committed to a point of view are going to really challenge opposing positions much more than just the disinterested observer more often than not. Probably better just to have more points of view than to have people try to be totally “fair” to all parties/positions. I figure no matter how weak the argument, better to get it out there, and have folks chew it up than supress it with deferential politeness. Save that for Grandma. Porcell is not the moderator. He can’t censor anyone, and the points he makes give others the specific targets to support/rebut. It’s all good. Digging for the truth gets messy.

  • Simone

    I watched the entire speech, unfortunately. It was self-contradictory, boring, and flat.

  • Simone

    I watched the entire speech, unfortunately. It was self-contradictory, boring, and flat.


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