Birther certificate

President Obama has released his birth certificate, showing that he was, in fact, born in Hawaii and is thus constitutionally eligible to be President.

One would think this would put the birther theories to rest, but already it appears that they are unfalsifiable, that no evidence will satisfy the true believers that President Obama is not an American.

See this for a closeup of the certificate: Will Release Of Obama’s Purported Birth Certificate Give Rise To New “Certer” Movement? | The Smoking Gun.

Those of you who had your doubts, does this satisfy you?  If not, what would?

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • SKPeterson

    It was obviously forged – look at the type! The man is an auslander and needs to be purged. Our entire way of life is at jeopardy.

  • SKPeterson

    It was obviously forged – look at the type! The man is an auslander and needs to be purged. Our entire way of life is at jeopardy.

  • WebMonk

    I’m tempted to say the political strategists in the President’s corner are geniuses as to the timing and style of release. This is what the birthers have been calling for, and yet everyone knows it won’t satisfy the hard-core, and so they’ll continue to reject it, looking more and more ridiculous all the time and continuing to drag down his political opponents.

    If he had truly wanted to put all questions to rest (except for the truly lunatic fringe) he would have had the physical original made available to a couple dozen reporters and a couple experts in document forgery.

    Then they would all be able to give rock-solid evidence and testimony beyond all doubt (except for the lunatic fringe, of course). But, why would the democratic strategists do that since the birther groups are a gift that keeps on giving to them?

    As it is, the birthers as a whole have a straw to grab onto, still. About thirty minutes after I read the news, I also read a birther claiming that the image document was a fake because it has different layers if you look at the deeper metadata of the document.

    The layers are there from the scanning process, I would assume. I know the PDFs I work with that come from OCR scanning have multiple layers.

    But, common sense is in short supply in the birther camps, so a common sense answer won’t satisfy them.

    I think the Miller guy needs to come take their beer away – no common sense beer for them!

  • WebMonk

    I’m tempted to say the political strategists in the President’s corner are geniuses as to the timing and style of release. This is what the birthers have been calling for, and yet everyone knows it won’t satisfy the hard-core, and so they’ll continue to reject it, looking more and more ridiculous all the time and continuing to drag down his political opponents.

    If he had truly wanted to put all questions to rest (except for the truly lunatic fringe) he would have had the physical original made available to a couple dozen reporters and a couple experts in document forgery.

    Then they would all be able to give rock-solid evidence and testimony beyond all doubt (except for the lunatic fringe, of course). But, why would the democratic strategists do that since the birther groups are a gift that keeps on giving to them?

    As it is, the birthers as a whole have a straw to grab onto, still. About thirty minutes after I read the news, I also read a birther claiming that the image document was a fake because it has different layers if you look at the deeper metadata of the document.

    The layers are there from the scanning process, I would assume. I know the PDFs I work with that come from OCR scanning have multiple layers.

    But, common sense is in short supply in the birther camps, so a common sense answer won’t satisfy them.

    I think the Miller guy needs to come take their beer away – no common sense beer for them!

  • Abby

    SK @ #1: :)

  • Abby

    SK @ #1: :)

  • Carl Vehse

    Dan Rather was interviewed at his evening job at Kinkos and he said the BC looks real to him; so that should settle it.

    Dan also said the US passport Barry Soetoro used in 1981 to travel to Pakistan will be ready in a week.

  • Carl Vehse

    Dan Rather was interviewed at his evening job at Kinkos and he said the BC looks real to him; so that should settle it.

    Dan also said the US passport Barry Soetoro used in 1981 to travel to Pakistan will be ready in a week.

  • Tom Hering

    Yes, SKPeterson @ 1. Look at the hour,”7:24 P.M.” The “M” is clearly subscript. What typewriter was capable of doing that in 1961? Hmm? :-D

  • Tom Hering

    Yes, SKPeterson @ 1. Look at the hour,”7:24 P.M.” The “M” is clearly subscript. What typewriter was capable of doing that in 1961? Hmm? :-D

  • Dan Kempin

    The question for me still remains: If this is such a simple matter, such “silliness,” and here is the document to prove just how childish the charge, then why was it not released long before now?

    I must conclude that this is nothing more than a political stunt. (One that has rather fizzled, in the end.)

    As for the true radicals and conspiracy theorists, these we will always have among us. I suspect, though, that there are a lot of reasonable people out there saying, “Well, if it was this easy to resolve all along, why has this non-story been churning for the past three years?”

  • Dan Kempin

    The question for me still remains: If this is such a simple matter, such “silliness,” and here is the document to prove just how childish the charge, then why was it not released long before now?

    I must conclude that this is nothing more than a political stunt. (One that has rather fizzled, in the end.)

    As for the true radicals and conspiracy theorists, these we will always have among us. I suspect, though, that there are a lot of reasonable people out there saying, “Well, if it was this easy to resolve all along, why has this non-story been churning for the past three years?”

  • MichaelZ

    @Dan#6
    Because the Birthers are the laughingstock of American politics. The longer Obama held out on it the more the American public could think they were crazy loons.
    I think the President’s hand was forced a little bit by a mainstream candidate/celebrity raising doubts about it. Suddenly people might give credence to it if a highly successful TV and Business mogul is asking about it.

  • MichaelZ

    @Dan#6
    Because the Birthers are the laughingstock of American politics. The longer Obama held out on it the more the American public could think they were crazy loons.
    I think the President’s hand was forced a little bit by a mainstream candidate/celebrity raising doubts about it. Suddenly people might give credence to it if a highly successful TV and Business mogul is asking about it.

  • Jeff

    Unfortunately it’s not just a “fringe” element who holds this view. 45% of Republicans think that Obama was not born in the US. Of course, these same people also think that Obama is a Muslim and socialist. Thanks, Fox News. (source: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20056061-503544.html)

  • Jeff

    Unfortunately it’s not just a “fringe” element who holds this view. 45% of Republicans think that Obama was not born in the US. Of course, these same people also think that Obama is a Muslim and socialist. Thanks, Fox News. (source: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20056061-503544.html)

  • Tom Hering

    What MichaelZ said @ 7. And now Trump is taking credit for putting the issue to rest. So we can move ahead with more important issues. Like, where do strands of Trump’s hair start and stop – in which direction are they actually flowing?

  • Tom Hering

    What MichaelZ said @ 7. And now Trump is taking credit for putting the issue to rest. So we can move ahead with more important issues. Like, where do strands of Trump’s hair start and stop – in which direction are they actually flowing?

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Some speculate the timing was perfect because folks paid less attention to Bernanke.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Some speculate the timing was perfect because folks paid less attention to Bernanke.

  • collie

    I always thought that presidential candidates needed to prove that both parents were American-born, but I’ve concluded that this idea was wrong; I don’t know where I picked it up. Maybe it has to do with the interpretation of what is a *natural born citizen*. Obama’s father was a British subject, and this fact has never been denied.

    The offensive thing to me in all of this is that the president held on to this document instead of just releasing it from day one. As many people have pointed out, parents of soccer players have to produce this very same document so their kids can play travel soccer – why can’t the president do it?

    Meanwhile, the press investigates into every nook and cranny of George Bush’s life and practically turns his underwear inside-out looking for disqualifiers.

    Politics is maddening and not for sissies. For my part, and I hate to say it, many times I choose the ostrich approach (burying my head in the sand) and ignore the news. I try real hard to busy myself with all my other vocations in life – a much more rewarding pursuit.

  • collie

    I always thought that presidential candidates needed to prove that both parents were American-born, but I’ve concluded that this idea was wrong; I don’t know where I picked it up. Maybe it has to do with the interpretation of what is a *natural born citizen*. Obama’s father was a British subject, and this fact has never been denied.

    The offensive thing to me in all of this is that the president held on to this document instead of just releasing it from day one. As many people have pointed out, parents of soccer players have to produce this very same document so their kids can play travel soccer – why can’t the president do it?

    Meanwhile, the press investigates into every nook and cranny of George Bush’s life and practically turns his underwear inside-out looking for disqualifiers.

    Politics is maddening and not for sissies. For my part, and I hate to say it, many times I choose the ostrich approach (burying my head in the sand) and ignore the news. I try real hard to busy myself with all my other vocations in life – a much more rewarding pursuit.

  • WebMonk

    Collie, the term “natural born citizen” is a bit nebulous and has had a couple revisions as to its particular definition. In general, if one of your parents is a US citizen (at time of birth), or if you are born in the US, you are a naturalized citizen. This has changed in some details covering odd situations over time, but this is the general rule of thumb.

    I started giving a longer post, but probably no one is interested. If by some chance someone is interested, you can probably check out Wikipedia on the subject. I haven’t checked that site on this topic, but it is probably pretty good.

  • WebMonk

    Collie, the term “natural born citizen” is a bit nebulous and has had a couple revisions as to its particular definition. In general, if one of your parents is a US citizen (at time of birth), or if you are born in the US, you are a naturalized citizen. This has changed in some details covering odd situations over time, but this is the general rule of thumb.

    I started giving a longer post, but probably no one is interested. If by some chance someone is interested, you can probably check out Wikipedia on the subject. I haven’t checked that site on this topic, but it is probably pretty good.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    I agree with Obama’s statement that we should focus on other things.

    Like the dollar:

    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=185119#discuss

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    I agree with Obama’s statement that we should focus on other things.

    Like the dollar:

    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=185119#discuss

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    oops, this one links to the top of the page.

    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=185119

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    oops, this one links to the top of the page.

    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=185119

  • collie

    Webmonk, I am interested, so if you have time, please post what you know about it.

  • collie

    Webmonk, I am interested, so if you have time, please post what you know about it.

  • http://theobservationtree.blogspot.com Louis

    Well, to answer Veith’s question above, someone yesterday, in relation to this issue, quoted Jonathan Swift: You cannot argue somebody out of something they didn’t argue themselves into.

  • http://theobservationtree.blogspot.com Louis

    Well, to answer Veith’s question above, someone yesterday, in relation to this issue, quoted Jonathan Swift: You cannot argue somebody out of something they didn’t argue themselves into.

  • Joe

    I have taken the president at his word through out this process, but at the policy level I support the idea that the candidate should have to demonstrate he is eligible for office. There are only three requirements:

    1. be at least 35 years old,
    2. have been a resident of the US for 14 years
    3. be a natural born citizen (the text of the Constitution distinguishes between natural born citizen and naturalized citizen but does not define either term).

    US Const. Art. II, Sec. 1. This should not be hard for anyone to prove and it probably would have prevented this issue from getting any traction beyond the extreme fringe if, as a matter of routine, a candidate had to provide proof to get on the ballot.

  • Joe

    I have taken the president at his word through out this process, but at the policy level I support the idea that the candidate should have to demonstrate he is eligible for office. There are only three requirements:

    1. be at least 35 years old,
    2. have been a resident of the US for 14 years
    3. be a natural born citizen (the text of the Constitution distinguishes between natural born citizen and naturalized citizen but does not define either term).

    US Const. Art. II, Sec. 1. This should not be hard for anyone to prove and it probably would have prevented this issue from getting any traction beyond the extreme fringe if, as a matter of routine, a candidate had to provide proof to get on the ballot.

  • Joe

    Webmonk – be precises here, naturalized and natural born are not the same thing. Our courts have adopted the English Common Law test from natural born citizenship which requires that you be born on a peace of land that belongs to the US and that your parents are not agents of a foreign gov’t. But there are areas around the edges that are not completely clear (like John McCain’s birth at a Naval hospital in the Canal Zone – which was not technically a US territory although it was under our control).

  • Joe

    Webmonk – be precises here, naturalized and natural born are not the same thing. Our courts have adopted the English Common Law test from natural born citizenship which requires that you be born on a peace of land that belongs to the US and that your parents are not agents of a foreign gov’t. But there are areas around the edges that are not completely clear (like John McCain’s birth at a Naval hospital in the Canal Zone – which was not technically a US territory although it was under our control).

  • Joe

    Okay – typos abound. Can we get that preview feature?

  • Joe

    Okay – typos abound. Can we get that preview feature?

  • Dave

    It’s a stupid political stunt by a president that never stops campaigning. He held onto it until it was politically advantageous for him to release it (he said himself he’s been watching it for a long time). Politicians are such a joke. Do your job!

  • Dave

    It’s a stupid political stunt by a president that never stops campaigning. He held onto it until it was politically advantageous for him to release it (he said himself he’s been watching it for a long time). Politicians are such a joke. Do your job!

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    Irrelevant. His certificate, or lack thereof, does not validate his political stances and principles (or lack thereof).

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    Irrelevant. His certificate, or lack thereof, does not validate his political stances and principles (or lack thereof).

  • WebMonk

    Joe 18, yes, there is a definite difference between “natural born” and “naturalized” citizens. Hopefully I never suggested otherwise.

    A natural born citizen has been legally defined in a couple court cases and with a couple laws passed.

    If you were born in this country, you are a “natural born” citizen even if neither of your parents were citizens. That was established in common laws long before the US was a country, and the SCOTUS confirmed that very early on in our country’s history. This was later explicitly added to the Constitution in the 14th amendment.

    There have been several clarifications in cases and laws to deal with things like territories, reservations, embassies, diplomats, bases, etc. I checked Wikipedia and they cover the cases that detail those special situatios; if you want all the details head on over there.

    I simplified the situation with children born of US citizens. In 99% of the cases, if one is a US citizen, then one’s children are “natural born” US citizens as well. There are some caveats to that, though, and they’re too numerous and detailed to list in a blog comment. Wikipedia covers most of them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States#Statute.2C_by_parentage

    There are also some differences between US nationals and US citizens. (not meaning the Washington Nationals baseball team :-) ) Those situations arise when some of the US’s outlying territories and possessions are involved, such as American Samoa. There are also some fine details involving people born in places that later became states and territories.

    As far as renouncing citizenship, you have to be over 18, generally. In President Obama’s case, some nuts have claimed that even if he was born in Hawaii, he lost his citizenship by actions by his parents. That’s a load of *beep*.

    law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1481.html
    Specific phrase from that section of code which is stated numerous times: after having attained the age of eighteen years.

  • WebMonk

    Joe 18, yes, there is a definite difference between “natural born” and “naturalized” citizens. Hopefully I never suggested otherwise.

    A natural born citizen has been legally defined in a couple court cases and with a couple laws passed.

    If you were born in this country, you are a “natural born” citizen even if neither of your parents were citizens. That was established in common laws long before the US was a country, and the SCOTUS confirmed that very early on in our country’s history. This was later explicitly added to the Constitution in the 14th amendment.

    There have been several clarifications in cases and laws to deal with things like territories, reservations, embassies, diplomats, bases, etc. I checked Wikipedia and they cover the cases that detail those special situatios; if you want all the details head on over there.

    I simplified the situation with children born of US citizens. In 99% of the cases, if one is a US citizen, then one’s children are “natural born” US citizens as well. There are some caveats to that, though, and they’re too numerous and detailed to list in a blog comment. Wikipedia covers most of them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States#Statute.2C_by_parentage

    There are also some differences between US nationals and US citizens. (not meaning the Washington Nationals baseball team :-) ) Those situations arise when some of the US’s outlying territories and possessions are involved, such as American Samoa. There are also some fine details involving people born in places that later became states and territories.

    As far as renouncing citizenship, you have to be over 18, generally. In President Obama’s case, some nuts have claimed that even if he was born in Hawaii, he lost his citizenship by actions by his parents. That’s a load of *beep*.

    law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1481.html
    Specific phrase from that section of code which is stated numerous times: after having attained the age of eighteen years.

  • Joe

    Webmonk – “In 99% of the cases, if one is a US citizen, then one’s children are “natural born” US citizens as well.” This is not accurate. Being a citizen and being a natural born citizen are not that same thing. Also, the wiki-page you link to does not say otherwise. Birth right citizenship is not the same as being a natural born citizen.

  • Joe

    Webmonk – “In 99% of the cases, if one is a US citizen, then one’s children are “natural born” US citizens as well.” This is not accurate. Being a citizen and being a natural born citizen are not that same thing. Also, the wiki-page you link to does not say otherwise. Birth right citizenship is not the same as being a natural born citizen.

  • WebMonk

    Joe, note the 99% phrase I mentioned. For the VAST majority (probably 99.99%) of US citizens, their children will indeed be “natural born”. I think I also stated Wikipedia covers “most” of the caveats and exceptions, not all. And, I also mentioned more than a few times that I was not covering all the possible exception situations. And for the “birth right citizenship” not being the same as “natural born” citizen, go back and look at my “99%” phrase.

    So, what’s your point?

    If you want to start spelling out all the extremely small percentage situations where children of “citizens” will not be “natural born” citizens, go right ahead. It’ll be a long list.

  • WebMonk

    Joe, note the 99% phrase I mentioned. For the VAST majority (probably 99.99%) of US citizens, their children will indeed be “natural born”. I think I also stated Wikipedia covers “most” of the caveats and exceptions, not all. And, I also mentioned more than a few times that I was not covering all the possible exception situations. And for the “birth right citizenship” not being the same as “natural born” citizen, go back and look at my “99%” phrase.

    So, what’s your point?

    If you want to start spelling out all the extremely small percentage situations where children of “citizens” will not be “natural born” citizens, go right ahead. It’ll be a long list.

  • nqb

    I think the next big movement will be the “Staters.” So he was born in Hawaii… But is Hawaii even a state?? You can’t even drive there from the United States! How exactly is that United??

  • nqb

    I think the next big movement will be the “Staters.” So he was born in Hawaii… But is Hawaii even a state?? You can’t even drive there from the United States! How exactly is that United??

  • DonS

    I’m with Dan @ 6, and others, in saying that Obama should have released the birth certificate right away.

    And, MichaelZ @ 7, there is something creepy about a president who deliberately calculates ways to make fellow citizens look like “crazy loons”. If they do it to themselves, so be it. But to deliberately engender and foster it for crassly political purposes is immature and very unpresidential.

    I like the concept of requiring presidential candidates to evidence that they meet the requirements for office up front, before they are eligible for the presidential ballot in each state. Let’s put an end to this nonsense.

  • DonS

    I’m with Dan @ 6, and others, in saying that Obama should have released the birth certificate right away.

    And, MichaelZ @ 7, there is something creepy about a president who deliberately calculates ways to make fellow citizens look like “crazy loons”. If they do it to themselves, so be it. But to deliberately engender and foster it for crassly political purposes is immature and very unpresidential.

    I like the concept of requiring presidential candidates to evidence that they meet the requirements for office up front, before they are eligible for the presidential ballot in each state. Let’s put an end to this nonsense.

  • WebMonk

    Should have released it right away at the first moment in a perfect world. As far as typical political maneuvering goes, though, I think this handling of the birther stuff merely rates a middling level of manipulation – typical stuff by the standards of our politicians of all stripes. Some may see it as particularly nasty maneuvering, but as for me it seems about normal. Not good/nice/proper/upstanding, but normal for our politics.

    The response to it, though – yeah, that was so incredibly helpful to Obama that there was no way they were going to stop if they didn’t have to. If the birthers were going to keep making themselves look silly over it, then I can see why the president’s strategists kept playing them along.

    The way the republican strategists should have played it was to go get evidence themselves and post it up nice and large as soon as they realized they were getting smeared by their association with the birthers. If the President was going to let the birthers keep hanging themselves, then the Republican strategists should have been doing everything they could to cut the rope, so to speak.

    As it was, they were nervous (and understandably so) about ticking off a sizeable chunk of their constituency that were/are birthers. In the long run, though, I think they would have been better off to go track down solid evidence on their own and post it strongly – it would have annoyed the birthers of the time, but I think most of them would have gotten over it, and then there wouldn’t have been the constant association with conspiracy theory wingnuts that has dragged on them for so long.

    But, it’s easier to look back at things and say what should have been done than to decide what to do in the middle of the situation.

    Standard (not good) political maneuvering and manipulation, IMO, and Obama’s side came out on top.

  • WebMonk

    Should have released it right away at the first moment in a perfect world. As far as typical political maneuvering goes, though, I think this handling of the birther stuff merely rates a middling level of manipulation – typical stuff by the standards of our politicians of all stripes. Some may see it as particularly nasty maneuvering, but as for me it seems about normal. Not good/nice/proper/upstanding, but normal for our politics.

    The response to it, though – yeah, that was so incredibly helpful to Obama that there was no way they were going to stop if they didn’t have to. If the birthers were going to keep making themselves look silly over it, then I can see why the president’s strategists kept playing them along.

    The way the republican strategists should have played it was to go get evidence themselves and post it up nice and large as soon as they realized they were getting smeared by their association with the birthers. If the President was going to let the birthers keep hanging themselves, then the Republican strategists should have been doing everything they could to cut the rope, so to speak.

    As it was, they were nervous (and understandably so) about ticking off a sizeable chunk of their constituency that were/are birthers. In the long run, though, I think they would have been better off to go track down solid evidence on their own and post it strongly – it would have annoyed the birthers of the time, but I think most of them would have gotten over it, and then there wouldn’t have been the constant association with conspiracy theory wingnuts that has dragged on them for so long.

    But, it’s easier to look back at things and say what should have been done than to decide what to do in the middle of the situation.

    Standard (not good) political maneuvering and manipulation, IMO, and Obama’s side came out on top.

  • Carl Vehse

    The question about Steve Dunham’s citizenship is being discussed widely on blog sites, with political repercussions in the U.S. Some people still have doubts about his citizenship; however one well-known American has indicated he will be making the following announcement about his own citizenship:

    “I intend to speak before the United Nations tomorrow and inform that I am renouncing my U.S. citizenship. I’m tired of having my actions construed as instruments of U.S. policy. ‘Truth, Justice, and the American way’ – it’s not enough anymore.”

    More at the blog site, “Superman Renounces,” or in Action Comics, Issue #900.

  • Carl Vehse

    The question about Steve Dunham’s citizenship is being discussed widely on blog sites, with political repercussions in the U.S. Some people still have doubts about his citizenship; however one well-known American has indicated he will be making the following announcement about his own citizenship:

    “I intend to speak before the United Nations tomorrow and inform that I am renouncing my U.S. citizenship. I’m tired of having my actions construed as instruments of U.S. policy. ‘Truth, Justice, and the American way’ – it’s not enough anymore.”

    More at the blog site, “Superman Renounces,” or in Action Comics, Issue #900.

  • DonS

    To clarify, I don’t believe the delay in releasing his birth certificate is redounding to Obama’s benefit. Reportedly, the administration released it now because of growing concern that the issue is taking hold. It’s not just Republicans who doubt in substantial numbers, but also independents. The question is whether they waited too long, playing political games with the issue.

  • DonS

    To clarify, I don’t believe the delay in releasing his birth certificate is redounding to Obama’s benefit. Reportedly, the administration released it now because of growing concern that the issue is taking hold. It’s not just Republicans who doubt in substantial numbers, but also independents. The question is whether they waited too long, playing political games with the issue.

  • WebMonk

    Wow Carl. I had never heard the “Steve Dunham” kookiness, and I generally hear of a lot of those sorts of theories. That’s an awesome one!

  • WebMonk

    Wow Carl. I had never heard the “Steve Dunham” kookiness, and I generally hear of a lot of those sorts of theories. That’s an awesome one!

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    Collie @11 writes:
    “… parents of soccer players have to produce this very same document so their kids can play travel soccer – why can’t the president do it?”

    This is not true. Nowadays, what most people get when they request a birth certificate is just like the computer-printed transcription certificate that Obama produced back in 2007. If the state certifies you were born in the state to your specific parents, that’s what counts for official purposes; a notarized or certified photocopy of the original source document is not necessary, and never has been. In fact, there was a time when photocopies were not even possible, because the technology to make them wasn’t available yet. What people got back then were certified hand-typed (or even hand-written) transcriptions, and they were good enough for everything requiring a certificate.

    Computer generated transcription certificates we’re certainly good enough for my wife, kids and I to get US Passports, and for everything else we’ve needed birth certificates for.

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    Collie @11 writes:
    “… parents of soccer players have to produce this very same document so their kids can play travel soccer – why can’t the president do it?”

    This is not true. Nowadays, what most people get when they request a birth certificate is just like the computer-printed transcription certificate that Obama produced back in 2007. If the state certifies you were born in the state to your specific parents, that’s what counts for official purposes; a notarized or certified photocopy of the original source document is not necessary, and never has been. In fact, there was a time when photocopies were not even possible, because the technology to make them wasn’t available yet. What people got back then were certified hand-typed (or even hand-written) transcriptions, and they were good enough for everything requiring a certificate.

    Computer generated transcription certificates we’re certainly good enough for my wife, kids and I to get US Passports, and for everything else we’ve needed birth certificates for.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    DonS said (@26):

    There is something creepy about a president who deliberately calculates ways to make fellow citizens look like “crazy loons”. … But to deliberately engender and foster it for crassly political purposes is immature and very unpresidential.

    Are you saying that you know for sure that’s what’s happened, Don? Because to deliberately assert as true that which is unknown, merely for crass political purposes …

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    DonS said (@26):

    There is something creepy about a president who deliberately calculates ways to make fellow citizens look like “crazy loons”. … But to deliberately engender and foster it for crassly political purposes is immature and very unpresidential.

    Are you saying that you know for sure that’s what’s happened, Don? Because to deliberately assert as true that which is unknown, merely for crass political purposes …

  • collie

    Mike @31, you are right; but I know that in the past, sometimes I have photocopied the long form and used that when asked for verification of our sons’ birthdays. It could also be that I was asked for the *long* form by a coach or another authority when I was applying for something (which was probably improper). When requesting copies of birth certificates from either my husband’s birth state or my own, we have received a certified long copies from one, and the shortened format from the other state, so States vary in what they send out. Thanks for the correction.

    I will come out of the closet here, though, and say that I don’t believe the current document offered by the president on the White House page is a photograph of his original birth certificate. I believe he is hiding something; it could be insignificant or embarrassing and really not affect his eligibility for office. But he’s gone to absurd lengths to protect the long form from the public eye; I don’t think it’s just politics. Hope I’m wrong, for the country’s sake. You all can now tell me I’m foolish.

  • collie

    Mike @31, you are right; but I know that in the past, sometimes I have photocopied the long form and used that when asked for verification of our sons’ birthdays. It could also be that I was asked for the *long* form by a coach or another authority when I was applying for something (which was probably improper). When requesting copies of birth certificates from either my husband’s birth state or my own, we have received a certified long copies from one, and the shortened format from the other state, so States vary in what they send out. Thanks for the correction.

    I will come out of the closet here, though, and say that I don’t believe the current document offered by the president on the White House page is a photograph of his original birth certificate. I believe he is hiding something; it could be insignificant or embarrassing and really not affect his eligibility for office. But he’s gone to absurd lengths to protect the long form from the public eye; I don’t think it’s just politics. Hope I’m wrong, for the country’s sake. You all can now tell me I’m foolish.

  • Louis

    Collie, you are foolish. We all say so.

  • Louis

    Collie, you are foolish. We all say so.

  • Abernathy

    I was never more ashamed to be a white American than I was yesterday.

  • Abernathy

    I was never more ashamed to be a white American than I was yesterday.

  • Carl Vehse

    Well, Webmonk @30, here’s a chance to catch up. Dunham was the maiden name of Barry’s mom. There is some question about whether she was legally married to Barry’s father since at the time he was already married to Kezia Aoko, who was pregnant with his second child.

    As for the name, “Steve,” that was disclosed by Barry himself at the 2008 Alfred K. Smith Dinner, an annual white-tie charity fundraiser held at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, when tongue-in-cheek, Barry noted:

    “But in the spirit of full disclosure, there are a few October surprises you’ll be finding out about in the coming weeks. First of all, my middle name is not what you think. It’s actually Steve. That’s right. Barack Steve Obama.”

  • Carl Vehse

    Well, Webmonk @30, here’s a chance to catch up. Dunham was the maiden name of Barry’s mom. There is some question about whether she was legally married to Barry’s father since at the time he was already married to Kezia Aoko, who was pregnant with his second child.

    As for the name, “Steve,” that was disclosed by Barry himself at the 2008 Alfred K. Smith Dinner, an annual white-tie charity fundraiser held at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, when tongue-in-cheek, Barry noted:

    “But in the spirit of full disclosure, there are a few October surprises you’ll be finding out about in the coming weeks. First of all, my middle name is not what you think. It’s actually Steve. That’s right. Barack Steve Obama.”

  • DonS

    Abernathy @ 35: Why? What did you do? You can tell us.

  • DonS

    Abernathy @ 35: Why? What did you do? You can tell us.

  • DonS

    tODD @ 32: I think all this birther stuff is nonsense, on both sides. Much ado about nothing, and it should all have been resolved in 2008 with the prompt production of a valid birth certificate.

    To clarify, my comment @ 26 was responsive to MichaelZ’s comment @ 7, wherein he strongly implied that the president held onto his birth certificate for political purposes, to make “birthers” appear to be crazy loons, and only released it because of the pressure Trump applied. I made no accusation that those were the president’s actual intentions, and I pray that they were not. I want a mature and sober president who serves and honors all Americans.

  • DonS

    tODD @ 32: I think all this birther stuff is nonsense, on both sides. Much ado about nothing, and it should all have been resolved in 2008 with the prompt production of a valid birth certificate.

    To clarify, my comment @ 26 was responsive to MichaelZ’s comment @ 7, wherein he strongly implied that the president held onto his birth certificate for political purposes, to make “birthers” appear to be crazy loons, and only released it because of the pressure Trump applied. I made no accusation that those were the president’s actual intentions, and I pray that they were not. I want a mature and sober president who serves and honors all Americans.

  • Abernathy

    @37, You’re nauseating but I’m sure it’s all for Jesus’ sake.

  • Abernathy

    @37, You’re nauseating but I’m sure it’s all for Jesus’ sake.

  • DonS

    @ 39: I have no idea what you are talking about, but likewise. And, I hope that you feel better soon.

  • DonS

    @ 39: I have no idea what you are talking about, but likewise. And, I hope that you feel better soon.

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    Don’t feed the liberal agent provacatuer troll. There’s no reason for anyone to be ashamed of being an American, and the “white” part is irrelevant and is just an attempt to play the race card on the issue.

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    Don’t feed the liberal agent provacatuer troll. There’s no reason for anyone to be ashamed of being an American, and the “white” part is irrelevant and is just an attempt to play the race card on the issue.

  • collie

    Thanks, Louis. I think. lol

  • collie

    Thanks, Louis. I think. lol

  • Carl Vehse

    The Signature of the Local Register certainly looks legit:

    U. K. la Lee

  • Carl Vehse

    The Signature of the Local Register certainly looks legit:

    U. K. la Lee

  • Porcell

    This whole issue of Obama’s birth distracts from the more serious issue that Stanley Kurtz raised in his book, Radical in Chief: Barack Obama and the Untold Story of American Socialism, in which he compellingly argues that Obama has from his youth been died in the wool socialist who has cleverly deceived the American people about his core political views.

    The birther nutcakes play directly into Obama’s hands. Obama is a dedicated socialist who for several years taught Acorn members the principles from the Neo- Marxist, Saul Alinsky’s book, Rules for Radicals. His association with the socialist preacher, Jeremiah Wright, and the socialist Weatherman, William Ayers was deep and lasting.

    Obama is a colossal phony; this has nothing to do with is birth.

  • Porcell

    This whole issue of Obama’s birth distracts from the more serious issue that Stanley Kurtz raised in his book, Radical in Chief: Barack Obama and the Untold Story of American Socialism, in which he compellingly argues that Obama has from his youth been died in the wool socialist who has cleverly deceived the American people about his core political views.

    The birther nutcakes play directly into Obama’s hands. Obama is a dedicated socialist who for several years taught Acorn members the principles from the Neo- Marxist, Saul Alinsky’s book, Rules for Radicals. His association with the socialist preacher, Jeremiah Wright, and the socialist Weatherman, William Ayers was deep and lasting.

    Obama is a colossal phony; this has nothing to do with is birth.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Collie said (@33), “I don’t believe the current document offered by the president on the White House page is a photograph of his original birth certificate.” But no one is arguing that it’s a “photograph”. Instead, the current document offered by the president on the White House page is a PDF of what appears to be a scanned image of a photocopy of an old document onto official paper.

    Carl (@36), I can’t even tell if you’re joking anymore. You equated “disclosed” with noting something “tongue-in-cheek” in the same sentence. And you seemed so lucid on that other thread …

    DonS (@38) “on both sides”? Are there only two sides here? Anyhow, what exactly is “nonsense” from the, um, non-birther side?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Collie said (@33), “I don’t believe the current document offered by the president on the White House page is a photograph of his original birth certificate.” But no one is arguing that it’s a “photograph”. Instead, the current document offered by the president on the White House page is a PDF of what appears to be a scanned image of a photocopy of an old document onto official paper.

    Carl (@36), I can’t even tell if you’re joking anymore. You equated “disclosed” with noting something “tongue-in-cheek” in the same sentence. And you seemed so lucid on that other thread …

    DonS (@38) “on both sides”? Are there only two sides here? Anyhow, what exactly is “nonsense” from the, um, non-birther side?

  • collie

    tODD, I don’t understand PDF technology, so I used the word photograph, (I’ve read something about layers in this document?) which I knew was incorrect. What I wish Obama would do is be a little more open about his background – sort of like the transparency he says he likes in government. Maybe he doesn’t know a whole lot more about his origins and birthplace/circumstances, after all, I was present at my birth, but I don’t remember it – Then again, not answering questions seems to fuel conspiracy theories, which seem to help his popularity, so I guess I can’t blame him, from a political point of view.

  • collie

    tODD, I don’t understand PDF technology, so I used the word photograph, (I’ve read something about layers in this document?) which I knew was incorrect. What I wish Obama would do is be a little more open about his background – sort of like the transparency he says he likes in government. Maybe he doesn’t know a whole lot more about his origins and birthplace/circumstances, after all, I was present at my birth, but I don’t remember it – Then again, not answering questions seems to fuel conspiracy theories, which seem to help his popularity, so I guess I can’t blame him, from a political point of view.

  • DonS

    tODD @ 45: I should have said “all sides”. What’s nonsense? Endless columns on the issue, reporters raising it in every media interview, political pundits and strategists considering what’s best from their side politically regarding the issue, blah, blah, blah. If one really thinks the issue is so crazy and loony, why does one talk about it all the time? Don’t we have more pressing issues to be addressing?

  • DonS

    tODD @ 45: I should have said “all sides”. What’s nonsense? Endless columns on the issue, reporters raising it in every media interview, political pundits and strategists considering what’s best from their side politically regarding the issue, blah, blah, blah. If one really thinks the issue is so crazy and loony, why does one talk about it all the time? Don’t we have more pressing issues to be addressing?

  • Carl Vehse

    tODD @45, my use of “disclosed” was, as Steve put it, “in the spirit of full disclosure.”

  • Carl Vehse

    tODD @45, my use of “disclosed” was, as Steve put it, “in the spirit of full disclosure.”

  • Grace

    I agree with SKP @1

    The guy wouldn’t budge from the beginning, WHY? – he won’t give his academic records, and now his passport will be ready in a week? he’s stalling, it’s been that way from the beginning.

    Does anyone remember the hoopla over Michelle’s thesis? – they were not going to allow it to be public – and then, they decided to give something…. but not BO’s

    Occidental College records — Not released

    Columbia College records — Not released

    Columbia thesis — “Soviet Nuclear Disarmament” — Not released

    Harvard College records — Not released

    Harvard Law Review articles — None

    Illinois Bar Records — Not released

    Medical records — Not released

    Illinois State Senate records — None

    Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost

    Law practice client list — Not released

    University of Chicago scholarly articles — None

    WHY?

  • Grace

    I agree with SKP @1

    The guy wouldn’t budge from the beginning, WHY? – he won’t give his academic records, and now his passport will be ready in a week? he’s stalling, it’s been that way from the beginning.

    Does anyone remember the hoopla over Michelle’s thesis? – they were not going to allow it to be public – and then, they decided to give something…. but not BO’s

    Occidental College records — Not released

    Columbia College records — Not released

    Columbia thesis — “Soviet Nuclear Disarmament” — Not released

    Harvard College records — Not released

    Harvard Law Review articles — None

    Illinois Bar Records — Not released

    Medical records — Not released

    Illinois State Senate records — None

    Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost

    Law practice client list — Not released

    University of Chicago scholarly articles — None

    WHY?

  • Grace

    Check out the link below, very interesting….

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103408

  • Grace

    Check out the link below, very interesting….

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103408

  • Grace

    Birth certificate question
    Gibbs on ‘burgeoning…controversy’

    By ALEXANDER BURNS | 05/27/09 2:37 PM Updated: 05/27/09 3:15

    VIDEO

    Robert Gibbs

    “I know there are, apparently, at least 400,000 people who continue to doubt the existence of and the certification by the state of Hawaii, of the president’s birth there,” he continued. “But it’s on the Internet because we put it on the Internet for each of those 400,000 to download. I certainly hope by the fourth year of our administration that we’ll have dealt with this burgeoning birth controversy.”

    http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0509/birth_certificate_question_e8528fd4-ea6f-451f-a236-76cc4b65b29d.html

  • Grace

    Birth certificate question
    Gibbs on ‘burgeoning…controversy’

    By ALEXANDER BURNS | 05/27/09 2:37 PM Updated: 05/27/09 3:15

    VIDEO

    Robert Gibbs

    “I know there are, apparently, at least 400,000 people who continue to doubt the existence of and the certification by the state of Hawaii, of the president’s birth there,” he continued. “But it’s on the Internet because we put it on the Internet for each of those 400,000 to download. I certainly hope by the fourth year of our administration that we’ll have dealt with this burgeoning birth controversy.”

    http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0509/birth_certificate_question_e8528fd4-ea6f-451f-a236-76cc4b65b29d.html

  • Grace

    Gibbs said they put the certificate up almost two years ago…. really? Check out the dates.

  • Grace

    Gibbs said they put the certificate up almost two years ago…. really? Check out the dates.

  • Kirk
  • Kirk
  • Grace

    Valerie Jarrett: Obama Not Releasing College Records

    “He’s almost 50 years old and he’s president of the United States and I don’t think anybody would debate his intelligence and so now we need to get serious … let’s just get serious and get back to focusing on what’s important,” senior Obama adviser Valerie Jarrett said on The Joe Madison Show this morning.”

    Posted on April 28, 2011

    Short video; http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/04/28/valerie_jarrett_to_trump_nonsense_to_ask_for_obamas_college_records.html

    Oh,….. I believe a great many people would “debate his intelligence”

  • Grace

    Valerie Jarrett: Obama Not Releasing College Records

    “He’s almost 50 years old and he’s president of the United States and I don’t think anybody would debate his intelligence and so now we need to get serious … let’s just get serious and get back to focusing on what’s important,” senior Obama adviser Valerie Jarrett said on The Joe Madison Show this morning.”

    Posted on April 28, 2011

    Short video; http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/04/28/valerie_jarrett_to_trump_nonsense_to_ask_for_obamas_college_records.html

    Oh,….. I believe a great many people would “debate his intelligence”

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    DonS (@47), so … the media is to blame … for reporting on … things that happen?

    “Reporters raising it in every media interview.” Well, at least you’re not blowing the facts out of proportion, eh?

    “Don’t we have more pressing issues to be addressing?” Can’t help but notice that you aim this complaint at the media but not, oh, I don’t know, Trump. Or the people who put up the billboard by the freeway in my hometown that reads “Where’s the Birth Certificate?”

    Nope. Nothing to report on there. Move on. Let’s talk only about the things that Don wants to complain about.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    DonS (@47), so … the media is to blame … for reporting on … things that happen?

    “Reporters raising it in every media interview.” Well, at least you’re not blowing the facts out of proportion, eh?

    “Don’t we have more pressing issues to be addressing?” Can’t help but notice that you aim this complaint at the media but not, oh, I don’t know, Trump. Or the people who put up the billboard by the freeway in my hometown that reads “Where’s the Birth Certificate?”

    Nope. Nothing to report on there. Move on. Let’s talk only about the things that Don wants to complain about.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace (@49, 50, 51, 52, 54), you seem to have a real firm grasp of this issue, armed both with irrefutable facts and your keen intellect, of course.

    We’re all dying to know what you have found through your tireless research. Where was Obama actually born? Is he, as I’ve heard whispered among some of the truer patriots I know, actually a Reptilian … or worse?

    Could you brief us all on your findings, at your convenience? We’d all appreciate being that much wiser.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace (@49, 50, 51, 52, 54), you seem to have a real firm grasp of this issue, armed both with irrefutable facts and your keen intellect, of course.

    We’re all dying to know what you have found through your tireless research. Where was Obama actually born? Is he, as I’ve heard whispered among some of the truer patriots I know, actually a Reptilian … or worse?

    Could you brief us all on your findings, at your convenience? We’d all appreciate being that much wiser.

  • DonS

    tODD @ 55: No, they can report on whatever they want. I just think it’s nonsense, on all sides. I did say “all sides”, didn’t I? I singled out the media merely because they are the ones, generally, who proclaim that the birthers are silly or crazy. But endless columns are written about the subject, and it seems as if in every interview involving a Republican politician the question of Obama’s birth certificate is brought up. Even for politicians who have distanced themselves from the issue time and time again, and have nothing to do with or know about the circumstances of Obama’s birth.

  • DonS

    tODD @ 55: No, they can report on whatever they want. I just think it’s nonsense, on all sides. I did say “all sides”, didn’t I? I singled out the media merely because they are the ones, generally, who proclaim that the birthers are silly or crazy. But endless columns are written about the subject, and it seems as if in every interview involving a Republican politician the question of Obama’s birth certificate is brought up. Even for politicians who have distanced themselves from the issue time and time again, and have nothing to do with or know about the circumstances of Obama’s birth.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Oh,….. I believe a great many people would “debate his intelligence”

    Why? His mother was smart. His father was smart. So, there is the heredity. Then there is the fact that he managed to graduate from both Columbia and Harvard’s Law school. He has done pretty well since then. Life is competitive. He couldn’t just fall into all of it.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Oh,….. I believe a great many people would “debate his intelligence”

    Why? His mother was smart. His father was smart. So, there is the heredity. Then there is the fact that he managed to graduate from both Columbia and Harvard’s Law school. He has done pretty well since then. Life is competitive. He couldn’t just fall into all of it.

  • Grace

    sg,

    Have you read Michelle O’s thesis? – in the beginning they were not going to release it…. it’s obvious after reading it why they hesitated. I doubt BO’s thesis or records reflect much more, perhaps less. If he were proud of his achievements he would blow a trumpet and have them pasted on billboards.

    Michelle’s thesis

    The ‘thesis’ -

    Part one:
    http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_1-251.pdf

    Part two:
    http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_26-501.pdf

  • Grace

    sg,

    Have you read Michelle O’s thesis? – in the beginning they were not going to release it…. it’s obvious after reading it why they hesitated. I doubt BO’s thesis or records reflect much more, perhaps less. If he were proud of his achievements he would blow a trumpet and have them pasted on billboards.

    Michelle’s thesis

    The ‘thesis’ -

    Part one:
    http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_1-251.pdf

    Part two:
    http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_26-501.pdf

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    DonS (@57), I’m still having a hard time understanding why you’re calling it “nonsense” that the media is covering this spectacle.

    Did you also think it nonsense when the media covered the spectacle of angry (conservative) voters at Republican town-hall meetings? I doubt it (I certainly don’t recall your saying anything like that), because you agreed with those making the spectacle. If my assumption is correct, then I suspect that your issue is not with the media’s covering spectacles as such, but their covering spectacles that put your pet causes in a bad light.

    And given the ridiculously large percentage (nearly half!) of Republicans that agree with the birthers’ tenet, I really have a hard time seeing this as an issue of the media blowing things out of proportion.

    In short, I lay the blame for this pretty much at the feet of those holding to and spreading these ridiculous theories. Not those reporting on those people.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    DonS (@57), I’m still having a hard time understanding why you’re calling it “nonsense” that the media is covering this spectacle.

    Did you also think it nonsense when the media covered the spectacle of angry (conservative) voters at Republican town-hall meetings? I doubt it (I certainly don’t recall your saying anything like that), because you agreed with those making the spectacle. If my assumption is correct, then I suspect that your issue is not with the media’s covering spectacles as such, but their covering spectacles that put your pet causes in a bad light.

    And given the ridiculously large percentage (nearly half!) of Republicans that agree with the birthers’ tenet, I really have a hard time seeing this as an issue of the media blowing things out of proportion.

    In short, I lay the blame for this pretty much at the feet of those holding to and spreading these ridiculous theories. Not those reporting on those people.

  • Grace
  • Grace
  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace (@59) said, “If [Obama] were proud of his achievements he would blow a trumpet and have them pasted on billboards.”

    Well maybe all the billboards were already reserved for the trumpeting of nutty conspiracy theories?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace (@59) said, “If [Obama] were proud of his achievements he would blow a trumpet and have them pasted on billboards.”

    Well maybe all the billboards were already reserved for the trumpeting of nutty conspiracy theories?

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Grace @ 49

    I agree that it is odd how little Obama released, given that it is usual to release such records.

    If I were to put the best construction on his hesitance to release records, I would speculate that he would like people to focus on the present and future rather than over analyze and pigeon hole politicians so that they can use it as cover or excuses for not working on the conflicts we currently face.

    The best construction I would speculate on his unwillingness to release the copy of the birth certificate would be that he hoped people might move away from the fixation on citizenship generally. That he wants us to see people as people rather than the in-group or the out-group, the old us vs. them. That facet of the issue never emerged. Both the left and right focused on whether he really is “one of us”. The left said, yes of course. The right said, prove it. But no one got off and said, why is it so important? That conversation never happened. Obama seems to have some idealism and I wonder whether he hoped that such a conversation might develop.

    Okay, that is my wild speculation for this thread. Cue tODD to jump on my case.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Grace @ 49

    I agree that it is odd how little Obama released, given that it is usual to release such records.

    If I were to put the best construction on his hesitance to release records, I would speculate that he would like people to focus on the present and future rather than over analyze and pigeon hole politicians so that they can use it as cover or excuses for not working on the conflicts we currently face.

    The best construction I would speculate on his unwillingness to release the copy of the birth certificate would be that he hoped people might move away from the fixation on citizenship generally. That he wants us to see people as people rather than the in-group or the out-group, the old us vs. them. That facet of the issue never emerged. Both the left and right focused on whether he really is “one of us”. The left said, yes of course. The right said, prove it. But no one got off and said, why is it so important? That conversation never happened. Obama seems to have some idealism and I wonder whether he hoped that such a conversation might develop.

    Okay, that is my wild speculation for this thread. Cue tODD to jump on my case.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    SG (@63), why would I jump on your case if you’re actually trying to put “the best construction” on things? You do realize that was the thing you failed to do in that other thread where you complained about my “jumping on your case”, don’t you?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    SG (@63), why would I jump on your case if you’re actually trying to put “the best construction” on things? You do realize that was the thing you failed to do in that other thread where you complained about my “jumping on your case”, don’t you?

  • Grace

    sg

    “If I were to put the best construction on his hesitance to release records, I would speculate that he would like people to focus on the present and future rather than over analyze and pigeon hole politicians so that they can use it as cover or excuses for not working on the conflicts we currently face.”

    We have only to look back at the last few years and see a man who is incompetent – the more we as American’s observe his inability, the more important it becomes to see his academic and other records.

    Apologizing to Islam was shocking – his health bill is ignorant – he spends money as though its growing wild in the grand canyon. Is BO intelligent? – no I don’t believe he is.

    Obama apologizes to Islam

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=01d_1252278669

  • Grace

    sg

    “If I were to put the best construction on his hesitance to release records, I would speculate that he would like people to focus on the present and future rather than over analyze and pigeon hole politicians so that they can use it as cover or excuses for not working on the conflicts we currently face.”

    We have only to look back at the last few years and see a man who is incompetent – the more we as American’s observe his inability, the more important it becomes to see his academic and other records.

    Apologizing to Islam was shocking – his health bill is ignorant – he spends money as though its growing wild in the grand canyon. Is BO intelligent? – no I don’t believe he is.

    Obama apologizes to Islam

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=01d_1252278669

  • Stephen

    sg @ 63

    If there were an emoticon function for a tip of the hat, I would give you one.

  • Stephen

    sg @ 63

    If there were an emoticon function for a tip of the hat, I would give you one.

  • DonS

    tODD @ 60: It’s not nonsense to cover news, but when you insist on asking a birther question of a politician who has never expressed a birther concern, during an interview not specifically noticed as being a birther interview, you are not merely covering the news, but making it. It has been my observation that many elements of the media have furthered this issue by giving extensive attention to it, and fanning the flames when it dies down.

    The fact of the matter is that Obama and his team had an opportunity to nip this thing in the bud back in 2008, and for the ensuing three years, simply by timely producing a valid and verifiable birth certificate, yet did not do so. That is curious to me, and probably caused many folks who would not otherwise have had any interest in the issue to wonder about the issue, including, according to recent polls, many independent voters. One wonders why. These are the reasons why I say there is plenty of blame to go around.

  • DonS

    tODD @ 60: It’s not nonsense to cover news, but when you insist on asking a birther question of a politician who has never expressed a birther concern, during an interview not specifically noticed as being a birther interview, you are not merely covering the news, but making it. It has been my observation that many elements of the media have furthered this issue by giving extensive attention to it, and fanning the flames when it dies down.

    The fact of the matter is that Obama and his team had an opportunity to nip this thing in the bud back in 2008, and for the ensuing three years, simply by timely producing a valid and verifiable birth certificate, yet did not do so. That is curious to me, and probably caused many folks who would not otherwise have had any interest in the issue to wonder about the issue, including, according to recent polls, many independent voters. One wonders why. These are the reasons why I say there is plenty of blame to go around.

  • Grace

    U.S. President Speaks to Muslims around the world –
    Obama Quoted From the Holy Quran

    Saturday, 06 June 2009 03:11 | Author: IslamNewsroom Editor

    “That’s why we’re partnering with a coalition of forty-six countries. And despite the costs involved, America’s commitment will not weaken. Indeed, none of us should tolerate these extremists. They have killed in many countries. They have killed people of different faiths - more than any other, they have killed Muslims. Their actions are irreconcilable with the rights of human beings, the progress of nations, and with Islam.

    The Holy Quran teaches that whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a person, it is as if he has saved all mankind. The enduring faith of over a billion people is so much bigger than the narrow hatred of a few. Islam is not part of the problem in combating violent extremism – it is an important part of promoting peace.”

    – - ANOTHER EXCERPT: – -

    “… as in the story of Isra.
    (APPLAUSE)

    as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed — peace be upon them — joined in prayer.
    (APPLAUSE)

    The third source of tension is our shared interest in the rights and responsibilities of nations on nuclear weapons.
    (APPLAUSE)”

    http://islamnewsroom.com/news-we-need/856-obamaquotesquran

    Obama GROUPED Moses, Jesus and Mohammed in a joined prayer - that’s a disturbing comment coming from a so called Christian!

  • Grace

    U.S. President Speaks to Muslims around the world –
    Obama Quoted From the Holy Quran

    Saturday, 06 June 2009 03:11 | Author: IslamNewsroom Editor

    “That’s why we’re partnering with a coalition of forty-six countries. And despite the costs involved, America’s commitment will not weaken. Indeed, none of us should tolerate these extremists. They have killed in many countries. They have killed people of different faiths - more than any other, they have killed Muslims. Their actions are irreconcilable with the rights of human beings, the progress of nations, and with Islam.

    The Holy Quran teaches that whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a person, it is as if he has saved all mankind. The enduring faith of over a billion people is so much bigger than the narrow hatred of a few. Islam is not part of the problem in combating violent extremism – it is an important part of promoting peace.”

    – - ANOTHER EXCERPT: – -

    “… as in the story of Isra.
    (APPLAUSE)

    as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed — peace be upon them — joined in prayer.
    (APPLAUSE)

    The third source of tension is our shared interest in the rights and responsibilities of nations on nuclear weapons.
    (APPLAUSE)”

    http://islamnewsroom.com/news-we-need/856-obamaquotesquran

    Obama GROUPED Moses, Jesus and Mohammed in a joined prayer - that’s a disturbing comment coming from a so called Christian!

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “You do realize that was the thing you failed to do in that other thread where you complained about my “jumping on your case”, don’t you?”

    No.

    My speculation put the best construction on the schools position.

    I guess no one wanted to hear that.

    Perhaps some don’t want to hear the best construction on Obama either. Just speculatin’

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “You do realize that was the thing you failed to do in that other thread where you complained about my “jumping on your case”, don’t you?”

    No.

    My speculation put the best construction on the schools position.

    I guess no one wanted to hear that.

    Perhaps some don’t want to hear the best construction on Obama either. Just speculatin’

  • SKPeterson

    My birth certificate says “Baby Boy.” Am i really who I am?

  • SKPeterson

    My birth certificate says “Baby Boy.” Am i really who I am?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    SG (@69), first of all, you seem to have ignored the part where you suggested that a doctor was incompetent or improperly motivated by financial concerns, as well as suggesting that the teacher was a danger to her students. So, that kind of puts a dent in any “best construction” merit you might have been angling for.

    But no, you even put a bad construction on the school’s actions, as well: “I wonder if they use the ministerial exemption as a short cut to fire someone” and “I wonder whether the school was initially complicit in helping the teacher figure a way to cope with the situation, but upon realizing they were in a mess, they hid behind the religious exemption.”

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    SG (@69), first of all, you seem to have ignored the part where you suggested that a doctor was incompetent or improperly motivated by financial concerns, as well as suggesting that the teacher was a danger to her students. So, that kind of puts a dent in any “best construction” merit you might have been angling for.

    But no, you even put a bad construction on the school’s actions, as well: “I wonder if they use the ministerial exemption as a short cut to fire someone” and “I wonder whether the school was initially complicit in helping the teacher figure a way to cope with the situation, but upon realizing they were in a mess, they hid behind the religious exemption.”

  • Jeff

    @nqb

    “I think the next big movement will be the “Staters.” So he was born in Hawaii… But is Hawaii even a state?? You can’t even drive there from the United States! How exactly is that United??”

    LOL!

  • Jeff

    @nqb

    “I think the next big movement will be the “Staters.” So he was born in Hawaii… But is Hawaii even a state?? You can’t even drive there from the United States! How exactly is that United??”

    LOL!

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    tODD @ 71

    But those ARE the best constructions. ;-)

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    tODD @ 71

    But those ARE the best constructions. ;-)

  • WebMonk

    I go away overnight and come back and … just wow!

    Grace, if you ever need any tinfoil, I know you can get it pretty cheap in some military surplus stores. But don’t fall for that trap – that foil has been soaked in the same stuff they use in chemtrails and it’ll turn you into a Demonrat! And if you string ropes between all the trees in your yard, it’ll tangle up the commandos in the silent black helicopters that come to take you in the night because you’re EXPOSING THE LIE!!!

  • WebMonk

    I go away overnight and come back and … just wow!

    Grace, if you ever need any tinfoil, I know you can get it pretty cheap in some military surplus stores. But don’t fall for that trap – that foil has been soaked in the same stuff they use in chemtrails and it’ll turn you into a Demonrat! And if you string ropes between all the trees in your yard, it’ll tangle up the commandos in the silent black helicopters that come to take you in the night because you’re EXPOSING THE LIE!!!

  • Joe

    Oh,….. I believe a great many people would “debate his intelligence”

    Why? His mother was smart. His father was smart. So, there is the heredity. Then there is the fact that he managed to graduate from both Columbia and Harvard’s Law school. He has done pretty well since then. Life is competitive. He couldn’t just fall into all of it.

    Change Columbia to Yale, Law to Business School, and it applies to George W Bush!

  • Joe

    Oh,….. I believe a great many people would “debate his intelligence”

    Why? His mother was smart. His father was smart. So, there is the heredity. Then there is the fact that he managed to graduate from both Columbia and Harvard’s Law school. He has done pretty well since then. Life is competitive. He couldn’t just fall into all of it.

    Change Columbia to Yale, Law to Business School, and it applies to George W Bush!

  • Trey

    I have my doubts about the released birth certificate. There are issues such as why he is referred to as an African not a negro as an african-american would have been in 1961. Then there is the fact the document does not look like Hawaiian birth certificate that others have produced. I think though this is all a distraction to his noxious policies. The elite media loves it as does the WH. However, I guess when one asks questions these days they are labeled a lunatic or a nut? These are valid questions. It is funny that the true cretins here are those who don’t want to ask questions, but would rather believe whatever they are told (robots). Public education has done its job in creating apathy and ignorance. What happened to the public’s right to know? I guess when you are a partisan it only applies when you are going after the other guy.

  • Trey

    I have my doubts about the released birth certificate. There are issues such as why he is referred to as an African not a negro as an african-american would have been in 1961. Then there is the fact the document does not look like Hawaiian birth certificate that others have produced. I think though this is all a distraction to his noxious policies. The elite media loves it as does the WH. However, I guess when one asks questions these days they are labeled a lunatic or a nut? These are valid questions. It is funny that the true cretins here are those who don’t want to ask questions, but would rather believe whatever they are told (robots). Public education has done its job in creating apathy and ignorance. What happened to the public’s right to know? I guess when you are a partisan it only applies when you are going after the other guy.

  • WebMonk

    Wait, so it’s a forgery, Trey? Wow, the US govt is so abysmally incompetent that it can’t even manage to fake up one of its own documents – leaving in horribly Photoshopped aspects and blatantly incorrect things that any college kid could have done better. (according to the conspiracy theory nuts, anyway)

    And yet simultaneously so incredibly capable that it has managed to keep tens of thousands of people across scores of government and private organizations involved in a coverup of this size from ever coming forward for three years now on what would be the biggest political story of the century! Not only that, but apparently dark and nefarious forces were planning this from the beginning and setting up his presidency from the moment he was born. What amazing crystal balls these people must have! But, of course, it’s not really them – it’s the demons controlling them who are orchestrating the rise of the Antichrist!!

    I think you’ve been wearing the tinfoil a bit too long. If you keep it up much longer, you’ll be looking for the thermite used in 9/11.

  • WebMonk

    Wait, so it’s a forgery, Trey? Wow, the US govt is so abysmally incompetent that it can’t even manage to fake up one of its own documents – leaving in horribly Photoshopped aspects and blatantly incorrect things that any college kid could have done better. (according to the conspiracy theory nuts, anyway)

    And yet simultaneously so incredibly capable that it has managed to keep tens of thousands of people across scores of government and private organizations involved in a coverup of this size from ever coming forward for three years now on what would be the biggest political story of the century! Not only that, but apparently dark and nefarious forces were planning this from the beginning and setting up his presidency from the moment he was born. What amazing crystal balls these people must have! But, of course, it’s not really them – it’s the demons controlling them who are orchestrating the rise of the Antichrist!!

    I think you’ve been wearing the tinfoil a bit too long. If you keep it up much longer, you’ll be looking for the thermite used in 9/11.

  • SKPeterson

    I got your thermite right here. Ohh!

    Sorry, just saw some old Andrew Dice Clay clips.

  • SKPeterson

    I got your thermite right here. Ohh!

    Sorry, just saw some old Andrew Dice Clay clips.


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