Vatican calls for a world government

The Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace has issued a document on solving the world’s financial problems.  In the course of those pontifications, the Vatican committee calls for the establishment of a world government, a “world political authority.”  From the document:

On the way to building a more fraternal and just human family and, even before that, a new humanism open to transcendence, Blessed John XXIII’s teaching seems especially timely. In the prophetic Encyclical Pacem in Terris of 1963, he observed that the world was heading towards ever greater unification. He then acknowledged the fact that a correspondence was lacking in the human community between the political organization “on a world level and the objective needs of the universal common good”. He also expressed the hope that one day “a true world political authority” would be created.

In view of the unification of the world engendered by the complex phenomenon of globalization, and of the importance of guaranteeing, in addition to other collective goods, the good of a free, stable world economic and financial system at the service of the real economy, today the teaching of Pacem in Terris appears to be even more vital and worthy of urgent implementation.

In the same spirit of Pacem in Terris, Benedict XVI himself expressed the need to create a world political authority. This seems obvious if we consider the fact that the agenda of questions to be dealt with globally is becoming ever longer. Think, for example, of peace and security; disarmament and arms control; promotion and protection of fundamental human rights; management of the economy and development policies; management of the migratory flows and food security, and protection of the environment. In all these areas, the growing interdependence between States and regions of the world becomes more and more obvious as well as the need for answers that are not just sectorial and isolated, but systematic and integrated, rich in solidarity and subsidiarity and geared to the universal common good.

As the Pope reminds us, if this road is not followed, “despite the great progress accomplished in various sectors, international law would risk being conditioned by the balance of power among the strongest nations.”

The purpose of the public authority, as John XXIII recalled in Pacem in Terris, is first and foremost to serve the common good. Therefore, it should be endowed with structures and adequate, effective mechanisms equal to its mission and the expectations placed in it. This is especially true in a globalized world which makes individuals and peoples increasingly interconnected and interdependent, but which also reveals the existence of monetary and financial markets of a predominantly speculative sort that are harmful for the real economy, especially of the weaker countries.

This is a complex and delicate process. A supranational Authority of this kind should have a realistic structure and be set up gradually. It should be favourable to the existence of efficient and effective monetary and financial systems; that is, free and stable markets overseen by a suitable legal framework, well-functioning in support of sustainable development and social progress of all, and inspired by the values of charity and truth. It is a matter of an Authority with a global reach that cannot be imposed by force, coercion or violence, but should be the outcome of a free and shared agreement and a reflection of the permanent and historic needs of the world common good. It ought to arise from a process of progressive maturation of consciences and freedoms as well as the awareness of growing responsibilities. Consequently, reciprocal trust, autonomy and participation cannot be overlooked as if they were superfluous elements. The consent should involve an ever greater number of countries that adhere with conviction, through a sincere dialogue that values the minority opinions rather than marginalizing them. So the world Authority should consistently involve all peoples in a collaboration in which they are called to contribute, bringing to it the heritage of their virtues and their civilizations.

The establishment of a world political Authority should be preceded by a preliminary phase of consultation from which a legitimated institution will emerge that is in a position to be an effective guide and, at the same time, can allow each country to express and pursue its own particular good. The exercise of this Authority at the service of the good of each and every one will necessarily be super partes (impartial): that is, above any partial vision or particular good, in view of achieving the common good. Its decisions should not be the result of the more developed countries’ excessive power over the weaker countries. Instead, they should be made in the interest of all, not only to the advantage of some groups, whether they are formed by private lobbies or national governments.

via Full Text: Note on financial reform from the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace.

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • Pete

    Somebody’s making this up, right? Somebody in the “the Pope is the antichrist” camp? Michelle Bachmann, perhaps?

  • Pete

    Somebody’s making this up, right? Somebody in the “the Pope is the antichrist” camp? Michelle Bachmann, perhaps?

  • http://theoldadam.wordpress.com Steve Martin

    He’s just trying to stave off an ‘occupy St. Peters’ movement.

    Kumbaiya.

  • http://theoldadam.wordpress.com Steve Martin

    He’s just trying to stave off an ‘occupy St. Peters’ movement.

    Kumbaiya.

  • Tom Hering

    This Catholic social teaching is simply saying that – like it or not – human government will catch up with what is already happening in human economic activity. A world government will be born of transnational capitalism. Do we want to start thinking about how to make it the best government possible? Or will we just let our sinfulness take its natural course?

  • Tom Hering

    This Catholic social teaching is simply saying that – like it or not – human government will catch up with what is already happening in human economic activity. A world government will be born of transnational capitalism. Do we want to start thinking about how to make it the best government possible? Or will we just let our sinfulness take its natural course?

  • Tom Hering

    Should read, “A world government will be born of supranational capitalism.”

  • Tom Hering

    Should read, “A world government will be born of supranational capitalism.”

  • Mary

    League of Nations anyone? Or United Nations? Yeah that ought to work.
    Let’s build a tower while we’re at it. You know, to heaven. That ring a bell?

  • Mary

    League of Nations anyone? Or United Nations? Yeah that ought to work.
    Let’s build a tower while we’re at it. You know, to heaven. That ring a bell?

  • Tom Hering

    Tower of Babel? I don’t see where people would be any less separated by language, culture, or ethnicity because of a world government. Did these distinctions disappear with the development of nation states (a relatively recent development)?

  • Tom Hering

    Tower of Babel? I don’t see where people would be any less separated by language, culture, or ethnicity because of a world government. Did these distinctions disappear with the development of nation states (a relatively recent development)?

  • larry

    Interesting. I suppose it’s not surprising that the office of the antichrist would state this. I was just pondering something like this last night, or related by a comment made by Pat Buchanan. He made an astute observation concerning the “Arab Spring” and the continued installment of sharia law (sp??) in otherwise secularized Muslem countries. Thus, seeing this move back towards religious rooted governments as opposed to more purely secular ones. Secular governments tend to have a “tone” to them, they can be Muslim based/distilled secular, Eastern religion based/distilled secular, “Christian” based/distilled secular or other. They nevertheless are secular.

    Buchanan’s observation was this move back toward religious based or operated governments as opposed to more secular based showing up especially in the Arab countries, and even brought up the Western “Christendom” based governments of the past with the implication of that being a good thing. We Lutherans would see this as a confusion of the two kingdoms among other things.

    In revelation there’s this two way operation between the two beast, of the sea and of the earth going on, the former is usually understood as the secular governments against Christ and the earthen one the religious but in particular false Christian (in the place of or christlike = antichrist). The former, secular often persecutes mostly by the sword to drive the elect away from faith in His righteousness for one, the later via false doctrines mostly within the church doors (i.e. the heterodoxies) for the same design and purpose. The secular beast is often ridden by the religious anthichrist who rules it.

    I’ve often wondered if the papacy would ascend again over some form of secular government to exert its false doctrine en masse, mingled somehow with protestant heterodoxy and other religions all in one big acceptable religious concoction, or just kind of stay subtly in between the lines never again ascending as it once was under Christendom? Secular governments historically come and go, but the office of the antichrist remains in tact. E.g. It is reported that Stalin upon his secular ascendancy once commented upon “advice” from Rome to the pope, “how many divisions does he have”. Yet, Stalin the man and the Soviet union have fallen and the office of the antichrist remains.

    But do we not increasingly see a microcosm picture of this beginning to develop in the US political structure? I’ve often said I’m not so much afraid of the political left with its rank secular leanings as the political right and its infusment and insinuation of all sorts of soul endangering heterodoxies under the united guise of “let’s get America going we are all after all – all Americans”. Slowly over time various and sundry conservative (i.e. not necessarily Christian but under the guise of Christian morals, virtues and the like) Christian denominations unite for the one American cause. During this a slow but subtle confusion and acceptance of all doctrine and thus “all faith” within the rubric ‘Christendom’ are accepted. Take for example Romney. On the one hand from a keeping unconfused the two kingdoms, if per chance he can rule wisely then he may be considered as a viable candidate. But on the other hand slowly and subtly Mormonism enters the frey of Christians just unessentially eschew. Baptist pastor John MacArthur to his credit alerted this problem 10 years ago, this unification for an American conservative cause of denominations and those outside the pale of Christian but “conservative”, but then what do you do when you say, “Christ alone”, uh oh there goes the unity. His point is well made. Take again for example the not so insignificant reality that Bachman had to/choose to eschew her confession of faith moving away from orthodoxy to increasing heterodoxy just to run for the office of President under the “common conservative cause”. Again, the example of the pope kissing the Quran. Thus, if over time the heterodoxies and false teachings inside and outside the church continue to break down the orthodox doctrines, slowly “smearing them” as it where into one big mélange of religion, using a vehicle of “common cause” (e.g. espoused here by rome and seen in the American political arena, left and even more the right). There may be a day again when the office of antichrist rules again overtly over the secular realm and not just covertly within the church. The papacy need not actually sit on the secular thrown, he need only “ride the ox” to actually govern it.

  • larry

    Interesting. I suppose it’s not surprising that the office of the antichrist would state this. I was just pondering something like this last night, or related by a comment made by Pat Buchanan. He made an astute observation concerning the “Arab Spring” and the continued installment of sharia law (sp??) in otherwise secularized Muslem countries. Thus, seeing this move back towards religious rooted governments as opposed to more purely secular ones. Secular governments tend to have a “tone” to them, they can be Muslim based/distilled secular, Eastern religion based/distilled secular, “Christian” based/distilled secular or other. They nevertheless are secular.

    Buchanan’s observation was this move back toward religious based or operated governments as opposed to more secular based showing up especially in the Arab countries, and even brought up the Western “Christendom” based governments of the past with the implication of that being a good thing. We Lutherans would see this as a confusion of the two kingdoms among other things.

    In revelation there’s this two way operation between the two beast, of the sea and of the earth going on, the former is usually understood as the secular governments against Christ and the earthen one the religious but in particular false Christian (in the place of or christlike = antichrist). The former, secular often persecutes mostly by the sword to drive the elect away from faith in His righteousness for one, the later via false doctrines mostly within the church doors (i.e. the heterodoxies) for the same design and purpose. The secular beast is often ridden by the religious anthichrist who rules it.

    I’ve often wondered if the papacy would ascend again over some form of secular government to exert its false doctrine en masse, mingled somehow with protestant heterodoxy and other religions all in one big acceptable religious concoction, or just kind of stay subtly in between the lines never again ascending as it once was under Christendom? Secular governments historically come and go, but the office of the antichrist remains in tact. E.g. It is reported that Stalin upon his secular ascendancy once commented upon “advice” from Rome to the pope, “how many divisions does he have”. Yet, Stalin the man and the Soviet union have fallen and the office of the antichrist remains.

    But do we not increasingly see a microcosm picture of this beginning to develop in the US political structure? I’ve often said I’m not so much afraid of the political left with its rank secular leanings as the political right and its infusment and insinuation of all sorts of soul endangering heterodoxies under the united guise of “let’s get America going we are all after all – all Americans”. Slowly over time various and sundry conservative (i.e. not necessarily Christian but under the guise of Christian morals, virtues and the like) Christian denominations unite for the one American cause. During this a slow but subtle confusion and acceptance of all doctrine and thus “all faith” within the rubric ‘Christendom’ are accepted. Take for example Romney. On the one hand from a keeping unconfused the two kingdoms, if per chance he can rule wisely then he may be considered as a viable candidate. But on the other hand slowly and subtly Mormonism enters the frey of Christians just unessentially eschew. Baptist pastor John MacArthur to his credit alerted this problem 10 years ago, this unification for an American conservative cause of denominations and those outside the pale of Christian but “conservative”, but then what do you do when you say, “Christ alone”, uh oh there goes the unity. His point is well made. Take again for example the not so insignificant reality that Bachman had to/choose to eschew her confession of faith moving away from orthodoxy to increasing heterodoxy just to run for the office of President under the “common conservative cause”. Again, the example of the pope kissing the Quran. Thus, if over time the heterodoxies and false teachings inside and outside the church continue to break down the orthodox doctrines, slowly “smearing them” as it where into one big mélange of religion, using a vehicle of “common cause” (e.g. espoused here by rome and seen in the American political arena, left and even more the right). There may be a day again when the office of antichrist rules again overtly over the secular realm and not just covertly within the church. The papacy need not actually sit on the secular thrown, he need only “ride the ox” to actually govern it.

  • Helen F

    Larry,

    Thanks for a very insightful analysis of this topic. I have often been intrigued by the relationship of the govt. and the false church and I really think your conclusions may be predictive of what we Christians may be up against in the not-to-distant future.
    Of course, whatever may be on the political/religious horizson, we are to cling to Christ alone, for [only] “He does all things well.”

  • Helen F

    Larry,

    Thanks for a very insightful analysis of this topic. I have often been intrigued by the relationship of the govt. and the false church and I really think your conclusions may be predictive of what we Christians may be up against in the not-to-distant future.
    Of course, whatever may be on the political/religious horizson, we are to cling to Christ alone, for [only] “He does all things well.”

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    The pope is antichrist. Maybe not THE Antichrist, but he is antichrist in the little sense.

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    The pope is antichrist. Maybe not THE Antichrist, but he is antichrist in the little sense.

  • Tom Hering

    No one is more agreeable than I am to the idea that Rome is the seat of the Antichrist – for theological reasons (its different gospel). But if someone really believes there’s a coming one-world government with the Pope as its head (either literally or figuratively), they need to stop shopping at their local Christian bookstore. Rome isn’t wrong about everything, especially not in its social teaching. And I don’t see it prophesied in Scripture that world government will precede the end of the world. Yes, some see it as preceding the rapture and tribulation, but that’s just poop on top of poop.

  • Tom Hering

    No one is more agreeable than I am to the idea that Rome is the seat of the Antichrist – for theological reasons (its different gospel). But if someone really believes there’s a coming one-world government with the Pope as its head (either literally or figuratively), they need to stop shopping at their local Christian bookstore. Rome isn’t wrong about everything, especially not in its social teaching. And I don’t see it prophesied in Scripture that world government will precede the end of the world. Yes, some see it as preceding the rapture and tribulation, but that’s just poop on top of poop.

  • –helen

    A “world government” would presumably control the banking industry, instead of being controlled by it.
    I wonder if even the Pope can pull that off in this day and age…

    Not so long ago, the Vatican bank was a source of embarrassment!

  • –helen

    A “world government” would presumably control the banking industry, instead of being controlled by it.
    I wonder if even the Pope can pull that off in this day and age…

    Not so long ago, the Vatican bank was a source of embarrassment!

  • L. H. Kevil

    Simply astonishing naivete on the part of the Vatican, which seems to think that under its leadership and with good will among men, it can help usher in the Millenium.

    I find it fascinating that today First Things has a post by Michael Novak entitled: ‘Don’t confuse the common good with statism.’

    We could add: Don’t forget that there is only one person who can lift the curse from the earth, and it is not the bishop of Rome.

  • L. H. Kevil

    Simply astonishing naivete on the part of the Vatican, which seems to think that under its leadership and with good will among men, it can help usher in the Millenium.

    I find it fascinating that today First Things has a post by Michael Novak entitled: ‘Don’t confuse the common good with statism.’

    We could add: Don’t forget that there is only one person who can lift the curse from the earth, and it is not the bishop of Rome.

  • http://www.olvgvpima.org/ Jon

    http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/10/the-church-backs-occupy-wall-street-ctd.html

    Here’s a good description of how American Catholics are splitting on the document.

  • http://www.olvgvpima.org/ Jon

    http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/10/the-church-backs-occupy-wall-street-ctd.html

    Here’s a good description of how American Catholics are splitting on the document.

  • Grace

    I posted this story on October 24th, post 46 on “Why is Wall Street supporting Obama?”
    http://www.geneveith.com/2011/10/21/why-is-wall-street-supporting-obama/

    Obviously, the Roman church now wants to direct the finances of the world?

  • Grace

    I posted this story on October 24th, post 46 on “Why is Wall Street supporting Obama?”
    http://www.geneveith.com/2011/10/21/why-is-wall-street-supporting-obama/

    Obviously, the Roman church now wants to direct the finances of the world?

  • Grace

    Steve @2

    “He’s just trying to stave off an ‘occupy St. Peters’ movement.”
    :lol: that’s a good one.

  • Grace

    Steve @2

    “He’s just trying to stave off an ‘occupy St. Peters’ movement.”
    :lol: that’s a good one.

  • Grace

    Tom @ 3

    Do we want to start thinking about how to make it the best government possible? Or will we just let our sinfulness take its natural course?”

    A world govenment? – best possible?

    It would be sinful to help such an idea along, with the Pope in charge, or can’t you see that?

  • Grace

    Tom @ 3

    Do we want to start thinking about how to make it the best government possible? Or will we just let our sinfulness take its natural course?”

    A world govenment? – best possible?

    It would be sinful to help such an idea along, with the Pope in charge, or can’t you see that?

  • Grace

    Tom @ 4

    “A world government will be born of supranational capitalism.”

    A world government will be born of sinful, self importance!

  • Grace

    Tom @ 4

    “A world government will be born of supranational capitalism.”

    A world government will be born of sinful, self importance!

  • Jonathan

    Grace, are you into those Jack Chick comics?

  • Jonathan

    Grace, are you into those Jack Chick comics?

  • Grace

    Jonathan @ 18

    YOU WROTE: “Grace, are you into those Jack Chick comics?”

    Don’t have a clue what they are, but obviously you’re “into” them. :lol:

  • Grace

    Jonathan @ 18

    YOU WROTE: “Grace, are you into those Jack Chick comics?”

    Don’t have a clue what they are, but obviously you’re “into” them. :lol:

  • Jonathan

    Grace, glad to hear it. No, I’m not into them, but have seen them. They’re outliers even in the conspiracy-laden fundamentalist world.

  • Jonathan

    Grace, glad to hear it. No, I’m not into them, but have seen them. They’re outliers even in the conspiracy-laden fundamentalist world.

  • Grace

    This is the link I posted two days ago – - “Why is Wall Street supporting Obama?”

    Vatican calls for global authority on economy, raps “idolatry of the market”

    | Reuters
    By Philip Pullella
    Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:08am EDT

    “The Vatican called on Monday for the establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” to rule over financial institutions that have become outdated and often ineffective in dealing fairly with crises. The document from the Vatican’s Justice and Peace department should please the “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrators and similar movements around the world who have protested against the economic downturn.”

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/24/idUS264245887020111024

  • Grace

    This is the link I posted two days ago – - “Why is Wall Street supporting Obama?”

    Vatican calls for global authority on economy, raps “idolatry of the market”

    | Reuters
    By Philip Pullella
    Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:08am EDT

    “The Vatican called on Monday for the establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” to rule over financial institutions that have become outdated and often ineffective in dealing fairly with crises. The document from the Vatican’s Justice and Peace department should please the “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrators and similar movements around the world who have protested against the economic downturn.”

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/24/idUS264245887020111024

  • larry

    I don’t think “one world government” is what is envisioned here at all, rather the proliferation of false teaching and heresy which does increase and comes from all directions as the end nears and is warned about, but ironically the thing most overlooked for political expediency. What one sees is not really “one world goverment” on the horizon, but the continued insinuation of heterodoxy of the crass forms and subtle forms. And heterodoxy always insinuates in under “morality” if you will. This is in part the principle uniting, for example, many conservatives, not “one world government”. One world government is not the danger, not even realistically on the radar, but an understood heterodoxy is.

  • larry

    I don’t think “one world government” is what is envisioned here at all, rather the proliferation of false teaching and heresy which does increase and comes from all directions as the end nears and is warned about, but ironically the thing most overlooked for political expediency. What one sees is not really “one world goverment” on the horizon, but the continued insinuation of heterodoxy of the crass forms and subtle forms. And heterodoxy always insinuates in under “morality” if you will. This is in part the principle uniting, for example, many conservatives, not “one world government”. One world government is not the danger, not even realistically on the radar, but an understood heterodoxy is.

  • trotk

    Grace, why is desiring, helping or creating a one world government inherently sinful? Can you prove this from the Bible?

    Keep in my that the whole idea is nutty to me. We can’t even get peace in a single nation, and so the papacy is obviously short of marbles.

  • trotk

    Grace, why is desiring, helping or creating a one world government inherently sinful? Can you prove this from the Bible?

    Keep in my that the whole idea is nutty to me. We can’t even get peace in a single nation, and so the papacy is obviously short of marbles.

  • Cincinnatus

    Tom seems to be correct: this particular branch of the Catholic Church is arguing that, if global capitalism, with all its destructive forces, is to be tamed, it will require some kind of global authority–not a tyrant, not an antichrist. Probably something more like the UN or WTO with more heft. Yes, I am opposed to this idea, but I am also opposed to global capitalism, so I like to think that my values here are not in conflict.

    Notice also that I said “this particular branch of the Catholic Church.” I’ve already been corrected by several Catholic friends: the “Vatican” did not make this pronouncement, and it is not binding on anyone. Something akin to a Catholic “study group” published this idea in a form roughly analogous to a government or corporate white paper. Nothing to see here; move along.

    Though I do wish the Catholics would be making normative pronouncements about distributism and subsidiarity–nice Catholic ideas–rather than global governments. But I suppose a one-world church needs a one-world government, right?

  • Cincinnatus

    Tom seems to be correct: this particular branch of the Catholic Church is arguing that, if global capitalism, with all its destructive forces, is to be tamed, it will require some kind of global authority–not a tyrant, not an antichrist. Probably something more like the UN or WTO with more heft. Yes, I am opposed to this idea, but I am also opposed to global capitalism, so I like to think that my values here are not in conflict.

    Notice also that I said “this particular branch of the Catholic Church.” I’ve already been corrected by several Catholic friends: the “Vatican” did not make this pronouncement, and it is not binding on anyone. Something akin to a Catholic “study group” published this idea in a form roughly analogous to a government or corporate white paper. Nothing to see here; move along.

    Though I do wish the Catholics would be making normative pronouncements about distributism and subsidiarity–nice Catholic ideas–rather than global governments. But I suppose a one-world church needs a one-world government, right?

  • Grace

    larry @ 22

    You stated – - “What one sees is not really “one world goverment” on the horizon, but the continued insinuation of heterodoxy of the crass forms and subtle forms. “

    heterodoxy definition: he state of being at variance with established doctrines or beliefs.

    It all depends upon how you are using “hetrodoxy” – if you’re using it to promote ‘traditions of men’ rather than what the Word of God states….. then that would be “heterodoxy” which is RCC to the core.

    As the article states (I posted @28) establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” — is a heading straight down the road to ‘One World Government’ -

  • Grace

    larry @ 22

    You stated – - “What one sees is not really “one world goverment” on the horizon, but the continued insinuation of heterodoxy of the crass forms and subtle forms. “

    heterodoxy definition: he state of being at variance with established doctrines or beliefs.

    It all depends upon how you are using “hetrodoxy” – if you’re using it to promote ‘traditions of men’ rather than what the Word of God states….. then that would be “heterodoxy” which is RCC to the core.

    As the article states (I posted @28) establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” — is a heading straight down the road to ‘One World Government’ -

  • Grace

    @ 25

    Should read:

    As the article states (I posted @21) establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” — is a heading straight down the road to ‘One World Government’ -

  • Grace

    @ 25

    Should read:

    As the article states (I posted @21) establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” — is a heading straight down the road to ‘One World Government’ -

  • Grace

    trokt @ 23

    “Grace, why is desiring, helping or creating a one world government inherently sinful? Can you prove this from the Bible?”

    Why?

    We could then as the United States join the Middle East, Sharia law, we could hold hands with China, Russia and all the other brands of Socialism, Communism, anti-Semitism, brutal laws that plague many countries.

  • Grace

    trokt @ 23

    “Grace, why is desiring, helping or creating a one world government inherently sinful? Can you prove this from the Bible?”

    Why?

    We could then as the United States join the Middle East, Sharia law, we could hold hands with China, Russia and all the other brands of Socialism, Communism, anti-Semitism, brutal laws that plague many countries.

  • Grace

    Cincinnatus 2 24

    “Probably something more like the UN or WTO with more heft. Yes, I am opposed to this idea, but I am also opposed to global capitalism, so I like to think that my values here are not in conflict.”

    The UN? – we could easily do without the UN, and anything that resembles it.

    Captialism has made this country what it is. It is through those who have built companies from scratch that have made America financially healthy – but it is those who aren’t willing to put forth the effort, but rather are hoping for a SOCIALIST government, or anything that will afford them the same lifestyle as that of those who have RISKED their own money, put their homes up as collaeral who deserve what they have – not to be stolen from those who are not putting forth their best effort.

  • Grace

    Cincinnatus 2 24

    “Probably something more like the UN or WTO with more heft. Yes, I am opposed to this idea, but I am also opposed to global capitalism, so I like to think that my values here are not in conflict.”

    The UN? – we could easily do without the UN, and anything that resembles it.

    Captialism has made this country what it is. It is through those who have built companies from scratch that have made America financially healthy – but it is those who aren’t willing to put forth the effort, but rather are hoping for a SOCIALIST government, or anything that will afford them the same lifestyle as that of those who have RISKED their own money, put their homes up as collaeral who deserve what they have – not to be stolen from those who are not putting forth their best effort.

  • trotk

    So Grace at 27, I take it that you cannot prove that desiring a world government is sinful.

  • trotk

    So Grace at 27, I take it that you cannot prove that desiring a world government is sinful.

  • Grace

    trotk @29

    YOU STATE: ” I take it that you cannot prove that desiring a world government is sinful.”

    Joining forces in a “World Governement” one in which a good number of countries endorse Sharia law, and brutal treatment of their citizens ….. is sinful!

    Does God tell us anywhere in Scripture to join forces with those who are wicked, who worship, as an entire country a false god, who demand that everyone in their country join in their religion? – and if they don’t, they most likely will be killed?’

  • Grace

    trotk @29

    YOU STATE: ” I take it that you cannot prove that desiring a world government is sinful.”

    Joining forces in a “World Governement” one in which a good number of countries endorse Sharia law, and brutal treatment of their citizens ….. is sinful!

    Does God tell us anywhere in Scripture to join forces with those who are wicked, who worship, as an entire country a false god, who demand that everyone in their country join in their religion? – and if they don’t, they most likely will be killed?’

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    So, Grace (@30) … being a UN member is therefore also sinful?

    Does God tell us anywhere in Scripture to communicate using computers?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    So, Grace (@30) … being a UN member is therefore also sinful?

    Does God tell us anywhere in Scripture to communicate using computers?

  • Grace

    tODD @ 31

    YOU ASKED: “being a UN member is therefore also sinful?”

    The UN is radical, it’s anti Israel, it does not enforce human rights, such as North Korea.

  • Grace

    tODD @ 31

    YOU ASKED: “being a UN member is therefore also sinful?”

    The UN is radical, it’s anti Israel, it does not enforce human rights, such as North Korea.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    So, Grace (@32) … is being a UN member sinful?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    So, Grace (@32) … is being a UN member sinful?

  • Grace

    tODD @33

    YOU ASKED: “is being a UN member sinful?”

    That would depend upon what the individual believed, what they were supporting.

  • Grace

    tODD @33

    YOU ASKED: “is being a UN member sinful?”

    That would depend upon what the individual believed, what they were supporting.

  • Cincinnatus

    Wait, Grace, so it would be sinful to start a one-world government because that would force “us” to associate with nations that maintain Sharia law and hate Israel. On the other hand, it is not necessarily sinful for a nation to belong to the UN–a collection of nation states, including those that hate Israel and maintain Sharia law.

  • Cincinnatus

    Wait, Grace, so it would be sinful to start a one-world government because that would force “us” to associate with nations that maintain Sharia law and hate Israel. On the other hand, it is not necessarily sinful for a nation to belong to the UN–a collection of nation states, including those that hate Israel and maintain Sharia law.

  • Grace

    35 Cincinnatus

    YOU ASKED: “Wait, Grace, so it would be sinful to start a one-world government because that would force “us” to associate with nations that maintain Sharia law and hate Israel.”

    We have a government, we don’t need to join ourselves to a “World Government” –

    We already associate with other nations who have Sharia law, and hate Israel, nothing new there.

  • Grace

    35 Cincinnatus

    YOU ASKED: “Wait, Grace, so it would be sinful to start a one-world government because that would force “us” to associate with nations that maintain Sharia law and hate Israel.”

    We have a government, we don’t need to join ourselves to a “World Government” –

    We already associate with other nations who have Sharia law, and hate Israel, nothing new there.

  • Cincinnatus

    Ok, but that doesn’t answer the question of whether such association is “sinful” or not, as you claimed earlier.

  • Cincinnatus

    Ok, but that doesn’t answer the question of whether such association is “sinful” or not, as you claimed earlier.

  • Grace

    37 Cincinnatus

    YOU WROTE: Ok, but that doesn’t answer the question of whether such association is “sinful” or not, as you claimed earlier.

    EXACTLY which post and comment are you referring to?

  • Grace

    37 Cincinnatus

    YOU WROTE: Ok, but that doesn’t answer the question of whether such association is “sinful” or not, as you claimed earlier.

    EXACTLY which post and comment are you referring to?

  • trotk

    Grace, is troll-baiting sinful?

  • trotk

    Grace, is troll-baiting sinful?

  • Grace

    trotk @39

    You asked: “is troll-baiting sinful?”

    As this is your ‘hobby, you can answer that one for yourself!

  • Grace

    trotk @39

    You asked: “is troll-baiting sinful?”

    As this is your ‘hobby, you can answer that one for yourself!

  • Grace

    Back on TOPIC!

    The entire paper mentions “common good” twenty two (22) times. Ending with:

    “The spirit of Babel is the antithesis of the Spirit of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-12), of God’s design for the whole of humanity: that is, unity in truth. Only a spirit of concord that rises above divisions and conflicts will allow humanity to be authentically one family and to conceive of a new world with the creation of a world public Authority at the service of the common good.

    There is no “unity” when the division of belief in God and HIS Word, cannot be agreed upon. Nor can there be unity, when those who deceive themselves through idolatry, vain worship to anyone, other than God Almighty chooses to bring all peoples under an umbrella of “common good” when there will be, no heaven on earth, no peace, until the LORD returns. There is no peace,…. as Jesus stated:

    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    Matthew 10:34

    As mentioned above Acts 2:1-12 – Remember they were all of “one accord in one place” these were believers in Christ.

    1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

    2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

    3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

    5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

    6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

    7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

    8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

    9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

    10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

    11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

    12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? .

  • Grace

    Back on TOPIC!

    The entire paper mentions “common good” twenty two (22) times. Ending with:

    “The spirit of Babel is the antithesis of the Spirit of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-12), of God’s design for the whole of humanity: that is, unity in truth. Only a spirit of concord that rises above divisions and conflicts will allow humanity to be authentically one family and to conceive of a new world with the creation of a world public Authority at the service of the common good.

    There is no “unity” when the division of belief in God and HIS Word, cannot be agreed upon. Nor can there be unity, when those who deceive themselves through idolatry, vain worship to anyone, other than God Almighty chooses to bring all peoples under an umbrella of “common good” when there will be, no heaven on earth, no peace, until the LORD returns. There is no peace,…. as Jesus stated:

    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    Matthew 10:34

    As mentioned above Acts 2:1-12 – Remember they were all of “one accord in one place” these were believers in Christ.

    1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

    2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

    3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

    5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

    6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

    7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

    8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

    9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

    10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

    11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

    12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? .

  • http://concordiaandkoinonia.wordpress.com/ Rev. Mark Schroeder

    See European Common Market and how that is not working out.

  • http://concordiaandkoinonia.wordpress.com/ Rev. Mark Schroeder

    See European Common Market and how that is not working out.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace, you appear unwilling or unable to distinguish between the Church and worldly governments.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace, you appear unwilling or unable to distinguish between the Church and worldly governments.

  • Grace

    tODD @ 43

    YOU WROTE: “Grace, you appear unwilling or unable to distinguish between the Church and worldly governments.”

    The United States does not need to, nor should it, blend itself into a “World Government” as the Vatican suggests – or more strongly an “authority” for the world.

    As Dr. Veith noted above

    “In the course of those pontifications, the Vatican committee calls for the establishment of a world government, a “world political authority.

    The Vatican, isn’t that difficult to understand, they have been trying to run the world for centuries. Of course they would like to as I posted @ 21, they want a “central world bank” and a “global public authority” :

    “global public authority” and a “central world bank”

    You should write a letter to Rome, and ask them what you just asked me!

  • Grace

    tODD @ 43

    YOU WROTE: “Grace, you appear unwilling or unable to distinguish between the Church and worldly governments.”

    The United States does not need to, nor should it, blend itself into a “World Government” as the Vatican suggests – or more strongly an “authority” for the world.

    As Dr. Veith noted above

    “In the course of those pontifications, the Vatican committee calls for the establishment of a world government, a “world political authority.

    The Vatican, isn’t that difficult to understand, they have been trying to run the world for centuries. Of course they would like to as I posted @ 21, they want a “central world bank” and a “global public authority” :

    “global public authority” and a “central world bank”

    You should write a letter to Rome, and ask them what you just asked me!

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace (@44), do you notice how infrequently you actually address the comments or questions directed your way? Make up your mind: are you discussing the Church here, or secular government?

    And where did you get the idea that this is about “blending” national governments into one world government? You are aware, I assume, that governments can exist at multiple levels (city, county, state, national, …), each with their own spheres and rules of interaction.

    And, again, by virtue of international treaties, we already have some things that are, in a fashion, government entities above the national level. You know, the UN and all that.

    So, again, what is your point here?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace (@44), do you notice how infrequently you actually address the comments or questions directed your way? Make up your mind: are you discussing the Church here, or secular government?

    And where did you get the idea that this is about “blending” national governments into one world government? You are aware, I assume, that governments can exist at multiple levels (city, county, state, national, …), each with their own spheres and rules of interaction.

    And, again, by virtue of international treaties, we already have some things that are, in a fashion, government entities above the national level. You know, the UN and all that.

    So, again, what is your point here?

  • Grace

    tODD @ 45

    YOU QESTION: “do you notice how infrequently you actually address the comments or questions directed your way? Make up your mind: are you discussing the Church here, or secular government?’

    You might ask yourself, why you complain all the time regarding my posts and others. My answers are clear! Of course you won’t agree, you wouldn’t have anything to bicker about if you did.

    Twisting the contents of posts around in your make believe washing machine doesn’t serve you well.

    The topic is — the Vatican wants a World Order, and that includes a world government, a “world political authority.” a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” —– that just about covers it.

    By implication, the Pope would be influential in this new order. The Vatican made clear their views, it would be wise to re-read what they wrote.

    Here is an example from above:

    Its decisions should not be the result of the more developed countries’ excessive power over the weaker countries. Instead, they should be made in the interest of all, not only to the advantage of some groups, whether they are formed by private lobbies or national governments.

    Just one big SOCIALIZED world, with the Vatican leading the way to what? Peace? – there is none, and there never will be until the LORD returns. As the passage of Scripture states, by Jesus Christ:

    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    Matthew 10:34

    This passage must fall on def ears in the Vatican, and many to many churches and congregants.

  • Grace

    tODD @ 45

    YOU QESTION: “do you notice how infrequently you actually address the comments or questions directed your way? Make up your mind: are you discussing the Church here, or secular government?’

    You might ask yourself, why you complain all the time regarding my posts and others. My answers are clear! Of course you won’t agree, you wouldn’t have anything to bicker about if you did.

    Twisting the contents of posts around in your make believe washing machine doesn’t serve you well.

    The topic is — the Vatican wants a World Order, and that includes a world government, a “world political authority.” a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” —– that just about covers it.

    By implication, the Pope would be influential in this new order. The Vatican made clear their views, it would be wise to re-read what they wrote.

    Here is an example from above:

    Its decisions should not be the result of the more developed countries’ excessive power over the weaker countries. Instead, they should be made in the interest of all, not only to the advantage of some groups, whether they are formed by private lobbies or national governments.

    Just one big SOCIALIZED world, with the Vatican leading the way to what? Peace? – there is none, and there never will be until the LORD returns. As the passage of Scripture states, by Jesus Christ:

    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    Matthew 10:34

    This passage must fall on def ears in the Vatican, and many to many churches and congregants.

  • Grace

    Below is a very interesting article regarding Italy.

    October 26, 2011 11:49 am

    Berlusconi held to the fire by EU partners

    By Guy Dinmore in Rome

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/5945e250-ffba-11e0-89ce-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1bwSHDF8W

  • Grace

    Below is a very interesting article regarding Italy.

    October 26, 2011 11:49 am

    Berlusconi held to the fire by EU partners

    By Guy Dinmore in Rome

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/5945e250-ffba-11e0-89ce-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1bwSHDF8W

  • Tim Schenks

    They already tried that: The Holy Roman Empire. Napoleon, also an advocate of a one world government (his own) ended that experiment.

  • Tim Schenks

    They already tried that: The Holy Roman Empire. Napoleon, also an advocate of a one world government (his own) ended that experiment.

  • larry

    The prophesies in the book of Revelation and elsewhere are actually meant as an encouragement to a Christian’s faith, especially the suffering church that confesses the orthodox faith. In essence its encouraging us by saying, wars, rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes will happen – don’t heed these, these things must come to pass as the judged world is in reality dying. The pagan world and heterodoxy mostly see’s these things, wars and rumors of wars, as signs. Jesus says in essence, “these simply are going to happen”, much like a sinking ship. To the Christian the encouragement is “don’t heed these as signs of your judgment” Christ’s righteousness has not abandoned you, you are baptized, etc…

    Then on the other hand it encourages the orthodoxy by warning and saying many false prophets have and will go out into the world. These are the signs and disasters that the pagans and heterodox don’t see because they don’t heed the real soul murdering danger in these and “rub them off” as more or less “ehh this doctrine is none essential, will just agree to disagree”. But false prophets and heterodoxies from without the “Christian label” or within do more eternal damage than do the sword to the body or the lack of a successful 401K plan for these lead men astray and withhold them from the truth so that at last their very souls are damned. There is really no more deadly and painful thing than a false doctrine that leaves the conscience dirty and leads men into despair, whether it is the despairing doctrines of evolution from without the church or something like believers baptism or double predestination, the net result is despair of hope unto Judas’ way. Here men REALLY die and the soul is murdered, the real death occurs, the second death and not the “childish death” (as Luther put it) of just the body.

    In this the orthodoxy finds a great encouragement as its “numbers” and “influence” wanes over time as the last day progresses unknown as to when but nonetheless progresses closer and closer to that when. Orthodoxy is always tempted to wonder why heterodox churches grow and become more influential, but this is the way it must be as heterodoxy multiplies like flies and finds much success and influence, while orthodoxy like her Lord is increasingly seemingly weakened, laughed upon for her doctrines (persecution as like the laughter of Ishmael toward Isaac). Orthodoxy is, thus, greatly, tempted to lower her doctrine, lower the “hallowed by Thy name”, in order to be “part of” the heterodoxy growth and visible success. But Christ says and the book of Revelation says to not be seduced by these things for they too must and will come to be/pass. Orthodoxy is greatly tempted as Sasse put it being squeezed between the two poles of Rome on one side and Protestantism on the other, it is a “Lonely Way”.

    Revelation is along with other NT warnings a revealing of the reality that looks otherwise to the naked eye. It’s a “peeling back” of the façade that looks one way to the eye, as it were, whereby the eyes of faith see the reality as it is. Analogy, cheap as it may be: recall that scene in the first Matrix movie when Reeve’s character first awakens from the “programmed reality” finding himself in this parasitic embryonic sack whereby the machines are using humans en masse as a fuel source. It’s like that. So that world and heterodoxy seem successful, but peeled back, the reality is its false and heading toward damnation. While the church and her orthodox expression of the Word of God is seen as ever more failing and falling apart, yet she is in the end taken unto her Lord into glory and the saints already fallen asleep in the wounds of Christ to this very moment are with her. The lies out of hell see a sneering sarcastic, “where is the promise of his coming…things are as they’ve always been”. But the façade is peeled back that this eye sees and faith sees under the hidden great amounts of time the promised return is sure. The world sees “just grave yards full of dead men’s bones”, faith sees under the peeled back façade the resurrection. The world sees a failing and falling apart church, faith sees the bride of Christ, God Himself that shall never fail and even have ultimate eternal victory. Heterodoxy sees “just water” or just “bread and wine”, but the peeled back Word revelation that faith sees is the very name of God, salvation, the Holy Spirit, the Lord’s very body and blood. The same sees “just a man preaching”, but faith sees “peeled back under the façade” God Himself forgiving one personally via that preachers voice.

    So the “end times” if you will, or however one wishes to capture that, via the word’s of Christ, Paul and John are great encouragements by first saying, “these appearing evil things will be happening, don’t be fooled and don’t be discouraged by their façade and temptation”, because, “pull back the sheet of time and space and here is what is REALLY going on”. And THAT is a great faith building and strengthening encouragement.

  • larry

    The prophesies in the book of Revelation and elsewhere are actually meant as an encouragement to a Christian’s faith, especially the suffering church that confesses the orthodox faith. In essence its encouraging us by saying, wars, rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes will happen – don’t heed these, these things must come to pass as the judged world is in reality dying. The pagan world and heterodoxy mostly see’s these things, wars and rumors of wars, as signs. Jesus says in essence, “these simply are going to happen”, much like a sinking ship. To the Christian the encouragement is “don’t heed these as signs of your judgment” Christ’s righteousness has not abandoned you, you are baptized, etc…

    Then on the other hand it encourages the orthodoxy by warning and saying many false prophets have and will go out into the world. These are the signs and disasters that the pagans and heterodox don’t see because they don’t heed the real soul murdering danger in these and “rub them off” as more or less “ehh this doctrine is none essential, will just agree to disagree”. But false prophets and heterodoxies from without the “Christian label” or within do more eternal damage than do the sword to the body or the lack of a successful 401K plan for these lead men astray and withhold them from the truth so that at last their very souls are damned. There is really no more deadly and painful thing than a false doctrine that leaves the conscience dirty and leads men into despair, whether it is the despairing doctrines of evolution from without the church or something like believers baptism or double predestination, the net result is despair of hope unto Judas’ way. Here men REALLY die and the soul is murdered, the real death occurs, the second death and not the “childish death” (as Luther put it) of just the body.

    In this the orthodoxy finds a great encouragement as its “numbers” and “influence” wanes over time as the last day progresses unknown as to when but nonetheless progresses closer and closer to that when. Orthodoxy is always tempted to wonder why heterodox churches grow and become more influential, but this is the way it must be as heterodoxy multiplies like flies and finds much success and influence, while orthodoxy like her Lord is increasingly seemingly weakened, laughed upon for her doctrines (persecution as like the laughter of Ishmael toward Isaac). Orthodoxy is, thus, greatly, tempted to lower her doctrine, lower the “hallowed by Thy name”, in order to be “part of” the heterodoxy growth and visible success. But Christ says and the book of Revelation says to not be seduced by these things for they too must and will come to be/pass. Orthodoxy is greatly tempted as Sasse put it being squeezed between the two poles of Rome on one side and Protestantism on the other, it is a “Lonely Way”.

    Revelation is along with other NT warnings a revealing of the reality that looks otherwise to the naked eye. It’s a “peeling back” of the façade that looks one way to the eye, as it were, whereby the eyes of faith see the reality as it is. Analogy, cheap as it may be: recall that scene in the first Matrix movie when Reeve’s character first awakens from the “programmed reality” finding himself in this parasitic embryonic sack whereby the machines are using humans en masse as a fuel source. It’s like that. So that world and heterodoxy seem successful, but peeled back, the reality is its false and heading toward damnation. While the church and her orthodox expression of the Word of God is seen as ever more failing and falling apart, yet she is in the end taken unto her Lord into glory and the saints already fallen asleep in the wounds of Christ to this very moment are with her. The lies out of hell see a sneering sarcastic, “where is the promise of his coming…things are as they’ve always been”. But the façade is peeled back that this eye sees and faith sees under the hidden great amounts of time the promised return is sure. The world sees “just grave yards full of dead men’s bones”, faith sees under the peeled back façade the resurrection. The world sees a failing and falling apart church, faith sees the bride of Christ, God Himself that shall never fail and even have ultimate eternal victory. Heterodoxy sees “just water” or just “bread and wine”, but the peeled back Word revelation that faith sees is the very name of God, salvation, the Holy Spirit, the Lord’s very body and blood. The same sees “just a man preaching”, but faith sees “peeled back under the façade” God Himself forgiving one personally via that preachers voice.

    So the “end times” if you will, or however one wishes to capture that, via the word’s of Christ, Paul and John are great encouragements by first saying, “these appearing evil things will be happening, don’t be fooled and don’t be discouraged by their façade and temptation”, because, “pull back the sheet of time and space and here is what is REALLY going on”. And THAT is a great faith building and strengthening encouragement.

  • http://concordiaandkoinonia.wordpress.com/ Rev. Mark Schroeder

    The following paragraphs are the conclusion of the Pontifical Counsel’s statement which for Lutherans is paramount for my concern about this document. After which, I comment:

    “The birth of a new society and the building of new institutions with a universal vocation and competence are a prerogative and a duty for everyone, with no distinction. What is at stake is the common good of humanity and the future itself.In this context, for every Christian there is a special call of the Spirit to become committed decisively and generously so that the many dynamics under way will be channelled towards prospects of fraternity and the common good. An immense amount of work is to be done towards the integral development of peoples and of every person. As the Fathers said at the Second Vatican Council, this is a mission that is both social and spiritual, which “ to the extent that the former can contribute to the better ordering of human society, it is of vital concern to the Kingdom of God.”
    In a world on its way to rapid globalization, the reference to a world Authority becomes the only horizon compatible with the new realities of our time and the needs of humankind. However, it should not be forgotten that this development, given wounded human nature, will not come about without anguish and suffering.Through the account of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1-9), the Bible warns us how the “diversity” of peoples can turn into a vehicle for selfishness and an instrument of division. In humanity there is a real risk that peoples will end up not understanding each other and that cultural diversities will lead to irremediable oppositions. The image of the Tower of Babel also warns us that we must avoid a “unity” that is only apparent, where selfishness and divisions endure because the foundations of the society are not stable. In both cases, Babel is the image of what peoples and individuals can become when they do not recognize their intrinsic transcendent dignity and brotherhood.
    The spirit of Babel is the antithesis of the Spirit of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-12), of God’s design for the whole of humanity: that is, unity in truth. Only a spirit of concord that rises above divisions and conflicts will allow humanity to be authentically one family and to conceive of a new world with the creation of a world public Authority at the service of the common good.”

    I opine that at the end of this document that things become Biblically frightening in terms of confusing the two Kingdoms, rules of God, temporal and eternal in these ways:

    1. It sure sounds as individual Christians under a “…special call of the Spirit” are to commit decisively for this program. Where is this ‘special call’ in the Scripture”? (And note that this special call is “channeled” which smacks of a dark enthusiasm.)
    2. Is it being suggest that this new world Authority which is “…of vital concern to the Kingdom of God” will help bring about the Kingdom or possibly our building of the Kingdom? How is this different from American evangelicals suggesting that this “Christian nation” is a prelude to the Kingdom of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Then note the absolute thinking on this: “…the reference to a world Authority becomes the ONLY horizon compatible with the new realities of our time and the needs of humankind.” (emphasis my own). Who said this is the ONLY way? There is none other in God’s designs and thought (which are not out thoughts) for the nations of the world? Who told the Pontifical Counsel this is the ONLY way?
    3. The comparison of Babel and Pentecost, which is Biblically and theologically valid in terms of the reign of God in Jesus Christ (Kingdom of God’s right hand), but this is called “…God’s design for the WHOLE of humanity” (emphasis my own) and is used for this worldly government designing. This is terribly confusing the two Kingdoms. Are we to appropriate Pentecost for a design on this world Authority? Who told us we can do that? Is Pentecost the Lord’s design for the whole of humanity apart from Jesus Christ and the Lord’s Kingdom for which we pray to come by His Authority (the only capitalization of this word that seems to be Biblically sound) ? Note that the contrast of Babel and Pentecost is appropriated and even hijacked from the Lord’s reign in the death and resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ into the new world “Authority” (fwiw: I find it scary to see this word capitalized in this document).
    I understand that this Pontifical Counsel and the previous Bishops of Rome want to do good for the whole of humanity but doing good apart from God in His revealed Word is always a recipe for disasters in the making. “I will give you all the kingdoms of the world, if you will just worship me.” Though that is not the goodly intent of this counsel, the result can be the same. ‘Don’t give me the ring, for by it I will do good’—Gandalf.

  • http://concordiaandkoinonia.wordpress.com/ Rev. Mark Schroeder

    The following paragraphs are the conclusion of the Pontifical Counsel’s statement which for Lutherans is paramount for my concern about this document. After which, I comment:

    “The birth of a new society and the building of new institutions with a universal vocation and competence are a prerogative and a duty for everyone, with no distinction. What is at stake is the common good of humanity and the future itself.In this context, for every Christian there is a special call of the Spirit to become committed decisively and generously so that the many dynamics under way will be channelled towards prospects of fraternity and the common good. An immense amount of work is to be done towards the integral development of peoples and of every person. As the Fathers said at the Second Vatican Council, this is a mission that is both social and spiritual, which “ to the extent that the former can contribute to the better ordering of human society, it is of vital concern to the Kingdom of God.”
    In a world on its way to rapid globalization, the reference to a world Authority becomes the only horizon compatible with the new realities of our time and the needs of humankind. However, it should not be forgotten that this development, given wounded human nature, will not come about without anguish and suffering.Through the account of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1-9), the Bible warns us how the “diversity” of peoples can turn into a vehicle for selfishness and an instrument of division. In humanity there is a real risk that peoples will end up not understanding each other and that cultural diversities will lead to irremediable oppositions. The image of the Tower of Babel also warns us that we must avoid a “unity” that is only apparent, where selfishness and divisions endure because the foundations of the society are not stable. In both cases, Babel is the image of what peoples and individuals can become when they do not recognize their intrinsic transcendent dignity and brotherhood.
    The spirit of Babel is the antithesis of the Spirit of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-12), of God’s design for the whole of humanity: that is, unity in truth. Only a spirit of concord that rises above divisions and conflicts will allow humanity to be authentically one family and to conceive of a new world with the creation of a world public Authority at the service of the common good.”

    I opine that at the end of this document that things become Biblically frightening in terms of confusing the two Kingdoms, rules of God, temporal and eternal in these ways:

    1. It sure sounds as individual Christians under a “…special call of the Spirit” are to commit decisively for this program. Where is this ‘special call’ in the Scripture”? (And note that this special call is “channeled” which smacks of a dark enthusiasm.)
    2. Is it being suggest that this new world Authority which is “…of vital concern to the Kingdom of God” will help bring about the Kingdom or possibly our building of the Kingdom? How is this different from American evangelicals suggesting that this “Christian nation” is a prelude to the Kingdom of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Then note the absolute thinking on this: “…the reference to a world Authority becomes the ONLY horizon compatible with the new realities of our time and the needs of humankind.” (emphasis my own). Who said this is the ONLY way? There is none other in God’s designs and thought (which are not out thoughts) for the nations of the world? Who told the Pontifical Counsel this is the ONLY way?
    3. The comparison of Babel and Pentecost, which is Biblically and theologically valid in terms of the reign of God in Jesus Christ (Kingdom of God’s right hand), but this is called “…God’s design for the WHOLE of humanity” (emphasis my own) and is used for this worldly government designing. This is terribly confusing the two Kingdoms. Are we to appropriate Pentecost for a design on this world Authority? Who told us we can do that? Is Pentecost the Lord’s design for the whole of humanity apart from Jesus Christ and the Lord’s Kingdom for which we pray to come by His Authority (the only capitalization of this word that seems to be Biblically sound) ? Note that the contrast of Babel and Pentecost is appropriated and even hijacked from the Lord’s reign in the death and resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ into the new world “Authority” (fwiw: I find it scary to see this word capitalized in this document).
    I understand that this Pontifical Counsel and the previous Bishops of Rome want to do good for the whole of humanity but doing good apart from God in His revealed Word is always a recipe for disasters in the making. “I will give you all the kingdoms of the world, if you will just worship me.” Though that is not the goodly intent of this counsel, the result can be the same. ‘Don’t give me the ring, for by it I will do good’—Gandalf.


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