Romney’s Vice-Presidential pick?

If we are going to do our traditional “guess the vice-president” game, we’d better hurry, since, reportedly, Mitt Romney will announce his choice before the Republican convention.

It seems to me that the conventional wisdom that the vice president doesn’t matter is wrong on several levels.  The person who holds that office has assumed the presidency quite often, not just when the president dies in office but as the heir apparent as the next party nominee.  In light of that, the casual way presidential nominees have tended to pick their running-mates seems to me to be unconscionable.  And if the office itself is “not worth a warm bucket of spit,” as one statesman described it, that is due, in part, to few of the office holders taking advantage of its potential.  The president of the Senate–that is, the person who presides over the deliberations and who can break a tie vote–could be a powerful position, especially when the body is closely divided as will probably be the case after this election.  I think, at the very least, that the conventions should nominate and elect the vice presidential candidates.

Back to our game:  In addition to guessing who Romney’s running-mate will be, I’d like to hear who you would like it to be.  That is, who would make you feel better about voting for the Romney ticket?

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • Rose

    Mitch Daniels would be a quiet strength on the ticket.
    A strong candidate picks a strong VP (Cheney).
    Obama picked a weak, posturing, bumbling sidekick.
    Biden is his foil and makes him look presidential.
    Similarly, Nixon’s choice of Agnew made the impeachment of Nixon difficult. His opponents had to remove Agnew first.

  • Rose

    Mitch Daniels would be a quiet strength on the ticket.
    A strong candidate picks a strong VP (Cheney).
    Obama picked a weak, posturing, bumbling sidekick.
    Biden is his foil and makes him look presidential.
    Similarly, Nixon’s choice of Agnew made the impeachment of Nixon difficult. His opponents had to remove Agnew first.

  • fws

    I would like to see Jeb Bush. But maybe not. Why not? Of all the republicans out there, I would rather see him be president than anyone else I could think of. He was a great governor.

    But he is probably to moderate to get elected.

  • fws

    I would like to see Jeb Bush. But maybe not. Why not? Of all the republicans out there, I would rather see him be president than anyone else I could think of. He was a great governor.

    But he is probably to moderate to get elected.

  • Jack

    Tim Pawlenty.

  • Jack

    Tim Pawlenty.

  • http://theoldadam.com/ Steve Martin

    Joel Osteen.

    (every Biden deserves an equal and opposite reaction)

  • http://theoldadam.com/ Steve Martin

    Joel Osteen.

    (every Biden deserves an equal and opposite reaction)

  • fws

    at least biden and obama are christians.

  • fws

    at least biden and obama are christians.

  • SKPeterson

    I’d be opposed to removing an effective governor from office in order to fill the political slop bucket that is the office of VP. I’m also opposed to filling the position with a bumbling, ineffective senator. So, I’d rather double-down and have a bumbling, somewhat ineffective former governor or senator to counter the awesome lunacy that is Biden. Candidates: Palin, Perry or Lindsey Graham.

  • SKPeterson

    I’d be opposed to removing an effective governor from office in order to fill the political slop bucket that is the office of VP. I’m also opposed to filling the position with a bumbling, ineffective senator. So, I’d rather double-down and have a bumbling, somewhat ineffective former governor or senator to counter the awesome lunacy that is Biden. Candidates: Palin, Perry or Lindsey Graham.

  • Orianna Laun

    I am still hoping for Tim Pawlenty.

  • Orianna Laun

    I am still hoping for Tim Pawlenty.

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    fws @5, I would say that they are professing Christians. They don’t seem to show it (Titus 1:16).

    As for the question at hand, how about Rand Paul?

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    fws @5, I would say that they are professing Christians. They don’t seem to show it (Titus 1:16).

    As for the question at hand, how about Rand Paul?

  • Richard

    Gov. Chris Christie. He would make the race entertaining.

  • Richard

    Gov. Chris Christie. He would make the race entertaining.

  • Morgan

    First rule here is “do no harm.” Mitch just took the gig at Purdue, so he’s out. Rubio and Haley are too young, and both might smack of a Palinesque surprise choice (something Romney’s folks have said explicitly they will not do).

    Christie’s popular, but people are smoking crack if they think he’ll wow the conservatives in the party. While decent on fiscal policy, he’s painfully left of just about every other Republican choice out there. Ryan and Jindal are probably too young as well, and are extremely effective right where they are, most especially Ryan, who seems to be almost the only coherent voice about fiscal reform in Congress…

    I think Pawlenty/Portman is your toss-up. Pawlenty is between gigs, and quite obviously quit the race way, way too early. And he’s made himself unbelievably available to the Romney campaign. He’s nearly a full-timer, flying around stumping for Mitt.

  • Morgan

    First rule here is “do no harm.” Mitch just took the gig at Purdue, so he’s out. Rubio and Haley are too young, and both might smack of a Palinesque surprise choice (something Romney’s folks have said explicitly they will not do).

    Christie’s popular, but people are smoking crack if they think he’ll wow the conservatives in the party. While decent on fiscal policy, he’s painfully left of just about every other Republican choice out there. Ryan and Jindal are probably too young as well, and are extremely effective right where they are, most especially Ryan, who seems to be almost the only coherent voice about fiscal reform in Congress…

    I think Pawlenty/Portman is your toss-up. Pawlenty is between gigs, and quite obviously quit the race way, way too early. And he’s made himself unbelievably available to the Romney campaign. He’s nearly a full-timer, flying around stumping for Mitt.

  • Ken

    In practice, I think Portman, Pawlenty, and Jindal (in that order) are most probable. Recent electoral math shows that Romney will rely heavily on the battleground states, hence Portman’s appeal. As a former Portman constituent during his days in Congress, I see him as a reliable and safe choice; that said, Romney and Portman would arguably constitute the most robotic ticket in the history of presidential politics.

    More ideally, I’d love to see Rand Paul or Mitch Daniels, but due to the former’s strong independent streak and the latter’s recent appointment to Purdue, both are highly unlikely.

  • Ken

    In practice, I think Portman, Pawlenty, and Jindal (in that order) are most probable. Recent electoral math shows that Romney will rely heavily on the battleground states, hence Portman’s appeal. As a former Portman constituent during his days in Congress, I see him as a reliable and safe choice; that said, Romney and Portman would arguably constitute the most robotic ticket in the history of presidential politics.

    More ideally, I’d love to see Rand Paul or Mitch Daniels, but due to the former’s strong independent streak and the latter’s recent appointment to Purdue, both are highly unlikely.

  • http://www.gslcnm.com Pastor Spomer

    “That is, who would make you feel better about voting for the Romney ticket?”
    Athanasius

  • http://www.gslcnm.com Pastor Spomer

    “That is, who would make you feel better about voting for the Romney ticket?”
    Athanasius

  • http://www.urnsnw.com Daniel

    Athanasius = that made me lol

  • http://www.urnsnw.com Daniel

    Athanasius = that made me lol

  • https://plus.google.com/u/0/108282121506388079527/about Franklin Ross

    “The president of the Senate–that is, the person who presides over the deliberations and who can break a tie vote–could be a powerful position … ”

    I don’t understand why more Presidents (or Vice Presidents, for that matter) don’t see this logic. It’s a no-brainer, really. Especially when they’re concerned with establishing liasons with the Congress. They have a powerful voice in the Congress, plus an insider’s view of what’s going on, with a man (or woman) that is already in their inner circle!

  • https://plus.google.com/u/0/108282121506388079527/about Franklin Ross

    “The president of the Senate–that is, the person who presides over the deliberations and who can break a tie vote–could be a powerful position … ”

    I don’t understand why more Presidents (or Vice Presidents, for that matter) don’t see this logic. It’s a no-brainer, really. Especially when they’re concerned with establishing liasons with the Congress. They have a powerful voice in the Congress, plus an insider’s view of what’s going on, with a man (or woman) that is already in their inner circle!

  • Cincinnatus

    Guys, guys, guys. And ladies. Listen up:

    The electoral calculus shows that Romney has no chance of winning unless he wins back some typically Republican states that Obama won in 2008 (e.g., Virginia and North Carolina) and snags a couple of significant swing states. For example, Ohio. So I’m fairly convinced by the narrative speculating that Romney will go for someone like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Portman

    I could be all wrong though. For example, he’s not likely to lose Indiana, so he would lose nothing by selecting Mitch Daniels. But in my opinion he wouldn’t gain much either.

    Meanwhile, while I loathe her neoconservatism, am I the only one who thinks Romney would be making a savvy choice if he selected Condoleeza Rice? Black, female, competent. She ticks all the boxes, though I suppose she’s not profoundly “conservative” according to the going definition of “conservatism.” (Yes, I know the identity politics are shallow and ridiculous, if not outright pernicious.)

  • Cincinnatus

    Guys, guys, guys. And ladies. Listen up:

    The electoral calculus shows that Romney has no chance of winning unless he wins back some typically Republican states that Obama won in 2008 (e.g., Virginia and North Carolina) and snags a couple of significant swing states. For example, Ohio. So I’m fairly convinced by the narrative speculating that Romney will go for someone like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Portman

    I could be all wrong though. For example, he’s not likely to lose Indiana, so he would lose nothing by selecting Mitch Daniels. But in my opinion he wouldn’t gain much either.

    Meanwhile, while I loathe her neoconservatism, am I the only one who thinks Romney would be making a savvy choice if he selected Condoleeza Rice? Black, female, competent. She ticks all the boxes, though I suppose she’s not profoundly “conservative” according to the going definition of “conservatism.” (Yes, I know the identity politics are shallow and ridiculous, if not outright pernicious.)

  • DonS

    I don’t believe that Romney thinks he needs to shake up the race — his numbers are looking good and Obama is doing everything he can to hand the presidency to Romney. Therefore, unlike the case for McCain in 2008, when he believed he had to change the race dynamics with his pick, Romney is leaning toward a safe choice that potentially picks up a swing region and shores up conservative Christian voters who aren’t convinced about the moderate Mormon. Portman from Ohio and Pawlenty from Minnesota fit the bill.

  • DonS

    I don’t believe that Romney thinks he needs to shake up the race — his numbers are looking good and Obama is doing everything he can to hand the presidency to Romney. Therefore, unlike the case for McCain in 2008, when he believed he had to change the race dynamics with his pick, Romney is leaning toward a safe choice that potentially picks up a swing region and shores up conservative Christian voters who aren’t convinced about the moderate Mormon. Portman from Ohio and Pawlenty from Minnesota fit the bill.

  • Dust

    Donald Duck….er, Trump :)

    cheers!

  • Dust

    Donald Duck….er, Trump :)

    cheers!

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Pawlenty. Because “Mitt/Tim” is a palindrome. People love palindromes.

    Of course, they also love Palin. She was clearly the wrong choice in 2008, but this election, she just might work! I mean, she can’t be a terrible vice presidential candidate every election, right?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Pawlenty. Because “Mitt/Tim” is a palindrome. People love palindromes.

    Of course, they also love Palin. She was clearly the wrong choice in 2008, but this election, she just might work! I mean, she can’t be a terrible vice presidential candidate every election, right?

  • DonS

    After Joe Biden, really, Romney can’t make a bad choice.

  • DonS

    After Joe Biden, really, Romney can’t make a bad choice.

  • Kathy

    VA Governor Bob McDonnell.

  • Kathy

    VA Governor Bob McDonnell.

  • Grace

    Romney is a terrible choice for America. A dark light.

    I will not be voting in this election for a presidential candidate. It’s the first time since being of age. My conscience would never be silent.

    Romney and Obama are very different. Obama dismantled the foundation of this country. Romney’s beliefs will integrate themselves in those who are vulnerable and weak. I am hoping, this new era, will awaken the true church of Believers to see the folly. Hopefully the Word of God will be spread with more vigor and intensity.

    God help us!

  • Grace

    Romney is a terrible choice for America. A dark light.

    I will not be voting in this election for a presidential candidate. It’s the first time since being of age. My conscience would never be silent.

    Romney and Obama are very different. Obama dismantled the foundation of this country. Romney’s beliefs will integrate themselves in those who are vulnerable and weak. I am hoping, this new era, will awaken the true church of Believers to see the folly. Hopefully the Word of God will be spread with more vigor and intensity.

    God help us!

  • mikeb

    Don’t be surprised if he selects a “retired” party loyalist/solid conservative former Congressman. Think Jack Kemp or Dick Cheney. Tim “awwshucks” Pawlenty might fit that bill and help bring some midwest sensability.

    Rob Portman might help with Ohio and his budget chops would be an asset but is he too connected to GW? Marco Rubio might help with Florida but I suspect he isn’t seasoned enough since part of Romney’s rationale needs to be competence and replacing a first term senator in the big chair with a first term senator is the veep chair sends the wrong message.

    For sure, it won’t be Condi Rice, Jeb Bush, or Sarah Palin.

  • mikeb

    Don’t be surprised if he selects a “retired” party loyalist/solid conservative former Congressman. Think Jack Kemp or Dick Cheney. Tim “awwshucks” Pawlenty might fit that bill and help bring some midwest sensability.

    Rob Portman might help with Ohio and his budget chops would be an asset but is he too connected to GW? Marco Rubio might help with Florida but I suspect he isn’t seasoned enough since part of Romney’s rationale needs to be competence and replacing a first term senator in the big chair with a first term senator is the veep chair sends the wrong message.

    For sure, it won’t be Condi Rice, Jeb Bush, or Sarah Palin.

  • mikeb

    Grace @ 21

    ‘I’d rather be governed by a smart Turk than a dumb Christian.’

    -Luther, paraphrased

  • mikeb

    Grace @ 21

    ‘I’d rather be governed by a smart Turk than a dumb Christian.’

    -Luther, paraphrased

  • Corno di Bassetto

    My inclination is still to write in “none of the above is acceptable.”

  • Corno di Bassetto

    My inclination is still to write in “none of the above is acceptable.”

  • Bob

    Scott Walker would be great.

    Please?
    :)

  • Bob

    Scott Walker would be great.

    Please?
    :)

  • larry

    Bill Clinton

  • larry

    Bill Clinton

  • Grace

    Mike @ 23

    Senseless – It isn’t applicable.

  • Grace

    Mike @ 23

    Senseless – It isn’t applicable.

  • larry

    Before Luther gets falsely blamed, Luther didn’t say that.

  • larry

    Before Luther gets falsely blamed, Luther didn’t say that.

  • Grace

    Larry @ 28

    “Before Luther gets falsely blamed, Luther didn’t say that.

    Wouldn’t Dr. Harrison have known better, if in fact this is a false quote from Martin Luther?

    Missouri Synod President tells House Committee:
    LCMS ‘religiously opposed to supporting abortion-causing drugs’

    ST. LOUIS—February 16, 2012—The Rev. Dr. Matthew C. Harrison, president of the St. Louis-based Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod, was one of several witnesses to give testimony today during the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform’s hearing, “Lines Crossed: Separation of Church and State. Has the Obama Administration Trampled on Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Conscience?” Following are Harrison’s comments to the committee:

    “Mr. Chairman, it’s a pleasure to be here. The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod is a body of some 6,200 congregations and 2.3 million members across the U.S. We don’t distribute voters’ lists. We don’t have a Washington office. We are studiously non-partisan, so much so that we’re often criticized for being quietistic.
    “I’d rather not be here, frankly. Our task is to proclaim, in the words of the blessed apostle St. John, the blood of Jesus Christ, God’s Son, cleanses us from all our sin. And we care for the needy. We haven’t the slightest intent to Christianize the government. Martin Luther famously quipped one time, ‘I’d rather have a smart Turk than a stupid Christian governing me.’

    http://www.geneveith.com/2012/06/22/romneys-vice-presidential-pick/#comment-153949

  • Grace

    Larry @ 28

    “Before Luther gets falsely blamed, Luther didn’t say that.

    Wouldn’t Dr. Harrison have known better, if in fact this is a false quote from Martin Luther?

    Missouri Synod President tells House Committee:
    LCMS ‘religiously opposed to supporting abortion-causing drugs’

    ST. LOUIS—February 16, 2012—The Rev. Dr. Matthew C. Harrison, president of the St. Louis-based Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod, was one of several witnesses to give testimony today during the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform’s hearing, “Lines Crossed: Separation of Church and State. Has the Obama Administration Trampled on Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Conscience?” Following are Harrison’s comments to the committee:

    “Mr. Chairman, it’s a pleasure to be here. The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod is a body of some 6,200 congregations and 2.3 million members across the U.S. We don’t distribute voters’ lists. We don’t have a Washington office. We are studiously non-partisan, so much so that we’re often criticized for being quietistic.
    “I’d rather not be here, frankly. Our task is to proclaim, in the words of the blessed apostle St. John, the blood of Jesus Christ, God’s Son, cleanses us from all our sin. And we care for the needy. We haven’t the slightest intent to Christianize the government. Martin Luther famously quipped one time, ‘I’d rather have a smart Turk than a stupid Christian governing me.’

    http://www.geneveith.com/2012/06/22/romneys-vice-presidential-pick/#comment-153949

  • larry

    Yes and I even use to think it was true, but the Luther quote is simply an urban legend, an old wives’ tale and a fiction.

    However, Luther did say: “But as the pope is Antichrist, so the Turk is the very devil. The prayer of Christendom is against both. Both shall go down to hell, even though it may take the Last Day to send them there; and I hope it will not be long.” “Moreover, I hear it said that there are those in Germany who desire the coming of the Turk and his government, because they would rather be under the Turk than under the emperor or princes… For it is misery enough to be compelled to suffer the Turk as overlord and to endure his government; but willingly to put oneself under it, or to desire it, when one need not and is not compelled – the man who does that ought to be shown the sin he is committing and how terribly he is going on.”

    As to the voting this time around, I don’t disagree with you, it’s quite depressing.

  • larry

    Yes and I even use to think it was true, but the Luther quote is simply an urban legend, an old wives’ tale and a fiction.

    However, Luther did say: “But as the pope is Antichrist, so the Turk is the very devil. The prayer of Christendom is against both. Both shall go down to hell, even though it may take the Last Day to send them there; and I hope it will not be long.” “Moreover, I hear it said that there are those in Germany who desire the coming of the Turk and his government, because they would rather be under the Turk than under the emperor or princes… For it is misery enough to be compelled to suffer the Turk as overlord and to endure his government; but willingly to put oneself under it, or to desire it, when one need not and is not compelled – the man who does that ought to be shown the sin he is committing and how terribly he is going on.”

    As to the voting this time around, I don’t disagree with you, it’s quite depressing.

  • SKPeterson

    Personally, I have to say that the Veep selection is THE make or break issue for me.

  • SKPeterson

    Personally, I have to say that the Veep selection is THE make or break issue for me.

  • http://steadfastlutherans.org/ SAL

    I’m voting Romney no matter what he does because Obama wants to eliminate my job (along with hundreds of thousands of other defense jobs). I can’t afford that right now.

    I’m not inclined to vote for Obama but only an imbecile would vote for him if you make your living from the defense industry.

  • http://steadfastlutherans.org/ SAL

    I’m voting Romney no matter what he does because Obama wants to eliminate my job (along with hundreds of thousands of other defense jobs). I can’t afford that right now.

    I’m not inclined to vote for Obama but only an imbecile would vote for him if you make your living from the defense industry.

  • Lou G

    Cincy, that’s the first I’ve heard Condi Rice mentioned for VP, but I’d have to admit that I’m with you on that one. She would make a brilliant choice demographically, strictly from an election standpoint. Not sure she would be the best to help him politically, but boy you would change quite a bit of the narrative for the election season….

    Have to think some more on that one … :)

  • Lou G

    Cincy, that’s the first I’ve heard Condi Rice mentioned for VP, but I’d have to admit that I’m with you on that one. She would make a brilliant choice demographically, strictly from an election standpoint. Not sure she would be the best to help him politically, but boy you would change quite a bit of the narrative for the election season….

    Have to think some more on that one … :)

  • Stone the Crows

    Typically moderate republican or liberal democrat politicians who hail from the east pick a running mate who has two qualifications 1) they can help carry the south 2) won’t overshadow the Presidential candidate in popularity. Romney seems to be doing fairly well in some southern states but he needs a knock out punch in the southern states that carried Obama in ’08. I can’t think of anyone who would be willing to run who fills that bill. I suspect that Romney will be true to form aim for the middle and select a running mate who will be suitably benign, i.e., who won’t get the ‘Sarah Palin pt 2 the new beginning’treatment in by the press, nor will he be a ‘slow Joe’ Biden liability.

  • Stone the Crows

    Typically moderate republican or liberal democrat politicians who hail from the east pick a running mate who has two qualifications 1) they can help carry the south 2) won’t overshadow the Presidential candidate in popularity. Romney seems to be doing fairly well in some southern states but he needs a knock out punch in the southern states that carried Obama in ’08. I can’t think of anyone who would be willing to run who fills that bill. I suspect that Romney will be true to form aim for the middle and select a running mate who will be suitably benign, i.e., who won’t get the ‘Sarah Palin pt 2 the new beginning’treatment in by the press, nor will he be a ‘slow Joe’ Biden liability.

  • Lou G

    Thought some more about Condi, and I don’t think it will work, because Mitt needs someone who will not draw traditional conservative values into question at this time. Condi is neither a social nor a fiscal conservative.

    I’m going with Pawlenty. Here is what the Washington Times wrote about him a month or so ago (I agree with their assessment):

    “The best choice for Vice President is Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty. He is tall, has good hair, is inoffensive and harmlessly non-descript. He is also a successful two-term executive who got things done despite having a legislature in a Blue State controlled by Democrats.

    “While the left will look for an excuse to hate whoever the choice is, with Mr. Pawlenty it would be “fake hate.” He is a calm, serious, likable guy. He also has a decent sense of humor, and is not nearly as boring as he is made out to be. He is a former hockey player who likes to be called T-Paw. Until becoming a serious presidential contender, he even had a mullet.

    “The Romney-Pawlenty ticket would be derided as the most charismatically challenged ticket in the history of American politics. In today’s serious times, that is exactly what America needs. It is time for the poets to depart the stage and be replaced with serious adults with Excel spreadsheets and diagonal neckties.

    “Governor Tim Pawlenty is the best choice for Vice President.
    The best choice for Vice President is Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty. He is tall, has good hair, is inoffensive and harmlessly non-descript. He is also a successful two-term executive who got things done despite having a legislature in a Blue State controlled by Democrats.

    “While the left will look for an excuse to hate whoever the choice is, with Mr. Pawlenty it would be “fake hate.” He is a calm, serious, likable guy. He also has a decent sense of humor, and is not nearly as boring as he is made out to be. He is a former hockey player who likes to be called T-Paw. Until becoming a serious presidential contender, he even had a mullet.

    “The Romney-Pawlenty ticket would be derided as the most charismatically challenged ticket in the history of American politics. In today’s serious times, that is exactly what America needs. It is time for the poets to depart the stage and be replaced with serious adults with Excel spreadsheets and diagonal neckties.

    “Governor Tim Pawlenty is the best choice for Vice President.”
    –from the Washington Times.

    (Plus, Pawlenty isn’t a first term, sitting governor/senator/congressman. He is more seasoned in his experience than christie, rubio, ryan and a bunch of others). After having 8 years of experience and a great track record, he is a solid choice without a bunch of “celebrity” fanfare and fireworks. Which is fine by me.

  • Lou G

    Thought some more about Condi, and I don’t think it will work, because Mitt needs someone who will not draw traditional conservative values into question at this time. Condi is neither a social nor a fiscal conservative.

    I’m going with Pawlenty. Here is what the Washington Times wrote about him a month or so ago (I agree with their assessment):

    “The best choice for Vice President is Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty. He is tall, has good hair, is inoffensive and harmlessly non-descript. He is also a successful two-term executive who got things done despite having a legislature in a Blue State controlled by Democrats.

    “While the left will look for an excuse to hate whoever the choice is, with Mr. Pawlenty it would be “fake hate.” He is a calm, serious, likable guy. He also has a decent sense of humor, and is not nearly as boring as he is made out to be. He is a former hockey player who likes to be called T-Paw. Until becoming a serious presidential contender, he even had a mullet.

    “The Romney-Pawlenty ticket would be derided as the most charismatically challenged ticket in the history of American politics. In today’s serious times, that is exactly what America needs. It is time for the poets to depart the stage and be replaced with serious adults with Excel spreadsheets and diagonal neckties.

    “Governor Tim Pawlenty is the best choice for Vice President.
    The best choice for Vice President is Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty. He is tall, has good hair, is inoffensive and harmlessly non-descript. He is also a successful two-term executive who got things done despite having a legislature in a Blue State controlled by Democrats.

    “While the left will look for an excuse to hate whoever the choice is, with Mr. Pawlenty it would be “fake hate.” He is a calm, serious, likable guy. He also has a decent sense of humor, and is not nearly as boring as he is made out to be. He is a former hockey player who likes to be called T-Paw. Until becoming a serious presidential contender, he even had a mullet.

    “The Romney-Pawlenty ticket would be derided as the most charismatically challenged ticket in the history of American politics. In today’s serious times, that is exactly what America needs. It is time for the poets to depart the stage and be replaced with serious adults with Excel spreadsheets and diagonal neckties.

    “Governor Tim Pawlenty is the best choice for Vice President.”
    –from the Washington Times.

    (Plus, Pawlenty isn’t a first term, sitting governor/senator/congressman. He is more seasoned in his experience than christie, rubio, ryan and a bunch of others). After having 8 years of experience and a great track record, he is a solid choice without a bunch of “celebrity” fanfare and fireworks. Which is fine by me.

  • Lou G

    oops. sorry for the double paste. that’s seriously annoying.

  • Lou G

    oops. sorry for the double paste. that’s seriously annoying.

  • T. Venditti

    Warren Buffet. I know he supported Obama in 2008; I also know he has supported Republicans (Arnold). Of course, I’m out on a limb (but I’m not smoking anything.)

  • T. Venditti

    Warren Buffet. I know he supported Obama in 2008; I also know he has supported Republicans (Arnold). Of course, I’m out on a limb (but I’m not smoking anything.)

  • Cincinnatus

    Lou G.,

    I think you’re right, as are others in the thread who have made similar suggestions. My supposition is that he will choose either Pawlenty or Portman.

    I only tossed out Condoleeza as an intriguing, not a likely, choice.

    /don’t care either way, as he won’t be getting my vote.

  • Cincinnatus

    Lou G.,

    I think you’re right, as are others in the thread who have made similar suggestions. My supposition is that he will choose either Pawlenty or Portman.

    I only tossed out Condoleeza as an intriguing, not a likely, choice.

    /don’t care either way, as he won’t be getting my vote.

  • Fws

    Hey! How about John McCain! You all (except for Todd) voted for him last go round! He almost won. Maybe buyers regret would kick in for the rest of us? not.

  • Fws

    Hey! How about John McCain! You all (except for Todd) voted for him last go round! He almost won. Maybe buyers regret would kick in for the rest of us? not.

  • Joanne

    The modern purpose of a vice-president is to keep the president from getting assassinated by drawing the hatred of your political enemies away from you. You pick your running mate, presumably the character who would be president if you were to die, someone who is twice as hated by your political opponents as you are.

    The current vp’s job is to keep the president alive by being a much worse person to be president. He goes around acting like a clown delaring he’d do everything the president is doing only more and harder. So, someone bust up the president and then we get somebody much worse. Now you see?

    Romney should pick Newt to be vp cause Romney’s political opponents hate Newt 3 to 4 time more than they hate Romney. Newt will keep Romney alive. Left to his own devices, Newt could do a real good Biden, and like on stearoids, if you know what I mean.

    Can you deny that Cheney drew so much hatred to himself that no one dared even think about doing the president so that Cheney, their most hated opponent, would then become president?

    All you got to do is think about it for 2 seconds and you got the deal.

  • Joanne

    The modern purpose of a vice-president is to keep the president from getting assassinated by drawing the hatred of your political enemies away from you. You pick your running mate, presumably the character who would be president if you were to die, someone who is twice as hated by your political opponents as you are.

    The current vp’s job is to keep the president alive by being a much worse person to be president. He goes around acting like a clown delaring he’d do everything the president is doing only more and harder. So, someone bust up the president and then we get somebody much worse. Now you see?

    Romney should pick Newt to be vp cause Romney’s political opponents hate Newt 3 to 4 time more than they hate Romney. Newt will keep Romney alive. Left to his own devices, Newt could do a real good Biden, and like on stearoids, if you know what I mean.

    Can you deny that Cheney drew so much hatred to himself that no one dared even think about doing the president so that Cheney, their most hated opponent, would then become president?

    All you got to do is think about it for 2 seconds and you got the deal.

  • Joanne

    A quick after-thought: You’d also want to avoid picking Brutus as your running mate, as in Mr. and Mrs. Brutus Clinton, or Mr. and Mrs. Brutus LBJ. Your running mate must be your political ally and wants you to live more than your opponents want you to die.

    And, your running mate must be totally unsuited for the presidency and self-aware of it, so that they enjoy being the almost president, but would hate to be the actual president.

    There are so many good office holders out there now. In my lifetime, I don’t believe that Republicans have had so many genuinly good people in office. It’s an embarrassment of riches.

    But, the job of Vice-president is peculiar and you really want an annoying person there that nobody can stand and who will gladly let us put a bull’s eye target on his back. Somebody who jumps in when he sees a good dog fight.

  • Joanne

    A quick after-thought: You’d also want to avoid picking Brutus as your running mate, as in Mr. and Mrs. Brutus Clinton, or Mr. and Mrs. Brutus LBJ. Your running mate must be your political ally and wants you to live more than your opponents want you to die.

    And, your running mate must be totally unsuited for the presidency and self-aware of it, so that they enjoy being the almost president, but would hate to be the actual president.

    There are so many good office holders out there now. In my lifetime, I don’t believe that Republicans have had so many genuinly good people in office. It’s an embarrassment of riches.

    But, the job of Vice-president is peculiar and you really want an annoying person there that nobody can stand and who will gladly let us put a bull’s eye target on his back. Somebody who jumps in when he sees a good dog fight.

  • Joanne

    I’d put Condi Rice at Ambassador to the U.N. in a heartbeat, if only she’d have the job she could really break some heads there. Then I’d showcase her at the Whitehouse by teaming her up with famous classical musicians, either to play the piano in accompaniment, or to heartily introduce them. Classy and politically astute, we could really use her talents in so many ways.

  • Joanne

    I’d put Condi Rice at Ambassador to the U.N. in a heartbeat, if only she’d have the job she could really break some heads there. Then I’d showcase her at the Whitehouse by teaming her up with famous classical musicians, either to play the piano in accompaniment, or to heartily introduce them. Classy and politically astute, we could really use her talents in so many ways.

  • Grace

    That’s just what we need as a diplomat, Condi at the UN, and a part time pianist for the WH music room, introducing whomever.

  • Grace

    That’s just what we need as a diplomat, Condi at the UN, and a part time pianist for the WH music room, introducing whomever.

  • helen

    tODD @ 8 ” she can’t be a terrible vice presidential candidate every election, right?”

    Yes, she can.

  • helen

    tODD @ 8 ” she can’t be a terrible vice presidential candidate every election, right?”

    Yes, she can.

  • Joanne

    Reference librarians are used to look up and verify quotes.

    President Harrison’s use of the apocraphal Luther quote was embarrassing and a tad painful knowing that the whole nation was listening and that the LC-MS has good, very good librarians available to the synod president’s beck and call right there in St. Louis. If there is a librarian at the International Center, he or she or they were mortified to hear the synod president use a bad quote and wondered why he didn’t ask for their help.

    A short story from an old lady librarian (retired): The federal government built a beautiful new wetlands research building with two wings of research labs, one wing for maping and technology, and a large library with 2 librarians, one who had actually worked in biology labs before becoming a special librarian.

    There was a special location up near the front door for a quote to be chisseled into a large panel of fine wood. The research center made the choice of a quote a center-wide effort. Thus we found that most people preferred a quote from Chief Seattle about being good to nature. Then the director, wanting to do the proper cya, asked his librarians to verify the quote. This was in 1992; we had e-mail; and kermit; but no Internet browser software yet.

    We could find no record of the quote in our library nor at the local University Library. We thought it was a popular quote, so we were surprised that we didn’t find it right away. So we telephoned the reference desk at the Seattle Public Library. They must know, and indeed they did. They kept a special file on Chief Seattle quotes just for this kind of information request.

    Chief Seattle did say some arcane things, mostly complaining about treatment from federal agents, but there are no records of Chief Seattle saying anything remotely friendly about the environment. But, they did know where the apocraphal quote originated.

    It seems that back in the 60s or 70s some environmental enthusiasts had wanted to make a movie with many American Aborigines in it talking about respecting the land and protecting it from over-exploitation. They wrote a script for it sometimes using good quotes and sometimes just writing a script for what someone like Chief Seattle should have said, in their opinion. The quote could be found in this movie script written within the last 20 years and by a hippie type guy from the mid-west. We got his name.

    We had a nice conversation with the librarians and hung up with a chuckle. I wrote up the report to establish the quote as fictitious and not usable in this particular situation, unless we wanted to quote the actual screenwriter, because it was a great quote for the type of things we did there. We disected a duck a day. We mucked about in the marshes.

    The Director had the original quote chisseled into the fine wood by the front door and ascribed it to Chief Seattle with full knowledge that it was fake.

    Motto: You can lead an administrator to information, but you can’t make him use it.

  • Joanne

    Reference librarians are used to look up and verify quotes.

    President Harrison’s use of the apocraphal Luther quote was embarrassing and a tad painful knowing that the whole nation was listening and that the LC-MS has good, very good librarians available to the synod president’s beck and call right there in St. Louis. If there is a librarian at the International Center, he or she or they were mortified to hear the synod president use a bad quote and wondered why he didn’t ask for their help.

    A short story from an old lady librarian (retired): The federal government built a beautiful new wetlands research building with two wings of research labs, one wing for maping and technology, and a large library with 2 librarians, one who had actually worked in biology labs before becoming a special librarian.

    There was a special location up near the front door for a quote to be chisseled into a large panel of fine wood. The research center made the choice of a quote a center-wide effort. Thus we found that most people preferred a quote from Chief Seattle about being good to nature. Then the director, wanting to do the proper cya, asked his librarians to verify the quote. This was in 1992; we had e-mail; and kermit; but no Internet browser software yet.

    We could find no record of the quote in our library nor at the local University Library. We thought it was a popular quote, so we were surprised that we didn’t find it right away. So we telephoned the reference desk at the Seattle Public Library. They must know, and indeed they did. They kept a special file on Chief Seattle quotes just for this kind of information request.

    Chief Seattle did say some arcane things, mostly complaining about treatment from federal agents, but there are no records of Chief Seattle saying anything remotely friendly about the environment. But, they did know where the apocraphal quote originated.

    It seems that back in the 60s or 70s some environmental enthusiasts had wanted to make a movie with many American Aborigines in it talking about respecting the land and protecting it from over-exploitation. They wrote a script for it sometimes using good quotes and sometimes just writing a script for what someone like Chief Seattle should have said, in their opinion. The quote could be found in this movie script written within the last 20 years and by a hippie type guy from the mid-west. We got his name.

    We had a nice conversation with the librarians and hung up with a chuckle. I wrote up the report to establish the quote as fictitious and not usable in this particular situation, unless we wanted to quote the actual screenwriter, because it was a great quote for the type of things we did there. We disected a duck a day. We mucked about in the marshes.

    The Director had the original quote chisseled into the fine wood by the front door and ascribed it to Chief Seattle with full knowledge that it was fake.

    Motto: You can lead an administrator to information, but you can’t make him use it.

  • Grace

    Joanne,

    If in fact the quote: “‘I’d rather have a smart Turk than a stupid Christian governing me.” – - is FALSE

    Why would countless Lutherans use the quote? Including Dr. Harrison, and many others. The reason it becomes important is:

    How many other Luther quotes, ideas, and so called truth have been mishandled, untrue, and completely false? Martin Luther had a lot say on many issues – – - have you checked all of these out, or is this the one that was checked out, because someone knew better?

    YOU WROTE:

    “President Harrison’s use of the apocraphal Luther quote was embarrassing and a tad painful knowing that the whole nation was listening and that the LC-MS has good, very good librarians available to the synod president’s beck and call right there in St. Louis.”

    Joanne, I doubt very much that :the whole nation was listening” That’s a BIG exaggeration.

  • Grace

    Joanne,

    If in fact the quote: “‘I’d rather have a smart Turk than a stupid Christian governing me.” – - is FALSE

    Why would countless Lutherans use the quote? Including Dr. Harrison, and many others. The reason it becomes important is:

    How many other Luther quotes, ideas, and so called truth have been mishandled, untrue, and completely false? Martin Luther had a lot say on many issues – – - have you checked all of these out, or is this the one that was checked out, because someone knew better?

    YOU WROTE:

    “President Harrison’s use of the apocraphal Luther quote was embarrassing and a tad painful knowing that the whole nation was listening and that the LC-MS has good, very good librarians available to the synod president’s beck and call right there in St. Louis.”

    Joanne, I doubt very much that :the whole nation was listening” That’s a BIG exaggeration.

  • Grace

    I wrote @ 46:

    “Joanne, I doubt very much that :the whole nation was listening” That’s a BIG exaggeration.”

    The blockquote, was not cut off after Joanne’s comment, which was:

    ““President Harrison’s use of the apocraphal Luther quote was embarrassing and a tad painful knowing that the whole nation was listening and that the LC-MS has good, very good librarians available to the synod president’s beck and call right there in St. Louis.”

  • Grace

    I wrote @ 46:

    “Joanne, I doubt very much that :the whole nation was listening” That’s a BIG exaggeration.”

    The blockquote, was not cut off after Joanne’s comment, which was:

    ““President Harrison’s use of the apocraphal Luther quote was embarrassing and a tad painful knowing that the whole nation was listening and that the LC-MS has good, very good librarians available to the synod president’s beck and call right there in St. Louis.”

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace asked (@46):

    How many other Luther quotes, ideas, and so called truth have been mishandled, untrue, and completely false?

    Well, you know, there was that one Luther ‘quote’ that you repeatedly pasted into comments on this blog … until the man who botched the “quote” himself showed up on this blog and finally admitted he’d mangled it.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Grace asked (@46):

    How many other Luther quotes, ideas, and so called truth have been mishandled, untrue, and completely false?

    Well, you know, there was that one Luther ‘quote’ that you repeatedly pasted into comments on this blog … until the man who botched the “quote” himself showed up on this blog and finally admitted he’d mangled it.

  • Grace

    tODD @ 48

    This was discussed at length back in October.

    Get some sleep, it’s almost Sunday.

  • Grace

    tODD @ 48

    This was discussed at length back in October.

    Get some sleep, it’s almost Sunday.

  • Grace

    If anyone is interested, the thread tODD is referring to can be found on this LINK:

    http://www.geneveith.com/2011/09/28/the-pope-on-luther-4/#comment-128194

  • Grace

    If anyone is interested, the thread tODD is referring to can be found on this LINK:

    http://www.geneveith.com/2011/09/28/the-pope-on-luther-4/#comment-128194

  • Michael B.

    @Grace

    It’s not the first time people have attributed a quote incorrectly. I’m thinking of all the Bible “verses” that people believe are in the Bible somewhere:
    “God helps them who help themselves”
    “Jesus loves all the little children”
    “God gives us free will”

    So on and so forth.

  • Michael B.

    @Grace

    It’s not the first time people have attributed a quote incorrectly. I’m thinking of all the Bible “verses” that people believe are in the Bible somewhere:
    “God helps them who help themselves”
    “Jesus loves all the little children”
    “God gives us free will”

    So on and so forth.

  • lws

    The Appointment of Leaders.

    Deuteronomy 1:13 – “Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you.” (NIV)

    13. Choose wise men.

    . . . . “The question has been properly raised whether a prince is better if he is good and imprudent or prudent yet also evil. Here Moses certainly demands both. Nevertheless, if one cannot have both, it is better for him to be prudent and not good than good and not prudent; for the good man would actually rule nothing but would be ruled only by others, and at that only by the worst people. Even if the prudent man harms good people, yet at the same time he governs the evil ones, which is the most necessary and suitable thing for the world, since the world is nothing else than a crowd of evil people. An here Moses seems to approve of this opinion, since he deals first with the wisdom of the princes, and afterwards with their goodness.” Luther’s Works, Vol. 9, p.19.

  • lws

    The Appointment of Leaders.

    Deuteronomy 1:13 – “Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you.” (NIV)

    13. Choose wise men.

    . . . . “The question has been properly raised whether a prince is better if he is good and imprudent or prudent yet also evil. Here Moses certainly demands both. Nevertheless, if one cannot have both, it is better for him to be prudent and not good than good and not prudent; for the good man would actually rule nothing but would be ruled only by others, and at that only by the worst people. Even if the prudent man harms good people, yet at the same time he governs the evil ones, which is the most necessary and suitable thing for the world, since the world is nothing else than a crowd of evil people. An here Moses seems to approve of this opinion, since he deals first with the wisdom of the princes, and afterwards with their goodness.” Luther’s Works, Vol. 9, p.19.

  • fwsf

    lws @ 52

    excellent. This applies also to leaders in the Church.

    The sedaes or seat of this doctrine is found in the Large catechism on the 4th commandment. There we learn that parents, pastors and government rulers are all sanctioned in their authority, over us! in the same way.

    And we are to respect, honor, and obey them even if they are harsh or strange or embarrassing to us. To do that is to honor God, since he is the one we are to believe has set them over us.

    Our Old Adam hates this. Think IRS here and OSHA and well, obama or whatever other ruler we don’t care for for whatever reason. we are to honor love and respect them as we are to do also with our parents.

  • fwsf

    lws @ 52

    excellent. This applies also to leaders in the Church.

    The sedaes or seat of this doctrine is found in the Large catechism on the 4th commandment. There we learn that parents, pastors and government rulers are all sanctioned in their authority, over us! in the same way.

    And we are to respect, honor, and obey them even if they are harsh or strange or embarrassing to us. To do that is to honor God, since he is the one we are to believe has set them over us.

    Our Old Adam hates this. Think IRS here and OSHA and well, obama or whatever other ruler we don’t care for for whatever reason. we are to honor love and respect them as we are to do also with our parents.

  • Grace

    We as Believers are accountable to God AMIGHTY. God has not told us to “respect, honor, and obey” those who demand, request, or threaten us when ‘evil is the result.

    The LORD does not call us to be non operational, unresponsive, and submissive to EVIL. Instead, Christ calls us to let our light shine before all men “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven” Matthew 5:16

    Being submissive to evil is not Biblical. Instead we are to:

    11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6

    WIMPY so called Christians, who would acquiesce to laws that are against the LORD are not taking Scripture seriously. Most often they are protecting their own HIDES.

    Paul appealed to Caesar – For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar. For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar. Acts 25:11

    Paul a Roman citizen, who preached the gospel took advantage of the law, he took advantage of the law to defend himself. Just as Paul took advantage of the law, so can we as Believers. When our leaders, (who have been voted into office) rule over us in an ungodly manner, we have every right to oppose their evil ways, within legal means.

    Jesus overturned the tables in the Temple, of the evil doers, HE was not mild or meek – those tables rolled when Christ saw what they were doing.

  • Grace

    We as Believers are accountable to God AMIGHTY. God has not told us to “respect, honor, and obey” those who demand, request, or threaten us when ‘evil is the result.

    The LORD does not call us to be non operational, unresponsive, and submissive to EVIL. Instead, Christ calls us to let our light shine before all men “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven” Matthew 5:16

    Being submissive to evil is not Biblical. Instead we are to:

    11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6

    WIMPY so called Christians, who would acquiesce to laws that are against the LORD are not taking Scripture seriously. Most often they are protecting their own HIDES.

    Paul appealed to Caesar – For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar. For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar. Acts 25:11

    Paul a Roman citizen, who preached the gospel took advantage of the law, he took advantage of the law to defend himself. Just as Paul took advantage of the law, so can we as Believers. When our leaders, (who have been voted into office) rule over us in an ungodly manner, we have every right to oppose their evil ways, within legal means.

    Jesus overturned the tables in the Temple, of the evil doers, HE was not mild or meek – those tables rolled when Christ saw what they were doing.

  • Grace

    I add this portion to the ones above @54

    14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

    15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

    16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

    17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

    - Don’t forget your SWORD, it is the Word of God –

    18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

    19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
    Ephesians 6

  • Grace

    I add this portion to the ones above @54

    14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

    15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

    16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

    17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

    - Don’t forget your SWORD, it is the Word of God –

    18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

    19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
    Ephesians 6

  • Grace

    The excuse that one can obey evil, and feel justified, is foolish. That excuse has been used in the past.

  • Grace

    The excuse that one can obey evil, and feel justified, is foolish. That excuse has been used in the past.

  • fwsf

    grace @ 54

    Where does Christ or the Apostles say anything about evil when they tell us to obey the powers that be:

    obey the government for they bear the sword not in vain.
    wives obey your husbands.
    children obey your parents
    hearers obey your pastors.

    Why did you hear that and immediately jump to what we are supposed to do if they ask us to do something evil?

  • fwsf

    grace @ 54

    Where does Christ or the Apostles say anything about evil when they tell us to obey the powers that be:

    obey the government for they bear the sword not in vain.
    wives obey your husbands.
    children obey your parents
    hearers obey your pastors.

    Why did you hear that and immediately jump to what we are supposed to do if they ask us to do something evil?

  • fwsf

    grace @ 56 and earlier

    so the Bible never says we are to obey the government and parents and others in authority?

  • fwsf

    grace @ 56 and earlier

    so the Bible never says we are to obey the government and parents and others in authority?

  • Grace

    When anyone demands that we do evil ie; abort children, perform abortions, perform same sex marriage, join a vile military system, such as the case in Germany to round up Jews, take their property, and then throw them in camps, and gas them – - NO, I do not believe according to Ephesians 6, we are to OBEY such evil rulers.

    Children should not obey parents when they told to do evil, such as steal, or be used in a sexual way.

    Wives are NOT to obey men who abuse them, or the children, or who demand they do unlawful deeds.

    If one takes that to the extreme, all evil can be made right – the passage of Scripture is an EXCUSE –

    You’ve made a standard for sin, as though wicked rulers demanding we as Believers to do their bidding – that is not what the passage means, however it comes in handy, when you want a loop-hole for being a COWARD!

    There are, and have been in the past multitudes of COWARDS!

  • Grace

    When anyone demands that we do evil ie; abort children, perform abortions, perform same sex marriage, join a vile military system, such as the case in Germany to round up Jews, take their property, and then throw them in camps, and gas them – - NO, I do not believe according to Ephesians 6, we are to OBEY such evil rulers.

    Children should not obey parents when they told to do evil, such as steal, or be used in a sexual way.

    Wives are NOT to obey men who abuse them, or the children, or who demand they do unlawful deeds.

    If one takes that to the extreme, all evil can be made right – the passage of Scripture is an EXCUSE –

    You’ve made a standard for sin, as though wicked rulers demanding we as Believers to do their bidding – that is not what the passage means, however it comes in handy, when you want a loop-hole for being a COWARD!

    There are, and have been in the past multitudes of COWARDS!

  • fws

    grace @ 59

    You did not answer my question did you? I didn’t ask if the bible says we are to resist evil. Of course we are.

    My question is this :

    Do you say that the Bible does not anywhere command us to obey the government, parents and others God has placed in authority?

  • fws

    grace @ 59

    You did not answer my question did you? I didn’t ask if the bible says we are to resist evil. Of course we are.

    My question is this :

    Do you say that the Bible does not anywhere command us to obey the government, parents and others God has placed in authority?

  • Grace

    Go to Ephesians 6. There you will find the answer, just as I posted it earlier.

    11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6

    READ the REST

  • Grace

    Go to Ephesians 6. There you will find the answer, just as I posted it earlier.

    11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6

    READ the REST

  • Grace

    34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

    35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

    36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

    37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
    Matthew 10

  • Grace

    34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

    35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

    36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

    37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
    Matthew 10

  • Grace

    There are many children who have defied their parents, when they were told they could not read the Bible – but the child/children did so anyway – The same goes for a husband, making the same demands upon his wife. No one is required to follow evil.

  • Grace

    There are many children who have defied their parents, when they were told they could not read the Bible – but the child/children did so anyway – The same goes for a husband, making the same demands upon his wife. No one is required to follow evil.

  • Grace

    I don’t care what you asked fws, I answered your question EXACTLY the way in which your question needed to be answered – just as I always do.

  • Grace

    I don’t care what you asked fws, I answered your question EXACTLY the way in which your question needed to be answered – just as I always do.

  • fws

    grace @ 60′s

    You STILL did not answer my question:

    Do you say that the Bible does not anywhere command us to obey the government, parents and others God has placed in authority?

  • fws

    grace @ 60′s

    You STILL did not answer my question:

    Do you say that the Bible does not anywhere command us to obey the government, parents and others God has placed in authority?

  • fws

    Grace,

    It is looking like you dont know how to read. I am SURE you can read Grace. Just less sure than before…

    you seem really confused as to what my simple question asked . It was not a trick question. It is a very very grammatically simple question. a third grader would understand it.

  • fws

    Grace,

    It is looking like you dont know how to read. I am SURE you can read Grace. Just less sure than before…

    you seem really confused as to what my simple question asked . It was not a trick question. It is a very very grammatically simple question. a third grader would understand it.

  • Grace

    I have answered you fws – using Scripture.

    Enough said!

  • Grace

    I have answered you fws – using Scripture.

    Enough said!

  • Grace

    Everything is simple to you – that is when you play DODGE. Remember Romans 1?

  • Grace

    Everything is simple to you – that is when you play DODGE. Remember Romans 1?

  • fws

    grace

    the question you answered was whether or not we should obey authorities when they tell us to do evil.

    we agree that the answer to THAT question is no.

    But that is not the question I asked.

    Stop being weird Grace.

  • fws

    grace

    the question you answered was whether or not we should obey authorities when they tell us to do evil.

    we agree that the answer to THAT question is no.

    But that is not the question I asked.

    Stop being weird Grace.

  • fws

    Grace ,

    You “use” Scriptures like men “use ” prostitutes.

    But you are more shameful than those men who use prostitutes. you are using Holy Scripture to do evil.
    You have zero shame.
    And you have zero sense that you have any real sin to repent of .

    Repent Grace before God has to punish you to make you repent.

  • fws

    Grace ,

    You “use” Scriptures like men “use ” prostitutes.

    But you are more shameful than those men who use prostitutes. you are using Holy Scripture to do evil.
    You have zero shame.
    And you have zero sense that you have any real sin to repent of .

    Repent Grace before God has to punish you to make you repent.

  • fws

    why do you post on this site?
    You sense that you are missing something important dont you?

    His name is Jesus. And He wants you to have his forgiveness for all the sins you have committed today against others Grace.

  • fws

    why do you post on this site?
    You sense that you are missing something important dont you?

    His name is Jesus. And He wants you to have his forgiveness for all the sins you have committed today against others Grace.

  • Grace

    fws POST 70

    “You “use” Scriptures like men “use ” prostitutes.

    But you are more shameful than those men who use prostitutes. you are using Holy Scripture to do evil.

    That is the vilest comment anyone has ever uttered to me, or posted on a blog. Obviously your lifestyle choices have affected your sense of reason and good manners!

  • Grace

    fws POST 70

    “You “use” Scriptures like men “use ” prostitutes.

    But you are more shameful than those men who use prostitutes. you are using Holy Scripture to do evil.

    That is the vilest comment anyone has ever uttered to me, or posted on a blog. Obviously your lifestyle choices have affected your sense of reason and good manners!

  • fws

    Grace @ 72

    Your sins are vile in the sight of God Grace.
    I am sorry that you do not see that.

    May God have mercy on you to see the sins you committed today against others along with any good you have done, as the vile moral equivalent of a used tampon that Isaiah says they are.

  • fws

    Grace @ 72

    Your sins are vile in the sight of God Grace.
    I am sorry that you do not see that.

    May God have mercy on you to see the sins you committed today against others along with any good you have done, as the vile moral equivalent of a used tampon that Isaiah says they are.

  • fws

    All our righteousness as believers are as filthy menstrual rags”
    Isaiah

    The soul that sins, it shall die.
    be perfect for I the Lord your God am perfect. Therefore walk perfectly before me.
    He who says he is without sin is a liar and the truth is not in him.
    Your sins are as crimson.
    All have sinned and fallen short
    there is not one who seeks me no not one.

    These all apply to you Grace. Today. These passage all describe sinful you.

    Accept God’s judgement of your miserable sinful disgusting life and repent and turn to the Works of Jesus that are alone able to cover up the stench in God’s nostrils that are all you have ever done in your life Grace.

  • fws

    All our righteousness as believers are as filthy menstrual rags”
    Isaiah

    The soul that sins, it shall die.
    be perfect for I the Lord your God am perfect. Therefore walk perfectly before me.
    He who says he is without sin is a liar and the truth is not in him.
    Your sins are as crimson.
    All have sinned and fallen short
    there is not one who seeks me no not one.

    These all apply to you Grace. Today. These passage all describe sinful you.

    Accept God’s judgement of your miserable sinful disgusting life and repent and turn to the Works of Jesus that are alone able to cover up the stench in God’s nostrils that are all you have ever done in your life Grace.

  • fws

    Trust alone that Jesus Works cover your sin. They do!

    And accept God’s judgement about ALL you have ever done in your sinfilled life Grace. Accept God’s judgement of all your works.

    Trust that all those putrid rotting stinking pond scum disgusting works are hidden in the Works of Another. You are a liar, but God cannot lie. He has promised that by hiding all you have done against God and others in the Works of Jesus that you will escape his wrath that is soon coming.

  • fws

    Trust alone that Jesus Works cover your sin. They do!

    And accept God’s judgement about ALL you have ever done in your sinfilled life Grace. Accept God’s judgement of all your works.

    Trust that all those putrid rotting stinking pond scum disgusting works are hidden in the Works of Another. You are a liar, but God cannot lie. He has promised that by hiding all you have done against God and others in the Works of Jesus that you will escape his wrath that is soon coming.

  • fws

    Grace there is nothing at all for you to do.

    Just look to Jesus dead on the Cross and trust that all that you have ever done in your entire life is nailed right there to that cross.

    Christ became , literally , sin for us. Christ became the sinner. for your sins and mine Grace. So your sins all belong to Jesus now! He is the one bearing them.

  • fws

    Grace there is nothing at all for you to do.

    Just look to Jesus dead on the Cross and trust that all that you have ever done in your entire life is nailed right there to that cross.

    Christ became , literally , sin for us. Christ became the sinner. for your sins and mine Grace. So your sins all belong to Jesus now! He is the one bearing them.

  • fws

    Nothing left to do Grace.

    imagine Christ dead on the cross. Your sins are ALL there Grace!
    Today you shall be in paradise.

    Grace TODAY all you have ever done is hidden in the Works of Another. Trust that that is a fact that was accomplished for you before you were able to do anything at all!

  • fws

    Nothing left to do Grace.

    imagine Christ dead on the cross. Your sins are ALL there Grace!
    Today you shall be in paradise.

    Grace TODAY all you have ever done is hidden in the Works of Another. Trust that that is a fact that was accomplished for you before you were able to do anything at all!

  • fws

    May God strenthen and keep you in faith in the Works of Another covering all that you have ever done.
    And I pray that I also remain firm in that trust alone in the Works of Jesus as I live my life, terrified at the sins I see myself do daily with unkind words to others, hurtful things, hurtful thoughts….

  • fws

    May God strenthen and keep you in faith in the Works of Another covering all that you have ever done.
    And I pray that I also remain firm in that trust alone in the Works of Jesus as I live my life, terrified at the sins I see myself do daily with unkind words to others, hurtful things, hurtful thoughts….

  • http://carolmsblog.blogspot.com/ C-Christian Soldier

    TREY GOWDY – R-SC a TRUTH Teller-
    http://carolmsblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/congressman-trey-gowdy-r-sc-tells-truth.html

    and an R with a spine!
    C-CS

  • http://carolmsblog.blogspot.com/ C-Christian Soldier

    TREY GOWDY – R-SC a TRUTH Teller-
    http://carolmsblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/congressman-trey-gowdy-r-sc-tells-truth.html

    and an R with a spine!
    C-CS

  • Lou

    Upon further consideration, I’m going to have to go with Bobby Jindal. Sure, Pawlenty or Portman would do just fine, but I think Jindal gives the ticket just the right kind of jingle. The other two are Romney clones. Jindal is different enough and interesting enough to attract certain ppl who might be fence straddling the fence.

  • Lou

    Upon further consideration, I’m going to have to go with Bobby Jindal. Sure, Pawlenty or Portman would do just fine, but I think Jindal gives the ticket just the right kind of jingle. The other two are Romney clones. Jindal is different enough and interesting enough to attract certain ppl who might be fence straddling the fence.

  • Grace

    Lou @80

    Romney’s Wife Says Woman Being Eyed For Ticket
    July 5, 2012 7:36 AM

    WASHINGTON (AP) — “Mitt Romney’s wife says her husband is thinking about picking a woman to be on his ticket this fall.

    Ann Romney says in an interview, “We’ve been looking at that and I love that option as well.”

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/07/05/romneys-wife-says-woman-being-eyed-for-ticket/

    Sounds like Ann is going to help Mitt choose the VP. Sounds like Michelle four years ago, when asked if Hillary would be chosen.

  • Grace

    Lou @80

    Romney’s Wife Says Woman Being Eyed For Ticket
    July 5, 2012 7:36 AM

    WASHINGTON (AP) — “Mitt Romney’s wife says her husband is thinking about picking a woman to be on his ticket this fall.

    Ann Romney says in an interview, “We’ve been looking at that and I love that option as well.”

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/07/05/romneys-wife-says-woman-being-eyed-for-ticket/

    Sounds like Ann is going to help Mitt choose the VP. Sounds like Michelle four years ago, when asked if Hillary would be chosen.

  • Cincinnatus

    Lou@80: Jindal would be an interesting choice, but I think he’s been more or less blacklisted–or at least consigned to the B-list–since his lackluster performance in responding to Obama’s SOTU address a few years ago. I’m also not sure that his handling of the BP spill would get rave reviews (even if he did a good job).

    Right now, the Romney camp is whispering that a woman might be chosen. They might just be attempting to garner attention, though. And I can’t think of many women at the moment who offer the right balance of conservative credibility, electoral votes, and, most importantly given 2008, competence. Condoleeza Rice has specifically turned Romney down, apparently. Martinez in New Mexico has as well. Nikki Haley doesn’t offer any electoral votes he wouldn’t get anyway.

    Oh geez, don’t go for Michelle Bachmann, Romney…

  • Cincinnatus

    Lou@80: Jindal would be an interesting choice, but I think he’s been more or less blacklisted–or at least consigned to the B-list–since his lackluster performance in responding to Obama’s SOTU address a few years ago. I’m also not sure that his handling of the BP spill would get rave reviews (even if he did a good job).

    Right now, the Romney camp is whispering that a woman might be chosen. They might just be attempting to garner attention, though. And I can’t think of many women at the moment who offer the right balance of conservative credibility, electoral votes, and, most importantly given 2008, competence. Condoleeza Rice has specifically turned Romney down, apparently. Martinez in New Mexico has as well. Nikki Haley doesn’t offer any electoral votes he wouldn’t get anyway.

    Oh geez, don’t go for Michelle Bachmann, Romney…

  • Grace

    If Romney goes for Bachmann, he’s toast!

  • Grace

    If Romney goes for Bachmann, he’s toast!


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X