Damnatio memoriae

I salute Steven L. Jones, a student at Houston Baptist University, for recalling another of those useful Latin phrases.  This one has application from George Orwell’s “memory hole” in 1984 to the NCAA sanctions against Penn State:

Question: What do Joe Paterno and the Roman Emperor Nero have in common?

Answer: damnatio memoriae

Damnatio Memoriae (Latin for “the condemnation of memory”) is the act of trying to erase a person from history. In the Roman world, this meant erasing the condemned man’s name from inscriptions, removing coins with his image from circulation, or defacing images and statues of him.

As you might imagine such an endeavor is extremely difficult to accomplish. Even in an age less bombarded by media than ours, it could be difficult to track down and remove every single mention of a person. People who generate great anger are normally people who have also left a lasting and far-reaching mark.

But more than being difficult, is it right?

via JoePa Meets Nero « Reflection and Choice.

How would you answer that question?

 

HT:  Micah Mattix

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • http://www.cyberbrethren.com Rev. Paul T. McCain

    As you know, I applaud the NCAA for taking such extreme measures. They are the only kind of measures that will make such an impression that no other institution will ever consider covering up such behavior again.

    They hit a university’s football right where it lives:

    Money
    Ego

  • http://www.cyberbrethren.com Rev. Paul T. McCain

    As you know, I applaud the NCAA for taking such extreme measures. They are the only kind of measures that will make such an impression that no other institution will ever consider covering up such behavior again.

    They hit a university’s football right where it lives:

    Money
    Ego

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Rather than try to do the impossible, better to follow the example of more accurate historical reminiscence we get from the Bible where the record of evil Kings is left intact along with the record of their downfall and the record of humiliation and suffering of all those who followed them. A five year suspension from all football related activities would humiliate Penn and cause significant problems to all those employed by the university’s football program.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Rather than try to do the impossible, better to follow the example of more accurate historical reminiscence we get from the Bible where the record of evil Kings is left intact along with the record of their downfall and the record of humiliation and suffering of all those who followed them. A five year suspension from all football related activities would humiliate Penn and cause significant problems to all those employed by the university’s football program.

  • formerly just steve

    King David, anyone? Now, Joe Paterno was no king, but neither was he a murderer. He was a man with numerous legitimate accomplishments and legitimate failings. Must we forget one to remember the other? Or must we forget them both? Don’t we have the capacity to understand that one man can be capable of both great heights and great lows? And very often, the greater the height the deeper the low.

    It strikes me that the failures in understanding human nature that lead people to canonize Paterno unduly are the same failures that lead people to want to erase the memory of his achievements completely. He is either everything or nothing at all.

  • formerly just steve

    King David, anyone? Now, Joe Paterno was no king, but neither was he a murderer. He was a man with numerous legitimate accomplishments and legitimate failings. Must we forget one to remember the other? Or must we forget them both? Don’t we have the capacity to understand that one man can be capable of both great heights and great lows? And very often, the greater the height the deeper the low.

    It strikes me that the failures in understanding human nature that lead people to canonize Paterno unduly are the same failures that lead people to want to erase the memory of his achievements completely. He is either everything or nothing at all.

  • http://candaceweddle.wordpress.com/ Candace Weddle

    The great irony of damnatio memoriae, both in the ancient world and the modern, is that the very act of attempting to remove someone from the historical record leaves indelible traces. The Romans certainly recognized the futility of the stated purpose of a damnatio. No one could be completely abolished from history, or even from the contemporary landscape, but the act of destroying the images and name of a person – pulling down their statues and hurling them into the Tiber, digging the eyes out of their images, cutting (often clumsily) their names out of inscriptions – was cathartic and spoke volumes. That is also the point of the “damnatio” of Paterno – to remember by very specifically and vocally declaring that we will forget.

  • http://candaceweddle.wordpress.com/ Candace Weddle

    The great irony of damnatio memoriae, both in the ancient world and the modern, is that the very act of attempting to remove someone from the historical record leaves indelible traces. The Romans certainly recognized the futility of the stated purpose of a damnatio. No one could be completely abolished from history, or even from the contemporary landscape, but the act of destroying the images and name of a person – pulling down their statues and hurling them into the Tiber, digging the eyes out of their images, cutting (often clumsily) their names out of inscriptions – was cathartic and spoke volumes. That is also the point of the “damnatio” of Paterno – to remember by very specifically and vocally declaring that we will forget.

  • #4 Kitty

    He excelled at winning a silly sport at the expense of children being raped. Who would want to be remembered for such “accomplishments”?

  • #4 Kitty

    He excelled at winning a silly sport at the expense of children being raped. Who would want to be remembered for such “accomplishments”?

  • #4 Kitty

    Here’s a re-enactment of his final days.

  • #4 Kitty

    Here’s a re-enactment of his final days.

  • Dan Kempin

    I do not applaud the actions of the NCAA. They are ridiculous and hypocritical. The Penn State program is being vilified as a convenient way to draw attention from all the other college programs that continue to thrive. The elements of the football program that are driven from Penn State will find a home elsewhere.

    I DO have problems–big problems–with college sports. But this action accomplishes nothing.

    (Not to mention the totally ludicrous notion of “vacating” wins. It is foolish, arrogant, and dangerous to intentionally revise history. Which, I suppose, brings this comment somewhere in the vicinity of the topic.)

  • Dan Kempin

    I do not applaud the actions of the NCAA. They are ridiculous and hypocritical. The Penn State program is being vilified as a convenient way to draw attention from all the other college programs that continue to thrive. The elements of the football program that are driven from Penn State will find a home elsewhere.

    I DO have problems–big problems–with college sports. But this action accomplishes nothing.

    (Not to mention the totally ludicrous notion of “vacating” wins. It is foolish, arrogant, and dangerous to intentionally revise history. Which, I suppose, brings this comment somewhere in the vicinity of the topic.)

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    Damnatio Memoriae is foolish. Better to remember them and keep them as an example of foolishness than to try to pretend they never existed.

    BTW, one good thing that will come of this and other scandals like the Ohio one is that a LOT of universities will start putting integrity over wins. You can bet that a great many coaches are combing over things in their organizations to make sure all is well.

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    Damnatio Memoriae is foolish. Better to remember them and keep them as an example of foolishness than to try to pretend they never existed.

    BTW, one good thing that will come of this and other scandals like the Ohio one is that a LOT of universities will start putting integrity over wins. You can bet that a great many coaches are combing over things in their organizations to make sure all is well.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    Pulling down statues of disgraced persons might be an appropriate way of getting a point across. But vacating wins? Declaring by fiat that what actually happened did not happen?

    Isn’t that akin to saying that we have always been at war with Eastasia?

  • http://www.facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    Pulling down statues of disgraced persons might be an appropriate way of getting a point across. But vacating wins? Declaring by fiat that what actually happened did not happen?

    Isn’t that akin to saying that we have always been at war with Eastasia?

  • David M

    No, I don’t think it’s wise to erase evil from our memory. We should never lose sight of how despecable a human being can be. Instead of taking the statue down, they should have melted it in place and placed a plaque in front of the resulting bronze blob which read “Never Forget”.

  • David M

    No, I don’t think it’s wise to erase evil from our memory. We should never lose sight of how despecable a human being can be. Instead of taking the statue down, they should have melted it in place and placed a plaque in front of the resulting bronze blob which read “Never Forget”.

  • Dan Kempin

    J Dean, #8,

    “. . . a LOT of universities will start putting integrity over wins. ”

    Ha! Good one! Yeah, because winning is not important in sports. And everyone will understand that their team sucks with integrity.

    Schools will certainly look a lot more closely at liability and deniability with regard to this one, new aspect of legalism. Lawyers will certainly see an increase in their hours, and the bureaucracy will expand. This one thing will be watched very closely for a while. Other than a rise in ticket prices, though, very little will change. Well, other than the annoying but obligatory pious pontificating by every announcer and coach during game coverage this year.

  • Dan Kempin

    J Dean, #8,

    “. . . a LOT of universities will start putting integrity over wins. ”

    Ha! Good one! Yeah, because winning is not important in sports. And everyone will understand that their team sucks with integrity.

    Schools will certainly look a lot more closely at liability and deniability with regard to this one, new aspect of legalism. Lawyers will certainly see an increase in their hours, and the bureaucracy will expand. This one thing will be watched very closely for a while. Other than a rise in ticket prices, though, very little will change. Well, other than the annoying but obligatory pious pontificating by every announcer and coach during game coverage this year.

  • http://princetonlutherans.com jgernander

    I applaud the removal of the victories. This hits them where it hurts, the pride that Paterno/PSU accomplished this highest victory total by one coach/staff. They can come back from probation and win games again. This removal of victories does something of a more permanent and lasting nature.

  • http://princetonlutherans.com jgernander

    I applaud the removal of the victories. This hits them where it hurts, the pride that Paterno/PSU accomplished this highest victory total by one coach/staff. They can come back from probation and win games again. This removal of victories does something of a more permanent and lasting nature.

  • James Sarver

    #4 Kitty @ #5,

    “He excelled at winning a silly sport at the expense of children being raped.”

    Your post deserves a link at Wikipedia under the topic of false dichotomy and probably under hyperbole and ridiculous assertions as well (right after the link to NCAA sanctions).

    But you are still not showing enough outrage/revulsion to win the contest. What do you do for an encore?

  • James Sarver

    #4 Kitty @ #5,

    “He excelled at winning a silly sport at the expense of children being raped.”

    Your post deserves a link at Wikipedia under the topic of false dichotomy and probably under hyperbole and ridiculous assertions as well (right after the link to NCAA sanctions).

    But you are still not showing enough outrage/revulsion to win the contest. What do you do for an encore?

  • James Sarver

    Dan Kempin @ #7,

    “(Not to mention the totally ludicrous notion of “vacating” wins. It is foolish, arrogant, and dangerous to intentionally revise history…)”

    Careful dude. You aren’t showing the acceptable level of outrage. :)

    I think the better choice, if one insists on making up fairy tales, would have been to invent a mythical coach (Melvin Schlunk) that occupied the spot of “he who shall not be named” for the last half century. Then at least one could leave the wins in place for those who actually played under coach Schlunk, the guy who always did what was expected of him, posthumously.

    Oh, and burn the birth certificate of coach nameless, just for good measure.

  • James Sarver

    Dan Kempin @ #7,

    “(Not to mention the totally ludicrous notion of “vacating” wins. It is foolish, arrogant, and dangerous to intentionally revise history…)”

    Careful dude. You aren’t showing the acceptable level of outrage. :)

    I think the better choice, if one insists on making up fairy tales, would have been to invent a mythical coach (Melvin Schlunk) that occupied the spot of “he who shall not be named” for the last half century. Then at least one could leave the wins in place for those who actually played under coach Schlunk, the guy who always did what was expected of him, posthumously.

    Oh, and burn the birth certificate of coach nameless, just for good measure.

  • #4 Kitty

    @James Sarver #13

    James you forgot to point out where I’m mistaken.

  • #4 Kitty

    @James Sarver #13

    James you forgot to point out where I’m mistaken.

  • Grace

    formerly just Steve @4

    “Don’t we have the capacity to understand that one man can be capable of both great heights and great lows? And very often, the greater the height the deeper the low.

    “understand” ?

    The “low” in the case of Paterno, and that of anyone who knew what Sandusky had/was doing doesn’t deserve any sort of remembrance. One must think of the young people who were molested by Sandusky, why should they have to be reminded, either by a statue of this evil man, or any other symbol?

    Your last sentence is false. One can do good, and not stoop to such a low, as molestation of children.

  • Grace

    formerly just Steve @4

    “Don’t we have the capacity to understand that one man can be capable of both great heights and great lows? And very often, the greater the height the deeper the low.

    “understand” ?

    The “low” in the case of Paterno, and that of anyone who knew what Sandusky had/was doing doesn’t deserve any sort of remembrance. One must think of the young people who were molested by Sandusky, why should they have to be reminded, either by a statue of this evil man, or any other symbol?

    Your last sentence is false. One can do good, and not stoop to such a low, as molestation of children.

  • Carl Vehse

    The NCAA didn’t erase the memories of Paterno’s football games. It simply erased the honor Paterno had associated with winning those games.

    There is no damnatio memoriae in this case. Paterno will be remembered, but not in the way he would have imagined.

  • Carl Vehse

    The NCAA didn’t erase the memories of Paterno’s football games. It simply erased the honor Paterno had associated with winning those games.

    There is no damnatio memoriae in this case. Paterno will be remembered, but not in the way he would have imagined.

  • Grace

    Carl,

    I agree with you. Sandusky – - Paterno, and those who covered this up, most certainly should be rememberd, as adults who hid horrible acts against young people, FOR WHAT? – to win football games? to be held in high esteem among those in the sports world? – that’s a high price to make the abused pay for their glory days!

    Holding them up as an example of the worst kind. Parents who trusted these people, young people who walked into a trap. It’s all negative, and will be remembered as such.

  • Grace

    Carl,

    I agree with you. Sandusky – - Paterno, and those who covered this up, most certainly should be rememberd, as adults who hid horrible acts against young people, FOR WHAT? – to win football games? to be held in high esteem among those in the sports world? – that’s a high price to make the abused pay for their glory days!

    Holding them up as an example of the worst kind. Parents who trusted these people, young people who walked into a trap. It’s all negative, and will be remembered as such.

  • Carl Vehse

    Former Penn State President Graham Spanier, accused of covering up sexual abuse allegations in Jerry Sandusky case, lands a security job with federal government.

    Beside Paterno’s legacy being flushed down the toilet, this is another Ped State person whose reputation should even be looked down on by a crackwhore. And in the current Traitorobama regime that probably applies to his new job as well.

  • Carl Vehse

    Former Penn State President Graham Spanier, accused of covering up sexual abuse allegations in Jerry Sandusky case, lands a security job with federal government.

    Beside Paterno’s legacy being flushed down the toilet, this is another Ped State person whose reputation should even be looked down on by a crackwhore. And in the current Traitorobama regime that probably applies to his new job as well.

  • James Sarver

    #4 Kitty @ #15,

    “James you forgot to point out where I’m mistaken.”

    Much like the Freeh report, you start out with a fact (excelled at winning), then quickly devolve into opinion, then speculation based on worst possible construction, then throw in another fact. The factual bookends don’t make the whole thing true. We can start there and roll forward if you need more.

  • James Sarver

    #4 Kitty @ #15,

    “James you forgot to point out where I’m mistaken.”

    Much like the Freeh report, you start out with a fact (excelled at winning), then quickly devolve into opinion, then speculation based on worst possible construction, then throw in another fact. The factual bookends don’t make the whole thing true. We can start there and roll forward if you need more.

  • fjsteve

    Grace, #16

    “The “low” in the case of Paterno, and that of anyone who knew what Sandusky had/was doing doesn’t deserve any sort of remembrance. One must think of the young people who were molested by Sandusky, why should they have to be reminded, either by a statue of this evil man, or any other symbol?”

    Sure, knock down the stature, who cares? But his wins are deserved. Regardless of what else he did or did not do, he deserves the wins.

    “Your last sentence is false. One can do good, and not stoop to such a low, as molestation of children.”

    You’ll notice I said “often”. My point was not that everyone who does great things also does equally horrid things. That’s silly. But history is full of great men with great flaws.

  • fjsteve

    Grace, #16

    “The “low” in the case of Paterno, and that of anyone who knew what Sandusky had/was doing doesn’t deserve any sort of remembrance. One must think of the young people who were molested by Sandusky, why should they have to be reminded, either by a statue of this evil man, or any other symbol?”

    Sure, knock down the stature, who cares? But his wins are deserved. Regardless of what else he did or did not do, he deserves the wins.

    “Your last sentence is false. One can do good, and not stoop to such a low, as molestation of children.”

    You’ll notice I said “often”. My point was not that everyone who does great things also does equally horrid things. That’s silly. But history is full of great men with great flaws.

  • Grace

    fjsteve @21

    “But history is full of great men with great flaws.”

    Yes there are “flaws” everyone has them – but molesting a child is one of the worst, hateful abuses imaginable. A man can win a thousand games, but if he touches the young lives of children sexually, to dishonor them, he has lost all respect, he is NOT GREAT .. there is nothing to remember except the pain he caused for the youth he abused, including those who knew, and kept SILENT!

  • Grace

    fjsteve @21

    “But history is full of great men with great flaws.”

    Yes there are “flaws” everyone has them – but molesting a child is one of the worst, hateful abuses imaginable. A man can win a thousand games, but if he touches the young lives of children sexually, to dishonor them, he has lost all respect, he is NOT GREAT .. there is nothing to remember except the pain he caused for the youth he abused, including those who knew, and kept SILENT!

  • Carl Vehse

    Dan Kempin @7: “Not to mention the totally ludicrous notion of “vacating” wins. It is foolish, arrogant, and dangerous to intentionally revise history.”

    Mike Westfall @9: “But vacating wins? Declaring by fiat that what actually happened did not happen?”

    fjsteve @21: “But his wins are deserved. Regardless of what else he did or did not do, he deserves the wins.”

    To the contrary. The vacated wins are those wins no longer recognized by the NCAA and recorded in the NCAA record books. Paterno does NOT deserve official NCAA wins “regardless of what else he did or did not do.” He and his football team and the university agreed to that when they joined the NCAA. They agreed to abide by NCAA rules and procedures when they joined the NCAA, and as long as the university is a member.

    Check out Division I Bylaw 19.5.2 (h) in the NCAA Compliance Manual (p. 323).

  • Carl Vehse

    Dan Kempin @7: “Not to mention the totally ludicrous notion of “vacating” wins. It is foolish, arrogant, and dangerous to intentionally revise history.”

    Mike Westfall @9: “But vacating wins? Declaring by fiat that what actually happened did not happen?”

    fjsteve @21: “But his wins are deserved. Regardless of what else he did or did not do, he deserves the wins.”

    To the contrary. The vacated wins are those wins no longer recognized by the NCAA and recorded in the NCAA record books. Paterno does NOT deserve official NCAA wins “regardless of what else he did or did not do.” He and his football team and the university agreed to that when they joined the NCAA. They agreed to abide by NCAA rules and procedures when they joined the NCAA, and as long as the university is a member.

    Check out Division I Bylaw 19.5.2 (h) in the NCAA Compliance Manual (p. 323).

  • Grace

    Carl @ 23

    Thank you for the LINK. Few understand, or want to know the truth.

    Molesting, rape is a felony, it most certainly is not a “flaw” – Those who cruelly abuse, molest and rape others, and the ones who hide the truth aren’t worth the adoration, that’s showered upon them from the ‘grand stands, they have won nothing, but DISGRACE- that is what they have EARNED, nothing else.

  • Grace

    Carl @ 23

    Thank you for the LINK. Few understand, or want to know the truth.

    Molesting, rape is a felony, it most certainly is not a “flaw” – Those who cruelly abuse, molest and rape others, and the ones who hide the truth aren’t worth the adoration, that’s showered upon them from the ‘grand stands, they have won nothing, but DISGRACE- that is what they have EARNED, nothing else.

  • Dan Kempin

    Carl,#23,

    To clarify, I don’t have a problem with the concept of “vacating” a win, nor of the NCAA’s right to enforce their own policy. If evidence comes to light after the fact that a team cheated or had an unfair advantage–that their players were on steroids or they had access to the other team’s playbook–then it would be only fair to declare the win invalid. (And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.)

    Vacating the Penn State wins, though, was punitive. They are vacating the games as a punishment for criminal behavior. This is a problem for two reasons: First, they are a professional sports league, not a court. As far as I understand, private citizens, businesses, and associations do not have the right to punish crimes. That is why we have a court system. Secondly, and this is the point I was touching on earlier, it makes no logical sense to the sports fan that games should be vacated for reasons that have nothing to do with the games. This is vigilantism, plain and simple, and self interested vigilantism at that: They are throwing Penn State program under the bus to protect their “brand” and preserve all of the other programs.

    Don’t get me wrong, let the guilty get the book thrown at them, for this was a terrible crime. But let the judge be the one to throw it, not the freaking athletic association.

  • Dan Kempin

    Carl,#23,

    To clarify, I don’t have a problem with the concept of “vacating” a win, nor of the NCAA’s right to enforce their own policy. If evidence comes to light after the fact that a team cheated or had an unfair advantage–that their players were on steroids or they had access to the other team’s playbook–then it would be only fair to declare the win invalid. (And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.)

    Vacating the Penn State wins, though, was punitive. They are vacating the games as a punishment for criminal behavior. This is a problem for two reasons: First, they are a professional sports league, not a court. As far as I understand, private citizens, businesses, and associations do not have the right to punish crimes. That is why we have a court system. Secondly, and this is the point I was touching on earlier, it makes no logical sense to the sports fan that games should be vacated for reasons that have nothing to do with the games. This is vigilantism, plain and simple, and self interested vigilantism at that: They are throwing Penn State program under the bus to protect their “brand” and preserve all of the other programs.

    Don’t get me wrong, let the guilty get the book thrown at them, for this was a terrible crime. But let the judge be the one to throw it, not the freaking athletic association.

  • Carl Vehse

    Dan Kempin @25:

    “To clarify, I don’t have a problem with the concept of “vacating” a win, nor of the NCAA’s right to enforce their own policy.

    “And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.

    “First, they are a professional sports league, not a court. As far as I understand, private citizens, businesses, and associations do not have the right to punish crimes.

    “And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.

    “Secondly, and this is the point I was touching on earlier, it makes no logical sense to the sports fan that games should be vacated for reasons that have nothing to do with the games.

    “And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.

    “This is vigilantism, plain and simple, and self interested vigilantism at that”

    “And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.

    “But let the judge be the one to throw it, not the freaking athletic association.

    “And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.

    Read the manual, Dan.

  • Carl Vehse

    Dan Kempin @25:

    “To clarify, I don’t have a problem with the concept of “vacating” a win, nor of the NCAA’s right to enforce their own policy.

    “And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.

    “First, they are a professional sports league, not a court. As far as I understand, private citizens, businesses, and associations do not have the right to punish crimes.

    “And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.

    “Secondly, and this is the point I was touching on earlier, it makes no logical sense to the sports fan that games should be vacated for reasons that have nothing to do with the games.

    “And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.

    “This is vigilantism, plain and simple, and self interested vigilantism at that”

    “And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.

    “But let the judge be the one to throw it, not the freaking athletic association.

    “And no, I’m not going to read the NCAA manual. I’m just talking common sense here.

    Read the manual, Dan.

  • Dan Kempin

    Carl, #26,

    Sigh. Fine.

    Wait, is this a joke? Bylaw 19.5.2, p 323 doesn’t even have a “(h)”.

    Perhaps it was a typo. 19.5.2.2 (h) says the NCAA can ban postseason eligibility. I think you meant 19.5.2.2 (e) (2). Common mistake. But I never said the NCAA didn’t have the right to vacate wins. I said it was ludicrous to do so in this case.

    In 19.01.1, though, the manual says “It shall be the mission of the NCAA enforcement program to eliminate violations of NCAA rules.” I’m pretty sure that sexual assault and its cover up is not an NCAA rule. It is a violent crime.

    It also says, further, that it is “an important consideration in imposing penalties is to provide fairness to uninvolved student-athletes, coaches, administrators, competitors and other institutions.” Do you think this consideration was applied?

    So having consulted the manual, I repeat: “This is vigilantism, plain and simple, and self interested vigilantism at that: They are throwing Penn State program under the bus to protect their ‘brand’ and preserve all of the other programs.”

  • Dan Kempin

    Carl, #26,

    Sigh. Fine.

    Wait, is this a joke? Bylaw 19.5.2, p 323 doesn’t even have a “(h)”.

    Perhaps it was a typo. 19.5.2.2 (h) says the NCAA can ban postseason eligibility. I think you meant 19.5.2.2 (e) (2). Common mistake. But I never said the NCAA didn’t have the right to vacate wins. I said it was ludicrous to do so in this case.

    In 19.01.1, though, the manual says “It shall be the mission of the NCAA enforcement program to eliminate violations of NCAA rules.” I’m pretty sure that sexual assault and its cover up is not an NCAA rule. It is a violent crime.

    It also says, further, that it is “an important consideration in imposing penalties is to provide fairness to uninvolved student-athletes, coaches, administrators, competitors and other institutions.” Do you think this consideration was applied?

    So having consulted the manual, I repeat: “This is vigilantism, plain and simple, and self interested vigilantism at that: They are throwing Penn State program under the bus to protect their ‘brand’ and preserve all of the other programs.”

  • Carl Vehse

    Oops, the previous link was to the 2010-2011 NCAA Division I Manual.

    Try Bylaw 19.5.2 (h) in the 2011-12 NCAA Division I Manual (p. 323).

  • Carl Vehse

    Oops, the previous link was to the 2010-2011 NCAA Division I Manual.

    Try Bylaw 19.5.2 (h) in the 2011-12 NCAA Division I Manual (p. 323).

  • Michael B.

    @Grace@24

    “Molesting, rape is a felony, it most certainly is not a “flaw” – ”

    I was kind of chuckling when I heard someone describe Sandusky’s actions as a “flaw”, as if he merely had anger in his heart or didn’t attend church regularly.

  • Michael B.

    @Grace@24

    “Molesting, rape is a felony, it most certainly is not a “flaw” – ”

    I was kind of chuckling when I heard someone describe Sandusky’s actions as a “flaw”, as if he merely had anger in his heart or didn’t attend church regularly.

  • Carl Vehse

    … or as if he wrote some typical liberal tripe in a post on Cranach.

  • Carl Vehse

    … or as if he wrote some typical liberal tripe in a post on Cranach.


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X