Parents and children are not natural enemies

An interesting observation from Miss Manners (a.k.a. Judith Martin) in response to a question from a young adult who is living with her parents and wanting to know how best to respond to rude questions (“You’re how old and still living with your parents?”):

The people who say this are HOW old?

Miss Manners asks because the generation that considers relatives to be natural enemies is aging. They grew up denouncing their parents’ values, styles of living and psyches; they left home as soon as possible and resented the expectation of telephone calls and holiday visits; and they predicted antagonism from children — their own as well as others’ — at every stage: Babies would ruin your life, teenagers would hate you, young adults would go off and never be heard from again, or, worse, come home.

That other cultures value and seek to prolong family ties does not discourage such believers from declaring generational enmity to be normal human behavior.

But things are changing. You are far from the only young adult living with his parents. And while doing so is always explained in terms of economic hardship and maternal laundry service, those are not the only reasons.

It seems that another generation of parents has reared children who become fond of them. Miss Manners keeps hearing of, and even reading about, college students who keep in frequent touch with their parents, and graduates who are frankly happy to return home, in preference to living in solitude or with yet more roommates.

So you should be hearing fewer such remarks. That aging generation is beginning to realize that if a time comes when they are no longer able to live on their own, it is their children who will decide where to place them.

via Miss Manners: Some young adults live at home because they like it – The Washington Post.

The issue I’d like us to contemplate is not whether adult children should live at home but the observation that the  hostile “generation gap” was an artifact  of the 1960s and not a universal condition, and that children are now growing up who are fond of their parents and enjoy spending time with them. This is progress, isn’t it?

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • Cincinnatus

    Not to incite a generational civil war yet again–a frequent occurrence on the internet–but, yes, this seems to be an artifact of Baby Boomer culture. While I suspect a certain agon has always existed between parents and children, particularly fathers and sons, a culture in which children more or less hate and abandon their parents en masse is a luxury that could only be afforded (and countenanced) by the decadent children who came of age post-WWII.

    That said, I’ll believe that this intergenerational angst is improving when I see it. Most of my peers are doing what twenty-something college graduates have done for several decades: happily severing all ties with “home” and trotting off to New York or Chicago or L.A., little thinking of whether they have any duties to their ancestors.

  • Cincinnatus

    Not to incite a generational civil war yet again–a frequent occurrence on the internet–but, yes, this seems to be an artifact of Baby Boomer culture. While I suspect a certain agon has always existed between parents and children, particularly fathers and sons, a culture in which children more or less hate and abandon their parents en masse is a luxury that could only be afforded (and countenanced) by the decadent children who came of age post-WWII.

    That said, I’ll believe that this intergenerational angst is improving when I see it. Most of my peers are doing what twenty-something college graduates have done for several decades: happily severing all ties with “home” and trotting off to New York or Chicago or L.A., little thinking of whether they have any duties to their ancestors.

  • Tom Hering

    I just listened to an hour-long radio interview with Joel Kotkin, who wrote Are Millenials the Screwed Generation? for Newsweek. The piece blames Boomers for just about every woe Millenials suffer, and is far from the only example of Boomer-bashing I’ve seen. So, is intergenerational hostility really a thing of the past? I fear Miss Manners may be living a sheltered life.

  • Tom Hering

    I just listened to an hour-long radio interview with Joel Kotkin, who wrote Are Millenials the Screwed Generation? for Newsweek. The piece blames Boomers for just about every woe Millenials suffer, and is far from the only example of Boomer-bashing I’ve seen. So, is intergenerational hostility really a thing of the past? I fear Miss Manners may be living a sheltered life.

  • Cincinnatus

    Tom@2:

    A fair point, but I would suggest that there is a difference between hating a generation conceived as an abstract ideal (the “Baby Boomers”), complete with a preconceived set of abstract attributes (“selfish,” “greedy,” “egocentric”), and hating one’s actual, embodied, specific parents. Millennials like myself may despise the Baby Boomers (and Generation Y?) for various socio-political reasons, but I think Miss Manners might be observing a noteworthy phenomenon when she claims that Millennials, by and large, don’t hate their parents in the same way that the rebels, hippies, “individuals,” etc., of the Baby Boomer generation did.

    Then again, as I said, I’ll believe it when I see it.

  • Cincinnatus

    Tom@2:

    A fair point, but I would suggest that there is a difference between hating a generation conceived as an abstract ideal (the “Baby Boomers”), complete with a preconceived set of abstract attributes (“selfish,” “greedy,” “egocentric”), and hating one’s actual, embodied, specific parents. Millennials like myself may despise the Baby Boomers (and Generation Y?) for various socio-political reasons, but I think Miss Manners might be observing a noteworthy phenomenon when she claims that Millennials, by and large, don’t hate their parents in the same way that the rebels, hippies, “individuals,” etc., of the Baby Boomer generation did.

    Then again, as I said, I’ll believe it when I see it.

  • Rhonda

    Where we live, adult children generally like to be with their parents and other relatives for that matter. My husband and I raised 5 kids and they like spending time with us…Sunday dinner every week, and going on vacations with us. Several have moved back home for various reasons and moved out again and still visit and call often. I see it in many families here in Minn. We really like eachother.

  • Rhonda

    Where we live, adult children generally like to be with their parents and other relatives for that matter. My husband and I raised 5 kids and they like spending time with us…Sunday dinner every week, and going on vacations with us. Several have moved back home for various reasons and moved out again and still visit and call often. I see it in many families here in Minn. We really like eachother.

  • Tom Hering

    Cincinnatus @ 3, as I recall, the personal nature of the enmity between the Boomers and their parents was mutual. If that hasn’t been the case between the Boomers and their own children, credit Boomer parents with having learned from their experience.

  • Tom Hering

    Cincinnatus @ 3, as I recall, the personal nature of the enmity between the Boomers and their parents was mutual. If that hasn’t been the case between the Boomers and their own children, credit Boomer parents with having learned from their experience.

  • kerner

    My experience is anecdotal but I agree with Cincinnatus to the extent that I see plenty of separation between my (baby boomer) generation and our children. My children and grandchildren all live in the same county I do. But, I am the rare exception. Most of my contemporaries talk to me of their children living hundreds of miles away, or more.

    But unlike many I question whether this is as new a development as it is cracked up to be. This entire country west of the Appalachians was settled by people who left their homes and migrated. In fact, the entire country east of the Appalachians was settled by people who left their homes in Europe and migrated to the new world.

    And while I’m not entirely sure exactly how we baby-boomers came to be who we are, I am very sure that we didn’t just pop from our mothers wombs more selfish than all preceding or succeeding generations. Our parents, and their parents, and their parents had a lot to do with who we came to be. And, God help them, the same will be true of our children and their children.

    Cincinnatus:

    Despise us if you will. Our music, our football, and our unstructured childhoods were better than yours.

  • kerner

    My experience is anecdotal but I agree with Cincinnatus to the extent that I see plenty of separation between my (baby boomer) generation and our children. My children and grandchildren all live in the same county I do. But, I am the rare exception. Most of my contemporaries talk to me of their children living hundreds of miles away, or more.

    But unlike many I question whether this is as new a development as it is cracked up to be. This entire country west of the Appalachians was settled by people who left their homes and migrated. In fact, the entire country east of the Appalachians was settled by people who left their homes in Europe and migrated to the new world.

    And while I’m not entirely sure exactly how we baby-boomers came to be who we are, I am very sure that we didn’t just pop from our mothers wombs more selfish than all preceding or succeeding generations. Our parents, and their parents, and their parents had a lot to do with who we came to be. And, God help them, the same will be true of our children and their children.

    Cincinnatus:

    Despise us if you will. Our music, our football, and our unstructured childhoods were better than yours.

  • Joe

    Kerner — its not your childhoods we abhor; its your adulthoods that have ruined everything … :)

  • Joe

    Kerner — its not your childhoods we abhor; its your adulthoods that have ruined everything … :)

  • Tom Hering

    Yes, in our sinfulness, we’ve ruined everything. Hopefully, Millenials are – by nature – less sinful than us. But the world will have to wait for their offspring’s judgment about that. :-)

  • Tom Hering

    Yes, in our sinfulness, we’ve ruined everything. Hopefully, Millenials are – by nature – less sinful than us. But the world will have to wait for their offspring’s judgment about that. :-)

  • Klasie Kraalogies

    Cincinnatus – I agree.

    Joe – Bravo, sir! Well said!

  • Klasie Kraalogies

    Cincinnatus – I agree.

    Joe – Bravo, sir! Well said!

  • Klasie Kraalogies

    Tom, as one of those in-betweeners (sometimes called Generation X), I do not have high hopes for anyone. Especially those born after 1982…

    (I was born in 1974, in case you wondered. But my parents were born in the 30′s).

  • Klasie Kraalogies

    Tom, as one of those in-betweeners (sometimes called Generation X), I do not have high hopes for anyone. Especially those born after 1982…

    (I was born in 1974, in case you wondered. But my parents were born in the 30′s).

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Yeah, I really don’t think the Baby Boomers are the root of the problem. More likely their parents. All that 60′s crap was the result of the actions of the Boomer’s parents. (Of Mice and Men) The Boomers did what they were programmed to do (no offense to you Boomers). They were the followers. Even the music. Janis Joplin wasn’t a Boomer. Jimi Hendrix wasn’t a Boomer. Mick Jagger wasn’t a Boomer. Paul McCartney wasn’t a Boomer. That Silent Generation wasn’t so silent. They were more like the bad big brother egging on the littler brothers to get themselves into big trouble with lots of dangerous ideas.

    The Greatest Generation and the Silent Generation were the big winners, beloved by history as well of the recipients of all the goodies of the social programs they voted for. They cashed in on the the wealth created by the Boomers. Many Boomers will not live to get all that stuff because the Greatest Generation and the Silent generation didn’t realize that the combination of birth control and immigration would leave their children and grandchildren aging with an alien population left to support their social welfare schemes. Those new Americans are more likely to rearrange social programs for their own benefit than for the old Americans. The Greatest Generation and Silent Generations set up the structure for the dispossession of their own descendants.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Yeah, I really don’t think the Baby Boomers are the root of the problem. More likely their parents. All that 60′s crap was the result of the actions of the Boomer’s parents. (Of Mice and Men) The Boomers did what they were programmed to do (no offense to you Boomers). They were the followers. Even the music. Janis Joplin wasn’t a Boomer. Jimi Hendrix wasn’t a Boomer. Mick Jagger wasn’t a Boomer. Paul McCartney wasn’t a Boomer. That Silent Generation wasn’t so silent. They were more like the bad big brother egging on the littler brothers to get themselves into big trouble with lots of dangerous ideas.

    The Greatest Generation and the Silent Generation were the big winners, beloved by history as well of the recipients of all the goodies of the social programs they voted for. They cashed in on the the wealth created by the Boomers. Many Boomers will not live to get all that stuff because the Greatest Generation and the Silent generation didn’t realize that the combination of birth control and immigration would leave their children and grandchildren aging with an alien population left to support their social welfare schemes. Those new Americans are more likely to rearrange social programs for their own benefit than for the old Americans. The Greatest Generation and Silent Generations set up the structure for the dispossession of their own descendants.

  • kerner

    Joe @7:

    Baloney, sir! Things were ruined before we grew up! :D

    Seriously, the “greatest generation” grew up with “New Deal” socialism and gave us “Great Society” socialism, all while we baby boomers were young and ineffectual. WE are the generation who sobered up and elected Ronald Reagan.

    What have you young pups done for us since? ;)

  • kerner

    Joe @7:

    Baloney, sir! Things were ruined before we grew up! :D

    Seriously, the “greatest generation” grew up with “New Deal” socialism and gave us “Great Society” socialism, all while we baby boomers were young and ineffectual. WE are the generation who sobered up and elected Ronald Reagan.

    What have you young pups done for us since? ;)

  • Cincinnatus

    kerner and sg: I agree with you. The Greatest Generation wasn’t so great, and the preconditions for Baby Boomer decadence were established before their birth (although claiming that Mick Jagger isn’t a Boomer is a bit of a technicality: he was only born two years before the “official” beginning of Boomer-dom).

    But this is missing the point, I think. Generational attributes using the stereotypical generational language–Boomers, Silent, Greatest, Millennial–are a distraction. The point is that Miss Manners suggests that contemporary youth are more respectful, affectionate, and dutiful to their parents than were their parents to theirs. Is she right? Or, like most editorialists, is she just bloviating?

    For my part, I don’t know. As I said, there is no longer a meaningful culture of youthful rebellion. For all practical purposes, there are no hippies or rebels without causes. Children typically leave the embrace of their parents’ much later than 18. On the other hand, I don’t personally know many young people who are making any sort of concerted effort to recognize filial obligations. Perhaps this says more about my socioeconomic class than anything else, but most of my peers are uprooted twenty/thirty-somethings who live many hundreds of miles from their parents. They’re not in active rebellion, but they certainly aren’t reclaiming a culture of intergenerational harmony and togetherness.

  • Cincinnatus

    kerner and sg: I agree with you. The Greatest Generation wasn’t so great, and the preconditions for Baby Boomer decadence were established before their birth (although claiming that Mick Jagger isn’t a Boomer is a bit of a technicality: he was only born two years before the “official” beginning of Boomer-dom).

    But this is missing the point, I think. Generational attributes using the stereotypical generational language–Boomers, Silent, Greatest, Millennial–are a distraction. The point is that Miss Manners suggests that contemporary youth are more respectful, affectionate, and dutiful to their parents than were their parents to theirs. Is she right? Or, like most editorialists, is she just bloviating?

    For my part, I don’t know. As I said, there is no longer a meaningful culture of youthful rebellion. For all practical purposes, there are no hippies or rebels without causes. Children typically leave the embrace of their parents’ much later than 18. On the other hand, I don’t personally know many young people who are making any sort of concerted effort to recognize filial obligations. Perhaps this says more about my socioeconomic class than anything else, but most of my peers are uprooted twenty/thirty-somethings who live many hundreds of miles from their parents. They’re not in active rebellion, but they certainly aren’t reclaiming a culture of intergenerational harmony and togetherness.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    What have you young pups done for us since?

    Nothing, and we aren’t going to either. There aren’t enough of us. Boomers’ parents trained them to believe that strangers would love them as much as their own kin. Unfortunately, it isn’t true. We can’t support our parents in the style to which their grandparents got them accustomed, and at the same time care for all of the folks our idealistic grandparents have imported. There just aren’t enough of us to support indigent elderly and indigent youngsters. There are 25 million people in Texas. Over 2.5 million of them are indigent minors under 18 many of whom will grow up to be marginally productive.

    Bon courage

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    What have you young pups done for us since?

    Nothing, and we aren’t going to either. There aren’t enough of us. Boomers’ parents trained them to believe that strangers would love them as much as their own kin. Unfortunately, it isn’t true. We can’t support our parents in the style to which their grandparents got them accustomed, and at the same time care for all of the folks our idealistic grandparents have imported. There just aren’t enough of us to support indigent elderly and indigent youngsters. There are 25 million people in Texas. Over 2.5 million of them are indigent minors under 18 many of whom will grow up to be marginally productive.

    Bon courage

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com bike bubba

    It boggles the mind that our culture has accepted the idea that children ought to find enmity with the people who brought them into existence, nourished them, housed them, educated them, and in general trained them for life.

    That said, I’d have to guess that a lot of the “generation gap” had to do with the practice of outward conformity without an inner spiritual transformation–seen often in 1950s culture, and regrettably still around today.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com bike bubba

    It boggles the mind that our culture has accepted the idea that children ought to find enmity with the people who brought them into existence, nourished them, housed them, educated them, and in general trained them for life.

    That said, I’d have to guess that a lot of the “generation gap” had to do with the practice of outward conformity without an inner spiritual transformation–seen often in 1950s culture, and regrettably still around today.

  • kerner

    sg:

    Ah my number crunching friend, how right you are! And don’t forget Dr. Spock, Hugh Hefner, Margaret Meade, Madolyn Murray O’Hair, Anton Lavey, Charles Manson, Bob Guccione, John Maynard Keynes, Shirley MacLaine (her theology, not her acting), Harry Blackmun (Author of Roe v. Wade)… The list of people pre-baby boom who screwed up western civilization is almost endless

  • kerner

    sg:

    Ah my number crunching friend, how right you are! And don’t forget Dr. Spock, Hugh Hefner, Margaret Meade, Madolyn Murray O’Hair, Anton Lavey, Charles Manson, Bob Guccione, John Maynard Keynes, Shirley MacLaine (her theology, not her acting), Harry Blackmun (Author of Roe v. Wade)… The list of people pre-baby boom who screwed up western civilization is almost endless

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    I don’t personally know many young people who are making any sort of concerted effort to recognize filial obligations.

    Let’s be honest and accountable. You cannot expect people to learn stuff you don’t teach. It is ridiculous to complain that kids are illiterate if you don’t teach them to read.

    Now, how many of you people here have told their kids since they were in diapers that they had better support you when you are old and take care of you? How many of you are now setting that example yourselves? This is not a condemnation. Just a description. If you don’t tell them, don’t expect them to know it.

    Have your kids grown up with grandparents who say they don’t want to be a burden or some such? Have you said that yourselves? If you have, then that is the expectation you have set and your kids are only being faithful to your teaching and example. You can’t blame them for what you have taught and they have faithfully learned.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    I don’t personally know many young people who are making any sort of concerted effort to recognize filial obligations.

    Let’s be honest and accountable. You cannot expect people to learn stuff you don’t teach. It is ridiculous to complain that kids are illiterate if you don’t teach them to read.

    Now, how many of you people here have told their kids since they were in diapers that they had better support you when you are old and take care of you? How many of you are now setting that example yourselves? This is not a condemnation. Just a description. If you don’t tell them, don’t expect them to know it.

    Have your kids grown up with grandparents who say they don’t want to be a burden or some such? Have you said that yourselves? If you have, then that is the expectation you have set and your kids are only being faithful to your teaching and example. You can’t blame them for what you have taught and they have faithfully learned.

  • kerner

    Bike:
    “That said, I’d have to guess that a lot of the “generation gap” had to do with the practice of outward conformity without an inner spiritual transformation–seen often in 1950s culture, and regrettably still around today.”

    Yet another thing we baby boomers inherited, and did not invent.

  • kerner

    Bike:
    “That said, I’d have to guess that a lot of the “generation gap” had to do with the practice of outward conformity without an inner spiritual transformation–seen often in 1950s culture, and regrettably still around today.”

    Yet another thing we baby boomers inherited, and did not invent.

  • Cincinnatus

    sg:

    I’m merely observing, not “complaining.” And I agree with you, which is why I think Miss Manners is probably mistaken. The fact that many overgrown adolescents are staying in their moms’ basements out of economic necessity and/or laziness isn’t necessarily a harbinger of renewed familial bonds.

  • Cincinnatus

    sg:

    I’m merely observing, not “complaining.” And I agree with you, which is why I think Miss Manners is probably mistaken. The fact that many overgrown adolescents are staying in their moms’ basements out of economic necessity and/or laziness isn’t necessarily a harbinger of renewed familial bonds.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    The generation gap is really just marketing and training. Kids watched tv and grew in identity with peers rather than family. Just plain old learning. They spent all their time with peers at school and bonded with their generation. Horizontal bonding instead of vertical bonding. When most people lived on the farm, their bonds were with parents and grandparents and siblings nieces, nephews. They were constantly with those people. There was literally no one else to bond with. The ate, slept, worked, worshipped all together. Probably 98% of their time they were with their families until they married and eventually left. I was surprised to find that formal public schooling was only like 60 days per year for my grandparents, and that was not all day.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    The generation gap is really just marketing and training. Kids watched tv and grew in identity with peers rather than family. Just plain old learning. They spent all their time with peers at school and bonded with their generation. Horizontal bonding instead of vertical bonding. When most people lived on the farm, their bonds were with parents and grandparents and siblings nieces, nephews. They were constantly with those people. There was literally no one else to bond with. The ate, slept, worked, worshipped all together. Probably 98% of their time they were with their families until they married and eventually left. I was surprised to find that formal public schooling was only like 60 days per year for my grandparents, and that was not all day.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    (although claiming that Mick Jagger isn’t a Boomer is a bit of a technicality: he was only born two years before the “official” beginning of Boomer-dom).

    My mother is boomer. Born in 46. She has that typical obedient diligent compliant passivity you see in Boomers (not every single one!!). She swallowed a lot of that crap whole. Mick Jagger has more of the feral aggressive individual type personality more common in the previous generation. This idea reminds me of the tipping point idea. At what concentration of x trait or constellation of traits in a population do you see y effects. I think the differences are pretty small but combined with the environment, they combine for large effects.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    (although claiming that Mick Jagger isn’t a Boomer is a bit of a technicality: he was only born two years before the “official” beginning of Boomer-dom).

    My mother is boomer. Born in 46. She has that typical obedient diligent compliant passivity you see in Boomers (not every single one!!). She swallowed a lot of that crap whole. Mick Jagger has more of the feral aggressive individual type personality more common in the previous generation. This idea reminds me of the tipping point idea. At what concentration of x trait or constellation of traits in a population do you see y effects. I think the differences are pretty small but combined with the environment, they combine for large effects.

  • kerner

    sg@21:

    Are you sure about obedient compliant diligent passivity being a predominant trait among baby boomers? I haven’t noticed it myself.

  • kerner

    sg@21:

    Are you sure about obedient compliant diligent passivity being a predominant trait among baby boomers? I haven’t noticed it myself.

  • Cincinnatus

    Kerner@22:

    That’s exactly my question. Since when is the generation of hippies, the counterculture, sexual promiscuity, etc., the “obedient” and “compliant” generation? Aren’t those ascriptions more appropriate for the “Silent Generation” and/or the Millennials, whose avatar David Brooks has named the “Organization Kid” (given his willingness to obey the rules, jump through the hoops, etc., to attain the kind of material success that his parents did).

  • Cincinnatus

    Kerner@22:

    That’s exactly my question. Since when is the generation of hippies, the counterculture, sexual promiscuity, etc., the “obedient” and “compliant” generation? Aren’t those ascriptions more appropriate for the “Silent Generation” and/or the Millennials, whose avatar David Brooks has named the “Organization Kid” (given his willingness to obey the rules, jump through the hoops, etc., to attain the kind of material success that his parents did).

  • Tom Hering

    The Wikipedia article on generation gaps includes this interesting perspective:

    In their research … Gunhild O. Hagestad and Peter Uhlenberg have observed that institutions divide society into roughly three chronological age-based groups which operate in isolated domains. Those in childhood phases are segregated within educational institutions or child-care centers, parents are isolated within work-based domains, while older generations may be relegated to retirement homes, nursing homes, or senior day care centers. Social researchers see this kind of institutionally-based age segregation as a barrier to strong intergenerational relationships, social embeddedness, and generativity (the passing down of a positive legacy through mentoring and other cross-generational interactions)

  • Tom Hering

    The Wikipedia article on generation gaps includes this interesting perspective:

    In their research … Gunhild O. Hagestad and Peter Uhlenberg have observed that institutions divide society into roughly three chronological age-based groups which operate in isolated domains. Those in childhood phases are segregated within educational institutions or child-care centers, parents are isolated within work-based domains, while older generations may be relegated to retirement homes, nursing homes, or senior day care centers. Social researchers see this kind of institutionally-based age segregation as a barrier to strong intergenerational relationships, social embeddedness, and generativity (the passing down of a positive legacy through mentoring and other cross-generational interactions)

  • nativetxn

    As a boomer myself (born in 1947) I can say that my parents’ expectation was that I was supposed to leave home at 18, either to marry or go to college, and not come back!! And I loved and appreciated them, often wanted to return home, but it helped me to get an education and learn valuable skills to raise my own family, who remain close, although at a distance physically. It was emphasized that I was not to depend on any help from them after I married also. and yes, the “Greatest Generation” was not all that great-they were just human beings with all the failings that go along with that.

  • nativetxn

    As a boomer myself (born in 1947) I can say that my parents’ expectation was that I was supposed to leave home at 18, either to marry or go to college, and not come back!! And I loved and appreciated them, often wanted to return home, but it helped me to get an education and learn valuable skills to raise my own family, who remain close, although at a distance physically. It was emphasized that I was not to depend on any help from them after I married also. and yes, the “Greatest Generation” was not all that great-they were just human beings with all the failings that go along with that.

  • kerner

    Tom H:

    I tend to agree, but I wonder how different that is from the 1850-1935 British custom of nannies and boarding school (elementary-secondary) which shaped must have had some effect on the middle and upper classes of Great Britain. By comparison American families of the same period would have seemed closer.

    On the other hand, the tendency of Americans to migrate is nothing new. We began by migrating from Europe, and we populated our entire country west of the Appalatians by migration and homesteading. Some of those migrating families may have brought their old folks along, but doubtless some of them left them behind.

  • kerner

    Tom H:

    I tend to agree, but I wonder how different that is from the 1850-1935 British custom of nannies and boarding school (elementary-secondary) which shaped must have had some effect on the middle and upper classes of Great Britain. By comparison American families of the same period would have seemed closer.

    On the other hand, the tendency of Americans to migrate is nothing new. We began by migrating from Europe, and we populated our entire country west of the Appalatians by migration and homesteading. Some of those migrating families may have brought their old folks along, but doubtless some of them left them behind.

  • Steve Billingsley

    Tom H. and kerner,

    Interesting observations. Orwell (and in a different way, C.S. Lewis) traced what they considered the degeneration of British society from the 19th to the 20th centuries to the shipping off of children (at least for the upper class and the upper middle class) for large swaths of their upbringing to boarding schools. One of the strong points of homeschooling (at least in my own experience, I am not an authority of how it is done everywhere) is that strict age-segregation is minimal and inter-generational relationships are encouraged and facilitated to a much greater degree.
    The “generation gap” in my opinion is part of human nature on one hand and greatly exacerbated by the social, educational and media patterns of post WWII society on the other. Human nature isn’t likely to change, but social patterns can and do change across generations, for better and for worse.

  • Steve Billingsley

    Tom H. and kerner,

    Interesting observations. Orwell (and in a different way, C.S. Lewis) traced what they considered the degeneration of British society from the 19th to the 20th centuries to the shipping off of children (at least for the upper class and the upper middle class) for large swaths of their upbringing to boarding schools. One of the strong points of homeschooling (at least in my own experience, I am not an authority of how it is done everywhere) is that strict age-segregation is minimal and inter-generational relationships are encouraged and facilitated to a much greater degree.
    The “generation gap” in my opinion is part of human nature on one hand and greatly exacerbated by the social, educational and media patterns of post WWII society on the other. Human nature isn’t likely to change, but social patterns can and do change across generations, for better and for worse.

  • kerner

    Cinn @23:

    Maybe all the drugs baby boomers were taking made us seem passive. ;)

  • kerner

    Cinn @23:

    Maybe all the drugs baby boomers were taking made us seem passive. ;)

  • PinonCoffee

    As a teenager, I never saw the use of assuming all teens were evil and rebellious and treating us accordingly. Logically, that is a self-fulfilling prophecy, or it’s true and unlikely to bring the rebel home, or it’s…wrong. I hope it’s a generational thing that will fade away. But every generation is weird in its own special way.

    But then, my big rebellion was listening to classical music after overdoses of Christian rock.

  • PinonCoffee

    As a teenager, I never saw the use of assuming all teens were evil and rebellious and treating us accordingly. Logically, that is a self-fulfilling prophecy, or it’s true and unlikely to bring the rebel home, or it’s…wrong. I hope it’s a generational thing that will fade away. But every generation is weird in its own special way.

    But then, my big rebellion was listening to classical music after overdoses of Christian rock.

  • Grace

    I’ve thought of the differences often, especially within ethnic groups. Asians tend to bond together, no matter the age, they stay close, seeing each other often, living with different family members of different ages. Financial situations have little, to nothing to do with it. Hispanics are very much the same way. I believe they have been taught from childhood to care for their grandparents, elder aunts and uncles, and anyone else. But most of all they love being together. When I ask people of these groups, being any Asian or Hispanic, how they are going to spend the weekend or a holiday, they answer “oh, we are all getting together for dinner, and enjoying ourselves” -

    Elder members of families often need to be cared for. I don’t believe they should be expected to live in a senior development/community, nor should they be sent off to an assisted living situation. They belong with their children, or other family members. What has happened, as I observe our families, communities is this; for the most part, people are selfish, they don’t want to share their homes, spare bedrooms, and most of all their lives with family members. They want segregate themselves, to live a selfish, isolationist life.

    It becomes important when one of the elders becomes ill, that one will find the children (any age) coming around. As I’ve observed, the inheritance is one of the big motives. Sad, but true.

    1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power there of: from such turn away.

    2 Timothy 3

    We are seeing much of this today, (it’s been going on for some time) hence this blog post. It isn’t just family, it’s about God, loving HIM and loving our families and neighbors.

    Some families still hold great love and affection for one another, especially those who are Believers in Christ.

    This is a sad discussion, one that tugs at the ♥

  • Grace

    I’ve thought of the differences often, especially within ethnic groups. Asians tend to bond together, no matter the age, they stay close, seeing each other often, living with different family members of different ages. Financial situations have little, to nothing to do with it. Hispanics are very much the same way. I believe they have been taught from childhood to care for their grandparents, elder aunts and uncles, and anyone else. But most of all they love being together. When I ask people of these groups, being any Asian or Hispanic, how they are going to spend the weekend or a holiday, they answer “oh, we are all getting together for dinner, and enjoying ourselves” -

    Elder members of families often need to be cared for. I don’t believe they should be expected to live in a senior development/community, nor should they be sent off to an assisted living situation. They belong with their children, or other family members. What has happened, as I observe our families, communities is this; for the most part, people are selfish, they don’t want to share their homes, spare bedrooms, and most of all their lives with family members. They want segregate themselves, to live a selfish, isolationist life.

    It becomes important when one of the elders becomes ill, that one will find the children (any age) coming around. As I’ve observed, the inheritance is one of the big motives. Sad, but true.

    1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power there of: from such turn away.

    2 Timothy 3

    We are seeing much of this today, (it’s been going on for some time) hence this blog post. It isn’t just family, it’s about God, loving HIM and loving our families and neighbors.

    Some families still hold great love and affection for one another, especially those who are Believers in Christ.

    This is a sad discussion, one that tugs at the ♥

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    That’s exactly my question. Since when is the generation of hippies, the counterculture, sexual promiscuity, etc., the “obedient” and “compliant” generation?

    Timothy Leary, Ken Kesey, Gloria Steinem, not Boomers. The big names of the “revolution” weren’t Boomers. The poor suckers who followed them and got burned, Boomers.

    There was always some degree of hippie/bohemian counterculture types. In the case of the Boomers that stuff was sold to them. It didn’t come from them. Their elders (not necessarily their parents) promoted it to them and they followed along. Druggies were counter culture types from the previous generations and Boomers were the followers. Where did the no-smoking campaigns come from? To me that was a Boomer initiative. That is the kind of Boomer counter culture. Boomers were more of the war on drugs types. Who de-criminalized marijuana? The generation before the Boomers. Who slammed the coke and crack dealers and has presided over the highest incarceration rates in history many on drug charges? The Boomers. Who instituted no-fault divorce? Generation before the Boomers. Who picked the radicals to dominate academia? The generations before the boomers. Who sends their kids to Christian colleges? The Boomers.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/24/AR2006032401280.html

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    That’s exactly my question. Since when is the generation of hippies, the counterculture, sexual promiscuity, etc., the “obedient” and “compliant” generation?

    Timothy Leary, Ken Kesey, Gloria Steinem, not Boomers. The big names of the “revolution” weren’t Boomers. The poor suckers who followed them and got burned, Boomers.

    There was always some degree of hippie/bohemian counterculture types. In the case of the Boomers that stuff was sold to them. It didn’t come from them. Their elders (not necessarily their parents) promoted it to them and they followed along. Druggies were counter culture types from the previous generations and Boomers were the followers. Where did the no-smoking campaigns come from? To me that was a Boomer initiative. That is the kind of Boomer counter culture. Boomers were more of the war on drugs types. Who de-criminalized marijuana? The generation before the Boomers. Who slammed the coke and crack dealers and has presided over the highest incarceration rates in history many on drug charges? The Boomers. Who instituted no-fault divorce? Generation before the Boomers. Who picked the radicals to dominate academia? The generations before the boomers. Who sends their kids to Christian colleges? The Boomers.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/24/AR2006032401280.html

  • kerner

    sg:

    Wow! I feel so much better! ;) A

  • kerner

    sg:

    Wow! I feel so much better! ;) A

  • Klasie Kraalogies

    So sg, are you a boomer? That would explain the ladies’ protesting ;)

    Actually, it would be interesting to see who belongs in which ‘generation’ here, given their comments above. I already said I’m a late Gen X’er (’74). So, how about it?

    Kerner? Cincinnatus? Sg? Grace? Tom I know is an old f..ogey :) (threescore and ten, and then some?) Who else?

  • Klasie Kraalogies

    So sg, are you a boomer? That would explain the ladies’ protesting ;)

    Actually, it would be interesting to see who belongs in which ‘generation’ here, given their comments above. I already said I’m a late Gen X’er (’74). So, how about it?

    Kerner? Cincinnatus? Sg? Grace? Tom I know is an old f..ogey :) (threescore and ten, and then some?) Who else?

  • kerner

    Actually, I DO feel better. More non-boomers:

    Jack Kerouac, Hunter S. Thompson, Jerry Garcia, Gloria Steinem and I already mentioned Charles Manson.

    Notable Boomers:

    Charles Krauthammer, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Michael Medved, David Patreus , Rand Paul, Victor Davis Hansen, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, John Roberts, and perhaps most importantly, LC-MS Pres. Matthew C. Harrison.

    On the other hand, other notable Boomers:

    Leslie van Houten and Squeaky Fromme, Sid Vicious and Johnny Rotten, John Hinkley, Jr., Jeffrey Dahmer, Michael Moore, for that matter a lot of people running Hollywood right now…

    And Boomer Politicians?

    Sarah Palin, J.C. Watts, Rahm Emmanuel, John Edwards, Mike Huckaby, Tim Pawlenty, Charles Schumer, AND

    William Jefferson Clinton, George W. Bush, Barak Obama and Mitt Romney.

    I think we may be pretty equally divided.

  • kerner

    Actually, I DO feel better. More non-boomers:

    Jack Kerouac, Hunter S. Thompson, Jerry Garcia, Gloria Steinem and I already mentioned Charles Manson.

    Notable Boomers:

    Charles Krauthammer, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Michael Medved, David Patreus , Rand Paul, Victor Davis Hansen, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, John Roberts, and perhaps most importantly, LC-MS Pres. Matthew C. Harrison.

    On the other hand, other notable Boomers:

    Leslie van Houten and Squeaky Fromme, Sid Vicious and Johnny Rotten, John Hinkley, Jr., Jeffrey Dahmer, Michael Moore, for that matter a lot of people running Hollywood right now…

    And Boomer Politicians?

    Sarah Palin, J.C. Watts, Rahm Emmanuel, John Edwards, Mike Huckaby, Tim Pawlenty, Charles Schumer, AND

    William Jefferson Clinton, George W. Bush, Barak Obama and Mitt Romney.

    I think we may be pretty equally divided.

  • kerner

    KK: If you haven’t guessed, I was born in 1955, the exact mid point year of the baby boom.

  • kerner

    KK: If you haven’t guessed, I was born in 1955, the exact mid point year of the baby boom.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “So sg, are you a boomer?”

    Nope. Gen X, 1967

    My mother is a boomer. Dad was older, not a boomer.

    My point is basically that if you are going to blame people, blame for the stuff they actually did. Boomers followed along a little too uncritically at times. The previous generation is characterized by its challenging stuff while at once unrecognized for it, yet the boomers are blamed even though they were more chorus than actors.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “So sg, are you a boomer?”

    Nope. Gen X, 1967

    My mother is a boomer. Dad was older, not a boomer.

    My point is basically that if you are going to blame people, blame for the stuff they actually did. Boomers followed along a little too uncritically at times. The previous generation is characterized by its challenging stuff while at once unrecognized for it, yet the boomers are blamed even though they were more chorus than actors.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    OMG! I totally forgot, my saint of a husband is a boomer. That must be the genesis of my boomer apology!
    :D

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    OMG! I totally forgot, my saint of a husband is a boomer. That must be the genesis of my boomer apology!
    :D

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Also not boomers: John Tietjen (1928) and his Seminex buddies, although many of the hapless seminary students (followers) were boomers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tietjen

    So the huge baby boom generation were more foot soldiers for the lame ideas of those who were leading them, the Greatest and Silent generations.

    So, Mr. Silent generation, Rev. Tietjen, only had such huge impact due to the youth, enthusiasm, trust, and limited discernment of boomer students. Perhaps without the Boomers, they would have been silent.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Also not boomers: John Tietjen (1928) and his Seminex buddies, although many of the hapless seminary students (followers) were boomers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tietjen

    So the huge baby boom generation were more foot soldiers for the lame ideas of those who were leading them, the Greatest and Silent generations.

    So, Mr. Silent generation, Rev. Tietjen, only had such huge impact due to the youth, enthusiasm, trust, and limited discernment of boomer students. Perhaps without the Boomers, they would have been silent.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    There is a book called Generations that discusses cycles of generational dynamics:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_(book)

    Alone that line of thinking right now those who are having more children will have a huge impact like the Silent generation had through their children, the Boomers.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    There is a book called Generations that discusses cycles of generational dynamics:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_(book)

    Alone that line of thinking right now those who are having more children will have a huge impact like the Silent generation had through their children, the Boomers.

  • Grace

    I remember well, those who’s parents dabbled in the ‘hippy era. They were far and few between. The universities who housed the ‘hippies, were Berkeley, Santa Cruz and a few others. The rest were Wisconsin, NYU, Columbia and others –

    When I was really young, hippies were not accepted, they stunk, they smoked dope, and most certainly were in the minority .. they were misfits. They had few goals, except to get high, and pretend they were more intelligent then their peers. It was a joke among the younger crowd. As I grew up, I was shocked to hear that people actually thought that the late 60′s, 70′s were the bedrock for the hippies. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    All the music they concocted was not readily accepted by those who were goal oriented or educated. I have one cousin who decided about 20 years ago, she wanted to be a hippie. We all laughed – until she really tried to emulate the era, which turned out to be a fiasco. Watching her show up at family functions was embarrassing, and so was her behavior. Her parents and grandparents were shocked. She finally straightened out, but the past shows.

    Hippies were never ‘main stream – that’s something very few understand. California is a melting pot for all sorts of people, music, style, film and sexuality. The ‘Hippie era is overblown, perhaps because of the Beatles, and a few dozen other groups – HOWEVER, that does not cover the mass population. They were in the minority, they were not accepted, not just because of the way they dressed, and smelled, but because they had no respect for law and order, parents, the United States, and God ALMIGHTY .. and they used drugs as a crutch.

    I remember being very young and visiting San Francisco (we did so every year, we had family there) we drove down Haight Ashbury, what a dump- it was littered with everything, people handing out flyers about every piece of conceivable nonsense, so stoned they forgot it was cold and wore clothes with next to nothing underneath, making a joke of themselves. Loud music, guitars in abundance, no one knowing much of what anyone else was saying or singing. Thankfully it was just a short piece of San Francisco.

    While the rest of the youth learned to sail in the summer, attend university and grad school, becoming professionals, be it pastors, lawyers, doctors, teachers, and many other fields, the hippie era vanished. They didn’t live where the rest resided, nor did they associate with one another.

    One of the wonderful things that happened during that time was Calvary Chapel Church. Pastor Chuck Smith started the whole thing down at Huntington Beach. The hippies were drawn to to what he preached, they found out there was something else, they heard about the Savior, the one who died for the sins of the world. The knew they were lost…. that’s the first step in understanding; to know one is lost in their sins. One by one, and dozens upon hundreds realized how lost they really were, understanding that only Christ could save them. They Believed by the hundreds in Christ our LORD, that was the greatest thing that happened. I wasn’t there, but I know one thing, the LORD moved in that area, and those who had been stoned for years, and lived the hippie lifestyle came to believe in the LIVING God our Savior.

  • Grace

    I remember well, those who’s parents dabbled in the ‘hippy era. They were far and few between. The universities who housed the ‘hippies, were Berkeley, Santa Cruz and a few others. The rest were Wisconsin, NYU, Columbia and others –

    When I was really young, hippies were not accepted, they stunk, they smoked dope, and most certainly were in the minority .. they were misfits. They had few goals, except to get high, and pretend they were more intelligent then their peers. It was a joke among the younger crowd. As I grew up, I was shocked to hear that people actually thought that the late 60′s, 70′s were the bedrock for the hippies. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    All the music they concocted was not readily accepted by those who were goal oriented or educated. I have one cousin who decided about 20 years ago, she wanted to be a hippie. We all laughed – until she really tried to emulate the era, which turned out to be a fiasco. Watching her show up at family functions was embarrassing, and so was her behavior. Her parents and grandparents were shocked. She finally straightened out, but the past shows.

    Hippies were never ‘main stream – that’s something very few understand. California is a melting pot for all sorts of people, music, style, film and sexuality. The ‘Hippie era is overblown, perhaps because of the Beatles, and a few dozen other groups – HOWEVER, that does not cover the mass population. They were in the minority, they were not accepted, not just because of the way they dressed, and smelled, but because they had no respect for law and order, parents, the United States, and God ALMIGHTY .. and they used drugs as a crutch.

    I remember being very young and visiting San Francisco (we did so every year, we had family there) we drove down Haight Ashbury, what a dump- it was littered with everything, people handing out flyers about every piece of conceivable nonsense, so stoned they forgot it was cold and wore clothes with next to nothing underneath, making a joke of themselves. Loud music, guitars in abundance, no one knowing much of what anyone else was saying or singing. Thankfully it was just a short piece of San Francisco.

    While the rest of the youth learned to sail in the summer, attend university and grad school, becoming professionals, be it pastors, lawyers, doctors, teachers, and many other fields, the hippie era vanished. They didn’t live where the rest resided, nor did they associate with one another.

    One of the wonderful things that happened during that time was Calvary Chapel Church. Pastor Chuck Smith started the whole thing down at Huntington Beach. The hippies were drawn to to what he preached, they found out there was something else, they heard about the Savior, the one who died for the sins of the world. The knew they were lost…. that’s the first step in understanding; to know one is lost in their sins. One by one, and dozens upon hundreds realized how lost they really were, understanding that only Christ could save them. They Believed by the hundreds in Christ our LORD, that was the greatest thing that happened. I wasn’t there, but I know one thing, the LORD moved in that area, and those who had been stoned for years, and lived the hippie lifestyle came to believe in the LIVING God our Savior.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    @ 40 Good comment. Very true. One day when I was 15, I was talking to my mother and a high school friend about hippies and the 60′s. They both agreed that hippies were <1%. They just got a lot of coverage for being weird so it seemed like there were a lot of them, but like Occupy Wall Street, there really aren't many like that. Their presence or existence is magnified by our ability to see them because of technology. If it weren't for mass communication, they would probably have been almost completely ignored as the tiny minority they were. Kind of like people have always just mostly ignored the village idiot.

    Anyway, very true about how Calvary Chapel started. I think I heard about that a couple of months ago about how the man who started it was out in California and it was kind of like one thing just led to another. I seem to remember part of the story involved picking up a hitchhiker/guy stranded due to car trouble (?). Now I wish I could remember the rest of it. Seemed pretty serendipitous.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    @ 40 Good comment. Very true. One day when I was 15, I was talking to my mother and a high school friend about hippies and the 60′s. They both agreed that hippies were <1%. They just got a lot of coverage for being weird so it seemed like there were a lot of them, but like Occupy Wall Street, there really aren't many like that. Their presence or existence is magnified by our ability to see them because of technology. If it weren't for mass communication, they would probably have been almost completely ignored as the tiny minority they were. Kind of like people have always just mostly ignored the village idiot.

    Anyway, very true about how Calvary Chapel started. I think I heard about that a couple of months ago about how the man who started it was out in California and it was kind of like one thing just led to another. I seem to remember part of the story involved picking up a hitchhiker/guy stranded due to car trouble (?). Now I wish I could remember the rest of it. Seemed pretty serendipitous.

  • nativetxn

    I was at the University of Texas in the late 1960′s-never took part in a protest, never tried drugs or alcohol, just tried to pass my classes:)

  • nativetxn

    I was at the University of Texas in the late 1960′s-never took part in a protest, never tried drugs or alcohol, just tried to pass my classes:)

  • Michael B.

    @sg@41
    “They both agreed that hippies were <1%"

    Yes, but there's probably a lot more people that would qualify as "hippie-lite". Certainly that culture touched many more people than those who would call themselves hippies.

  • Michael B.

    @sg@41
    “They both agreed that hippies were <1%"

    Yes, but there's probably a lot more people that would qualify as "hippie-lite". Certainly that culture touched many more people than those who would call themselves hippies.

  • kerner

    Michael B.

    I think you have something there. From what I remember of the hippie movement, it combined left-wing politics and eastern new age mysticism with “free love” and the use of illegal intoxicants. After awhile (I would argue that the Kent State deaths had a lot to do with it) a lot of the “hippies lite” figured out that they didn’t need left wing politics and eastern new age mysticism to have promiscuous sex and use a lot of drugs. While the politial ans mystical aspects of the movement have faded considerable, the sex and drugs are still with us.

  • kerner

    Michael B.

    I think you have something there. From what I remember of the hippie movement, it combined left-wing politics and eastern new age mysticism with “free love” and the use of illegal intoxicants. After awhile (I would argue that the Kent State deaths had a lot to do with it) a lot of the “hippies lite” figured out that they didn’t need left wing politics and eastern new age mysticism to have promiscuous sex and use a lot of drugs. While the politial ans mystical aspects of the movement have faded considerable, the sex and drugs are still with us.

  • Michael B.

    @Kerner@44

    “a lot of the “hippies lite” figured out that they didn’t need left wing politics and eastern new age mysticism to have promiscuous sex and use a lot of drugs. ”

    Agreed. I suspect that youths of say a Bill O’Reilly and a Glenn Beck are not all that different from their liberal counterparts.

  • Michael B.

    @Kerner@44

    “a lot of the “hippies lite” figured out that they didn’t need left wing politics and eastern new age mysticism to have promiscuous sex and use a lot of drugs. ”

    Agreed. I suspect that youths of say a Bill O’Reilly and a Glenn Beck are not all that different from their liberal counterparts.

  • b-rw

    I know it’s late, but have been thinking about this a lot lately and just saw this. I read through this and find myself agreeing with “sg” a lot. I am on the tail end of the boomer generation (Born 1963.)

    Mad Men has appealed to me a lot and I (used) to feel guilty for liking it… until I saw this:

    FORGIVING DON DRAPER
    http://www.mbird.com/2011/02/forgiving-don-draper/

    After I read it, I realized Mad Men was actually kinda therapeutic for me. It helped me understand my parents better, the things they value that I don’t & why I feel disconnected from them at time.

    Wonder what you think. :)

  • b-rw

    I know it’s late, but have been thinking about this a lot lately and just saw this. I read through this and find myself agreeing with “sg” a lot. I am on the tail end of the boomer generation (Born 1963.)

    Mad Men has appealed to me a lot and I (used) to feel guilty for liking it… until I saw this:

    FORGIVING DON DRAPER
    http://www.mbird.com/2011/02/forgiving-don-draper/

    After I read it, I realized Mad Men was actually kinda therapeutic for me. It helped me understand my parents better, the things they value that I don’t & why I feel disconnected from them at time.

    Wonder what you think. :)

  • rebecca w

    *wonder what you think of the article that is …

  • rebecca w

    *wonder what you think of the article that is …


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