Cardinal Dolan’s prayer for the Democrats

Cardinal Timothy Dolan, Archbishop of New York, gave the closing prayer at the Republican convention, so, in an act of political balance, agreed to give the closing prayer at the Democratic convention also.  But look what he said!

We beseech you, almighty God to shed your grace on this noble experiment in ordered liberty, which began with the confident assertion of inalienable rights bestowed upon us by you: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Thus do we praise you for the gift of life. Grant us the courage to defend it, life, without which no other rights are secure. We ask your benediction on those waiting to be born, that they may be welcomed and protected. Strengthen our sick and our elders waiting to see your holy face at life’s end, that they may be accompanied by true compassion and cherished with the dignity due those who are infirm and fragile.

We praise and thank you for the gift of liberty. May this land of the free never lack those brave enough to defend our basic freedoms. Renew in all our people a profound respect for religious liberty: the first, most cherished freedom bequeathed upon us at our Founding. May our liberty be in harmony with truth; freedom ordered in goodness and justice. Help us live our freedom in faith, hope, and love. Make us ever-grateful for those who, for over two centuries, have given their lives in freedom’s defense; we commend their noble souls to your eternal care, as even now we beg the protection of your mighty arm upon our men and women in uniform.

We praise and thank you for granting us the life and the liberty by which we can pursue happiness. Show us anew that happiness is found only in respecting the laws of nature and of nature’s God. Empower us with your grace so that we might resist the temptation to replace the moral law with idols of our own making, or to remake those institutions you have given us for the nurturing of life and community.

See the whole text of his prayer here:   Cardinal Dolan Admonishes Democrats on Abortion, Religious Liberty | LifeNews.com.

Pro-life, pro-religious liberty (alluding to the controversy about mandated birth control and abortifacient coverage, which he has been crusading against), anti-moral relativism, anti-remaking institutions (as in gay marriage)!

Cardinal Dolan is a jovial guy, as I remember when he was Archbishop of Milwaukee.  (I actually met him.  Interesting fact:  He is the brother of Bob Dolen, a comical radio talk show host in that fair city.)  But what a strong and fearless witness, rebuke, and prayer for repentance.

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    A respectable job. Now, if he’d just get the gospel right along with the Roman Catholic church as a whole…

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    A respectable job. Now, if he’d just get the gospel right along with the Roman Catholic church as a whole…

  • Pete

    Preach it, brother.. uh, Father.. ?

  • Pete

    Preach it, brother.. uh, Father.. ?

  • helen

    What Pete said! Amen.

  • helen

    What Pete said! Amen.

  • Michael B.

    “But what a strong and fearless witness, rebuke, and prayer for repentance.”

    A prayer of repentance for other people. He himself is pro-life and anti-gay marriage. Is it not like an athletic person addressing obese people and saying, “forgive us lord for neglecting our bodies. We have eaten too much and exercised too little, and forsaken your commandment against gluttony.” It just drips with condescension.

  • Michael B.

    “But what a strong and fearless witness, rebuke, and prayer for repentance.”

    A prayer of repentance for other people. He himself is pro-life and anti-gay marriage. Is it not like an athletic person addressing obese people and saying, “forgive us lord for neglecting our bodies. We have eaten too much and exercised too little, and forsaken your commandment against gluttony.” It just drips with condescension.

  • Bryan Lindemood

    A good prayer. I like much of it. Its true, it would have been made even better with a petition also for church reform. Pureness of doctrine and life are needed in both kingdoms.

  • Bryan Lindemood

    A good prayer. I like much of it. Its true, it would have been made even better with a petition also for church reform. Pureness of doctrine and life are needed in both kingdoms.

  • Tom Hering

    I kind of like what Cardinal Dolan said about immigration in his closing prayer at the Republican convention:

    Bless those families whose ancestors arrived on these shores generations ago, as well as those families that have come recently, to build a better future while weaving their lives into the rich tapestry of America …

    We ask for the grace to stand in solidarity with all those who suffer. May we strive to include your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, in the production and prosperity of a people so richly blessed …

    We pray for all those who seek honest labor, as we thank you for the spirit of generosity to those in need with which you so richly blessed this nation.</blockquote

    I guess no one on the right noticed that rebuke, eh? :-D

  • Tom Hering

    I kind of like what Cardinal Dolan said about immigration in his closing prayer at the Republican convention:

    Bless those families whose ancestors arrived on these shores generations ago, as well as those families that have come recently, to build a better future while weaving their lives into the rich tapestry of America …

    We ask for the grace to stand in solidarity with all those who suffer. May we strive to include your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, in the production and prosperity of a people so richly blessed …

    We pray for all those who seek honest labor, as we thank you for the spirit of generosity to those in need with which you so richly blessed this nation.</blockquote

    I guess no one on the right noticed that rebuke, eh? :-D

  • Morgan

    @ Michael B
    You’re right, it is a bit like that. But if someone with entirely different views had given that same prayer, you may well have said, “What a hypocrite!”

    You can’t really have it both ways. Whatever the views – right or wrong – of the one praying, it doesn’t mean the prayer is invalid. Right?

    I can pray (collectively, for the nation) for us to, say, respect our leaders and also those around us. Can I not pray that prayer if I respect both? Am I condescending?

  • Morgan

    @ Michael B
    You’re right, it is a bit like that. But if someone with entirely different views had given that same prayer, you may well have said, “What a hypocrite!”

    You can’t really have it both ways. Whatever the views – right or wrong – of the one praying, it doesn’t mean the prayer is invalid. Right?

    I can pray (collectively, for the nation) for us to, say, respect our leaders and also those around us. Can I not pray that prayer if I respect both? Am I condescending?

  • helen

    We pray for all those who seek honest labor, as we thank you for the spirit of generosity to those in need with which you so richly blessed this nation.
    I guess no one on the right noticed that rebuke, eh?

    As a legal immigrant’s daughter, I like the honest part.

  • helen

    We pray for all those who seek honest labor, as we thank you for the spirit of generosity to those in need with which you so richly blessed this nation.
    I guess no one on the right noticed that rebuke, eh?

    As a legal immigrant’s daughter, I like the honest part.

  • DonS

    Amen.

    Tom @ 6, it wasn’t a rebuke. Republicans do not oppose legal immigration, just the utter disregard for the law which is sanctioned and encouraged by our government today at a great cost to those who are trying to immigrate legally.

  • DonS

    Amen.

    Tom @ 6, it wasn’t a rebuke. Republicans do not oppose legal immigration, just the utter disregard for the law which is sanctioned and encouraged by our government today at a great cost to those who are trying to immigrate legally.

  • Matthew

    J. Dean@1 and Brian @5

    Amen. But why would one pray for church reform and pureness of doctrine at the Democratic National Convention? I don’t see the connection between opposing those who favor the wanton slaughter of the unborn and the overthrow of God’s divine institution of marriage and the errors of Rome on the gospel.

  • Matthew

    J. Dean@1 and Brian @5

    Amen. But why would one pray for church reform and pureness of doctrine at the Democratic National Convention? I don’t see the connection between opposing those who favor the wanton slaughter of the unborn and the overthrow of God’s divine institution of marriage and the errors of Rome on the gospel.

  • Tom Hering

    Don @ 9, you don’t have to see it as a rebuke if you don’t want to. (I’m not surprised you don’t want to.) But why did Cardinal Dolan find it necessary to say some of the same things in his Republican prayer that he said in his Democratic prayer? And why are they a rebuke and a witness in one case, but not in the other? And why, with the following, did he commend the Democrats in a way he didn’t commend the Republicans?

    Bless all here present [at the DNC], and all across this great land, who work hard for the day when a greater portion of your justice, and a more ample measure of your care for the poor and suffering, may prevail in these United States.

    :-D

  • Tom Hering

    Don @ 9, you don’t have to see it as a rebuke if you don’t want to. (I’m not surprised you don’t want to.) But why did Cardinal Dolan find it necessary to say some of the same things in his Republican prayer that he said in his Democratic prayer? And why are they a rebuke and a witness in one case, but not in the other? And why, with the following, did he commend the Democrats in a way he didn’t commend the Republicans?

    Bless all here present [at the DNC], and all across this great land, who work hard for the day when a greater portion of your justice, and a more ample measure of your care for the poor and suffering, may prevail in these United States.

    :-D

  • DonS

    Tom @ 11: You should look at the full texts of each invocation, for example here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/cardinal-dolan-benediction-rnc-dnc_n_1861440.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

    Context helps a lot.

    As for the RNC convention, I see neither rebuke nor praise. I see a simple invocation. Your quote @ 6 is seriously out of context — ellipses can be mischievous fellows ;-)

    Looking at the full text of the RNC invocation, the first paragraph, after a benediction upon both those yet to be born and on those about to die, he says: “Bless those families whose ancestors arrived on these shores generations ago, as well as those families that have come recently, to build a better future while weaving their lives into the rich tapestry of America.” This sentence certainly isn’t a rebuke. No one disagrees with this, and Republicans are particularly interested in ensuring that newer immigrants weave their lives into the tapestry of American society (the melting pot), rather than remaining separate and aligned with their former homelands.

    Then, he moves into a prayer for those suffering because of the storm still occurring at that time. In the context of praying for the suffering, he says “We lift up to your loving care those afflicted by the recent storms and drought and fire. We ask for the grace to stand in solidarity with all those who suffer. May we strive to include your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, in the production and prosperity of a people so richly blessed.” To that, I and almost all Republicans I know of say “AMEN”! Certainly not a rebuke. The bolded portion, which provides all of the context, was conveniently left out of the portion you quoted.

    Finally, four paragraphs later (that’s a lot of ellipses!), he says, “We pray for all those who seek honest labor, as we thank you for the spirit of generosity to those in need with which you so richly blessed this nation.”

    Um, this is Republican doctrine. Providing opportunity for those who seek honest labor. And study after study demonstrate that conservatives are far more generous, charitably, than are liberals, as respective groups, by the way. Certainly not a rebuke.

    Finally:

    And why, with the following, did he commend the Democrats in a way he didn’t commend the Republicans?

    Bless all here present [at the DNC], and all across this great land, who work hard for the day when a greater portion of your justice, and a more ample measure of your care for the poor and suffering, may prevail in these United States.

    My guess, since this passage came in his initial paragraph, before he put the hammer down on the culture of death which pervades the Democratic platform and policies today, is he was softening them up for the blow. You know, give a compliment before you criticize ;-)

  • DonS

    Tom @ 11: You should look at the full texts of each invocation, for example here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/cardinal-dolan-benediction-rnc-dnc_n_1861440.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

    Context helps a lot.

    As for the RNC convention, I see neither rebuke nor praise. I see a simple invocation. Your quote @ 6 is seriously out of context — ellipses can be mischievous fellows ;-)

    Looking at the full text of the RNC invocation, the first paragraph, after a benediction upon both those yet to be born and on those about to die, he says: “Bless those families whose ancestors arrived on these shores generations ago, as well as those families that have come recently, to build a better future while weaving their lives into the rich tapestry of America.” This sentence certainly isn’t a rebuke. No one disagrees with this, and Republicans are particularly interested in ensuring that newer immigrants weave their lives into the tapestry of American society (the melting pot), rather than remaining separate and aligned with their former homelands.

    Then, he moves into a prayer for those suffering because of the storm still occurring at that time. In the context of praying for the suffering, he says “We lift up to your loving care those afflicted by the recent storms and drought and fire. We ask for the grace to stand in solidarity with all those who suffer. May we strive to include your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, in the production and prosperity of a people so richly blessed.” To that, I and almost all Republicans I know of say “AMEN”! Certainly not a rebuke. The bolded portion, which provides all of the context, was conveniently left out of the portion you quoted.

    Finally, four paragraphs later (that’s a lot of ellipses!), he says, “We pray for all those who seek honest labor, as we thank you for the spirit of generosity to those in need with which you so richly blessed this nation.”

    Um, this is Republican doctrine. Providing opportunity for those who seek honest labor. And study after study demonstrate that conservatives are far more generous, charitably, than are liberals, as respective groups, by the way. Certainly not a rebuke.

    Finally:

    And why, with the following, did he commend the Democrats in a way he didn’t commend the Republicans?

    Bless all here present [at the DNC], and all across this great land, who work hard for the day when a greater portion of your justice, and a more ample measure of your care for the poor and suffering, may prevail in these United States.

    My guess, since this passage came in his initial paragraph, before he put the hammer down on the culture of death which pervades the Democratic platform and policies today, is he was softening them up for the blow. You know, give a compliment before you criticize ;-)

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Seems pretty obvious to me that Cardinal Dolan, aware that he was speaking at both conventions, offered up prayers that were alike in many passages, but also with sections that were specifically addressed to the particular conventions.

    One can, of course, merely play partisan politics and only hear the cardinal’s rebuke of The Other Team, but that would seem myopic. It’s clear the cardinal had criticisms to offer of both parties. Which shouldn’t surprise anyone. Catholicism does, as well. Tom (@6) highlighted the most pointed parts already.

    The more interesting question to me is: when did Catholicism become our nation’s political religion? This seems like a change in the past 100 years, certainly — maybe even more recently.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Seems pretty obvious to me that Cardinal Dolan, aware that he was speaking at both conventions, offered up prayers that were alike in many passages, but also with sections that were specifically addressed to the particular conventions.

    One can, of course, merely play partisan politics and only hear the cardinal’s rebuke of The Other Team, but that would seem myopic. It’s clear the cardinal had criticisms to offer of both parties. Which shouldn’t surprise anyone. Catholicism does, as well. Tom (@6) highlighted the most pointed parts already.

    The more interesting question to me is: when did Catholicism become our nation’s political religion? This seems like a change in the past 100 years, certainly — maybe even more recently.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Also, I really hope it was an error when Cardinal Dolan said, at the RNC, “Almighty God, father of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus”. That seems a bit theologically awkward.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Also, I really hope it was an error when Cardinal Dolan said, at the RNC, “Almighty God, father of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus”. That seems a bit theologically awkward.

  • Steve Billingsley

    tODD @ 13
    “The more interesting question to me is: when did Catholicism become our nation’s political religion?”

    Pretty interesting question. I would say it has been in the last 40-50 years. I have a few theories. (tentative, more like scattershot thoughts than theories)

    1. Mainline Protestantism has fallen off a cliff in lots of ways. The void left in the public square has been filled increasingly by Evangelicals and Mormons (yeah, I know – strange combination) and also by Catholics.
    2. Pre Roe v. Wade – abortion was not the political football/litmus test/third rail that it is today. Catholicism has been the most consistent representative in Christianity in vocally opposing abortion since day 1 of the post Roe v. Wade landscape. It took about 20 years but the parties essentially sorted themselves into pro-abortion and anti-abortion parties making it not only a moral issue but a partisan political one.
    3. Given the splintered nature of Evangelicalism and Mainline Protestantism, Catholicism is the largest group with a coherent history and a fairly well developed stream of political thought left standing.

    Not sure how compelling any of those theories are – but I think there is something there.

  • Steve Billingsley

    tODD @ 13
    “The more interesting question to me is: when did Catholicism become our nation’s political religion?”

    Pretty interesting question. I would say it has been in the last 40-50 years. I have a few theories. (tentative, more like scattershot thoughts than theories)

    1. Mainline Protestantism has fallen off a cliff in lots of ways. The void left in the public square has been filled increasingly by Evangelicals and Mormons (yeah, I know – strange combination) and also by Catholics.
    2. Pre Roe v. Wade – abortion was not the political football/litmus test/third rail that it is today. Catholicism has been the most consistent representative in Christianity in vocally opposing abortion since day 1 of the post Roe v. Wade landscape. It took about 20 years but the parties essentially sorted themselves into pro-abortion and anti-abortion parties making it not only a moral issue but a partisan political one.
    3. Given the splintered nature of Evangelicalism and Mainline Protestantism, Catholicism is the largest group with a coherent history and a fairly well developed stream of political thought left standing.

    Not sure how compelling any of those theories are – but I think there is something there.

  • fjsteve

    tODD, #14

    Perhaps he felt that Mary’s workload was getting too big and they needed more co-redemptices.

  • fjsteve

    tODD, #14

    Perhaps he felt that Mary’s workload was getting too big and they needed more co-redemptices.

  • Bryan Lindemood

    Matthew @10 “But why would one pray for church reform and pureness of doctrine at the Democratic National Convention?”

    I just agree with Michael B. that the prayer would sound less condescending in tone, it, calling for political moral reform, if Cardinal Dolan had taken more of a “just-like-we-need-to-call-ourselves-to-ongoing-churchly-moral-reform-see-we’re-not-so-unlike-each-other” brotherly admonition tone. I think that would go over better with most folks who lean toward the Democratic party or who are not Roman Catholic. Just my opinion.

  • Bryan Lindemood

    Matthew @10 “But why would one pray for church reform and pureness of doctrine at the Democratic National Convention?”

    I just agree with Michael B. that the prayer would sound less condescending in tone, it, calling for political moral reform, if Cardinal Dolan had taken more of a “just-like-we-need-to-call-ourselves-to-ongoing-churchly-moral-reform-see-we’re-not-so-unlike-each-other” brotherly admonition tone. I think that would go over better with most folks who lean toward the Democratic party or who are not Roman Catholic. Just my opinion.

  • Bryan Lindemood

    (Plus, it would be nice to hear a Roman Catholic Bishop call for Doctrinal Reform as well)

  • Bryan Lindemood

    (Plus, it would be nice to hear a Roman Catholic Bishop call for Doctrinal Reform as well)

  • Tom Hering

    Don, it’s just obvious to me that Dolan wasn’t speaking as a Republican to Republicans, or as a Republican to Democrats, but as a Catholic to both. This at least allows for the possibility of rebukes to both parties. Especially as (it’s also obvious to me) he meant his prayers to be heard by men more than God. Even Dr. Veith describes the words spoken before the DNC as “a strong and fearless witness, rebuke” before he describes them as a “prayer for repentance.”

  • Tom Hering

    Don, it’s just obvious to me that Dolan wasn’t speaking as a Republican to Republicans, or as a Republican to Democrats, but as a Catholic to both. This at least allows for the possibility of rebukes to both parties. Especially as (it’s also obvious to me) he meant his prayers to be heard by men more than God. Even Dr. Veith describes the words spoken before the DNC as “a strong and fearless witness, rebuke” before he describes them as a “prayer for repentance.”

  • Tom Hering

    Oh, and yes, I read the full text of both prayers before commenting.

  • Tom Hering

    Oh, and yes, I read the full text of both prayers before commenting.

  • DonS

    Tom @ 19, 20: Agreed. Dolan was speaking as a non-partisan Catholic to both conventions. It’s just that it is clear beyond measure, not just from the prayer, but from the entire context of Catholic/Democratic party relations, that his DNC prayer was a reminder to the activists at the convention, who had just spent an inordinate time celebrating the DNC’s support of abortion, that life is precious above all, and they’d best not forget it. I know, from the work I’ve done in pro-life ministry, that we most often work alongside devoted Catholics. I also know that those same Catholics, who mostly all are former staunch Democrats, are brokenhearted over the turn their historic party has taken over the last 40 years away from life, and away from traditional Catholic values toward things like support of gay marriage.

    Similarly, I believe Dolan meant, in a heartfelt way, his opening line to the DNC, concerning the concern of those present for the poor. The reason why most Catholics are historically Democrats is because they agree with the notion that government action is an (the) appropriate way of ministering to the poor. Those of us who are Christian and Republican fervently disagree with this interpretation, believing that Christ’s call to assist the poor was to the church, not secular government, but Catholics tend to be big on hierchical government, so they don’t quite see eye to eye with our interpretation.

    I allow for the possibility that Dolan was chiding the RNC on illegal immigration, as well. But, he didn’t call out illegal immigration, and I’ve already explained why I don’t think he was, nor why the most logical interpretation of his prayer, taking it at face value, does not lead one to that conclusion. But, I don’t have access to his mind, and I don’t know for sure what his intended meaning was, obviously.

    As for your comment that you read the full text of both prayers before commenting, then why in the heck did you quote the RNC prayer so badly out of context?

  • DonS

    Tom @ 19, 20: Agreed. Dolan was speaking as a non-partisan Catholic to both conventions. It’s just that it is clear beyond measure, not just from the prayer, but from the entire context of Catholic/Democratic party relations, that his DNC prayer was a reminder to the activists at the convention, who had just spent an inordinate time celebrating the DNC’s support of abortion, that life is precious above all, and they’d best not forget it. I know, from the work I’ve done in pro-life ministry, that we most often work alongside devoted Catholics. I also know that those same Catholics, who mostly all are former staunch Democrats, are brokenhearted over the turn their historic party has taken over the last 40 years away from life, and away from traditional Catholic values toward things like support of gay marriage.

    Similarly, I believe Dolan meant, in a heartfelt way, his opening line to the DNC, concerning the concern of those present for the poor. The reason why most Catholics are historically Democrats is because they agree with the notion that government action is an (the) appropriate way of ministering to the poor. Those of us who are Christian and Republican fervently disagree with this interpretation, believing that Christ’s call to assist the poor was to the church, not secular government, but Catholics tend to be big on hierchical government, so they don’t quite see eye to eye with our interpretation.

    I allow for the possibility that Dolan was chiding the RNC on illegal immigration, as well. But, he didn’t call out illegal immigration, and I’ve already explained why I don’t think he was, nor why the most logical interpretation of his prayer, taking it at face value, does not lead one to that conclusion. But, I don’t have access to his mind, and I don’t know for sure what his intended meaning was, obviously.

    As for your comment that you read the full text of both prayers before commenting, then why in the heck did you quote the RNC prayer so badly out of context?

  • Michael B.

    @Morgan@7

    “it doesn’t mean the prayer is invalid.”

    Yes, it does. The prayer leader is smug, praying for forgiveness of sins of which he believes himself innocent. On the other hand, the Democrats are proud of their “sins” — they want to make legal gay marriage and abortion part of their platform. So there’s not one sincere person praying.

  • Michael B.

    @Morgan@7

    “it doesn’t mean the prayer is invalid.”

    Yes, it does. The prayer leader is smug, praying for forgiveness of sins of which he believes himself innocent. On the other hand, the Democrats are proud of their “sins” — they want to make legal gay marriage and abortion part of their platform. So there’s not one sincere person praying.

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    What concerns me more is that this man belongs to a branch of Christendom that frankly denies the gospel. Glad for him that he recognizes morality, but recognizing morality while denying the gospel is only promoting a moralistic false religion.

    Or did Luther divide from Rome in vain?

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    What concerns me more is that this man belongs to a branch of Christendom that frankly denies the gospel. Glad for him that he recognizes morality, but recognizing morality while denying the gospel is only promoting a moralistic false religion.

    Or did Luther divide from Rome in vain?

  • Daniel Gorman

    Cardinal Dolan began his RNC and DNC benedictions with no clear affirmation of the Holy Trinity and concluded in the name of the American civic god of the motto and the pledge. God does not hear such syncretistic prayers.

    O God, have mercy on the RNC, DNC, and Cardinal Dolan. Forgive their syncretistic prayers for the sake of the holy bitter sufferings and death of Jesus Christ, Your only Son, Who lives and reigns with Thee and Holy Spirit, ever One God, world without end.

  • Daniel Gorman

    Cardinal Dolan began his RNC and DNC benedictions with no clear affirmation of the Holy Trinity and concluded in the name of the American civic god of the motto and the pledge. God does not hear such syncretistic prayers.

    O God, have mercy on the RNC, DNC, and Cardinal Dolan. Forgive their syncretistic prayers for the sake of the holy bitter sufferings and death of Jesus Christ, Your only Son, Who lives and reigns with Thee and Holy Spirit, ever One God, world without end.

  • CRB

    What’s an “invocation” doing at a political convention?! Hmm?!

  • CRB

    What’s an “invocation” doing at a political convention?! Hmm?!

  • Tom Hering

    CRB @ 25, a good portion of the public wants its politicians to be religious. The Republicans figured this out decades ago. The Democrats, only recently.

  • Tom Hering

    CRB @ 25, a good portion of the public wants its politicians to be religious. The Republicans figured this out decades ago. The Democrats, only recently.

  • CRB

    Tom,

    Oh, I see. So ‘religious” means…what? If a Mo. Synod pastor got up there at each convention and said, “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” would that be an acceptable
    “Invocation”? Hmm, I wonder…

  • CRB

    Tom,

    Oh, I see. So ‘religious” means…what? If a Mo. Synod pastor got up there at each convention and said, “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” would that be an acceptable
    “Invocation”? Hmm, I wonder…

  • kerner

    For what little it’s worth , I agree with Tom to this extent. I believe cardinel Dolan at the RNC was, in a milder way, rebuking the Republicans for taking a too harsh position on illegal immigration. This doesn’t mean that he favors illegal immigration. But I believe he was saying that the Republican position could be softened to give some form of legalization to some people, as opposed to a hard line “rules are rules” approach.

  • kerner

    For what little it’s worth , I agree with Tom to this extent. I believe cardinel Dolan at the RNC was, in a milder way, rebuking the Republicans for taking a too harsh position on illegal immigration. This doesn’t mean that he favors illegal immigration. But I believe he was saying that the Republican position could be softened to give some form of legalization to some people, as opposed to a hard line “rules are rules” approach.

  • Tom Hering

    CRB @ 27, you asked why an invocation was given at a political convention. I shared my explanation. I’m not sure what you’re talking about now.

  • Tom Hering

    CRB @ 27, you asked why an invocation was given at a political convention. I shared my explanation. I’m not sure what you’re talking about now.

  • CRB

    Tom @29, I guess it’s difficult to understand in this age of “separation of church and state” rants by the political machine.
    If they really believed in separation of church and state, then why do they invite a cleric to speak to a strictly political gathering? What could a faithful pastor be allowed to say that would be of any benefit?

  • CRB

    Tom @29, I guess it’s difficult to understand in this age of “separation of church and state” rants by the political machine.
    If they really believed in separation of church and state, then why do they invite a cleric to speak to a strictly political gathering? What could a faithful pastor be allowed to say that would be of any benefit?


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