The worst call in NFL history

And my beloved Packers were the victim.

Replacement ref furor grows after Seattle Seahawks’ wild win over Green Bay Packers – ESPN.

This all comes from the regular referees being locked out.  The replacement refs have been the scourge of the whole season so far, not only blowing calls but failing to control players when fights break out.  This is the first time, though, an actual game hinged on the call, as the interception was ruled a last-minute game-winning touchdown by Seattle.

This has even Paul Ryan–who, as a Wisconsinite is a Packer fan before he is an anti-union Republican–calling for the NFL to cave to the Referee’s union at all costs.  (By the way, why isn’t the players’ union refusing to play, in support of the refs?  What happened to the solidarity of the labor movement?)

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    Robbed, plain and simple.

    I understand that officiating is not an excuse for a bad game (which Green Bay had in the first half), but you should not have to be playing against the other team AND the officials.

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    Robbed, plain and simple.

    I understand that officiating is not an excuse for a bad game (which Green Bay had in the first half), but you should not have to be playing against the other team AND the officials.

  • Dan Kempin

    It was pretty terrible, but the worst call? I don’t know. Perhaps this would be a place to remember classic blown calls in various sports.

    Remember that time when Cleveland was in contention for the playoffs and they were driving late in the game? They made a first down, snapped the ball, and then AFTER the play was underway, the ref blew it dead to review the previous play. Anyone?

    Or how about that Tigers game where a blown call by the ump cost the pitcher a perfect game. Anyone remember that?

  • Dan Kempin

    It was pretty terrible, but the worst call? I don’t know. Perhaps this would be a place to remember classic blown calls in various sports.

    Remember that time when Cleveland was in contention for the playoffs and they were driving late in the game? They made a first down, snapped the ball, and then AFTER the play was underway, the ref blew it dead to review the previous play. Anyone?

    Or how about that Tigers game where a blown call by the ump cost the pitcher a perfect game. Anyone remember that?

  • Norman Teigen

    We Minnesotans recognize the ineptitude of the replacement officials and agree that it was a blown call. Nonetheless, go Saints!

  • Norman Teigen

    We Minnesotans recognize the ineptitude of the replacement officials and agree that it was a blown call. Nonetheless, go Saints!

  • Booklover

    . . .or how about the time we were blatantly sinners and the Lord declared us righteous!

  • Booklover

    . . .or how about the time we were blatantly sinners and the Lord declared us righteous!

  • Dan Kempin

    Or how about that time in Detroit when the ref got the coin toss wrong. Remember that? You could pretty fairly say that cost the Steelers the game.

  • Dan Kempin

    Or how about that time in Detroit when the ref got the coin toss wrong. Remember that? You could pretty fairly say that cost the Steelers the game.

  • Trey

    Worse call ever? Not close. Try the tuck rule and this comes from a die hard, Broncos fan.

    Actually the replay official is a regular official. He is non-union. He made the final determination. The players union has too much money to lose to show solidarity. They have put out memos in support of the referees union.

  • Trey

    Worse call ever? Not close. Try the tuck rule and this comes from a die hard, Broncos fan.

    Actually the replay official is a regular official. He is non-union. He made the final determination. The players union has too much money to lose to show solidarity. They have put out memos in support of the referees union.

  • Random Lutheran

    As for why the players can’t/won’t refuse to play. Whether or not he was right, I heard a commentator on ESPN radio say that the NFL/NFLPA agreement specifically prohibits such action.

  • Random Lutheran

    As for why the players can’t/won’t refuse to play. Whether or not he was right, I heard a commentator on ESPN radio say that the NFL/NFLPA agreement specifically prohibits such action.

  • Cincinnatus

    I dunno, guys. Insofar as I care about pro football (which is to say, not much), this struck me as one of the worst calls I can think of. Refball is what we call it. The officials, who didn’t even agree on the call, quite literally took the game from Green Bay and gave it to Seattle. And then the NFL spat in the face of its fans in its official press release yesterday.

  • Cincinnatus

    I dunno, guys. Insofar as I care about pro football (which is to say, not much), this struck me as one of the worst calls I can think of. Refball is what we call it. The officials, who didn’t even agree on the call, quite literally took the game from Green Bay and gave it to Seattle. And then the NFL spat in the face of its fans in its official press release yesterday.

  • Joe

    The players agreed to a CBA that has very strict no-strike (and corresponding no-lock out) clauses. If they strike that would constitute a breach of the CBA and the League and clubs could start to operate in ways that are contrary to the CBA. The players would lose much more than their part-time, union brothers would gain.

    These negotiations between League and refs are at an impasse. The League’s offer included pay raises and the conversion of the ref pension into a 401k plan. The refs thought the raise was not big enough (because it was not as big as the raise they got in their 2006 CBA) and want to keep the traditional pension. The League also wanted to convert some of the refs to full time employees (NFL refs are part-timers). I want the real refs back but I don’t know anyone who is getting 2006-sized raises today and I don’t understand why part time employees get pensions at all.

    If the players are really serious about helping to end this lock out and if they are truly serious about the refs being important to player safety, the players could offer to kick a little money to get this thing done. If the players union agreed to lower each team’s salary cap by 500,000 a year, the refs could get the raises they want. (This years un-adjusted cap number is 120.6 million per team. So the if players kicked in less then .5% of their salaries one the two main issues would be off the table).

    The League is not going to cave unless and until it thinks there is serious damage being done to the brand (i.e. when a significant number fans stop watching). Remember this is a League that has absorbed three player strike since 1974 and even fielded replacement players in 1987. And in 1987 the replacement games TV viewership was only down 20%, not enough to hurt the League and the players caved.

  • Joe

    The players agreed to a CBA that has very strict no-strike (and corresponding no-lock out) clauses. If they strike that would constitute a breach of the CBA and the League and clubs could start to operate in ways that are contrary to the CBA. The players would lose much more than their part-time, union brothers would gain.

    These negotiations between League and refs are at an impasse. The League’s offer included pay raises and the conversion of the ref pension into a 401k plan. The refs thought the raise was not big enough (because it was not as big as the raise they got in their 2006 CBA) and want to keep the traditional pension. The League also wanted to convert some of the refs to full time employees (NFL refs are part-timers). I want the real refs back but I don’t know anyone who is getting 2006-sized raises today and I don’t understand why part time employees get pensions at all.

    If the players are really serious about helping to end this lock out and if they are truly serious about the refs being important to player safety, the players could offer to kick a little money to get this thing done. If the players union agreed to lower each team’s salary cap by 500,000 a year, the refs could get the raises they want. (This years un-adjusted cap number is 120.6 million per team. So the if players kicked in less then .5% of their salaries one the two main issues would be off the table).

    The League is not going to cave unless and until it thinks there is serious damage being done to the brand (i.e. when a significant number fans stop watching). Remember this is a League that has absorbed three player strike since 1974 and even fielded replacement players in 1987. And in 1987 the replacement games TV viewership was only down 20%, not enough to hurt the League and the players caved.

  • Jon

    Yeah, like, the worst call for sure. I mean, it’s not like the regular refs have never engaged in any buffoonery. Even Ed Hochuli has had his moments.

  • Jon

    Yeah, like, the worst call for sure. I mean, it’s not like the regular refs have never engaged in any buffoonery. Even Ed Hochuli has had his moments.

  • Cincinnatus

    Jon:

    Yeah, yeah. But there aren’t that many calls in the history of the NFL that have quite literally changed the outcome of the game. And I mean definitively changed the outcome of the game. Sure, you can point to botched coin tosses, etc., that may have altered the outcome, but this one actually did, right before our eyes.

    Pretty bad, especially because it followed on the heels of several other bad calls in close succession.

    In any case, fans might be more forgiving if the NFL suits weren’t such arseholes.

  • Cincinnatus

    Jon:

    Yeah, yeah. But there aren’t that many calls in the history of the NFL that have quite literally changed the outcome of the game. And I mean definitively changed the outcome of the game. Sure, you can point to botched coin tosses, etc., that may have altered the outcome, but this one actually did, right before our eyes.

    Pretty bad, especially because it followed on the heels of several other bad calls in close succession.

    In any case, fans might be more forgiving if the NFL suits weren’t such arseholes.

  • Dan Kempin

    Cincinnatus, #11,

    The botched coin toss gave possession to the wrong team in overtime, who subsequently scored and won, so that was pretty definitive, but yeah, they “redistributed” the win right before our eyes on monday night.

    You say:
    “In any case, fans might be more forgiving if the NFL suits weren’t such arseholes.”

    Right on. The NFL continues their policy of “What mistake?” with the fans. Just as in the wake of Bottlegate, they say the wrong call was the right call and you didn’t see what you saw.

    Look for the players who are speaking out to start getting fined. I don’t know if they can fine the network announcers, but they will sure be pressing them to fall in line.

  • Dan Kempin

    Cincinnatus, #11,

    The botched coin toss gave possession to the wrong team in overtime, who subsequently scored and won, so that was pretty definitive, but yeah, they “redistributed” the win right before our eyes on monday night.

    You say:
    “In any case, fans might be more forgiving if the NFL suits weren’t such arseholes.”

    Right on. The NFL continues their policy of “What mistake?” with the fans. Just as in the wake of Bottlegate, they say the wrong call was the right call and you didn’t see what you saw.

    Look for the players who are speaking out to start getting fined. I don’t know if they can fine the network announcers, but they will sure be pressing them to fall in line.

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    Somebody must have actually said their Hail Marys as that Hail Mary pass was thrown.

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    Somebody must have actually said their Hail Marys as that Hail Mary pass was thrown.

  • SKPeterson

    I thought the worst call was the preemption of a game for a broadcast of “Heidi.”

  • SKPeterson

    I thought the worst call was the preemption of a game for a broadcast of “Heidi.”

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    Booklover @ 4,

    That wasn’t a blown call (not to mention being off topic ;) )

  • http://enterthevein.wordpress.com J. Dean

    Booklover @ 4,

    That wasn’t a blown call (not to mention being off topic ;) )

  • Bob

    Paul Ryan is far from the only Rightie to call for the firing of the scab refs and to bring back the real, competent refs. Mitt Romney has, too.
    So has Aaron Rodgers, publicly.

    Even Gov. Walker in Wisconsin tweeted after the game that that’s what should take place.

    Common sense transcends political points of view.

  • Bob

    Paul Ryan is far from the only Rightie to call for the firing of the scab refs and to bring back the real, competent refs. Mitt Romney has, too.
    So has Aaron Rodgers, publicly.

    Even Gov. Walker in Wisconsin tweeted after the game that that’s what should take place.

    Common sense transcends political points of view.

  • Cincinnatus

    Bob@16:

    *sigh* Folks will politicize anything, won’t they?

    First of all, elected officials shouldn’t be commenting in their official capacity on the administrative matters of professional sports. Why does President Obama (as opposed to Mr. Obama) care about a football game? Why does Congress need to have a say in the BCS playoff structure?

    Second, whether the NFL referees are unionized or not is irrelevant to their competence. They’re competent because they’re NFL referees and not middle school referees. We can desire their services without also endorsing unions. (Of course, they’re in a private-sector union, so I doubt Walker, for example, even cares.)

  • Cincinnatus

    Bob@16:

    *sigh* Folks will politicize anything, won’t they?

    First of all, elected officials shouldn’t be commenting in their official capacity on the administrative matters of professional sports. Why does President Obama (as opposed to Mr. Obama) care about a football game? Why does Congress need to have a say in the BCS playoff structure?

    Second, whether the NFL referees are unionized or not is irrelevant to their competence. They’re competent because they’re NFL referees and not middle school referees. We can desire their services without also endorsing unions. (Of course, they’re in a private-sector union, so I doubt Walker, for example, even cares.)

  • Bob

    Turns out one of the scab refs was fired from a reffing job with the “Lingerie Football League.” Another guy had refereed high schooll and junior college games. Period.

  • Bob

    Turns out one of the scab refs was fired from a reffing job with the “Lingerie Football League.” Another guy had refereed high schooll and junior college games. Period.

  • Jon

    Cin, for someone who professes not to care that much for NFL, you sure are commenting a lot about it here.

    Also, Ed “Hocules” Hochuli has been responsible for a couple of game changing calls–Chargers/Broncos ’08 is one that comes to mind. Still peeved about that one.

  • Jon

    Cin, for someone who professes not to care that much for NFL, you sure are commenting a lot about it here.

    Also, Ed “Hocules” Hochuli has been responsible for a couple of game changing calls–Chargers/Broncos ’08 is one that comes to mind. Still peeved about that one.

  • Cincinnatus

    Jon@19:

    1) I enjoy football. I don’t love it, and I’m not “enraged” or “passionate” about Monday’s events. I just find them interesting. No need for indulging one of the most tiresome cliches on the internet: “You claim you don’t care about x, but you’re talking about it, so everything you say is invalid!” *yawn*

    2) Football takes on an importance in our culture that is nearly religious. For that reason alone, it is worth observing and critiquing. I mean, the President of the United States has taken a public stand on this issue! Here in Wisconsin, the event was the leading story on all news outlets (paper, radio, television, internet).

  • Cincinnatus

    Jon@19:

    1) I enjoy football. I don’t love it, and I’m not “enraged” or “passionate” about Monday’s events. I just find them interesting. No need for indulging one of the most tiresome cliches on the internet: “You claim you don’t care about x, but you’re talking about it, so everything you say is invalid!” *yawn*

    2) Football takes on an importance in our culture that is nearly religious. For that reason alone, it is worth observing and critiquing. I mean, the President of the United States has taken a public stand on this issue! Here in Wisconsin, the event was the leading story on all news outlets (paper, radio, television, internet).

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Maybe tomorrow we will hear about the K-State Oklahoma game.
    :D

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    Maybe tomorrow we will hear about the K-State Oklahoma game.
    :D

  • DonS

    Not even close to the worst call ever. The regular officials have made far worse calls. As Jon noted above @ 19, the Jay Cutler fumble call is widely considered to be one of the worst. This one was, at least, a tough one to call. The real problem with the Packers is that they let things come down to that last play. No way should the Seahawks, the Seahawks!!!, still have been in the game to have the chance to win on a Hail Mary.

    The Packers deserved to lose.

  • DonS

    Not even close to the worst call ever. The regular officials have made far worse calls. As Jon noted above @ 19, the Jay Cutler fumble call is widely considered to be one of the worst. This one was, at least, a tough one to call. The real problem with the Packers is that they let things come down to that last play. No way should the Seahawks, the Seahawks!!!, still have been in the game to have the chance to win on a Hail Mary.

    The Packers deserved to lose.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    DonS said (@22):

    The Packers deserved to lose.

    Well, Don, it was nice knowing you. You simply don’t say things like that in Lutheran forums, as you’re no doubt about to learn. I’m sure you have several independently-ordered hitmen coming your way as I type this.

    Oh, don’t look at me, I’m not the world’s biggest football fan. But I know better than to say things like that! ;)

    Please, Cheesehead Mafia, do not punish me for merely repeating the blasphemer’s words! I did it to chastise him!

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    DonS said (@22):

    The Packers deserved to lose.

    Well, Don, it was nice knowing you. You simply don’t say things like that in Lutheran forums, as you’re no doubt about to learn. I’m sure you have several independently-ordered hitmen coming your way as I type this.

    Oh, don’t look at me, I’m not the world’s biggest football fan. But I know better than to say things like that! ;)

    Please, Cheesehead Mafia, do not punish me for merely repeating the blasphemer’s words! I did it to chastise him!

  • DonS

    Yeah, tODD @ 23, I probably wasn’t thinking too clearly there ;-)

    Oh well, everyone please substitute the hated team of your choice for “Packers”.

  • DonS

    Yeah, tODD @ 23, I probably wasn’t thinking too clearly there ;-)

    Oh well, everyone please substitute the hated team of your choice for “Packers”.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS@22:

    I hate, haaaate that argument: “Yeah? Well maybe they shouldn’t have put themselves in a position to lose by one play!”

    Stupid, stupid argument. I’m not really a Packers fan, but the Packers deserved to win. Why? Because they had the most points, barring the ones given to the Seahawks by the referees. Simple, objective stuff. The idea that a team doesn’t deserve to win unless they earn more points than the other team and provide an indefinite buffer against official malfeasance is beyond absurd. Games are won by slim margins all the time. The fact that the Packers didn’t play all that well (they didn’t) doesn’t change the fact that they (should have) won.

    You may as well argue that the Seahawks deserved to win because, without an officiating mistake, they were only within one play of winning. Right? Right? I mean, why not just get rid of scoring altogether? Referees should just choose the winning team based upon some inscrutable logic that assesses which team played “best.” If that seems inappropriate, then what exactly is your preferred margin of victory, Don? Has a team not “really” won unless they score two touchdowns more than the other team? Three?

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS@22:

    I hate, haaaate that argument: “Yeah? Well maybe they shouldn’t have put themselves in a position to lose by one play!”

    Stupid, stupid argument. I’m not really a Packers fan, but the Packers deserved to win. Why? Because they had the most points, barring the ones given to the Seahawks by the referees. Simple, objective stuff. The idea that a team doesn’t deserve to win unless they earn more points than the other team and provide an indefinite buffer against official malfeasance is beyond absurd. Games are won by slim margins all the time. The fact that the Packers didn’t play all that well (they didn’t) doesn’t change the fact that they (should have) won.

    You may as well argue that the Seahawks deserved to win because, without an officiating mistake, they were only within one play of winning. Right? Right? I mean, why not just get rid of scoring altogether? Referees should just choose the winning team based upon some inscrutable logic that assesses which team played “best.” If that seems inappropriate, then what exactly is your preferred margin of victory, Don? Has a team not “really” won unless they score two touchdowns more than the other team? Three?

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    The play (and the ref’s call) was preordained before the foundation of the World.

    So, chill everybody.

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    The play (and the ref’s call) was preordained before the foundation of the World.

    So, chill everybody.

  • DonS

    Cincinnatus @ 25: Yeah, well we’ll just disagree on that one. If you’ve spent any time in the sports world, you know that what coaches drill into you from the first practice is that you never leave a game’s outcome up to the officials. They are human, and fallible, and they make mistakes. So, when you have two strikes, you widen your zone to ensure that you’re not relying on the umpire to call a close pitch the right way. In football, especially when you are, at least on paper, the far superior team, you play to be up two scores at the end. If the margin is less than one score, and you lose, don’t blame it on the officiating. Who knows how many calls went against the Packers earlier in the game — missed holding, missed pass interference calls, bad pass interference calls, bad spots that cost a first down, etc.

    If you lost the game, you deserved to lose. Just because the bad call happened on the last play instead of in the second quarter doesn’t change that fact.

  • DonS

    Cincinnatus @ 25: Yeah, well we’ll just disagree on that one. If you’ve spent any time in the sports world, you know that what coaches drill into you from the first practice is that you never leave a game’s outcome up to the officials. They are human, and fallible, and they make mistakes. So, when you have two strikes, you widen your zone to ensure that you’re not relying on the umpire to call a close pitch the right way. In football, especially when you are, at least on paper, the far superior team, you play to be up two scores at the end. If the margin is less than one score, and you lose, don’t blame it on the officiating. Who knows how many calls went against the Packers earlier in the game — missed holding, missed pass interference calls, bad pass interference calls, bad spots that cost a first down, etc.

    If you lost the game, you deserved to lose. Just because the bad call happened on the last play instead of in the second quarter doesn’t change that fact.

  • DonS

    @ 27, “Who knows how many calls went against the Packers earlier in the game” should, of course, be “went against the Seahawks” or “went for the Packers”.

  • DonS

    @ 27, “Who knows how many calls went against the Packers earlier in the game” should, of course, be “went against the Seahawks” or “went for the Packers”.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS:

    Hogwash.

    1) The Seahawks, on paper, weren’t vasty inferior to the Packers.

    2) A number of calls actually did go against the Packers in the second half, but whatever. Not least of which was the offensive interference by Golden Tate prior to his “catch.”

    3) Your thesis on officiating and “deserving” to win is bogus. I would be more sympathetic if, for example, the Packers had suffered from a mistaken holding call or some kind of 10-yard-penalty: those things happen of necessity in every game, and teams should and do suck it up and deal with them. But Monday’s mistake was on par with the sort of officiating malfeasance that makes many events in the Olympics (e.g., boxing) well-nigh unwatchable. In fact, it was somewhat reminiscent of the 1927 Olympic basketball final, although the problem here seems to be official incompetence rather than official corruption.

    Look, I get it: the Packers should have been winning by a wider margin. But they weren’t. How is that an excuse for official incompetence? Precisely because the game was so close, a botched call is inexcusable (if the score had been 45-7, most folks wouldn’t care). Claiming that they should have had even more points to protect them from botched calls is flippant, at best. Think of it in these terms: your notions of victory may provide ample fodder for locker room speeches, but they don’t exactly serve as a valid rubric for the professional integrity of the game. Imagine if the NFL’s official response had been thus: “Yes, well, we were incompetent. But it happens. The Packers just should have played even better to make up for our incompetence.” (Wait, that basically was their response, which is why people are upset.) That’s not acceptable, is it? The issue here isn’t whether the Packers played well but whether game-changing incompetence is in any way acceptable.

    If you lost the game, you deserved to lose. If you lost* the game, it’s not clear that you deserved it.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS:

    Hogwash.

    1) The Seahawks, on paper, weren’t vasty inferior to the Packers.

    2) A number of calls actually did go against the Packers in the second half, but whatever. Not least of which was the offensive interference by Golden Tate prior to his “catch.”

    3) Your thesis on officiating and “deserving” to win is bogus. I would be more sympathetic if, for example, the Packers had suffered from a mistaken holding call or some kind of 10-yard-penalty: those things happen of necessity in every game, and teams should and do suck it up and deal with them. But Monday’s mistake was on par with the sort of officiating malfeasance that makes many events in the Olympics (e.g., boxing) well-nigh unwatchable. In fact, it was somewhat reminiscent of the 1927 Olympic basketball final, although the problem here seems to be official incompetence rather than official corruption.

    Look, I get it: the Packers should have been winning by a wider margin. But they weren’t. How is that an excuse for official incompetence? Precisely because the game was so close, a botched call is inexcusable (if the score had been 45-7, most folks wouldn’t care). Claiming that they should have had even more points to protect them from botched calls is flippant, at best. Think of it in these terms: your notions of victory may provide ample fodder for locker room speeches, but they don’t exactly serve as a valid rubric for the professional integrity of the game. Imagine if the NFL’s official response had been thus: “Yes, well, we were incompetent. But it happens. The Packers just should have played even better to make up for our incompetence.” (Wait, that basically was their response, which is why people are upset.) That’s not acceptable, is it? The issue here isn’t whether the Packers played well but whether game-changing incompetence is in any way acceptable.

    If you lost the game, you deserved to lose. If you lost* the game, it’s not clear that you deserved it.

  • Cincinnatus

    1972* Olympic final.

  • Cincinnatus

    1972* Olympic final.

  • http://www.caryschwarz.com saddler

    According to the NFL, the “blown call” wasn’t the pass reception, it was an obvious missed call of offensive pass interference before the ball arrived. When you read the rules, they provide that in the event of two players catching the ball simultaneously, the ‘tie’ goes to the offense. Nowhere does it make the distinction of who is clutching the ball the closest to his chest. If it did, Jennings was obviously in possession of the ball. The gray area of the rules allowed this to appear to be a bad call. But, if the interference call had been made, the reception wouldn’t have mattered: game over. The interference ‘no call’ was not reviewable because no call was made.
    I like Tom Brady’s take on the whole mess: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/tom-brady-nfl-replacement-referees-doing-best_n_1913408.html

    Brady’s Lutheran background has him tending to his own vocation and not that of someone else’s.

  • http://www.caryschwarz.com saddler

    According to the NFL, the “blown call” wasn’t the pass reception, it was an obvious missed call of offensive pass interference before the ball arrived. When you read the rules, they provide that in the event of two players catching the ball simultaneously, the ‘tie’ goes to the offense. Nowhere does it make the distinction of who is clutching the ball the closest to his chest. If it did, Jennings was obviously in possession of the ball. The gray area of the rules allowed this to appear to be a bad call. But, if the interference call had been made, the reception wouldn’t have mattered: game over. The interference ‘no call’ was not reviewable because no call was made.
    I like Tom Brady’s take on the whole mess: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/tom-brady-nfl-replacement-referees-doing-best_n_1913408.html

    Brady’s Lutheran background has him tending to his own vocation and not that of someone else’s.

  • Cincinnatus

    saddler@31:

    NFL backpeddling. Have you watched the video of the play? Anyone who thinks there was simultaneous possession is delusional.

  • Cincinnatus

    saddler@31:

    NFL backpeddling. Have you watched the video of the play? Anyone who thinks there was simultaneous possession is delusional.

  • DonS

    Cincinnatus @ 29: Please. No one is excusing official incompetence. I hate it when officials interfere in a game by making bad calls as much as anyone. But, facts are facts. It’s part of sports, and it happens in pretty much every game that’s played, especially football, no matter who is doing the officiating. What’s bothered me about the replacement officials has been that they do not seem to have a good handle on NFL rules. That’s inexcusable. But bad calls? Reports are out that there may be a tentative settlement between the regular refs and the NFL, and that the regular officials may return this week, or at least next week. Maybe so — I hope so. But there will be just as many bad calls next week as there were this week. And that there were every week last year. We’ll just be complaining about a different set of officials.

    As to your points:

    1) The Seahawks will finish the year with a far worse record than the Packers.

    2) The offensive pass interference infraction was part of the last play. Same play. Again, wrong pass interference calls and non-calls occur dozens of times each game, and in this particular play, a Hail Mary, with several defensive backs surrounding a receiver and all jumping for the ball, there is always a lot of contact, usually not called.

    3) Why is a holding non-call that allows a running back to break out on a huge run any less dispositive? The issue here is that it was the last play of the game and the outcome turned on the call. But for some of the bad calls earlier in the game, which were just as important, the outcome may have been different. Point — bad calls are part of the game. Anybody who pays attention to football knows that. Simultaneous possession in a scrum of players on a Hail Mary play is not an easy call in real time. Should the officials have huddled and discussed it before making the call on the field? Sure. But, they didn’t, and they usually don’t.

    Life is tough, and this was a tough break for the Packers. But, every team has felt like they’ve been jobbed by the refs and lost a game as a result — it’s life. The Packers will work harder to make sure they’re up by two scores next game.

  • DonS

    Cincinnatus @ 29: Please. No one is excusing official incompetence. I hate it when officials interfere in a game by making bad calls as much as anyone. But, facts are facts. It’s part of sports, and it happens in pretty much every game that’s played, especially football, no matter who is doing the officiating. What’s bothered me about the replacement officials has been that they do not seem to have a good handle on NFL rules. That’s inexcusable. But bad calls? Reports are out that there may be a tentative settlement between the regular refs and the NFL, and that the regular officials may return this week, or at least next week. Maybe so — I hope so. But there will be just as many bad calls next week as there were this week. And that there were every week last year. We’ll just be complaining about a different set of officials.

    As to your points:

    1) The Seahawks will finish the year with a far worse record than the Packers.

    2) The offensive pass interference infraction was part of the last play. Same play. Again, wrong pass interference calls and non-calls occur dozens of times each game, and in this particular play, a Hail Mary, with several defensive backs surrounding a receiver and all jumping for the ball, there is always a lot of contact, usually not called.

    3) Why is a holding non-call that allows a running back to break out on a huge run any less dispositive? The issue here is that it was the last play of the game and the outcome turned on the call. But for some of the bad calls earlier in the game, which were just as important, the outcome may have been different. Point — bad calls are part of the game. Anybody who pays attention to football knows that. Simultaneous possession in a scrum of players on a Hail Mary play is not an easy call in real time. Should the officials have huddled and discussed it before making the call on the field? Sure. But, they didn’t, and they usually don’t.

    Life is tough, and this was a tough break for the Packers. But, every team has felt like they’ve been jobbed by the refs and lost a game as a result — it’s life. The Packers will work harder to make sure they’re up by two scores next game.

  • Joe

    I am certainly willing to admit that the Packers played poorly, but that is a different conversation than whether the refs had a direct and immediate impact on the outcome of the game. Under Don’s logic we could never fault a place kicker for missing a game winning, 25 yard field goal. After all, if they wanted to win they should have had the lead.

    And, yes regular refs do make mistakes, but they are usually mistakes of judgment not mistakes as to 1. how the applicable rule works and 2. which official is in position to make the call. What happened in Seattle is that the ref who singled a touchdown: 1. misunderstood the simultaneous catch rule and 2. overruled the back-judge who signaled a touch back or to stop the clock (either of which would only be called after an interception) despite the fact that the back judge was in a far superior position to make the call. The official who called touchdown was at the 5 yard line when the players were in the are and only got close to the pile well after the scrum began. Also, MD Jennings (i.e. guy who made the interception) had the ball against his chest/stomach and had his back to the official who called touchdown. Jennings front (where the ball was) was facing the ref who called indicated it was an interception.

    As for the simultaneous catch rule, as the name suggests both players have to actually take possession of the ball at the same time. It is not a simultaneous catch if one player has possession of the ball and then the other player attempts to take joint possession of the ball.

    Here is a picture for consideration. Notice that the arm of the ref who signaled touchdown is in the frame and is in the process of going up to make the single. Notice also that the ball is in the arms of and against the chest of the Green Bay Packer and that the Seattle receiver is reaching around the Packer with the intention of trying to get the ball that he currently does not have possession of:

    http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/404679_951303195461_2065668326_n.jpg

  • Joe

    I am certainly willing to admit that the Packers played poorly, but that is a different conversation than whether the refs had a direct and immediate impact on the outcome of the game. Under Don’s logic we could never fault a place kicker for missing a game winning, 25 yard field goal. After all, if they wanted to win they should have had the lead.

    And, yes regular refs do make mistakes, but they are usually mistakes of judgment not mistakes as to 1. how the applicable rule works and 2. which official is in position to make the call. What happened in Seattle is that the ref who singled a touchdown: 1. misunderstood the simultaneous catch rule and 2. overruled the back-judge who signaled a touch back or to stop the clock (either of which would only be called after an interception) despite the fact that the back judge was in a far superior position to make the call. The official who called touchdown was at the 5 yard line when the players were in the are and only got close to the pile well after the scrum began. Also, MD Jennings (i.e. guy who made the interception) had the ball against his chest/stomach and had his back to the official who called touchdown. Jennings front (where the ball was) was facing the ref who called indicated it was an interception.

    As for the simultaneous catch rule, as the name suggests both players have to actually take possession of the ball at the same time. It is not a simultaneous catch if one player has possession of the ball and then the other player attempts to take joint possession of the ball.

    Here is a picture for consideration. Notice that the arm of the ref who signaled touchdown is in the frame and is in the process of going up to make the single. Notice also that the ball is in the arms of and against the chest of the Green Bay Packer and that the Seattle receiver is reaching around the Packer with the intention of trying to get the ball that he currently does not have possession of:

    http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/404679_951303195461_2065668326_n.jpg

  • Joe

    Sorry for the typos (I’m only a replacement Joe, the real Joe wants a stipend for commenting …)

  • Joe

    Sorry for the typos (I’m only a replacement Joe, the real Joe wants a stipend for commenting …)

  • SKPeterson

    I will boldly state that the Packers deserve to have every bad call that can be made made against them. Repeatedly. Over and over and over again. The Steelers too.

    Face it, this was simply ill-timed justice for the Sea Chickens after the refereeing fiasco that was the 2006 Super Bowl. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkSPINuBrO4

  • SKPeterson

    I will boldly state that the Packers deserve to have every bad call that can be made made against them. Repeatedly. Over and over and over again. The Steelers too.

    Face it, this was simply ill-timed justice for the Sea Chickens after the refereeing fiasco that was the 2006 Super Bowl. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkSPINuBrO4

  • DonS

    Joe @ 34:

    Under Don’s logic we could never fault a place kicker for missing a game winning, 25 yard field goal. After all, if they wanted to win they should have had the lead.

    Exactly. Now, missing a 25 yard field goal is pretty egregious, because pro kickers almost never miss those (though I think somebody missed a 27 yarder, might have been New England, that cost them a game this year). But a good coach, and a well-coached team, will always say that the loss was a team effort, and it doesn’t fall solely on the kicker’s shoulders on those last-play kicks. There are typically some 60 offensive plays run by each team in a routine NFL game, and they all have a role in determining the outcome. Missing a kick in the 2nd quarter is just as important as in the 4th quarter, though the timing makes the 4th quarter miss much more noticeable in a close game.

    What happened in Seattle is that the ref who singled a touchdown: 1. misunderstood the simultaneous catch rule and 2. overruled the back-judge who signaled a touch back or to stop the clock (either of which would only be called after an interception) despite the fact that the back judge was in a far superior position to make the call.

    Really? He misunderstood the rule? I hadn’t heard that. I just thought he missed the fact that the DB had possession first. To me, the real issue is that there were conflicting calls by the back-judge and the side-judge — they should have discussed what they saw before making a final call on the field.

  • DonS

    Joe @ 34:

    Under Don’s logic we could never fault a place kicker for missing a game winning, 25 yard field goal. After all, if they wanted to win they should have had the lead.

    Exactly. Now, missing a 25 yard field goal is pretty egregious, because pro kickers almost never miss those (though I think somebody missed a 27 yarder, might have been New England, that cost them a game this year). But a good coach, and a well-coached team, will always say that the loss was a team effort, and it doesn’t fall solely on the kicker’s shoulders on those last-play kicks. There are typically some 60 offensive plays run by each team in a routine NFL game, and they all have a role in determining the outcome. Missing a kick in the 2nd quarter is just as important as in the 4th quarter, though the timing makes the 4th quarter miss much more noticeable in a close game.

    What happened in Seattle is that the ref who singled a touchdown: 1. misunderstood the simultaneous catch rule and 2. overruled the back-judge who signaled a touch back or to stop the clock (either of which would only be called after an interception) despite the fact that the back judge was in a far superior position to make the call.

    Really? He misunderstood the rule? I hadn’t heard that. I just thought he missed the fact that the DB had possession first. To me, the real issue is that there were conflicting calls by the back-judge and the side-judge — they should have discussed what they saw before making a final call on the field.

  • DonS

    SKP @ 36: There you go. It was karma.

  • DonS

    SKP @ 36: There you go. It was karma.

  • SKPeterson

    My comment @ 36 is just a way of saying that all this hoopla is simply to provide a (poor) excuse for the performance to date of a fairly lousy to mediocre Packers team that was widely given the type of fanfare and hype normally reserved for Notre Dame, or talk about the Big 10 being a “legit” conference, before reality sets in and everyone realizes they were so very, very wrong.

  • SKPeterson

    My comment @ 36 is just a way of saying that all this hoopla is simply to provide a (poor) excuse for the performance to date of a fairly lousy to mediocre Packers team that was widely given the type of fanfare and hype normally reserved for Notre Dame, or talk about the Big 10 being a “legit” conference, before reality sets in and everyone realizes they were so very, very wrong.

  • DonS

    Well, tODD was right @ 23, but hopefully now, after his comment @ 39, the heat will be on SKP! ;-)

  • DonS

    Well, tODD was right @ 23, but hopefully now, after his comment @ 39, the heat will be on SKP! ;-)

  • Joe

    SKP – are you from Chicago by chance? And, yes the Seahawks got hosed out of a Super Bowl. No doubt about it.

    Don – If he did not misunderstand it then he is blind and stupid, because it is almost impossible to not notice that MD Jennings had the ball and that Tate was desperately trying to wrestling it from him. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he misunderstood the rule. If he didn’t misunderstanding it he is either stupid, blind or decided to make the call despite not having actually seen the play. The 8th Commandment requires me to assume he misunderstood the rule.

  • Joe

    SKP – are you from Chicago by chance? And, yes the Seahawks got hosed out of a Super Bowl. No doubt about it.

    Don – If he did not misunderstand it then he is blind and stupid, because it is almost impossible to not notice that MD Jennings had the ball and that Tate was desperately trying to wrestling it from him. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he misunderstood the rule. If he didn’t misunderstanding it he is either stupid, blind or decided to make the call despite not having actually seen the play. The 8th Commandment requires me to assume he misunderstood the rule.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS@40: No, SKP is correct. The Packers are looking pretty mediocre this season (and my own Big 10 is just embarrassing). See? I have no dog in this fight.

    But Joe is also correct. The problem isn’t just a run-of-the-mill bad call that screwed the Packers. The problem is gross incompetence and an official organizational response that borders on corruption. There are numerous articles out there noting the extent to which the replacement referees have essentially made the beginning of this football season a general boondoggle. Which is bad enough, but fans start getting restless when referees actually start changing the outcome of games obviously and single-handedly. Watch the video again. Unless you’re a rabid Seahawks fan (do those exist?), it’s impossible not to conclude that this was more than simply a “mistaken” call. These refs didn’t even know what was going on. I’m surprised they didn’t rule it a “home run.”

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS@40: No, SKP is correct. The Packers are looking pretty mediocre this season (and my own Big 10 is just embarrassing). See? I have no dog in this fight.

    But Joe is also correct. The problem isn’t just a run-of-the-mill bad call that screwed the Packers. The problem is gross incompetence and an official organizational response that borders on corruption. There are numerous articles out there noting the extent to which the replacement referees have essentially made the beginning of this football season a general boondoggle. Which is bad enough, but fans start getting restless when referees actually start changing the outcome of games obviously and single-handedly. Watch the video again. Unless you’re a rabid Seahawks fan (do those exist?), it’s impossible not to conclude that this was more than simply a “mistaken” call. These refs didn’t even know what was going on. I’m surprised they didn’t rule it a “home run.”

  • Joe

    SKP — That is not what the hoopla is about. The Packers are not playing well. No two ways about it. The hoopla is that they team is struggling to beat the 11 guys on the other team and know they have to beat the refs, too. As the Walrus said after the 2006 Super Bowl:

    “I knew it was going to be tough to beat the Pittsburgh Steelers. I didn’t know we’d have to beat the guys in the striped shirts too. “

  • Joe

    SKP — That is not what the hoopla is about. The Packers are not playing well. No two ways about it. The hoopla is that they team is struggling to beat the 11 guys on the other team and know they have to beat the refs, too. As the Walrus said after the 2006 Super Bowl:

    “I knew it was going to be tough to beat the Pittsburgh Steelers. I didn’t know we’d have to beat the guys in the striped shirts too. “

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    Wait. Tha play was a home run!

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    Wait. Tha play was a home run!

  • Joe

    This is one of the better things I have seen in the aftermath:

    http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/643869_10151044043540986_367453587_n.jpg

  • Joe

    This is one of the better things I have seen in the aftermath:

    http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/643869_10151044043540986_367453587_n.jpg

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    That’s a good pic for Facebook. It’s getting posted.

  • http://facebook.com/mesamike Mike Westfall

    That’s a good pic for Facebook. It’s getting posted.

  • DonS

    Yeah, Mike @ 46: Too late. It’s all over the place.

    Joe @ 41: LOL! I certainly don’t want to interfere with your understanding of your obligations under the 8th Commandment.

    Cincinnatus @ 42: Well, I have no dog in this fight either. My teams are the Eagles and the USC Trojans (don’t get me started about the NCAA), but we all know that these kinds of calls happen all the time — they are part of the game. If you’re a mediocre team, as you claim the Packers are this year (time will tell — some teams just start slow), and you play poorly against another mediocre team, well, then, quit whining. That’s all I’m saying.

    And if you’re President Obama, quit worrying about NFL officiating and try to figure out what went wrong in Benghazi, and how you can better defend your diplomatic personnel. Also, try scheduling a few bilateral meetings with Middle Eastern government leaders instead of Joy Behar.

  • DonS

    Yeah, Mike @ 46: Too late. It’s all over the place.

    Joe @ 41: LOL! I certainly don’t want to interfere with your understanding of your obligations under the 8th Commandment.

    Cincinnatus @ 42: Well, I have no dog in this fight either. My teams are the Eagles and the USC Trojans (don’t get me started about the NCAA), but we all know that these kinds of calls happen all the time — they are part of the game. If you’re a mediocre team, as you claim the Packers are this year (time will tell — some teams just start slow), and you play poorly against another mediocre team, well, then, quit whining. That’s all I’m saying.

    And if you’re President Obama, quit worrying about NFL officiating and try to figure out what went wrong in Benghazi, and how you can better defend your diplomatic personnel. Also, try scheduling a few bilateral meetings with Middle Eastern government leaders instead of Joy Behar.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS@47:

    Your logic baffles me.

    We all know that these kinds of calls happen all the time

    Um, no. They don’t. That’s the point, and that’s the reason for the general outrage. Bad calls happen all the time. Gross official incompetence that visibly transforms the outcome of the game does not. There really isn’t room for interpretation in this particular call. Bad calls make people angry. Gross official incompetence tarnishes the brand of an organization and corrupts its ethics.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS@47:

    Your logic baffles me.

    We all know that these kinds of calls happen all the time

    Um, no. They don’t. That’s the point, and that’s the reason for the general outrage. Bad calls happen all the time. Gross official incompetence that visibly transforms the outcome of the game does not. There really isn’t room for interpretation in this particular call. Bad calls make people angry. Gross official incompetence tarnishes the brand of an organization and corrupts its ethics.

  • DonS

    Cincinnatus @ 48: If you think this call was “gross official incompetence” as opposed to the countless other such calls, you clearly don’t watch enough football. Did you look at those other videos that have been posted? Do you watch games? Do you remember the “tuck rule” call? This was obviously a very difficult call to make in real time — anytime you have that many players in proximity, all jumping and obscuring the location of the ball to the officials on ground level, the call is difficult. Video replay, from cameras above the field, constitutes armchair officiating, which is way easier. It was a freak play, just in the fact that someone came down in possession of the ball. It’s just another unfortunate notation in the history of blown officiating calls –nothing special.

  • DonS

    Cincinnatus @ 48: If you think this call was “gross official incompetence” as opposed to the countless other such calls, you clearly don’t watch enough football. Did you look at those other videos that have been posted? Do you watch games? Do you remember the “tuck rule” call? This was obviously a very difficult call to make in real time — anytime you have that many players in proximity, all jumping and obscuring the location of the ball to the officials on ground level, the call is difficult. Video replay, from cameras above the field, constitutes armchair officiating, which is way easier. It was a freak play, just in the fact that someone came down in possession of the ball. It’s just another unfortunate notation in the history of blown officiating calls –nothing special.

  • Cincinnatus

    Yeah, ok, Don. You’re totally right: referees invent touchdowns out of thin air all the time. All the time.

  • Cincinnatus

    Yeah, ok, Don. You’re totally right: referees invent touchdowns out of thin air all the time. All the time.

  • Stone the Crows

    The Packers were robbed. A push off by Golden Tate and then an interception called a touchdown. It must be a miserable situation for Rodgers; for sure now and then a call doesn’t go your way and it determines the outcome of the game. But imagine flying back to Green Bay knowing that the same thing can and probably will happen to you next week. And the worst of it is yet to come, as this silliness continues players are going to push the boundaries of infractions farther and farther knowing how easy it is to get away with murder. After hearing an interview with Tate the night of the game in which he was asked if he pushed off, he replied ‘I don’t know what you’re talking about.’ Uh huh sure you don’t. And to top it off we had players on the Seahawks giving thanks to God for this lucky dog call.

  • Stone the Crows

    The Packers were robbed. A push off by Golden Tate and then an interception called a touchdown. It must be a miserable situation for Rodgers; for sure now and then a call doesn’t go your way and it determines the outcome of the game. But imagine flying back to Green Bay knowing that the same thing can and probably will happen to you next week. And the worst of it is yet to come, as this silliness continues players are going to push the boundaries of infractions farther and farther knowing how easy it is to get away with murder. After hearing an interview with Tate the night of the game in which he was asked if he pushed off, he replied ‘I don’t know what you’re talking about.’ Uh huh sure you don’t. And to top it off we had players on the Seahawks giving thanks to God for this lucky dog call.

  • DonS

    There’s no crying in football. Man up.

  • DonS

    There’s no crying in football. Man up.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS:

    Are…are you…trolling? I mean, you sure are going to extraordinary lengths to defend (or minimize) an officiating call that has been (nearly) universally acknowledged as being grossly wrong, at best, and an organization that is appearing increasingly negligent in its own stated professional obligations.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS:

    Are…are you…trolling? I mean, you sure are going to extraordinary lengths to defend (or minimize) an officiating call that has been (nearly) universally acknowledged as being grossly wrong, at best, and an organization that is appearing increasingly negligent in its own stated professional obligations.

  • DonS

    I’m not trolling Cincinnatus. I’ve just seen far worse calls, ones that were a lot easier to make, and weren’t. This one has been way blown out of proportion because the officials happened to be replacement officials, and it is popular to vilify them.

  • DonS

    I’m not trolling Cincinnatus. I’ve just seen far worse calls, ones that were a lot easier to make, and weren’t. This one has been way blown out of proportion because the officials happened to be replacement officials, and it is popular to vilify them.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com bike bubba

    My favorite point here is the one made by Bob at about #17; some of the replacement refs had been fired by the Lingerie Football League for incompetence. At a certain point, the NFL has got to come to the conclusion that there is a limited supply of men who can call football plays with reasonable accuracy, and that maybe, just maybe, they need to compensate them appropriately to protect the reputation of their sport.

    At least, whatever reputation is left after arrests of players, extortion of taxpayers for stadiums, and the Cialis ads. I’m off to watch Heidi now.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com bike bubba

    My favorite point here is the one made by Bob at about #17; some of the replacement refs had been fired by the Lingerie Football League for incompetence. At a certain point, the NFL has got to come to the conclusion that there is a limited supply of men who can call football plays with reasonable accuracy, and that maybe, just maybe, they need to compensate them appropriately to protect the reputation of their sport.

    At least, whatever reputation is left after arrests of players, extortion of taxpayers for stadiums, and the Cialis ads. I’m off to watch Heidi now.

  • DonS

    One more point — Football 101 says that in the last play Hail Mary situation, the DBs’ first obligation is to knock down the ball. Not intercept it — there’s no point in an interception at that point, because if the pass is incomplete, the game is over, and a lot more can go wrong when you try to make a catch than when you just try to knock the ball down. Even after the illegal push, there were still four GB DB’s around the receiver — they easily could have knocked that ball down. Bad coaching, poor decision-making, or the desire to enhance a stat — in any event failing to knock the ball down cost them dearly.

  • DonS

    One more point — Football 101 says that in the last play Hail Mary situation, the DBs’ first obligation is to knock down the ball. Not intercept it — there’s no point in an interception at that point, because if the pass is incomplete, the game is over, and a lot more can go wrong when you try to make a catch than when you just try to knock the ball down. Even after the illegal push, there were still four GB DB’s around the receiver — they easily could have knocked that ball down. Bad coaching, poor decision-making, or the desire to enhance a stat — in any event failing to knock the ball down cost them dearly.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS:

    And that slut wouldn’t have been raped if she hadn’t been there in the first place!

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS:

    And that slut wouldn’t have been raped if she hadn’t been there in the first place!

  • DonS

    The discourse here seems to be coarsening, absurdly. Are we really likening a football call to rape?

    Time to check out.

  • DonS

    The discourse here seems to be coarsening, absurdly. Are we really likening a football call to rape?

    Time to check out.

  • Dan Kempin

    Joe, #46,

    Seen this one?

    http://memegenerator.net/instance/27339460

    (Sorry for the other off color stuff on the site.)

  • Dan Kempin

    Joe, #46,

    Seen this one?

    http://memegenerator.net/instance/27339460

    (Sorry for the other off color stuff on the site.)

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS:

    Oh, don’t get your knickers in a bunch. Your logic is a classic blaming of the victim. Is a botched football call as bad as a rape? Of course not. But your logic seems no more appropriate in the case of Monday’s game nonetheless.

    “Yes, well, maybe he shouldn’t have tried to catch it in the first place.”

    I mean, really DonS. What’s your endgame here? The story here–the one I’ve been trying to expose–is that the NFL is a corrupt organization run by greedy men in suits with no concern for the integrity of the sport and no respect for their fans. Put otherwise, the issue isn’t the blown call, per se, but the context in which it occurred. This was all avoidable, and I am 100% certain that the regular referees would not have made the same call that the scabs did.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS:

    Oh, don’t get your knickers in a bunch. Your logic is a classic blaming of the victim. Is a botched football call as bad as a rape? Of course not. But your logic seems no more appropriate in the case of Monday’s game nonetheless.

    “Yes, well, maybe he shouldn’t have tried to catch it in the first place.”

    I mean, really DonS. What’s your endgame here? The story here–the one I’ve been trying to expose–is that the NFL is a corrupt organization run by greedy men in suits with no concern for the integrity of the sport and no respect for their fans. Put otherwise, the issue isn’t the blown call, per se, but the context in which it occurred. This was all avoidable, and I am 100% certain that the regular referees would not have made the same call that the scabs did.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Okay, as long as we’re courting the Green and Gold Fatwa with memes, I laughed the most at this one.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Okay, as long as we’re courting the Green and Gold Fatwa with memes, I laughed the most at this one.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Stop picking on the scabs. If you pick them, do they not bleed?

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    Stop picking on the scabs. If you pick them, do they not bleed?

  • Joe

    Dan — that is good.

    Don — the point I can’t understand that you keep trying to make is that this was a tough call. It really wasn’t. When official called touchdown, Tate was under neither Jennings who had the ball. The guy the official said caught the ball *literally* had another person between him and the ball.

    As for the catch it v. knock it down, the you must always knock it down mantra has fallen out of favor because of plays like this:

    Players are now coached to make a play on the ball, which is coach speak for catch it if you can, knock it down if you can’t.

  • Joe

    Dan — that is good.

    Don — the point I can’t understand that you keep trying to make is that this was a tough call. It really wasn’t. When official called touchdown, Tate was under neither Jennings who had the ball. The guy the official said caught the ball *literally* had another person between him and the ball.

    As for the catch it v. knock it down, the you must always knock it down mantra has fallen out of favor because of plays like this:

    Players are now coached to make a play on the ball, which is coach speak for catch it if you can, knock it down if you can’t.

  • DonS

    +1 to the meme tODD posted @ 61. Good one.

    OK, Cincinnatus @ 60, I’ll be more generous to you than society was to Todd Akin for making a pretty horrible rape comment.

    My end game here is to push back against people like you trying to use one pretty non-unique bad officiating call to label an entire organization corrupt. The labor union movement is even using the officials lockout to make pro-union political points, as though a bunch of lawyers who make $150,000 a year to officiate football games on Sundays, and have been offered $200,000 with a $20,000 401(k) contribution, annually, and full benefits, are some kind of oppressed worker group. The NFL may be corrupt, and the whole bounty issue and how it has been handled may be good evidence of that, at least a heck of a lot better evidence than this particular blown call is.

    The bottom line is that the Packers played lousy, the Seahawks played over their heads, the DB’s stupidly tried to catch, rather than knock down, the ball, and as a result the Packers were the victims of a bad call and lost the game.

    Games turn on bad officiating calls all the time. Maybe not on the last play and not on national TV, but they do. That, in and of itself, says nothing about corruption. It does say that if the Packers want to win their division this year, they may need to fix some things.

  • DonS

    +1 to the meme tODD posted @ 61. Good one.

    OK, Cincinnatus @ 60, I’ll be more generous to you than society was to Todd Akin for making a pretty horrible rape comment.

    My end game here is to push back against people like you trying to use one pretty non-unique bad officiating call to label an entire organization corrupt. The labor union movement is even using the officials lockout to make pro-union political points, as though a bunch of lawyers who make $150,000 a year to officiate football games on Sundays, and have been offered $200,000 with a $20,000 401(k) contribution, annually, and full benefits, are some kind of oppressed worker group. The NFL may be corrupt, and the whole bounty issue and how it has been handled may be good evidence of that, at least a heck of a lot better evidence than this particular blown call is.

    The bottom line is that the Packers played lousy, the Seahawks played over their heads, the DB’s stupidly tried to catch, rather than knock down, the ball, and as a result the Packers were the victims of a bad call and lost the game.

    Games turn on bad officiating calls all the time. Maybe not on the last play and not on national TV, but they do. That, in and of itself, says nothing about corruption. It does say that if the Packers want to win their division this year, they may need to fix some things.

  • Joe

    Don — you don’t have to pretend that the replacement officials are anything other than terrible and you don’t have to pretend that the regular officials are worse than they are to be on the League’s side in this dispute. I think the refs demands are borderline idiotic and lay most of the blame at their feet.

    We can also blame the NFL refs and not the League for the lousy quality of the replacement refs. The NFL refs are also the supervising entity for the refs for 5 of the BCS conferences. The last time the League had to use replacement refs they tapped D-I college guys and all was fine and dandy. The strike/lock out only lasted one game the NFL refs caved. This time, the NFL refs told the D-I college refs that they would lose their D-I jobs if they worked NFL games.

    Thus, the League was stuck with a choice between former lingerie league/high school/D-III refs or capitulation. The NFL refs tried to force the League’s hand and the League stood firm. Now we have a stand off between Rodger “the Ginger Hammer” Goodell and Ed “Guns” Hochuli. My money is on the Hammer. Remember in 1987 the League used replacement players and the fans (80% of them) kept watching the games. The players caved. The NFL has a product that is better than anything else available (even with these bozo’s calling the games).

  • Joe

    Don — you don’t have to pretend that the replacement officials are anything other than terrible and you don’t have to pretend that the regular officials are worse than they are to be on the League’s side in this dispute. I think the refs demands are borderline idiotic and lay most of the blame at their feet.

    We can also blame the NFL refs and not the League for the lousy quality of the replacement refs. The NFL refs are also the supervising entity for the refs for 5 of the BCS conferences. The last time the League had to use replacement refs they tapped D-I college guys and all was fine and dandy. The strike/lock out only lasted one game the NFL refs caved. This time, the NFL refs told the D-I college refs that they would lose their D-I jobs if they worked NFL games.

    Thus, the League was stuck with a choice between former lingerie league/high school/D-III refs or capitulation. The NFL refs tried to force the League’s hand and the League stood firm. Now we have a stand off between Rodger “the Ginger Hammer” Goodell and Ed “Guns” Hochuli. My money is on the Hammer. Remember in 1987 the League used replacement players and the fans (80% of them) kept watching the games. The players caved. The NFL has a product that is better than anything else available (even with these bozo’s calling the games).

  • DonS

    Joe @ 65: I am not pretending that the replacement officials are other than terrible, or that the regular officials are not better. I already commented above that the thing that bothers me most about the replacement officials is that they don’t seem to have a good handle on NFL rules, which is a very bad thing. I agree with most everything you wrote, in fact, including the fact that the NFL has a product that is better than anything else available, far better, even with the replacement officials.

    My original point was only that this particular call was far from the worst call in NFL history, as Dr. Veith proposed. It was only the most immediate reason why the Packers lost that game, the others being that they simply didn’t play very well, both during that play and before it.

  • DonS

    Joe @ 65: I am not pretending that the replacement officials are other than terrible, or that the regular officials are not better. I already commented above that the thing that bothers me most about the replacement officials is that they don’t seem to have a good handle on NFL rules, which is a very bad thing. I agree with most everything you wrote, in fact, including the fact that the NFL has a product that is better than anything else available, far better, even with the replacement officials.

    My original point was only that this particular call was far from the worst call in NFL history, as Dr. Veith proposed. It was only the most immediate reason why the Packers lost that game, the others being that they simply didn’t play very well, both during that play and before it.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS,

    No, your original point was that the call wasn’t comparatively terrible, the decision was “difficult,” and that the Packers are really at fault because they went for a catch.

    I call bull on all three points.

  • Cincinnatus

    DonS,

    No, your original point was that the call wasn’t comparatively terrible, the decision was “difficult,” and that the Packers are really at fault because they went for a catch.

    I call bull on all three points.

  • DonS

    Cincinnatus @ 67: Um, no. Read my comment @ 22. I didn’t say anything about the Packers going for the catch until @56. My original point was that there have been far worse calls.

  • DonS

    Cincinnatus @ 67: Um, no. Read my comment @ 22. I didn’t say anything about the Packers going for the catch until @56. My original point was that there have been far worse calls.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    People! People! Let’s put all these petty squabbles aside! Let’s just agree that someone is being foolish and greedy here, and turn our attention to the New American Pastime: Major League Soccer! Now is the time!

    Soccer! The very word makes bells tintinnabulate! Cry soccer, and let birds sing!

    Football* is dead! Long live football**!

    *Here I refer to the NFL game.
    **But here I was referring to the common European name for what we call soccer. You can call it football too, if you want. I think the bells will still ring.

    Also, while I’m at it: The Metric System! Now is the time! Cry metric, and let … oh, never mind. You people are hopeless.

  • http://www.toddstadler.com/ tODD

    People! People! Let’s put all these petty squabbles aside! Let’s just agree that someone is being foolish and greedy here, and turn our attention to the New American Pastime: Major League Soccer! Now is the time!

    Soccer! The very word makes bells tintinnabulate! Cry soccer, and let birds sing!

    Football* is dead! Long live football**!

    *Here I refer to the NFL game.
    **But here I was referring to the common European name for what we call soccer. You can call it football too, if you want. I think the bells will still ring.

    Also, while I’m at it: The Metric System! Now is the time! Cry metric, and let … oh, never mind. You people are hopeless.

  • SKPeterson

    Me gusto el futbol ingles – mis palabras son cantarle.

  • SKPeterson

    Me gusto el futbol ingles – mis palabras son cantarle.

  • Stone the Crows

    I’ll take bad Pro American Football over great Major League Soccer any day. And on the occasion that I get a bellyful of the Pros, I’ll take a walk down the street on friday evening and watch our high schoolers play.

    BTW the whole thing was settled and the regular refs will be back.

  • Stone the Crows

    I’ll take bad Pro American Football over great Major League Soccer any day. And on the occasion that I get a bellyful of the Pros, I’ll take a walk down the street on friday evening and watch our high schoolers play.

    BTW the whole thing was settled and the regular refs will be back.

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