Puerto Rico votes for statehood

For the first time, the citizens of Puerto Ric0 voted to become the 51st state in the United States of America.  This can’t happen without Congressional action, but a referendum in the American territory went for statehood after Puerto Ricans voted it down in 1967, 1993, and 1998.

The vote was 61% for statehood, with 46% for maintaining the status quo.  Only 6% voted for out-and-out independence.

via Puerto Ricans favor statehood for first time – CNN.com.

President Obama owes Hispanics big time for his re-election.  Would this be a fitting award/symbolic gesture?  Republicans are seeing the need to attract more Hispanic voters.  Might they be hesitant to oppose statehood, even though this might mean two more Democratic senators?

Would you support Puerto Rico becoming a state?

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • http://theoldadam.com/ Steve Martin

    If California keeps deteriorating under the Democrat’s control, I may move to Puerto Rico.

  • http://theoldadam.com/ Steve Martin

    If California keeps deteriorating under the Democrat’s control, I may move to Puerto Rico.

  • http://derekjohnsonmuses.com Derek Johnson

    Not really concerned with what Puerto Rico does. Couldn’t they have become a state 20 years ago? It’s not 1878, adding more states isn’t a big deal. Let’s just add Toronto and that strip of Ontario between New York and Michigan.

  • http://derekjohnsonmuses.com Derek Johnson

    Not really concerned with what Puerto Rico does. Couldn’t they have become a state 20 years ago? It’s not 1878, adding more states isn’t a big deal. Let’s just add Toronto and that strip of Ontario between New York and Michigan.

  • SAL

    In this same vote the party that favors statehood lost the Governor’s race to the status quo candidate.

    There are some complexities with the vote that suggest Puerto Ricans are very conflicted about statehood. More Puerto Ricans voted to keep things as they are (817,241) or become independent (74,840) then voted for statehood (824,238).

    This disparity is because about half a million voters answered the first question (status quo, yes or no) and left the second question blank (state, new status or independence).

    I’d consider it very unlikely for Puerto Rico to become a state as it benefits neither America nor Puerto Rico.

  • SAL

    In this same vote the party that favors statehood lost the Governor’s race to the status quo candidate.

    There are some complexities with the vote that suggest Puerto Ricans are very conflicted about statehood. More Puerto Ricans voted to keep things as they are (817,241) or become independent (74,840) then voted for statehood (824,238).

    This disparity is because about half a million voters answered the first question (status quo, yes or no) and left the second question blank (state, new status or independence).

    I’d consider it very unlikely for Puerto Rico to become a state as it benefits neither America nor Puerto Rico.

  • Tim T.

    @SAL, the relevant question isn’t whether or not it benefits America or Puerto Rico. The relevant question is whether or not it benefits one of the political parties. If it does, we’ll see the issue pushed on us regardless of its wisdom.

  • Tim T.

    @SAL, the relevant question isn’t whether or not it benefits America or Puerto Rico. The relevant question is whether or not it benefits one of the political parties. If it does, we’ll see the issue pushed on us regardless of its wisdom.

  • SKPeterson

    Obligatory West Side Story reference:

  • SKPeterson

    Obligatory West Side Story reference:

  • Tom Hering

    51st, fifty-shmirst. Puerto Rico could just replace Texas when it goes.

  • Tom Hering

    51st, fifty-shmirst. Puerto Rico could just replace Texas when it goes.

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “President Obama owes Hispanics big time for his re-election.”

    A bit over stated. No group is irrelevant, but Obama could have won with much less of the hispanic vote.

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/assessing-how-pivotal-the-hispanic-vote-was-to-obamas-victory/?smid=tw-nytimes

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    “President Obama owes Hispanics big time for his re-election.”

    A bit over stated. No group is irrelevant, but Obama could have won with much less of the hispanic vote.

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/assessing-how-pivotal-the-hispanic-vote-was-to-obamas-victory/?smid=tw-nytimes

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    51st, fifty-shmirst. Puerto Rico could just replace Texas when it goes.

    :D

  • http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Contemporary-English-Version-CEV-Bible/ sg

    51st, fifty-shmirst. Puerto Rico could just replace Texas when it goes.

    :D

  • Jon

    Who said the Union was closed? The more, the merrier.

    It will be a boon to all the flag manufacturers, more business tax revenue and more state sales tax revenue from all the flag sales.

  • Jon

    Who said the Union was closed? The more, the merrier.

    It will be a boon to all the flag manufacturers, more business tax revenue and more state sales tax revenue from all the flag sales.

  • fjsteve

    Just what we need: another blue state.

  • fjsteve

    Just what we need: another blue state.

  • http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt aletheist

    Rather than seceding, maybe Texas should compensate by finally exercising its option–negotiated when it joined the Union–to divide into five separate states and have ten senators, rather than just two. Of course, it probably will never happen, since an integral part of being a Texan is bragging about how large the state is.

  • http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt aletheist

    Rather than seceding, maybe Texas should compensate by finally exercising its option–negotiated when it joined the Union–to divide into five separate states and have ten senators, rather than just two. Of course, it probably will never happen, since an integral part of being a Texan is bragging about how large the state is.

  • DonS

    Here in CA, many of us would like to link the admittance of Puerto Rico as a state with the division of CA into two states — red and blue. Of course, the blue part won’t want to let us go because we pay the bills for their idiocy, like bullet trains through cornfields and prison guards who have six figure pensions for 40 year retirements. As usual.

    Hawaii and Alaska were admitted during the same year, 1959, because one was expected to be red and one blue. Similarly, even though they are concerned about Hispanic voters, Republicans will want to find some way to ensure they are not disadvantaged politically by this change. They would be fools not to.

  • DonS

    Here in CA, many of us would like to link the admittance of Puerto Rico as a state with the division of CA into two states — red and blue. Of course, the blue part won’t want to let us go because we pay the bills for their idiocy, like bullet trains through cornfields and prison guards who have six figure pensions for 40 year retirements. As usual.

    Hawaii and Alaska were admitted during the same year, 1959, because one was expected to be red and one blue. Similarly, even though they are concerned about Hispanic voters, Republicans will want to find some way to ensure they are not disadvantaged politically by this change. They would be fools not to.

  • dust

    sell it and pay down our debt :)

    cheers!

  • dust

    sell it and pay down our debt :)

    cheers!

  • fjsteve

    DonS, sounds good to me as long as the Red part controls the Sac river delta. But there’s no way it would become two states because red California cuts a path right through several sections of blue California. At minimum, it would be four states.

  • fjsteve

    DonS, sounds good to me as long as the Red part controls the Sac river delta. But there’s no way it would become two states because red California cuts a path right through several sections of blue California. At minimum, it would be four states.

  • DonS

    fjsteve@ 14: I can see 4 states — two red and two blue. That’s probably easier to create than two states, one red and one blue. L.A. County has got to be in a blue one, since its 10 million lefty votes are killing the rest of us. I don’t mind taking the Sac river delta as long as the Sacramento politicians are left in a blue state somewhere.

  • DonS

    fjsteve@ 14: I can see 4 states — two red and two blue. That’s probably easier to create than two states, one red and one blue. L.A. County has got to be in a blue one, since its 10 million lefty votes are killing the rest of us. I don’t mind taking the Sac river delta as long as the Sacramento politicians are left in a blue state somewhere.

  • DonS

    I exaggerated a bit on L.A. County. It has a 10 million population, I think, but about 3 million or so votes.

  • DonS

    I exaggerated a bit on L.A. County. It has a 10 million population, I think, but about 3 million or so votes.

  • Grace

    I don’t believe this is any time, to allow Puerto Rico to become a state.

  • Grace

    I don’t believe this is any time, to allow Puerto Rico to become a state.

  • Andrew

    One of the articles I read after the election stated a big reason for this change in position by Puerto Rico is that there are more Puerto Ricans living in the U.S. than in Puerto Rico itself.

  • Andrew

    One of the articles I read after the election stated a big reason for this change in position by Puerto Rico is that there are more Puerto Ricans living in the U.S. than in Puerto Rico itself.

  • Jim Hamilton

    I wish the old confederate states would all leave the Union. The federal government didn’t have the legal authority to prevent secession then and doesn’t have it now. Lincoln was a ruthless tyrant who destroyed limited government, used the Constitution as toilet paper, needlessly murdered hundred of thousands of people and left the South in ruins. I don’t advocate the violent overthrow of the federal leviathan. I want to accomplish secession through peaceful, legitimate, and legal channels (after all, the right of secession is clearly reserved to the states and the pursuance of secession is not a sinful failure to recognize and obey the civil authority). I want my state (TN) and all states that share our values to peacefully sever all ties with the federal government and create a new nation that is dedicated to true state sovereignty, limited central government, respect for private property, and deep respect for the true faith. If the federal leviathan wishes to contest TN’s peace severance, then I believe we would be within our rights to defend ourselves, our families, our property, and our God-given liberties. Also, I don’t give two Bic pens what Puerto Rico does.

  • Jim Hamilton

    I wish the old confederate states would all leave the Union. The federal government didn’t have the legal authority to prevent secession then and doesn’t have it now. Lincoln was a ruthless tyrant who destroyed limited government, used the Constitution as toilet paper, needlessly murdered hundred of thousands of people and left the South in ruins. I don’t advocate the violent overthrow of the federal leviathan. I want to accomplish secession through peaceful, legitimate, and legal channels (after all, the right of secession is clearly reserved to the states and the pursuance of secession is not a sinful failure to recognize and obey the civil authority). I want my state (TN) and all states that share our values to peacefully sever all ties with the federal government and create a new nation that is dedicated to true state sovereignty, limited central government, respect for private property, and deep respect for the true faith. If the federal leviathan wishes to contest TN’s peace severance, then I believe we would be within our rights to defend ourselves, our families, our property, and our God-given liberties. Also, I don’t give two Bic pens what Puerto Rico does.

  • Grace

    Leviathan can be defined as racial hatred, that which the old south had plenty of, and in some parts, still does.

    It took the Civil War to begin the long journey to give rights to Blacks. President Lincoln, was a man of honor and integrity – but of course there are STILL those in the south who belch up hatred against him.

  • Grace

    Leviathan can be defined as racial hatred, that which the old south had plenty of, and in some parts, still does.

    It took the Civil War to begin the long journey to give rights to Blacks. President Lincoln, was a man of honor and integrity – but of course there are STILL those in the south who belch up hatred against him.

  • http://theoldadam.com/ Steve Martin

    Between L.A. and San Fran. voters…Calif. is sunk. More than likely for forever.

    The Democrats ruined a great state and an economic powerhouse.

    What a shame. Ho-hum…what’s on the boob-tube tonight?

  • http://theoldadam.com/ Steve Martin

    Between L.A. and San Fran. voters…Calif. is sunk. More than likely for forever.

    The Democrats ruined a great state and an economic powerhouse.

    What a shame. Ho-hum…what’s on the boob-tube tonight?

  • http://edwinjusino.blogspot.com Edwin Jusino

    I’d like to give my 2 cents. After all I’m part of the 54% who voted AGAINST our continuation as a Territory and part of the 61% who voted for Statehood. Someone here referred the blank ballots. Well let me tell you, we cannot use those ballots to determine anything. Why? Because we don’t know what those persons would have chosen.

    An argument is they voted against Statehood, but most people who voted YES to continuing being a Territory are Pro-Permanent Union with the United States. So they’re not voting against the US, nor in favor of Puerto Rico becoming independent.

    There’s a case called Gutierrez v. ADA in the Federal Court System that says that empty ballots aren’t votes. Therefore, if they did not vote, they don’t count. This is the plebiscite were 74% of those citizens that can vote participated. Also, 1/3 of the population, a million + from 3.5 million according to the last Census voted for one of the 3 non-territorial options.

    Combined, Free Association, which is a type of Independence, and full fledged independence, don’t beat Statehood.

    It’s a clear message, we want to STOP being a Territory with no say in Federal affairs, and no presidential vote. We want to be accepted into the adult dinning room table and be a full member of this federation of States.

    As for those whom say Puerto Rico would be a blue State your sadly mistaken. We would probably be, at first a swing State. I welcome you to read this column I wrote in my personal blog: http://edwinjusino.blogspot.com/2012/01/puerto-rico-conservative-eden.html

    PS: I’m a social – conservative ;)… so not all Puerto Ricans are blue democrats.

  • http://edwinjusino.blogspot.com Edwin Jusino

    I’d like to give my 2 cents. After all I’m part of the 54% who voted AGAINST our continuation as a Territory and part of the 61% who voted for Statehood. Someone here referred the blank ballots. Well let me tell you, we cannot use those ballots to determine anything. Why? Because we don’t know what those persons would have chosen.

    An argument is they voted against Statehood, but most people who voted YES to continuing being a Territory are Pro-Permanent Union with the United States. So they’re not voting against the US, nor in favor of Puerto Rico becoming independent.

    There’s a case called Gutierrez v. ADA in the Federal Court System that says that empty ballots aren’t votes. Therefore, if they did not vote, they don’t count. This is the plebiscite were 74% of those citizens that can vote participated. Also, 1/3 of the population, a million + from 3.5 million according to the last Census voted for one of the 3 non-territorial options.

    Combined, Free Association, which is a type of Independence, and full fledged independence, don’t beat Statehood.

    It’s a clear message, we want to STOP being a Territory with no say in Federal affairs, and no presidential vote. We want to be accepted into the adult dinning room table and be a full member of this federation of States.

    As for those whom say Puerto Rico would be a blue State your sadly mistaken. We would probably be, at first a swing State. I welcome you to read this column I wrote in my personal blog: http://edwinjusino.blogspot.com/2012/01/puerto-rico-conservative-eden.html

    PS: I’m a social – conservative ;)… so not all Puerto Ricans are blue democrats.

  • Grace

    Edwin Jusino @22

    You sound like a man who is very honest, and has researched the situation well. But at this time, I do not believe is the right time, to make such a decision regarding “Statehood” it is too soon after an election, which many believe has been strangely handled, both by the Dem’s and the GOP. Romney was one of the worst choices the GOP made. I’m not so sure the GOP would have lost if another man had been chosen to represent the party.

    The United States is badly divided, it doesn’t serve our country to whip up another political storm at this time. In fact it’s very badly timed.

  • Grace

    Edwin Jusino @22

    You sound like a man who is very honest, and has researched the situation well. But at this time, I do not believe is the right time, to make such a decision regarding “Statehood” it is too soon after an election, which many believe has been strangely handled, both by the Dem’s and the GOP. Romney was one of the worst choices the GOP made. I’m not so sure the GOP would have lost if another man had been chosen to represent the party.

    The United States is badly divided, it doesn’t serve our country to whip up another political storm at this time. In fact it’s very badly timed.

  • Grace

    Edwin Jusino @22

    I want to add; my husband and I have visited Puerto Rico, it’s lovely, and exciting.

    We enjoyed the beauty of your country, and the music, which is delightful. We attended a fabulous musical at the Hotel El Convento. I couldn’t visit Puerto Rico without going to the El Convento.

  • Grace

    Edwin Jusino @22

    I want to add; my husband and I have visited Puerto Rico, it’s lovely, and exciting.

    We enjoyed the beauty of your country, and the music, which is delightful. We attended a fabulous musical at the Hotel El Convento. I couldn’t visit Puerto Rico without going to the El Convento.

  • http://edwinjusino.blogspot.com Edwin Jusino

    @Grace: Even with this vote, it will take a couple of years, probably, for us to be admitted into the Union. Those of us in the Pro-Statehood movement are aware of this. But our plebiscite is the first step. There have been states that took a decade to be admitted, lie Hawaii and Alaska for example.

    I do hope you can support us. I think the Republicans need to reach out to the Latinos in the States and to Latin America. Helping Puerto Rico become a State might just well be that gesture to start creating bridges. Certainly, Puerto Rico as a State would become a bridge between the Hispanic South America and the Anglo North America. The State were the United States becomes a part of Latin America.

  • http://edwinjusino.blogspot.com Edwin Jusino

    @Grace: Even with this vote, it will take a couple of years, probably, for us to be admitted into the Union. Those of us in the Pro-Statehood movement are aware of this. But our plebiscite is the first step. There have been states that took a decade to be admitted, lie Hawaii and Alaska for example.

    I do hope you can support us. I think the Republicans need to reach out to the Latinos in the States and to Latin America. Helping Puerto Rico become a State might just well be that gesture to start creating bridges. Certainly, Puerto Rico as a State would become a bridge between the Hispanic South America and the Anglo North America. The State were the United States becomes a part of Latin America.

  • Jim Hamilton

    Grace @20

    “President Lincoln, was a man of honor and integrity”

    Tell that to the thousands of people that were arrested and detained without benefit of trial during the Civil War. Or to the millions of Southerners whose property was destroyed and who faced extreme poverty and starvation. Or to the hundreds of thousands of young men who were killed or maimed in a war that Lincoln had no constitutional authority to wage. Lincoln was not a saint. He was not divine. He was a ruthless, self-serving politician who didn’t give a rat’s ass about the constitutional limits of federal power. Hagiographic biopics, notwithstanding.

  • Jim Hamilton

    Grace @20

    “President Lincoln, was a man of honor and integrity”

    Tell that to the thousands of people that were arrested and detained without benefit of trial during the Civil War. Or to the millions of Southerners whose property was destroyed and who faced extreme poverty and starvation. Or to the hundreds of thousands of young men who were killed or maimed in a war that Lincoln had no constitutional authority to wage. Lincoln was not a saint. He was not divine. He was a ruthless, self-serving politician who didn’t give a rat’s ass about the constitutional limits of federal power. Hagiographic biopics, notwithstanding.

  • dust

    if we are going to be adding new states, wouldn’t it be wisest to limit our choices not to those who can get us the most political bang, as is so clear with Puerto Rico and this administration, but rather those who can be of biggest help with the current, serious problems at hand…namely, and unashamedly, those that can be of biggest benefit to our soon bankrupt economy?

    To that end, let’s petition our government to admit all of Canada, west of Quebec + Nova Scotia :)

    Cheers!

  • dust

    if we are going to be adding new states, wouldn’t it be wisest to limit our choices not to those who can get us the most political bang, as is so clear with Puerto Rico and this administration, but rather those who can be of biggest help with the current, serious problems at hand…namely, and unashamedly, those that can be of biggest benefit to our soon bankrupt economy?

    To that end, let’s petition our government to admit all of Canada, west of Quebec + Nova Scotia :)

    Cheers!

  • Grace

    Edwin Jusino @23

    There is much to be considered. Much more than you might realize.

    I don’t see the advantage at this time, or in the next dozen years, as long as our economy stands at it does, to ENTERTAIN the idea of Puerto Rico’s Statehood.

  • Grace

    Edwin Jusino @23

    There is much to be considered. Much more than you might realize.

    I don’t see the advantage at this time, or in the next dozen years, as long as our economy stands at it does, to ENTERTAIN the idea of Puerto Rico’s Statehood.

  • Grace

    Dust @27

    YOU WROTE: “To that end, let’s petition our government to admit all of Canada, west of Quebec + Nova Scotia”

    Dust, I know you mean well, but Canada is pro – SOCIALIST. Their medical situation is a disaster. Obama want SOCIALISED medicine, which will inhibit our ability to care for the sick. We are already seeing the effects in Southern CA.

    IF that were brought forward in the U.S. I would work very hard to guard against it.

  • Grace

    Dust @27

    YOU WROTE: “To that end, let’s petition our government to admit all of Canada, west of Quebec + Nova Scotia”

    Dust, I know you mean well, but Canada is pro – SOCIALIST. Their medical situation is a disaster. Obama want SOCIALISED medicine, which will inhibit our ability to care for the sick. We are already seeing the effects in Southern CA.

    IF that were brought forward in the U.S. I would work very hard to guard against it.

  • Grace

    Jim @26 YOU WROTE: “Lincoln was not a saint. He was not divine. He was a ruthless, self-serving politician who didn’t give a rat’s ass about the constitutional limits of federal power. Hagiographic biopics, notwithstanding.”

    Who said Lincoln was a saint or divine? Playing the drama queen routine is childish.

    Making “slaves” of those who were brought here against their will, leaving families, children, and wives was hideous.

    What “power” did the “slave” owner have over another human being, to whom he made to work, to better the “slave masters” life? What “rat’s ass” right did he have?

    “Slavery is founded in the selfishness of man’s nature — opposition to it is in his love of justice. These principles are an eternal antagonism; and when brought into collision so fiercely, as slavery extension brings them, shocks, and throes, and convulsions must ceaselessly follow. Repeal the Missouri Compromise — repeal all compromises — repeal the declaration of independence — repeal all past history, you still can not repeal human nature. It still will be the abundance of man’s heart, that slavery extension is wrong; and out of the abundance of his heart, his mouth will continue to speak.”
    Abraham Lincoln – October 16, 1854 Speech at Peoria

  • Grace

    Jim @26 YOU WROTE: “Lincoln was not a saint. He was not divine. He was a ruthless, self-serving politician who didn’t give a rat’s ass about the constitutional limits of federal power. Hagiographic biopics, notwithstanding.”

    Who said Lincoln was a saint or divine? Playing the drama queen routine is childish.

    Making “slaves” of those who were brought here against their will, leaving families, children, and wives was hideous.

    What “power” did the “slave” owner have over another human being, to whom he made to work, to better the “slave masters” life? What “rat’s ass” right did he have?

    “Slavery is founded in the selfishness of man’s nature — opposition to it is in his love of justice. These principles are an eternal antagonism; and when brought into collision so fiercely, as slavery extension brings them, shocks, and throes, and convulsions must ceaselessly follow. Repeal the Missouri Compromise — repeal all compromises — repeal the declaration of independence — repeal all past history, you still can not repeal human nature. It still will be the abundance of man’s heart, that slavery extension is wrong; and out of the abundance of his heart, his mouth will continue to speak.”
    Abraham Lincoln – October 16, 1854 Speech at Peoria

  • dust

    Grace…thanks for the nice words, and it’s not my intent to argue, but think about this…if we go broke, then there will be no health care, or very little health care for anyone….well, except the wealthy, like you and me :)

    cheers!

    ps. the other thing about statehood….they get 2 senators, which automatically dilutes the influence of my state’s senators. a state that has paid it’s dues over time. also, with regard to that, there are so many states from the original colonies, who are about the same size as many of our counties, and with similar populations. it just doesn’t seem fair that the folks in our counties should not get the same kind of representation in the senate given to these itsy bitsy, tiney winie (spelling? sorry!) states. something is wrong with that picture, wouldn’t you agree?

    cheers!

  • dust

    Grace…thanks for the nice words, and it’s not my intent to argue, but think about this…if we go broke, then there will be no health care, or very little health care for anyone….well, except the wealthy, like you and me :)

    cheers!

    ps. the other thing about statehood….they get 2 senators, which automatically dilutes the influence of my state’s senators. a state that has paid it’s dues over time. also, with regard to that, there are so many states from the original colonies, who are about the same size as many of our counties, and with similar populations. it just doesn’t seem fair that the folks in our counties should not get the same kind of representation in the senate given to these itsy bitsy, tiney winie (spelling? sorry!) states. something is wrong with that picture, wouldn’t you agree?

    cheers!

  • Grace

    Dust,

    The U.S. is far from going broke. We are certainly in a lurch with Obama, but that doesn’t mean there are no other recourses left to us, but to admit Puerto Rico’s Statehood.

    Let the dust ;) settle, there is no rush to change anything as strategic as a Statehood for anyone.

  • Grace

    Dust,

    The U.S. is far from going broke. We are certainly in a lurch with Obama, but that doesn’t mean there are no other recourses left to us, but to admit Puerto Rico’s Statehood.

    Let the dust ;) settle, there is no rush to change anything as strategic as a Statehood for anyone.

  • dust

    Grace….you’re right, we are far from actually going broke, but it makes for sensational journalism, as well as dramatic political grandstanding!

    Yet someday, nonetheless, it could all crumbling down? well, we could always just sell Alaska back to Russia and pay our debts, ha!

    But seriously, this statehood thing and the unbalance in power is the most problematic for me. As it stands, it leaves the best coast, aka the west coast, and all the western states, those west of St. Louis, at a severe senatorial disadvantage when compared to the original 13 along with the rest of that states up to just about the time of the civil war.

    Something really should be done to correct it, and the simplest solution would just be to split many of those states into 2 or more….California in North and South, Oregon and Washington into East and West, and so on….heck, even a state of Jefferson, part of Southern Oregon and Northern California, sounds good and fair to me and makes more sense than a Puerto Rico, eh?

    Well, that’s my theory and am sticking to it :)

    cheers!

  • dust

    Grace….you’re right, we are far from actually going broke, but it makes for sensational journalism, as well as dramatic political grandstanding!

    Yet someday, nonetheless, it could all crumbling down? well, we could always just sell Alaska back to Russia and pay our debts, ha!

    But seriously, this statehood thing and the unbalance in power is the most problematic for me. As it stands, it leaves the best coast, aka the west coast, and all the western states, those west of St. Louis, at a severe senatorial disadvantage when compared to the original 13 along with the rest of that states up to just about the time of the civil war.

    Something really should be done to correct it, and the simplest solution would just be to split many of those states into 2 or more….California in North and South, Oregon and Washington into East and West, and so on….heck, even a state of Jefferson, part of Southern Oregon and Northern California, sounds good and fair to me and makes more sense than a Puerto Rico, eh?

    Well, that’s my theory and am sticking to it :)

    cheers!

  • kerner

    dust:

    Not to be too much of a curmudgeon, but do you have any idea how hostile most Canadians are to the thought of annexation of any part of Canada by the USA? Answer: pretty freaking hostile, amigo.

    On the other hand, maybe, rather than selling Alaska, we could sell California back to Mexico. The economies of both places are opretty similar, no? ;)

    And on a different note, the Republicans had BETTER figure out a way to communicate with other demographics, because the attitude of the demographic on this blog is bordering on clinical depression. Secede from the union? Everything in the USA is so far down the toilet that who cares whether Puerto Rico joins, as long as TN can leave? A lot of people here need some prozac.

  • kerner

    dust:

    Not to be too much of a curmudgeon, but do you have any idea how hostile most Canadians are to the thought of annexation of any part of Canada by the USA? Answer: pretty freaking hostile, amigo.

    On the other hand, maybe, rather than selling Alaska, we could sell California back to Mexico. The economies of both places are opretty similar, no? ;)

    And on a different note, the Republicans had BETTER figure out a way to communicate with other demographics, because the attitude of the demographic on this blog is bordering on clinical depression. Secede from the union? Everything in the USA is so far down the toilet that who cares whether Puerto Rico joins, as long as TN can leave? A lot of people here need some prozac.

  • Grace

    Kerner “On the other hand, maybe, rather than selling Alaska, we could sell California back to Mexico. The economies of both places are opretty similar, no?”

    LOL, you’re either joking, or you know next to zero regarding California. Your comment is typical midwestern ;) either joking or for real.

  • Grace

    Kerner “On the other hand, maybe, rather than selling Alaska, we could sell California back to Mexico. The economies of both places are opretty similar, no?”

    LOL, you’re either joking, or you know next to zero regarding California. Your comment is typical midwestern ;) either joking or for real.

  • Jim Hamilton

    @34

    “Secede from the union? Everything in the USA is so far down the toilet that who cares whether Puerto Rico joins, as long as TN can leave? A lot of people here need some prozac.”

    I don’t see what’s so strange about advocating secession from the Union. I believe in limited government, private property rights, freedom of religion, the freedom to bear arms, state sovereignty,and so on. The federal government has been devouring these basic liberties since the Civil War. I don’t want to be a slave to the authoritarian federal state. The right of secession is reserved to the states in the Constitution. Nothing I’m advocating is illegal or even particularly novel. Do I think it will happen? Unfortunately, no. But maybe one day, by the grace of God, the great state of Tennessee will be free.

  • Jim Hamilton

    @34

    “Secede from the union? Everything in the USA is so far down the toilet that who cares whether Puerto Rico joins, as long as TN can leave? A lot of people here need some prozac.”

    I don’t see what’s so strange about advocating secession from the Union. I believe in limited government, private property rights, freedom of religion, the freedom to bear arms, state sovereignty,and so on. The federal government has been devouring these basic liberties since the Civil War. I don’t want to be a slave to the authoritarian federal state. The right of secession is reserved to the states in the Constitution. Nothing I’m advocating is illegal or even particularly novel. Do I think it will happen? Unfortunately, no. But maybe one day, by the grace of God, the great state of Tennessee will be free.

  • Grace

    Jim @37 – - YOU WROTE: The federal government has been devouring these basic liberties since the Civil War. I don’t want to be a slave to the authoritarian federal state. The right of secession is reserved to the states in the Constitution. Nothing I’m advocating is illegal or even particularly novel. Do I think it will happen? Unfortunately, no. But maybe one day, by the grace of God, the great state of Tennessee will be free.

    “Liberties since the Civil War” ? –

    Jim, you wish to go back to the days before the Civil War? – when others were the SLAVES in Tennessee and other states in the south? – but you could be “free” according to your purpose, and life?

    Is God’s grace for freedom for some, of a certain color, or are they for everyone – as in no slavery, for ANYONE?

  • Grace

    Jim @37 – - YOU WROTE: The federal government has been devouring these basic liberties since the Civil War. I don’t want to be a slave to the authoritarian federal state. The right of secession is reserved to the states in the Constitution. Nothing I’m advocating is illegal or even particularly novel. Do I think it will happen? Unfortunately, no. But maybe one day, by the grace of God, the great state of Tennessee will be free.

    “Liberties since the Civil War” ? –

    Jim, you wish to go back to the days before the Civil War? – when others were the SLAVES in Tennessee and other states in the south? – but you could be “free” according to your purpose, and life?

    Is God’s grace for freedom for some, of a certain color, or are they for everyone – as in no slavery, for ANYONE?

  • Grace

    SORRY – My post should have read:

    Jim @36 — NOT 37

  • Grace

    SORRY – My post should have read:

    Jim @36 — NOT 37

  • dust

    kerner at 34….sorry to say, but some of my friends from Canada sing a different tune :(

    According to them there is a fairly deep divide roughly between E. Canada and W. Canada, and from Quebec out West, they feel many native Canadians would not have a problem joining with the US and distancing themselves from those big intrusive government types in Toronto, Quebec, etc….except Nova Scotia. But that is just their opinion, eh?

    And why not, we are fronting their defense costs already :)

    cheers!

  • dust

    kerner at 34….sorry to say, but some of my friends from Canada sing a different tune :(

    According to them there is a fairly deep divide roughly between E. Canada and W. Canada, and from Quebec out West, they feel many native Canadians would not have a problem joining with the US and distancing themselves from those big intrusive government types in Toronto, Quebec, etc….except Nova Scotia. But that is just their opinion, eh?

    And why not, we are fronting their defense costs already :)

    cheers!

  • kerner

    dust:

    Perhaps I should stand corrected. I have to admit most of the Canadians I know that are so hostile to the USA are in fact from the east.

  • kerner

    dust:

    Perhaps I should stand corrected. I have to admit most of the Canadians I know that are so hostile to the USA are in fact from the east.

  • kerner

    Grace:

    Of course I was joking. Pepperdine Law School is my alma mater. Couldn’t bear to sell that to anybody. Not to mention my friends and a few relatives who live there.

  • kerner

    Grace:

    Of course I was joking. Pepperdine Law School is my alma mater. Couldn’t bear to sell that to anybody. Not to mention my friends and a few relatives who live there.

  • kerner

    Jim Hamilton:

    I don’t know whether to poke fun at statements like yours or to take the time for a serious analysis of how abysmally wrong you are on so many levels. But do you really think that even your fellow Tennesseeans share your view on secession? Tennesseans weren’t even unanimous about secession in 1861 (31,000 Tennesseeans enlisted in the Union Army; more than from any other Confederate State. And parts of Tennessee tried to secede from TN much like West Virginia broke off from VA.)

    Plenty of Tennesseeans probably agree with you on the outrageous growth of the federal government, as do I. But every Tennesseean I know considers himself an American first, present company excepted of course.

  • kerner

    Jim Hamilton:

    I don’t know whether to poke fun at statements like yours or to take the time for a serious analysis of how abysmally wrong you are on so many levels. But do you really think that even your fellow Tennesseeans share your view on secession? Tennesseans weren’t even unanimous about secession in 1861 (31,000 Tennesseeans enlisted in the Union Army; more than from any other Confederate State. And parts of Tennessee tried to secede from TN much like West Virginia broke off from VA.)

    Plenty of Tennesseeans probably agree with you on the outrageous growth of the federal government, as do I. But every Tennesseean I know considers himself an American first, present company excepted of course.

  • Grace

    Kerner @41 “Pepperdine Law School is my alma mater. Couldn’t bear to sell that to anybody. Not to mention my friends and a few relatives who live there.”

    What a nice surprise – I had no idea – I bet we know many people in common, small world. Pepperdine is a fine school, many people I know have attended. Do you ever attend any of the special events ? We often drive down PCH to Malibu, as there are many fine resturants, etc., we frequent?

  • Grace

    Kerner @41 “Pepperdine Law School is my alma mater. Couldn’t bear to sell that to anybody. Not to mention my friends and a few relatives who live there.”

    What a nice surprise – I had no idea – I bet we know many people in common, small world. Pepperdine is a fine school, many people I know have attended. Do you ever attend any of the special events ? We often drive down PCH to Malibu, as there are many fine resturants, etc., we frequent?


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