“Everything in our hearts and minds should be fixed”

As you have probably heard, Rick Warren’s 27-year-old son committed suicide.  That’s about the saddest thing I can imagine, both that someone would take his own life and that those who love him would have to go through that sorrow.  I pray for the Warrens and for others who have gone through this.  But that’s not what I want to post about.

The Washington Post published a follow-up story on Christians’ reactions to the suicide, focusing on the stigma often attached in evangelical circles to seeking psychological help.  Various church leaders are quoted, saying as how Christians in mental distress should, in fact, seek professional help and that churches should support them in that.  But that’s not what I want to post about either.

I was struck by this quotation:

“Part of our belief system is that God ­changes everything, and that because Christ lives in us, everything in our hearts and minds should be fixed,” said Ed Stetzer, a prominent pastor and writer who advises evangelical ­churches. “But that doesn’t mean we don’t sometimes need medical help and community help to do those things.”

via Suicide of star pastor Rick Warren’s son sparks debate about mental illness – The Washington Post.

Is that true, that “everything in our hearts and minds should be fixed”?  That we should expect either Christ or doctors or some combination of the two to “fix” every aspect of our lives that is out of whack?   Not just our moral failings but “everything in our hearts and minds”?

 

About Gene Veith

Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College, the Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary, a columnist for World Magazine and TableTalk, and the author of 18 books on different facets of Christianity & Culture.

  • http://discipledave.wordpress.com David Rueter

    Hebrews 12:1b-2a: “…and let us run the race that we have to run with patience, our eyes fixed on Jesus the source and the goal of our faith. For he himself endured a cross and thought nothing of its shame because of the joy he knew would follow his suffering…” (J.B. Phillips)

    I know that “fixed” here is just a homonym (or a homophone as I guess they call them now)–and is not related to “fixed” in the sense of being repaired or restored. Nonetheless, this verse came to mind as I read your post.

    No, I don’t think we are promised that everything in our hearts and minds will be “fixed” this side of heaven. We are however admonished to keep our eyes “fixed” on Jesus and remember his sufferings, trials, and death for us. Like Jesus, we know that joy will follow our suffering.

    God can and does heal body and mind…but not always here and now. He is good and in control regardless of our circumstances and ailments. With our eyes fixed on Jesus and the future joy of his perfect heaven, we can by his grace patiently endure even our broken hearts and minds.

  • Tom Hering

    … the stigma often attached in evangelical circles to seeking psychological help.

    I don’t think this is so much a matter of Evangelicals denying that Christians can suffer psychological problems, as it is a recognition that the mental health field is open to non-Christian philosophies and spirituality, and that non-Christian practices are often recommended to patients, even by Christian counselors (I’m thinking of things like Buddhist meditation).

  • Trey

    No, not until the resurrection of the body. The old Adam clings to us (Romans 7).

  • Matt Jamison

    No, a huge part of the Christian life involves living with our brokenness but believing the truth that we are made holy in Christ. I think the Christian concept of sin does a much better job of explaining reality than other frameworks out there, for example, the idea prevalent in psychiatry that are maladies are merely a function of brain chemistry that can be repaired with the proper medication.

  • Orianna Laun

    Everything will be fixed in the day there is no more weeping. To say that will happen on earth is a clear misunderstanding. Why would the mind of the Christian not be subject to that which the body is? To say a Christian can get cancer but not dementia or a have broken bone but not be bipolar is to misunderstand that the mind is still the body. The brain is just as susceptible to disease as the pancreas. Modern science can merely understand the diseases of the pancreas, not to mention that diseases of the pancreas are less likely to cause a person to act outside the expected patterns of behavior. This is why mental health research and teaching is needed all the more. The understanding is limited by scientists and completely misunderstood by the public. I heard just the other day that in New York (I think–I cannot quite remember) that anyone who has ever been prescribed anti-anxiety medicine will not be able to purchase a gun. Aside from a clear violation of the law governing health records, this again shows a complete misunderstanding of mental health. Not everyone who is anxious is dangerous.

  • Joe

    The idea that everything will be fixed is the same tired theology of glory that infects so many churches. Its is a lie. This Sunday’s reading from Acts gives a much better idea of what the life of a Christian will be like. In Acts Chapter 9, we hear what Christ himself said this as he was explaining how Paul was to be his apostle to the gentiles:

    15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.”

    If even Paul was to suffer after having been hand-chosen by God to play such an important role in the early Church – surely we are fools to think our life under the Cross will be all rainbows and puppies.

  • The Jones

    It depends on what you mean by “everything.” I certainly believe that every PART of the human needs to be cleaned and fixed by Christ, but if you say every THING, then that would turn a human being into something completely different. But I don’t think that type of understanding has to be imposed on the phrase.

  • Thalion

    I liked Luther’s response better.

  • http://theoldadam.com/ the Old Adam

    “In this world you WILL have trouble.”

    And we will be complicit in that trouble.

  • Jon

    Romans 7:14ff But I am of the flesh, sold under sin.

    Simul iustus et pecator.

  • Dr Luther in the 21st Century

    I know there are people who believe that everything about them should change just because of their conversion. They are a dime a dozen in the substance abuse recovery community. If you add into the mix the fringe belief in some evangelical and fundamentalist Christian circles that psychology and modern medicine are evil or wrong it makes for a very volatile situation with a person who is already fundamentally unhealthy.

    And even in more grounded approaches to modern methods there seems to be a weird, if you have to but you shouldn’t mentality. It is along the lines of sanctified Christians don’t need help, but “lesser” Christians might. You can see this play out in the Saddleback 12 step program Celebrate Recovery. Everybody is Christian but some are more Christian than others in either they have recognized more faults or they have successfully recovered from more faults and are completely free of them now. Somehow they never seem to deal with pride.

    I am currently working on developing a 12 step program myself. We recognize that you may never overcome your issues, but we are going to inundate you with the Gospel and give you tools to cope with the issue at hand. And we grab from any number of sources from modern counseling techniques to tried and true 12 step techniques.

  • http://www.cyberbrethren.com Rev. Paul T. McCain

    I know Ed personally and I’m 99% sure that with that statement Ed was merely reflecting a very common MISUNDERSTANDING among many Christians; namely, that because I’m a Christian I “should not” be having these kinds of problem, or thoughts or struggles. Ed knows that perfect healing will not be a gift we receive until the last day when we receive our resurrected new bodies in a new heaven and a new earth.

    Many Christians live in fear of their own emotions and thoughts, for they find it hard to admit that in fact struggles like depression and other mental illnesses are not respecters of person: they can and they do afflict all people, Christian or non-Christians.

    If any good comes out of the Warren tragedy it will be an ever increasing willingness among Christian believers to understand that even as they would not feel any shame seeking medical attention for a broken leg or a sinus infection, so, they should not feel shame in reaching out for help when their “brain is broken.” Of course because our brains are the center of our self-awareness and emotions it is much more difficult to deal objectively with a disturbance or illness in the brain than it is to deal with a physical condition elsewhere in our bodies.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com bike bubba

    What Trey says. If we would hold the person who is, say, manic-depressive to the idea that all ought to be cured, we ought to ask a simple question; have we, ourselves, (and I speak to myself here) overcome our predilections towards violating Christ’s proscriptions of lawless anger (“Raca”) and mental adultery?

    Now with Dr. Luther, I’m convinced that a thorough application of Scripture, centering on the Gospel, offers a great deal of help, but I’ve got to admit that there are probably manic-depressives who need their lithium just as much as I need my hydrochlorothiazide for my blood pressure.

    There’s that “Raca” thing again. :^)

  • http://www.redeemedrambling.blogspot.com Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist

    @David Rueter –
    Homonyms are spelled and pronounced the same, but have different meanings. Homophones are spelled differently, pronounced the same, but have different meanings. Hope that helps.

    I was not surprised by this statement – it seems to sum up most of my Baptist childhood. Needless to say, I disagree strongly. However, as Paul points out above, it is possible that Stetzer was describing a common misunderstanding, rather than prescribing it.

  • Bob

    What’s especially sad is Christian groups that are authoritarian in nature and at the same time, pooh-pooh getting psychological/counseling help outside the Church. There’s a totalistic mentality.

    These situations are tragic because individuals caught up in them are hurting very badly, often at least partly due to their toxic church environment. But they’re made to believe that seeing a secular therapist or counselor is paramount to denying them faith. It’s like sitting out on the limb of a tree and them sawing it off.

    The fact is, God works through means. If a person needs help, they need help.

  • Matt Jamison

    What Pr. McCain said!

    Christians, love your pastors and their families. Volunteer to make their duties lighter. Tell them how much you appreciate their sacrifices. Stand up for them when they are attacked. Speak well of them to others. Overlook their faults and celebrate their virtues.

    Pray fervently for Pastors, their families and all people that the demonic temptation to suicide may be overcome.

  • Pete

    Currently sitting in the pre-op holding area. I’m not optimistic about everything in my heart and mind being fixed this side of glory, but if they can just drag this stone out of my right ureter I’ll be a lot more pleasant to be around in the coming days. “In this world you will have trouble”, the Old Adam says, above. Got that right! Thank God for anesthesia and urologists.

  • George A. Marquart

    To me it seems very appropriate that this matter should be raised during this season in the Church Year. Between Easter and Pentecost the Apostles showed the typical behavior of ordinary people who have just been baptized. Peter was going fishing. Does that mean he was prepared to turn his back on three years of discipleship, because nothing seemed to be happening? In Acts 1 the Disciples ask our Lord if He is now going to restore the kingdom of Israel. They were still thinking about the jobs promised to them as judges of Israel and who is going to sit where. Then, led by Peter, they begin their jobs by electing another “Apostle” to replace Judas. In other words, they were not “fixed”, but continued to make mistakes just as you and I do.

    It was only on Pentecost when, as promised by our Lord, they received “power” (Acts 1:8), and became the extraordinary individuals we know them to be. They received much, and much was demanded of them, inasmuch as every Apostle, with the possible exception of St. John, died as a martyr.

    Most of us, on the other hand, through the work of the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, through the power of Word and Sacrament, with the help of devout parents, family, pastors, teachers, and friends grow in our sanctification with frustrating slowness. Very few, like Mother Theresa, for instance, seem to be possessed of Apostolic holiness.

    But both the Gospel of salvation by faith, and those 50 days in the lives of the Apostles remind us that our Savior lived, died and rose again for the imperfect, the broken, and the lost.

    Peace and Joy!
    George A. Marquart

  • Dr Luther in the 21st Century

    @#13 We do take those things into account. We encourage people with medical problems to get appropriate medical treatment.
    @#17 I pray all goes well!

  • sg

    Sects that oppose or even look down their noses at getting psych help are rare fringe types. Probably less than a fraction of a percent of self identified Christians are members of any group like that. Rick Warren is certainly not that kind of guy nor does he endorse, even implicitly, the idea that Christians shouldn’t get psych help. So, that kind of thinking does not apply to this case at all. Honestly, it seems our secular culture stigmatizes being is psych care more than Christian culture does.

  • DonS

    Praying for Pete @ 17!

    As for the statement made by Pr. Stetzer, I suspect that he was expressing a common misconception among Christians, rather than his own theology. Other than the “name it and claim it” crowd, peopled by the likes of Joel Osteen and a number of those in the Pentecostal/faith healing sects, most Christians understand that we are promised only trial and tribulation, and by no means are we promised relief from the consequences of our sin and poor choices, or of disease, in this life. The fulfillment of that promise must wait until the next life. In the meantime, we grieve for the Warrens and the heartache they are feeling in the endurance of this hardest of all trials, the death of their child.

  • Grace

    Paul @ 12

    Below from the article:

    ““Part of our belief system is that God ­changes everything, and that because Christ lives in us, everything in our hearts and minds should be fixed,” said Ed Stetzer, a prominent pastor and writer who advises evangelical ­churches. “But that doesn’t mean we don’t sometimes need medical help and community help to do those things.”

    By “community help” – I don’t agree, as a Christian that a non-Believer would be helpful in counseling. It’s very important when discussing mental distress, IF, one is a Christian Believer to identify those who are going to ‘help, as being Believers – not the “community” at large. Ed Stetzer, was NOT clear on this point, I don’t think anyone can take for granted what he was ‘trying to say. To my knowledge he did not mention prayer.

    Too often mental difficulties are hidden, when the parents are well known, and worse yet, when they are in ministry.

    In this case, the young man needed help, that’s not to say he didn’t receive it from his family or the doctors they sought for help. What I’m talking about is PRAYER of the saints for someone who needs help. We are told in the Word of God:

    Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: James 5:15

  • Grace

    Praying for you Pete. My husband had a kidney stone, it was very painful.

    God bless you

  • Grace

    I hope you will all understand and PRAY:

    There has been some EXPLOSION AT BOSTON MARATHON

    The news is sketchy as to how many explosions –

    REPORT: Two explosions…
    Ambulances racing to scene…
    ‘Multiple people seriously injured’…
    LIVE VIDEO — -http://www.bloomberg.com/live-stream/

  • JEH

    Tom@2: I definitely agree.
    I’ve always gotten the impression that psychology in general is far too influenced by non-Christian ideas. That and sociology. I’m not saying secular psychology is not valuable, but sometimes I wonder if the field would benefit from a stronger Christian worldview.

  • dust

    Well not sure about fixing our hearts and minds, well not this side of heaven completely anyway, but am sure about fixing these:

    Hebrews 12:2
    2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith :)

    cheers!

  • Matthew

    After skimming briefly through the comments, which I plan to read in more detail when I have leisure, I just want to make two points.

    1. Read Rev. McCain’s post @12 over and over. Then read it again. Especially the last paragraph.
    2. If you suspect someone you know may be considering suicide, ASK HIM. (Or her, obviously.) You will not “put the thought into his head.” If he has, you may save his life. If not, he will probably be grateful that you were concerned enough about his welfare to inquire. And don’t say to yourself, “Well, I don’t think he’s depressed.” In teenage girls, the psychiatric disorder with the highest risk of suicide is anorexia nervosa. “Have you had thoughts about hurting yourself?” If you think of it, ask.

  • Abby

    Dr. Luther @11: “It is along the lines of sanctified Christians don’t need help, but “lesser” Christians might. You can see this play out in the Saddleback 12 step program Celebrate Recovery. Everybody is Christian but some are more Christian than others in either they have recognized more faults or they have successfully recovered from more faults and are completely free of them now. Somehow they never seem to deal with pride.”

    I am familiar with Celebrate Recovery also. It seemed to me to be a heavy Law approach. And I don’t remember hearing the Gospel much. And I didn’t last long in it.

    The course you are working on sounds very interesting. Especially this: “We recognize that you may never overcome your issues, but we are going to inundate you with the Gospel and give you tools to cope with the issue at hand.” I hope you can make that material available to our church-at-large when you have it where you want it. We need resources such as this.

    Antipsychotic medication is definitely necessary for some. Antidepressants help also — hopefully on a more temporary basis. Secular “talk” therapy is helpful is someone needs to just get opened up. But there Christian grace is not communicated. And I found out in a very strong way that that is what I needed, more than years of going around in circles saying very little that was meaningful. In fact, I felt worse afterwards than when I went in.

    If you haven’t heard of this book, “Rid of My Disgrace”, by Justin Holcomb — it is very well worth adding to your list of resources. I strongly believe in biblical counseling for those healthy enough to receive it. Even if circumstances are not the patient’s “fault” — the deep knowledge of Christ’s forgiveness is essential — because guilt and shame are involved in (I would guess) almost all scenarios.

    If each of our churches could have an office devoted to this help — wow. I believe the efforts would be worth it. Years of secular counseling helped me very little. And it is expensive. 7 weeks worth of “grace” training did far more good for my mind and soul. Bless his heart, the pastor who gave me that time. (And there were others too.)

  • Grace

    Matthew @ 12

    Asking the question:

    “If you suspect someone you know may be considering suicide, ASK HIM.

    You just might drive the individual as far away from you as possible. Parents are a first good place to start, however, if you don’t know them, and you blurt out such questions, you are again going to to get very far.

    Malnutrition, is often the end result of “anorexia nervosa” – one can call it “suicide” but that isn’t accurate.

  • Dr. Luther in the 21st Century

    @28 I am currently working to have it published, even as I am writing the Steps material. I am building on a foundation laid by Dr Charles Knippel – he wrote a couple of excellent books on addictions and the Twelve Steps. I noticed the same issues with Celebrate Recovery. We actually had celebrate recovery at our congregation, they kinda didnt like the fact we were encouraging Private Confession as a major part of the healing process.

    @22 Why do you think a non-Christian would not be good for counseling?

  • Grace

    Century @ 30

    Why do you think a non-Christian would not be good for counseling?

    A non-Christian has a different perspective, than a Christian Believer. I’ve seen more harm done, but those who are not Christians, believing the ways of the world and their heathern beliefs can help those whom ONLY Jesus Christ can deliver from depression and dispair.

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
    Psalms 1:1

  • Pete

    Thanks to everyone for the thoughts and prayers. Now post- op, I no longer feel like there’s a little man inside working my kidney over with an ice pick. I’ve become an effusive fan of the vocation of urologist!

  • Grace

    Pete,

    My husband agrees with you! So happy to hear the results.

    Thank the LORD for answered prayer

  • Dr. Luther in the 21st Century

    @31 Somehow I don’t think Psalm 1 really applies here, unless said counselor was advocating behavior that is contrary to God’s. If Jesus delivers from depression why do Christians than suffer from depression?

  • Grace

    Century @ 34

    “Somehow I don’t think Psalm 1 really applies here, unless said counselor was advocating behavior that is contrary to God’s.”

    Oh yes, that’s a great idea Century, turn from the Word of God.

    The heathen offer up meditation ie; Buddha, yoga, and a host of other paths. The Emergent — Emerging Church is full of such escapes, as cures AVOIDING, those who need real help, from Christian Believers who trust in the LORD, not Asian paths to escape their pain.

    “If Jesus delivers from depression why do Christians than suffer from depression?”

    We often are not cured of our pain, illness – however, MANY times we are, because it is HIS Will. Your comment above is mocking what God may or may not do. If God chooses not to heal, is HIS Power somehow lacking? – or are is the passage I quoted at post 22 set aside, in favor of another path? Those who have incurable disease are healed, and some aren’t, who are you to question God ALMIGHTY?

    Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: James 5:15

  • http://mikesnow.org Michael Snow

    There was an excellent piece with a strong prescription for the church at Internet Monk:
    http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/when-the-pain-becomes-too-much-to-bear

  • Dr. Luther in the 21st Century

    @35 Grace, um yeah, wow. What part of “unless said counselor was advocating a behavior contrary to God’s will” led you to believe I was advocating turning from God’s word? Good counselors, christian or otherwise respect their patients moral structure and would not advocate methods or treatments their patient finds immoral. So a good counselor isn’t going to be prescribing such things to a Christian who views them immoral.

    “Those who have incurable disease are healed, and some aren’t, who are you to question God ALMIGHTY?”
    You are not God and I am questioning you. Therefore, I am not questioning God.

  • Joe

    Beyond the normal debating of this and that, on a very serious note, if you do know anyone who is struggling with depression I would recommend “I Trust When Dark My Road” by Rev. Todd Peperkorn. Pastor Peperkorn wrote this book after having come close to taking his own life as he struggled with depression. My wife read it and found comfort in its pages when her mother died an untimely death. It is a great perspective on depression from a Christian point of view that can help a person:

    http://www.darkmyroad.org/

    If you follow the links you can download the book for free in a .pdf or you can request a free bound copy.

  • Dr. Luther in the 21st Century

    @38 I just downloaded that myself after hearing his interview on issues,etc. Looks good.

  • Grace

    Century @ 37

    “Good counselors, christian or otherwise respect their patients moral structure and would not advocate methods or treatments their patient finds immoral. So a good counselor isn’t going to be prescribing such things to a Christian who views them immoral.”

    Christians who seek advice for emotional, mental illness, are wise to find Christian Believers. Christians have opposite values of non-Christians. Why would someone go straight to a heathen to be counseled, rather than a Believer?

    YOUR POST @ 37 “You are not God and I am questioning you. Therefore, I am not questioning God.”

    Sure you were in post #34 If Jesus delivers from depression why do Christians than suffer from depression?

    “IF Jesus” ?

  • Dr. Luther in the 21st Century

    “Sure you were in post #34 “If Jesus delivers from depression why do Christians than suffer from depression?“
    “IF Jesus” ? ” I am not questioning what Jesus can and can’t do. I am question what you say He can and cannot do because your statement was almost along the line of if you are depressed you aren’t a Christian. So again, I am not questioning God, I am questioning you.

    “Christians who seek advice for emotional, mental illness, are wise to find Christian Believers. Christians have opposite values of non-Christians. Why would someone go straight to a heathen to be counseled, rather than a Believer?” Because most so called Christian counselors are hampered by a Law driven theology that is little better than pagan beliefs? That would be a pretty good reason not to go to one.

  • reg

    Grace,
    With all due respect your comments are ludicrous. Do you only get treated for illnesses by only Christian doctors? A good counselor is worth their weight in gold whether Christian or not. The key thing is God uses their skills to effect the healing He desires for us on this earth.
    While I was becoming a Christian I had some very troubling things going on in my life (an unwanted divorce) . I saw a counselor who was not a Christian. We did not discuss faith issues, we discussed emotional issues. She was a wonder worker and I believe she was part of God’s work in me to fix some aspects of my life which were not right. I thank God for her counsel and for her help in getting me to a point where after a 5 year hiatus my wife and I could remarry and have a happy, God centered marriage (10 years now since we remarried). So the important thing is finding a good counselor, not necessarily a Christian one, just like I would look for a good surgeon, not necessarily a believing one, or a wise leader, not necessarily a Christian one. In fact if somebody held themselves out as a ;”Christian” counselor I would be suspicious that they were trying to cash in on their faith (which is an abomination) or otherwise could not get clients because their skills were weak.
    Sorry, Grace, but you are plain wrong on this one. Look at God working through his creation.

    ps Spare me the capitalized , bolded response, with quotations and with with circles and arrows and a paragraph explaining what each one means. (with a not to Arlo Guthrie.)

  • Grace

    Century @ 41

    “I am question what you say He can and cannot do because your statement was almost along the line of if you are depressed you aren’t a Christian.”

    Pure claptrap, there is no “almost” - I said nothing of the kind. All you’re doing is ‘backing and ‘filling,

    “Because most so called Christian counselors are hampered by a Law driven theology that is little better than pagan beliefs? That would be a pretty good reason not to go to one.”

    No Century, you’re backing and filling again – this time attaching Christians to “pagan beliefs” with a question mark, which tells me you know little about “Christian” counseling.

  • Grace

    reg @ 42

    ➙ “With all due respect your comments are ludicrous. Do you only get treated for illnesses by only Christian doctors? A good counselor is worth their weight in gold whether Christian or not. The key thing is God uses their skills to effect the healing He desires for us on this earth.”

    Mental distress is that of the heart and soul, – disease of the body, such as cancer, injuries are painful, and can be treated, and or fatal. I don’t believe for one moment that a non-Christian has a clue as to treating the pain and suffering of mans heart, he couldn’t, he doesn’t have the LORD in his heart and soul!

    The heart and soul of a man is different. We believe in Christ with our heart and soul. My body will one day die, but my soul will not, it will be with the LORD. I wouldn’t think of seeking counsel from a non-Christian – my body is a different subject.

  • Dr Luther in the 21st Century

    “No Century, you’re backing and filling again – this time attaching Christians to “pagan beliefs” with a question mark, which tells me you know little about “Christian” counseling.”
    Quite the contrary, I have had enough experience with Christian counseling to know many come out of Arminean or Holiness churches both of which are Law driven theologies. A Law driven theology is little better than pagan beliefs because it teaches self reliance i.e. decision theology. I have met very few Gospel driven Christian Counselors. They exist but they are fewer in number.

    Uh, you do know what a rhetorical question is?

    “ONLY Jesus Christ can deliver from depression and dispair(sic).”

    Your words btw. I have heard those very words from people who say that a person suffering depression is just a person that is a) not really a believer or b) just needs more faith (as in just not Christian enough). So now, just how am I “backing and filling”?

    Ultimately, I would agree with you. Jesus does in the end deliver us from such earthly pain. However, that does not say that there are no temporal means by which a person can have some relief.

  • Grace

    Century @ 45

    “Quite the contrary, I have had enough experience with Christian counseling to know many come out of Arminean or Holiness churches both of which are Law driven theologies. A Law driven theology is little better than pagan beliefs because it teaches self reliance i.e. decision theology. I have met very few Gospel driven Christian Counselors. They exist but they are fewer in number.”

    I don’t know any doctors who specialize in mental illness, or psychologists who are “Arminean or Holiness churches” – Maybe you’re looking in all the wrong places. It takes time to find the right doctor or counselor, for mental distress.

  • Grace

    Does God answer prayer, when the body has been broken?

    I just got the reports from the radiologist who read my, (I believe it’s my 10th MRI on my lower lumbar spine) MRI.

    I was injured some time ago in an athletic activity. It has become progressively worse, each time I did something that further aggravated a very bad situation. The reason I had the MRI last week, was because the pain had become worse. Medication was not working, because the side effects were horrible. I was once again taking aspirin for pain.

    Just an hour ago, I asked (called radiology for my reports) that the reports be faxed to us, as they had sent the reports and CD Disc, by mail. To my husbands and my surprise, in two areas there has been a decrease in size – in this situation, – - that is a miracle.

    My husband prayed the whole time while I was in the ‘tube for MRI. This afternoon, my back is much better, God knows, HE does answer prayer, it is HIS Will, not mine or yours, but HIS. Mental health is different in one way, the one who is chosen to be doctor or counselor must have Christ, he must know HIM, if he doesn’t the advice given for the mind and heart is most often oppositional to God’s Word.

  • rlewer

    Many “mental” problems are chemical and physical. It takes a doctor to analyze and prescribe. A heathen doctor can treat a physical or chemical problem. It is not “all in your mind.” Especially, depression is often chemical, hormonal, etc. and must be treated medically. It is no more a “spiritual” problem than is a hernia. See a medical doctor.

  • Grace

    riewer @ 48

    “Especially, depression is often chemical, hormonal, etc. and must be treated medically. It is no more a “spiritual” problem than is a hernia. See a medical doctor.”

    There are Christian physicians who are psychiatrists, and other specialties, that are capable of treating “chemical, hormonal, etc” problems. It’s a matter of asking those in your church, or denomination who they are, if you aren’t acquainted with them personally.

    For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
    2 Timothy 1:7


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X