Are 70% of Americans anti-Islam?

U.S. President Barack Obama hosts an Iftar dinner in celebration of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan in the State Dining Room of the White House in Washington on August 13, 2010. President Obama expressed his support for a controversial project to build a mosque near Ground Zero. UPI/Martin H. Simon/Pool Photo via Newscom

This weekend, President Obama gave a First Amendment defense of the proposed mosque near Ground Zero. The next day he made a point of noting that he wasn’t addressing the “wisdom” of building a mosque at the site. One of those two statements probably angered most people but I appreciate his comments and that distinction — noting that there are two discussions going on right now.

Now, I think the conversation is worth having but I’m in that minority of people who do not believe the right thing to do is to fight this mosque. Part of this is because I’m big on the aforementioned First Amendment, part of it is because I think it’s the Christian thing to do and part if it is because I’m Lutheran. Though my family became Lutheran long after World War II, I have heard stories about the trouble some Lutheran churches had during the first half of the previous century since many of them were heavily populated with Germans or even conducted services in German.

It’s really difficult to be associated with a culture that your country is at war with. And considering that people affiliated with a particular strain of Islam have been targeting Americans here and abroad for over three decades now, the heat is on and the whole debate is just making me uncomfortable. It would be nice to have some level-headed leadership but most of the political figures seem to want to score points by characterizing one side or the other as bigots or idiots who are blind to reality.

It is into this mix that we’ve seen a bit of a mixed bag of media coverage. Some has been helpful while there also seems to be some disdainful dismissal of those with concerns about the mosque or the pouring of gasoline on the fire. On the latter point, I thought that [Journolist member] Ben Smith and Maggie Haberman’s piece in Politico was treasonous. Just kidding! I simply thought it failed to substantiate its headline — “GOP takes harsher stance toward Islam” — and lede.

Now I know that this is Politico‘s deal — they want to highlight conflict and make it as partisan as possible, but words have meaning. Contrary to the headline and lede, the article basically takes a bunch of conservative or apolitical concerns over one mosque and says that they are equivalent to the Republican Party attacking the entire religion of Islam. Does expressing concern over a bad priest make you anti-Catholic? Does finding Eat Pray Love obnoxious make you anti-Hindu? Does opposing Nazis make you anti-German? Does a critical review of Justin Beiber make you anti-pop music?

Islam is a big religion. There are, for instance, Muslims who oppose the Cordoba project. Are they anti-Islam according to Politico‘s definition? I guess so. The story begins:

The harsh Republican response to President Barack Obama’s defense of a mosque near ground zero marks a dramatic shift in the party’s posture toward Islam — from a once active courtship of Muslim voters to a very public tolerance after Sept. 11 to an openly aired sense of mistrust.

Republican leaders have largely abandoned former President George W. Bush’s post-Sept. 11 rhetorical embrace of American Muslims and his insistence — always controversial inside the party — that Islam is a religion of peace. This weekend, former Bush aides were among the very few Republicans siding with Obama, as many of the party’s leaders have moved toward more vocal denunciations of Islam’s role in violence abroad and suspicion of its place at home.

It’s true. A lot of people are upset that Americans’ tolerant response to an attack in the name of Islam has been met with the proposed building of a $100 million mosque near the site of the worst carnage. But most of the party people quoted in this piece defend the mosque and those that oppose it are not quoted attacking the religion of Islam. The rest aren’t even party officials.

First up is a quote from an aide to a conservative billionaire who says nothing anti-Islam but suggests the real political division you’re seeing is over national security. This is buttressed by someone who is not a party official:

“The president supports a mosque at ground zero led by a man who blamed America for 9/11, his top intelligence official preaches the true meaning of jihad, and his attorney general can’t even say the words ‘radical Islam,’” said Michael Goldfarb, an adviser to Keep America Safe. “You start to worry they don’t understand who the enemy is, and so Republicans might understandably feel like they have to spell it out for them.”

Obama, meanwhile, only fed Republicans’ eagerness to engage the issue with remarks Saturday morning that appeared to narrow his broader embrace of Islam in America to a defense of the legal right to build a mosque, though his office later issued a third statement saying he hadn’t backed off his original remarks.

Muslim leaders say, regretfully, that they also see a dramatic change.

Republicans have “shifted completely away from the Bush administration line on relations with Islam and they’ve obviously made the political calculation that bashing Islam and Muslims is a winning issue for them,” said Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, who blamed the “tea party movement [for] liberating the inner bigot in people.”

The shift has various causes. One is simply the freedom of opposition. “The stronger imperative for Bush’s stance was geopolitical,” said former Bush speechwriter David Frum, referring to the Bush administration’s reliance on Islamic allies for the prosecution of conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now Republicans are liberated to say what many think, and what many of their supporters want to hear.

So let’s just sum up — national security concerns over radical Islam are the same as general anti-Islam sentiment.

Is Politico trying to say there’s only one kind of Islam and that it’s the kind that advocates blowing people up in the name of the religion? If not, how to explain this characterization of opposition? And then what’s with the way that Hooper quote was written up? Apparently Politico just accepts the position of the Council on American-Islamic Relations. The paper doesn’t mention that the group was an unindicted co-conspirator in a case involving the funding of a terrorist group, of course. The media never seem interested in that story. It merely accepts the charge that Republicans are bashing Islam and Muslims and that tea partiers are bigots. Note that the Frum quote doesn’t substantiate the theme of the story either.

The article then tells us that the mainstream opposition to the mosque has worked to insulate the movement from crazies. Finally we get a quote from an honest-to-God Republican official:

Leading New York Republicans acknowledge a shift from the Bush years, but say Muslim leaders, not Republicans, are to blame.

“George Bush made every attempt to reach out,” said Rep. Pete King, a leading critic of the mosque project. “The Muslim community did not reciprocate, did not respond. After Sept. 11, some of them became entrenched and really didn’t know how to cope.

“Somehow the leadership in the community does not impel them forward to be more part of the community. That’s my reading of it,” said King, who also noted that sensitivities involving the site are far deeper, and more real, than many are willing to recognize beyond the boundaries of New York.

I mean, I guess criticism of how well Muslim leadership is engaging the community could be construed as anti-Muslim, but only if you really stretch the definition.

Next we get some fascinating commentary from the sister of one of the pilots who was brutally killed on September 11. She actually discusses the big elephant in the room — whether we’re seeing a “clash of civilizations.” But even she defends peaceful American Muslims. Her comments beg for additional reporting on the issue and provoke some soul-searching about whether Western concepts can withstand conflict with cultures that have different foundational values. I’d love a story that explores whether and how our laws will protect this country from some of the turmoil we see in Europe and other areas. But in any case, even if Burlingame is a Republican, she’s not a Republican official. Neither is the New York City firefighter who distinguishes “radical” Muslims from others.

Here’s one data point:

Whatever the cause of the shift, the end of the Bush-era outreach aligns with the views of much of the Republican base. A Pew poll found last year that 55 percent of conservative Republicans believe Islam encourages violence.

Politico didn’t mention that the figure was down 13 percentage points since 2007. Of course, here’s another data point from a Pew poll from two weeks ago: “Roughly three-in-four [Pakistanis] endorse the death penalty for those who leave Islam.” Which is, well, violent and clearly related to some form of Islam.

What else about the piece? Well the most recent Republican president is, in a dramatic shift from the media coverage he received during his presidency, feted for all the wonderful things he did in defense of Islam (e.g. “a less-remembered element of his legacy is the battle he fought within the Republican Party on Islam’s behalf.”) The story reaches back to June 2002 to find a comment from someone who is described as a “key segment of the Republican base” who was critical of Islam. Yeah, breaking news from 2002, using someone with no official Republican status to support the claim that the “GOP takes harsher stance toward Islam.” I mean, really?

We get a quote from Ari Fleischer giving advice to Republican presidential contenders. His comments aren’t anti-Islam. Neither are the other Bush aides quoted in the piece. What’s more, they praise Obama. Late in the piece we get a description of a television ad that was definitely anti-Islam and grotesquely equates the worst elements of radical Islam with the mosque project. But near as I can tell, the PAC has no official GOP status.

NEW YORK - MAY 25: Opponents of a proposed Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero hold signs during a community board meeting to debate the issue in lower Manhattan May 25, 2010 in New York City. The plan to build the Islamic cultural center -- which is so close to the site of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks that debris from one of the hijacked planes smashed through the roof of the existing building there -- is surrounded by controversy, and politicians and activists are preparing on both sides of the debate. (Photo by Chris Hondros/Getty Images)

Finally we get a quick look at some people Politico believes may run for president next year.

Sarah Palin is quoted calling on peaceful Muslims to “refudiate” the mosque, so while she clearly invented a new word, she’s not anti-Islam in general. Then Newt Gingrich is quoted saying that no mosque should be built near Ground Zero until Saudi Arabia allows churches and synagogues. Which is definitely anti-Saudi, but not anti-Islam. Likewise, other “contenders” limit their comments to the Cordoba initiative, not Islam in general. The piece ends with a quote from Mike Huckabee that seems to be clipped to make it seem as bad as possible. I think my general dislike of Huckabee is a matter of record here, and precisely because of religious liberty issues like this, but he deserves to be quoted fairly. Here’s how Politico puts it:

“Is it just that we can offend Americans and Christians, but not foreigners and Muslims?” he asked.

I was curious about the quote so I tried to listen to it in the original broadcast. I was unable to, but found this:

“Even if the Muslims have the right to build it, don’t they do more to serve the public interest by exercising the responsible judgment to not build it, given that it’s really offensive to most New Yorkers and Americans? Or is it just that we can offend Americans and Christians, but not foreigners and Muslims?”

I still disagree with it, but it’s certainly important to note that Huckabee is distinguishing between the right to build the mosque and the idea that it would not be responsible to do so. What’s more, it makes it seem less like he’s equating foreigners with Muslims (and Americans with Christians) except insofar as elite opinion is concerned about causing offense.

We have a situation where nearly 70 percent of Americans are telling pollsters that they oppose construction of a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero. I don’t agree, but I sure would like coverage that seeks to explore why that might be without resorting to lazy accusations of bigotry and ignorance. I think I’m right but I have enough regard for my fellow Americans to find this disdainful coverage to be beyond the pale. What’s more, I worry that further unfair coverage will only lead to greater unrest that could seriously harm the civic fabric of our country.

For a much better version of the same article, check out this Wall Street Journal piece that manages to stay on track while discussing the political issues in play.

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  • http://www.getreligion.org Mollie

    Just a reminder to keep comments focused on journalism coverage.

  • http://ingles.homeunix.net/ Ray Ingles

    We have a situation where nearly 70 percent of Americans are telling pollsters that they oppose construction of a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero.

    One question I haven’t seen asked anywhere but here is, “How many blocks away are enough?”

    What’s more, I worry that further unfair coverage will only lead to greater unrest that could seriously harm the civic fabric of our country.

    On the other hand, ignoring the fact that the motivation for a lot of opposition really is bigotry isn’t fair either.

  • John Wickey

    News account of this issue as it concerns the proposed mosque near the site of the former twin towers in New York City do not seem to adequately address two issues: 1) the extent to which the deaths of thousands at the site of the former twin towers in New York City have rendered the site to be “hallowed ground” and 2) the extent to which Islam or Muslims as a group have dissociated themselves from the radical Islamists that caused these deaths. I don’t think that the articles you cite address these issues adequately.

  • Ivan

    My biggest frustration has been everyone, on both sides, completely ignoring the fact that it’s (1) incredibly misleading to call it a mosque and (2) it’s not “at” Ground Zero. Which brings us to the Linda Richman-style paradox: “I’ll give you a topic. The Ground Zero Mosque is neither at Ground Zero nor a mosque. Discuss.”

  • http://www.getreligion.org Mollie

    Ivan,

    Actually you’re wrong on both counts. It is a mosque. And the location was chosen because of its proximity to Ground Zero.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/nyregion/09mosque.html?pagewanted=all

    In Islam, a house of prayer is a mosque. In fact, that’s what the word means.

    While the fact that the Cordoba Initiative initially billed the project as the Ground Zero mosque doesn’t mean that it’s being built in the center of the wreckage, it does have a lot to do with the negative response it received.

    But many reporters are confused on that latter point. It is a mosque AND a community center. It’s like saying that a Catholic church isn’t a church because a parish school is on site, too.

  • Dave

    My complaint is about broadcast journalism. The Sunday anchor on NBC seemed unable to distinguish between the questions of whether there’s a right to build this mosque and whether it’s prudent to do so.

    We have a situation where nearly 70 percent of Americans are telling pollsters that they oppose construction of a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero. I don’t agree but I sure would like coverage that seeks to explore why that might be without resorting to lazy accusations of bigotry and ignorance.

    Pardon my attitude, but I don’t think it’s lazy journalism to impute ignorance to 70% of the population on a topic like Islam. Or even on what kind of separation two blocks constitutes in Manhattan.

    IMHO one does not come to a judgement as to whether the GOP is anti-Islam by parsing individual quotes. The GOP will provide the answer globally by the overall pitch it makes on this issue in the election. That’s not easy for a journalist to work into a story but, as the aphorism says, it is what it is.

  • http://www.perpetuaofcarthage.blogspot.com Perpetua

    Hi Mollie,

    What I would like to know is whether there is truth to the argument that Islam is not like other religions — that it is a political position seeking Sharia Law to replace the US Constitution. Is Islam like Christianity and Buddhism, or is it like Communism? I think that is the underlying argument of the “right wing” and I don’t see journalists exploring this for us.

    I even hesitated to write that because I feel such pressure to not “go there”. To me that is the elephant in the living room. To even ask the question is to be labeled a bigot, I am afraid.

    I want to know if there is an Islam that doesn’t seek Sharia Law and what percent of Muslims share that version of Islam. If Islam means submission to God and Sharia Law is the law of God as Muslims understand it, how do the Muslims who don’t want Sharia Law understand themselves?

  • http://www.getreligion.org Mollie

    Bigot! Just kidding, Perpetua.

    You are asking about the same issue that Burlingame raised in the article above.

    It must be addressed. Of course, sharia means different things to different Muslims. I think it’s fair to say that most Muslim understanding of Muslim law would be in serious conflict with Western legal systems, given the way sharia is implemented in most countries with majority Muslim populations. But there are voices within Islam that are advocating something like a separation of mosque and

    Unfortunately I don’t think that many reporters really understand where societies may find Islam in tension with particular Western principles. They just view even the question as proof of bigotry.

    But the fact is that Islam has a political relationship with “freedom” that is seriously different than most Western understandings.

    For some reason the media would rather explore what Sarah Palin has to say about the Ground Zero mosque than explore meatier issues.

  • Jim Treacher

    One question I haven’t seen asked anywhere but here is, “How many blocks away are enough?”

    How about, “Enough blocks away that the building wasn’t damaged by the landing gear from one of the planes”?

  • http://dailycaller.com/dc-trawler Jim Treacher

    “I’ll give you a topic. The Ground Zero Mosque is neither at Ground Zero nor a mosque. Discuss.”

    It got hit by wreckage from one of the planes. Now say, “So what?” That way we’ll know you’re not serious.

  • trierr

    Reading a study such as John Esposito’s What a Billion Muslims Really Think might be helpful for reporters trying to get a grasp on Muslim beliefs and their perspective of Shari’a. Muslim thought in this area may be quite different than post-enlightenment Western thinking, but it seeks a holistic approach to integrate the tenants of the faith within all spheres of life, something many Christians would agree with at some level. However, makes it substantively different from the Lutheran (and Augustinian) doctrine of two sphere (which was also rejected by Bonhoeffer, btw).

  • Jerry

    Mollie, you’re quite right about differing interpretations of Sharia law. It’s quite the same thing with Christians ranging from wanting abortion outlawed on theological grounds all the way to Christian reconstructionism/dominion theology which wants a state based on their interpretation of Biblical law.

    Also, I had a sad chuckle at your sun comes up in the morning observation:

    For some reason the media would rather explore what Sarah Palin has to say about the Ground Zero mosque than explore meatier issues.

    But I think the media is accurate when it says that the Republican party is trying to use this issue primarily for political ends by their statements appealing to our worst instincts. This comment made me wish that someone had asked Newt when he considered that Saudi Arabia should be ahead of us as an exponent of religious liberty:

    Then Newt Gingrich is quoted saying that no mosque should be built near Ground Zero until Saudi Arabia allows churches and synagogues. Which is definitely anti-Saudi

    So I would go much further than saying it’s anti-Saudi. I wish someone had challenged him when he renounced the American ideal that we should be the moral leaders of the world.

    As far as polls go, http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/08/obama-defense-of-ground-zero-mosque.html pointed out that Fox got it right by asking two questions (do they have the right to build the Mosque and should they build it). And an earlier posting http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/07/polls-reporting-on-ground-zero-mosque.html pointed out the distance from the site which most people don’t know about.

    So this is also a classic case of how to mislead by polling and How To Lie With Statistics (an old but still relevant book).

  • http://www.getreligion.org Mollie

    Jerry,

    I was going to say that Newt’s comments were anti-First Amendment but I deleted it because I read other comments where he specifically defended First Amendment freedoms — so I thought it was unfair.

    In any case, the thing about the comparison to Christian understanding of law is that we have to be honest about the differences. I pointed to the poll, for instance, that shows that 3 out of 4 Pakistanis think leaving Islam should be punishable by death. If Christian Reconstructionists exist — and I’m not entirely sure how much they exist outside of conspiracy theories — there’s no place where they have any power approaching anything like that. In fact, I don’t think there’s any place where they have any sway at all.

  • Ben

    The Politico story certainly missed out by not mentioning the Tennessee GOP politicians who have suggested Islam may be a cult and a Muslim Center is part of a political, not religious, movement. These seem to be among the least nuanced approaches to expressing unease about Islam, in that they broadly spoke of Muslims rather than a segment of zealots. See Stephen Prothero’s take.

    To take up Perpetua’s question:
    * there’s never been an attempt by Muslims in the US to push for sharia.
    * if there were such an attempt, it would be dismissed out of hand.
    * sharia interpretations vary widely, so even those Muslims in Muslim-majority states that want it aren’t necessarily pushing for chopping off limbs as punishment.
    * the religion has been around for more than a millennium and has more than a billion followers, so if there was something sneaky and underhanded about it, that probably would have emerged in an earlier venue than 2010 America.

  • http://www.getreligion.org Mollie

    Ben,

    Well, I’m not sure how well the Tennessee situation has been covered but it certainly does seem odd that it wasn’t mentioned.

    As for your responses to Perpetua’s questions, I think there are probably more than a millennium of non-Muslims who would assert not that “sneaky and underhanded” is their concern so much as violence and lack of freedom.

    Talk about historical ignorance! Read up on the taking of Constantinople and get back on whether concerns are warranted. Or consider Martin Luther’s hymn “Lord Keep Us Steadfast In Thy Word” for a perspective on Muslim aggression.

    I think perhaps reporters just need some massive history lesson on how Islam has spread to get more than a billion followers. It is an extremely different story than, for instance, the Christian story. Do reporters understand why and how?

  • Ben

    Mollie,

    Just some thoughts about that 3 out of 4 poll: It’s Pakistan, not a poll of Muslims across the globe. Pakistani Muslims in the not too distant past went through a mutual genocide attempt with Hindus and Sikhs, so maybe conversion is a tetchier subject for them. Finally, in talking with Pakistani journalists there, the reaction to this poll was that many secular-oriented Pakistanis often feel guilty about not being particularly observant Muslims and so respond to “moral questions” from pollsters with a more stringent answer than they would ever countenance in their real lives. That said, yes, there are cases of horrible persecution of Christians there. I just think there are reasons to avoid inferring too much about the wide world of Islam from that poll.

  • Elaine T

    What I would like to see in the reporting is some indepth background of the people behind the structure. I’ve seen vague claims for and against. I haven’t seen anything with good sources pointing to what the people’s motivations might be. Are they US/freedom haters, really, when speaking in ARabic, or do they really work for intercultural understanding going both ways?

    That’s where I see the reporting falling down.

  • http://www.getreligion.org Mollie

    Ben,

    It’s Wiki but this might provide some helpful ideas for exploration about what Islam says about apostasy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

    Not that much dissent in jurisprudence, actually — with examples from Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Turkey, Egypt, Nigeria, Somalia, Kenya, etc.

  • Ben

    Mollie,

    Okay, I’ll bite. My summation of the conversion differences in history is that both religions used a lot of violence and coercion at various points tied to conquests and colonization. Christianity at its founding and within the last couple centuries or so has turned to mostly peaceful and soft means. I absolutely think Muslim proselytizing should be restricted to similar means. How does this bear on mosque building again?

  • Jerry

    Mollie,

    I just saw a couple of other items that I think are very important to add to the mix. The first is that there is already a Mosque near ground zero http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/16/the-other-mosque-already-standing-near-ground-zero/

    And I think Ross Douthat’s comments in the New York Times that strikes an interesting balance I’ve seen nowhere else: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/opinion/16douthat.html

    understand that while the ideals of the first America protect the e pluribus, it’s the demands the second America makes of new arrivals that help create the unum.

    I fully expect both sides to burn Douthat in symbolic effigy for the heresy of suggesting that both sides have a one-sided view of America.

    And you’re quite right about the war of ideas that is underway right now and the relative numbers involved. That’s why unhelpful comments like Newt’s get my goat. Such statements weaken us and diminish the power of our ideals.

    I really wish we could have that elevated discourse you are in favor of. It’s past time to stop shouting about ‘sharia law’ and time to start considering what parts are compatible with our ideals such as Islamic banking and which parts are not compatible such as punishments for various crimes.

  • http://ingles.homeunix.net/ Ray Ingles

    Jim Treacher –

    How about, “Enough blocks away that the building wasn’t damaged by the landing gear from one of the planes”?

    Okay, we now have one data point. Well and good. How many journalists or polling organizations are going to saddle up and gather the other data points to properly characterize this?

  • Ben

    Mollie,

    Okay, good point on the apostasy jurisprudence. But Islam is also a decentralized religion that seems to hold differing approaches to implementation of religious texts. It doesn’t strike me as necessarily helpful for the West to pick the more extreme interpretations and implementations and then hold them up as what Islam preaches. I think GW Bush and Obama’s approach of highlighting more liberal traditions in Turkey and Indonesia while fighting radical adherents seems more constructive.

  • http://kingslynn.blogspot.com C. Wingate

    The flip side of the obsession over the mosque: Church feels neglected in 9/11 mosque debate from AM New York. The only building NOT part of the World Trade complex which was destroyed on 9/11 was a Greek Orthodox church which has yet to be rebuilt, apparently due to tensions between the port authority and the archdiocese.

  • Evanston2

    C. Wingate (22), thank you for the link to the Orthodox church article.

  • Dave

    If there were an established sacerdotal aspect of Ground Zero precluding the constrution of any other worship center, that would be one thing. This objection applies only to Islam. That has to be anti-Islam on the face of it. This is bigotry, albeit of a soft core — no cross burnings or torchlit rallies in this. Journalists can hardly be blamed for tacking in that direction.

    Alas, the sacerdotal nature of Ground Zero has arisen as an inchoate upwelling of American civic religion. There is no hierarchy whom reporters can interview; no-one whose job it is to provide theological justification of the sole application to Islam. Journalism becomes impossible under these circumstances.

  • Chip Smith

    Actually you’re wrong on both counts. It is a mosque. And the location was chosen because of its proximity to Ground Zero.

    He is correct that it is not at Ground Zero. Mollie, you keep mentioning this in the comments of your posts about Cordoba to “refudiate” ;) those who who point out that the site is not at Ground Zero. That feels like a non sequitor to me. I must be missing what you are trying to say.

    How many of those 70% of Americans who are opposed have any idea about the distance between the site and Ground Zero in that part of Manhattan? The only two people who have brought the issue up in conversation with me were surprised when I mentioned that the mosque was 2 blocks away.

  • http://www.getreligion.org Mollie

    Chip,

    The building that will house the mosque was closed on September 11 when the landing gear for the plane that was hijacked by Islamist terrorists crashed through the roof and through two floors.

    But yeah, it’s not at Ground Zero. It’s TWO BLOCKS AWAY. But NO blocks away from the debris field of Ground Zero.

    But as the New York Times reported last December:

    The location was precisely a key selling point for the group of Muslims who bought the building in July. A presence so close to the World Trade Center, “where a piece of the wreckage fell,” said Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the cleric leading the project, “sends the opposite statement to what happened on 9/11.

    The location — where a piece of the wreckage fell — was a selling point for Cordoba. It’s also the primary reason why 70% of the country doesn’t like it.

    I’m not one of those people who opposes the mosque but neither am I confused as to why everyone — from Hamas to Harry Reid — refer to it with the words “Ground Zero.”

  • Odoba

    I don’t know if the new meaning of democracy is stupidity. If democracy is taken to mean allowing one to be trampled upon with disdain and impunity, then it turns into stupidity. One can say that it was Islamic fanatics that orchestrated 9/11 and the razing down of the twin towers. However, the reaction of the entire Islamic world after the event tells another story. The open jubilation for the heinous crime in the Islamic world demonstrate the covert support of Islam for the terrorism perpetrated against America. I want to alert the uninformed including the leaders of America that the ‘Twin Towers and 9/11 were symbolic of power, domination and conquest. Islam in the first place means “conquest.” It is the hidden agenda of Islam to conquer the world and dominate it. Doesn’t it strike you strange that you have mosques in every major western city but not on church in Mecca and other major Islamic cities and communities. Why is that? The answer is simple. They want to conquer and not be conquered.

    Symbolically, the Twin Towers in New York represented the bastion of capitalism. So they targeted it and razed it down to zero. Now if they succeed to build a mosque at ground zero, they would have orchestrated probably the greatest Islamic conquest of the almost unconquerable only super power left in the world. And to build a mosque at the ruins of the conquered “capitalism’s sacred ground” would be icing on the cake and would be celebrated as the greatest Islamic victory in the history of their religion. America, please open your eyes and put on your thinking caps. Democracy does not mean stupidity!!

  • Chip Smith

    Thanks, Mollie. That makes more sense than the earlier focus on proximity.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    I’VE heard or read very few interviews with American Islamic leaders. Not one had anything but cream-puff questions. Rare when political, Catholic, or Evangelical leaders are interviewed on hot issues.
    Now building religious buildings is the hot issue. I don’t believe we should copy virtually all the Islamic majority countries and squelch a religion when it wants to build a house of worship–even when a religion is being cold and callous or triumphalistic, as in this case.
    However, I would like to see some reporters when interviewing any American Islamic leaders ask questions about their attitude toward the way virtually all Islamic countries ban or oppressively regulate the building of Christian houses of worship. And why haven’t they spoken out loudly against this persecution??? (I haven’t read or heard any) Does their silence mean they approve???
    And if you read the justifications given for this in these countries sometimes passages in the Koran are given as the rationale. The reporter should then inquire that if the Koran is behind this persecution, does that mean the American Islamic leader is trashing the Koran if he favors America’s First Amendment???
    We need the media to do their job–not spend all its time gossiping about Palin mispellings or Obama vacations.

  • Dave

    We need the media to do their job—not spend all its time gossiping about Palin mispellings or Obama vacations.

    Deacon, I agree about the vacations, but Palin’s malapropism is significant. “Refudiate” is a blend of “refute” and “repudiate.” The two issues here, as Mollie has pointed out, are whether the folks have a right to build that mosque and whether it’s wise to do it. One may attempt to refute the former, not repudiate it. The people who want to build the mosque may repudiate the latter, but not refute it. Palin’s neologism tactically blurs the two issues, and that’s appropriate for journalistic attention.

  • kjs

    Actually, Gingrich may not be too far off base, if any of the funding for this mosque is coming from the Saudis (as has been the case with many American mosques). I don’t think we really have a clear picture at this point of who’s funding it, do we?

  • Jerry

    funding for this mosque

    There’s an AP Q&A about that and other issues: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iWwgwuMaxK7feqyzcExCK-sBpF3wD9HKPO2O0 specifically:

    Q: How is the project being funded?

    A: The funding is a major issue for some opponents, who say the developers have not been transparent enough about their financial patrons. Opponents have also dropped hints that they worry about ties to terrorist money but have not furnished evidence to support that concern.

    In an op-ed published this month in the New York Daily News, Sharif El-Gamal, the owner of SoHo Properties, said fundraising efforts for the project were just getting started and would be handled with great vigilance.

    “We pledge to all New Yorkers and all Americans that we’ll work under all applicable laws and regulations. By no means will we accept support from persons with anti-American views or agendas,” he wrote.

  • MJBubba

    In response to Ben (#14):

    “* there’s never been an attempt by Muslims in the US to push for sharia.” –Check out the push for Sharia in Europe. England recognizes Sharia verdicts in their courts in some circumstances. The Muslims don’t have the numbers here yet, but they will.
    “* if there were such an attempt, it would be dismissed out of hand.” –Not necessarily. There are cases of judicial rulings in the States where the judge considered the ‘cultural expectations’ of a Muslim accused (in the sentencing phase). There are advocates already talking about Sharia family courts in communities with large Muslim populations.
    “* sharia interpretations vary widely, so even those Muslims in Muslim-majority states that want it aren’t necessarily pushing for chopping off limbs as punishment.” –Many Muslims do not want to live under Sharia. However, not many Muslims would be willing to say so for the record.
    “* the religion has been around for more than a millennium and has more than a billion followers, so if there was something sneaky and underhanded about it, that probably would have emerged in an earlier venue than 2010 America.” –In fact it has. The record is clear. The major schools of thought within Islam have all authorized subterfuge in advancement of jihad. History has a number of instances, and the voices that claim we are under assault now have a lot of (unreported on) evidence to back them up.
    We have a problem when only niche blogs are connecting the dots, and the press ignores the big picture.

  • kjs

    Jerry,

    Are the Saudis considered “anti-American”? We typically enjoy relatively warm foreign relations with them. I suppose at this point we’ll have to wait & see whether there is any Saudi financial backing to the project. Legally, I don’t think it makes any difference – the land of course is private property & zoning law allows for a mosque to be built there. But if there is Saudi funding involved, I think Gingrich has a point about moral hypocrisy. That’s true also, though to a lesser extent, if there is Malaysian funding. And it certainly would be newsworthy.

  • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com Dave G.

    “the religion has been around for more than a millennium and has more than a billion followers, so if there was something sneaky and underhanded about it, that probably would have emerged in an earlier venue than 2010 America.”

    People who studied history before 9/11 are well aware of the record. One of the things that happened after 9/11 was a desire to rework the historical record to avoid the thought that this war could be against Islam. I’m shocked at how many don’t know the history of Islam, Islamic expansionism, Islamic aggression (yes, I know, as good Americans we will usually answer with ‘Oh yeah! What about what the Christian Church did huh?’). But whatever horrors were unleashed by the Christian West don’t negate what was done by Islam for a large portion of its history. Just because we’ve done our best to ignore, erase, or rewrite that history (see PBS’s infamous two part series on Islam released after 9/11) doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I’m OK with arguments for or against this or that, but they have to be based on facts. Facts too many Americans are unwilling to acknowledge. If I may be brutally honest, I have yet to hear one Muslim interviewed admit to them in almost 10 years since 9/11 either. And facts, I’m sad to say, much of the media has bent over backwards to avoid discussing.

    FWIW, obviously the Muslims have a right to build this Mosque. And obviously it isn’t bigotry to question the wisdom of doing so.

  • Ben

    whatever horrors were unleashed by the Christian West don’t negate what was done by Islam for a large portion of its history

    In the context of this discussion, I think they actually do. The contention among some against this mosque is that Islam is a special case — it is uniquely dangerous. I disagree that the historical record puts Islam in such a unique category. Mind you, I absolutely agree that the religion has its violent adherents and violent sects and that those need to be challenged. I’m arguing for people to make distinctions within Islam, not treat it as a monolith.

  • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com Dave G.

    No, the contention among some is that Islam – now – is a unique case. Likewise, the tendency of the West to be willing to admit to its own sins – past and present – is a unique case. Nevertheless, folks are saying that it isn’t what Islam did in 800 AD, 1000 AD, or 1450 AD, or 1600 AD that’s the problem. Knowledge of that simply helps put things into perspective. It’s what members of the Islamic religion did to New York in 2001 AD that’s on their minds, the basic nature of Islam in the world today, its evolving interactions in Europe, the rights record in the Islamic world, the general actions and reactions of Muslim leaders. Today. That is the unique case. When Methodists or Buddhists start flying jets into skyscrapers, then I’ll concede the point. Remember, most are saying they have a right to build the Mosque. But most are also looking at the other elements, most often ignored in media discourse, regarding Islam today. And that doesn’t equal bigotry. One of their reasons the quote suggests no reason to regard Islam as a threat may be that anyone who does is, unfortunately, hit with the bigot label: the favorite way of shutting down debate nowadays.

    As an aside, as I mentioned in my own blog, I can’t help but notice many pundits who have been yelling ffffrrrreeeeddddooommm the loudest regarding critics of the Mosque are the ones whose contempt for traditional Christianity, and desire to see its influences increasingly removed from public discourse, are on display for all to see. For them, the question of ‘is it the right thing to do’ should not fall down on ‘bigotry’, lest their own attitudes toward certain local religions be put to the test.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    C. Wingate brought up a good point and link to an article in amNew York on the destroyed Greek Orthodox Church that is being put through government hoops in order to rebuild. I haven’s seen anyone in Big National Media bring it up. Shouldn’t there be some investigative journalism looking into why a proposal for a new mosque in the area seems to jet through the approval process while the Orthodox church approvals languish.

  • Dave

    kjs, the point about Saudi funding is that Saudi Arabia supports all sorts of Muslim outreach around the world, including madrasas in South Asia teaching a brand of Islam that provides an easy glide into homicidal terrorism. The inflammatory question is whether this source of funds should be allowed to back a mosque in the umbra of Ground Zero. (FWIW the Saudis also fund endowed Middle Eastern Studies chairs in universities around the US.)

    Gingrich’s rhetoric about a synagogue in Saudi Arabia is a red herring. Theocratic monarchies don’t set the standard for American religious tolerance.

  • Paul of Alexandria

    Perpetua, your post – and Mollie’s reply – cut to the heart of the matter, and the issue which almost all Western journalists miss. I refer you to Robert Spencer’s work, especially Jihad Watch.org.

    b. If Islam is violent, why are so many Muslims peaceful?

    This question is a bit like asking, “If Christianity teaches humility, tolerance, and forgiveness, why are so many Christians arrogant, intolerant, and vindictive?” The answer in both cases is obvious: in any religion or ideology there will be many who profess, but do not practice, its tenets. Just as it is often easier for a Christian to hit back, play holier-than-thou, or disdain others, so it is often easier for a Muslim to stay at home rather than embark on jihad. Hypocrites are everywhere.

    Furthermore, there are also people who do not really understand their own faith and so act outside of its prescribed boundaries. In Islam, there are likely many Muslims who do not really understand their religion thanks to the importance of reciting the Quran in Arabic but not having to understand it. It is the words and sounds of the Quran that attract Allah’s merciful attention rather than Quranic knowledge on the part of the supplicant. Especially in the West, Muslims here are more likely to be attracted by Western ways (which explains why they are here) and less likely to act violently against the society to which they may have fled from an Islamic tyranny abroad.

    However, in any given social context, as Islam takes greater root — increasing numbers of followers, the construction of more mosques and “cultural centers,” etc. — the greater the likelihood that some number of its adherents will take its violent precepts seriously. This is the problem that the West faces today.

    In Islam there is no separation of church and state. Islam is a unified philosophy, comprising one’s personal way of life, the political structure, and the entire social structure. For a Muslim, there is no facet of life that is outside of the realm of the church.

    Of course the entire theme of this site is that reporters do not always – or even frequently – do their research into religious topics before writing stories. But, in this area especially, they show their ignorance.

  • Paul of Alexandria

    Dave G. says:
    August 17, 2010, at 8:15 am

    …But whatever horrors were unleashed by the Christian West don’t negate what was done by Islam for a large portion of its history.

    What’s worse – reference Jihad Watchagain – what did happen is usually misinterpreted, in the worst possible way. Remember, the Crusades were a response to the Muslim invasion of Israel and the denial by the Muslims of Christian access to the holy sites in Jerusalem.

  • Bill

    Paul of Alexandria writes (#40):

    In Islam there is no separation of church and state. Islam is a unified philosophy, comprising one’s personal way of life, the political structure, and the entire social structure. For a Muslim, there is no facet of life that is outside of the realm of the church

    .

    This is a reflection of the classic definition of totalitarianism. (Nothing outside the state, nothing without the state.) If true, there is more going on at Ground Zero plus-or-minus two blocks than freedom of religion and bigots who oppose it.

    Dave G (#38) makes a good point. It was a group of Muslims, acting in the name of Islam, that attacked the US. This is obviously not to say that all Muslims were involved, but to repeat the mantra, “It’s not about Islam” stretches credulity.

    The NY Times had an editorial this morning strongly endorsing building the mosque and condemning the intolerance of those oppose it. The Times praised President Obama for his adherence to Constitutional principles, but wished he hadn’t wavered by saying it might not be a good idea to build it Fair enough; it’s an editorial. But I seem to recall a much different tone in both coverage and opinion when the National Rifle Association declined to cancel their long-scheduled yearly meeting in Denver after the Columbine murders. Is there a different lens the Times and much of the media looks through depending on the story?

  • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com Dave G.

    Paul of Alexandria,

    I wasn’t trying to imply ‘it’s the West’s fault’ My bad if it came across that way. My point was, I admit Christianity did bad things. How can I not? It’s in our textbooks, newspapers, editorials, TV shows, movies. music – you name it. I guess for me, much of the outrage at those trying to connect the dots and say ‘gee, you don’t think we should at least somehow consider the overall Islamic history and role it plays in the world today?’ – that they are so quickly branded as bigots – is a revelation to say the least. This is, after all, the same society and media culture that reminds me on a daily basis of how stupid, evil, racist, bigoted, homophobic, sexist, anti-Semitic, and any one of a thousand things Christianity is and always has been. And don’t forget the Inquisition! I have no problem looking at the bad in Christian history, or questioning the motives of a Pat Robertson, an Operation Rescue, a Mormon pro-Prop 8 movement, or anything else. I can easily assume the meanest interpretation, because I’ve been taught by my own culture to see it that way. Just read any one of a thousand editorials at places like the Huffpost, or see it displayed however so subtly on the latest Today shows series.

    What is stunning is that the same popular media, the same society, that has reminded me ad nauseum about the horrors, terrors, and threats a vibrant, politically motivated Christian movement posses to our very freedoms, can stand before the mangled wreckage and smoldering remains of the Twin Towers and assure me that anyone who even dares to suggest the building of the Mosque is anything but beautiful is nothing more than an ignorant bigot. It’s a bizarre contradiction that, I think, many in the world notice, even if we Americans don’t.

  • Julia

    I think GW Bush and Obama’s approach of highlighting more liberal traditions in Turkey and Indonesia while fighting radical adherents seems more constructive.

    If these are liberal traditions, then …. ????

    Turkey closed all Christian seminaries, monasteries and many churches. The government recently made a rare token gesture to impress the EU powers that be by allowing Christian services in a window of several hours OUTSIDE a Greek Orthodox monastery dating to the 300s.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703382304575431400969083186.html

    And there is a continuing battle over a Syriac Orthodox monastery also founded in the 300s in a different part of Turkey where the government is trying to take over half of the monastery’s lands.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB123638477632658147.html

    In Indonesia, Protestant Christians have big problems in holding services in their buildings. [the article mistakenly calls their services "Mass".] They are attacked by local Muslims even when a court says they can meet outside.

    http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Muslim-mob-attacks-Christians-in-Bekasi,-dozens-are-injured-19155.html

  • trierr

    In Islam there is no separation of church and state. Islam is a unified philosophy, comprising one’s personal way of life, the political structure, and the entire social structure. For a Muslim, there is no facet of life that is outside of the realm of the church.

    I imagine that church isn’t what’s really meant since Muslim’s seldom attend churches. However, second temple Judaism and historic Christianity have also assumed a unified philosophy (again, apart from Luther to some extent and to a lesser extent Augustine). Many Christians believe that their faith and its outworking in the world, should affect the whole of life, not just particular, especially private, spheres. This is not totalitarian. As you mention, totalitarian is when the state takes over all these spheres.

    To bring this back to reportage, how do the backers of the Mosque understand the relation of Islam to the American political process? That would be an interesting question which would help understand the theology of the backers, something that I have seen little reporting about.

  • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com Dave G.

    I think the best way to remember it is to recall that the Prophet was at once a political, military, and religious leader. For all the things said about Jesus over the years, no one has seriously tried to say he was a military leader. At best, some have said he was a social, even a political, revolutionary. But that’s it. That he was mostly a religious leader above all things, if not exclusively, is common across the board. Not so with Muhammad, who assumed both religious, political, and yes military command. Hence, Islam does not see Separation of Church and State the way many Americans do. Or any Americans do. That’s not to say there aren’t some who may want to. And because of our goals, they can get a disproportionate amount of time in our media (saying See! Muslims want American values, too). But a scintilla of a minute fraction of a global religion that has some 1.3 billion adherents doesn’t speak for the whole. Best to look at three things if we want to see how Islam reacts with things like America: How does Islam act where it is unquestionably the dominant religion and influence in a state; how does it act where it is an ascending presence in a state or culture, like Europe; and how does it react when it is beyond a doubt a minority, like in America. Trace around, study the differences, the changes, and the similarities. That alone could probably answer your question.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    The much maligned–by competitor Big Media–Fox News brought up the Greek Orthodox Church issue in an interview with former NY Governor Pataki who expressed bafflement at the lousy treatment of the Orthodox church of St. Nicholas. On the Fox News blog site more info was given–apparently the Port Authority will not even meet with church representatives to get things moving. In the story a Republican with a Greek name–Demos–has begun speaking out about the shabby treatment of St. Nicholas parish.

  • kjs

    trierr writes:

    I imagine that church isn’t what’s really meant since Muslim’s seldom attend churches.

    Perhaps we should go with “separation of ummah and state.” Ummah (as the “community of believers”) is about as close as you’d get to “church”. The problem with that is ummah also has reference to a community of … states, e.g. Al-Umam Al-Muttahida (“U.N.”). As well, there really isn’t an institutional ummah the way there are institutional churches.

  • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com Dave G.

    Again, despite Disney’s instance to the contrary, it’s still a big world after all. Islam is not Christianity, the Christian West, Christian democracy, post-Christian secularism, Western liberalism, Western enlightenment philosophy – it’s Islam. While there are various offshoots and competing approaches, they are founded on a base that is not any of those things, and no matter how we want to interact with and accept relations with the Muslim world, folks must admit that.

  • http://www.mormoninmichigan.blogspot.com John Pack Lambert

    I am still reeling in shock at the idea of Bush as a defender of Muslims. When he was president the media never tired of trodding out the “Bush destroyed the standing of Republicans in Islamic circles” line. This is so obviously true, since Malcom X and so many other Muslims through the 20th Century were so obviously Republican.

    Basically, I think that these stories have always mischarecterized Islam. I think as long as we allow mosques, allow expression of religious views, including saying ill of other groups, than thinks will be OK.

    Also, we have to admit that even if Rauf thinks that Israel has no right to exist and that Hamas should be the ruler of Palestine, ideas are not criminal and we can not prevent his building based on this.

    This is why the Boston Glode piece on the facts behind the mosque was so encoraging. They did not try to claim its Imam is a “moderate who we disagree with but can live with”, they quoted his actual statements and let us decide.

    I disagree with his politics, but unless he is actually sending money to Hamas he can not be charged with a crime, and even if he is a criminal that does not prevent the building of the Mosque he envisioned. If having criminals in leadership was an excuse to shut down a Church we could shut down many Catholic parishes and probably many other religious groups.

    Anyway the Presbyterian Church, USA is proactively involved in efforts that have as their goal the end to legal recognition of Israel and the establishment of a Palestinian state in the entire greater West Bank, including the whole Mediteranean Coast, but no one has used this as a reson to oppose a Presbyterian Church being built.

  • http://www.mormoninmichigan.blogspot.com John Pack Lambert

    Mollie,
    The strongest voices in Islam for separation of Mosque and state, in fact the only ones I have ever seen use the term, are the Amadiyyah Muslims. Whenever a US paper does a story on this group some radical, right-wing Muslimgoes on a long diatribe about how the Amadiyyah are not Muslims.

    I am not sure how widely this view is held by non-Amadiyyah Muslims in the US, but it is the government position in Pakistan.

  • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com Dave G.

    Anyway the Presbyterian Church, USA is proactively involved in efforts that have as their goal the end to legal recognition of Israel and the establishment of a Palestinian state in the entire greater West Bank, including the whole Mediteranean Coast, but no one has used this as a reson to oppose a Presbyterian Church being built.

    That’s because Presbyterians haven’t flown jets into skyscrapers recently, killing thousands of people. I imagine had they done so, then wanted to build a church near the scene of the crime, many would step up and suggest they reconsider and build it somewhere else for sensitivity’s sake. Which is all that’s happening. You are right, ideals in themselves shouldn’t be seen as a crime, despite recent attempts to the contrary. But that means all ideas, including those who suggest that, in this case, sensitivity’s sake suggests a different location for the Mosque.

    Oh, and I hear many moderate Muslims interviewed and read about them in papers. I don’t see them identified (or if I do, it’s over my understanding of various sub groups within Islam). But my experience for the last 10 years is that if the proportion of Muslims interviewed is a reflection of the overall Islamic population, then 95% of Muslims must be moderate.

  • http://alislam.org Hasan Hakeem

    Mr. Lambert makes a good observation about the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.

    The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community argues that secularism is an Islamic doctrine. It recognizes that the Quran mandates Muslims accept the most capable person as their ruler, irrespective of faith. And once appointed, Muslims must obey whoever the ruler is. Beliefs of the Ahmadiyya Muslims are derived directly from Prophet Mohammed: “You should listen to and obey your ruler even if you [despise him].” A separation of mosque and state, therefore, is necessary.

    And while Ahmadi Muslims consider dissent to be permissible, spreading any type of discord is absolutely anti-Islamic. Finally, the Quran instructs Muslims to be grateful for any benefit they receive. Thus it is anti-Islamic and hypocritical for any Muslim to enjoy the advantages of living in America and create any sort of chaos or disorder.

    The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community personifies this ideal every day. Despite enduring decades of state-sanctioned persecution in the Middle East and South Asia, members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community have never once been guilty of retaliation. Under benevolent non-Muslim governments, their loyalty and adherence to the rule of law is no less prevalent.

    – Naseem Mahdi is national vice president and missionary in charge of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA.

  • kjs

    Dave (#40),

    Theocratic monarchies don’t set the standard for American religious tolerance.

    True, but a non sequitur. Gingrich’s statements don’t suggest we tolerate Islam the way Saudi Arabia tolerates Christianity & Judaism. His comments were specific to the Cordoba House proposal & its siting. If there is Saudi funding behind the project, then he is correct to point out the moral hypocrisy of insisting on building a new mosque in such a sensitive location, while in Saudi Arabia, synagogues & churches may not be built anywhere at all. (And again, if there is Saudi funding involved, it is newsworthy in this regard.)

    Legally speaking, the First Amendment is clear on this matter. But there’s a lot more to the situation than First Amendment rights. For toleration to work well there needs to be a certain degree of mutual respect. The whole purpose of their project is supposed to be building bridges between the Muslim community & others. But the Cordoba House proponents & defenders assert their rights against substantial public opposition, rather than seriously taking into account the very real sensitivities involved in the proposal to build a new mosque at a location that was devastated by Muslim terrorists. This does not appear to be especially respectful on their part. And we are not talking about a group of people that has been continuously oppressed here, & now finally someone is willing to stand up for them against the oppressors.

    I neither support nor oppose the mosque myself. I know that not all Muslims are terrorists, and I am not concerned that this mosque will somehow become a national security risk. But I do think the proposal is ill-considered, and the mission of building bridges would be better accomplished not stirring up such controversy by deliberately choosing to site the mosque at this location.

  • Jeff H

    @Ray Ingles – Your two points are outstanding, but they call into play a third: How many “blocks” away from equity/tolerance is legitimate concern, and how many more “blocks” away is bigotry? That’s the question that really confounds us.

  • http://www.mormoninmichigan.blogspot.com John Pack Lambert

    I think if there is bigotry it is in part fueled by the failure of journalists to do any real invetigation in this story.

    Twitter and facebook seem to have spawned a generation of lazy journalists who wait for news stories to develop instead of going and doing interviews.

    We are told that Daisy Khan, the wife of Imam Faisal, is a member of the committee for the Twin Towers Monument. This leads me to ask, if she is in such a public position than why does no one interview her. We know her husband once claimed that the US was an accessory before the fact to September 11th (although having said that in 2001 does not mean he feels so now), so why does no journalist feel a need to go and interview her to find out what her views are?

    Also, why are all the debates about whether American Muslims support the execution of apostates built around survey statistics from Pakistan?

    Why do journalists not ask people like Ms. Khan, Imam Faisal and other American Muslims if they support the death penalty for apostasy, and if not, than what they think the punishment should be.

    Of course, these two people are not all of American Islam, but these are legitimate questions that must be asked. If they give adequate answers and people persist in asking the same questions than there may be problems. However, since an Imam at Harvard has publicly stated he agrees with the death penalty for apostates and since a teenager in the US who had converted to Christianity from Islam fled her home because she feared violence from her parents (the reality of such a threat is not really material to the fact that this is a legitimate issue) I think this is a legitimate discussion.

    Also, since we know there are “honor killings” perpetrated by Muslims in the US, and since the media in general does not cover these incidents, it is possible some of these are murdering of children for apostasy. Unless some people in the media do an indepth study of the matter it is hard to prove this is not so.

    Many of these issues have no relevance to the acceptability on any level of the mosque. However since this has turned into a heavily debated topic the media should use this incident to shed light on American Islam, especially since it is one of the few times American Muslims have made headlines for something other than murder.

    The media is allowing the political reaction to become the controlling story by not giving us more information. This is partly a result of the fact that this story has been more covered in editorials than news articles, in part because with the proliferation of blogs associated with papers the number of editorials is on the rise while the number of news articles is shrinking, and more and more such articles are the sole province of the AP.

  • Justin

    Just as an aside…with all the tensions that this mosque is going to build, it is likely that this mosque will eventually be defaced or have some form of property damage/destruction happen to it at some point. What is likely to be the reaction abroad and the nature of reporting about such incidents should they happen?

  • Dave

    John @#57: I agree with you that journalists have allowed others to develop this story, though I don’t see it as extending to the places you do.

    Being a one-time Sherlock Holmes fan, I’m always intrigued by dogs that do not bark in the night. I recall that some organizations developed after 9/11 to look after the interests of survivors of the victims. As far as I can tell, none of those organizations has put its oar into this story. Why doesn’t some reporter check that out?

  • Ben

    We are told that Daisy Khan, the wife of Imam Faisal, is a member of the committee for the Twin Towers Monument.

    Hi John. I think we are starting to see some of that, just taking a cursory look at Google News. But the thing she’s most connected to in my mind is the effort to create female muftis, known as “muftiyyas,” in an effort to push Islamic jurisprudence toward a more female-friendly position.

    Here’s a 2009 interview where she talks about that.

    And here’s a story in The Christian Science Monitor about her initial efforts on this at a conference she launched in New York City in 2006.