So many Anglican questions, so little ink

20040611 2 hx0l8080 734vEvery time I sit down at a computer keyboard to write a 700-word column about the global Anglican wars, my head starts spinning.

There is just too much history, too much doctrine, too many names and too many competing networks, jurisdictions and churches. How can anyone keep all the facts straight? How can you describe the various sides in the debates in language that is accurate and as neutral as possible? I have the advantage, as a columnist, of being able to take a narrow focus on specific voices, issues and opinions. But I remember what it was like when I was a reporter covering news stories linked to this global conflict.

This is hard work and I know it. Believe me, I know it.

As I have written before, most mainstream reporters are framing their stories as if the votes by traditionalists to flee the Diocese of Virginia and the U.S. Episcopal Church are part of a national, American story. Period. This is wrong. This is a local story, a diocesan story, a national story and a global story. The global story is the biggest, since it involves the possible splintering of the third-largest Christian body in the world. And then there is the issue of when this national, Episcopal war began. It’s been raging, at the very least, since the late 1970s.

So how do you write that in a newspaper? Here is how veteran religion-beat specialist Laurie Goodstein of The New York Times opened her pre-game report on the Northern Virginia votes. People may dispute some of her choices later in the article, but I think this is about as good as you can get with the larger picture:

For about 30 years, the Episcopal Church has been one big unhappy family. Under one roof there were female bishops and male bishops who would not ordain women. There were parishes that celebrated gay weddings and parishes that denounced them; theologians sure that Jesus was the only route to salvation, and theologians who disagreed.

Now, after years of threats, the family is breaking up. As many as eight conservative Episcopal churches in Virginia are expected to announce today that their parishioners have voted to cut their ties with the Episcopal Church. Two are large, historic congregations that minister to the Washington elite and occupy real estate worth a combined $27 million, which could result in a legal battle over who keeps the property.

In a twist, these wealthy American congregations are essentially putting themselves up for adoption by Anglican archbishops in poorer dioceses in Africa, Asia and Latin America who share conservative theological views about homosexuality and the interpretation of Scripture with the breakaway Americans.

. . . Together, these Americans and their overseas allies say they intend to form a new American branch that would rival or even supplant the Episcopal Church in the worldwide Anglican Communion, a confederation of national churches that trace their roots to the Church of England and the archbishop of Canterbury.

The archbishop of Canterbury, the Most Rev. Rowan Williams, is now struggling to hold the communion together while facing a revolt on many fronts from emboldened conservatives. Last week, conservative priests in the Church of England warned him that they would depart if he did not allow them to sidestep liberal bishops and report instead to sympathetic conservatives.

And so forth and so on. Click here to read the follow-up story in the Times.

I have read quite a bit of the mainstream coverage this morning, and it is pretty much what I expected.

But if you really want to grasp some of the subtleties of what is happening, please pause for a moment and consider this joke that I first heard back in the mid-1980s, although I assume it is older than that. It’s a joke that says quite a bit about First World Anglicans on the left and the right. It’s a joke that is sure to offend folks on both sides, and this is how I heard the joke told long ago:

The year is 2010 and two graduates of the very conservative Anglo-Catholic seminary called Nashotah House are standing in the back of the Washington National Cathedral as the church’s latest presiding bishop and her lesbian partner process down the long center aisle, carrying a statue of the Buddha aloft while surrounded by a cloud of incense.

As they watch this scene unfold, one of the priests leans over and quietly tells the other: “You know, one more thing and I’m out of here.”

Note that this is a joke traditionists tell on themselves, one that produces bittersweet laughter. The joke is rooted in the fact that Anglicanism is famous for its ability to compromise on almost every doctrinal issue faced in the Communion.

But now some Episcopalians are taking some big risks involving property, endowments, careers and pensions, rather than compromise. It is a sign of the times that public advocacy of homosexuality has become the line that many cannot cross, after decades of quieter debates about the liberalization of of so many other doctrines linked to salvation, the nature of Jesus Christ, the resurrection, divorce, the blending of world religions, the ordination of women, etc. This may tell us as much about the news media as it does about conservative and liberal Episcopalians.

Then again, as the joke suggests, maybe not. As a conservative bishop once told me, Episcopalians have become so skilled at compromise that they struggle when asked to face an issue on which compromise is impossible.

It goes like this: One side says that sex outside of marriage is a sin. The other says that sex outside of marriage is not a sin. The Anglican compromise? Sex outside of marriage is occasionally a sin. Here’s another: Salvation is through Jesus Christ, alone. Salvation is not found through Jesus Christ, alone. The compromise? Salvation is occasionally found through Jesus Christ, alone, which means that the right was wrong in saying that salvation is found through Jesus Christ, alone, in the first place. Or something like that. The debates, in the end, center on how fast to move toward a modernized or compromised version of the faith. The method only allows change to move in one direction — away from ancient absolutes.

wcg 3 stpaulscrosierBut I digress. If you want to compare the competing views of events on Sunday, all you have to do — once again — is read the accounts in The Washington Times and The Washington Post. Read the stories and then ask yourself these questions.

• Can churches remain in sacramental Communion with one another when they disagree over creedal and sacramental issues?

• Would Episcopal liberals agree or disagree that the church’s doctrines have been changed in recent decades? If it is wrong to say that the doctrines have become more “liberal,” what is the accurate word to use that is not slanted? “Modernized”?

• We have to ask the big question again: When did the fighting begin?

• Is the fighting about one issue, homosexuality?

• Will the conservatives essentially become congregationalists? Will they become members of different or even competing American networks or churches?

• And, finally, here is a journalistic question that editors will have to answer, a question of newspaper style and Anglican doctrine at the same time. The question: Is Martyn Minns a bishop?

Note that in some newspaper stories he is still a priest and in others he is — in terms of Associated Press style — identified as a priest who is for some reason called a “missionary bishop,” while other Americans are identified as real bishops — period. Yet Minns was ordained by a large circle of Anglican bishops and archbishops, men whose standing is equal to that of their American counterparts.

Think about it. So is Minns a bishop when he is in Africa but not a bishop when he is in North America? Is he a bishop when he is in England? What about when he is on an airplane flying over the Atlantic Ocean? Does his status change from bishop to priest somewhere in the process of going through U.S. customs?

Or, just maybe, we have learned that newspaper editors get to decide who is a bishop and who is not. And, yes, some will ask: Is someone a bishop when American hands are placed on a person’s head and the proper prayers are said by Anglican bishops, but is not a bishop when African hands are placed on a person’s head and the proper prayers are said by Anglican bishops?

Perhaps this issue could be addressed in the Associated Press Stylebook.

You know that, sooner or later, it will be addressed at Lambeth Palace and, perhaps, in the U.S. Supreme Court.

The first photo is from the White House, taken during the funeral of President Ronald Reagan.

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About TMatt

Terry Mattingly directs the Washington Journalism Center at the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities. He writes a weekly column for the Scripps Howard News Service.

  • Larry Rasczak

    I think the race angle is out of place here.
    Yes, I have heard one joke about Turo and Falls Church now doing 419 scams for their new stewardship campaing; but over all I think that this is not a race issue, it should not become a race issue, and I am sorry to see that in 2006 there are still people who seem to think (and I use that word in its loosest possible sense) that everything is a race issue, or has a race angle.

    The 60′s are over people. Skin color is irrelevant. Get used to it already.

    ” It is a sign of the times that public advocacy of homosexuality has become the line that many cannot cross, after decades of quieter debates about the liberalization of of so many other doctrines linked to salvation, the nature of Jesus Christ, the resurrection, divorce, the blending of world religions, the ordination of women, etc., etc. This may tell us as much about the news media as it does about conservative and liberal Episcopalians.”

    I would speculate that the ideas of Malum In Se and Malum Prohibitum are in play here. Although the theologically inclined understand the importance of the wars over salvation, the nature of Christ, divorce, etc. for Joe Sixpack (excuse me “Joseph Chivas-Bourke-White III” – we are talking ECUSA here) in the pews, those things fall under Malum Prohibitum, or at least “less important than getting my kids to Cub Scouts”. On the other hand most folks view homosexuality as Malum In Se; but they take the Libertarian “live and let live” attitude to it.

    When they are forced to accept spiritual direction from someone who celebrates and supports a Malum In Se lifestyle… that is akin to being told to accept a blind man as their cab driver, or airline pilot.

    I’m reminded of the revolt of the French 2nd Colonial Division in 1917. They didn’t revolt because they were afraid of fighting, (they had been though Verdun). They revolted because they had no faith in their leadership. They would fight and die for France, but not for fools.

  • Erik Nelson

    I don’t know, Larry. Sometimes it seems there is a race angle to it. It’s not as if the theological left in the Episcopal Church is completely innocent of racial comments about African bishops in the past. For instance, certain comments by Jack Spong at Lambeth 1998? And I’ve heard enough at meetings of liberal Anglicans over the last five years to know that it is way too easy to dismiss the race issue. I’ve heard far too many jokes, far too many snide comments, to not take it seriously. It’s a question that needs to be asked, and hopefully answered. In this instance, I’m not sure skin color really is irrelevant, at least for some.

  • Sarah Webber

    I will be interested to see if ECUSA, so fond of compromise, will fight tooth and nail to keep the church properties. I don’t think it will reflect well on them if they do decide to contest the issue.

  • Larry Rasczak

    Erik, you would know better than I, not having been to any such meetings.

    Personally I wouldn’t trust the ECUSA leadership to find their feet in the dark given a map, a flare gun, two sticks and a flashlight; but even I thought enough of them to give them the benefit of the doubt on race. It makes me genuinely sad to think that you know what you are talking about and may very well be right.

  • http://www.accidentalanglican.net Deborah

    …poorer dioceses in Africa, Asia and Latin America who share conservative theological views about homosexuality and the interpretation of Scripture with the breakaway Americans.

    I’m glad to finally start seeing news reporting that acknowledges that “interpretation of Scripture” is a key factor in the coming split. Of course, she had to say “homosexuality and the interpretation of Scripture,” rather than “the interpretation of Scripture on such issues as homosexuality,” but in this area, you have to take your victories where you can.

    Would Episcopal liberals agree or disagree that the church’s doctrines have been changed in recent decades?

    You know, I doubt they would agree that Episcopal doctrine and/or practice has changed in any strict sense. I think the way most of them would characterize it is that Episcopalians have always been a “diverse” group, theologically and otherwise, but it has been infiltrated in recent decades by those who seek to enforce uniformity of doctrine and practice on people who were otherwise content to “go along to get along.” It would be an interesting question to put to Jefferts-Schori, if only to see how (not whether) she avoided answering it.

  • Michael

    Or, just maybe, we have learned that newspaper editors get to decide who is a bishop and who is not. And, yes, some will ask: Is someone a bishop when white, American hands are placed on a person’s head and the proper prayers are said by Anglican bishops, but is not a bishop when black, African hands are placed on a person’s head and the proper prayers are said by Anglican bishops?

    Someone’s biases are showing.

    Anyway, to me the answer depends on what the governing body says. Does the Anglican Communion (as opposed to a few random Anglican bishops) consider him a bishop? What does Canterbury (as opposed to Abuja and Fairfax) call him? Since there are serious questions about the recognition of the Episcopal separatists and their “bishop,” this isn’t an easy question to answer.

    It’s not black and white (pun intended) nor about black and white.

  • Dennis Colby

    Michael,

    Are Canterbury’s decisions on things like this binding? I genuinely don’t know: I don’t know how much authority the archbishop of Canterbury has in the Anglican Communion. Is he more like the pope or more like the ecumenical patriarch?

    Press style should hinge on whatever the answer is: if there is a central authority in Anglicanism which alone has the power to approve the title “bishop,” then reporters should withhold that title from anyone who hasn’t won that approval. If, on the other hand, it’s much less centralized, then I think self-identification should be the rule of thumb.

  • Michael

    Are Canterbury’s decisions on things like this binding? I genuinely don’t know: I don’t know how much authority the archbishop of Canterbury has in the Anglican Communion. Is he more like the pope or more like the ecumenical patriarch?

    I don’t know the answer either. I can’t imagine that individual primates can just go around appointing people as Bishop on a whim. No wonder journalists are confused.

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    Yes, Michael, your biases are showing.

    Under Anglican tradition, Minns is a bishop (so is Bishop Robinson).

    What is uncertain is whether he is a bishop IN THE UNITED STATES. But he is an Anglican bishop and, as far as I can see, the AP and other journalists have not made a point of stripping other bishops of their titles simply because they are ordained in other parts of the world.

    And the key issue for me is not race, but the issue of Africa vs. America. The Episcopal left loves people of all races who share its views.

    Race is not the issue. It’s the rejection of the Third World that is the issue, usually with American MDivs holding themselves as superior to Africans with British graduate degrees, even doctorates.

  • http://cinecon.blogspot.com Victor Morton

    I can’t imagine that individual primates can just go around appointing people as Bishop on a whim.

    Actually, they can. Michael is implicitly assuming as a model Catholic government with a pope (with his question “what does Canterbury say about this”). But the Anglican Communion is … well … a “Communion,” not a unified and universal church like Catholicism. It has always been a communion of national churches. And in the absence of a universal (“catholic”) church with a pope who holds appointment power, the logical (and historically taken) alternative was to a union of national churches, in which the national primate is the only logical person to hold appointment power. Also, a bishop is universally understood as someone consecrated as such by other bishops (or as Michael puts it … “just go around appointing people”).

    There narrow question of whether Mimms’ consecration in the Church of Nigeria is valid and licit is not a question. Mimms is a bishop. Period.

    The more-interesting question is “bishop of what.” CANA is a legitimate missionary diocese of the legitimate Church of Nigeria. The only reason I can see not to call Mimms a bishop is to say that the idea of the Church of Nigeria having a missionary diocese in the US oversteps the Nigerians’ authority.

    But (1) the Communion as a whole has approved alternate forms of episcopal oversight in North America because of the communion-breaking stances of the US and Canadian churches. So national boundaries simply are no longer sancrosanct in the Anglican Communion.

    And (2) several African churches have done work with their emigre communities in the US. Uncontroversially. To acknowledge their legitimacy, but not CANA’s, is … I won’t say the r-word, but I do think it smacks of a kind of ethnocentrism, that Christianity is somehow the possession of “Europe,” and that we must evangelize them, never they us.

  • Michael

    The Episcopal left loves people of all races who share its views.

    And the Episcopal right loves all people who will support their biases and schismatic behavior, even if it means embracing the likes of Akinola.

  • http://www.geocities.com/hohjohn John L. Hoh, Jr.

    Usually churches want to unite. The press thrives on discord. When unity as a goal fails or appears to fail, that makes headlines. Also, as the mainstream media tends to be more liberal than the majority of Americans, one can see how easy it is for reporters to see conservatives as “rebels” or “schismatics” against the main body. Now, if a liberal group were to threaten to leave, say, the Wisconsin Lutheran Synod, the Missouri Synod, or even Rome, the break-away groups would not be described as “separatists” but as groups fighting for a worthy cause.

  • http://www.getreligion.org/?p=2 Douglas LeBlanc

    My thoughts on Dennis Colby’s good question:

    The Archbishop of Canterbury is not prone to make periodic announcements on who is and who isn’t a legitimate Anglican bishop. He is vested with the authority to invite bishops to the Lambeth Conference, which sends a fairly clear message of which bishops or churches are in communion with Canterbury.

    Anglicans Online offers helpful reflections at its In Full Communion and Not in the Communion pages.

  • Michael

    Victor, you would acknowledge that your assumptions are in deep debate, and therefore the “Bishop of What” question is quite legitimate.

    Assuming you are correct that Mimms is a Bishop (while simultaneously being a rector of an Episcopal church in the United State, at least until yesterday), it is not unreasonable to assume that journalists could be very confused and that their motives are confusion, not racism.

  • http://www.geocities.com/hohjohn Ann-Annie Mouse

    I’m surprised Anglicanism has held together this long. Certainly they have a stronger stomach or will to compromise. Lutherans tend to splinter, regroup, resplinter, etc. Yes, the ALC, LCA, and AELC merge to form ELCA–but groups have splintered off and formed new synods very much regional in nature and moderate in position.

  • http://cinecon.blogspot.com Victor Morton

    I have heard another joke about the Nigerians (actually … I told it). I was at a gathering for a Catholic group with our chaplain a few weeks ago and I asked whether everyone knew what was going on with several Northern Virginia Episcopal parishes. Enough did.

    I told them, this fight is the ultimate proof that God has a sense of humor. That several of the oldest-line churches in the heartland of the Confederacy, with roots going back to the Antebellum South and the Revolutionary Era … that in order to maintain something related to historic Christian orthodoxy … that these churches are looking to take shelter in the oversight … of a bunch of Africans.

    Honestly, I have never heard my priest laugh so hard.

  • Dennis Colby

    Thanks to Douglas LeBlanc for the helpful links. The “Not in the Communion” page is particularly eye-opening. Who knew there were so many different Anglican groups?

  • http://www.ecben.net Will

    Theologically speaking, yes, a bishop is a bishop, wherever he exercises jurisdiction, or without jurisdiction at all. (Remember the “Diocese of Partenia”?) Perhaps MY bias is affected by associating with vagantes who display an obsessive concern with “valid orders” to the exclusion of other considerations. But that is my understanding; and trying to make out that someone is not a “real” bishop because one might not approve of his organization is uncomfortably reminiscent of the sort of people who insist that I am not a “real” Christian.

    And there is the matter of “invalid” vs. “irregular”.

    Hell, Aleister Crowley claimed to be a “valid” bishop.

    (While trying not to fan the flames, does anyone here think that Lutheran and Methodist “bishops” aren’t “real” because they do not hold the episcopal order in the same way that Catholic and Anglican ones do?)

    “You know, one more thing and I’m out of here.”
    Isn’t that the point? That the consecration of Robinson (and the ensuing we’ll-compromise-and-do-it-our-way) was “one more thing”?

    “The Anglican compromise? Sex outside of marriage is occasionally a sin.”
    This is not a joke. See Bishop Moore’s memoirs.

  • http://cinecon.blogspot.com Victor Morton

    Yes, but “bishop of what” matters don’t speak to question of what to call Mr. Mimms in an objective newspaper article.

    He is a bishop. Period.

  • Deacon John M. Bresnahan

    The issue of the media’s role in “ordaining’ Christian clergy through the way they manipulate words (Orwellian style) is interesting. Until the media decided women should be ordained, the proper word in the English language for a woman clerical figure was “priestess.” And virtually every media outlet refers to Catholic women having gone through a ceremonial charade they call “ordination” as having been ordained priests–even though all Catholic leaders call this a “crock”–in more polite words.
    So, needless to say, there are those in the MSM who are out to be the ones who determine who is REALLY an Episcopal bishop in this conroversy(actually none of them are REAL bishops in official Catholic eyes according to a Vatican decision made in the late 1800′s).

  • http://cinecon.blogspot.com Victor Morton

    (While trying not to fan the flames, does anyone here think that Lutheran and Methodist “bishops” aren’t “real” because they do not hold the episcopal order in the same way that Catholic and Anglican ones do?)

    I do (think they aren’t real). In fact, I don’t even see how there could even be a question in the matter for a serious Catholic or Anglican.

    (I speak there as a Roman Catholic rather than a newspaper editor, though.)

  • http://cinecon.blogspot.com Victor Morton

    Deacon:

    But the thing is, the ordinary usage of “priest” refers only to Catholics (or, sometimes derivatively, Anglicans). For example, all the standard jokes go “A minister, a priest and a rabbi …” When I was a boy growing up in Scotland (which admittedly is a somewhat unique environment), the Catholic vocabulary was “priest,” “father” and “chapel.” Protestants had “minister,” “reverend” and “church/Kirk,” and to use the wrong term wuz fighting woids.

    Once the heretics and schismatics “ordained” their club leaders, and newspaper style guides (unfortunately) have to acknowledge their existence, there’s no reason not to call them “ministers,” etc. But that’s a completely different kettle of fish from what to call pretend-catholic women’s “ordinations.”

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  • http://postwatchblog.com Christopher Fotos

    Here’s my take on the Washington Post’s coverage. Decent quotes from both sides in the U.S. but, as noted, the reporters failed to place the dispute into the global context.

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  • Mark H

    This whole thing saddens me. Whenever I see some church, denomination, or sect having such difficulties, I cannot help but think of the words of the Savior in the fifteenth chapter of Matthew where he tells his disciples:

    13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
    14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

    Those are some mighty harsh words, but it’s hard for me to watch what is happening here and not think of that passage. Are they not acting precisely like our Lord described — stumbling and fumbling around looking for direction?

    I think of the poor members of these congregations looking for spiritual leadership and finding confusion instead. One leadership says, “This is what the scriptures mean.” Another says, “No, this is what the scriptures mean.” “This person has authority.” “No, that person has authority.”

    It is all very sad.

  • Karen B.

    Terry after giving you grief on a few previous posts, let me just chime in and say I really appreciate this one. I got a great chuckle out of your section on the questions about Martyn Minns’ status and the line about whether his status changes somewhere over the mid-Atlantic.

    Nicely done and so many of us appreciate your comprehensive grasp of the background. Your previous post as well as to when the Anglican wars started is so helpful to be able to pass along to folks who continue to believe it is all about Gene Robinson. Thanks for taking the time on all this.

  • Jeffrey Weiss

    So where were all of you when those women decided they could be declared Catholic priests a few months back? Seem to me I heard nary a peep in defense of their “right” to be called what they declared themselves to be. My my memory could be fuzzy on that. Heh.

    Here’s the newspaper truth: Someone who wants to be called a bishop of the ECUSA needs to follow current ECUSA rules. Someone who wants to be some other kind of bishop must play by those rules. So Bishop T.D. Jakes is a bishop. But not an Episcopal bishop. No matter what his race.
    In a story that is all about the ECUSA and the fight therein, the goal of the reporter is to tell the story within the space allowed in a way that makes sense, is accurate, and does not confuse the reader. Which ain’t easy in this case.
    If Mimms wants to be a bishop in a Nigerian denomination, and if he follows the rules for that church, then he is. But he is not an Episcopal bishop and will have no authority over an ECUSA church unless the ECUSA says he does. And any mention of him in a story about the ECUSA must make that clear.
    Whether he is an “Anglican bishop” is a question that Canterbury or Lambeth must settle.
    Sez I.

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    Jeffrey:

    Ah come on man. You know better than that.

    You know that Anglicanism makes claims of universal, Catholic orders — at the very least within the Anglican Communion itself.

    What is Lambeth? What happens at the primates meetings?

    You are right that this is, ultimately, up to Canterbury and how Canterbury will or will not choose to vindicate the actions of the primates. That is where the church will split or not split.

    But Robinson is an Anglican bishop and Minns is an Anglican bishop or you have unilaterally declared ECUSA/TEC its own splinter church, a kind of liberal post-Anglican cult.

    Minns is not claiming to be an ECUSA bishop and you know it. He is claiming to be an Anglican bishop.

    The issue is why journalists want to settle this issue, when Canterbury has not.

    Why even bring up Jakes? You are smarter than that.

  • Stephen Noll

    “Anglicanism is famous for its ability to compromise on almost every doctrinal issue faced in the Communion.” I think this statement is disputable and needs clarification.

    To be sure, there is a latitudinarian strain in Anglican and Episcopal history, but along with it has been the maintenance of official doctrine (39 Articles) and liturgy (Book of Common Prayer) which is catholic and evangelical in the historic sense of the words. This duality has allowed evangelical movements to begin and even thrive under the Anglican banner. The Northern Virginia churches represent the fruit a large renewal movement dating back to the 1970s.

    It has been conventional wisdom in the Episcopal mainstream of the past 30+ years that Anglicanism is by nature open to all manner of innovation. Hence a Bishop Spong was tolerated and even served on the House of Bishops Theology Commission. However, many of us have never accepted this and have argued that while some matters are adiaphora (e.g., women’s ordination), the fundamental doctrinal and moral norms of Anglicanism cannot be altered. Up until 2003, it was possible to argue that the innovations in the EC were contrary to its official teaching. However, after 2003, we had to admit that the church had become officially heretical and incapable of reform. Hence the exodus.

    Martyn Minns and Truro Church are a classic case of NOT giving in or giving up. They have worked assiduously for the last decade to avoid this cataclysm, including sending a delegation to the Lambeth Conference in 1998. But they also are “wise as serpents” in seeing that the Episcopal Church is not going to turn back on the gay issue and other doctrinal deviations and will eventually drive all traditional believers out.

    Finally, the churches of the Communion, e.g., in the Global South, have never accepted that everything is open to compromise. They have simply lacked the political mechanisms to separate themselves from overt heresy. It has been almost a decade since Lambeth 1998, but they now seem ready to take action in spite of the Communion bureaucracy.

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    Oh, one other point.

    You remark on the ordained women is also strange.

    When bishops who are recognized leaders in the Roman Catholic Church ordain women, then your point will be worth taking seriously. Then you will have a global crisis in the Roman Church.

    This story has nothing to do with Minns declaring himself to be an Anglican bishop. It has to do with the leaders of one of the largest Anglican churches in the world declaring him an Anglican bishop.

  • http://cinecon.blogspot.com Victor Morton

    The clear difference is that the Roman Catholic Church has definitively said that ordination of women is impossible. (Not “we have a ban on it”; “it is impossible” … there’s a difference.)

    Mary Frances O’Gallagher can go get herself ordained in whatever sect or church she chooses to join or create. But such ordination is not a Catholic ordination. We have a hierarchy that decides such questions definitively, and it has done so. Any Catholic who says otherwise (including the ordinands themselves) is misrepresenting the Church.

  • Jeffrey Weiss

    Excuse me? Unless I’ve misread the wires, there are any number of Anglican officials in Africa who have declared that Robinson is not a “real” Anglican bishop. Ain’t that the point?

    I bring up Jakes to say that journalists should not be in the biz of deciding who is or is not a bishop. I think, really, I’m agreeing with you.

    And I brought up the women for exactly the reason you raise. “Recognized leaders” is exactly the issue. Recognized by who? If those women say they have been ordained as priests, I’m willing to give ‘em the title. But *not* to call them Catholic priests.

    (This is a journalism point, btw, not a theology question. What are the principles that reporters should use when deciding how to apply titles?)

    And I’m perfectly willing to call Minns a bishop as long as my story says what kind of bishop he is. And is not.

    As for whether Minns is an Anglican bishop…He says he is “Bishop of the Convocation of North American Churches (CANA).”

    And CANA, it says here, is not a branch of the Anglican Communion as such but an 0rganisation which relates to a single province. In Nigeria.

    Which means the lines are not so clear, I think? You may be absolutely right. But the AofC or Lambeth will need clear it up one way or the other.

  • Thomas Skillings

    I don’t think this is all that confusing actually. In terms of the Episcopal disagreements, these have been going on since the beginning of the church with disagreements about whether to split from the Chruch of England in the 18th century, to arguments about polity, theology and vestments, to arguments about birth control and divorce, all the way up to women’s ordination.

    In the Episcopal Chruch these issues are decided on the national level through a democratically elected house consisting of laity, priests and deacons, and a house of democratically elected and approved bishops. The conservatives now find themselves a minority in these deliberations, especially around the interpretaion of scripture in terms of homosexulaity. Now a small minority of no more than 10% have decided that they can have their way by ganging up with sympathetic voices from more conservative parts of the world.

    The thing I think the media misses about the Episcopal Church, is that there is not some small group a crazed bishops with curly minds making the decision to be inclusive of gay and lesbian people, rather the vast majority of the church, the people in the pews believe that the church should not reject practicing homosexuals. While many may disagree about whether homosexual behavior is holy or Godly, 90% of the Episcopal Church can stand to hang together while we figure all this out.

    As for Bishop Minns, of course he is a bishop. A bishop in the church of Nigeria, selected according to their criteria. Ancient Anglican custom, and recent consultations on the current troubles, are clear however that he should not usurp the authority of the local bishop in the locally recognized Anglican province. Both Archbishop Akinola, and Bishop Minns have now breached that custom.

  • albion

    Terry,

    As to the big question — when did the battle begin — in North America the line was drawn in 1977 with the Affirmation of St Louis (http://www.anglicancatholic.org/main/who/stlouis.html). That, of course, did not emerge out of nothing. It was in response to challenges to the faith that had been steadily gaining ground in the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Church of Canada over the previous 20 years or so.

    Entities such as CANA and the ACN are johnny-come-latelies and, ironically, may have within them the seeds of further schism. This is definitely thye case with the ACN — a federation that includes people who support women’s ordination and those who do not. I believe, but may be wrong, that the same is true of CANA.

    This is not to say that the Continuing Churches have a great track record. There are literally dozens of jurisdictions that claim to be part of that movement. That said, there are moves afoot to bring closer together the principal jurisdictions — the Anglican Catholic Church, the Anglican Province of Christ the King, the Anglican Province of America and the Traditional Anglican Communion.

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    JEFFREY:

    Robinson is a bishop.

    The Africans believe the Episcopal Church should not have elected and raised him to that position.

    The Americans feel the same way about Minns.

    But the two men are both Anglican bishops.

    Journalists are, in this case, taking the side of the US Episcopal establishment. It would be the same as if the journalists refused to call Robinson a bishop. Is anyone doing that?

  • Bart Hall (Kansas, USA)

    A) When did the fight really begin? In many ways it began as a secondary result of the Vietnam war. The very best gold-plated means of avoiding the military draft was to have a “deferment” on the basis of attending a theological seminary. Liberal opponents of their own personal involvement in the war flocked to seminaries in droves. A lot of them really didn’t give a rat’s rear-end about Scripture. Many of these men are now Episcopal bishops and still carry many of their same stale ’60s attitudes and agenda. Most of the old-line American churches are struggling with the same problem. At least in the case of ECUSA there is a largely faithful worldwide community to call them into account.

    B) What’s the fight really about? At its simplest, the authority of Scripture. The die was cast with the bishops’ resolution B-001 at the 2003 triennial Episcopal convention. That resolution sought to re-dedicate the church to the authority of Scripture as expressed in its own Articles of Religion, as well as to historical statements of faith from 1886, 1888, and even the 1979 Book of Common Prayer. It also stated that the church may not act against God’s authoritative word — IOW that Scripture is more important than church legislation.

    Nearly two-thirds of the bishops of the Episcopal church voted AGAINST that resolution. That’s where ECUSA lost me forever. I am a 16th-generation Anglican. My 5-great grandfather built St. John’s in Richmond, where Patrick Henry gave his “liberty or death” speech. The vote against B-001 showed ECUSA for what it had become; the Robinson case was merely a symptom.

    C) So what’s the big picture? God has from time to time transferred stewardship of His church from weak hands to stronger ones. Jerusalem –> Antioch –> Rome –> Ireland –> the “West.” Within Anglicanism the West have been weak and failing stewards for at least two generations. Much the same could be said of Roman Catholicism.

    Responsibility for the Church is now being handed to the evangelical “South.” One snapshot illustrates the contrast well. A generation ago both Uganda and the USA each had about 3 million adherants. Today ECUSA has declined by at least one-third. The Church of Uganda has trebled. Back in the old ‘Mother Church’ only a few hundred thousand actually worship. Similarly, across Latin America (which I know well) there are now more evangelicals in church on Sunday than there are Roman Catholics. In South America. Do you get the picture?

    Across most of the white, western Anglican Communion the churches and the people who “attend” them have simply lost their saltiness. God clearly recognises that situation, but unsurprisingly many humans are fighting vigorously to retain their power, wealth, and perks within the church as they have known it all their lives.

    So here we are, entrained in the Second Reformation. Like the first, the core issue is the authority of Scripture. The First Reformation sought to correct the human tendency to ADD things to God’s Word. This Second Reformation of ours seeks to correct the equally human, but perhaps even more damaging, tendency to REMOVE in practice any parts of Scripture that seem socially inconvenient.

    This will not be resolved in our lifetimes, but the issue is at least becoming clear.

  • Jim Douglas

    I was fortunate? to have stood on the floor of the House of Deputies, during the 2003 Triannual Convention, and saw the beginning of the demise.

    Liberals shouted “Gene’s a good guy”

    Scripture Scholars shouted “It’s aginst the word of God”

    Since the majority present on the Floor were Laity, who didn’t have a clue about Scripture, the approved Gene’s nomnination.

    Then the fun began…with Gene coming down from his secure hotel room with his significant other to glad-hand all – only problem? this was his bodyguard.

    I find it interesting that common folk, like you and me, think we can interpret the Bible…I heard it was the word of God….I wonder how us “commons” can interpret that?

    I remember the Archbishop of Nigeria, in his opening remarks saying, “You [America] sneeze and we catch a cold….

    I also heard a Court Referee state, “The parents fight and the children bleed”

    Seems the people in the pews are the bleeders.

  • Michael

    Journalists are, in this case, taking the side of the US Episcopal establishment. It would be the same as if the journalists refused to call Robinson a bishop. Is anyone doing that?

    Well, we live in the U.S., which is controlled by the US Episcopal estbalishment. Robinson is called a bishop because the US Episcopal hierarchy says so. And we are in the U.S. talking within the context of the US Episcopal church.

    As Jeffrey points out, there is reason for U.S. journalists talking about the Episcopal church to be cautious in calling Minns a bshop since his status is uncertain.

    You make a strong argument that he should be called a Bishop, but for journalists striving to be objective and neutral (as opposed to advocates), there is a good reason to be cautious and caution happens to be in line with the position of the US Episcopal hierarcy, as must as that pains you.

  • http://god-of-small-things.blogspot.com Bob Smietana

    Would any of these theological questions matter if the ECUSA’s pews and coffers ere full? The decline of the Episcopal church–and whether the leadership can right the ship–are driving this dispute. These parishes think the ship is going down and are getting off when the getting is good. The ECUSA national leadership think the ship is going in the right direction and any decline is a natural consequence of low birth rates–and not theological disputes.

    There’s not a lot of room for middle ground.

  • http://www.ecben.net Will

    The assertion that “CANA is not a branch of the Anglican Communion” makes no sense. In that case, the Convocation of American Churches in Europe is “not Anglican” either.

    And ordination is a sacrament, not an “appointment”, and the episcopate is a status, not a job. Nobody “declared” Minns a bishop, any more than you “declare someone baptized”, the MADE him a bishop. (And for the same reasons, the story quoted in a past post saying that a woman “declared herself a priest” suggests the reporter did not know what he was writing about.)

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    MICHAEL:

    What you are saying makes perfect PR sense for the Episcopal leadership.

    It makes no sense for media read around the world.

    American newspapers do not answer to the Episcopal leadership here in the USA. At least, I do not think they do.

  • Michael

    American newspapers do not answer to the Episcopal leadership here in the USA. At least, I do not think they do.

    Nor do they answer to the Bishop of Nigeria, at least not yet. I think the position the journalists are taking is a safe one, because it is made in the context of the United States and the Episcopal church. There is uncertainty, regardless of what the secessionist activists and those in the advocacy press say.

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    An advocacy model is precisely what we are trying to avoid here.

    Anglican bishops are Anglican bishops.

    Why is this merely an American story? What is your journalistic case for that? Other foreign bishops and other foreign dignitaries are to be striped of their titles because they are not approved by American functionaries?

    Could the AP Stylebook maintain that kind of standard? Does this America-first standard apply to all churches, religions, denominations?

    And also note that you assume the American position on the loaded word “secessionist.” That settles the issue that the media is supposed to be covering in a balanced manner. It assumes that the Episcopal Church claims trump those of the Anglican Communion. We do not know the answer to that question yet.

    Although, clearly, you do.

  • David Dyer-Bennet

    Usually churches want to unite.

    Yeah, right. That’s how we ended up with Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Lutheran, Methodist, Anglican, Baptist, Presbyterian, Unitarian, Universalist, Congregational, Quakers, Christian Scientists, Mormons, and many, many rather small sects (some with quite a long history). And of course the Mormons, and the Muslims (certainly not Christian, but equally certainly the result of a split, which is the topic). And, let us not forget, the Jews (of many flavors), the ancestral stock from which all of these things split off.

  • Michael

    What is your journalistic case for that?

    The churches are in the U.S. and are breaking away from the Episcopal Church of the United States. The legal conflicts that are going to arise will be judged under American law, by American courts, using American property law and the U.S. Constitution.

    Sure there’s a global story–the story that you advocate–but there’s a bias to placing it in a global view that is as deep as the bias of putting it in a U.S. view. To place it in the global perspective is to accept the bias of the secessionists.

    And also note that you assume the American position on the loaded word “secessionist.” That settles the issue that the media is supposed to be covering in a balanced manner. It assumes that the Episcopal Church claims trump those of the Anglican Communion. We do not know the answer to that question yet.

    Although, clearly, you do.

    Are they not seceding from the Episcopal Church? When they voted to leave the Diocese of Virginia and join a subset of the Nigerian Anglican church, they seceded from the Episcopal church.

    Again, your global perspective feeds a different bias and unquestionably that story needs to be told in the objective, non-advocacy press.

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    And the goal of this website is to urge reporters to find language that reports both sides as accurately as possible, without settling in advance the claims of either side. Your language settles the issue. I am calling for coverage that tries to be fair to the voices on both sides.

    At this point, the Anglican Communion has not settled who is and who is not in the right in this conflict inside the American branch of the Anglican Communion.

    I do not believe, at this point, that the Episcopal Church has seceded from the Anglican Communion. It has, however, made doctrinal changes that have angered the vast majority of the members of the Anglican Communion.

    We have to see what Canterbury chooses to do. We have to see who secedes from who. Until then, we urge the media to cover the story with neutrality and accuracy and without an American bias against people in other parts of the world.

    You are pro-American establishment.

    I am saying, we can’t used loaded language and settle this issue until Canterbury settles the global issue. Until then, try to remain neutral. First, do no harm.

  • Michael

    Until then, try to remain neutral.

    Not calling him Bishop or using the approach used by the AP describing him as a “mssionary Bishops” seems neutral to me and probably to most journalists covering the issue, thus the coverage. Sure it opens them up allegations of racism and bias from advocates like you, but I still think it was a reasonable call.

    Not every journalist making hour-by-hour calls on deadline have your indepth knowledge of the Anglican church. Your assumption of bias and racism can likely be tallied up to making quick decisions without being able to get a neutral Angilcan scholar on the phone.

    Unless you are now questioning Jeffrey Weiss’ sincere uncertainty about the proper terminology, the assumption that there is bad faith (as you also assumed in your critique of the AP coverage in another post) seems unfair and unreasonable.

  • Michael

    You are pro-American establishment.

    And you are pro-orthodox Anglican.

    But we both want objective, neutral reporting and people doing the best they can do, while avoiding being spun out of control by the advocates.

    At least that’s what I want.

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    I will address the AP issue in another post after I get my column done today. It is not “bad faith” to say that someone made a mistake.

    My advocacy is for the AP and other media to follow their own guidelines and to treat one Anglican bishop as they would treat another, without a pro-American bias.

    It would be wrong to cover this story with the Nigerian assumptions assumed and formed into loaded language.

    It is just as wrong to do the same with the American language. At least be neutral and strive to treat the CLAIMS made by both side the same, until issues are settled.

    Jeffrey would not feel uncertain about what to call any other Anglican bishop. Neither would you.

    To address Minns as the Rev. is to say that he is not the Rt. Rev. and, thus, to assume the US church is right.

    There is no way around that issue.

    It would be just as a wrong to say that he is a bishop in the true American church, or something like that. He is an Anglican bishop. Bishop Robinson is an Anglican bishop, whose status is controversial in other parts of the world. But that does not mean that neutral reporters should not report that — neutral fact — he has been raised to the status of bishop by Anglican bishops in good standing.

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    So to be neutral, one must use the language of the American partisans. This seems to be your consistent stance.

    I want to see the language of both sides used in as neutral a manner is possible, without the press deciding the issue.

    Would you agree that it would be wrong for a journalist, writing in a Nigerian publication that is linked to the Associated Press, to refer to Bishop Robinson as the Rev. Robinson, a “bishop” in the American church?

    Of course not. That would be inaccurate.

  • Jeffrey Weiss

    Getting back to journalism: The goal of the reporter is to get it right and not confuse the reader. “Missionary bishop” is a quick way to grant the man his title but make it clear that he has a status different from other bishops mentioned in the story. I dunno if I would have gone that way, but I think I understand the purpose.
    Continuing with journalism: This is a subset of the challenges we sometimes get in figuring out what to call people — without confusing our readers. Two other examples I’ve mentioned before here: Should Messianic Jews or members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints be referred to as Christians?

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    Jeffrey:

    It would be wrong to refer to Messianics as merely Christians and it would be wrong to assume their stance that they are Jewish. The issue with Mormons is similar. I once discussed that with a member of the 12 and he said that calling them “Mormon Christians” might be neutral. I don’t think so. I think you have to say that their status is debated.

    But calling him the Rev. Minns, a “missionary bishop,” is to make the assumption — incorrect — that he is not an Anglican bishop, even if a foreign Anglican bishop working in another land. It would be wrong to say he is an American bishop, in good standing with the American church.

    But he is no longer “the Rev. Minns.” An Anglican bishop is not Bishop Robinson here and the Rev. Robinson when he is visiting somewhere else. His status as a bishop does not change FOR THE MEDIA. It is not our role to settle that issue.

    We are not supposed to pick sides in these kinds of battles. It is not neutral to use the language assumed by one side of the fight.

  • Michael

    The goal of the reporter is to get it right and not confuse the reader. “Missionary bishop” is a quick way to grant the man his title but make it clear that he has a status different from other bishops mentioned in the story.

    I dunno if I would have gone that way, but I think I understand the purpose.

    I agree completely

  • Fritz

    There is a certain irony to the Nigerian ordination of Bishop Minns, going back to the foundation of the Episcopal Church. Our first bishop, Samuel Seabury, could not be ordained by the English bishops who had previously had oversight of the Anglican Churches in the colonies since he would not swear allegiance to the crown. Instead he went to Scotland where, on Nov 14th, 1784, the first American bishop was ordained.

    The Scottish Episcopal Church of the non-jurors was in Apostolic succession, and had no love for the English, so they were glad to tweak their noses a bit. In return the first American prayer book was modeled on the Scottish one, the Church was named similarly to the Scottish Church, and to this day we bear the cross of Saint Andrew on our shield.

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    So, for Michael and Jeffrey, Bishop Robinson is now — in global AP — the Rev. Robinson, with some “scare quote” title after that?

    So a combination of inaccurate title and “scare quotes” is now officially neutral?

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    JEFFREY:

    No need talking to Michael on this one.

    So let’s state the question to a working journalist.

    So a demoted title followed by a “scare quotes” reference is neutral?

    Would you accept the same combination for Bishop Robinson, during this period of controversy?

    BTW, before Michael ignores the obvious again, it is accurate to say that Minns is a missionary bishop of the Anglican Church in Nigeria. That’s a given. That’s accurate.

    The question is what does or does not go in front of his name.

    To say he is the Rev. Minns is to say that he is not the Rt. Rev. Minns.

    Are we all in agreement on that?

  • http://cinecon.blogspot.com Victor Morton

    WARNING: Somewhat off-topic

    The Scottish Episcopal Church of the non-jurors … had no love for the English

    You sure about that?

    This is a genuine question, borne of ignorance of that specific period, but that doesn’t sound right to me. I mean sure, every Scot dislikes the English more or even-more. But would that be true of the Scottish Episcopal Church? After all, they lost the Reformation battles in Scotland to the Presbyterians (who became “the Church of Scotland”). And, at least once Catholicism had been eliminated, they frequently called the English/the monarch/the C-of-E in on their side. It seems like the SEC would even then (certainly that’s its image now) be a club for anglophiles.

  • http://god-of-small-things.blogspot.com Bob Smietana

    Terry,

    Minn’s bio on the Truro Church website (http://truro.timberlakepublishing.com/content.asp?contentid=688) refers to him as Rev. Martyn Minns and as Bishop Minns but never as “Rt. Rev. Minns.” So is his own parish making commentary about his status? Or is the website editor not up to snuff?

    Or is it that your inner copy editor is making a mountain out of a mole hill?

  • Chip

    • And, finally, here is a journalistic question that editors will have to answer, a question of newspaper style and Anglican doctrine at the same time. The question: Is Martyn Minns a bishop?

    Note that in some newspaper stories he is still a priest and in others he is — in terms of Associated Press style — identified as a priest who is for some reason called a “missionary bishop,” while other Americans are identified as real bishops — period.

    Terry,

    Who is failing to call Martyn Minns a bishop by failing to use the honorific The Rt. Rev. ?

    You fault the AP, but you need to rant against Truro Church itself:

    In 1991 the Rev. Martyn Minns was installed as rector (i.e., senior pastor) of Truro Church in Fairfax, Virginia. He has continued Truro’s emphasis on partnering with the Global South to spread the good news about Jesus Christ and to work for social justice. In recognition for his work in worldwide missions, Minns was installed several years ago as an Honorary Canon of All Saints Cathedral, Mpwapwa, Tanzania; and in 2006 he was elected by the Church of Nigeria’s House of Bishops to serve as Missionary Bishop for a new orthodox Anglican presence in the western hemisphere called Convocation of Anglicans in North America (CANA).

    Granted, the last paragraph of his bio on the Truro website reads,

    In light of his recent election as a bishop, the proper form of address for him is “The Right Reverend Martyn Minns” which may be abbreviated as “The Rt. Rev. Martyn Minns”—though he prefers simply to be called by his first name, “Martyn”.

    but nowhere in the bio is he actually referred to as the Rt. Rev. though the beginning of the bio calls me The Rev.

    Can’t you cut journalists some slack? They should n better than the man’s parish howhe should be referred to?

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    Oh, it is my inner copy editor. No doubt about that.

    So Truro has it right and has it wrong. Clearly, not a site done by a journalist.

    But journalists should still get the title right. We are supposed to sweat the details.

    I wonder if Bishop Lee established, in earlier peace talks, limits on the degree to which Minns could used the title or wear episcopal vestments? It would interesting to ask about that.

    But the title for this man is Bishop or the Rt. Rev., under the Associated Press Stylebook.

  • http://cinecon.blogspot.com Victor Morton

    In 1991 the Rev. Martyn Minns was installed as rector (i.e., senior pastor) of Truro Church in Fairfax, Virginia.

    Actually, that’s does not deny his current episcopacy. In 1991 “the Reverend Minns was installed, etc.” is true because the man was not “Bishop Minns” at the time.

  • Seamus

    Excuse me? Unless I’ve misread the wires, there are any number of Anglican officials in Africa who have declared that Robinson is not a “real” Anglican bishop. Ain’t that the point?

    I have to believe you’ve misread the wires. The alternative is that those “Anglican officials in Africa” are Donatists. Not impossible, I suppose, but I’d need confirmation before I believed it.

  • Michael

    No need talking to Michael on this one.

    So let’s state the question to a working journalist.

    I’ll defer to Jeffrey’s experience as a religion reporter, but I want to clarify that I am a working journalist. At least my boss’ insistence that I meet a daily deadline for our readers, my Congressional press credentials, my paycheck, awards I’ve received, and my degree from one of the top journalism schools in the country would appear to support that.

    I’d add that I have no personal, professional, or financial ties to either side of this battle. I’m not sure we can all say that.

  • http://god-of-small-things.blogspot.com Bob Smietana

    Terry,

    The AP style guide might not have anticipated a case like Bishop Minns. Until this past weekend, when his parish voted to leave the ECUSA, he was a bishop in name only. Now that’s changed, but it’ll take all of us–including his own parish awhile to catch up with the changes.

    So to answer your questions, calling him “Rev. Minns” is not a commentary on his status as a bishop but a sign that Minns is an unusual case.

    Can we sweat the big stuff for a minute? Where’s the reporting on attendence, membership, giving, and other demographics to give context to this story? Gays and women priests generate a lot of heat but the effects of those things can’t be measured. The church’s hard numbers can be measured, and there’s a pretty compelling story there, one that undelies the current troubles, and is more substantive than whether or not Minns is a bishop.

  • http://god-of-small-things.blogspot.com Bob Smietana

    Or is there a rule that religion writers can’t count?

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    “I want to clarify that I am a working journalist. At least my boss’ insistence that I meet a daily deadline for our readers, my Congressional press credentials, my paycheck, awards I’ve received, and my degree from one of the top journalism schools in the country would appear to support that.”

    Fantastic.

    Who are you? Tell us all about yourself. What is your church background? Where do you attend now? Do you have any URLs to share?

    And this is the place to start?

    http://www.wcl.american.edu/faculty/triplett/

    Also, some of your fans have speculated that you are the scribe behind this website. Can you verify that for us?

    We have long appreciated your attentive readership and your criticisms, even if we disagree on some basic points in the philosophy of American journalism.

    Is this you? http://religiousleftonline.typepad.com/religious_left_online/

  • Pingback: Schism - The oldest Christian tradition at Bene Diction Blogs On

  • http://penitent-thief.blogspot.com/2006/10/how-we-do-church.html P.M. Summer

    Interesting to see so many of my old friends debating this topic. It’s rather like glancing into the rearview mirror and watching two drivers on the side of the road argue over who is at fault for their fender-bender.

    Got to keep my eyes on the road ahead.

  • Michael

    The only thing worse than being outed is being outed with such an awful picture.

    Yes that’s me (although I’d prefer that you eventually kill the link so it doesn’t live into eternity). And yes, I do contribute to RLO.

    As I said in our email exchange, I am not an Episcopalian and my only connection to the denomination is having attended a silent retreat once at the National Cathedral. I attend an ELCA church, but was raised in a UCC church, although a church that was from the German Reformed (as opposed to Congregationalist) tradition.

  • Beth

    A note on the term “missionary bishop,” which comments above seem to imply was invented by US media as a way to distinguish Minns from a “real” bishop. The term in fact has a long pedigree in Anglicanism, being used to refer to a (real) bishop consecrated with the specific task of evangelizing and overseeing the founding/growth of churches on a mission field – exactly Minns’ purview (at least as Nigeria, I assume, sees it). A number of missionary bishops are rather recognizable names among Anglicans: John Coleridge Patteson was Missionary Bishop of the Melanesian Islands…. Channing Moore Williams was Missionary Bishop in China and Japan. Several early American bishops in frontier days bore that title as well.

    In a quick internet search, I see that CANA itself has given Minns the title of “missionary bishop”: http://canaconvocation.org/about/bishops.php

  • http://www.tmatt.net tmatt

    Once again, folks, I am not questioning the use of the term missionary bishop, although the quote marks tick me off a bit.

    I am questioning calling a bishop “the Rev.” when he is, in fact, an Anglican bishop.

    Again, he is not a US bishop. He is an Anglican bishop and, under AP style, that makes him Bishop Minns or the Rt. Rev. Minns.

  • Karen B.

    Very interesting discussion, but since not a journalist, I won’t weigh in on the technicalities of the AP Stylebook.

    But as one who knows Martyn personally (I’m a Truro member), perhaps there’s one dimension to the debate I can add. Martyn doesn’t like titles much. He’s already since his election and consecration written 2 if not 3 articles for the Truro Family News or letters to the parish on the question of what to call him. Basically, he’s very happy to have all continue to call him simply “Martyn.” So it could be that Martyn’s own lack of concern (and even discomfort perhaps) about use of formal titles of address rubs off — perhaps even unconsciously — and influences those writing about him, causing it to seem as if his legitimacy is being questioned.

    Finally, Terry, I agree with you that it would be fascinating to know more of the details behind the very delicate agreement that Martyn & Peter Lee worked out a few months ago and whether there were requests made about Martyn’s vestments, etc. I noted in one story about the Truro vote that someone (David Virtue, maybe?) mentioned Minns’ purple sash on Sunday, suggesting it was related to his recent elevation to bishop. But I thought: It’s Advent. Purple is the color of Advent. Perhaps it was worn for both reasons. But indeed, in ECUSA, things like vestments can and do speak volumes.

  • http://blidiot.blogspot.com/ Raider51

    Re: Martyn

    Karen is correct — he has advised us time and again that this is how he prefers to be addressed. He was raised a Baptist in England and doesn’t seem to be big on titles. Conversely, I was very touched this past week when he was administering the Eucharist and he referred to me as “brother.”

    I don’t think all those Rt. Rev. titles will amount to much before the King of Kings.

    With respect to the sash — or Jedi waist band (as my kids and I think of it) — he’s been wearing that since before Lent started. It seems a reasonable and simple acknowledgement of his status as a bishop.

    Finally, I was glad to see Fritz’ comment above regarding Samuel Seabury — in my mind, the parallels are instructive.

  • Jim Douglas

    I love the way some dance around the issue of homosexuality and the Bible…guess some just wish to twist and turn the Word of God mold it to fit their wishes. Can’t imagine anyone would suggest “what God meant was”…

  • http://rotterdamus.blogspot.com erasmusrotterdamus

    A few attempted answers:

    • Can churches remain in sacramental Communion with one another when they disagree over creedal and sacramental issues?

    This is a HUGE issue, which is really in the background far more than it should be. And let us be clear that the divides are by no means simply between “liberal” and “conservative” but within both of those so-called “camps” there are the deepest of divides; so-called “low church” (which can be either liberal or conservative; it’s not simply a reference to aesthetics but first and foremost a reference to how one approaches tradition and ecclesiology) Anglicans oftentimes don’t really even care about the sacraments or sacramentality. It is really odd to say that one might have a “low” view of baptism or communion – and one wonders, does this mean “it’s optional if it makes you feel good” or does it mean “well, I guess we should do it” or “maybe it’s important”, etc. Perhaps “low church” should simply be denoted “lazy church” – again, with an emphasis that this is not primarily about aesthetics!

    • Would Episcopal liberals agree or disagree that the church’s doctrines have been changed in recent decades? If it is wrong to say that the doctrines have become more “liberal,” what is the accurate word to use that is not slanted? “Modernized”?

    A good question. I think that some might agree that they have changed, but I am increasingly thinking that most might not be aware of what they even were in the first place – and in historical and theological ignorance, the conservatives and liberals are usually evenly matched…

    • We have to ask the big question again: When did the fighting begin?

    Women bishops was big, yes, and ECUSA’s forcing the issue didn’t help. But, since the 1950s there have been the growth of three groups in the Anglican Communion – evangelical/Protestant, Anglo-Catholic, and liberal/Progressive – in a more deeply stratified way than there had ever been. For nearly a hundred years the Anglo-Catholics were dominant, and even where they are not dominant now the influence of their original movement is still felt deeply – bowing at communion, candles on the altar, the eucharist as the main service even!, and a whole lot of other stuff – but the evangelical/Protestant wing is new in its militancy, much like the liberal/Progressive wing. Not since the 17th century have Puritanism, on the one hand, and Deism, on the other hand, been held out as viable options for Anglicanism. The current divides, which are deep and insurmountable, have been projected back upon the last 500 years in a historiographical move by both of these groups, yet the history just isn’t there. Even the phrase “low church” actually owes its origins to the mid-18th century (see chap. 1 of Evangelicals, Etc.; sorry that I forget the author’s name) so before that initial epithet – which was directed against the Latitudinarians, perhaps precursors to today’s “Progressives”, but it’s really not that easy, for there is no genuinely continuous “tradition” from their time today – the truth of the matter is that “low church” simply did not exist. And again, we are back to my first point: “low church” is not primarily about aesthetics!

    • Is the fighting about one issue, homosexuality?

    For far too many, yes. Homosexuality is the one issue that Protestant and Anglo-Catholic Anglicans can agree on; perhaps it is one of the few. But sadly, it’s a total straw man, a scape goat…although the “conservatives” have the Bible (all two or three passages) on their side and the historic practice of the Church (always drawn on when it’s convenient, and utterly ignored the rest of the time by these same great orthodox leaders), they aren’t really able to articulate any kind of vision – and we perish for lack of vision (someone tell these bishops to read the OT Wisdom literature!!!), and lack of wisdom because of a lack of knowledge – and so “the Bible” becomes roughly synonymous with “we don’t believe in gay sex”. There are, of course, a few other issues, which boil down to bumper-sticker level sloganeering, such as the uniqueness of Christ, which means that one can’t say “well, a non-Christian might actually not go to hell” without being castigated – which means, of course, that many great figures throughout the ages will be castigated heretics by these same “orthodox” Anglicans. Rather than encouraging people to think, or study and dig deeply into the Scriptures and Tradition, rather than encouraging people to pray, and rather than encouraging people towards that ever-necessary Christian virtue of charity – which St. Paul, in the Bible, calls the greatest of all!!! – the orthodox bishops and priests just let things fest online and appoint snarky folks to lead…charity has been utterly butchered by a chubby, self-righteous and moralistic, Bible-believing “orthodoxy” that, in its many, many failures shows itself to not be orthodox at all, merely homophobic. It’s tragic. But again, what do you expect when the “orthodox” leaders evince no real sign of deep understanding? This whole fight is so American – one soundbyte after another!!! And yet, each side accuses the other of selling out to “the culture” when, in fact, boths sides are deeply encultured, merely divided on a single issue (undoubtedly of some importance, although with fully one-third of the population eating itself to death, one wonders why the self-proclaimed orthodox don’t spend more time talking about the sin of gluttony, but it just goes to show that homosexuality, not the Bible, is the real issue…)

    • Will the conservatives essentially become congregationalists? Will they become members of different or even competing American networks or churches?

    It’s quite likely. But, whereas the Anglican (most of us, I think, are not quite Anglo-Catholics but between the evangelical/Protestant wing and the Anglo-Catholic wing, we swing towards the Anglo-Catholics, because they do the liturgy and have changed the way we do the liturgy – see above – and they love saints and feast days and they take the creeds and sacraments seriously, etc.) and Anglo-Catholic wings will likely take with them the better part of the tradition – all 2,000 years of it – one must wonder: what will evangelical/Protestant Anglicans take with them? Perhaps John Stott, yes; perhaps J. I. Packer’s version of Puritanism – which, btw, has no real historical precedent. They will take with them a rather one-sided version of Thomas Cranmer. But, evangelical/Protestant Anglicans have never, at any point in the past 50 years, really sought to hammer out a history, or a tradition; Paul Zahl’s “The Protestant Face of Anglicanism” does nothing to help clarify the matter, although he takes some cheap shots at the Anglo-Catholics. So, how will evangelical/Protestant Anglicans understand themselves? That will be interesting. But, I predict it will also be sad. Even if they keep the liturgy, a liturgy without history is worthless; an inability to dig into the depths of the past, or a refusal to do so is nothing other than a painfully shallow way to die…

    • And, finally, here is a journalistic question that editors will have to answer, a question of newspaper style and Anglican doctrine at the same time. The question: Is Martyn Minns a bishop?

    In ++Peter Akinola’s orbit, yes. Whether this will stay this way remains to be seen.