8 Times The Jehovah’s Witnesses Were Wrong About The End Of The World

My Jehovah’s Witnesses are relentless. It began back in 2014 when I first moved to the town I’m in now. I wrote about it exactly four years less a day ago in How (Not) To Deal With Jehovah’s Witnesses At Your Door. The two young women who knocked on my door that day were eventually replaced by a lovely old lady, who I wrote about two years ago in Atheist Life Hacks: How To Find A Missing Jehovah’s Witness. By this time, I was being visited on the regular by a visibly unhappy, though affable, woman we’ll call Jennifer. She seemed to want to be my friend more than anything, her face washed with desperation every time we spoke. It became less and less about the Bible and more and more about what was going on in each others’ lives.

But then Jennifer disappeared, too. For weeks, I went without the expected knock on Friday afternoon. When it finally came back, there was a new woman on the other side of the door. She wasn’t nearly as friendly as Jennifer had been, and I could see right through her. Kate was her name. I asked Kate where Jennifer had gotten to, and Kate told me that Jennifer had had a mental breakdown. Kate and I didn’t have three visits together before I moved to a whole new neighbourhood. Months went by without any Bible chatter on my front stoop, but sure enough, one windy Thursday morning, there was a knock. I texted my husband after, “they found me!” and they’ve been here every week since.

You, like many other atheists who’ve heard me talk about my Witnesses, are probably wondering why on God’s green earth (no holy) do I bother. Why don’t I tell them to get lost? Slam the door in their faces? Why do I put up with it?

The reason is pretty simple: I don’t think they want to be doing what they’re doing. Sure, some Witnesses probably love it, and you can tell which ones those are, but I have my doubts about 80-year-old women in the heat of the desert sun and desperately sad and lonely housewives who suffer a mental breakdown after door-knocking for a few months. These people get doors slammed in their faces all day. They’re spoken rudely to; they’re called names, hidden from and verbally abused. Here I am, an atheist who talks about the arguments for god all day on the internet, and I don’t have time for a couple minutes of chatter about it in real life? With people whose day is going miserably and who will light up at the opportunity to chat nicely? Of course I do. Of course I will. And so, the saga continues…

One of the topics I love to discuss with a fresh set of Witnesses on my stoop is predictions. I love to ask them what they think of the many end-of-the-world predictions made by the Watch Tower Society. How am I to take the promise of God’s Kingdom here on Earth seriously, if all the other promises made by the Witnesses have failed? Do they know just how many predictions there have been that have not come true? Of course, it helps if you have specifics you can bring up, so I’ve put together a list. A list of all the instances the Jehovah’s Witnesses predicted the end of the world or similar events and failed miserably. Here they are:

Girl you know it’s true…  via GIPHY

1. 1877 – The Watch Tower Society believed that Jesus had been amongst us since 1874 working towards his kingdom on earth. The Watch Tower Society predicted that Christ’s kingdom on Earth would be complete in 1914, and the saints would be carried to Heaven. Essentially, the end of the world as we know it. Of course, 1914 rolled around and the closest we got to the end of the world was a world war. Perhaps the Society meant to say that the world would end for 18 million, but for the rest of us, it would be business as usual. We’d all go on living, man would keep ruling and Jesus would keep up his epic game of hide and seek.

2. 1916 – The Witnesses foretold that the first world war would lead to Armageddon and soon after, Christ’s kingdom would be established on Earth. Of course, I am sure many of the men who fought in WWI felt as though it was some form of Armageddon, but alas, it was not and mortal men continued to rule our planet after the war ended (albeit not so well).

3. 1920 – In the wake of their first world war prediction failing, the Watch Tower society jumped right back in the saddle with a brand new prediction. By 1925, the kingdom of God would be established on earth. From Wikipedia:

God would begin restoring the earth. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful patriarchs would be resurrected to perfect human life and be made princes and rulers, the visible representatives of the New Order on earth.

I assume many Abrahams, Isaacs and Jacobs were born in 1925, but none of them turned out to be God’s little buddies. Whether the Society was wrong or Abe, Isaac and Jacob lost their invites, the prediction failed, and I could have predicted that.

4. 1938 – The Witnesses stopped conceiving children and getting married because they were told Armageddon was looming. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that premarital sex will jeopardize their friendship with God and that masturbation is a no-no, so I imagine there was a whole crowd of frustrated door-knockers back then. Either that or the Witnesses became one big sea of sin.

5. 1942 – The Watch Tower Society swore that Armageddon was just around the corner. Four years after the moratorium on marriages and babies – that’s four years of marital bliss (and god-approved shagging) some Witnesses missed out on.

6. 1961 – Armageddon was predicted to arrive before the year 2000. It must have been on the same flight as Y2K.

7. 1966 – The Witnesses predicted that the world would meet its “wicked end” and Christ’s kingdom on earth would be established by the year 1975. They believed that 1975 would be 6000 years of man ruling on earth and that the seventh millennium was for good ol’ Jeeboner to rule. Unless Jesus ruled with disco, this failed to come true.

Ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin’ alive, stayin’ alive… from HolyBibleVerse.com

8. 1984 – The Witnesses reiterated that the end of the world would come before the end of the 20th century. Although the world appeared to come crashing down around Big Billy Clinton, mere mortals have continued to rule down here on earth. Some of them better than others. *cough* Bush *cough* Trump.

And here we are, 18 years into the new millennium and there is still no sign of the big guy anywhere. Witnesses will tell you that their interpretation of Bible events, dates and names is not error-proof but that just leads me to ask them why I should believe anything they say? After all, they’ve been wrong more times than my husband. Not a track record I’m going to bet my life on.

If I may, I’d like to make a prediction of my own. Recalling this information and bringing it up the next time the Kingdom Haller’s come knocking may make them feel uncomfortable. They may recoil a little bit, a look of confusion might wash over their faces but that’s all good. It means they’re being forced to think about something they may not have thought about before. It means you’ve put a hairline fracture in their faith. With subsequent visits, that fracture could grow into an irreparable chasm and we could have one more heathen amongst us.

What are some of the things you like to bring up with Jehovah’s Witnesses? Or do you even bother talking to them? Let me know in the comments!

Image: Tiia Monto [CC BY-SA 3.0], via Wikimedia Commons

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  • Tawreos

    “Kate and I didn’t have three visits together before I moved to a whole new neighbourhood.”

    Exactly how evil was Kate that she made you move to a whole different neighborhood? =)

    I used to have a lady that would knock on my door every Saturday morning. I was nice, I would take their literature and toss it in the trash the moment I closed the door. That lasted for a couple of months until I had a Saturday morning with a hangover, and the dog got loose, and about 19 different things going on, none of which were good. I don’t think I made a good impression that day since they have not been back to knock on my door for 5 years now. Apparently telling the witness at your door that you are glad they are there because this human body needs to feed is going to put you on the do not knock list.

  • hahaha, yes, I would guess that would do it!

  • Brian Davis

    Back in my college days I had a Jewish roommate. One Saturday morning he spotted some missionaries making their way from house to house on our street. I don’t recall if they were JWs or Mormons. He ran to his room to get his yarmulke, and then laid in wait for them. When they knocked on the door he threw it open and boomed, “HOW DARE YOU INTERRUPT MY SABBATH!!” they backed away with profuse apologies.

  • What used to be a Jehovah’s Witnesses Kingdom Hall, their equivalent of a church, is half a block from where I live. So we used to get regular visits, for all the good it did them. In recent years it’s been an Ahmadiyya Muslim mosque, which I find kind of appropriate. They’re considered heretics by a large percentage of mainstream Muslims, just like the Witnesses are considered not really Christian by many.

  • Haha, that’s perfect!

  • So, it’s like the outcast temple. Yes, sometimes I feel bad about wasting the Jehovah’s time. There’s no soul to save here, ladies.

  • CoastalMaineBird

    I guess a bloody cat doll with a pentagram cut into it is a bit over the top?

  • Go for it! Report back on the reaction.

  • MystiqueLady

    The only time I had a conversation with JWs was on one day when, while answering the door for their knock (I was being tag teamed — there were two of them), my cat raced out. I had to push past them to go after my cat. Wouldn’t you know it, they tried to block my way. And I said, not kidding, “You’re too late. I just sold my soul to the Devil last night.” (This was during the Satanic panic) And proceeded to chase down my cat (too bad it wasn’t black — it was a calico who LOVED to munch on birds).

    Looks on their faces: Priceless!

  • LeekSoup

    Much appreciation for the phrase “god-approved shagging”. I’m going to use that.

    We don’t get many JW’s door knocking round here, mainly I think because we live in a ‘down to earth’ neighbourhood where they are likely to get the “Fuck off! SLAM!” response. We did have a mormon missionary all the way from Utah once. My wife had a nice chat with them about the national parks we’d visited. I think he was a bit stunned to find someone in the UK who had been to Utah. We never saw him again.

  • Erik1986

    For some reason – at least in my area – simply saying “I’m Catholic,” send them politely away, “sorry to have bothered you….”. (?) I don’t find it necessary to tell them that I stopped believing – Catholic or otherwise – at about age 12. *shrug* Whatever works!!

  • otrame

    My method for dealing with them is to smile very kindly at any children with them, say something like “Isn’t that a pretty dress” or what ever, before the adults can get a word out. Then, still staring at the kids, still smiling pleasantly I say, “I don’t want you to waste your time here. I am an atheist and I am very happy being godless.”

    That is good for a at least 5 years of no repeat calls. I’m pretty sure it isn’t the atheist part, It’s the being nice to their kids part + the atheist part.

  • Harry Kays

    Bypass the ridiculous article . First Century Christians were wrong too about many things . Imperfect humans make mistakes.
    But the Pope is infallible were told . But the burning of John Wycliffe on a stake or murder by the Catholic Church and Pope Gregory for translating the unknown Latin Bible into the common language of English was a mistake first century Christians did not make.

  • Donna in Texas

    The JW’s kept me and my wife from seeing our 2 nieces for years because we are lesbians. My wife’s brother was married to a JW and they had the 2 girls. We have a bit of a contact now with the older one as she is now in her 20’s. The end result is it is a little difficult to want to chat with the faithful on Saturday mornings. Their beliefs hurt people. They hurt us.

  • Gregory “Wolfe” Woodbury

    Wile living in NYC, some JW’s came knocking on our door at the end of NYU’s (Bronx – a long time ago) Fraternity Row. Momma told them she wasn’t willing to discuss anything with tem several time. Finally, one of the elder gentlemen asked “But you are interested in Gawd, aren’t you?”

    Her reply: “Not particularly. Good Day.” [shutting the door.]

    It still tickles me to recall to this day. (That was 55 years ago!)

    Just the other day, I was on the city bus from downtown to home when a pair of Mormon “Elders” (missionaries) got on and sat nearby. [One reminded me sooooo much of the protagonist in the musical “Book of Mormon” it was incredible.] I mildly asked where were the bicycles today? (That has been the favorite mode of transport here lately.) The one Elder said they were too inconvenient when going to the grocery store, so they had backpacks and were taking the bus.

    I was in a good mood, so I carried on…
    I told them my Dad was born in St. George, and lived in Toquerville. Interested, the “Elder Cunningham” type revealed that he was also from the same area. I carried on, and we talked about how my Dad ended up in Durham NC after going to BYU. So for about 20 minutes we chatted about his path into Professor of Computer Science and Biomathematics at Duke University. It finally came to light that I was a non-attending Unitarian Universalist Humanist, but that I perhaps knew more about their own religion, and most others, than they did. Fortunately (for them) we were just about to the store they were going to, and they had to rush a bit to get off the bus. In a number of ways, I sort of feel that I provide some of Mormon Elders a service similar to the care you show for your Witnesses. [It is just too sad that the local Mormon Bishops warn the missionaries to avoid me, by name and address! I used to be a lot more aggressive toward them, but that was about 9 – 10 years ago. I’ve gotten mellow in my retirement.]

  • Marshall

    To quote Yoda

    “Difficult to see.
    Always in motion is the future.”

    The understanding of upcoming Bible prophecies will change. Any understanding of it is speculation. But our core message has always stayed the same: Vindication of Jehovah’s Sovereignty by means of his Kingdom ruled by his Son Jesus, that will put an end to failing earthly kingdoms and bring about the fulfillment of Gods original purpose for the earth.

  • ORAXX

    The JW’s make the mistake of being too specific in their prophecies. A good prophecy is both vague and at least marginally plausible. Using this standard, almost anything will come true if enough people keep looking for events that seem to fit.

  • Victor Orazi

    Jehovah’s Witnesses practice mental and spiritual masturbation and that is dangerous for your wellbeing.

  • Snagglefritz Sagenschnitter

    Same here. “I’m an atheist” was enough for them to back off instantly.

  • Gaynor Kaiser

    Yep, the JW have a long history of being wrong about most everything. Btw, you’d enjoy reading the book, “End of the World Propheteers: Exposing the Truth about Apocalyptic Predictions,” by Dr. Lance Moore. Footnoted/referenced, proving the fallacy of modern apocalyptic thinking and “The End is Coming” guessing game.

  • J Solo

    Speaking as a former Jehovah’s Witness-turned-Atheist:

    You missed the two biggest ones in their history: 1914 and 1975.

  • UnworldlyTruth

    The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, 1968
    ed., p. 95
    “But there are people still living who were alive in
    1914 and saw what was happening then and who
    were old enough that they still remember those
    events. This generation is getting up in years now.
    A great number of them have already passed away
    in death. Yet Jesus very pointedly said: ‘This
    generation will by no means pass away until all
    these things occur.’ Some of them will still be alive
    to see the end of this wicked system. This means
    that only a short time is left before the end comes!”

  • Haha, too bad you didn’t capture that on video!

  • Yeah, we live in a pretty secular neighbourhood, too. I think we get so many because we are in such a small town so they can get around to everyone easier.

  • I wonder why they respond that way to Catholics?

  • Oh, that’s good. They never bring their children with them to my door, unfortunately.

  • This is a good point and I’m sorry you experienced that.

  • Yes, I think engaging with them is important – exposing them to ideas they’d likely never thought of before. I can’t believe they warn people about you, that’s hilarious!

  • MystiqueLady

    Pre VCR. (Sigh)

  • Yeah, I don’t believe that and the only evidence I have to go on is a list of failed predictions. So, doubt it.

  • You should advise them!

  • Mine all know I’m an atheist. They still come.

  • Oh, thank you! That does sound interesting.

  • Both were mentioned.

  • ORAXX

    LOL, I’ll pass.

  • Linguagroover

    I ‘engage’ their cart ministries re child abuse, the blood transfusion ban, shunning (religiously motivated ostracism) and their downer on higher education. Some of them pack up and move off; some demonstrate shunning; a few are open to some sort of conversation. None of them is too keen on ‘When did you first realise this was the right death cult for you?’ PS In the UK, more than a thousand JW entities enjoy charity status, so are subsidised by taxpayers to spread the Watch Tower bile.

  • I had a friend who was shunned by his family after they caught him smoking. He lived on the streets after that. The last time I saw him, he was strung out on some street drug. Of course, I see the harm that comes from this particular belief system, but I think the best way to get people in it to see the problems with it, is through calm, thoughtful conversation.

  • SoSueMe

    I say “We’re happy, healthy atheists here!” with a big smile on my face and they can’t get off the porch fast enough.

  • Bob Jase

    The JW’s weren’t wrong, you just don’t appreciate the theory of Progressive Enrapturement.

  • Idaho Spud

    Same with me. “I’m an atheist” seems to encourage them.

  • Fred Rickson

    We spend the summer in West Yellowstone, Montana, a flyfishing mecca. A few years back some old goat in Florida got his followers to send him everything because the world was going to end on a specific day. I had a T-shirt made which said…”The rapture is coming, send me your flyrods.” I expected some sour faces, but all I got were smiles and thumbs up while walking around town.

  • monkE602 .

    obviously they’ve never been right about the end of the world because A – we’re still here, and B – it’s all bullshit anyway.

  • Oh, yeah. They want that juicy heathen soul!

  • Haha! Sometimes I wish I could silence my conscience and start a religion so I could cash in, too.

  • EllyR
  • HFR

    I tell them that they are the ones that are searching for answers “obviously they are and they know it”,and that they have come to the right place, then proceed to tell them that all religion is nothing but primitive superstition, to believe in a religion one must be addicted to the supernatural because all Gods are supernatural. Look up “superstition” in a dictionary there are no lies in a dictionary.
    Tell them to go to the local library, there is a book there called “Cults”in-between Jim Jones massacre and Charlie Manson family you will find the Jehovah witness church “FACT”. the book is real and it is in the library. BTW, any religion invented by a person is a cult, name one of the thousands of religions that was not invented by someone?

  • HFR

    The 144,000 that are to be taken up? The 360 degrees of the zodiac times the four seasons multiply by a hundred, = 144,000, all religion is astrotheological folks.
    72 virgins x 5 cardinal points, well it’s 360 degrees again, all the religions are lies. Read “Greatest story ever sold”.

  • RichardSRussell

    When they come around proffering their Watchtowers, I always say I’ll take one of theirs if they’ll take one of mine. Then I dig out a copy of “The Sacred Book of Kush” (which folds down neatly to credit-card size) from my wallet and hold it out to them. They usually back slowly away.

  • RichardSRussell

    The difference between a cult and a religion: In a cult there is a person at the top who knows it’s a scam, and in a religion that person is dead.

  • RichardSRussell

    Let me also recommend When Time Shall Be No More: Prophecy Belief in Modern American Culture by Paul Boyer (1992).

  • JimmieBallgame

    Fifteen years ago, when I saw who it was through the peephole, I opened the door in my normal indoor Florida attire. When I asked them if I could help them, they quickly backed away as I stood there completely naked.

    Two good things came from that. My wife screamed at me for 5 minutes but then didn’t talk to me for a week and a half. They must have a nationwide database because I’ve never had any more visits from missionaries since then.

  • Mark Caesar

    Thanks, Godless Mom. I’ve made a list of those failed enb of times predictions and I’ll keep it handy for the next time they come calling. You’re absolutely correct in saying they will dismiss those predictions by saying they were interpreted wrong, that pens the door to ask whether they can believe anything at all in their book. I am so going to press them on that one.
    Well, it’s a toss-up as to whether I do that or talk to them with no pants ur underpants on.

  • Donna in Texas

    Thanks. I really feel sorry for the JW members as they are locked in an abusive situation. I’m grateful we are getting to know our niece and I think by our patience she was able to see she had been lied to about her aunts.

  • E.A. Blair

    I had a friend whose father kept telling thatm, “I’m a nudist.”, which also worked.

  • E.A. Blair
  • Steve Williams

    Is your wife a Jehovah’s Witness? She did shun you for a while.

  • JimmieBallgame

    No. But if that’s how it works, I may try to get her to join.

  • Marshall

    Why would you (or anyone ever) put your faith in speculation? Thats dumb. You’re right though, evidence is heavily important for belief in anything. For bible belief look to its archaeological and historical evidence, look at its 100% success rate in terms of prophecies that were meant to happen in the past and that were fulfilled (not speculation about upcoming prophecies to be fulfilled). Look at where it touches on science. Thoroughly examining evidence for and against on both sides, and rebuttals to evidence. Only after this can you make an informed decision based on a complete set of data (because failed speculations from a group of fallible men is hardly a complete set of evidence to base doubt on. The bible record shows only fallible men following God- Noah, Job, Moses, David, Peter etc. with the only exception being Jesus). Or do nothing. Everyone has the right to choose what they want to or don’t want to do when it affects no one else. However, neglecting to do so removes any credible authority one can have when discussing this subject 😛

  • Steve Williams

    Literal LOL 🙂

  • Judgeforyourself37

    Could I be a Jehovah Witness? No, but that does not mean that being a Jehovah Witness is not for some people. I have always liked the quote from the Dalai Lama, who is reported to have said, when asked what is the best religion in the world, “What ever religion makes you more compassionate, more kind to others, more supportive of those who need acceptance and support, more generous and less prone to judgement, that is the best religion for you.”

  • JWs used to come to our house every other month for a couple of years. It was always Josh and a trainee. My husband liked talking to Josh for awhile and I think Josh wanted the trainees to meet a real live atheist.

  • Carole Anderson

    The jw have not come ’round lately. My bf answers the door and calls for me because he knows I love to talk with them. I spent two years attending Asbury Christian college in ky. There I learned French and read the bible. To continue in French I immigrated to France. To continue my study of scripture, debating missionaries is one of my favourite activities. I try to stay nice but I do get passionate coz Jehovah is so creepy & unworthy of worship. Last time jw came around was over 6 months ago.

  • Gregory “Wolfe” Woodbury

    I think that also. It sort of applies to my brothers who also live in town, but I am the primary culprit since I tend to go out of my way to engage the wanderers in the darkness.

    To add insult to injury…
    As a child on a trip to Utah for my grand-parents 50th wedding anniversary and family reunion, one of my uncles was herding his passle of kids, cousins and others on a grand family sealing ritual at the St. George Temple. Much to my parents’ dismay, I got roped into the crowd. No one at the Temple did any real vetting of the youngsters in the group beyond getting their names and birthdays. Momma had no idea I had been on that outing until the Temple Endowment workers called a month or so later to verify some genealogical data.

    This particular experience can lead to a great deal of confusion on the part of the missionary Elders who want to push forward on some of the more esoteric points of LDS theology. It also startled the local Ward priesthood when I was in their Boy Scout program. They tried to push some of the “non-mormon” kids to conversion (illicitly) and I told them I had already been to Temple!

    I sort of suspect that the local Ward folks will continue to “just mention” that the Elders should avoid engaging with me.

  • It can be pretty fun to talk to them!

  • haha, “A real live atheist”. I imagine there are quite a few atheists in my town as Canada is pretty secular, so I’m not special to them like that.

  • it sounds nice, but the Witnesses actively indoctrinate children and shun those who don’t fall in line. I’ve seen a friend fall victim to the shunning when he ended up on the street at age 15 because he was caught smoking cigarettes. He was excommunicated and shunned by his family. So what if this religion makes one person more compassionate – it harms people so deeply that nothing can excuse it.

  • There are mostly Catholics in our town, or Asian families who are devoutly Protestant. There are enough people who identify as Jewish that our school district gets all Jewish holidays off. From what I can tell among the Catholics and Jews is that you do what you need to so yiur kud completes confirmatiin or bar mitzvah and when the younhest kid is done, you don’t go to services much anymore. Most people identify with a religion, and there are few open atheists. In fact, we identify publicly as nonreligious and have only told a handful of close friends we are atheists. The term atheist is often off-putting.

  • rationalobservations?

    Having reached a certain age, level of knowledge and lack of reticence in educating and informing the gullible and the ignorant – it was one of my regular pastimes to enter into conversation with the minions of the cruel and dishonest Watchtower organisation. Many have been lulled into a false sense of security by my cheery “Yes! Of course I will be happy to discuss your religion and your texts and bible with you”. Of course they are less happy when the more blatant lies within their leaflets are pointed out and the absence of historical evidence for anything they claim together with the thousands of discrepancies between their version of bible and the oldest/first prototype bibles cobbled together in the 4th century.
    It’s not surprising that these acolytes of dishonesty no longer knock on my door.

    https://monicksunleashed.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/99-percent-atheist.jpg
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SLVOq77YxcI/WdD49ptS1SI/AAAAAAAAlOs/FqEnF3E72zoc4HIK4i_jqfQAVYLOGvclACJoC/w1435-h1221/20171001_101457.png

  • rationalobservations?

    Fun for the informed atheist – not so much fun for the ignorant and gullible victims of Watchtower organisation brainwashing.

    https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/secrets-of-the-watchtower/

  • rationalobservations?

    Understandable. But you are missing out on the fun of seeing the faces of the delusional, gullible and brainwashed when you debunk their bunkum.

  • Mac McCarthy

    I like that. You get your licks in without lengthy argument.

    I just say, “Not interested” and they thank me and go away. I have a security screen door they can’t see through very easily and I never open it to strangers, so that makes it easier.

    One of my bosses told me that in her youth, her widowed father was visited by Adventists. and he made the mistake of arguing with them, which brought them back several Saturdays in a row; then he made the really big mistake of inviting them in to discuss. Before long, he had converted. She never forgave him. As an adult she had a hard time finding dates who were atheists, until she joined a dating site, where she could make ‘atheist” a filter. She met a really nice guy a few weeks later. I attended their wedding – he’s a great guy. They are happily married with (atheist) kids. I am so glad — she is a great person who deserves the happiness.

  • Oh, that’s a great ending! Technology makes some things so much easier. I was lucky enough to be living in a pretty secular part of the world when I met my husband. The odds anyone I met would be religious were pretty terrible.

  • Very true.

  • Yes, this is what I hear from many people in places like the US.

  • puptentacle

    My dream is to eventually get the Mormons and the Witnesses on the sofa at the same time and let ’em duke it out.

  • Linguagroover

    I agree. Sadly, I’ve found the older carters tend not to want any conversation.

  • Make sure to record it.