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Genesis 2-3 Part 3 John Calvin (RJS)

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John Calvin of course was one of the principal leaders of the reformation in the 1500′s.  Calvin got many things right and, like everyone, many things wrong.  In the protestant church in general and in the more reformed branch of modern evangelicalism in particular we benefit from his insights and we have payed and are paying a price for some of his errors. John Calvin wrote a commentary on Genesis – and his commentary I think sheds light on the current science and faith debates in our church.

This commentary is readily available – and can be found electronically at Christian Classics Ethreal Library (direct link to Calvin’s Genesis Commentary Vol. 1 ).  It is also available from Amazon, Calvin’s Bible Commentaries: Genesis, Part I: (Forgotten Books)
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Calvin opens his comments on Gen 3 with this:

In this chapter, Moses explains, that man, after he had been deceived by Satan revolted from his Maker, became entirely changed and so degenerate, that the image of God, in which he had been formed, was obliterated. He then declares, that the whole world, which had been created for the sake of man, fell together with him from its primary original; and that in this ways much of its native excellence was destroyed. But here many and arduous questions arise.

What do you think of this introduction to Gen 3?

 

Calvin’s introduction is a theological statement, and Calvin here, as was his custom, reads the text in the context of his theology. The reading is generally literal, except when it conflicts with his theology (then it is “accomodation”),
and he reads between the lines in a fashion consistent with his
theology.

Calvin’s commentary makes interesting reading.  It shows clearly two things – first that most of the difficulties that I have with the text of Gen 3 predate Calvin, they are nothing new – certainly not modern discoveries.  He addresses most of them in his commentary, although I find many of his answers less than satisfactory. And second – that Calvin reads his entire gospel message into Gen 3 and Gen 3 through his gospel message.

The framing story through which Calvin reads Gen 3 is this:

God created a perfect world – a paradise, no inclement weather, no frost, thunder, drought, or hail, no “death”, no dissolution of human bodies …

The man and woman disobeyed thereby introducing death, and destruction into the world and changing the very essence of their being and by the way the physics and matter of the world as well, causing the divine wrath of God to be always before their eyes.

This disobedience and its consequence was predestined from the very beginning.  Evil existed before the world was created dating from the fall of Satan and we do not and need not know these details.

The covenant with Israel – preparatory for the coming of Christ.

God sent his Son Jesus to bear the punishment for our sin rooted in Adam’s sin. This also was predetermined from the outset.

With the resurrection God is victorious. Men may be restored to life through the resurrection.

(I am not sure off hand of Calvin’s eschatology – but that’s the capstone)

Perhaps the key question then is how much of it did Calvin have right?

How does this shape the science and faith discussion?


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As you think about this consider these quotes from his commentary on Gen 3:

On the snake (Calvin does talk about how the snake “miraculously” talks – but I won’t pick that quote):

But it appears, perhaps, scarcely consonant with reason, that the serpent only should be here brought forward, all mention of Satan being suppressed. I acknowledge, indeed, that from this place alone nothing more can be collected than that men were deceived by the serpent. … Add to this, the baseness of human ingratitude is more clearly hence perceived, that when Adam and Eve knew that all animals were given, by the hand of God, into subjection to them, they yet suffered themselves to be led away by one of their own slaves into rebellion against God. … What can be imagined more dishonorable than this extreme depravity? Thus, I understand the name of the serpent, not allegorically, as some foolishly do, but in its genuine sense. … The question, however, is not yet solved, why Moses has kept back the name of Satan. I willingly subscribe to the opinion of those who maintain that the Holy Spirit then purposely used obscure figures, because it was fitting that full and clear light should be reserved for the kingdom of Christ.

On evil before the fall:

Many persons are surprised that Moses simply, and as if abruptly, relates that men have fallen by the impulse of Satan into eternal destruction, and yet never by a single word explains how the tempter himself had revolted from God. … But Moses here passes over Satan’s fall, because his object is briefly to narrate the corruption of human nature; to teach us that Adam was not created to those multiplied miseries under which all his posterity suffer, but that he fell into them by his own fault.

On the necessity of the Fall:

It offends the ears of some, when it is said God willed this fall; but what else, I pray, is the permission of Him, who has the power of preventing, and in whose hand the whole matter is placed, but his will? … I hold it as a settled axiom, that nothing is more unsuitable to the character of God than for us to say that man was created by Him for the purpose of being placed in a condition of suspense and doubt; wherefore I conclude, that, as it became the Creator, he had before determined with himself what should be man’s future condition.

On the temptation of Eve – Eve fell when she listened to the snake.

And when the woman saw This impure look of Eve, infected with the poison of concupiscence, was both the messenger and the witness of an impure heart. She could previously behold the tree with such sincerity, that no desire to eat of it affected her mind; for the faith she had in the word of God was the best guardian of her heart, and of all her senses. But now, after the heart had declined from faith, and from obedience to the word, she corrupted both herself and all her senses, and depravity was diffused through all parts of her soul as well as her body

The nature of the sin - part of this we see above, they listened to the snake.

What was the sin of both of them? … Therefore, unbelief was the root of defection; just as faith alone unites us to God. Hence flowed ambition and pride, so that the woman first, and then her husband, desired to exalt themselves against God. … Here also monstrous ingratitude betrays itself. They had been made in the likeness of God; but this seems a small thing unless equality be added.

(I basically agree with Calvin on this one – the nature of the sin)

On the timing of the Fall

The opinion has been pretty generally received, that they fell on the day they were created; and, therefore Augustine writes, that they stood only for six hours. … As for myself, since I have nothing to assert positively respecting the time, so I think it may be gathered from the narration of Moses, that they did not long retain the dignity they had received; for as soon as he has said they were created, he passes, without the mention of any other thing, to their fall. If Adam had lived but a moderate space of time with his wife, the blessing of God would not have been unfruitful in the production of offspring;

On the consequences for the woman:

Thus the woman, who had perversely exceeded her proper bounds, is forced back to her own position. She had, indeed, previously been subject to her husband, but that was a liberal and gentle subjection; now, however, she is cast into servitude.

And on account of the man the world is cursed:

After he has briefly spoken of Adam’s sin, he announces that the earth would be cursed for his sake. … the earth was cursed on account of Adam. … The Lord, however, determined that his anger should like a deluge, overflow all parts of the earth, that wherever man might look, the atrocity of his sin should meet his eyes. Before the fall, the state of the world was a most fair and delightful mirror of the divine favor and paternal indulgence towards man. Now, in all the elements we perceive that we are cursed.

Truly God pronounces, as from his judgment-seat, that the life of man shall henceforth be miserable, because Adam had proved himself unworthy of that tranquil, happy and joyful state for which he had been created.

Moreover, Moses does not enumerate all the disadvantages in which man, by sin, has involved himself; for it appears that all the evils of the present life, which experience proves to be innumerable, have proceeded from the same fountain. The inclemency of the air, frost, thunders, unseasonable rains, drought, hail, and whatever is disorderly in the world, are the fruits of sin. Nor is there any other primary cause of diseases.

Death through Adam:

Now, however, after he had been despoiled of his divine and heavenly excellence, what remains but that by his very departure out of life, he should recognize himself to be earth? Hence it is that we dread death, because dissolution, which is contrary to nature, cannot naturally be desired. Truly the first man would have passed to a better life, had he remained upright; but there would have been no separation of the soul from the body, no corruption, no kind of destruction, and, in short, no violent change.

Finally the coming of Christ:

Reference to Christ is spread throughout Calvin’s discussion.  Everything is tied to the restoration of life in Christ.  God’s preordained solution to the predestined problem.

And now , lest , etc . There is a defect in the sentence which I think ought to be thus supplied: ‘It now remains that in future, he be debarred from the fruit of the tree of life;’ for by these words Adam is admonished that the punishment to which he is consigned shall not be that of a moment, or of a few days, but that he shall always be an exile from a happy life. …  not that the Lord would cut him off from all hope of salvation, but, by taking away what he had given, would cause man to seek new assistance elsewhere. Now, there remained an expiation in sacrifices, which might restore him to the life he had lost. Previously, direct communication with God was the source of life to Adam; but, from the moment in which he became alienated from God, it was necessary that he should recover life by the death of Christ, by whose life he then lived.

  • Glenn

    “that man became entirely changed and so degenerate, that the image of God, in which he had been formed, was obliterated.” I have found very few Reformed people willing to go as far as Calvin on the issue of Total Depravity. And I find this statement hard to swallow and even harder to believe. Where is the place of common grace or the goodness of God’s creation in a statement such as this?

  • Travis Greene

    Much to agree and disagree with here. But I’m struck in particular by this line: “I hold it as a settled axiom, that nothing is more unsuitable to the character of God than for us to say that man was created by Him for the purpose of being placed in a condition of suspense and doubt”
    This may be the root of the Calvinist/Arminian debate. Because what Calvin calls “a condition of suspense and doubt” I would call “creative tension” or “freedom and possibility”. What Calvin finds scary or unworthy of God is, I think, just what God does in Deuteronomy. He sets before us death or life, blessings or curses, and encourages us to choose life.
    And I would say that nothing is more unsuitable to the character of God than ideas like double predestination.

  • Rick

    “The inclemency of the air, frost, thunders, unseasonable rains, drought, hail, and whatever is disorderly in the world, are the fruits of sin.”
    Is thunder or frost bad? I ask this because I wonder if an impact of the fall was more our perception of such things, rather than the thing itself. I know some in the early church dealt with this as well (Origen and Augustine? I don’t recall off-hand).
    Are things as disorderly as they appear? Science has, in some ways, helped us understand the amazing complexity, and patterns, of forces and events that, at one time, seemed “disorderly”. Now they seem to proclaim an amazing Creator.

  • Randy

    I have great difficulty with this line:
    “He then declares, that the whole world, which had been created for the sake of man, fell together with him from its primary original; and that in this ways much of its native excellence was destroyed. But here many and arduous questions arise.”
    I have difficulty with this anthropocentric notion that all of creation was made FOR THE SAKE OF MAN.
    Ps. 104 and others demonstrate the wonder and majesty of God’s creation and his joy at it in ways that show humans to be nearly incidental. “It was good” several times before God made humans in his own image.
    Conundrums such as the existence of “poor weather,” sin and death, etc. before humans arise from such anthropocentrism. If thunder is a result of sin, I as an organic gardener am glad for it. The lightening fixes Nitrogen in the soil that helps my tomatoes, beans, lettuce, peppers and other vegetables grow without use of petroleum-based fertilizer.
    Peace,
    Randy

  • http://virtuphill.blogspot.com phil_style

    Interestingly I recently came accross some text from Theodore of Mopsuestia (circa 400 CE) discussing the use of interpretive tools to understand Genesis. Although Theodore argues in favour of a literal (similar to Calvin) reading of Genesis, I don’t think he does so convincingly. What’s more, Theodore recognises the opinions of those within Christendom that read Gensis very allegorically, even though he derides their opinions. It’s clear to me that there were a variety of ways of understanding both Genesis and Paul within the Christian community at this time (more than just Augustine – who was a contemporary) from reading Theodore, but that the ‘literalist’ interpretation won out, and became largely the accepted method.

  • http://joeyspiegel.wordpress.com Joey

    @ Randy #4
    It may be a both, and. Creation is good independent of man. It glorifies God, not man. But man was placed over creation to be stewards of and participators with it. Creation then has a role as a supporter of God’s Mission because it is what sustains humanity. It was made for us, but not for our glory.

  • http://www.tgdarkly.com/blog dopderbeck

    Obviously Calvin was wrong that in an absolute or “scientific” sense, frost, hail, etc., preceded the Fall. However, I think his instinct is correct — because it’s implicit in the Biblical text — that the possible range of potential human experiences of such events changed after the Fall. In the “garden,” there was a potential for human beings, in perfect fellowship with each other and with God, to manage and “cultivate” the creation in productive and beneficial ways. After the Fall, things like storms became potential threats in a way that did not have to be if the primordial humans had chosen to remain in fellowship with God and with each other.
    In this regard, I actually like the supralapsarian aspects of Calvin’s thought here about the necessity of the Fall. We don’t know, can’t know, and in a sense don’t have to explain, how humanity’s relationship to the natural world could have been different absent the Fall. This is a potentiality known only to God. But it also is one He knew we would not realize, and the world we live in is shaped by this supralapsarian knowledge of God. Perhaps God even created in advance the “broken” world outside the “garden” knowing that Adam and Eve would not realize the potentiality of the “garden.”
    I’m grasping at something metaphysical and maybe neo-Platonic here: what “reality” is there to a potentiality known to God but not realized by humanity?

  • Travis Greene

    Joey @ 6,
    You’re right that it’s a both/and. I think it’s equally accurate to say that we were made for creation, in the sense that we were made to participate with God in creation. Creation (including us) was made by, through, and for Jesus. Of course, Jesus is not just Son of God, but Son of Humanity, so maybe creation was made for us (or Christ-in-us, or us-in-Christ) in that sense. This is all very mysterious, but whatever it means, it should lead us to humble responsibility for the world, not exploitation and neglect.

  • http://homewardbound-cb.blogspot.com ChrisB

    “What do you think of this introduction to Gen 3?”
    Barring the “obliterated” remark, it seems to be a straightforward reading of the text.
    The same can be said for most of his comments. The taken with Romans, Gen 3 does seem to suggest that the earth was cursed on our account, and it seems logical to assume that it occurred at that moment.
    The only reason any of us think differently is that someone has come along and told us that either Genesis or our interpretation of Genesis is wrong. And all of this is our attempt to show that it’s the latter.

  • dopderbeck

    ChrisB (#9) — I’m don’t think it’s a straigtforward reading of the text. The text, after all, is very specific about the curses — (1) the serpent having to crawl on its belly; (2) an increase in the pain of Eve’s childbearing, and (3) “thorns and thistles” making Adam’s work laborious. There is nothing in the text at all here about lightning, hurricanes, vegetarian lions suddenly becoming carnivorous, etc.; and the curse on Eve directly implies that she knew pain before the Fall. It seems to me that the only reason we read all of these extraneous things into the text is that we’ve been conditioned by the imagination of prior exegetes such as Calvin to do so.

  • ChrisB

    “It seems to me that the only reason we read all of these extraneous things into the text is that we’ve been conditioned by the imagination of prior exegetes such as Calvin to do so.”
    And Paul.

  • RJS

    ChrisB,
    We’ll get to Paul, starting Thursday in fact, but I agree with dopderbeck. I think that Calvin reads into the text beyond even what one can get from Paul.
    I think that Calvin’s view of depravity and wrath go beyond Paul. In particular I think that this statement: The inclemency of the air, frost, thunders, unseasonable rains, drought, hail, and whatever is disorderly in the world, are the fruits of sin. goes well beyond anything one can get from Paul and reflects a misunderstanding of how the world functions. There is no indication in Gen 2-3 that the world was in stasis – there was to be time and growth, animals were to be fruitful and multiply.
    There are a number of issues at play in the science/faith discussion; but the view of God’s creation that makes frost a result of sin is a real conflict.

  • Joey

    ChrisB @ 11
    Even so, it would be an argument made from Paul then, not from Genesis 3. It isn’t helpful to make arguments that aren’t there.

  • Travis Greene

    “lightning, hurricanes, vegetarian lions suddenly becoming carnivorous”
    Don’t remember Paul talking about any of that. Creation groaning, experiencing birth pangs, in bondage to decay, certainly. Death enters through the sin of humanity, absolutely. But all the usual stuff about the weather and vegetarian velociraptors is an extrapolation of what Paul says in Romans, not something inherent and obvious to the text.
    I’m not against some kind of ontological fall. And I believe that humanity’s sin has had profound implications for the created world, just as expressed here in Genesis (and Romans). But the Bible simply doesn’t give us an exhaustive and systematic answer to the question of what the world was like before sin.

  • ChrisB

    “The inclemency of the air, frost, thunders, unseasonable rains…”
    “Unseasonable” is probably the key word. I have not read the commentary myself, but from the description it sounds like he’s saying “bad weather” results from the fall — e.g., thunderstorm (with associated damaging characteristics), early/late frosts that kill crops, and everything else where nature turns against us.
    Yes, Genesis only says “thorns” and Romans only says “decay,” but it’s not exactly a great leap to suggest that the fall turned nature against us somewhat. For all you think he’s engaging in great eisegesis, I don’t think that’s been the common view through history.

  • RJS

    ChrisB,
    I don’t think that it is a great leap to suggest that the fall turned nature against us somewhat. Like Travis, I’m not against some kind of ontological fall.
    I do think that the extremes to which this has sometimes been taken are “great leaps” and that these extremes lead to some of the most fundamental problems in the science/faith conflict.
    So – I think we need to look at the texts and what they meant in their context, we need to look at how the texts have been read and read into at various times, and we need to look at the theological impact of these various readings.
    Many texts have been read differently or with different nuance at different times in the history of the church – and it isn’t necessarily true that the older reading is always the more correct.
    Most of us here – certainly both of us – hope that the historic consensus reading of Mt 18:15-20 is wrong. Cyprian ca. 250 AD, for example, makes a big deal about this – if we are not in communion, in union, with the one and only church we are out of luck. The individual has no standing before God – if the church casts him or her out he or she is out. Galileo caved in on this to an extent – because the understanding was the church was right, even if it was wrong.
    I think that we need to read scripture in the context of tradition, in full knowledge of tradition, but not bound to traditional readings.

  • BeckyR

    I think humans bearing the image of God was not obliterated at the Fall. We still find that image in moralities, justices, love, creativity and so on.

  • ChrisB

    “Many texts have been read differently or with different nuance at different times in the history of the church – and it isn’t necessarily true that the older reading is always the more correct.”
    Absolutely.
    “I think that we need to read scripture in the context of tradition, in full knowledge of tradition, but not bound to traditional readings.”
    Absolutely. We also need to stop and acknowledge that there’s more than one kind of tradition — or rather, there’s “tradition” and the spirit of the age.
    I’ve been trying to figure out what gets me so cheesed off on these posts, and I think I’ve finally figured it out.
    Whether people intend to or not, there is a great deal of “if only everyone was as enlightened as us” on these posts.
    For example: “Calvin here, as was his custom, reads the text in the context of his theology.”
    As does everyone else.
    And “The reading is generally literal, except when it conflicts with his theology … and he reads between the lines in a fashion consistent with his theology.”
    As does everyone else. But there seems to be an implication that poor Calvin was simply reading the scriptures through his special lenses while we are being honest to the text.
    Well the truth is we would read the text the same way he did except Darwin and Dawkins have told us not to.
    I say this as someone very sympathetic to the old earth view, but we need to take a step back and listen to ourselves.
    We believe that a man was tortured to death, stayed dead for three days, then got up and walked around then flew up into the sky and disappeared.
    Moreover, we believe that all of this was predicted with uncanny accuracy hundreds of years beforehand.
    But then we read Genesis by the “commentary” of modern men who are anti-theistic in general and anti-Christian specifically. They decided a priori that there is no supernatural and then told us what to think about a book that claims to be completely supernatural. And we let them.
    I’m not suggesting we be anti-science or hyper-literalists. I am suggesting that perhaps we should apply just a little of this skepticism to our own age.
    And if Calvin et al were a product of their age, then we are a product of ours, and we should approach their work with a little patience and humility.

  • http://www.tgdarkly.com/blog dopderbeck

    ChrisB — I certainly didn’t intend to convey the impression of just blowing off Calvin — in fact I think I said I agree with some of his basic insights. However, the fact is that we live in a time when we know far more about how the natural world and its history than Calvin did. The average middle school child has a more accurate and detailed understanding of nature than did Calvin. This doesn’t take anything away from Calvin — he was a genuis. It’s just an artifact of history. Nothing is gained by ignoring what has been learned in the inervening centuries.
    You make a good point about maintaining an appropriate critical distance, to the extent possible, from our own times. Yet, Truth is Truth and empirical evidence is empirical evidence, whenever and by whomever it is discovered. We can be “critical” but still be “realist.” The odd thing is that Christians who go on about the dangers of postmodernism often don’t seem to realize how radically post-modern and anti-realist their own worldview is. If empirical Truth that seems to conflict with scripture must a priori be considered illusory, on what basis can the claim be made that there is such a thing as objective Truth? It is all then a matter of fideism, or a naked power grab. I don’t think God operates that way.

  • RJS

    ChrisB
    I am caught between a rock and a hard place here – anything I say will be taken wrong.
    Read Calvin’s commentaries – I have read some of them and this is why I make this statement about his theology. Calvin had a system and everything was made to fit the system. Even so there is a lot of good insight in his thinking.
    But Chris this is totally unfair:
    But then we read Genesis by the “commentary” of modern men who are anti-theistic in general and anti-Christian specifically. They decided a priori that there is no supernatural and then told us what to think about a book that claims to be completely supernatural. And we let them.
    I don’t start with science and therefore assume that the Bible is wrong. I certainly don’t let Dawkins or any of this cohort tell me what to think of Genesis. But I do start with a theology – a biblically based theology – that denies that God created the world to look one way and then gave us the Genesis 1-11 so that we would know the truth. The fact is that the empirical evidence is inconsistent with a completely literal interpretation of Genesis. I know that some out there will disagree with me – but a very small percentage of Christians with graduate education in the sciences will disagree with me.
    As a church we have to wrestle with how to interpret Genesis in our day and age – because the literal interpretation that worked for Calvin will not work today and it is driving people away from the church. For my own intellectual integrity and faith I have to wrestle with it.

  • http://communityofjesus.blogspot.com/ Ted M. Gossard

    I can’t help but think that if Calvin were alive today he would accept mainstream science, of course with a Theistic view of it. Precisely the case at Calvin College (from what I can tell, and what is said). Calvin seems to have a healthy view of God’s revelation in nature, but this is just my impression from what I’ve heard and read.
    And I really don’t think he’d be averse to science contributing to understanding God’s book of general revelation, surely impacting the understanding of special revelation in Scripture.

  • http://communityofjesus.blogspot.com/ Ted M. Gossard

    I will add to this with reference to the conversation, that there indeed has been a lot of Biblical background understanding uncovered since the day of Calvin. Calvin would be among the first ones to carefully consider such finding. Like the comparisons between the Genesis accounts of creation and other ANE accounts. Not known, along with a host of other things, in Calvin’s day.

  • RJS

    Ted,
    Good point – I think that you are right. And I think that Calvin would say that the form of the revelation we have in Gen 3 is an accommodation to the view of man – the form of the text allows the essential features to be understood throughout the ages.
    He said something similar to this with respect to Saturn and the fact that Saturn is larger than the moon in his commentary on Gen 1.
    My main point today was not that Calvin was “wrong” but that we need to think about where and why we perceive conflicts between science and faith. Are these conflicts root theological or are they interpretation?

  • AHH

    Now that Ted G. #21 has brought up “if Calvin were alive today,” it is a good time to recommend the book “John Calvin and the Natural World” by Davis Young (Prof. Emeritus at Calvin College).
    Young looks at Calvin’s treatment of the natural world in all his writings, with particular attention to his concept of “accommodation” in such matters. At the end of the book, Young expresses the opinion that, if Calvin had today’s scientific evidence at his disposal, his consistent hermeneutical method would lead him to read Genesis as not being in conflict with an old earth or with biological evolution.
    The book is cheaper than other sources if you get it here:
    http://www.calvin.edu/admin/cccs/scholarship/davisyoung.html

  • Your Name

    Chris B, I resonate with what you say. Reminds me that everyone is on a level playing field when it comes to making theology assertionss because everyone’s brains have been effected by the Fall. It is by the holy spirit that we understand the bit that we do.

  • RJS

    AHH,
    Thanks, Looks like a good book.

  • Eric

    I think ChrisB has a point (if I undestand him correctly) in this respect — if we can come up with supernatural explanations that are not clearly inconsistent with the scientific record, we shouldn’t write them off. After all, we believe in the resurrection of the dead, of all unnatural things.
    Here is an example of what I mean. I’m not saying that I agree with the following, but wouldn’t it be consistent (or not inconsistent) with theistic evolution? Suppose God suspended the laws of death and decay just in the Garden of Eden. The rest of the universe followed the laws of science as we know them. The apple story is entirely literal. God expelled Adam and Eve from the Garden, so they would be subject to the laws of death and decay. Genesis 3, and Romans 5 and 8 are literally true.
    I suspect that RJS’s and dopderbeck’s explanations of death and decay in this and the prior post are correct, and this one isn’t. But I can’t rule it out, and I probably shouldn’t if I’m open to specific supernatural intervention by God in the laws of science as we know them.

  • http://virtuphill.blogspot.com phil_style

    Eric #27,
    I like where your thoughts are going, and it’s certainly worth pursuing the notion further. It does seem from the text that Adam/Eve were ‘placed’ in the garden. consequently there does seem to be an element of separation from the rest of the natural order while they’re in this ‘place’. . . .

  • http://bprjam.blogspot.com/ Bprjam

    It seems to me that there is an assumption here that Adam and Eve were literal people, who ate a fruit, which resulted in a catastrophic “fall” and “original sin”. What happened to the discussion about creative language in Genesis 1 and 2, in which the ha’adam (which is an interesting choice for Adam’s name)? Doesn’t that have implications for this discussion?
    Going further, it seems that our views of Adam (or ha’adam, which I think is a more useful way of thinking of Genesis) are driven by our views of inerrancy. And far too often, I see appeal to the way Jesus or Paul spoke of Adam as “proof” that he was an actual individual. Again, this goes back into view of inerrancy, which seems to be driving this discussion of Genesis 3 as much as anything else.
    But why are we focusing on Calvin here? It seems that Iraeneaus has a more interesting approach to Genesis 3. If I recall (my memory isn’t what it should be), Iraneaus thought that God created mankind (the ha’adam?) as raw material that needed to be matured to a point where “consummation” with the divine was possible. So, Genesis 3 documents more of a childish disobedience than a full blown rebellion. Iraeneus indicates that only in the fire of trails can maturity and purification occur. It seems to me that this view of anthropology and creation makes much more sense in light of contemporary science.
    I suppose I don’t have a definite point here, other than the fact that this particular discussion seems, I dunno, wrong headed.

  • RJS

    Bprjam,
    This post is one of a series – and each individual post has to be narrowly focused. So stick around – we will move on to other thinkers and other ideas in a slow ramble.
    I think for some views of Adam are driven by inerrancy. For others they seem to be driven by theology. I think we need to consider what influences our thinking.

  • Eric

    Bprjam,
    If the question was directed at me, I’m certainly not in favor of inerrancy-type views, and I generally question literal interpretations of Genesis 1-3. I’m an old earth, theistic evolution sort of person. I was just throwing out an idea that could be consistent with the generally-accepted science regarding evolution, death, decay, etc., while leaving room for specific supernatual events that might satisfy some people’s interpretation of Genesis 3.

  • http://bprjam.blogspot.com/ BPRJam

    Eric (#31):
    Oh, no. My post was not directed at you.
    Rather (and this should not be taken as a criticism of RJS), it seems to me that this particular post is repeating the “what influences our thinking?” discussion we had in parts 1 and 2 of this series. While I agree that parts 1 and 2 were more directed towards questions like: “Is the creation story myth? Why or why not?”, I cannot personally separate such questions from “What influences your thinking on this?”
    I just need to be patient and let RJS do her thing.
    On another note, now that I read my previous comment, I also need to do a better job of proofreading. My apologies.

  • http://bprjam.blogspot.com/ BPRJam

    RJS (#30):
    Thanks for the response. I’ve been (trying) to keep up with this series from the beginning, and look forward to where it will go. (Though I’m often impatient.)
    Can you clarify how you are separating views of Biblical inerrancy from theology? Perhaps I see them as more integrated than I ought.
    For instance, I see Calvin’s theological concerns (e.g., predestination, total depravity, etc) at work in the commentary snips you graciously provided, but I also see a particular view of inerrancy being espoused as part of his theological grid (that there was a literal Adam and Eve, that the snake is Satan, that death comes from Adam’s actions, etc.) I’m not convinced they can be adequately separated.
    My point in pursuing this is that the elements that we weave into our theology greatly shape the science and faith discussion. If we can separate our views on theology and inerrancy into neat packages, then I believe we are in danger of cognitive dissonance in the faith and science discussion, because we can relegate each to their own realms.