It’s empirically based: moderate drinking is good for you, and better for you than not drinking at all and better than heavy drinking.
I’m 100% in favor of control, of discipline, of not drinking in excess, of never drinking and driving, of young adults not drinking until they are mature enough to know what they’re doing, of… of … but still… total abstinence is neither biblical nor wise.
When Jesus turned the water into wine, he was doing something that was not only a symbol of festive joy but good for those attending the wedding.
What’s your guess: Did Jesus make red wine or white wine? I say “RED”.
Here’s a clip from a recent article linked to above.
But even after controlling for nearly all imaginable variables — socioeconomic status, level of physical activity, number of close friends, quality of social support and so on — the researchers (a six-member team led by psychologist Charles Holahan of the University of Texas at Austin) found that over a 20-year period, mortality rates were highest for those who had never been drinkers, second-highest for heavy drinkers and lowest for moderate drinkers.
The sample of those who were studied included individuals between ages 55 and 65 who had had any kind of outpatient care in the previous three years. The 1,824 participants were followed for 20 years. One drawback of the sample: a disproportionate number, 63%, were men. Just over 69% of the never-drinkers died during the 20 years, 60% of the heavy drinkers died and only 41% of moderate drinkers died.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2014332,00.html?hpt=C2#ixzz0y8oZiWqW
Must have been red. Unchilled white would not have been appetizing so Jesus would have not suffered his guests with it.
Must have been red — likely a wonderful Merlot.
Scot, I’m NOT a teetotaler, but I’m curious how you arrive at your conclusion that abstinence is “not wise.”
Is it just based on the health impacts? If so, there would be millions of folks in the US alone who would tell you that personal health isn’t the only variable to be considered when thinking if abstinence is wise or not.
Methodists have a history of “experimental” Christianity, especially in their “classes”. I also was “infilled” while in a Wednesday evening Bible study with an oak of a believer and his sister, both in their eighties. A glorious time for us all, including my children, who were all pre-teen at the time. Today all my children are believers and fondly remember those truly filled with the Spirit times. As a result, we became Methodists, and in the tradition, not drinking at all. Do you know, this actually was beneficial for us as a family in that culture during our children’s high school years. We weren’t anti-anybody or prohibitioners, but we were just a family that didn’t have alcohol in our house. When our kids graduated, the party at our house was alcohol-less. I’m sure this kept a few away, but actually a good time seemed to be had by all. When it turned evening at our house, and we had campfire get-togethers, many kids actually seemed more relaxed in our atmosphere, because any temptation for drinking was not there. If they felt it was needed for a good time, that was elsewhere.
Since our children’s college years, and now their having their own families, all of us have become moderate drinkers. My wife and I and one son are actually the type who love to search for wine that have what we consider that special terroir. Two of our four children remain in the Methodist tradition as Wesleyan. You know how you look back and notice God’s hand all over your own situation. The alcohol situation in our family was one small example of that.
PS- We realize that moderate drinking, especially that practiced in Europe, is probably the most healthy approach in raising children. We were unique in the sense that both my wife and I were raised in alcoholic families, and desperately wanting to break that cycle.
Michael, yes, it is wise health-wise to drink moderately — of course, recognizing that those with addiction issues here will be wiser to avoid alcohol.
Actually, total abstinence does have some biblical precedents, as in the Nazarites and their like (John the Baptist, etc.). I’m not sure that abstaining from wine is “unwise.” In terms of health, I’m sure that there are other ways of living a healthy lifestyle without drinking wine. There’s no need to say, “You MUST drink wine to be healthy.”
Still, it gives this imbiber a marvelous rationalization for one of the great pleasures of life.
And Jesus would have made a Pinot Noir.
Not a teetotaler either, and think that some moderate drinking is all good and well. However, I’ve heard (wish I could remember where) that studies like these probably reveal a correlative relationship over a causal one. That is to say that the imbibing doesn’t contribute to the overall health. Rather, people who consume alcohol on a limited basis are statistically more likely to have lifestyles that are overall more healthy. That’s why most of the studies focused on red wine. Not to be a snob or anything, but those of us who drink red wine are generally speaking more “enlightened” people all the way around. So we tend to exercise and watch what we eat more. Capiche?
Red wine was, of course, the best!
I had a professor once who insisted that Jesus could not have made alcoholic wine because his first miracle could not be enabling people to sin. I never asked him how he suggests we translate methyo.
It always struck me as odd that people (particularly in America) are still influenced by prohibition and can’t seem to think outside of those terms yet. Jesus gave wine to people who were drunk. The demonstration was not a commentary on morality but an invitation to celebrate the inauguration of the Kingdom! And I’m sure there are some more theological gems in there too (God’s bounty and provision, etc.).
Red,red wine, go to my head….
It is a shame that you don’t have more Church of Christ readers. 69% of our tradition will be gone in 20 years.
I’ve lost count over the number of times my stepfather or mother-in-law has tried to get into it with me and my wife about having a glass of wine together or the general issue of moderate drinking…*sigh* It’s one of those things that have long been marked off in the filing cabinet of relationship enders so I avoid the issue because I tire of being called such a hypocritical sinner etc.
The wine Jesus made at the wedding in Cana was RED because I saw a Christian film once of this miracle and the wine was deep red. I am hoping that the filmmakers did their research.
Definitely red.
We have a friend who once sported two bumper stickers on the back of his pickup truck: An Awana sticker, and one that read “Life’s too short to drink bad wine”. You don’t see that combination every day!
We need to be careful about announcing that “total abstinence is neither biblical nor wise”, at least not based on this report. As the study says, the findings are based on “reasons that aren’t entirely clear.”
Likewise, the article says, “…heavy drinkers are less likely to die than don’t drink, even if they never had a problem with alcohol. One important reason is that alcohol lubricates so many social interactions, and social interactions are vital for maintaining mental and physical health.”
So the main element here may be the need for community, not necessarily the alcohol. So to say abstinence is “unwise” for health reasons may be incorrect, and in fact may be very wise for certain situations- as some have already pointed out.
Rick,
The question has been asked already, and I’ll put it this way: yes, the alcohol may lubricate one to enjoy society more, but studies clearly show also that red wine in particular helps the heart. So, I don’t think is just social lubrication.
If only I could find one that tastes good. It all tastes awful to me. Just awful.
As mentioned above, the studies carefully controlled for the variables mentioned in some comments. This is an example of a previous post by Scott on empirical studies from science that are often immediately set aside simply because they don’t agree with religious tradition. Such research should give us pause, prompting us to rethink a position that has been held – that has been used to exclude many folks from our fellowship over the centuries. An honest pursuit of ‘truth’ has been terribly defined and confused with protecting our ‘interpretations’ of truth.
Quick (if mild) push-back, Scot.
When Michael asked you the following question (edited for brevity): “I’m curious how you arrive at your conclusion that abstinence is ‘not wise.’”
You answered: “Michael, yes, it is wise health-wise to drink moderately — of course, recognizing that those with addiction issues here will be wiser to avoid alcohol.”
It seems to me you answered a different question than Michael asked.
It is a very different thing to say that moderate drink is “wise” than it is to say that abstinence is “not wise.” The latter sounds more than a little condemnatory of those who choose to be teetotalers. It’s as if you’re calling them “foolish.” Surely this isn’t your intention. Surely it’s enough to point out that the Bible by no means encourages such abstinence (as you have done).
Clay, start with Welch’s and start reducing sugar content.
Mark, and it’s a fair to say that “not wise” is not saying “foolish.” ?
And I would say that health-wise, from what I’ve read, all things being equal, arguing for abstinence is not as healthy (wise) as arguing for moderate, controlled drinking of red wine.
Red wine, of course. I usually have it on hand. But what about this study which indicated that women’s risk of cancer is increased with any alcoholic consumption at all? Only one study, but it makes me wonder.
Even if “not wise” doesn’t equal “foolish,” I stand by my assertion that it sounds condemnatory.
“I had a professor once who insisted that Jesus could not have made alcoholic wine because his first miracle could not be enabling people to sin.”
Ridiculous. Did the bread and fish enable gluttony? There were certainly plenty of leftovers.
There are others (who don’t know squat about wine) who argue that what they considered wine had like 4% alcohol. So Jesus turned water into wine spritzers?
I don’t oppose responsible drinking and don’t see how one can on biblical grounds. However, I wonder how much stock to place in empirical findings, esp. given how the lists of what foods and drinks are/are not good for us changes over time. Remember when we weren’t supposed to eat eggs?
JoeyS @8,
I know you don’t mean “Prohibition” as the time in our history when alcohol production was illegal, but rather in general. But what you and some of the readers may not know is that the reason the Temperance Movement was able to gather so much steam, resulting in Prohibition once women got the vote, is that the usual scenario in this country was that of an alcoholic husband/father drinking up all the money, abandoning the family and/or becoming violent. The women and children of the day had no recourse, since married women had virtually no rights, and essentially the standing of children. This resulted in throwing women and children into very deep economic holes. Nothing was known about addiction; people just thought that if we got rid of alcohol, “drunkenness” and all those resultant terrible social problems would go away. The historical Prohibition followed hard on women’s franchise, because alcoholism was seen, particularly by many women, as a women’s issue. Some, like Lydia Maria Child (author of “Over the River and Through the Woods”), were able to find a way to earn some money through writing or other means, and were able to somehow keep what they earned and get a little ahead; most were not so fortunate.
It was definitely a red, but not so dry as Merlot or Pinot. This was a wedding after all! I think it was a bit sweeter and frutier, like Lambrusco or even Mateus.
Dana
Scot-
“…but studies clearly show also that red wine in particular helps the heart. So, I don’t think is just social lubrication.”
And you have a right to your opinion, but this particular study is not coming to that conclusion.
Likewise, there are many factors involved in this issue (as others have pointed out- society, other aspects of health, etc…), so to say it is “unwise” based on just the impact on the heart is insufficient.
Does not wisdom take into account the overall context of a situation and the filtering of it through Scripture?
I agree that people should not oppose moderate drinking as “unbiblical” and “unwise”, but I think the reverse is true as well.
Dana,
From my understanding, though, prohibition lead to greater social problems like increased gang activity and a very violent underground. Many of those who pushed for prohibition were also responsible for pushing its repeal.
I was referring though to the general culture that prohibition was created out of. Moderate drinking is, unfortunately, not the norm in our society. You have two extremes: teetotalers and, to use a European term, piss-heads. Perhaps puritanism, rather than prohibition, better describes what has caused this.
I spent a good deal of time in Australia when I was in college and was amazed at how different their culture was on this issue. The majority of people were moderate drinkers while the extremes were barely fringe groups.
Our culture, though, hasn’t had a long history of moderate drinking. I honestly think that the micro-brew phenomenon in America is what will change our culture from one of teetos and drunks to one of moderates and I’m happy to see that shift happening.
I have to go with red as well. Though I did have a really good Swiss white wine in Lucerne once-can’t remember the name though
JoeyS,
yes, that is surely so, and I understand you were referring to the general culture. I’m sure puritanism was part of it too.
I’m Italian (my mother’s parents emigrated) and spent a college year in Europe, so I know the difference between the moderate and the extreme.
My area in northern California is more known for its wine, but we have some really excellent microbreweries, too. A hundred years ago, one of the biggest crops here was hops; everything comes ’round again.
Dana
RED WINE AND TOO MUCH!!!
and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.” John 2:10
However, at all the weddings I go to it’s usually beer.
If it was a hotter time of year I’d think Jesus would have the sense to make a refreshing white like a Vinho Verde.
Otherwise, for cooler weather, a nice big Spanish style red or a Rhone “Gigondas” would be lovely.
I love this quote from Martin Luther: “I simply taught, preached, wrote Gods word; otherwise, I did nothing. And then, while I slept, or drank Wittenberg beer with my Philip and my Amsdorf, the Word so greatly weakened the papacy that never a prince or emporor did such damage to it. I did nothing. The Word did it all.” If Jesus and Martin Luther drank, why shouldn’t we. They changed the world.
Viva Vino!
In moderation, of course.
Red. Someone really should sell a wine with a label something like “The Lord’s First Miracle”. And it better be good.
I must say I tend to have more than I should when I start. For me it seems that wine is served in single serving containers.
I think that, at times, teetotalers would suggest that although moderate drinking isn’t unbiblical, it is unwise. In others words, they often say that although both abstinence and moderation are Biblical lifestyles, abstinence is the WISER of the two. But that is an extra biblical idea that is fueled by legalism and pride.
Studies like this show that, in at least some ways, moderation is the wiser of the two.
Red wine…
And as a belgian I see no biblical reason to not drink alcohol (moderately), except for (ex)alcoholics and people who know they can’t handle it.
I do respect people who don’t use alcohol at all, like muslims or straight-edgers, but not if they want to impose their views on me…
some of the best belgian beers are brewed by trappist monks btw.
Bram