Robert Putnam and David Campbell, American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us, sketch the facts when it comes to women in American religious communities, and here’s a major conclusion:
Religious Americans have largely accepted the gender revolution, at the same time that many of them, especially evangelicals, staunchly resist the sexual revolution.
Put differently, when it comes to women in ministry and participating more in church leadership there is no evidence of a slippery slope among evangelicals.
When you read this post, what comes to mind about the correlation of trends? Why the disparity between what Christians (evangelicals too) believe and the percentage of women in leadership? How do these numbers explain the rise — or the seeming rise — of those who oppose women in ministry?
What do you think explains the shifts in greater support for women clergy?
Here are some facts:
Between 1970 and 2000 they have mapped trends in feminist views by church attendance, and what they show is that church attenders correlate substantially — uncannily so I would say — with culture at large. Thus, what they are saying is that the church bought into gender transformations. Here are indications of gender transformations in the last thirty years:
Married women should not work: 28% believed this in 1970; 19% in 2000.
Better for a man to achieve; women at home: 70% believed this in 1970 to 42% now.
Wife should help husband’s career, not her own: 70% to 23% now.
Mothers working hurts children: 50% to 23% now.
Women take care of home, not country: 40% to 20% now.
Would not vote for female President: 27% to 8% now.
What about women clergy?The numbers here are dramatic, and they compare 1986 numbers to 2006 numbers:
Mainliners: 82% in favor of women clergy in 1986, 93% in favor in 2006.
Black Prots: 64% to 86%.
Anglo Catholics: 54% to 75%.
Evangelicals: 50% in favor in 1986 but now they are at 75%.
Latino Catholics: 57% in 2006. (No number in 1986.)
Very clearly, the numbers are moving rapidly and there is now an overwhelming majority of evangelicals who favor women clergy. Three out of four favor women clergy.
Furthermore, the numbers who favor more presence of women are approximately 65%; only 16% think the role of women in churches is the way it should be; 19% think women have too big of a role in church.
“How do these numbers explain the rise — or the seeming rise — of those who oppose women in ministry?” Power never yields gently. Sensing the groundswell, those at the top of the male dominated clergy hierarchy feel threatened and are pushing back.
Could it be that despite what we think intellectually, we are still uncomfortable with it in practice?
Or, could it be that we don’t actually know what others in our churches think about it? We could be avoiding conflict because we think more people are opposed than actually are. Could it be that the minority who oppose it are the most vocal?
Could it be that women have not been given opportunities to lead, so they are hesitant leaders because of inexperience? Could it be that they need overt encouragement to use their spiritual gifts?
I think the change has come as we’ve seen more women performing competently in a wide variety of roles in society.
It would be interesting to see the breakdown of those numbers by age or education/profession … if such a breakdown exists. I’d also like to know how many people were polled to come up with these percentages …
sonja,
putnam would have used state of the art sampling to get the best kind of national sample money can buy these days. that said, we could look within the sample for group patterns to help unravel this story … there may certainly be certain demographic characteristics (eg educational attainment) negatively associated with affirmation of women clergy. no doubt, these kinds of things are buried in the statistical appendix of the book.
I serve in a mainline protestant church as an elder, so my call is squarely in the egalitarian camp. While I do think there is some traditional chauvinism in complementarity church culture, I don’t think it all falls on the men holding to power. As with some of the attitudes women held regarding their own “right to vote” (slow to adopt it, did not see it as important) I think many women enjoy a passive role at church. Leadership is demanding and dull (only on rare occasions). Limited roles may be allowing women to have a sanctuary from the pressure and tension that come with leadership. They me put it this way–the majority of all US churches are women, if they wanted change, many could and would leave, and change would come more rapidly. It’s not just the men holding the women back. I also think egalitarian leadership will grow away from classic feminist rhetoric which oddly destorts doctrine, and as that change happens, women in leadership will not seem so disturbing.
the disparity:
the low parental work leave given in the US helps account for lower female clergy workforce participation. women in the US are forced to choose between childbearing and paid work (including paid ministry). ideologically, the church may affirm women in ministry, but practical measures have not yet been taken to reduce the conflict between family and work demands.
“Mothers working hurts children”
I would have difficulty answering this question if the choices are binary. I think it is harmful to children for both parents to work. I don’t think it matters much which parent stays home, but having one at home with the children is beneficial. I have good friends where the father stays home and the mother works. He’s great with the kids, and while some of us kid him by calling him Mr Mom, we’re all jealous and would love to trade places and be the ones at home with our kids.
What explains the rise in support for women clergy?
Don’t like the word clergy with its implication of ordination and a ‘special class’ – but leaving that aside might it be a work of the Spirit in his Church to release the giftedness of all his people?
Patrick, that one on “clergy” surprises me. You’re almost an anabaptist!
While I see no reason to dispute the statistic that says that “Three out of four (evangelicals) favor women clergy,” I’d be willing to bet that this is more along the lines of “we think women should be allowed to be clergy” than “I would be okay with a woman pastor in my own church.” The difference is, I think, important.
I’m trying ..:)
Patrick Mitchel. “If you’re going to try, go all the way!”
http://peterrollins.net/blog/?p=1279
Question: can anyone name a couple female church planters who are really doing exceptional work?
The question about women in ministry seems to be one of males letting females take a “bigger”/”better” role. I am church planter. I didn’t need permission to start a church. I gathered folks around me, and built a church. Where are the females who are doing that successfully? If there aren’t any, I want to know why not.
Joey, maybe I’m postmodern enough to like bits of both or maybe I’m just a bad Presbyterian. But this is a thread on women in ministry so I’ll say no more. That fella McKnight went off topic ..
Does anyone know what the demographic breakdowns are at mainline or moderate-liberal evangelical seminaries? Has it reached 50-50 yet? Are there more females than males?
Jeff #14,
I’m a woman planting a church and at the beginning I pretty much thought I was going to be the only woman I knew doing this. But I have been surprised by meeting so many women locally and from around the country who are planting too. I think we’ll see more women doing it in the years to come as there are some real advantages to it for women in particular.
Good for you Jennifer! I’m very curious to see whether or not more women will take lead roles, and what that will look like. Question: do you have a problem retaining men in your church?
Jeff, I think your comment begs more than one question. I’ll just mention this one: one reason you can gather people around you and ‘just go do it’ is because you are a man. But for a woman, unless there is acceptance and agreed legitimacy of a woman in leadership within the Christian community then she isn’t going to be able to ‘just go do it’. Leadership isn’t free market entrepreneurship. It is consensual and communal – leaders are recognised and affirmed within the body of Christ. She’s facing issues you don’t have to think about.
Carol, #6, your comment “Many women enjoy a passive role in the church” begs the question: why? Could it be that the all-male leadership in the church has made them feel that their passivity is a sign of godliness? It’s hard to break out of passivity when it is being encouraged and rewarded by spiritual leaders.
I’ve been conditioned this way myself, and although I am a female in seminary, and the only woman in a preaching class of males, my support system now includes a uber-supportive husband and a female pastor. That support and “push” makes a huge difference.
Jeff – Our church is still pretty young, so its hard to say. But, at this point, its actually been men who have affirmed my leadership the most and been my most vocal supporters.
Patrick – Yes and no. A woman has to be in a certain place where its okay for women to lead, but once she’s there, the process of gathering people might actually be easier for her than for her male peers. Women bring amazing strengths to church planting in terms of relationality, creativity, and administration.
Patrick, I certainly agree. That is why I posed the question. On one front I deeply desire women to lead on another I deeply desire to see young men come to Christ. I want to know practically speaking if the two come together.
Jennifer – I think that’s a good thing. Many blessings on you and your church!
Jeff – Thanks Jeff. I share your desire to see young men come to Christ.
I think we do young men a disservice when we invite them to Christ through the lens of violence and domination (Jesus as Mixed-Marial artist or Jesus as Warrior to the exclusion of other pictures of Jesus), which is how some churches in my area approach the issue. I want to see them come to Christ, but not because their aggressions are manipulated (similar to the way someone else’s emotions could be manipulated.)
My experience with younger men (I’m almost 40, and married for 15+ years) is that many of them seem to long for a place to let their guard down. There is so much pressure on them to be EVERYTHING…cool, attractive, sensitive, funny, rich, providing, smart, etc etc. And so little room for them to be okay even if they dont measure up to some standard that society has. I think one of the gifts a woman pastor brings is that she can create the kind of “resting spot” that seems needed by young men who have a long list of pressures to face. Not that male pastors can’t do this, of course, but women tend to bring a certain giftedness to this area.
I think there is a Jeff confusion: Jeff Cook #21 – my comment at 19 was directed at Jeff’c comment 14.
Patrick – Same Jeff. I forgot to put my last name down. My fault.
Jennifer – I am all about going with you there philosophically. I too think “strength = violence” is false and should never be associated with the richer strength of Jesus. I am concerned practically though and you are answering some of my concerns. I teach at a local university and recently was asked by a group who had a fully capable female leader to come speak. 50 students were there; 6 of them were men. That may have nothing to do with the gender of the leader. I again just put it out as a concern. I want to know if there are churches lead by women that see men come to Christ, or that hold a 50% male, 50% female dynamic.
As a side note, one of the three founding pastors in the church I helped plant is female. We do not have a senior pastor; it is a plural-elder structure.
Peace to you all!
Robin at #16,
Does anyone know what the demographic breakdowns are at mainline or moderate-liberal evangelical seminaries? Has it reached 50-50 yet? Are there more females than males?
I imagine this is a question that is difficult to give a straight answer to. In the case of just one institution (Fuller), I can say that we’re not at 50% women overall (nubmers differ according to source and how counted, but this site, for example, would put the total enrolled figure at about 37.5% women. However, it is obviously also the case that not all students are 1) enrolled full-time nor 2) seeking ordained ministerial call, both of which would seem to me to be of importance to this conversation. I can also state (although without quick and easy statistical back-up) that enrollment differs according to each of Fuller’s three schools (The School of Theology is the most relevant one to this discussion, but the School of Intercultural Studies and the School of Psychology would also be included in the overall enrollment figures given at the sites I’ve found).
As far as the rise of women in leadership, I would say the strong rise is primarily due to apathetic men. If you look at men in the church today, and in society today I would say that in general there is a decline in leadership. Look to the younger generation and people in their 20′s and 30′s and in my opinion from what I have seen and experienced women are by far more passionate about religion, perhaps because women tend to be more emotionally driven and belief and faith are fed when you put emotions behind them. Frankly I think it’s a sad state because God clearly placed man at the head and men have failed for the large part at being that leader in the church and in their own families.
http://www.NextGenerationDisciples.com
Nice dialog going here. Just a couple of thoughts from my days in pastoral ministry….
Mark #11 gets to what I saw all too often: lip service. It’s okay for women to be pastors … just not at MY church, thank you. And this was in a movement which, in its youth, touted a 50/50 ratio of women to men pastors.
During my time, I saw too many of our gifted women pastors coming out of seminary and being called to lead in mainline denominations … because their own churches wouldn’t hire them.
Heartbreaking.
But I’m with Jennifer in believing that women bring a great skill mix to the role of church planter. MaryKate Morse, from George Fox University, is both a professor and church planter … and her book “Making Room for Leadership” is very important to this very discussion.
Someone needs to do a book review for your blog, Scot!
Peggy,
I just read that book for a Leadership class in seminary. I think she’s got some great things to say, and I thoguht of some pastors I’d like to send a copy to! But, at the same time, I dont think she goes far enough. But, sometimes baby steps are all you can do….
I grew up in an area that had at least 3 Pentecostalist churches which had women pastors – yes, head pastors by definition, since they each had only one pastor. In each case, their denominations required them to be under a MALE bishop. (In each case, the male bishop was some really old gentleman who started the churches to begin with, and was mostly a friendly overseer to prevent major doctrinal creep, otherwise more than content with letting the pastors run things and have all the headaches.) The women weren’t all gifted as pastors, unfortunately.
Another church was from a Lutheran denom known for its opposition to women ministers. The congregation had a female deacon serving it who did many of the non-sacramental functions of a minister. The pastor supported women’s roles in the church (with boos from HQ). The deacon had to take formal membership in a mainline congregation nearby and serve technically from the outside. Not a happy situation.
The women ministers I know are a mixed bag — some push an agenda, others walk on eggs (most of those more than they need to). Many are great at it. But the largest group from those I’ve seen seem to be content as ‘maintenance pastors’, doing next to nothing while members (and their money for ministries) slowly age out. Wait a minute — that also describes the *male* pastors….
@Bob #31 Loved that punch at the end… awesome!
@Jennifer Love to hear that you’ve started a church. Can I offer a gentle suggestion. When you say that women bring certain strengths, like relational abilities and administration, I would say that men bring those things too.
This is a terrific discussion, but there is a noticeable vein running through them that men and women are inherently different. That they have different strengths and weaknesses, not based on personality, but gender. Can we all acknowledge that Men are not from Mars and Women are not from Venus. So long as a woman has to defend her ministry by mentioning these characteristics, literally, her perceived feminity as defined through a patriarchal lens, people may accept more women ministers, but only until a few pastors (like mark Driscoll) start making a bigger push through our young people.
At some point, we’re going to have to let our old ideas about what is masculine and what is feminine go, and realize that these are simply culturally induced.
Do love the discussion however, and I so appreciate the women here who have put up with A LOT to minister.
Here’s an article that might interest some of you.
http://www.stephenburns.ca/2008/05/men-should-not-be-spiritual-leaders.html
Much love
Stephen – I appreciate the thoughts. I’m actually with you on that. I dont think women bring certain gifts to the table because of their ontological status as women. I think they tend to be more likely to bring those gifts because in the social construction in which they have lived, those gifts must be cultivated for survival.
Jennifer, I agree with you…both about MaryKate (and your comment that baby steps usually come before walking and running!) and about women’s gifts being cultivated for survival.
In my case I am very much like my father … and all the challenges he faced because of those characteristics, I have had to face as well. Some of the reason I have been able to do things he didn’t do is precisely because being a girl required me to approach things differently. Some of his ‘edge’ was ‘cultivated’ out of me, where it was encouraged in boys.
Any women who forge inroads into predominately male arenas will be tempted to “be like men” rather than “be who God made and then called”.
Some of MaryKate’s “not going far enough” may also be related to the disbelief at the “tone-deafness” she has encountered so often.
God help us all as we do the very best we know how to do in carefully listening and obediently following the call of God to serve and “feed his sheep.”