This is an extreme case of “I wish I hadn’t said that,” and it not only calls into question the wisdom of having folks so young write up their story for publication, and it not only calls into questions publishers supporting such writing, but it also makes us wonder about what we believed in our 20s that we don’t believe now.
What is one thing that was so important to you in your early 20s that you now either don’t believer or are downright embarrassed about?
In August 1999, Bethany Patchin, an 18-year-old college sophomore from Wisconsin, wrote in an article for Boundless, an evangelical Web magazine, that Christians should not kiss before marriage. Sam Torode, a 23-year-old Chicagoan, replied in a letter to the editor that Ms. Patchin’s piece could not help but “drive young Christian men mad with desire.”
The two began corresponding by e-mail, met in January 2000 and were married that November. Nine months later, Ms. Torode (she took her husband’s name) gave birth to a son, Gideon. Over the next six years, the Torodes had four more progeny: another son, two daughters and a book, “Open Embrace: A Protestant Couple Rethinks Contraception.”
In “Open Embrace,” the Torodes endorsed natural family planning — tracking a woman’s ovulation and limiting intercourse to days when she is not fertile — but rejected all forms of artificial contraception, including the pill and condoms. The book sold 7,000 copies after its publication in 2002 and was celebrated in the anticontraception movement, which remains largely Roman Catholic but has a growing conservative Protestant wing. As young Protestants who conceived their first child on their honeymoon, the Torodes made perfect evangelists.
That was then, this is now.
In 2006, the Torodes wrote on the Web that they no longer believed natural family planning was the best method of birth control. They divorced in 2009. Both now attend liberal churches. Ms. Patchin — that is her name once again — now says she uses birth control, and she even voted for Barack Obama for president.
I was a Calvinist.
I used to be a nationalist. I believed that God and America were joined at the hip, especially when it came to the “war on terror.”
I’m that age right now. Yikes.
I was an Arminian.
I was a Young Earth Creationist.
Where to begin? At 20, I called myself agnostic-leaning-towards-atheism. Then I became a Christian and leaned towards legalism. Went to school to become a preacher thinking I had most the answers already, just needed to brush up on my Bible. Now, at 45, I have more questions than answers about what it means to follow Jesus … but I know I want to do that more than anything!
Kurt, as an Iraq born Palestinian-American who has been on the receiving end (both by verbal missiles within the church and the USA, and literal missiles in Gaza) of the America-God-Israel “Christian” Nationalist triangle. Thanks be to God you no longer hold that view.
I once thought Hal Lindsey was an eschatological theologian.
I was a complementarian.
I thought Republican candidates were actually Christians.
I once attended a “Christianity and Anarchy” conference.
That my tribe’s inception was at Pentecost… and mine alone. (Hey, I’m from the deep South. Go easy)
I sometimes at that age felt like a spiritual failure because I couldn’t seem to experience “baptism in the Holy Spirit”.
When asked why they divorced the article goes on to say:
“Among other challenges, Ms. Patchin, now 30, had unplanned pregnancies. “I got pregnant nursing twice,” she told me. “So my first two kids are 15 months apart, then there is a three-year break, then the younger two are a year and a half apart. That was intense. Beyond hormonally intense, it was relationally intense. It was nothing I would ever want anyone else to have to experience.”
Had “unplanned” pregnancies close together?? That’s why their marriage didn’t work? My wife and I have been married for 11 pretty great years and have 4 kids closer together than this couple does. Our 1st two were 14 months apart, followed by a 2 year gap, then 15 months months apart. We occasionally do use contraceptives, but none of our pregnancies were “planned.” Every single on was a surprise.
Yes it can be very difficult right now, but I can’t imagine that divorcing my wife would make it any less difficult, it would be harder on both of us actually. In fact, the necessity of her needing me, and me needing her in this, actually does bring us closer together.
But to answer the question: In my 20′s I used to say that kids were something I didn’t want to deal with. Now in my 30′s I understand why the Bible is true when it says that children are a blessing from the LORD. Psalm 127:3
In our Young Adult group at church (25 years ago), a few of us published a broadsheet called “The Discerning Disciple.” We only published a few issues (had to use real paper then, of course). There were things like a review of a book called “Real Christians Don’t Dance,” which actually argued that real Christians should and do dance. I found them in my attic a while back. Surprisingly — or not — and I could repost most of it on my blog today with little change!
But I was also very much a right-wing political conservative then. When I was editor of my journal in law school, I hung a picture of Robert Bork over my desk. Yikes!
I have also wondered about the wisdom of publishing the thoughts/writings of young people. When the Arnold Schwarzenegger scandal came to light, for instance, various “news” shows were quoting tweets from his teenage kids. That seemed irresponsible. Not to mention the weirdness around the fact the our society wants to here from 15 yr olds – just because they’re the progeny of celebrities. It’s so ridiculous, irresponsible, unwise, etc.
Another note:
One of the issues behind all this I-wish-I-hadn’t-said-that business is the sad truth that in many, many Evangelical circles, teenagers, 20s, etc, are taught that once they “arrive” at belief that their perspective will not, and is not expected to, change as they grow older; not significantly anyway.
That’s unwise, unfair, and, ultimately sets people up for frustration and even a feeling that they have been deceived.
I was a catholic/agnostic, egalitarian, universalist
I’m actually more afraid of the stuff I spewed in my 30s than what I said in my 20′s. I was a real arrogant jerk in my 30′s. I’m only slightly less arrogant now.
P.S. I would also not like to be held responsible for my hairstyle in my 20′s. Can we get that out of the way too?? Thank you
I had a brief period where I thought the Cubs were cool.
“. . . now . . . she uses birth control, and she even voted for Barak Obama for president.”
Lemmie just say I’m getting some worthwhile fun out of the way that final point is phrased: She not only uses birth control now, but she “even” voted for Obama! [multiple gasps in unison]
C’mon, just for kicks, let’s imagine a couple of other ways the point might have been made? “now she not only uses birth control, but she even . . .
- watches CNN.
- enjoys Harry Potter movies.
- thinks the world is billions of years old.
- prefers the TNIV translation.
- thought Love Wins was a great, great book.
“Let me bum a cigarette.” 20 years later it was quite painful to quit, and I still am paying for that.
T, as far as voting for Obama is concerned, you know that once you go black you never go back. She is doomed …..
Depending on where you live, voting for Obama can be a horrible sin. I like the guy, but I don’t tell that to many people in my evangelical culture where I live. I even had one friend who voted for Obama, and his best friend disowned him!!
Eric @14, what a great post!
Was a KJV-only, Baptist, Calvinist, Complementarian, Republican, Young Earth Creationist, Pre-Trib/Pre-Mill literalist who believed speaking in tongues and universalism were of the devil.
Bob,
Were you all of those at the same time? I am not aware of any KJV-only Baptist Calvinists. Was there a small denomination that held to that or just the church you attended?
If I were a politician, I would definitely be accused of being a flip-flopper. I don’t know if that’s a good or bad thing. I’ve switched my views on many things over the years. Not sure which ones I’m embarrassed of though. When I first became a Christian in my 20s, I was much more theologically conservative. . . but much of it was because I thought I had to be. For example, I was a reluctant complimentarian. . . because I thought I had to be. I never actually practiced it though.
Here’s a controversial one (though I’m not embarrassed by any of my changing views on this). I used to be pro-life. Now, my view is a lot more nuanced. Politically, I would only want to push for 3rd trimester bans on abortion except for when the mother’s health is a concern. Because I do believe human life begins before birth, but I’ve become less certain it begins at conception.
I was an intern for WORLD magazine.
http://online.worldmag.com/2011/07/13/libel-is-not-love/
Eric @ 14, #humblebrag
I don’t believe the author’s intentions here were to open a place to judge Bethany Patchin but rather to ask what WE look back and wish we hadn’t said.
I wonder why it would be necessary to offer commentary and/or criticism of her based upon our own limited understanding of her circumstances?
@Darren #17 – that is insightful and explains much of the angst I feel/felt as my beliefs changed.
I’ll go on the record as a seminary student in my early twenties as being universalist, open/ process-relational, post-structuralist, and contemplating giving up the Trinity. Do I reach the bottom of heresy and rebound back to orthodoxy or continue my downward spiral ; )
I can echo most of Eric #14′s input, except it’s 8 years of marriage, 22 months apart between our first and our twins, and 18 months between the twins and our last.
Maybe it was just me, but the apparent “do-not-pass-go-and-do-not-collect-$200″-line directly from NFP–>divorce is pretty tasteless and assuming. The main thing that leads to divorce is a lack of infused love. Disappointing conclusions.
Claiming Romans 13 and trusting that it’s conscientiously okay for some to use contraception and for others not to,
Grace & Peace,
Jeremy
This made me so sad. I’m not sure if it’s a matter of age, however, or just humility. Anyone at any age can be dogmatic on an issue and then radically refute that later in their own life. But we do change as time goes by, and maybe we are more dogmatic and silly in our 20s, who knows?
I feel sad for this couple. The NY Times piece’s purpose is to lay the blame on natural family planning–no surprise there. But clearly other issues were going on as the couple has now left traditional Christian churches and talk about the good of agnosticism.
Contraception and divorce will not help them. It will only hurt them more. I appreciate the strain that children can put on a family–my wife had 4 children ages two and under (yes you read that right), and it is not easy. But contraception and divorce would make it 10 times as bad.
These comments are interesting in the sense of revealing what views or positions we currently feel are an embarrassment to us or to the faith. May we strive to still respect and not be dismissive of the people who hold them. After all, entering one’s 30s doesn’t put an end to our fallibility.
I’m in my mid 20s now. In my early 20s I was a sectarian, a complementarian, and a young-earth creationist. I also thought it was wrong to drink alcohol, go to prom, and worship God using musical instruments in church. Within five years all of that changed. My 20s have been theologically turbulent.
Dang. I’m old enough now to remember when the Torodes wrote their book. I thought at the time…”oh, they are waaaaay too young to have written this book. They haven’t even tried raising one children. Why are people jumping on this bandwagon, cheering their philosophy? The same book, written by parents of 10 who had lived thru child-rearing and still had their marriage intact and healthy, wonderful children – would have had a much better impact.” (I have nine children. When I have raised them I may write a book. Or I might just sit in the corner and suck my thumb. Let’s see if I survive the four teens at once.)
They shouldn’t have written it, we shouldn’t have read it.
It’s not just youth, though. Older people say a lot of things they regret as well.
Me? I regret judging other people so harshly, of thinking that I was being strong and standing for truth but was really just trumpeting my own opinions and pushing people away. Strength serves…it doesn’t have to yell and make sure that everyone agrees with it. I wish I had known this.
I’ve changed a ton of my opinions over, say, the last 10 years or so (i.e., since graduating college). Many of them are similar to what has been mentioned by others.
But maybe the biggest change is that I no longer feel my past beliefs are something to be embarrassed of* or to hurriedly put as far away as possible. Both the beliefs themselves and the process of evolving away from them have contributed to the person I am today. That, I would not trade or change.
*the ways in which I defended those beliefs, however, may be something to be embarrassed of!
I was newly-divorced at a time (early 1980s) when most churches in my faith-fellowship didn’t have a clue what to do with newly-divorced people, and also in danger of losing my faith because I didn’t know what to make of Mark 13:30 / Luke 21:32. I wish I hadn’t said to myself that all faith hangs on understanding one or two perplexing verses those 27 years ago.
I was a cessationist, uber-conservative who tried to get in a fist fight with a Mormon elder to prove who was right.
I use to believe I could speak in tongues and supported (not financially) now defrocked television evangelists.
I was a baptist
Other than what’s been said already, about all I can add was I was also a dispensationalist.
@Henry #31 – #nothinghumbleaboutit!
I don’t think I have anything to add other than reading the responses to today’s post have been delightful! We’re all a confused mess at some point in our lives. Seeing it all written out is truly freeing.
I’m still trying to follow Jesus, and I’m still glad I’m married to my wife. Other than than I’m trying to think if there’s anything I’m not embarrassed about from my 20s.
I’m still thinking.
#34 Bo. All that’s fine, but DON’T give up on the Trinity. Nothing has invigorated my faith more the last 10 years than the discovery of the revival of interest in Trinitarian theology!
In college I felt huge levels of angst because I attended a charismatic Christian university and was the only person I knew who hadn’t spoken in tongues.
I also was quite a judgmental, legalist in high school but that’s further back than most here are going.
i would agree with almost all of these, except i NEVER thought the cubs were cool. Go Cards!
seriously, though, my early twenties were pretty theologically turbulent. growing up in a conservative sbc church, changing memberships to a very calvinistic sbc church, while participating in an inter-denominational group of believers (most of whom were arminians and not southern baptist) on a college campus can throw your worldview into a loop. couple that with working in the dredges of society, the grill of a local mcdonald’s, followed by transfering to a moderate sbc university where professors say things sometimes for shock value and promote artists like derek webb and bibles like the tniv, and things were very tense when going back home. my wife and i now attend an sbc church where most congregants, including the pastor, imbibe, our church has hosted dances, nobody wears a tie, and we tend to support missionaries directly and partner with churches outside of our denomination.
needless to say, outside of writing a book, almost everything i believed when i entered my 20s has almost completely changed. i said a lot of stupid things on my journey, and some things i never lived down (to those that have passed beyond). God’s grace and love will in fact rule the Day and all things will be brought into the light of the Truth. then we’ll all be “wishing i hadn’t said anything.”
“Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few…many words mark the speech of a fool.” Ecclesiastes 5:2-3 NIV11
I used to believe that Mother Theresa was burning in hell, right next to a native African who had never heard the Gospel.
The couple who wrote that article were one of the dating example in one of Joshua Harris’ early works. Which also means they were SGMers who felt as though they had to believe these things to be an acceptable part of a community.
I don’t know if this example shows that we often regret what we say or whether we regret opening our mouths when we are stuck in certain religious circles that do not permit freedom of thought.
Many great authors started in their 20s. I wouldn’t want to deprive the world of young talent in the name of changing our minds. If we can be honest, then that it less of a regret and all the more interesting.
I was a hard core Ayn Rand libertarian. And I didn’t like Christians at all. Brainwashed fools.
My conversion to liberal politics happened about the same time that I became a Christian.
But that is life. We change. God has His hand in things.
It’s hard to know what category to put Jaycee Lee Dugard and her book “A Stolen Life” in this regard. She really is a teenager in terms of emotional development. I wonder if she wrote this book five years from now instead of now if it would be markedly different. I suspect it would be. I don’t think the 19 years of abuse she endured have been digested long enough or well enough for her to give us the story. I would like to see her write another one in ten years.
I used to think I was right and my unsolicited opinions about others’ conduct mattered.
Holly @40 succinctly captures my reflections. “Me? I regret judging other people so harshly, of thinking that I was being strong and standing for truth but was really just trumpeting my own opinions and pushing people away. Strength serves…it doesn’t have to yell and make sure that everyone agrees with it. I wish I had known this.”
Whatever the case, Ms Patchin doesn’t strike me as an exceptionally wise person, now or ever.
My 30 year-old self looks back at my 18-year-old self and says “I can’t believe I thought that.” My 50-year-old self will look back at me now and say “I can’t believe I thought that”, and so on and so forth. But, some wisdom can be gained, hopefully of the kind that doesn’t completely torpedo your belief in God.
But let’s be honest: if natural family planning both got you into Christianity and out of it, it probably wasn’t really about God to begin with. That’s not so uncommon.
A number of years in my early to mid 20′s I was part of, actually sold out to a Christian sect who believed we had the message of Paul which the rest of the Christian world needed- indeed had lost.
Among many other opinions, I was adement I would never have childre, I now have 3 amazing boys who I couldn’t imagine life without…
I thought getting involved in politics (Congress) in D.C. was a good way to go about having an impact upon the world.
Oh, thank you Andrew. I went back and read my silly typo. (…one children…ha ha!) I regret that typo.
The thing that strikes me is how utterly devoid of logic the book was. Young Christians are somehow supposed to be un natural towards the opposite sex?
Good grief. Doesn’t take a ton of insights to get a book published. “Be a eunuch and know God”!
My views have changed maybe 35% from early days. I guess if you are not changing, you were perfect from day 1.
To the gent who said he has more questions than answers, IMO, that is how it needs to be. Keep asking. I do.
I used to pray for peace and still was not be bothered by USA being (at that time) the top manufacturer and exporter of weapons. (now they’re #2, after China)
I listened to Nickleback.
hmmmm, I was trying to figure out what following Christ really was all about while surrounded by faithless academic folks, dispensationalists, pentecostal charismatics, reformed types, episcopalian & RCC charismatics, missionaries to Africa who were amazingly ethical, & those who bribed the authorities, a mother dying of cancer, people who said cancer was evidence of her lack of faith, and her friends who adopted me into their family after her death. ’twas a confusing & painful time, but I knew God’s presence with me, there, too. Now & then, committed to growing up in Christ.
I am 26 and am struggling with Jesus’ teaching. Luke 12, 14, 18 all tell us to sell or renounce all of our possessions and give them to the poor. Not to just stop over-valuing them, to rid ourselves of them.
I actually believe that Jesus calls us to complete non-violence. I don’t care what exception is allowed in Romans 13, I don’t think it is ok for a Christians to suspend their discipleship for state matters, especially ones of violence.
I believe that the church has oversimplified the doctrine of salvation. Jesus is asked point blank twice what is needed for salvation and he prescribes works. That coupled with Matt. 7 and Matt. 25 give me enough of a pause to rethink basic Christian doctrine. Works are so much more vital than the church admits.
I am told I will grow out of these. I am told I will lose my zeal for justice for the poor and to see the current church model die in favor of a more biblical concept. That I will lose my edge and radical ways. I sure hope not.
I feel like Ezra. My whole goal in life is to journey to Jerusalem. Finally I am going to Jerusalem and I am pumped. The journey was great but when I arrived to Jerusalem, the whole thing is corrupted. My Jerusalem was adulthood so that I could pursue pastoral ministry fully. Instead, I sit on the temple stairs mourning the loss of biblical christianity, mourning the cynicism of the generations before me, and the abandonment of kingdom values/ Jesus’ commands.
I have torn my robes and ripped my beard. Now I must get up and rebuild. Or assimilate… I am hoping for the former.
Kyle (64), that’s just not the sort of thing that you should be confessing on a public forum.
I nominate this for thread of the year!
@Ronnie(67) I hesitated, then prayed for grace from JC readers.
Hmmm, is there anyone who reads this blog that regrets a more liberal leaning from their 20s and has come to a more conservative or traditional view in their 30s or 40s?
I agree that this is a great thread on a fascinating subject, but it does read a bit like a recovery group for former conservatives.
I used to believe in natural theology.
I used to think the Pope was the anti-christ, or at least shaking his hand. Now my boys go to a small Catholic primary school. My faith, my prayer life, my joy, were reignited a few years back through discovering Ignation spirituality. And a Lutheran version of the rosary was an important part of that renewal. I’m also an ex-baptist who baptised both her babies!
I’d be seriously worried by someone who told me that they still believed everything they did 10 years ago, or 20 or… whether it is a radical change or a nuancing. And Holly’s last paragraph of her first post rings true for me too.
It would have been impossible for me to have liberal leanings in my 20s because I knew nothing but conservatism. I was born into a conservative town, educated at conservative schools and entered the workforce in a conservative state working for conservative managers. If there were liberals around, they weren’t showing their heads.
I was egalitarian.
I was also a (very staunch, I might add) young earth creationist, up until about the first year or so after starting graduate school. I also had several other rather extreme conservative political and theological views. For example, I believed that (most) Catholics weren’t really Christians, and that it was necessary to be baptized by immersion for salvation. I often hit my friends over the head with these views and strained more than one friendship unnecessarily.
Today, at age 31, I have few problems with evolutionary theory, but still think it is important to take Genesis seriously (read, God is the Creator and had a specific purpose for humans, who are created in His image, in mind). I still consider myself relatively conservative theologically, but in a much more nuanced way on most subjects. I have also changed my views radically on some specific doctrines and stances I used to believe (for example, I no longer believe that Catholics are not Christians and that baptism by immersion is a requirement for salvation — although I do believe baptism shouldn’t be ignored like it is in some churches). Politically, I’m much more moderate now and prefer to look for the merits in differing points of view before taking a firm stand on any particular issue.
This topic raises the question of how we come to our beliefs and how they change. Is it purely from study or do personal experience play a massive part?
I used to think gay marriage wasn’t a significant issue. Now I believe it is.
I used to believe all sorts of stuff that I now consider weird. But the subject of the article–the Torodes–wow! I actually used to read Boundless back in 2005-2006 and saw the old articles by that couple. I find it really sad that after all that they ended up divorcing. I can’t imagine that it makes raising all those kids any easier.
I believed that men had authority over women and should be deferred to in all things.
Remember that scene in “Coming to America” where Eddie Murphy meets the woman his parents have picked for him to marry, and he is trying to get to know her better? She responds to his every question about her likes and dislikes with “whatever YOU like”. That was me.
As much of a bummer as it can be to still be single, I thank GOD that I didn’t get married in my twenties, when I was walking around like I’d had a prefrontal lobotomy.
Early 20s…I had a shocking lack of understanding of what constituted core biblical theology (not peripheral issues). I love the phrase someone used above “theological turbulence”–but I was too ignorant to encounter that much at all until now in my latter 30s!
I thought my opinions actually mattered.
Lainie #80, without knowing your context, your comment saddens me. All of us, at just about every point of time, hold opinions that are mistaken or skewed. I hope you don’t doubt your worth because you believe your opinions don’t matter. May we affirm to one another our value in God’s sight, and in God’s purposes among his children. You matter.
I used to be a Christian.
First evangelical Baptist, then liberal Mennonite. Now happily atheist / naturalist / humanist (pick a label).
I remember thinking, very explicitly, when I was 15 (I’d just read something by Josh McDowell or Lee Strobel), that I knew too much not to be a Christian. In retrospect, that thought is very funny to me.
I also had a pastor who said “follow the evidence wherever it leads.” I did.
I just left my 20′s this year. Looking back I can’t think of anything I believed that I’m embarrassed about in hindsight. Give me a couple more years
But I will say this: during my 20′s my wife and I had our first child, spent 2 1/2 years loving him with all his special needs, and then grieved when he suddenly died.
Now I certainly speak of suffering, grief, and death differently than when I first came out of bible school.
I listened to Rush Limbuagh
I was an atheist.
When I was 20, I read Boundless every week. ‘Nuff said.
Proving my point. I used to think I was right or wrong simply because others agreed or disagreed. Now, if I have a good reason to believe it, I’ll still try to persuade others that might be persuaded. It helped when I realized that the people who listen to me the most carefully are often the ones more intelligent than I am. The opposite I’ve seen to be true for those who argue most forcefully.