Anyone who has examined the Gospels searching for how Jesus understood himself or for clues that he thought he was God, as we affirm in our creeds and is standard belief, knows that the Gospel texts are not as cooperative as we sometimes think. But there are clues that must be considered, especially the old line that anyone who thought of themselves as Jesus did is either off the map or genuinely did see himself in extraordinary, divine terms.
But this whole theme has been served a very significant treatment now in the published dissertation of Sigurd Grindheim, and I’m encouraging anyone who can do such a thing to write to their library (theological) and urge the immediate purchase of this new outstanding book: God’s Equal: What Can We Know About Jesus’ Self-Understanding? (Library Of New Testament Studies). Yes, it’s expensive; yes, libraries are the place for such a book.
I hope eventually a more affordable version of this excellent piece will be available. Here’s what Grindheim does:
His contention is that Jesus made himself “God’s equal.”
He examines God’s kingdom, the miracles of Jesus, Jesus and forgiveness, Jesus as eschatological judge, Jesus and the law, Jesus’ relationship to his followers, Jesus’ metaphorical self-descriptions, mediatory figures in Second Temple Judaism, Jesus as unique Son who is both subordinate and equal, Jesus as Son of Man and Jesus as new temple.
“The Jesus who emerges then is a Jesus who said and did only what God could say and do.”
I would side with James Mcgrath in saying that many of the things Jesus said and did reguarding his relationship to God have there parallels in Second Temple Judaism but I would also say that many of the questions asked by the Church fathers and the Ecumenical Councils simply were not considered by the Evangelist and the Early Church. This does not mean we are an illegitimate Church but we did develope over time, though I tend to affirm the divinity of Jesus via Gospel text by seeing Jesus as God’s icon on Earth, that way I can allow the Gospel’s to share with us their experiences of Jesus while at the same time staying true to what I believe/hope to be true about the reality and nature of God. Having your cake and eating it too isn’t always a bad thing you know?
Comment by Brian — October 2, 2011 @ 1:58 pm
Dr Grindheim was one of my profs at TEDS back in the day… glad to see this published and eager to read it! Thanks Scot!
Comment by Andrew Arndt — October 2, 2011 @ 2:11 pm
There are several ways Jesus made this case that we miss, believe me, the ancient Jews didn’t miss it.
There’s a good reason Caiaphas ripped his priestly garments in anger and accused Jesus of blasphemy and demanded His execution when Jesus simply stated, “You said it and hereafter you will see Me coming in the clouds of glory with power”.
“Coming in the clouds” is what set Caiaphas off. He understood exactly what Jesus was claiming, to be Yahweh.
All ancient religious minded Jews understood that.
Things like “All judgement has been handed to Me” are = to, “I am Yahweh”. That’s a Divine claim. Why? Because the OT says Yahweh will judge the living and the dead and those ancient religious Jews knew this.
There are tons of these type references, unfortunately, too much of the Church doesn’t get that Christ is the visible Yahweh present in the OT text. We’ve become Marcionites to a large extent.
John 1:14 “and He tabernacled among us”. No ancient Jew could miss that point. That’s Yahweh in the wilderness motif tabernacle they carried with them in the desert, the “tent of meeting”. It’s us that miss these things not written in modern US centric thought, the ancient Jew knew what Jesus was saying.
Comment by Patrick — October 2, 2011 @ 2:36 pm
Surely the Son of Man coming on the clouds is a reference to the angel – not God – in Daniel 7. The Word (logos) is a sort of extension of God, ‘Neither created nor uncreated’ according to Philo. It’s ambiguous, neither God nor not-God. Both theos (divine) and ‘with’ ho theos (the God, the top guy, ie the Father) in the prologue to John. John says the logos became flesh and lived among us, but is that blasphemy? And how do we know that Jesus said these things anyway, rather than Matthew and John putting them in his mouth.
Comment by Robert — October 2, 2011 @ 4:50 pm
Patrick, you state:
Things like “All judgement has been handed to Me” are = to, “I am Yahweh”
Who handed the judgment to Jesus? Are you saying that Yahweh handed the judgment to Yahweh?
Comment by Brian — October 2, 2011 @ 5:33 pm
I love how Jesus’ questions to his disciples are just as relevant today.
Jesus presents himself throughout scripture, his teachings, the church through the ages, etc. but his questions still wait for each of us to answer.
“What are others saying about me?… Who do you say that I am?”
Comment by Brian — October 2, 2011 @ 6:00 pm
#6 Brian here, maybe I should go by another name! Since it looks like there’s another Brian on comment #1 & 5. I guess from now on I’ll go by my youtube channel, Psalms4guitar.
Comment by Brian — October 2, 2011 @ 6:03 pm
Brian,
Yes . There are 2 separate, but, = Yahweh’s in the OT text just like the NT text, Father and Son . Ancient Jews believed there were 2 manifestations( they saw it as 1 Yahweh, 2 different manifestations) of Yahweh until they rejected Christ as the visible Yahweh.
Read , “2 Powers in Heaven” by Alan Segal. He’s an Orthodox Jew who discovered this( for modern Orthodox Jews) and documents it.
Check this out for some some examples:
http://www.twopowersinheaven.com/2powersweb1/player.html
Jesus claimed to be Yahweh in several different ways. You pretty much need to study ANE literature to understand why “cloud rider” = Yahweh. There was a dialectic among the Jews and Canaanites about whose God “rode the clouds”.
Yahweh or Ba’al?
When Jesus made that statement, Caiaphas flipped and accused Him of blasphemy for making Himself = to Yahweh. His opponents did this several times when Jesus made various comments. Like I said, the ancient Jews fully knew Jesus was claiming to be Yahweh and He was because He is.
The Yahweh always visible in the OT text.
Comment by Patrick — October 2, 2011 @ 9:14 pm
Thanks for the heads up. I will put in a request at ORU’s library this week! Sounds like a must have.
Comment by Alex R. — October 2, 2011 @ 9:28 pm
Robert,
Jesus absolutely knew he was God. It is inconceivable that someone could be Divine and not be aware of it. Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God,” and Jesus didn’t correct him. John the Apostle, the best friend of Jesus, said of him, “And the Word was God,” and I think that if anyone knew the truth of Who Jesus was, it would be John. Jesus said that He had seen Satan fall from heaven, that he was around before Abraham, and he did things like forgiving sin that only God could do. And, of course, the risen and ascended Christ in the Book of Revelation says straight up that He is divine.
Brian,
God is not a person. There are three distinct Persons within the Godhead. God the Father (one person) handed authrity over to God the Son (a second person).
Comment by Hector_St_Clare — October 2, 2011 @ 11:59 pm
Fictional, but solidly grounded in Scripture, including some Apocryphal works, is Jesus of Nazareth: How He Understood His Life, by Raymund Schwager
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Nazareth-How-Understood-Life/dp/0824517113/
Few books so firmly plant Jesus in the Old Testament as this one does.
Comment by EricW — October 3, 2011 @ 9:18 am
Another Hebraic OT way Jesus proclaimed, “I am Yahweh” was when he stated, “All judgement has been given to Me”.
Another is when He stated, “Your sins are forgiven”.
Jesus going around with a sign on his back stating, “I am Yahweh” would not have been more definitive to a Jew in 30 AD.
Comment by Patrick — October 3, 2011 @ 11:28 pm
ISTM that most who argue the orthodox line are doing so in a rather preposterously anachronistic manner following the results of the arguments of Jesus’ opponents, the one’s who were the offspring of their father the devil. Jesus himself said that “the Father is greater than I.” Why, pray tell, should we believers in and followers of Jesus our Lord, Savior, and God un-reflectively adopt the arguments and conclusions of those who JESUS said were of the father of lies to confirm our arguments? Jesus never said “I am Yahweh.” Period. Jesus said authority had been GIVEN TO HIM and never said that it was HIS by right, nature, much less because he was one ESSENCE with His Father. Again, ISTM that most all of the arguments for pure creedal orthodoxy are altogether dependent on arguments that go beyond what scripture actually and explicitly says, and it is in the Jesus of these arguments that most orthodox believers put their faith rather than the plain Jesus of Apostolic affirmation. OSISTM
PS: I know, this thread long ago ran its course, and shall be evermore consigned to the contemporarily inconsequential archives. Selah
Comment by Richard Worden Wilson — November 30, 2011 @ 1:36 am
Do we not care about the creed of Jesus, the one he endorsed in agreement with a Jewish scribe? Do Christians actually believe the words of Jesus, or is Christianity the only world religion which begins by discarding its own founder’s creed (in Mark 12:29). In Ps. 110:1 there are not two YHVH’s! Yahweh, the one and only YHVH, addresses in an oracle a second lord (not Lord). Adoni, my lord, is never a title of Deity, but always of a non-Deity superior. 1300 times in the NT the Father is called GOD.
In what verse in the Bible can “God” be shown to mean a Triune God? All is clear, if we begin by listneing to Jesus in Mark 12:29. Can you show that this was a Trinitarian creed? If not, let us return to Jesus, the greatest intellect of them all!
Anthony Buzzard MA Oxon, MA Th, Hon. PhD
Comment by Anthony Buzzard — January 5, 2012 @ 6:01 pm