Admitting Ignorance

So what does orthodox theology say about “hell”? To answer this question we might want to ask another question, one that Tony Thiselton raises in his sketch of classic German liberal thinker: If love is a permanent feature of God, and wrath is not a permanent feature of God, then how can hell be eternal? Thiselton doesn’t really chase this idea down in his book Life after Death, but he does sketch the three major views of the early church.

Relying on the well-known study of David Powys on hell and the afterlife (‘hell’: a Hard Look at a Hard Question), Thiselton observes that there were actually three views in the time when orthodoxy became fixed, and no one view dominated. The three are:

1. A vague form of annihilationism, perhaps connected to what is today called “conditional immortality,” namely, that only God is life, that immortality is a gift of God, that no one has immortality by nature, and that therefore the final state of the wicked is not immortality but destruction. Powys maps this view in Irenaeus, and he was connected to a widespread apostolic tradition.

2. Gregory of Nyssa taught a kind of universalism, namely one in which God’s love and life eventually overcomes all sin and wickedness and rebellion. All will be restored to their original state — that’s the view of Nyssa.

3. Augustine taught eternal, conscious torment. God raises unto punishment. Augustine was followed by Aquinas and Calvin and many. [Read more...]

Clark Pinnock’s Thoughts on Hell

When Rob Bell unleashed the fury of responses to his book Love Wins, many were caught off guard. Why? Because many did not know that this issue has been simmering among evangelicals for a generation. In some ways it began when John Stott confessed he was an annihilationist, which brought to the surface the fact that a number of UK theologians were also annihilationists (like John Wenham, RT France, et al).

That statement of Stott’s gave others courage to come forward, and it appears the late Clark Pinnock was one of them. Clark’s piece in Four Views on Hell is one of the finer brief sketches of the annihilationist view. I want to touch on a few of his ideas this morning.

To begin with, here is his sketch of the traditional view:

According to the larger picture, we are asked to believe that God endlessly tortures sinners by the million, sinners who perish because the Father has decided not to elect them to salvation, though he could have done so, and whose torments are supposed to gladden the hearts of believers in heaven. The problems with this doctrine are both extensive and profound (136).

Then he asks this question:

Would God who tells us to love our enemies be intending to wreak vengeance on his enemies for all eternity? (140)

Hell is proof of how seriously God takes human freedom (142). [Read more...]

Do You Believe in… “optimal grace”?

The best book I’ve read on hell is by Jerry Walls, and it is called: Hell: The Logic Of Damnation. Not only is the book readable, and not only is the book alert to the scholarship on this heavy topic, but it lands on fundamentally important ideas that make us think, and re-think, what we believe.

The fundamental issue animating this book is the morality of hell, or put differently and in a question, Can a morally and absolutely good God punish the wicked eternally in a place we call hell? How is such an action morally coherent if God is good? Some people don’t find such questions viable or important, but I do and so this book mattered (and matters) to me.

I can’t possibly summarize this book adequately but I will say that is worth your effort. Instead of a full summary, I want to make sketch a few of his conclusions and then focus on but one of those.

Questions for today: Do you believe in this idea of “optimal grace”? Do you think God’s goodness entails optimal grace?

First, Walls believes in libertarian free will, which means humans, when confronted with a decision, are also capable of choosing other than they did. Second, Walls contends the Calvinist approach to God’s goodness and eternal punishment/hell is rationally inconsistent and incoherent, since it wavers between determinism/compatibilism (God determines everything, or determinism and choice are compatible) and libertarian free will. I would add that the Calvinist notion that God determines everything then followed by asserting God is not responsible for evil makes no sense to me. Asserting something doesn’t make it viable or coherent. So I agree with Walls. Third, Walls takes traditional views on both human misery, though he does a much better job than most at showing that humans enter into their own designed miseries, and that hell is some kind of place.

What I want to focus on today, though, is another of his ideas: the idea of optimal grace. [Read more...]

Erasing Hell: Might Makes Right (Jeff Cook)

By Jeff Cook

Erasing Hell – Might Makes Right

Hell is making us all think really hard about God. In order to push our thinking I am working through a few big ideas in Dr. Preston Sprinkle and Francis Chan’s recent book, Erasing Hell: What God Said About Eternity and What We Have Made Up. I have deep admiration and respect for these two men, and their book is worth our careful reading and engagement.

To get things going let me float our question right up front: Does God’s immense power and knowledge give him “the right” to do whatever he wants?

A central claim of Chan and Sprinkle—which creates their foundation (and breathing room) for embracing the traditional view of hell as eternal conscious torment—is the idea that whatever God chooses to do is, by definition, “right”. At the outset, the writers in defining the purpose of their book say,

“This book is actually much more than a book on hell. It’s a book about embracing a God who isn’t always easy to understand, and whose ways are far beyond us; a God whose thoughts are much higher than our thoughts; a God who, as the sovereign Creator and Sustainer of all things, has the right to do, as the psalmist says, “whatever He pleases” (Ps. 115:3). God has the right to do WHATEVER he pleases. If I’ve learned one thing from studying hell, it’s this last line. And whether or not you end up agreeing with everything I say about hell, you must agree with Psalm 115:3 (p.17, emphasis theirs). [Read more...]

Freewill Theism and Universalism

John Sanders is a well-known Christian theologian and philosopher at Hendrix College, and is perhaps known most for his advocacy of open theism. He is a freewill theist, and so his philosophical and theological expertise was brought into the discussion to engage Thomas Talbott’s case for universalism in the book, Universal Salvation?: The Current Debate, edited by Robin Parry (aka, Gregory Macdonald) and Christopher Partridge.

In my last post from this book I cobbled together three observations from Eric Reitan’s chp in order to engage in a conversation about the conditions for hell, but I admit that I didn’t do justice to Reitan’s own interests in that chp (and didn’t intend to). In this post I want more to discuss what Sanders is arguing, and it will be difficult because to do full justice to Sanders we have to summarize Talbott, and to do both of those things would take a post too long to read. So, I will do my best to sketch some of Sanders’ major points.

Talbott argues the case for universalism, arguing in essence that humans, if they are fully rational etc, will eventually choose God and that God’s love means God will seek their best and that God’s love and the endless opportunity to choose, and the justice of making humans fully capable of a reasonable choice combine to create a condition in which universalism is certain.

Does Talbott’s view of being fully rational respect human choice adequately? Do you consider free will essential to how God made us? Does God “risk” when God makes humans and gives them free will? Or, does a libertarian sense of free will entail that God had to take risks when God made humans? Why do you think God made a world in which humans could rebel against God? Is that the best of all possible worlds? Why?

Followers of this academic debate will not be surprised to learn that Sanders doesn’t think Talbott takes freewill theory seriously enough. In the end, Sanders thinks Talbott robs choice of power because God makes conditions that virtually require, or at least necessarily entail, a choice for God.

He begins with a smaller point: Talbott’s belief that humans in heaven can’t be happy knowing the suffering of those in hell. Sanders’ big point is that we don’t know the heavenly condition or ourselves well enough to render such a judgment.

[Read more...]

A Calvinist Response to Universalism

In the book, Universal Salvation?: The Current Debate, edited by Robin Parry (aka, Gregory Macdonald) and Christopher Partridge, Daniel F. Strange, a UK Calvinist, responds to Thomas Talbott’s universalism. I cannot possibly enter into the intricacies of the issues here so I will do my best to sketch the major ideas in Strange’s case against Talbott and universalism. Of all the responses to these issues, this is one of the first by a Calvinist that willingly (and truly) embraces Calvinistic categories of particular redemption. Most of those who responded to Rob Bell did so on non-Calvinists bases, and had they operated as consistent Calvinists the debate would have been much simpler.

Do you think Strange has adequately responded to Talbott? What do you think of his three-fold breakdown of the kinds of God’s love? What about his idea that if Christ died for all, then universalism is true? [He disagrees since he doesn't think Christ died for all.]

First, Strange is a compatibilist: that is, he thinks God’s complete sovereignty and the presence of evil are compatible without making God the author of evil; he thinks the freedom of humans cannot be explained coherently or biblically in the libertarian theory of freedom, and this means that humans are not free to act outside God’s control or outside human nature); and the final explanation for a theodicy — the reality of evil in a world made by God — is not to be found in freewill but in the sovereignty of God.

Second, he thinks Talbott minimizes the sinfulness of sin and does not see that God’s punishment against sin is not remedial or restorative but retributive as an overflow of the wrath of God against human rebellion against God’s glory. Hell is God’s undiluted anger against sinners. And he think sinners, after death, are irremediably and incurably sunk into rebellion forever. This justifies endless punishment (he cites Revelation 22:11). The sinner wants to live forever in order to sin forever. In addition, Strange says Talbott minimizes propitiation — that on the cross God poured out his wrath against sin and that Christ absorbed that wrath — and Strange thinks this is “the most important concept” of the atonement. But he also affirms the view that sin against an infinite being entails an infinite/eternal/endless punishment. [Read more...]

Erasing Hell (Jeff Cook) 2

This post is by Jeff Cook, and it examines how “desire” is connected to our view of the fate of the wicked.

Erasing Hell: On Desire   (Jeff Cook)

I realize some of you are tiring of this discussion, but I love the hell debate taking place this year. The dialogue is much bigger than the dark side of the afterlife. The questions being raised about hell cannot be separated from an analysis of God’s character, how we interpret scripture, how Christians disagree constructively, what we can know about God and his intentions, as well as the nature of goodness, justice and love. The central pillars of philosophy—epistemology, ethics, and metaphysics—as well as the heart of theology—God’s attributes and self-disclosure—are each under reconsideration because of this debate at the most popular levels of American Christianity—and that’s a great thing.

What does it tell us/you that many of us “wish” there wasn’t an eternal hell? Do you think God could have created a world in which there would be no hell? Why, then, do you think there is a hell?

Hell is making us all think really hard about God.

After reading Erasing Hell: What God said about eternity, and the things we made up a handful of questions came to my mind and over the next month I would like to explore a few with you. These are not meant as a critique of Sprinkle and Chan’s book. Instead, Erasing Hell will serve as a launching point for considering beliefs I think Christians ought to be more critical of.

Let’s start with emotions and desires. Frequently in Erasing Hell, Sprinkle and Chan said they “did not” want hell to exist. For example: [Read more...]

Review of Francis Chan, Erasing Hell, by Jeff Cook

Erasing Hell – A Response (Jeff Cook)

I have deep respect for the work of both Francis Chan and Dr. Preston Sprinkle. In their recent book Erasing Hell: What God said about eternity, and the things we made up, the authors move the discussion of hell through a few chapters of Bible study and into the realm of philosophic thought: discussing the nature of love, God’s goodness, and our ability to conceptualize God’s priorities. I continue to appreciate Chan and Sprinkle’s hearts, and unlike some recent works seeking to display what is best to believe about God’s future, Erasing Hell is worthy of discussion and critique.

Dress it up however you wish, Erasing Hell is a response book to Rob Bell’s Love Wins, yet despite replicating Bell’s style in their cover art and promotional video—the primary problem in my mind with Erasing Hell is that the authors do not speak to the same audience.

Recall the motivation behind Bell’s book, “I’ve written this book for all those, everywhere, who have heard some version of the Jesus story that caused their pulse rate to rise, their stomach to churn, and their heart to utter those resolute words, ‘I would never be a part of that’ You are not alone. There are millions of us.” (viii).

This is primary. Bell wants to speak to a large number of people who reject the Jesus faith because of the way Christians have interpreted and displayed hell. [Read more...]

The Three Conditions of Hell

Many today wonder if a loving and good God can “punish” humans endlessly in hell in a way that can be called just. There are, however, actually two kinds of eternal punishment doctrine. One can be called hard retribution. This view argues that God sets out the conditions, humans knowingly (or corruptedly knowingly) choose otherwise, and God’s just retribution is eternal. In this case, eternal hell is divine punishment and is viewed from the angle of God’s punishments. A second view, which some call “progressive,” and which focuses not on the divine side but on the human choice, is just that: humans knowingly choose hell endlessly. I would call this non-retributive eternal hell instead of progressive. I think this is an important distinction. Which all raises the conditions for hell: what is required for hell to be just? If many think that the retributive model ultimately fails to meet the “justice” or “goodness” test, what about the non-retributive model? What would be the conditions for a non-retributive model that is ultimately just and compatible with a good God?

In the book, Universal Salvation?: The Current Debate, edited by Robin Parry (aka, Gregory Macdonald) and Christopher Partridge, Eric Reitan puts together the three conditions for hell. In other words, for hell to be “fair” or “deserved” or “just,” the following three conditions must be met: [Read more...]

Jeff Cook’s Response: A Confession of a Seeker

From Jeff Cook.

We Need Better Answers. A Response to Mark Galli.

I love and admire Francis Chan and Mark Galli, and am very grateful for the fruit of their lives, and even for their upcoming work on hell. I want to continue to dialogue about present issues in the church with class and respect and in that spirit, I want to offer a disclaimer. I am going to bring my argument strong and candidly with no antagonism toward anyone in particular, just a deep unrest at the present state of Christian thought.

During the recent rapture hoopla I heard a commentator say, “Making fun of born again Christians is like hunting dairy cows with a high powered rifle and scope.” I assume it’s because he thinks ridiculing Christians is not very challenging, and after a while it’s not very fun. But this insult contains a nugget of truth.

Christians hold in their hands the most profound sets of insights into the human condition ever constructed and yet despite their numbers and resources they consistently produce the most lack luster art, literature and academic thought available in popular circles. For example, I find the “Christian living” section of the local bookstore—with a few exceptions—a disheartening place because apparently this set of texts is the best our culture can do when displaying Jesus Christ and his plan for the world. [Read more...]