The real reason anti-LGBT Christians are so obsessed with sex?

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This morning a pal messaged me:

Why the hell are conservative Christians so obsessed with sex? I mean, really?

It’s been my experience that everyone is obsessed with sex. Research indicates that the average person has a pretty significantly raunchy sexual thought 9, 345,865,9863,840,084,972,907,76423,238,906,853,042,794,735,320,934,659,872,712, 731.2 times a day.

Hey, man. You can’t argue with facts.

And yet, somehow, regular people manage not to have other people’s sex lives be something that they cannot seem to stop publicly writing about, talking about, and trying to control through fear, intimidation, horrendous hyperbole, and the construction of public policies so atrociously stupid they should be written in crayon.

Whence this dysfunction? What are anti-gay Christians missing that regular people have? Or what do they have that regular people don’t?

What they have (or, at least, what they think they have) is Official Permission—permission from God, no less—to make other people’s private business their business.

They have all the obsession over sex that regular people do—plus they believe that the All-Powerful Creator of  the Universe desires them to stop everyone in the world from having any sex that’s different from the kind they imagine Ward and June Cleaver had, exactly twice.

And how great is that for them? Don’t you wish your pastor regularly enjoined everyone in your church to get out there and make the sex lives of others their personal business? I sure do!

Well, actually, I don’t. Because I think sex is gross. But I’m old. When I have sex it is gross.

But the point is: Christians who campaign against LGBT love are thrilled with their belief that God wants them buzzing around other people’s sex lives like Beavis and Butthead operating a drone over a nude beach.

They’re not being prurient, intrusive, voyeuristic, arrogant, condescending, lewd and rude.

No, no, no.

They’re being pious, see. They’re doing God’s work.

Of course anti-gay Christians won’t give up their blatantly flawed theology until you pry it from the hand of theirs that’s not busily occupied doing something they don’t want their first hand to know about.

Because what fun would that be?

If anti-LGBT Christians got real about the Bible, what would that leave them to do except worry about their own business?

 

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • BarbaraR

    Jesus told Peter, “Feed my sheep.” You’d think that directive – which he said three times! – would carry more weight than, “Concern yourself excessively about what other people are doing in bed,” which Jesus also said three times never.

  • RJ (TO)

    I guess it’s less inconvenient to complain about what your neighbors are doing in their bedroom then to knock on their door with a carrot cake.

  • http://GracefullyTrans.wordpress.com/ Brettany Renée Blatchley

    “9,345,865,9863,840,084,972,907,76423,238,906,853,042,794,735,320,934,659,872,712,731.2 times a day”

    Not me John: no gonads and eight weeks without estrogen recently and: my gender identity said “female” while my body said “meh.” Very odd feeling!!

    *SERIOUSLY* most people have no idea just how greatly we are influenced by our sex hormones!!! I’ve experienced one, the other, both and none and I can tell you it has a massive influence on how much I think about sex and how…

    …*Blessedly* I’m back on my meds and my body and gender identity joyfully agree again!! Now I’m back up to a couple of “sexually raunchy” thoughts a day!! {giggle}

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    > *SERIOUSLY* most people have no idea just how greatly we are influenced by our sex hormones!!!

    Yep. Pre-transition on estrogen I had barely any thoughts about sex (other than “ew, gross”) to the point that I thought I was asexual. Then I started testosterone and almost immediately wanted to have sex with everything in sight.

  • Andy

    “Then I started testosterone and almost immediately wanted to have sex with everything in sight.”

    Yep, that’s how it works.

  • RJ (TO)

    “What are anti-gay Christians missing that regular people have?”

    A satisfying sex life, I’m going to guess. When they’re so uptight and repressed sexually I imagine it must be hard to enjoy non-missionary, non-procreative sex without being consumed by guilt and shame. So it’s a simple matter of “If we can’t have wild, uninhibited sex then you can’t either.”

  • http://johnshore.com/ John Shore

    It’s amazing how often they basically come right out and say that–or something so close to it they may as well have. It’s just … so jaw-dropping, every time. And they always get that same angry gleam in their eye, when they say, basically–well, just what you’ve said they’re thinking. A very conservative pastor spit out to me just the other day, before he even realized what he was saying, “Why should the gays have all their fun doing whatever they want?”

  • RJ (TO)

    Which of course brings us to the infamous CCC’s (Conservative Closet Cases) whose anti-gay venom is a by-product of their resentment toward those who live their lives out in the open without (*gasp*) shame or guilt (or fear of eternal hellfire).

  • Matt

    That is so…incredibly sad beyond words.

  • http://zzapp.com JonsBlog

    Yes, John, you nailed one of the primary reasons anti-LGBT bigots are so
    obsessed with sex in general. But you failed to mention what is
    perhaps an equally strong reason they are so preoccupied about non-straight sex in
    particular: They choose to labor under the condescendingly arrogant
    conviction that sex is the only important component of LGBT lives, and
    that nothing much else occupies our minds, hopes, and dreams. I’m sure
    this fallacy gives their fragile sense of superiority great comfort, but
    of course it could not possibly be further from the truth.

  • http://johnshore.com/ John Shore

    Jon: I have made the very good point you raise here, in about … I dunno … a hundred other blog posts. But you know how it is: one post, one point. That’s all there’s every really any room for in such a short space. But, again, you make a point that really can’t be made often enough.

  • lymis

    One thing I’ve noticed is that so many of these people desperately want sex to have a built-in punishment. For straight sex, that’s pregnancy, even more than STD’s. And I think it’s what’s really behind the obsessive and unreasonable battle against both sex education and reliable, available contraception.

    The claim is that they are opposed to abortion – but anyone who’s opposed to contraception and comprehensive sex education loses any credibility about being opposed to abortion. They’re clearly simply opposed to sex.

    You saw it the way so many anti-gay Christians leapt on the idea that AIDS was God’s punishment, and that rather than an opportunity to reach out in love and care for the sick and dying, it was a perfect excuse to double down on criminalizing gay sex. AIDS and HIV aren’t gone by any means, but listening to some of the rhetoric, they’re pissed as hell that it’s increasingly treatable. And the more that HIV becomes manageable, the more we see the resurrection of all the idiotic and repeatedly disproven claim that being gay shortens people’s lifetimes by decades.

  • Lynne

    Good point. Sex should never have any sort of punishment attached to it.

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    > One thing I’ve noticed is that so many of these people desperately want sex to have a built-in punishment.

    To be perfectly honest, I do, too. But I also realise that that’s because of my own issues and perhaps jealousy at people who can have relationships and sex (my parents said no sex before marriage because the Bible says so, and I want to honour that in part to show that if my straight brother can do it despite having a girlfriend, being gay and trans doesn’t inherently make me more susceptible to temptation or prevent me from having that same amount of self-control. I have also not yet been able to convince them that the Bible allows pre-marital sex in the way I’ve convinced them that the Bible doesn’t condemn consensual gay relationships built on mutual love).

    And in my case I target straight cis people in particular, because it pisses me off that they can have random sex and casual flings with all sorts of people and see no issue with it, but then start frothing at the mouth if a gay couple so much as holds hands, or write long diatribes over why it’s unethical and possibly rape for any transgender person to so much as flirt with a cis person. So there’s a sadistic, unloving, unchristian part of me that gets secretly happy and filled with schadenfreude when they end up with STDs or get pregnant, but yeah I know that’s wrong and I make no pretenses otherwise. I fully own up to my sadism, sexual repression and little ball of roiling hatred.

  • Matt

    Dude, talk about unnecessary pressure on yourself. I hate to sound harsh, but who cares what straight guys do or don’t do? Who cares what they say about transgender people daring to have a sex life? That doesn’t change the fact that you deserve to connect with another human being–yes, including sexually.

    There are different kinds of self-control. As you know, I’m trans as well, and haven’t been a virgin for years. I’ve had sex with men and women. But I’m never casual about it. I’ve never cheated on any of my partners. Monogamous marriage is my ultimate goal. Every single time I go in prepared to marry my partner; it just hasn’t worked out that way yet. I’m single right now and I have a full life outside of sex–my job, my friends, my church. I will never for a moment deny the fact that I’m a sexual human being who wants connection deeply. And that doesn’t make me less of a Christian.

    It’s one thing to fully own up to your hatred and repression–that’s admirable in and of itself. But it’s hurting you too, more than anyone else. I know you know how to treat other people–I’ve seen you comment here for years. That’s all you need to have a “good” Christian sex life. Forget the other stuff. If you went out right now and found a guy to sleep with, I know you’d treat him honorably and be a good guy after it was all said and done. I just wish you’d turn that awesome compassion and goodwill on yourself. Best to you, anakin.

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    thanks. <3

    A large part of it is a culture thing – I'm in a conservative Asian society where pre-marital sex is still socially frowned upon. Lots of people still do it anyway, but a good number don't. So I'm always astutely aware of how it would look if most of the cishet population (including all of my family members) dutifully adhere to that chaste standard, while I, the one queer person most of them know, am also the one person who doesn't seem to have enough sexual self-control to do the same. (When I know I do – heck, I managed to abstain from any sexual release for 93 days last year, as a way to train my willpower and self-control.) I guess it's also about proving that to myself: because if my straight cis friends and family can do it, why can't I? I've spent so much of my time and effort telling people that being LGBT doesn't mean you're inherently more promiscuous or sex-obsessed than anyone else, so this is one way that I lead by example; to do otherwise would make me a hypocrite. And I know the expectations that my parents have for me and my brother when it comes to our love lives, and I really don't want to be the one who disappoints them. I love them too much.

    Perhaps what makes it worse is that ideally I *do* want to live my life according to that strict conservative standard: having a chaste romantic relationship with a guy that leads eventually to monogamous marriage. It doesn't work for everyone, but it does for me. But the trans thing complicates that, because most people (at least here) who are willing to sleep with trans people – especially gay ones – still view us as an exotic sexual experience rather than marriage material, where in that sense they don't see the point of dating a trans person who isn't open to sex. They'd already be compromising on some level to date someone who's trans, and if I add on pre-marital celibacy to that I'd be really pushing my luck. So if I compromise there – agreeing to sex so that people would be more willing to date me – it would also feel like I'd be selling myself short and giving in to a transphobic double standard. But if I don't, my options greatly dwindle.

    I'm not even sure if I care that much about having sex with people. I have a strong sex drive, but I also have two functional hands that take care of that fine. I also have strong body dysphoria and I don't know if I'd even be able to *have* sex with another person without having a panic attack or just lying there and crying. It's the relationship and connection and love that I crave much more, and my pride – for better or worse – gets in the way of me being able to willingly agree to sex just to get those things, because I shouldn't *have* to, no more than all the straight cis Christian people around me who get to openly date *and* not feel pressured into sex before they're ready, just so they can earn that relationship. My brother and his girlfriend have a beautiful thing going, and the both of them have agreed to wait till marriage, and their love and connection is palpable. I want something like that so badly.

    Maybe I should just find an asexual gay guy. :/

  • Giauz Ragnarock

    C-C-COUGH-HACK-NINETY-THREE DAYS!??! :~)

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    It took lots of practice slowly ramping up – from three times a day to two, to one, to once every other day, etc. The first week is always the hardest. My previous record was about 40 days; I know one guy who made it two years. The standard challenge at Reddit’s r/nofap community is 90 days. It was more of a personal challenge for me (those who do it out of guilt rarely get farhealthy) and an extremely good way to train willpower. I also got a lot more energetic, everybody seemed a whole lot more attractive, I gained a greater appreciation for the little joys of life that had been previously underwhelming against anything sexual, and my social anxiety went away for the first time in years. I later learnt that training willpower has a positive effect on curing anxiety and OCD compulsions, which I’d had to a fairly severe degree, so that was a really good bonus. Then around the 60th day I entered this sort of zen state where everything was beautiful and nothing in this world mattered at all. It was awesome. I keep wanting to attempt it again, but I haven’t been able to make it more than a week since.

  • Giauz Ragnarock

    I was just mimicing my previous comment back when you were at 15 days or so :)

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    You remember? XD

  • Giauz Ragnarock

    Like a cutaway joke on Family Guy, yes, I remember! I embrace the goofiness and fun in life where I find it!

  • Chris Dagostino

    If only Joshua Harris and Bill Gothard were as honest as you are.

    If I may offer some advice, look up another one of John’s articles here called “The Myth of the Christian Eunuch” and a comment by a user named KenLeonardPO beneath it. I was in the exact same place you’re in, and it’s bad. Very bad.

  • lymis

    It’s important to remember that just because something isn’t mandatory – or coerced with the threat of punishment, it’s still not available as a personal moral choice.

    If you feel that reserving sex for marriage is the right answer, that’s fine. But you don’t need to demand punishment for yourself or anyone else who doesn’t do so.

    In fact, for me, if the only reason you do something is because you’re afraid of the punishment, you’re not actually making the moral choice you think you are.

    Instead, promote the positive. It’s not like waiting to marry guarantees a loving, respectful, happy sex life. And it’s not like having premarital sex prevents ever having a healthy marital sex life, either.

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    Thanks. For me, the main reasons I’m reserving sex for marriage:

    1) my parents say so, and honouring one’s parents is a hugely important thing in Asian culture; it’s one of the main markers of a person’s morality

    2) I don’t want to sell myself short. if I had been straight and cis, I would have waited, and it sucks thinking that I have to compromise because that ideal is much less attainable in the gay community

    3) My reasons *not* to wait aren’t that good:

    a) the fear that no one would want to date a trans person for reasons other than exotic sexual experimentation because that’s all we’re good for, meaning that if I withhold sex then nobody will have any reason to be with me; or would at least be making a heavy compromise when they could be with a cis guy instead.

    b) the fear that if I wait till marriage I might discover only after marriage that I can’t have sex because of too much body dysphoria, or that my partner isn’t attracted to my body, and then I’ll be dooming someone I love to either a sexless marriage, sex with someone they’re not attracted to or which makes them uncomfortable, or to divorce or adultery. Whereas if I try out sex first and it doesn’t work out, we could just break up, no harm done, and I’ll know then that I can’t do this sex thing and will content myself to just being single or finding an asexual partner.

  • Lookingup73

    It is strange that Christians (and other religious, and certainly not just conservative Christians) have this obsession with sex. The source of the problem is that they associate sex (a completely natural function) with some sort of relationship with God. (Is there anything creepier than someone talking about sex and God? Not really). So therefore, there is a narrative and way of talking about sex that enters into the spiritual/moral realm. Suddenly there is “sin” that is associated with some forms of sexual expression. This makes no logical sense. But religion is only able to survive and control people (its main goal) by manipulating people’s natural urges (eating – there are rules on that in most religions – none of which make any sense; sex – there is no logical reason why masturbation is wrong, or non-procreative sex, or gay sex, or oral sex or non-monogamous sex for that matter). But let’s be clear – many Christians think about others’ sex lives*. Even gay-affirming folks are pushing their “celibacy” agenda these days.

    *Edited from “about sex” to “about others’ sex lives” for clarity.

  • http://johnshore.com/ John Shore

    I’d bet my right nut that you don’t think about sex any less often than does anyone else, Christian or otherwise. It’s a human thing, not a religion thing. (And do rethink your proud claim that “the main goal of religion is to control people.” 95% of people in the world say that they believe in a God. Do you honestly believe that they’re all so mindless that they simply don’t fathom that they’re being “controlled”? And that you’re gifted with critical thinking skills that they all lack? Maybe people actually like being religious.)

  • Lookingup73

    I never said I did not think about sex. (I thought it was obvious I was talking about people thinking about sex of others…but if not, then no I think about sex just as much as anyone else. I just don’t think about other people’s sex life).

    I also never made a proud claim. I never actually said anything about people believing in God. I criticized religion. If you don’t realize that religion (man-created, nothing to do with God and spirituality, unless of course you think man created God – for which an argument can be made of course – but i didn’t make it) does control people…oh well, not sure what I can say lol.

    But you are certainly taking many liberties with my comment – I never said I was “gifted with critical thinking skills” others lacked… YOU wrote an article criticizing religious people who are too concerned about the sex lives of others. I wrote a comment agreeing with you. Not sure what happened there…but I certainly did not make any of the other claims you say i did!!!

  • http://johnshore.com/ John Shore

    Okay. No worries.

  • Lookingup73

    No problem. I was wondering though where the 95% figure comes from? Even the most pro-religious stats only show a maximum of 85%. I was just curious.

  • tonycutty

    “The source of the problem is that they associate sex (a completely
    natural function) with some sort of relationship with God. (Is there
    anything creepier than someone talking about sex and God? Not really).”

    Sadly, I once heard someone say in a sermon that he spoke in tongues while having sex. That grossed out a lot of people, I can tell you 😉

  • Lookingup73

    I have seen sex reduce folks to gibberish; he might have mistaken it for speaking in tongues (that is all it is after all)!

  • Immortal Illumined

    what kind of god denies LOVE? a weak, evil, feeble one……

  • http://allegro63.wordpress.com/ allegro63

    I shared this in a private facebook group. The first comment I got, from one of our resident homophobic, end times hoping, conservative christians was…
    “Folks wont be happy till my 14 year old is taught anal intercourse positions in high school.”
    That’s actually one of his milder comments on the subject. I replied “thanks for proving the point of the topic.”

  • http://johnshore.com/ John Shore

    (What a crazy/horrible/frightening response from that dad. Yikes, man.)

  • Ruthitchka

    Yeah. Must. Bleach. Eyes!

  • Anna Hayward

    Pretty sure they figure that out for themselves, if they’re of a mind to.

  • Chris Dagostino

    That’s why, even as a Conservative Christian myself, I don’t support abstinence-only Sex Ed. “The Blue Lagoon” was right – kids will figure it out eventually.

    And John, I wanna commend you for providing a platform for those of us whose sexualities have been damaged by misinterpretations of the Bible. To provide healing for stripes that are as deep and pervasive as ours is a great thing.

  • Andy

    “kids will figure it out eventually”

    And worse, some of them will be pissed they were missing out, and will overcompensate by being irresponsible.

  • Wonder

    They’ll figure out the mechanics, sure. The rest of it, not necessarily.

  • Chris Dagostino

    I can partially sympathize. I’m not necessarily bitter about missing out, but as a 35-year-old V, I often think to myself: I’ve come this far in life, so why start now?

  • Don Lowery

    As a teacher’s aide who is in classes with these 14 year olds…I’ve must have been sleeping or not paying attention…since learning about these positions mean there’s information I don’t know about.

  • Boyd

    Well, I suspect he is right and I also suspect most here don’t have a problem with that. But in any case he’s too late. Again, who is it exactly that’s obsessed with LGBT sex?

    http://www.thefamilyleader.com/governors-conference-on-lgbtq-youth-not-what-you-think/

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    Oh. You seem to have mistaken us for a pedophile blog. You’re in the wrong place.

    I don’t see what’s so horrifying about the things that article mentions:

    “It’s a conference teaching kids how to: how to be confidently homosexual”

    Like how the world teaches kids how to be confidently heterosexual?

    “how to pleasure their gay partners”

    Given that the reporter didn’t mention sexually, I’m assuming it didn’t include such or he would have been extremely delighted to point that out; but even if it did, again, the world teaches kids to pleasure their straight partners and nobody’s being outraged about it.

    “one session even taught transsexual girls how to sew fake testicles into their underwear in order to pass themselves off as boys.”

    Er, the whole point of being a transsexual girl is that one doesn’t want to be seen as a boy. But assuming that they referred to transsexual boys, that firstly sounds like a laundry nightmare, and secondly… srsly, that kind of thing is only for personal relief of body dysphoria, because nobody stares at your underwear to figure out whether or not you have testicles before they decide what gender you are. If they do, then they’re the pervert.

    “They repeatedly affirmed that it’s OK to be gay.”

    The horror.

    “One speaker wore a dress made of condoms, so they could be easily detached and “used as needed.”

    Eh, I personally find that distasteful, as the later-mentioned song by Peru, but there are straight people who pull stunts like that too.

    “Another told a rousing story of how he used social media to find friends and accidentally stumbled into an orgy.”

    Not sure what the issue here is; I’d see their point more clearly if it were about how he used social media to find an orgy and accidentally stumbled into his friends.

    “One session taught how to properly use “binders” to reduce the visibility of a girl’s breasts and discussed hormone treatments for delaying puberty, assuring kids the drugs were safe.”

    All of which is useful and potentially life-saving for trans kids. Trans boys who bind on their own often end up doing it improperly, leading to broken ribs, crushed lungs, back problems and other bad things. So it’s good that they were corrected, As for the puberty-delaying drugs, they aren’t hormonal, and they *are* safe – those drugs have been used for decades to halt precocious puberty, have been certified safe, and can be stopped at any point with no side effects.

    “When she got there, it wasn’t really on bullying; it was basically a sexual education class for same-sex couples”

    Which is just as necessary as sex ed for straight couples. If you’re not against that (unless you are), then you presumably understand that high school kids *should* be given sexual education for safety, health and other reasons. Why should that be denied to LGBT kids? And if you’re also against sex ed for non-LGBT kids, then why aren’t you also complaining on those places? (unless you are, in which case I apologise).

    “My daughter went to listen to the comedian, Sam Killermann, thinking it would at least be funny,”

    Oh, him. I don’t like that guy; he’s kind of hypocritical about trans stuff. Some sympathy here.

    “presentations where they’re encouraged to slash tires and use their cell phones to find orgies,”

    I don’t agree with the slashing tires thing, but didn’t that guy talk about how finding the orgy was an *accident*, not an intention?

  • Boyd

    I was going to say you never responded to my question of, “Again, who is it exactly that’s obsessed with LGBT sex?”. But a six hundred word comment? Answer – you’re obsessed with LGBT sex.

  • Jeff Preuss

    At what point in Anakin’s response to you did he indicate he is obsessed with sex? He responded to several points in the link you provided, and even essentially agreed with some of the concerns raised.

    If you took all of Anakin’s words in response to your provided link, and somehow made that into an obsession with LGBT sex…he’s not the one who’s obsessed with it.

    On a larger level, who is obsessed with LGBT sex? Your link seems to show the fine folks at the Family Leader are, especially Bob Vander Plaats. Reading other people’s accounts of the conference (except for the multiple reports that all refer back to the Family Leader page) make it clearer the conference just wasn’t as orgiastic as Family Leader makes it out to be.

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/were-we-at-the-same-conference-bob#/story

  • Boyd

    Look, I’ve argued this stuff since I used to go at it with Liberal PCUSA pastors on ecunet back in the mid ’90’s. The tactics never seem to change. Pose a simple argument. In this case how is it Christians are the ones who are obsessed when LGBT relentlessly presses their case in a manner clearly designed to get a rise out of them. That argument gets met with a TL;DR manifesto designed to obfuscate the original question. Claim any attempt to answer shows just how obsessed you are. Repeat as necessary.

    As the article showed, as my examples of the parades and media reports show, it is LGBT who is obsessed with sexualizing our youth and our culture. Am I obsessed with putting a stop to that? You bet I am.

  • Jeff Preuss

    No one is attempting to obfuscate your original question. You posed a question, thinking the answer at which you’d already arrived was the only one, especially since you thought your highly-biased anti-gay linked hyperbolic article reinforced your answer, when in reality it further proves that gay opponents are precisely as focused on our sex lives as John’s original post states. And then when your question was answered, you didn’t like the answer, so you pretend the question was being avoided.

    Then you go off on some nonsense that anakin is focused on LGBT sex because he had a lengthy response to the link you provided. That doesn’t even make a lick of logical sense.

    Your comment was over 100 words – clearly you are obsessed with gay sex.

    (Also? Complaining that LGBT presses their case in a manner to get a rise out of Christians? That’s some supremely rich irony.) In all honesty, you’re just being a jerk, and a somewhat dim one.

    Bye, Felicia.

  • Boyd

    I’ve got the perfect compromise. You guys quit coming into the public schools with your anal sex instruction and we’ll quit coming in with our Bible studies.

  • Jeff Preuss

    More hyperbole from you. Not surprising.

  • Boyd

    The larger point of that comment likely does not escape anyone but you. Really, I doubt if it escapes you either you just don’t have an answer to it.

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    But what if we *want* the Bible studies, given that some of us are Christians? I guess there’s only one way, then…

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    idk, homosexuality is illegal in my country but our youth still manage to get sexualised more than sufficiently by the straight folks. Most of them think I’m a prude.

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    …A six hundred word comment that was mostly words from the article you posted. Out of my actual words, only one paragraph had to do with LGBT sex in any way – and that was regarding sexual education. Unless you live in some perverted world where sex ed = sex, I’m not seeing your point.

    If you think otherwise, please do copy and paste the parts of my post where I said anything about LGBT sex.

  • John Smith

    Have you been in a Gay parade?

    Do you agree with children being in the parade?

    Do you want this gay parades in Disney channel?

  • http://johnshore.com/ John Shore

    Annnnnnnd a sound argument against the legalization of weed.

  • http://allegro63.wordpress.com/ allegro63

    Ohoh. He’s my fault, being another of our more “interesting” fundies at the private group I shared your piece with. Expect his comment to degrade from here on out.

  • http://johnshore.com/ John Shore

    It’s gonna get worse??? Yikes. Lemme just ban him now. K. Done.

  • Sue Campbell

    I have John Smith. One of the biggest (though not the biggest) pride parades in the country. There are churches, politicians and political groups, motorcycles, firetrucks, sports teams, and yes bars that participate. Its at 10 AM on a sunday morning. Of course children can be in it. What do you think they are doing with over 10,000 people watching on public streets in broad daylight?

  • Lookingup73

    Did you read the article? Your questions suggest not!

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    Yeah, I marched in NYC’s 2013 Pride Parade with my church. We spent about 3 hours stbading around in the holding area, then 2 hours marching. I agree children probably shouldn’t have been there, because if as an adult I was restless and kind of bored with all the waiting about, I can’t imagine how much worse it would be for a child.

  • cajaquarius

    Yes, yes, and I wouldn’t mind, though they can run what they want. I don’t pay their bills so if they can show what they like, I suppose.

  • Anna Hayward

    With apologies for Foucault, the reason they are opposed to gay sex is because it breaks their primary means of control. This is, controlling women, via their children, in order to control their husbands. For this to work, women have to be powerless (they don’t like women being educated or having careers, using birth control or having abortions); powerless women are dependent on their husbands, for the sake of their children and easier to manipulate by the church. Men are controlled indirectly via their wives. If they want sex, they have to have a wife who is part of the church (marrying out is discouraged), and if they don’t want children, tough.Therefore, homosexuality means that men are outside the control of the church. It’s all about power.

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    But how would that then translate to advocating celibacy for gay people?

  • Don Lowery

    Having been a straight celibate man for the past 11 years…does that mean being able to spell “celibate” spells trouble for those of us who are straight and have nothing better to do?

  • lymis

    While I don’t necessarily buy into the logic of her post (at least not as a complete explanation), advocating celibacy for gay people fits in just fine – “no sex for you unless you buy into this model where we control you.” There’s nothing inconsistent with that and Anna’s premise.

  • Boyd

    “Why the hell are conservative Christians so obsessed with sex?”

    Not sure why the author jumps to LGBT sex but here is one answer. I live in a town of 40,000. Our local daily lists the 10 latest article topics in a sidebar. Last week 5 of 10 had something to do with gay issues, sexual or otherwise. During the SC gay marriage decision it was all 10 of 10 on one day. On an issue that once decided will never likely effect more than 1% of the population. This is hardly exceptional in our culture today. Somebody’s obsessed all right. But it’s not Christians.

  • cajaquarius

    In this case I think “obsessed with sex” means preoccupied with LGBT sex to such an extent that they actively try to tie LGBT people to social ills and stand in the way of any law that grants us protections. Less just a general societal interest.

  • Boyd

    I said nothing about tying anybody to anything. It means what it says – in spite of the fact that the population involved is of a fly speck size the media (in this case), academia and political activists force feed a relentless portion of everything LGBT all the time. Any objection to that scenario, such as the article I posted below, is met with more of the same – “why are you so obsessed!” nonsense. We aren’t. But clearly someone is. 600 word essays like below that never address this very narrow point even though it was directly asked prove this to be so.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Again, anakin replying to the points brought up in the link which you provided doesn’t show anakin is obsessed.

    You provided the link, anakin responded to it. You can keep arguing all you want that makes anakin obsessed, but you’re only convincing yourself.

    The more you come into discussion threads like this and protest that you are not obsessed, the more it shows the rest of us you are.

  • Boyd

    Respond – “you’re obsessed!”
    Don’t respond – “guilty as charged!”

    OK, I get it.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Whatever, dude. Keep digging your hole.

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    Random off-topic comment – my name can be capitalised! I’d set my username ages ago and didn’t bother to change it.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Ha! I just have this brain filter or so when I type set to refer to screen names more than anything, so when I capitalize it, it just looks WRONG to me, since I only ever read your name uncapitalized. 😛

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    Yeah, I have the same problem. Just changed it. 😀

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    Many of those 600 words were not my own words. And you were evidently obsessed enough to do a word count.

  • cajaquarius

    [ Any objection to that scenario, such as the article I posted below, is
    met with more of the same – “why are you so obsessed!” nonsense.]

    Because you aren’t objecting to a scenario, your are objecting to us. You are objecting to people. And that means we take it personally. Our loved ones take it personally.

    If the government spoke of removing tax exempt status from churches and a number of Christian and Muslim bloggers began to write 600 word posts about this, it would not be obsession, it would be a rational response to a clear and present danger.

    An objection to homosexuality is a clear and present danger to us.

  • Boyd

    The scenario as stated: “… academia and political activists force feed a relentless portion of everything LGBT all the time”
    The strawman you argue against: ” your are objecting to us. You are objecting to people.”

    Yes, I am objecting to you but not in the hateful way you want to characterize it. This argument of mine just illustrates the symptom. I am objecting to the activities of the people who are determined to change our culture in ways I don’t agree with. I understand you don’t think I should be allowed to do that. So ultimately what I am objecting to is the anti-liberal tactics you clearly state; that the voicing of objection isn’t just dangerous (it is, I mean it to be) but more importantly it is an action to be suppressed. There’s the problem.

    The difference between me and the forces I detail at work in our society today is that while I would resist removal of something like changing tax status, it would never even occur to me to demand they be banned from even making the suggestion. You are right, I am a danger to you since “you” represents the oppressive and dangerous ideology of Progressivism that is going to eventually destroy the very system that protects us all. Compromise simply isn’t in the vocabulary of Progressivism. There is only one perfect world and anyone opposing its version of it must be rooted out and muzzled. It’s a dangerous game you people are playing. The pendulum always swings back after swinging forth. The liberty destroying tactics you are supporting will someday be turned back on you.

  • cajaquarius

    [Yes, I am objecting to you but not in the hateful way you want to characterize it.]

    If I tell a racist joke at a party and someone gets offended, I can explain that I didn’t mean it in a hateful way, but they may still take it that way because I don’t get to control how they take it. That is the nature of human interaction.

    [that the voicing of objection isn’t just dangerous (it is, I mean it to be) but more importantly it is an action to be suppressed. There’s the problem.]

    Speaking of strawmen, where did I “clearly express” that I wanted to suppress you? Calling you hateful and insulting you isn’t suppression. And if you are going to hurl invective at me and my brethren, I would suggest you lace up the big boy pants and get used to getting it hurled back.

    [(The last paragraph)]

    Nice projection there, champ. I don’t recall ever standing against your right to get married, get healthcare coverage, and so on. Your side had all the power up till now. Your inability to differentiate between a loss of privilege and a loss of liberty is your own issue.

    After all, progressives like me allow the Stormfront website to stand today, to spread it’s white supremacist propaganda. Your dreams of being a noble rebel are just that: dreams.

  • Bob Black

    They seem to be offended that gay people (gay MEN in particular) are having more fun than them. Who was it that said “Fundamentalism is the fear that someone, somewhere is having fun.”?

  • tonycutty

    It’s a paraphrase of one H. L. Mencken, who reportedly said that “Puritanism is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.’ Love it.

  • Boyd

    Gay Pride Parades are a big hit this year. Hey I’m always up for a parade, I mean who isn’t? But from what I can tell these aren’t just locals putting the Girl Scout Troop on dad’s flatbed and waving to the crowds parades. It’s gay muscle guy strippers, barely clothed transvestites and generally speaking a steady stream of “adult” entertainment flaunting it to the max for really one sole purpose – to generate as much shock and awe among those “Obsessed Christians” as possible as an excuse to pick a fight. The civil rights issue of our times right? I’m trying to picture MLK in drag. Who the hell do you people think your fooling here?

  • Matt

    It’s too early in the morning for this level of vitriol, Boyd. Might I suggest the decaf variety?

  • Boyd

    Ya, I guess I’m obsessed right?

  • Giauz Ragnarock

    What’s wrong with any of that? Also, the shock and awe is clearly entirely on the part of the anti-LGBT+ people Christians.

  • Boyd

    There is no clarity on your second point but your first is very bottom line. You don’t care what I think about this. Well god bless America we both have found the perfect place to live because you don’t have too care what I think and I don’t have to go to your parade. But understand that some here are not OK with that arrangement. They just can’t get to sleep at night knowing that somewhere somebody is not being forced to accept flatbeds of gay strippers coming down main street.

    Look, I’m as Federalist as it comes. You want gay parades in your town by all means have them. But I expect the same respect. Unfortunately, that’s not how things are going. I have to have them in my town too or face the inevitable lawfare that comes to any with the nerve to think this should be a free country. The active party here is LGBT. We are not the one’s making demands. There really is no law against anything LGBT any longer. Give it rest. Quit being such sore winners.

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    > There really is no law against anything LGBT any longer.

    I’m not American, but I know that even over there it is possible for gay people to get fired in a bunch of states just for being gay, and for trans people to get fired in even more states just for being trans; as well as to be denied housing and other things. Meanwhile, at least nine trans women were brutally murdered in the first few months of this year (and I think more since). Roughly two hundred such cases are reported every year globally, with likely more unreported. In many cases, their murderers get off free, citing a ‘trans panic’ defense – even though cases where they actually skinned their victims alive (two of them), or set her on fire, snuffed it out, and set her on fire again repeatedly until they got bored with the screaming, or chopped her to pieces and boiled her in a pot (over in Australia) etc really don’t seem to me like a spur of the moment panic thing. I’m actually thankful for the ones who were just shot and died quickly.

  • Boyd

    Yes I am aware of the argument. Relief from sanctions is not good enough. Pro-active promotion is required. No it’s not. In any case your segway to the horrors of what society perpetrates on gays is revealing. And thoroughly bogus.

    35 people a year die by having vending machines fall on them. You’re not likely to ever see people marching by the millions over vending machine stability. I’m not trying to demean these or any other deaths but just point out that scale matters. Yet we are told that crimes even at the “two of them” level should require entire societies be held culpable, “re-educated and kneel in repentance or kneel for the figurative bullet. The “if even one” formulation is not only unworkable it is little more than an open door to tyranny. Don’t expect people to miss the implications of what you are about here any longer.

  • Snooterpoot

    So, because so few are being tortured and subjected to unspeakable suffering then it’s okay, Boyd? Really?

    If societies condone such barbaric acts then, yes, they need to be held accountable.

    You seem to value life and civilized behavior very little.

  • Boyd

    You mistake recognition for support. Or perhaps it’s more accurate to say you twist and strawman instead of address the actual point I made.

    In any case if you ever get a chance read Thomas Sowell’s, “A Conflict of Visions”. It masterfully explains the two opposing ideologies of our times and how it is that I can write a long paragraph on the physical impossibility of the “if even one has to suffer” construct and yet you respond with the very same “if even one has to die” argument as If I’d never even addressed the idea.

    Know that while Sowell is a Conservative the book is not a polemic. As opposed to all polemics on Amazon where the sides marshal their forces to kill readership, both side have huge respect for his very insightful effort. His dissection of the history and status of why it is, “the same people end up on the same side of the table on all divisive issues?” is mandatory if you want to intelligently discuss these issues.

  • Snooterpoot

    You ended your comment with a really weak ad hominem attack there, Boyd. How sad.

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    That’s a false analogy: for starters, there aren’t thousands of people insisting that everyone who uses a vending machine deserves to be crushed by one; secondly, launching mass campaigns protesting it would help no one, since the vast majority of people have zero say in vending machine stability. They’d be far more effective talking to the people who build vending machines. Whereas it’s the masses who are often responsible for making LGBT people miserable. Thirdly, there’s a vast difference between accidents and crimes. The former often can’t be helped. The latter can, because they require people to make an intentional decision to hurt someone else. As far as we know, vending machines are not currently sentient.

    Aside from how any horrendous action against another person or group of people is worthy of speaking out against, I referred to an average of two hundred – not two – trans women tortured and murdered every year. I gave examples of what a few of those two hundred go through, which are unfortunately representative, but it was by no means an exhaustive listing, and at any rate at least counters your impression that things are pretty okay for LGBT people right now.

    Also, what *is* it that you think I’m here about? I honestly don’t know what you mean. All I want is the ability to live a quiet, peaceful life, preferably near a river, and hopefully find a nice Christian guy to marry one day.

  • Boyd

    I don’t know what you’re arguing but the vending machine example is arguing against the bogus and completely unworkable “if even one has to suffer” Precautionary Principal. As to the 200, this is why nothing you people claim is to be believed. That’s 200 worldwide and of the 10 in the USA none have been proven to be anything other than *possible* hate crimes. As to the possibility of two? Back to the bogusness of the Precautionary Principal. Short of turning our Country into the police state you seem to desire there is no way to stop all crime. None of this argues anything about the propriety of LGBT. All of it argues against your Fascist tactics.

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    As said before, I’m not American.

    Another trans woman was just murdered, making it two this week. The latest victim was the friend of a friend, and trust me that I’d *love *to pretend that this is just people making up stuff, because I have trans friends in the US whose lives I fear for.

    If these are just ‘possible’ hate crimes, it’s some massive coincidence that the victims are disproportionately young black transgender women. If they were just coincidences or something that the LGBT community is fabricating, as you seem to believe, why focus on them? Why not claim that all these hate crimes are instead against, say, non-trans white gay men or lesbians? Or even non-trans black LGB people? Both would certainly garner a lot more sympathy and outrage if that was indeed the goal.

    Here’s the compiled stats of reported murders of trans women. Many (especially the later ones with more details) were clearly hate-motivated as the result of their trans status:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10_JeZ7LEIRhvewTCoL5mVkH6MQJzf7fSXl4-P6QJ0v0/edit#gid=0

    And what exactly about “hey, let’s educate society to understand more about LGBT people so maybe they’ll stop randomly murdering us or making our lives miserable” is fascist?

  • Boyd

    [comment deleted]

  • Snooterpoot

    Of course you are making demands. You are demanding that people like me sit down, shut up and go back in the closet.

    Unfortunately for you, Boyd, that door is opened for good, and we will not hide.

    It is you who wishes to suppress freedom, not us. You will never be forced to go to a gay pride parade. You don’t even know what it’s about, Boyd. You have your preconceived notions but you really don’t know what gay pride and our celebration of it is about.

    What respect do you expect for simply acknowledging equal access rights, Boyd?

    I truly pity you and people like you. I think you’d probably be much happier if you just didn’t think about us at all.

  • Boyd

    [comment deleted]

  • Snooterpoot

    Of course it will stand the test of time, because it’s the right thing to do. You and your ilk are quickly becoming a minority, Boyd, because people have come to know us as their friends, family members, colleagues, police officers, teachers, doctors, etc., and they have discovered that we are just regular people, going about our lives.

    Sure, there will be people who remain angry and bitter because our marriages and our families are legally equivalent to theirs, but they will soon be looked upon with scorn and disbelief, just as people who opposed interracial marriage are looked upon now.

    Maybe if you took the time to get to know some of us you wouldn’t be so afraid. But, perhaps, maybe not. I grew up in the south during the 1950s and ’60s. I know people who, even now, hold on to their bigotry. Some people need to feel superior to someone, anyone, in order to feel good about themselves.

    I know a loving, merciful, compassionate god that loves unconditionally. I wish everyone did. The world would be a better place for that, and people like you wouldn’t be so afraid and angry.

  • Curtis Martin

    Not sure where you live, but in Seattle, Pride has become incredibly safe and corporate. Sure, we have the body painted cyclists and a couple of trucks carrying the regulars from the one of the local gay bars dancing to “It’s Raining Men”. But mostly, it’s just the gay employees of company X in colorful polo shirts. I will say, that the crossfit float had a rather attractive woman doing pull ups while topless while the local Episcopalian contingent marched right behind. But no one seemed to mind.
    Pride is the second biggest parade in Seattle and is pretty passé at this point. Heck, the Space Needle flies a giant Rainbow Flag (as do many businesses and churches), and no one really cares. There is still the one guy with the “God hates (all y’all)” sign, but he is so woefully out of place here – especially when two blocks down, the United Methodists are all rainbowed up for the day and have a band playing outside to welcome the parade as it passes by.
    Pride used to be a march – an angry, pay attention to us and stop treating us like crap march. At least in Seattle – a town where the mayor is gay and his husband was part of the campaign commercials – it’s a Hurray for Us parade and it’s turning into such a corporate – shop with us, work with us – event that I wonder how long it can continue.
    Now, I do have to remind my self that for every jaded ally like myself who feels like seeing 75 Macy’s employees march in red polo shirts is not really what the folks at Stonewall were going for…… there’s a young 19 year old from Small Town Wyoming that never could tell his parents or church or even his best friend that he was gay who is attending his first Pride ever. That kid has likely never been in a place where he was openly welcomed, let alone made to feel like he was worthy of a parade.
    The best thing that happened parade wise in Seattle this year had to be the guy who organized the Straight Pride Parade. The parade was supposed to be right down the heart of the gay neighborhood. 1 guy showed up. Yup, just one – the organizer. What made this so rich was that this was the same day that Seattle hold’s it’s biggest parade of the year – the Seafair Torchlight Parade. So, while Cheerleaders and Sports stars, Soldiers and Stewardesses marched down the street in all their stereotypical glory, one lonely guy was up in the gay part of town looking for all the straight people. If only he had seen the Firemen and the Military Honor Guard and the SeaGals and Miss Peach Blossom then he could have seen what it looks like when straight folks have a parade. As long as the “regular” parade still has princesses and powerboats, I guess there’s still a need for Pride.

  • Boyd

    Thank you. That’s a fair take on how things should go. I mean it’s Seattle. I’d expect nothing less than complete openness to all things gay. Interestingly, in my non-Seattle it went just the same, just for different reasons. The big surprise for the parade organizer was the crowds of hating protesters he insisted were going to show up never materialized. None. Not one. And yes, he was very disappointed by that.

    Your not likely to get people in this Conservative town to accept anything much about LGBT but that comes combined with very live and let live attitudes. Just don’t show up with gay lifestyle promotion thinly disguised as anti-bullying programs and think we are not going to get confronted. People want that they can move to Seattle. As I said below – Federalism. Nobody is going to hassle you here. Just don’t demand we accept your views. I wouldn’t consider walking down the streets of Seattle packing a weapon like I have here. I know how they feel (my daughter actually lives in Seattle) and I see no reason to antagonize them. I expect the same.

  • http://www.whoaisnotme.net/anakinmcfly Anakin McFly

    Straight lifestyle promotion is everywhere, and no one even bothers disguising it as anything. I can sympathise with not wanting to be confronted with sexual things, because I don’t like it either, but at least be consistent and don’t have double standards.

  • Curtis Martin

    As long as you don’t think it’s ok to bully the teenagers who are just starting to understand that their sexuality isn’t along the normal lines, then there’s no need to send in the anti-bullying team. I’m not sure where you live, but I’ll bet there’ a lot of more or less conservative gay folks living there with you. The “shock and awe” parades that you’ve seen (well, seen the shock and awe clips from) are mostly from the days of the closet. Folks who spend all or much of their lives pretending to be one thing, tend to overdo it when they get the chance to not hide anymore. Like I said, not much salaciousness in our pride parades anymore, unless you count the Lutherans and the Methodist ladies marching with their signs as salacious.

  • Jeff Preuss

    Yes, much like St. Patrick’s Day Parades (or Carnivale, etc.), our Gay Pride Parades tend to bring out the loudest and sometimes scandalous bits of our culture. Parades are attention-grabbing spectacles and always have been, but those who think that Gay Pride Parades are the only representation of who we LGBT are just aren’t even trying to understand.

    Personally, I’ve only been to a Pride Parade/Fest once, and I was bored.

  • Boyd

    Why would anyone think it’s Ok to bully anyone? Even people who do it know it’s not OK. The bullying stuff has now become mostly the land of the censorious who deem anything and anyone they disagree with as a bully. The guy organizing that parade I spoke of insists gays live in a state of terror at all times here and need a safe house it’s so bad. This in a town without a single recorded instance of a hate crime or suicide attributed to bullying in its entire 150 year history. What little bullying there is is now difficult to stop since people are so suspicious, and rightfully so, of those making the claim.

  • tonycutty

    Sounds like a good show. It’s interesting how people can take offence at a crowd of gay blokes on the back of a truck, though. Who’s it going to bother, when you think about it? Straight women being tempted? No, ‘cuz they know full well those boys are gay and therefore off limits. Lesbian women being tempted? No, because they don’t fancy men. Straight men? Well, you can see naked men down the gym anytime you like. Gay men? No, they’re all in the parade, in fact maybe they’re the ones on the truck. So, who is being tempted’ by these naked men? Who is being ‘titivated’ by them? Nobody, actually. It’s only the tut-tutters in the Church who don’t really have a logical take on any of this stuff; they’re the ones who are bothered – and for no real reason. If you’re in a Church which is made up of these people, best leave – for the sake of your own logical purity 😉

  • Snooterpoot

    Two words, Boyd. Mardi Gras.

  • Michael Cudney

    What they don’t understand is that all this anti-sex stuff is not really from God, but originates from the writings of Augustine of Hippo. If Christianity never had Augustine we’d be a much better religion.

  • Chris Schene

    The scriptures are very clear on sexual morality and in terms of penalty, sexual immorality was punished very harshly in the OT: right up there with the penalty for murder.

    Within the church itself we do have the right and the obligation to know what our leaders are doing. We had a few worship leaders who were committing adultery and when they were asked to step down from leadership, they refused and they were expelled from the church and it was announced before the congregation why they were expelled.

    We had a pastor who committed adultery and although he was repentant (so he said) he would still not step down from his pastoral role and the church itself would not remove him. The church itself was expelled from the Vineyard.

    A pastor recently (2/2014) came out as allowing practicing homosexuals into leadership positions and said he would perform same-sex marriage. The church organization counseled him and discussed the issue for quite a while and he was asked to sign a statement repudiating his statements he had published in a book and when he refused he was defrocked and expelled from the church.

    The same would happen if someone were an unrepentant thief, a murderer but it is just that we usually don’t find out about such until they are exposed legally. Sexual sin seems to be more of a problem. We would also discipline a person for having or even suggesting an abortion or “hooking up” between singles.

    No, we are not obsessed with sex but we do believe we are supposed to obey the clear direction of scripture on the issue: The only legitimate sexual relationship is between a man and a woman married to each other

  • Chris Schene

    When I gave my life to Jesus I agreed to live by His rules and give up my rights to make my own or even adopt those of the culture around me if they conflicted with scripture.

    Why oh why does the LGBT propaganda machine keep on character assassinating us saying we hate gays, or that we are ignorant of scripture, or that we never sin (of course we do) or that we are mentally Ill with an obsession over sex or are homophobic.

    The simple reality is that we believe the Bible is very clear that homosexuality and transgenderism is wrong Biblically.

    I have heard all the LGBT responses to this so I’ll answer ahead of time:

    1) Yes Jesus did address Homosexuality because it is covered under the umbrella term fornication which covers all sexual sin.
    2) No, I am not bound by the legal statues of the Mosaic law so it does not matter if I eat shell fish or wear two types of fabrics.
    3) Homosexuality was addressed as in in ALL contexts along with any sex outside man-woman marriage.
    4) There is no such thing as a “committed same-sex sexual relationship” in scripture.
    5) The so called “clobber passages” are not specifically referring to abusive paractices

  • madethatway

    Hey, John, well said and well done.

    As far as I’m concerned, Love is Love. I’d rather rejoice that two people no longer feel lost and alone in life, than hound, persecute, ridicule, shame them and make their lives a living hell.

    I’m not religious, but even I know Jesus wouldn’t have treated the LBGT community the way his followers are.

    Anyway, what about all those bisexual and homosexual animals in nature?

    What about the 31% of Laysan Albatross who mate for life with a same sex partner? Are they nasty, disgusting, sinners, too – or are they the way they were created/evolved to be?

  • TaschTasch

    The only sermon I ever attended that addressed the issue of homosexuality was way back in the early 1990s and the pastor’s message was simply this: HIV/AIDS is not God’s punishment for illicit sex; God loves us and does not punish us with terrible afflictions for our sins.

    Politicians and religious leaders don’t froth in public about LGBT people in my country – they rather talk about our country’s economic challenges and how the government can better help the poor and unemployed. Same sex-marriages have been legal for more than a decade here and is rarely worth public mention.