Refreshing


  • Jose

    I saw this earlier. Reminds me of Justice Ginsburg’s comment that legalized abortion was supposed to be about eliminating unwanted increased population, rather than choice. Fortunately for Justice Ginsburg and those like her, but not everyone else, they still are consuming the planet’s precious resources without any concern for the general population.

  • Bob

    There was a great scene in the movie Mother and Child, which proceeded along somewhat similar lines.

  • MClark

    That’s the comic 9 Chickweed Lane, for those of us not familiar with current comic strips.

    -5 pts for failing to cite your source, Mr. Shea.

  • ds

    Lovely pro-choice strawwoman there.

    • Andy, Bad Person

      Show me a pro-choicer ever protesting publicly to keep a baby alive.

      • ds

        Uh, well Bad Andy the idea is women should have the choice. So you probably woundn’t see any pro-choicers arguing against either decision.

        • Ted Seeber

          I see plenty of pro-choicers doing so. And precious few giving to the other option.

        • Hezekiah Garrett

          You really aren’t describing any of the dedicated pro-choicers Ive encountered. I’ve been called a power-hungry mysoginist for the following…

          “I don’t give a damn what your laws say about the subject, I just want to work toward a world where no woman, no matter the situation, would feel that mutilating and killing her unborn child was even under consideration. That’s going to mean reworking your entire economy.”

          Reckon why that is, if what you say is true? Then again I’ve never met a practicing catholic who’d identify as such a thing. Maybe you meet all your pro choicers at your parish?

    • AfroDoc

      I wish this was a “strawoman,” but I would say “archtype” is more accurate. I’ve seen this exact sentiment echoed by “pro-choice” bloggers who roundly criticize the decisions of friends who make the “wrong” choice when they act to care and nurture for their developing children in spite of various complications / social pressures.

      • ds

        I’ve never heard that sentiment. I don’t know any pro-choice women who are upset when someone chooses not to abort, they just don’t like the idea that they would be prevented from doing so by law. But I understand it’s probably a lot harder to hate them so much if you don’t tell yourselves that “they want to kill babies.”

        • mike the analyst

          ds –
          Just research what a lot of pro-choice men and women said about Sarah Palin “choosing” to have Trig.

          • ds

            Would you provide a link?

            • ivan_the_mad

              Spend three minutes with Google? Challenge accepted.

              You can see some of a very controversial post from Wonkette here (Wonkette pulled the original): http://legalinsurrection.com/2011/04/wonkette-goes-after-trig-palin-again-again/

              Or this nice article of an interview with rich pro-choicer and pornographer Larry Flynt (notice that he refers to Trig as “it”, not “he”): http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/larry-flynt-freedom-fighter-pornographer-monster-2289592.html

              “Sarah Palin is the dumbest thing … She did a disservice to every woman in America. She knew from the first month of pregnancy that kid was going to be Down’s Syndrome. It’s brain dead. A virtual vegetable. She carries it to all these different political events against abortion, she did it just because she didn’t want to say she’d had an abortion. How long is it going to live? Another 12, 15 years? Doesn’t even know it’s in this world. So what kind of compassionate conservative is she?”

              Or you can read up on Trig Trutherism: http://www.salon.com/2011/04/26/sarah_palin_trig_sullivan/

              That’s three links, if you’re counting. Now you’ve seen the sentiment expressed. Have a nice day.

            • ivan_the_mad

              Spend three minutes with Google? Challenge accepted.

              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/22/palin-trig-trutherism_n_852585.html

              http://legalinsurrection.com/2011/04/wonkette-goes-after-trig-palin-again-again/

              http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/larry-flynt-freedom-fighter-pornographer-monster-2289592.html

              From the last, an interview with rich pro-choicer and pornographer Larry Flynt:
              Sarah Palin is the dumbest thing … She did a disservice to every woman in America. She knew from the first month of pregnancy that kid was going to be Down’s Syndrome. It’s brain dead. A virtual vegetable. She carries it to all these different political events against abortion, she did it just because she didn’t want to say she’d had an abortion. How long is it going to live? Another 12, 15 years? Doesn’t even know it’s in this world. So what kind of compassionate conservative is she?”

              That’s three links, two more than you asked for.

            • Hezekiah Garrett

              Would you rather be tutored in the art of Google-Fu?

              Or instead of a link, could I provide you more sand for your cranial encapsulation?

              • ds

                I googled trig palin abortion and didn’t find anything in the first page saying she should have had an abortion. I don’t have all afternoon so research other’s assertions they are too lazy to provide a link to.

                • Mark Shea

                  Get yer white hot Trig (and Downie) hate here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2012/05/george-will-never-got-the-memo.html It wasn’t even hard to find the links–a lot of links.

                  • ds

                    Three of those many sites actually say he should’ve been aborted. One is an anonymous facebook page. One is Larry Flint, who I think we can agree is a scumbag. Another was a Libertarian group.

                    A lot of the other sites make crude humor about Trig and Sarah Palin, but none of them say he should have been aborted.

                    One of the links you posted is actually making the argument that it’s wrong for Trig to be a political football for the right, and that this is a separate point from saying he should have been aborted or should be reviled in any way.

        • http://confederatepapist.blogspot.com/ Confederate Papist

          But that’s because they are killing babies. To you, an unplanned pregnancy is a burden, to us it’s a brother (my youngest), nephew (my oldest), aunt (who almost killed my grandmother during pregnancy and childbirth and now my 65 year old aunt is caring for my 94 year old grandmother), and on, and on.
          We choose life. The choice of death makes no attempts to consider the feelings of the child in the womb. Not very humane.

          • ds

            Why is it a burden to me?

            • http://confederatepapist.blogspot.com/ Confederate Papist

              You seen to infer that an unwanted pregnancy is a burden which is why the only realistic choice is abortion. If that’s not your position, then why comment at all on this?

              • ds

                What about my comment implies this?

              • ds

                Also, abortion being a burden doesn’t mean it’s right. I am sure you agree that some burdens are crosses which should be taken up.

                I am uncomfortable with the idea that the state can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

                • Mark Shea

                  I want to use my body to pull a trigger and kill your body. I am uncomfortable with the state telling me what I can do with my body.

                  • ds

                    Come one Mark, that’s a bullshit analogy and you know it.

                    Abortion is a unique situation. There’s a human being living inside another human being’s body.

                    I don’t like the idea of abortion, but I really don’t like the idea of the government trying to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term. Do you have something constructive to say to that qualm? You’re a really smart guy and a great writer so if you have anything more than obviously poor analogies I’d honestly like to hear them.

                    • Mark Shea

                      How, apart from aesthetics, is it a bullshit analogy? Why does the geographic location of the victim make a difference? IF you answer, “Because the victim is physically dependent on the killer” then why isn’t killing a breastfeeding baby also okay? What, apart from location in the uterus is different? What’s so special about that location that the victim forfeits the right to life? I’ve never understood such logic.

                    • ds

                      Mark you are so smart I almost think you have to be lying about this. If a woman doesn’t want to stay pregnant, the human being inside must be removed. Which causes death.

                      If you don’t want to continue to care for a human being that is alive outside another human body, you don’t have to kill it you can just surrender it to another authority.

                      That is a big difference. It makes it a situation unlike any other. You want to continue to ignore that or do you have anything to say about it?

                      Just to make this distinction clear: If you have a 1 week old infant, you can hand it over to some competent authority for it’s care. You don’t have to kill it. If you have a 12 week old fetus in your uterus, their is no other way f0r it to live except inside your body. Different situation, right?

                  • ds

                    and also to clear things up some more, if you could not or simply would not care for your own 1 week old infant, you can surrender it to the state and just not care for it. The government would not force you to care for it. But you can’t make that choice with a 12 week old fetus.

                    • Andy, Bad Person

                      If a woman doesn’t want to stay pregnant, the human being inside must be removed. Which causes death.

                      How dishonest. Typically it’s being stabbed in the brain with scissors that causes death. The removal is just cleanup.

                    • ds

                      You’re gonna chicken out on anything other than a wise ass comment too, big bad andy?

                • Beadgirl

                  It’s not what she’s doing with her own body, but what she is doing to another body, that we object to.

                  • ds

                    One that’s growing inside her own body, and dependent on her body to survive. She must not harm that body that is inside her, on force of law. That’s what you want?

                    • Hezekiah Garrett

                      No, its what seems sadly neccessary, now that there are so many in our society, lik eyou, who view the death of innocents as valid response to inconvenience or difficulty.

                      Nah, I’d rather she WANT not to harm the other person involved. But since so many don’t, yeah, let law restrain the homocidal impulse.

                    • ds

                      I don’t necessarily think it’s a valid response, yet not one that should necessarily be illegal.

                    • Beadgirl

                      Yes, especially because in any such situation there is a way to help the woman bear the burden of an unwanted pregnancy, if we were willing to do so on personal, local, state, and federal levels. The fact that such help is harder and/or more expensive than an abortion is not a reason to kill the completely innocent child inside her.

        • Noah D

          “they want to kill babies.”

          Isn’t that what they want to be able to do?

          • ds

            The idea is legally a woman should be able to do what she wants with her own body.

            • Noah D

              Including kill her (and someone else’s) children?

              • ds

                If its living in her body, then yes. I dont relish the idea, but i dont like the idea of the government preventing it.

                I will admit im pretty conflicted about it though.

                • Hezekiah Garrett

                  “Including owning another person?”

                  “If its living on their property, working their feilds, eating their food, etc, then yes. I don’t relish the idea, but I don’t like the idea of government preventing it.”

            • Hezekiah Garrett

              Then let her shoot her own veins full of hypertonic solution and contract a professional to dismember her own body.

              She’d still be pregnant, but it wouldn’t progress any farther.

              • ds

                So then you think abortion should be legal?

                • Hezekiah Garrett

                  Of course not. I am saying that if you want to allow her to do whatever she wants to HER own body, that would be the outcome. The pregnant woman would inject the pregnant woman’s body (not the child’s directly) with heavy saline. The dismemberment was thrown in just for fun, to keep the party going.

                  But you don’t want her to be free to do what she wishes with her own body, but the body of another. An other that WOULD NOT EVEN EXIST had she not helped bring it into existence. She has a responsibility to this other life, not sovereignty over it.

                  Frankly, while your belief is the commonplace American veiwpoint, it is inhuman and incredibly evil. Its also par for the course for the people who invented the modern deathmarch, concentration camp, and nuclear bombs.

            • Thomas R

              Going beyond the abortion debate itself that’s not really an idea any nation validates. No nation really says a person can “legally do what they want with their own body.” (Or whatever is within their body) Unless you can find me a nation where the hospitals will sell you heroin and provide voluntary amputation. I’m not sure a doctor would even agree to kill all “intestinal microflora” because you think they’re gross or have some pet-theory you’d be better off without them. So a “fetus” has, in a way, less rights to survive than many other parts of your body like your arm or your spleen or your bacteria.

              Pro-Choice is really more logically, to me, about the idea pregnancy is an acquired medical condition or situation. Like having one kidney because you donated one or growing wisdom teeth or whatever. The idea being one can choose it, but one is not required to make oneself ill for the sake of another. I pointed out to someone of this view that this makes a woman who has an abortion similar to a person who lets someone die rather than giving bone marrow, but the person didn’t have much response except “it’s legal to do that.” Which I suppose could allow the compromise of “legal, but should make you a pariah.”

            • RK MacBride

              She can do what she wants with her OWN body! Birth control is cheap, and hey– self-control is free. Doesn’t cost a dime. IF she doesn’t want to be pregnant, she should think about that BEFORE becoming so. It’s like jumping off the high diving board — after you’ve done it, in midair is a little late to change your mind.

              The living human being that is inside her is NOT her own body! She or he has brainwaves, ability to perceive sensations, and his or her own blood type. The unborn child is an independent entity.

        • Beadgirl

          ds, in Carolyn Hax’s chat at the Washington Post last year, one woman wrote in that her teenage daughter’s friend was pregnant and had decided to keep the child; how could she convince the friend that this was a mistake and she should have an abortion? People chimed in with all sorts of tips.

          Of course, had she been asking advice on how to make the friend keep the baby instead, pro-choicers would have been in an uproar about the woman not respecting the girl’s choice.

          • ds

            Well, I think that’s pretty screwed up. I would hope most people would respond to that woman she should mind her own business.

            • Ed the Roman

              Sorry to shout, ds, but:

              THEY. DON’T.

              • ds

                Well at least they are only opining. You would have legal authorities force her to make the choice you want.

                • Hezekiah Garrett

                  Nope, again a lie. Rendering one option among several as verboten is not the same as forcing anyone to make a particular choice.

                  The people of Georgia found that they had a chance at a successful future, if they’d continue to work hard to bring that yellow rock up. But one thing stood in their way, other human lives already there on that place, claimed by Georgia and recognised by the United States. And so Georgia exercised “choice”, the Federal Government ultimately took your position…

                  … and 1 out of every 4 Cherokee men, women, and children (mostly babies and grandparents) died a horrible death.

                  Frankly, the political economy you inherited leads straight to Hell, if justice is anything more than an excuse for the strong to punish the weak for existing.

        • Ted Seeber

          I’ve had pro-choicers tell me to my face that I shouldn’t have been allowed to live. That’s usually *before* I tell them I’m autistic myself, and in general discussions on autism.

          • Beadgirl

            While no one has had the guts to say it to my face, I have unfortunately seen and read people argue that children with D.S., like Beadboy1, should never have been born. Then there are those lovely humanitarians who think all children should be aborted because the world is too crowded. There is a sizable contingency among pro-choicers who think the right choice is always an abortion.

    • Thomas R

      I read the writer was responding to letters about a characters unplanned pregnancy. Several insisted the character abort. The writers view wrt Pro-Life/Pro-Choice is not known to me.

  • http://gladius-spiritus.blogspot.com/ bear

    Brooke McEldowney, the author of the strip, added this in after he receved letters when he began the story arc, demanding that Edda go and have an abortion posthaste. According to him, the words of the “pro choice straw woman” are quotations.

    • Richard M

      And it’s a fair bet that the authors of those letters, and in general probabilities the character advocating the same in the strip, have had abortions of their own. Seeing another woman do the same helps validate that decision.

    • ds

      I don’t doubt that certain people would express that sentiment, but I never hear people say it and the general sentiment I get from feminists and pro-choicers is that women should be able to choose what to do with their own bodies.

      • Ted Seeber

        “that women should be able to choose what to do with their own bodies.”

        But that’s the problem, isn’t it? Once a woman is pregnant, it’s no longer just HER body.

        And I’m pretty sure that most pro-choicers *actually know that* and *don’t care*.

      • Andy, Bad Person

        I don’t doubt that certain people would express that sentiment,

        So will you retract your accusation of strawmen?

        • ds

          mmmm, no. it’s not representative.

          • Thomas R

            It’s representative of something the author dealt with. I have osteogenesis imperfecta. A Fundamentalist once told me I should go to a faith-healer and get “healed.” When I was uninterested he just told my Mom to “Get that (pointing at me) Healed.”

            Is he representative of Fundamentalists or Pentecostals? No, I’ve never met anyone else like him. Should I therefore avoid ever telling this story again? No, because it is something in my life. Who says my life has to be representative? It isn’t.

  • MClark

    This article says the words of the pro-choice woman are taken from actual correspondence the comic author has received.

    http://chickweedcafe.blogspot.com/p/frequently-addressed-questions.html

    This may mean pro-choice people en masse don’t know what “choice” means, or, more likely, that a few of McEldowney’s readers are afflicted with the “Somebody on the internet is WRONG!” disease.

  • B.E. Ward

    I must admit that, long before I was married, I had a comic-crush on Edda. She’s just so.. classy.

  • http://confederatepapist.blogspot.com/ Confederate Papist

    Bingo Beadgirl.

    ds – you seem to be conflicted yourself. If a woman was clearly concerned about what happens to her body, she should keep in mind that sex *always* leads to pregnancy (except in *one* case), so if she doesn’t want the burden of having this unplanned pregnancy, the best thing to do is to not have sex.

    • ds

      Sex does not always lead to pregnancy, and in many more cases than just the Blessed Mother’s.

      • Hezekiah Garrett

        Poor CP got it backwards. We’ll try again…

        Pregnancy, except in one instance, always occurs as a consequence of the sexual act. Or visitng some creepy white dude with a lab coat and a centrifuge, Ill grant you.

        All Mark wanted to do was use his body to pull a trigger, and you’d restrain him because squeezing triggers leads to people getting shot.

        We could effectively end abortion, completely, and every woman would still have a choice as to whether to be pregnant or not.

        And its that same simple choice.

        Out of curiosity, are you over 40 or under?

        • http://confederatepapist.blogspot.com/ Confederate Papist

          Thanks Hez….for some reason the Patheos gods didn’t like my original submission so I had to modify it…and somehow it also got pushed away from the original comment string as you can tell I was responding to Beadgirl’s responce further up the line there.

        • ds

          Just turned 39. You?

          • Hezekiah Garrett

            35.

            I love how the **&^%$s who made the cutoff are more than willing to screw those who come later.

            • Peggy Hagen

              Yep. 31, and know exactly what you mean; I was born under circumstances where,if my mother had not been Pro-Life, I would not have been born. That she would have had every legal freedom to murder me – and, if she chose, o never tell my father about me at all – isn’t exactly a comforting thought.

      • http://confederatepapist.blogspot.com/ Confederate Papist

        No…that’s true….but abstinence is 100% effective. And don’t give me the line of crap how “they’re gonna do it anyway” because if parents were parents and so-called “sex ed” in government schools actually promoted abstinence, there would be less instances of so-called “unwanted” pregnancies.

        • ds

          Ill try not to feed you any lines of crap.

        • Hezekiah Garrett

          It is hard sometimes not to see Americans as animals with no self-control, when some gigantic minority of Americans continually insist that they are just that!

  • Sadie

    It has nothing to do with telling the woman what to do with her body. The woman is not paying someone to rip her limbs off her own body, but rather the limbs of her son or daughter.

  • eko

    I will never tell another woman what to do with her body, DS – BUT if that woman has made choices that got her pregnant and there is a human being contained within her — it is no longer JUST her body we are dealing with. I know, I KNOW – what you are wanting to make understood, what you want to convey to us – what you are attempting to convince yourself of…but it will never change the fact that a human is being murdered. I met a woman recently – in her 40′s — she has 13 grandchildren…she was raped at 13 (by a 30 yo man-brother of the woman she babysat for) – her mother made him marry her daughter. They were together 10 years – she had two more children, and he never grew up or became much (his choice) her choice was to carry a burden NO 13 yo should have to. But she did! This woman is a beaming, living example of a true Christ living among us. She has had many a hard trial – has even been homeless – but always kept on keeping on. Never let go of her faith — and is proud to say she NEVER took a single handout from the government. When I think of women and choice – her face will always appear before me – her example is a life in no way easy – but definitely putting others’ above her self…especially that of a baby.

  • Rich Fader

    I’m curious as to when that choice became (at least for some people) a preferential option.


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