Goody! Somebody else wants the world to know…

…how truly despicable I am for not hosting them in an abuse fest at my expense on my own blog.

Happily, this disgruntled reader has his own blog and, as is my custom, I joyfully refer you there if you feel a burning need to join with him in celebrating the supreme evilness of my eviltudinosity.

Also, don’t forget the invaluable “Banished by Mark Shea Support Group” on FB, founded and run by a guy who got kicked out of my comboxes, merely because he was trying to celebrate the heroic greatness of Josef Mengele, the Angel of Death at Auschwitz.  Am I intolerant or what?

  • JB

    “What is Mark Shea Really Afraid Of?”
    The monster under the bed, perhaps?

    • Brian

      I think this question was answered the other day.

      The only think Mark has to fear is Fier Itzelph, the deformed Czech serial killer.

  • kalim

    Hi
    Said Nursi proved the existence of God in his books (Risalei Nur collection) (23 th flash)
    http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#leftmenu=Risale&maincontent=Risale&islem=read&KitapId=494&BolumId=8750&KitapAd=The+Flashes+(Revised+2009+edition)&Page=233

    I want to share these sentences

    Their prophets said: “Is there any doubt about God, Creator of the heavens and the earth?”

    O man! You should be aware that there are certain phrases which are commonly used and imply unbelief. The believers also use them, but without realizing their implications. We shall explain three of the most important of them.
    The First: “Causes create this.”
    The Second: “It forms itself; it comes into existence and later ceases to exist.”
    The Third: “It is natural; Nature necessitates and creates it.”
    Indeed, since beings exist and this cannot be denied, and since each being comes into existence in a wise and artistic fashion, and since each is not outside time but is being continuously renewed, then, O falsifier of the truth, you are bound to say either that the causes in the world create beings, for example, this animal; that is to say, it comes into existence through the coming together of causes, or that it forms itself, or that its coming into existence is a requirement and necessary effect of Nature, or that it is created through the power of One All-Powerful and All-Glorious. Since reason can find no way apart from these four, if the first three are definitely proved to be impossible, invalid and absurd, the way of Divine Unity, which is the fourth way, will necessarily and self-evidently and without doubt or suspicion, be proved true.

    • Ted Seeber

      And that, dear children, is why Islam has been unable to develop a coherent science, and must rely upon infidels for all knowledge of engineering.

      • Esther

        I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic, but there have been many great Muslim scientists. I don’t believe Islam is true but implying that Muslims are all crap at science just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. (If you’re being sarcastic or that wasn’t what you meant, then I apologise for my stupidity and would like you to elaborate.)

        • http://stevenadunn.wordpress.com Steven Dunn

          “there have been many great Muslim scientists”

          Name one that wasn’t educated at a Western institution.

          • http://hezekiahgarrett.wordpress.com Hezekiah Garret

            Or, if so, not regarded as a heretic by his own people for it.

        • Ted Seeber

          I’m being sarcastic, but it’s based on a real complaint that Pope Benedict XVI made in his speech at the University of Regansburg, combined with the Ottoman Caliph’s execution of rational Islamics. There is a theological thread in several Islamic schools that Allah cannot be judged by human rationality, and therefore, any attempt to describe an ordered universe from Allah is doomed to failure. Unlike the Christian God, the image of Allah painted in the Quran is not faithful and not consistent (a good example is in one section the Ummah are to be welcomed as equals in Islamic law, but in another section the Ummah are to be exterminated as a danger to Islamic Law).

          Hezekiah makes the rest of my point; the great modern Islamic engineers and scientists, including the terrorist Ossama bin Laden, were all educated in the west.

  • http://hezekiahgarrett.wordpress.com Hezekiah Garret

    THE TRUTH ABOUT MARK SHEA!!!

    Much has been made of Mr. Shea’s recent conversion from Jollyness to Transfattitude, but recent reports indicate the awful truth and it is more than decent people can bear. Apparently, the weight he lost was in the form of a 75lb MiniShea, whom he keeps locked away in his Puget Sound Compound, forced to perform domestic labor as well as serving as guinea pig in the search for newer and crueler (or is that cruller?) methods of literary torture. Reports have begun to trickle out from unnamed sources that this MiniShea is forced to subsist on the scraps from Mark’s plate as well as being used as transportation about the compound by Lucy the Cuteness, in a twisted ritual called “the pony ride”!!!

    Remember, you heard it here first!

    • Marty Helgesen

      It can’t be “cruller” because Mark is not a roll model.

      • bill t

        Oh you are just trying to “butter” him up.
        Quit loafing.

  • Noah D

    “What is Mark Shea Really Afraid Of?”

    Bears?

    • JB

      Girl cooties! Everyone’s afraid of girl cooties.

      • Linebyline

        What about girls?

    • Ted Seeber

      Atheists. Definitely Atheists.</Rain Man off.

  • Dan C

    Oh…banished!

    The huge mannatee!

  • Marthe Lépine

    What I found interesting about that other blog is that it seems to confuse “Truth” and “free market”! And the other thing: That blogger seems afraid to reveal his own name. Am I supposed to believe anything written by some anonymous person who happens to own a keyboard? As far as I am concerned, and please remember that I studied economics at the post-graduate level in a Catholic university that had “Rerum Novarum” among its textbooks, the theory of the market is nothing else than a useful model to attempt to explain the effects on the economy of innumerable business transactions between millions of individuals. In itself, it is not a law and it does not produce laws resembling, for example, the law of gravity in the natural sciences. It tries to describe and explain how human beings collectively do their various commercial exchanges. However, a lot of people seem to have made it an idol to be served and respected – or a “Truth”, as that other blogger seems to imply.

    • Ted Seeber

      Maybe he really is DB Cooper……

    • MarylandBill

      Actually, to a certain extent, I am going to defend posting anonymously (since I am semi-anonymous myself). Frankly it is scary out there. I know of at least one fairly prominent Catholic Blogger who also happens to have a day job who had people contact his employer to try and get him fired because of his blogging. Fortunately his employer mostly agrees with him, but not all of might be so lucky and we might have families that are our first responsibilities. Therefore, I don’t blame anyone for trying to remain anonymous.

  • Lauran

    Mark,
    These books you’ve written have been OK’d by the Church, yes? (Not trying to be obnoxious, honestly.)

    • http://hezekiahgarrett.wordpress.com Hezekiah Garret

      Are you asking about Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat, or if he got permission to write books?

      Not trying to be obnoxious, honestly. OK’d is just a very vague sort of expression.

      • Lauran

        Actually, you are trying to be obnoxius, honestly, HG. My question is addressed to Mark and this post doesn’t concern you either.

        I’m Catholic and interested in your books, Mark, which is the reason for my question.

        • Mark Shea

          Hi Lauren:

          I don’t know what books you mean. If it’s Mary, Mother of the Son, the books have a nihil obstat and imprimatur from the Diocese of San Diego.

          • Ted Seeber

            This makes me think we need a good post on the requirements for nihil obstat and imprimatur, along with a nice bibliography of Shea books that either have them or don’t and the reason why.

        • http://hezekiahgarrett.wordpress.com Hezekiah Garret

          Fair enough, we both interpret that particular phrase the same way…

    • Mark Shea

      What books? I’m not sure what you are referring to.

  • Marthe Lépine

    Back for another little comment to Mark: It seems to me that your problem is that you have not yet realized that common sense is dead and buried… Your talent for explaining difficult subjects in a language that everyone can understand, combined with your solid common sense, are two of the reasons I like your blog, but it’s just me, a 70 year old former economist and translator. You should know that those qualities are really out of style in the present generation, and are very scary for many people, particularly that other blogger who wonders what YOU are afraid of, while it’s him (or her) that is running scared.

  • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com/ Dave G.

    Uh huh. The sort of stuff that you can’t help but feel proud of as a modern Catholic.

  • David Agnew

    As one can tell from looking at Mark, he wants to have his cake and eat it too. And posts like this shows he wants his ice cream and wine, too.

    Mark has a tendency to cry foul when people to do him what he does to them. He whines and whines and whines at how people are rude and unfair to him and misrepresent him. But he is quick to over-simplify others, to ridicule them to extremes, and say it is all fair game. Sorry Mark, you are a big, bloated hypocrite, and your ideology has caught you (but not via mouse trap, I will give you that; no cheese!)

    • Scott W.

      I don’t read any whining in Mark’s entry. Mark has no problem with other people setting up their own blogs in order to spew–he just doesn’t have to support it here.

    • Andy, Bad Person

      Wow, fat jokes, huh? Say hi to the rest of the 4th graders.

    • Geoff

      I agree with Andy here “Wow, fat jokes?”

      And this is his personal blog, he may do with it as he pleases. Heck, he could ban me for having a red beard but brown hair if he chose and I could just cry in a corner for all the difference it would make.

      Even if he really was how you paint him to be that is his prerogative and he may do so at his pleasure.

      • Mark Shea

        I have a reddish beard. Welcome, my brother! We are bound together by bonds of indissoluble unity!

        FWIW, I kinda like the fat insults, since I’ve lost 80 pounds. :)

        • http://hezekiahgarrett.wordpress.com Hezekiah Garrett

          You’ve lost 80lbs, or MiniShea has gained 5?

  • Consistency

    The guy is an idiot but your twitchy trigger finger doesn’t reflect well on you. I’m not rich or Republican, but that piece smacked of post revolution French philosophy.

    • http://disputations.blogspot.com Tom K.

      ” I’m not rich or Republican, but that piece smacked of post revolution French philosophy.”

      Let me both applaud the use of “smacked of”, and observe that the piece quoted the Gospels, Chesterton, and (in an update) the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

      • Andy, Bad Person

        “Smacked of,” and its cousin, “it seems to me,” is code for “I’m going to attribute to you something you’ve not said, and then tear down that non-statement.”

        • http://disputations.blogspot.com Tom K.

          Neither reads that way in my codebook.

          • Peggy R

            You’re all wrong. I checked my decoder:
            “Be sure to drink your Ovaltine.”

            • http://hezekiahgarrett.wordpress.com Hezekiah Garret

              It’s not even All Hallow’s and already they’re bringing out the Christmas decorations…

            • ivan_the_mad

              Like +1

              lorem ipsum baa-ram-ewe

        • Consistency

          “The fact is, of course, that the rich man is bribed; he has been bribed already. That is why he is a rich man.”

          This quote by Chesterton is over the top, and reeks of post revolution French economic theories. The idea that no one can amass wealth while remaining honest is ridiculous. It may be rare, but it is certainly not out of the question.

          “It seems to me” is generally a charitable way of softening any interpretation one might make.

          • Mark Shea

            Does this…

            Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. 2 Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure * for the last days. 4 Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. 5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you. (James 5:1-6)

            …also reek of post revolution French economic theories? America: Where the tender feelings of the rich are always of primary importance.

            • http://natewinchester.wordpress.com/ Nate Winchester

              America: Where the tender feelings of the rich are always of primary importance.

              Mark, how does admitting that the rich might have feelings and might actually be people (so I suspect, studies are still being done but my last 3 autopsies were fruitful), mean that it’s someone’s primary importance?

              Of course I’ve heard rumors that Jesus might love rich people and died for their sins too but that’s probably crazy talk from some heretic.

              See what I did there? That (and yours) excluded middle s*** (the “you don’t think this is as evil as I do thus you must love this” or vice versa) is exactly what’s wrong with our politics now and leads to the extreme tribalism.

              • Mark Shea

                Because I can count on the fact that when the topic under discussion is a rich man’s eagerness to prove himself manly by casually approving the cold-blooded murder of innocents, pointing that fact out will usually elicit, not biblical condemnations of the rich, but American cries of pity for them as victims too.

                • http://natewinchester.wordpress.com/ Nate Winchester

                  So you have 1 individual of a group that’s wickedly monstrous and needs to be restrained (or killed if the former is impossible) yet you keep using phrases and quotes that apply to the group that individual is a part of as a whole (as you did two posts up in response to an individual previously who spoke of the group as a whole). Geez, how can people not keep it all straight. /sarc

              • Dan C

                There is no doubt Christ died for all. Paul says so. Good theology says so. Got it…even rich folk.

                I have been reading enough conservative Catholic material to know that such tenderness of feeling is not reserved in the same manner for those who receive welfare, because of the certain prior assumptions of the negative social force that receiving welfare implies.

                Additionally, I also know the tone that is deemed acceptable to discuss in judgement of deceased gay men.

                To discuss the challenge of the combination of possessing wealth and Christian discipleship is of theological significance, poorly done through two millenia past the first generation of disciples, and of prime importance in America today, both in civil and religious matters.

                Luke quotes Christ far more harshly than anyone is treating the wealthy on this blog. We tend to forget that and jump quickly to Matthew’s Beatitudes.

                I think that the Gospels are really tough on the rich. And go easy on the adulteress, the prostitutes, and the thieves, by comparison to the absolute slamming the rich receive in parable after parable, story after story. I do not think our society or our political discussion is as tough or as easy, especially that informed by the Catholic faith.

                Maybe the discussion of economics in 2012 needs to begin with the Gospel assessment of the rich, not on the undeservedness of the poor, our desires for “successfully fixing” poverty, or to what parsimonious degree do we wish to support an inner city public school.

                Maybe our discussion will circle back to the homogeneity of our communities, stratified by income, which also is reflected in our income-stratified worship communities, something not very Pauline in construction, and, in my opinion, is at the core of the death of faith in our country.

                • http://natewinchester.wordpress.com/ Nate Winchester

                  Additionally, I also know the tone that is deemed acceptable to discuss in judgement of deceased gay men.

                  And I’m no more fond of “my side” dehumanizing people either and try to call it out when I spot it.

                  Luke quotes Christ far more harshly than anyone is treating the wealthy on this blog. We tend to forget that and jump quickly to Matthew’s Beatitudes.

                  And others tend to forget that most of the poor (defined as say, bottom 20% of the nation) have more wealth (from an economics definition) than Herod or the other richest people of Jesus’ time.

                  So… you have a conundrum there. Is the Christ in Luke is being harsher to the poor of this time than anyone else as well?

                  See, there is absolute poverty/wealth (an example of the former would be things like actually dying of hunger or exposure) and relative poverty/wealth. On an absolute scale, the poor in America are vanishingly small (and most often new arrivals to the country). On a relative scale… well then you learn the truth that when Jesus said, “the poor you’ll always have with you”, also means that “the rich you’ll always have with you too”. So then what? You’ve now created a group of designated sinners? Heck, now we can offer redemption for all by just picking one person and making them so rich that everyone else is poor in comparison. Then they’ll be the sinner and we’ll be the righteous. All praise Bill Gates, who takes away the sins of the world! (wasn’t the term for that long ago “scapegoat”?)

                  Hmm… didn’t the pharisees do something like that?

          • ivan_the_mad

            “This quote by Chesterton is over the top, and reeks of post revolution French economic theories.” Yesss. A man who proposed an economic theory based squarely off of Rerum Novarum, with some medieval arrangements and the tradition of the English freeholder thrown into the mix, is totally “over the top, and reeks of post revolution French economic theories.” Glad to see that universal literacy is working out.

    • Ted Seeber

      “post Revolution French Philosophy” is anti-Clerical atheism in disguise.

      • http://hezekiahgarrett.wordpress.com Hezekiah Garret

        It isn’t very well disguised in that case.

        • Noah D

          It’s kinda like one of those glasses with the nose and moustache attached.

          • ivan_the_mad

            You’d be surprised how well that disguise works in America. Just look at how well the Republocrats make people think there are really two parties :P

  • http://peace Puck

    Kicking people out should be very rare – and done so only to stop abusive, troll-ish behaviour – not because you don’t agree with someone.

    But once you do kick someone out – it isn’t wise to refer to him again – let it end.

    • http://hezekiahgarrett.wordpress.com Hezekiah Garret

      SHUT DOWN THE COMBOXES!!!

  • Pathfinder

    Is that what happened to my reply to that commentor? I had, what I thought, was a good comment about wealth creating the opportunity to debauch (so in and of itself it was not evil, but it did up the temptation) and how many on the right have gone head over heels in love with the gospel of prosperity, which is, imho, a path to anti-Christian thought/behavior.

    I thought it was a good comment…

  • Hermann

    Please banish me – I want to join them on FB!

    Shalom
    Hermann

  • http://homeschoolconnections.com Maureen

    Wow, I am shocked by the lack of charity at the FB group. Haters got to hate, but these are fellow Catholics? Another opportunity to pray for others I suppose.

  • Nate

    Wow. If this guy is ragging on you, he must lose his mind when he sees the writings of, say, Christopher Ferrara or John Medaille. Shea is pretty tame compared to these Cats.

  • Sean O

    Friends & countrymen lend me yer ears,
    Is there a “Mark Shea Blows” group that I can join out here in Chicago? I don’t want to be the last man on the bandwagon.

  • http://stevenadunn.wordpress.com Steven Dunn

    This is a particularly strange and uncharitable thread.

    • Mark Shea

      It’s awful of me that I just can’t take a punch.

      • http://stevenadunn.wordpress.com Steven Dunn

        I was referring to the comment thread, not the post.

  • antigon

    The first website gives the impression of a college sophomore who’s just discovered National Review, but the FB page was a real delight. Essentially three people constantly reassuring each other that Shea is a Fatso! who likes to eat!
    And though the actual – and so many! – fulminations are marginally less polished, it’s good to know the country’s produced people with time & energy for this important work.

    • Mark Shea

      Everybody needs a hobby.

  • Joe

    The blog will turn into an abandoned site in less than two months.

    • Chris M

      ATTENTION ATTENTION! ABANDON ALL BLOGS. ABANDON ALL BLOGS.

  • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

    I once participated in an exile group. Stratfor used to have a thriving community and then killed it off without much ado. I think they started getting upset that we were occasionally providing better analysis then them. That community went off to strategytalk.org and continued there. It’s still live.

    It sounds like the Shea refugees don’t have the critical mass necessary to create a viable community or the talent to draw others in. I butt heads with Mark often enough that they should be recruiting me and others like me if they were smart about how to fight this kind of war. They are not.

    • http://hezekiahgarrett.wordpress.com Hezekiah Garrett

      I got my recruitment letter over a week ago, no joke. You didn’t?

      • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

        Nope, unless it’s in my mail backlog (which *is* atrociously large admittedly). Perhaps in their eyes I’m not a regular.

  • Dale Price

    Obviously, Mark suffers from heliophobia. Otherwise, he wouldn’t live in the Seattle area.


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