Prayers for the Families of Sandy Hook Elementary School

Father, grant eternal life to the victims, mercy to their murderer, and grace, healing, and consolation to all those who love them through Christ our Lord. Mother Mary and the Holy Innocents, pray for them and for our wretched country that so regularly produces these outrages.

  • Ed the Duck

    Amen. Well Said.

  • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com/ Dave G.

    Prayers for the children and their families at this time.

    • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com/ Dave G.

      It looks like not all the victims were children. Prayers for all the victims and their families.

  • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

    Prayer for the children who survived also. They will be severely traumatized.

    Mercy for the murderer…yes, though I’m not feeling it at the moment.

    We seriously gotta figure out what causes this kind of thing. Did he (and other recent shooters) just start (or stop) from some psychiatric med? Or what?

    • Rosemarie

      +J.M.J+

      >>>Mercy for the murderer…yes, though I’m not feeling it at the moment.

      Ditto.

      During our recent discussion of whether anyone is going to hell, I was thinking that it would be lovely if everyone, or at least almost everyone, would end up in heaven (which I don’t think will be the case). Then this happens and I suddenly catch myself hoping that the shooter is in hell for what he did to all those little kids! I corrected myself since that’s not a Christian sentiment (though perhaps an all-too-human one), but I just find it interesting how horrible events like this can sometime make us “hopeful” of damnation – for someone else, at least. I imagine there may be even some secular or nominally religious people out there who don’t usually believe in hell but when they hear about something this horrendous they wish the killer were immersed in flames at this very moment! Funny thing about us humans; I guess it’s our innate desire for justice.

      • http://janalynmarie.blogspot.com Beadgirl

        I’ve been thinking about the recent discussion too. But in my case, I’m not so focused on whether he is in hell — I don’t think I really care. What I want to know, what I wish I could have witnessed, is his confrontation with God, when he would have been forced to acknowledge the enormity of what he did, and more importantly to acknowledge God Himself. And I want to know, really know, that that confrontation happened. This is where doubt hits me the strongest.

      • Roberto

        I am not sure it is our desire for justice, rather than our desire for revenge. At this time I don’t know if the guy was mentally ill, but I am ever more convinced that Mark is right here too: this seems to be the fruit of a disordered and me-centered society that gives no hope to many young people.
        Time to pray and mourn; to mourn the victims, their families and our failure to build the kingdom.

        • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com/ Dave G.

          I’m sure there are many reasons, and we may never know. But I try not to be too quick to equate justice with revenge. Some people are capable of wanting one without necessarily wanting the other. But in the end, a time to pray and mourn as you say, and really nothing else, unless it’s time for me to reflect on what part I’ve played in this culture that may be the culprit.

  • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

    Amen, amen. May we see a miracle that brings some good out of this tragedy however He sees fit to do so.

  • mike in kc, mo

    Please, I ask all of you, STOP CALLING IT A TRAGEDY.
    A tragedy is when a family in a car loses control and flips over a bridge into the river. That’s a tragedy.
    This was a willful, premeditated act of pure evil, mass murder, not a ‘tragedy’.

    • Mark Shea

      A tragedy is when a man made in the image and likeness of God, with the potential for a greatness so immense as to share in the divine nature and everlasting joy, becomes a monster worthy of the everlasting fires of hell.

      This is a tragedy.

      • Mike in KC, MO

        True, but that exact same way of use applies to absolutely anyone who dies outside the state of grace, even quietly in his bed.

        What I am talking about is the common usage of the word ‘tragedy’ in our culture. Usually when we people talk about ‘tragedy’ they aren’t referring to dramatic composition of classical Greek origin or a literary/art theory.

        They are using in in the form of “a shocking or sad event; disaster”, which they use for everything from mass murder to a tornado.

        • DTMcCameron

          Keeping the Greek origin and literary theory in mind, this actually seems a truer tragedy than the hypothetical car-flip into a river, which is…well, just bad luck, I guess.

  • Michelle

    Funk and Wagnalls Standard Dictionary copyright 1976

    tragedy (noun) 1) a form drama of drama in which the protagonist, having some quality of greatness, comes to disaster through some flaw in his nature that interacts with thee fabric of events (the plot) to bring about his inevitable downfall or death, the action being managed in a way to produce pity ofr fear in the spectator and to effect a catharsis of these feelings….. 2) A fatal event or course of events; murder especially on involving dramatic incidents. 3.) A very terrible of sorrowful fate or end.

    This event was most definitely a tragedy.

    • http://gladius-spiritus.blogspot.ca/ bear

      ” through some flaw in his nature ”

      That is a bad translation of Aristotle’s term, Hamartia, which is an archery term for missing the mark. The new testament, in the original Greek, also uses the word hamartia, but the meaning there is now translated as “sin”. So the definition should read “Having some quality of greatness, comes to disaster through sin…”

      Which is another way of saying this most definitely was a tragedy. I am praying for all, and the victims of the tragedy in Japan.

    • Mike in KC, MO

      As I mentioned above, what I am talking about is the common usage of the word ‘tragedy’ in our culture. Usually when we people talk about ‘tragedy’ they aren’t referring to dramatic composition of classical Greek origin or a literary/art theory. They mean “a shocking or sad event; disaster”, which, while technically true, is maddeningly imprecise in common use and understanding. It gets applied to everything from mass murder to football teams not going to the superbowl. That is why I prefer to call it what it was: mass murder, which leaves no doubt, in common usage or otherwise, as to what was involved.

      Yes, I know common usage routinely uses words in ways that they are not primarily meant to be used in. (witness the word ‘gay’).

  • Meggan

    I can’t say that I wish or I think that the shooter is in hell. I believe in hell and I’m very angry at the man that did this, but I have to believe that there was something terribly, seriously wrong with the man’s mind. I hope that at the last moment of his life he understood how evil his actions were and that he felt sorry. I don’t know what God will do to this man. Thank God that I don’t have to make that decision. I pray especially for his family because they have the grief that comes not only from losing him but from knowing that he did such a terrible, horrible thing to other human beings.

  • http://ohnimus.wordpress.com Christian Ohnimus

    I was in the midst of reading through a Harvard study on guns and violent crime (link at bottom) when this happened. I had just read this part before hearing about the shooting:

    “To reiterate, the determinants of murder and suicide are
    basic social, economic, and cultural factors, not the preva‐
    lence of some form of deadly mechanism.”

    I feel as if even our scientists are crying out, in their own particular way, to our society as if to say, “You can’t have a narcissistic, nihilistic society that disregards basic human dignity and ignores objective reality and then expect a peaceful society where you can just eliminate violence by making it illegal! How we live our lives affects everyone!”

    When will we realize that these are not isolated incidents but the natural progression of an expansive culture of death?

    http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

    • Rosemarie

      +J.M.J+

      If we could get rid of every firearm in the country, I guess we’d have no more mass shootings – just a rise in bombings, poison gassing, or other types of mass murder. As long as there is murderous evil in a human heart, it doesn’t matter if you take away one type of weapon. The killer will just take up another one.

      I wish there were a way to prevent these kind of events but I don’t see how, since they come from within a person, not from externals that we can control. And why have so many of these recent shooters been young, 20-something year old men? The crazy kid in Tuscon, the “joker” in Colorado, even the guy in the mall in Oregon just days ago – all between the ages of 20 – 25. So was the Virginia Tech shooter, for that matter, though that’s going back a while.

      • frenchcookingmama

        You nailed it. We really need to be looking at the reasons why so many young men are spinning out like this. This is more urgent than yet another gun control debate.

      • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

        We change how we treat the mentally ill and we are surprised when the evils the previous system kept at bay return. We change how we treat young boys and young men and we are surprised when things change in those population segments too.

        Woe to you if you try to get rid of the “enlightened” policies though. Not working seems to be an insufficient motivation.

        • erikson

          What changes do you refer to? As a person diagnosed with Aspergers disorder and a personality disorder, I’d be interested in knowing.

    • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

      You nailed it, sir!

  • ivan_the_mad

    May the victims see the face of their Creator and live. May their families and the survivors know the comfort of His love. May the murderer know His mercy.

  • http://www.theleenmachine.blogspot.com KML

    Amen. Trying to wrap my mind around this.

  • http://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/ Zippy

    It is quite possible that Adam Lanza was on psychotropic medications. People think that putting someone with a “personality disorder” or “bipolar disorder” or “ADHD” or whatever on medications will make that person more functional, or at least safer. That is most definitely not always the case; and the extent to which it is not the case is well hidden by the way the pharmacomedical system hides data and blocks patient feedback.

  • SteveP

    Come Lord Jesus, do not delay.

  • Cinlef

    Grant them eternal rest, O Lord,
    and let perpetual light shine upon them.

  • ED

    This is obviously a very sad and difficult time for many people. Shock, anger, tears… and so-o-o many unanswered questions. Prayers are needed and very necessary for *all* concerned.

    We may never be able to completely understand – or to even make any sense of – why this horrible slaughter of so many young children took place in Connecticut Friday… BUT… at least we Americans can all agree it’s *illegal* in this society and no sane person would ever defend this type of atrocity.

    Wish I could say the same about the horrible slaughter taking place daily in this country of even younger children still in the womb. Or… the sending of our older children/(young adults) off to die needlessly in unjust wars. Or… Or…

    In any case… keep praying my friends. Keep praying…

  • John C

    Frankly, I don’t know what to think about this terrible event. It just deepens the mystery of human existence. Kind of numbing. I will note that some people on this blog still don’t understand the difference between justice and revenge. One other thing: Years ago I remember reading about “cheap grace”. Now it seems we have the concept of “cheap forgiveness”. Let’s hold off on the forgiveness for a little while, OK? A little decency.

  • EBS

    Very very sad to hear of this school shooting. God help the families of those victims- the parents of those children. My heart cries for them. God give them strength at this terrible time.
    Same old story- if guns weren’t “the norm” in America, this murderer would not have done the extent of killing he did. Period. And now the Gun Lobby is saying,”well, the real problem is that school should have had a fire arm to defend itself from such attacks”.
    This is the most stupid thing I have ever heard! Who the hell would have been responsible for use of this “school gun” at this Kindy to Year 4 elementary school? The School Principal, The school secretary, or the School Janitor?! Obama should do the right thing immediately and tighten gun possession laws- no discussion, no hesitation! He seems to put mandates willy nilly except where it counts.

    • Noah D

      Things you may want to take a look at:

      – how Israel handles arming their teachers.

      - how armed citizens have halted such attacks, even recently.

      - the psychology of these spree killers, and how publicizing their names, faces and other personal data gives them what they want, and motivates others to do the same thing.

      • sandy

        It would not be hard to train a principal to use a handgun in a crisis situation and to carry it concealed. Or have an armed guard. That most likely would have stopped this demented person.

        Both the principal and psychologist ran at him; had either been armed, they would have shot him.

        • EBS

          What if the teacher is having a bad day, or psychologically deranged themselves, do you then arm the children so they can protect themselves from the armed teacher. Don’t stop there; arm every CEO of a company, incase there is a deranged employee. Then arm every employee incase the CEO is deranged. Oh yeah, then arm every University head because a student got a bad grade and decided to come to school with a gun. Then arm every student incase one of the lecturers is off his/head….I can keep going if you want…

  • EBS

    Very very sad to hear of this school shooting. God help the families of those victims- the parents of those children. My heart cries for them. God give them strength at this terrible time.
    Same old story- if guns weren’t “the norm” in America, this murderer would not have done the extent of killing he did. Period. And now the Gun Lobby is saying,”well, the real problem is that school should have had a fire arm to defend itself from such attacks”.
    This is the most stupid thing I have ever heard! Who the hell would have been responsible for use of this “school gun” at this Kindy to Year 4 elementary school? The School Principal, The school secretary, or the School Janitor?! Obama should do the right thing immediately and tighten gun possession laws- no discussion, no hesitation! He seems to put mandates willy nilly except where it counts. Otherwise those tears were just crocodile tears.

    • Dave

      You really think gun control laws are the problem here? New Jersey and Connecticut already had the strongest gun control laws in the country. The guns were registered to his mother. He managed to get a hold of them. Unfortunately, it’s like Pandora’s box. Guns exist. Criminals and nuts will find a way to get them.

      • Marthe Lépine

        However I just cannot understand why any woman would need four (4) guns… And I do agree with EBS. On the same day as this tragedy happened, a similar rampage happened in China. However the attacker only had a knife. He did a lot of damage, but there were not so many casualties – maybe none at all, but I cannot remember right now. IMHO the easy availability of guns is a real problem that needs to be looked into.

        • Rosemarie

          +J.M.J+

          Actually, as the report below says, the guy in China stabbed 22 children and one elderly woman. All of them reportedly survived, but it shows that even just a knife can do a lot of damage. The number of those injured in China (23) is very close to the number of those killed in the school (26, not counting the murderer).

          (I’m a little baffled at how someone could stab so many people but not kill any; maybe he was only aiming to injure, not striking any major organs?)

          BTW, I’m also puzzled why the mother thought she needed that many guns. She was concerned about living alone in a big house; wouldn’t a good home security system suffice? I’m not a gun owner/enthusiast so I guess I don’t understand.

          • sandy

            People buy guns for different reasons. Some for protection, some collect, some like shooting at ranges. Whatever her reasons, she clearly should not have had that many available in her house with a mentally disturbed son. It was a tragedy waiting to happen.

            • Rosemarie

              +J.M.J+

              Yeah, I agree. That was a bad idea.

        • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

          I also remember reading a story where a guy picked up a knife at the grocery store (in Utah, I believe) and started to go on a rampage, whereupon a legally armed patron of the store pulled a gun on him and told him to drop the knife or get shot. Rampage over.

          • EBS

            Yeah a person with a black belt in karate could have stopped him also. Or one with a baseball bat, or someone could have thrown a can at his head and knocked him down. Or he could have been tasered. Many creative ways to stop him, with having to use a gun.

            • Dave

              Apparently, no one with a black belt was there. And “stop or I’ll throw a can at you” doesn’t really intimidate quite as well.

              • EBS

                Ok, all hail the gun! the perfect answer. Buy ‘em up!

        • Hezekiah Garrett

          That’s easy, Martha. 1 handgun, 1 shotgun, 2 long guns (one small and the other large caliber.) That’s 4, all for different tasks.

          Now, how many clocks does a single person really need? And the point to that question is that different clocks get used differently, not that clocks are not deadly. Firearms, outside the hands of human beings, are hardly more deadly than clocks. The proper clock in the right hands can kill.
          My people have lived thru attempted disarmings. Such things leave you sitting ducks for richer, more powerful people. No thank you. Not this government especially.

  • Confederate Papist

    Awful. Just awful.

    My heart breaks for the victims and the survivors..the families and the community. And for the family of the shooter and the shooter himself. Only God knows why this happened.

  • EBS

    As written by columnist Miranda Devine in today’s Australian Newspaper “The Daily Telegraph”. It could not have been said better:

    “I was born in America and lived there for a long time. I went to university there and I worked there.
    As a people, Americans are courteous, hospitable and socially adroit. But the scenes which come all too often from the country I admire, of massacres by misfits with automatic weapons, of ordinary people traumatized beyond belief, are a blight on America.
    They tell us there is something sick in a nation that is a shining beacon of freedom to the world. Of a paralysis in democracy that prevents sensible limits on the availability of powerful weapons the founding fathers would never have envisaged when they enshrined the right to bear arms in the US constitution. At least 27 people, including 20 children, have been killed in the latest school shooting at the Sandy Hook primary school in the idyllic town of Newtown, Connecticut.
    One of the weapons used reportedly was a .223-caliber assault rifle, a semi-automatic weapon that fires up to six bullets a second. It is a weapon designed for combat.
    Will America now finally do something about gun control?
    Heartbreaking images of small children being led out of the school in single file, faces frozen in shock, keep coming. Mothers breaking down. It is an unimaginable tragedy. And yet so preventable.
    You can’t always stop mentally ill or evil people being violent but you can limit the death toll by controlling their access to powerful weapons. For instance, in a remarkably similar incident in China on Friday, a 36-year-old man with a knife rampaged through a primary school in the village of Chengping. Twenty two children and one adult were injured. No one was killed. After the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania in 1996, in which 35 people were killed by a man wielding two semi-automatic rifles, John Howard banned all such weapons. We have not had a similar incident since. “As a country we have been through this too many times,” US President Obama, said yesterday. “We’re going to have to come together to meaningful action on this, regardless of the politics.” About time. Both Obama and his Republican rival Mitt Romney disappointingly dodged the gun control question in the second presidential debate. But the tyranny of an uncompromising gun lobby over the vulnerable majority is the opposite of freedom. The right of children to go to school without being murdered outweighs the right of an angry man to own a military assault rifle.”
    AMEN to that.

    • Rosemarie

      +J.M.J+

      So is this guy wrong then?

      The Aussie Lesson: Less Guns, More Crime
      http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/15/The-Aussie-Lesson-Less-Guns-More-Crime

      • EBS

        Less Guns equal more crime has absolutely nothing, NOTHING to do with mass shootings. His argument that “criminals don’t obey gun laws” is a no-brainer. At the moment in South West Sydney, about 20 minutes from where I live, there has been a very big increase in drive by shootings- all drug related, all directed and targeted at criminals. All criminal VS criminal. So who cares, let them shoot each other, they are getting done for gun possession ASWELL as murder when they get caught.
        But there has never been an open massacre like that of Port Arthur 1996- sniper style, on innocent unsuspecting people, let alone 6year olds in their classrooms since. Yet in America its just become too regular. Haven’t Americans had enough?
        You can’t control the behavior of anyone, let alone a deranged psychopath, but you can limit their access to high powered military style weapons. Those parents would have been absolutely mortified and distraught if that psychopath had a knife, but more than likely their child would have survived- I’m looking at things from a parents perspective, being myself a parent. Those children and teachers at Sandy Nook all had MULTIPLE gunshot wounds, shot point blank, with no chance of survival, no ability to defend themselves against a gun. I can’t believe its still a “debate” right now. It’s become beyond ridiculous to even justify. The International community does not understand it. It’s not a Republican VS Democrat thing, nor an American thing. It’s plain common sense. It’s just become so harrowing and sad to see, and I’m not even American.

        • Rosemarie

          +J.M.J+

          Innocent people, including children, can get caught in the crossfire of drive-bys. Doesn’t that just illustrate the point that even strict gun control laws don’t eliminate gun violence?

          School killings are also a regular thing in China, it seems. The guy who non-fatally “stabbed” twenty kids that day was apparently aiming for their heads (they suffered mostly head and ear injuries according to reports). God forbid he was aiming for their hearts, the outcome could have been much like at Newtown.

          Perhaps other social situations are to blame in America. Like how we deal with (or fail to deal with) our mentally ill. That’s why there is a debate; the matter is not as cut and dry as these simplistic, politicized arguments make it out to be.

          • Marthe Lépine

            Maybe but in order to stab children the attacker had to get to each one separately, instead of shooting them all at once from the door of the classroom… This slows things down considerably, gives more time to other people for trying to stop him, and he cannot just shoot from a distance at the people rushing in to help. Guns DO present the possibility of more lethal damage. It will never be possible to stop any and all evil to happen, but doing things that can limit the damage, such as imposing very strict limits to the proliferation of weapons, is still necessary while we find ways to deal with mentally ill people.

            • Rosemarie

              +J.M.J+

              Bombs also present the possibility of more lethal damage. Like I said above, if we got rid of all the guns, mass shootings would end but bombings could easily take their place. The Oklahoma City bombing didn’t involve shooting, but explosive fertilizer instead. Even the Columbine killers intended to use a mixture of firepower and explosives. The latter 20 lb propane tanks attached to timers and hidden in duffel bags, failed to go off. Maybe we should ban fertilizer and propane tanks to stop madmen from using them.

          • EBS

            Its not an indiscriminate barrage of bullets like Sandy Nook RoseMarie- its targeted at a house.
            No problem is cut and dry, and this most certinly is not to be politicized! Mental health is an issue everywhere, not just in America, and of course should be treated with immense seriousness. As does the underlying social issues that drive those to be so angry. As does the fact that society does not fear our God Almighty and his Judgement. All contribute. All are serious. I don’t disagree one bit. Don’t use these as excuses to undermine the fact this boy planned an attack on an innocent school using his easy access to his mums 4 guns. Period. Stop talking about “crime”. It doesn’t address this terrible incident at all. It insults those who died, as just victims of a “crime”, rather than dead innocent Americans with laws and an “entitled” society that failed to protect them.
            There are psychopaths everywhere. We live in a country where 1 in 10 have a mental issue. We have same problems as any other democratic country. The problem, like abortion, is that your leaders have made it political. And the citizens have followed.
            Crime won’t go awaaaay. Mass shooting in Colleges and classrooms, will and can go awaaaay.
            My dad had a hunting rifle before us kids were born. Innocent I know. He sold it when my brother (his first born) was a baby. We were never paranoid growing up without one. Why are you? Gun possession is not in our constitutional rights. I dont understand why in the American mentality there is this core need to own a gun for self defense. From who? The English arent gonna invade you anymore. And dont worry about the arabs, you have the market covered, and you have the Australians and British helping you on that one. You are still one-up on the Chinese. So Relax. Which leaves one group- the threatening fellow American.
            Your founding fathers in including gun posession as a constitutional right, Im sure, didn’t suspect that these guns would be high tech semi-automatics that fire multiple rounds. Gee, why stop there, add hand grenades while you are at it- hell they can be used for self defense too, especally over those deep wide moats that you built around your fortresses to protect you from your unsuspecting neighbor. Forget God, as the source of protection. All hail the gun!
            Keep defending those status quo rights with zeal, and if it makes you happy and “safe”, then don’t change anything. At all.
            Go treat the millions with those mental issues and address the cause of the mental issues, and in the meantime, ignore that access to military style weapons is as easy as access to candy. Why if you dont have one, Mummy might keep 4 you can borrow! Wow, 4! For hunting deer in the suburbs.
            Will the mass style killings stop? On 6 year olds? In classrooms? Arm the 6year old while you are at it- its self-defense, As Gun Lobby suggested so lovingly. I’m dizzy already.
            And don’t be naive, guns, like abortion, is big big business. Threaten the Industry with regulations and you threaten their back pockets. And keep stupidly believing it’s wholesome and right to own a high powered weapons for self defense.

            I think it’s a debate that will keep going round in circles because unfortunately nobody wants to think the problem through. It’s like talking to a brick wall, with blinkers on, deaf dumb and mute, holding onto their “entitlements” with zeal. Keep using weak arguments about cross fire crime in drive by shootings and supermarket psychos with knives. We will just keep shaking our heads, hands on our hearts, crying for your innocents and young – oh free and brave America.

            • Rosemarie

              +J.M.J+

              I didn’t say the victims in Newtown were mere victims of a crime. The point I was trying to make is that guns can never be totally banned; if people really want them, they will get a hold of them.

              >>>We were never paranoid growing up without one. Why are you?

              My family never owned a gun. I have never owned a gun and don’t intend to buy one.

              What bothers me, especially within the context of this current administration, is the knowledge that a government often makes firearms illegal and seizes them just before crushing the freedoms of the people. I fear that things may be ramping up right now for that to happen. And no, I’m not saying “We need our guns to fight the Second American Revolution!” I’ve said before that I don’t believe any would-be revolutionaries would stand a chance against the weapons tech of the US armed forces which could be brought to bear against them (though I doubt it would even come to that). No, it’s just a foreboding sense that there may be more behind these calls for gun control.

              >>>Your founding fathers in including gun posession as a constitutional right, Im sure, didn’t suspect that these guns would be high tech semi-automatics that fire multiple rounds.

              Actually, I don’t see the need for average people to possess semi-automatics either, so you’re pretty much preaching to the choir at this point. Yeah, I know the killer’s mom owned one, and I’ve questioned why she needed so many guns. But she did get them all legally, in a state with gun laws that are stringent already. So I’m just wondering what more the anti-gun side wants to be done… just how far do they want to take this.

              >>>Gee, why stop there, add hand grenades while you are at it- hell they can be used for self defense too, especally over those deep wide moats that you built around your fortresses to protect you from your unsuspecting neighbor. Forget God, as the source of protection. All hail the gun!

              Okay, let’s turn the histrionics down a notch here and look at some facts. The Second Amendment became law in 1791. The first mass school shooting in the US was in 1966 – The Texas Bell Tower Sniper on the U of Texas campus. If gun ownership is responsible for these mass shootings, why did it take 175 years for the first mass shooting in the US to occur? Surely we should have had such horrors occurring regularly all the time the Second Amendment was in effect.

              Mass shootings remained rare occurances for a while, but have become more and more frequent over the last two decades. There are many possible reasons why. The trend of the last forty years has been to not commit people with mental disorders; “They’ll do fine in society as long as they stay on their meds.” That last bit is the rub, of course. Then there are the meds themselves, some of which can actually cause paranoia and aggression. Let’s not forget how movies and video games have become progressively more violent, especially in the last two decades. If I’m not mistaken, Australia and Britain ban a lot of that extremely violent garbage; maybe that adds to the relative lack of mass killings in those countries.

              >>>And keep stupidly believing it’s wholesome and right to own a high powered weapons for self defense.

              When did I say I believe that? You assume a lot based on what little I’ve said.

              >>>I think it’s a debate that will keep going round in circles because unfortunately nobody wants to think the problem through.

              I’m trying to think the whole thing through, the various factors involved, but you’re stalled on the anti-gun rants.

              >>>It’s like talking to a brick wall, with blinkers on, deaf dumb and mute,

              That’s kinda how it feels trying to dialogue with you when you fly off the handle like you did above.

              >>>We will just keep shaking our heads, hands on our hearts, crying for your innocents and young – oh free and brave America.

              Well, thanks, but I’ve kinda moved beyond the international peer-pressure argument of “The whole world doesn’t understand/is laughing at you/shakes it’s head at you… etc.” The world will think what it will, but they do so as outsiders primarily concerned with their own country’s best interest. So they will never love us, just use us and laugh at us behind our backs. That’s the way of the world and no president, no new gun laws, no nothing is ever going to change that.

              • EBS

                Rosemarie my comments weren’t all aimed at you. I apologize if they came across that way. They were intended to address many other commenters, and a particular mentaltity that exists, not just your comments. I agree on a holistic addressing to the issue. We don’t laugh behind Americas back. Contrary, if you read the Sunday morning paper, this school killing was on the front- and it talked about the victims and their heroism- not the gun laws. Our soldiers are dying in a war that isn’t even ours- because Australia has always looked to America as an Allie with common values. No one is laughing. Just frustrated- because children are children- American or Australian or any other nationality. And guns are the weapon of choice.

                • Rosemarie

                  +J.M.J+

                  I guess the “laughing at” bit was based on what I’ve heard whenever the US is rocked by another political sex scandal. “Oh, the French are laughing at us now; they expect *their* leaders to commit adultery!” It just gets to a certain point, when you keep hearing about the rest of the world’s criticism, disdain, contempt, etc. for your country, you just end up saying, “Who cares anymore?” Four years ago the media told us, “Oh, Europeans just luuuuuv Obama! If he becomes our president the world will love us, too!” Well, it hasn’t happened, so maybe it’s time for Americans to get over our need to be loved and accepted.

                  • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

                    Not sure why I should care about the opinions of people who can’t even keep their own countries from going belly-up. The Western European democracies are dead or dying of self-inflicted injuries, and we’re right there with them. And that Norway nutcase could have been stopped much earlier if just ONE person on that island besides the nutcase had had access to a gun. Even the security people at that camp did not have access to guns.

                    The gun issue, to me, is similar to nuclear arms, writ small. I’d love it if nuclear technology and the ability to make it suddenly disappeared somehow, but until it does, the USA would be foolish to dispose of their weapons when countries like Pakistan, China, North Korea, etc. have it. You just make yourself an inviting target.

                  • EBS

                    Im not European. But I don’t think Europeans laugh at America- I think your media tells you they do. I think the entire world is weeping about this. Which is why everyone has an opinion about it. Everyone is saddened at seeing those beautiful children’s faces on TV- grown men are weeping. I have a 5year old and a 1 year old and soon (4weeks away), another one. I cant imagine what those parents are feeling right now. It angers and saddens all at once.
                    And everyone just wants to contribute their “two-cents” so-to-speak, because it’s senseless and preventable. It’s just no one agrees what will work. You have a weak President unfortunately (much like our current Prime Minister), who needs to take clear and decisive leadership. That’s why he was elected after all- to bloody lead. I have my opinion and that opinion is gun control, because it worked after the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996 where 36ppl were killed (took our then Prime Minister John Howard 12 days to put together as an agenda), and most points (not all), passed through parliament. There hasn’t been a massacre style killing since- touch wood. God Bless.

                  • EBS

                    Btw Rosemarie- those who live in glass houses….one word- Silvio Berlusconi.

  • http://Yahoo Paulette

    My hearts and prayers go out to all the families in this time of sorrow. May they find strength in GOD. May GOD bless and keep all the angels he called to heaven safe now………………

  • Joseph

    Turns out that the killer was an anti-theist… just like the other shooters from Columbine up. I wonder if the media would ever have enough guts to headline “Another atheist shooting spree claims the lives of innocent women and children”. Nope… ain’t gonna happen.

    • brian_in_brooklyn

      What’s your source for this, Joseph? And even if he was an “anti-theist,” I’ve heard no discussion of motive–how do you know what motivated him?

  • http://martinkelly.blogspot.com/ Martin

    Well said, Mark.

  • sandy

    Guns are never going to be banned in the United States without a constitutional amendment. Not even Bloomberg wants that. There are countless examples of gun saving lives, stopping home invasions, and murders of other people. Confiscating guns will leave guns in the hands of two groups, the police and the criminals. The criminals will not prey on the police. Why? Because they are armed.

  • ED

    What a big surprise! All the recent comments about guns, and guns, and guns… yeah… okay. Same old discussion and same old arguments. [yawn..z-z-z]

    Tell me… is that REALLY the best reason some of you people can come up with to explain these tragic killings recently?

    If so… it seems like you have a rather myopic view of the whole dark and hopeless situation facing our troubled youth of today who have been *forced* to grow-up in this horrible ‘culture of death’.

    C’mon… you can do better than that… can’t you? Please try…

    In any case, thanks ‘Carl Olson’… I was very glad to see that I’m not the only one (see my earlier post above) who actually feels *this* way during this very sad and tragic time:

    [What I do take exception to are the selective, perhaps even cynical, displays of concern by such groups.

    To be fair, statements such as the one above are media-savvy mirrors of the broader culture and of the deeply engrained double-mindedness our nation has tolerated, then legalized, and now promotes with an irrational fervor.

    Consider that when a man dressed in black comes into a room with unsuspecting children in it and takes their lives by violence and bloodshed, we are shocked, outraged, angered, saddened, confused, and deeply grieved. But when a man dressed in white comes into a room with an unsuspecting child in it and takes that child's life by injecting him with poison, or ripping him to shreds, and removing him from his mother's womb, we are usually one of three things: oblivious, apathetic, or supportive.]

    http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/1814/america_still_has_half_a_soul_for_now.aspx

  • Joseph

    Brian. I can’t tell you now but it will surface once the dust settles. The secular media has to protect that information which is why you haven’t read a report on it yet (if he were a Christian they would have revealed it in all its splendor within hours of the shooting). But it will come out just like it did for Columbine.

    As for motive, who knows? All I can say if from the logical perspective of the atheist belief system the best answer to the question of whether or not to kill innocent people is the question, “Why not?”.

    • Rosemarie

      +J.M.J+

      The news media is reporting that Nancy Lanza and her son attended the local Catholic church:

      http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/he_prayed_preyed_lTNjJcwqMzWxFztFpWNEkN

      Of course, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t an atheist. Lots of parents drag their kids to church against their wills so who knows. I guess everything will come out eventually.

    • brian_in_brooklyn

      Joseph, I feel that such baseless speculation does no good whatsoever and maligns many people who are totally innocent of the blood on this man’s hands. Please reconsider such intemperate remarks.

  • Raul De La Garza III

    Prudence is what is required, with a healthy dose of, ‘its none of my business’. In the coming days, the media will point fingers at just about everything (autism, ‘preppers’, homeschooling, firearms, religion, etc.) but themselves. Allowing emotion to rule may result in further action taken in order to ‘ensure our safety’ at the expense of our freedom. Pray unceasingly.

    • Rosemarie

      +J.M.J+

      Yes, I’m already seeing a lot of talk about the possibility he was on the autism spectrum. Yet autism is not a mental illness, it’s a neurological disorder which would not in itself cause someone to commit mass murder. The killer apparently had another psychological problem that was not properly addressed.

      I have three autistic kids so I’m concerned how this could lead to irrational fear and prejudice against them. People will hear the words “He’s autistic” or “He has Aspergers” and immediately think, “Potential mass-murdering psycho!!!” But as a friend of mine (whose daughter has autism) just posted on Facebook:

      “A spontaneous autistic meltdown because of sensory overload usually involves an autistic person hurting himself. This crime was premeditated mass murder of other people involving planning, strategy, and focused intent. Autism would actually make someone largely incapable of such an act. This guy was seriously sick, but autism has nothing to do with it.”

      I’m also concerned about the homeschooling angle, because I homeschool one of my children. Yet although news reports indicate that the mother taught him at home for a while, he clearly went to high school for at least three years. So we don’t know how long he was homeschooled or why she stopped or anything like that. It would be wrong to try to paint all homeschoolers as potentially dangerous because of this terrible atrocity.

  • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

    I may not have enough information, or some of it may be faulty, but from what I have seen, it sounds like the mother had extremely poor judgment. Even though this young man had mental health issues and regularly played violent video games, she made no secret of her guns and even had him trained in their usage. Sheer stupidity.

    I’m sure the talk is going to simplistically be about “gun control”, but specifically mental health, violent video games, (and especially the combination of the two!), and psychiatric meds need to be the focus here. I would have no problem if guns were heavily restricted from those who have been diagnosed with mental health issues and/or are on psychiatric meds.

    Of course, these same people may just go commit bombings such as OKC if they don’t have guns…anyway the focus should be on the lunatics that pull the trigger.

  • Rosemarie

    +J.M.J+

    Here’s an interesting article from another mother with a mentally ill son:

    I am Adam Lanza’s Mother
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html

    Yeah, I know, Huffpost, but it’s good – it really emphasizes the importance of the mental health question. That’s where the emphasis should be rather than gun control, but you just know the media and politicians will by-and-large go after the guns now rather than try to really help people who suffer from mental illness. Somehow the US always manages to back the wrong horse when it comes to social issues.


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