Oh! Wait! Never Mind. The Cuomos Disapprove of the Pope. Do Over.

In a piece that constitutes a sort of platonic ideal form of Northeast Corridor Elite fatuity, the Cuomo clan delivers their verdict:  Francis is too Catholic and not nearly enough New York.  In other words, it’s exactly what you’d expect from the provincials of the Smart Set.  You really don’t even need to read it.  You know what all the pre-recorded quotes will be.  In fact, here’s a game: write the quotes in the combox *before* you read the piece.

Update: This passage:

Andrew Cuomo is divorced from the mother of his three daughters and lives with his longtime girlfriend, celebrity chef Sandra Lee, in what a consultant to the Vatican’s highest court called “public concubinage.”

…always reminds me of one of the immutable truths uttered by some wise guy: “When you hear an ex-Catholic say, ‘The rational intellect can no longer credit the outworn dogmas of Trinity, Transubtantiation,  Resurrection and the rest of it’ he nearly always means, ‘I’m sleeping with my neighbor’s wife.’”

  • Marthe Lépine

    I am sorry that you, and most of your readers, will not like my comment, but I cannot resist making it this time. As an outsider, I see the Cuomo reaction as another indication of the tendency to see the US as having the right to police the world, as well as eliminating the leaders of countries when they disapprove of the choice (remember Allende and Pinochet?) . Now they decide that the Catholic church is fair game too – when are they going to organize a military coup in order to get a Pope to their liking?

    • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

      I think you are misunderstanding much of the subtext of the article (did you take Mark’s recommendation seriously and comment before reading it?) which is actually very inward looking and NE liberal power complex incestuous. You see, for a certain portion of the US elite Cuomo’s family is worth writing about because they are the people allowed into the rooms that (they believe) matter and are representatives of Catholicism as a whole. They are among the liberal power elite’s token catholics.

      The quality of the commentary ranges from delusional to sclerotic and are an embarrassment for Cardinal Dolan, whom the Cuomo clan apparently likes. Well, you can’t pick your fans, though Dolan probably wishes he could.

    • Charlotte

      Did you actually read what Mark said? Think before you scold.

    • Marye

      No, Martine, I don’t think it’s an indication of that, at all, but you probably don’t have enough detailed information about American politics to understand the joke Mark’s making. I do think it’s an indication of how clueless and self-centered some American Catholics are, in assuming that the Church should reorder its priorities to agree with theirs. Some self-professed Catholics, I should say. “My son went to Catholic school, and so he knows everything there is to know about being Catholic.”

      • Marye

        Sorry, I meant “Marthe,” not “”Martine.” I should finish my coffee before I start typing . . .

    • EBS

      Marthe, unfortunately I agree with you. I understand Mark and many Americans disapprove of alot (not all) of Americas foreign policy. But to arrogantly conclude that the new leader of the “universal” Church is not good enough for America- no wait- North East America to be specific, by a high profile American family because it doesn’t conform to their politics just boggles the mind. We have a staunch Atheist leader here in Australia whom I despise as leader of our nation, but she wouldn’t dare make such arrogant remarks.
      During the Conclave elections, my father and I were discussing who we think should lead the Church, and dad said “it’s about time they elected a Pope from Latin America or outside Europe, it would do wonders for the Church in so many ways”. I suspect many wanted a Pope that could re-energize a zest for the Faith in the Western World along with nurturing the growing Faith in the non-western world. Whatever is good for Christ’s Church. I think our prayers were answered in Pope Francis- his past speaks volumes, and is what is sorely missed since PJP2, but was misunderstood by the MSM in PB16.
      See, I wish we heard this from the US more frequently. It feels as though, from the point of view outside of America, the US is never happy unless the rest of the world conforms to it’s way. Unfortunately America has lost it’s way on so many issues. Needless to say, I like Dolan. But I like Dolan for the US. Not for the Universal Church. With a heavy heart, I feel the US today, is representative of much of what’s wrong with our world, and you can blame your mediocre President for that. Let’s hope the people of America can change this from the grassroots upwards.

      • CathyLouise

        Well, I’m no fan of Obama but I don’t think we can truly blame our mediocre president for the Unites State’s myopic narcisism. The US has been on a steady decline for a very long time. He may be an excellent representative of what’s wrong with the United States, but he’s not solely responsible for it.

        • CathyLouise

          Well, upon re-reading your comment, I think you said what I just said.

    • Mark Shea

      Actually, I like your comment just fine. Yes, his remarks are of a piece with the utopian arrogance that dominates the United States.

      • http://far-above-rubies-and-pearls.blogspot.com/ Alisha

        +1 (I totally agree)

    • Stu

      Charming. Another shotgun Canadian finger-wag.

      • ivan_the_mad

        Charming. Another completely predictable butthurt response.

        • Stu

          Not really. In fact, I’m not even familiar with “butthurt.” Please explain, since you apparently have some knowledge.

          I think madness is trying to extrapolate the actions of Andrew Cuomo onto the entire United States of America. It would be like me assuming that all French Canadiens are crappy singers because I heard Celine Dion perform once. We can criticize the US plenty. In fact, I will probably join you. But enough of the sweeping generalization already every time we seen an individual not in our tribe do something we don’t like.

          • ivan_the_mad

            “But enough of the sweeping generalization already every time we seen an individual not in our tribe do something we don’t like.” Ha! Oh physician, heal thyself.

            • Stu

              Sure. I’ll be happy to entertain examples of my own and change course as necessary. I appreciate the offer on your part.

              • ivan_the_mad

                Uh, ok, if you’re really that oblivious: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2013/03/oh-wait-never-mind-the-cuomos-disapprove-of-the-pope-do-over.html/comment-page-1#comment-155046

                Please, Stu, tell me how your use of the word Canadian is in no way a generalization.

                • Stu

                  It is a generalization. Absolutely. That was my point in making it. People usually only see what they are doing when it is turned around and employed upon them. As I said below,funny though how those who make sweeping generalizations about others get all worked up when people do the same to them.

                  If it makes you feel better, I don’t believe such about all Canadians. I also really enjoy the music of Bare Naked Ladies.

                  • ivan_the_mad

                    Ah, I see. So your response was quite butthurt. Generalizations are ok when you do them as part of a demonstratio ab asino. Got it.

                    • Stu

                      You have delivered in spades. Sorry about your “butthurt,” (whatever that is.)

  • JB

    “write the quotes in the combox *before* you read the piece”:

    “progress”, “women’s ordination”, “gay rights”, “21st century”, “relevant”

  • antigon

    Let’s see. Euphemisms for: worship of the Sacred Hole; support for chemicals to make places not the Sacred Hole its equivalent; & for mass murder; &, properly schooled in support of preceding, stepfords to play priestesses; the need for human labor to pay for preceding with taxes; the need for priests to marry; especially each other; the importance of receiving Communion when in a state of mortal sin; all with particular focus on the greater value of a Wales governorship as compared to…

    Right, not necessary to read it.

  • http://www.lewiscrusade.org John C. Hathaway, OCDS

    “Not pastoral enough”

    • Scott W.

      Yep. Code for “not slothful and lax enough”.

  • Fr. Matthew Palkowski OFM Cap

    The opinions were not unexpected. I have one complaint that bugs me. Could we please make it clear that there are married priests in the Catholic Church, but they are rare in the West. It is a matter of discipline. Could someone please get this across to people?
    Fr M

    • Ed Mechmann

      And the irony is that they think they are so-well informed because they read the NY Times and watch CNN/MSNBC. .

    • Dave P.

      The liberal elite wouldn’t like the Western married priests they meet – almost all converts from Anglicanism or Lutheranism who take Christian orthodoxy seriously.

    • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

      It is quite simple to do, just assemble profiles of all the married catholic priests and send PDFs of that to every major media outfit and ask the bishops to keep it up. Then when somebody makes the mistaken assertion they can no longer do it innocently. The information would be out there and they would have been told.

      The marital status of priests is known, if for no other reason than for medical emergency notification. Everybody has personnel files. This would not be that expensive to do to fix it. Yet it remains unfixed.

  • Will

    Something something women something something the Scandal something something the poor celibacy BAD!

  • John McCormick

    Marthe, I think you are right on with your comments. Mario Cuomo states: “It’s the United States and it’s New York and it’s a different kind of personality.” as if the role of the Pope is to be simply Pope for New York/U.S. and not Pope for the world. It is sad that so many are simply ignorant of U.S. foreign policy and its effects in so many places throughout the world, especially Latin America. But hey, why inform yourself when your living off the benefits of Empire? So the ignorance and the exaltation of the U.S. centric view continues.

  • TheRealAaron

    “Reproductive health”

    (Ok, I read the article. Shucks, my phrase wasn’t there. But seriously, did they already had the article written and just have to go out and find a famous liberal Catholic who would say that stuff? That’s pretty much boilerplate for every story I’ve seen the conclave started. Who writes that and thinks “This is a new and original point of view that hasn’t been covered a thousand times already in the last 5 days”?)

  • Mr W

    That article is funny. Who are these Cuomo people and why is their opinion important?

    • dpt

      Exactly, I thought it was (is?) a parody.

    • joeclark77

      New York’s governor Andrew Cuomo is more or less the only high-profile left-wing politician in America under the age of seventy, except for Obama himself. All the rest of our democrats are leftovers from the sixties who refuse to acknowledge that they can ever get old (e.g. the Clintons). Cuomo will therefore probably be the Democrat nominee for President in 2016, if the nation still exists at that point. If so, he will very likely win.

  • Arnobius of Sicca

    So if the Cuomos dislike the Pope I’d say it’s a good sign that the cardinals selected the right man for the job.

  • Ann

    Yes, but what does his live-in girlfriend Food Network star Sandra Lee think? Inquiring minds want to know!

  • michael

    Marthe, many of us in th US agree with you. May God have mercy on those whom much was given.

  • MaryMargaret

    What was that line in the hilarious Lutheran Satire video? Oh yes, “Please shut your mouth before the angel of death destroys us all!” If Cardinal Dolan had been elected, it might have taken an additional 45 nanoseconds before the Cuomo family would have been “disappointed”.

  • Debra

    Father M,
    I know I’ve tried… But they don’t get it. They lump celibacy in with women’s ordination. When I agree the Pope has the power to set it aside because it is a matter of discipline, not doctrine, the answer is then he can ordain women. They just don’t get it. What I have concluded is that the world, many Catholics included, doesn’t understand the Church, how she works, how she believes, how she thinks, or how she acts. They don’t even want to understand. If they did, they might find truth in it and have to change their own way of life.

    • Fr. Matthew Palkowski OFM Cap

      Dear Debra,
      What I find incomprehensible is, the discussion of married Catholic priests is not hypothetical. There are married Catholic priests. Now, if he wants priests to be able to marry, neither the Catholics nor the Orthodox allow that. One should be able to get a clue when there is something on which we both agree: it has to be something long-standing. Still, the point is that there are today, in our country married Catholic priests.
      Fr M

  • Dustin

    Where, honestly, did they get the idea that Dolan is, doctrinally speaking, on their side? I speak as a great admirer of Cuomo the elder, whose ’84 convention speech will always live in my heart (though I’m too young to have seen it as it happened).

  • http://thecrawfordfamily.net/blog Ken Crawford

    Pre-Read prediction: “I was raised Catholic but…”. Well we kinda got that in the last paragraph, but not a great guess. :(

    But talk about local bias and not seeing the forest for the trees. A humble, saintly Pope who is against gay marriage and women priests is a disappointment, but a brash somewhat cocky one who is against gay marriage and women priests (but just happens to be from New York) would be great? MKay.

  • Bill

    Living here in New Sweden the Cuomos have always been an incredible embarrassment. Andy at least has enough realpolitik sense to stop the hemmorghing of business that his dad aided and abetted, but he’s even more tin-eared than his “I’m personally opposed…” father was on social issues. We’re staring at abortion legislation that rivals Canada, and a gun ban that might lead to open revolt.

    • Will

      I thought New Sweden was Delaware?

      • http://chicagoboyz.net TMLutas

        There are 8 governments in the US with the word “Sweden” in them according to the US Census Bureau. The only one in NY is the Town of Sweden in Monroe County.

        I am a font of government trivia these days.
        http://www.citizenintelligence.org

  • Claire

    Pope Francis is said to have said “May God forgive you for what you have done” to the Cardinals immediately after his election. He was obviously referring to the Cardinals’ failure to seek advice from Governors Cuomo, Congresswoman Pelosi, and Vice President Biden.

  • Tim in Cleveland

    Hopefully there is plenty of talk in that article about clocks and turning them back. Though I thought Benedict XVI had turned the clock back very far, so I don’t see how Pope Francis can turn the clock back any further. And how far can a pope turn the clock back really? Eventually he just comes back to 12.

  • Joachim

    Mary Margaret, I agree, the Cuomos slander Cardinal Dolan by insinuating he would have championed their pet causes had he been elected instead.

    • MaryMargaret

      Joachim, You are absolutely right. They should be ashamed of themselves, but I’m sure they aren’t. They just.don’t.get.it. The face of the Church changes, but the message is the same. And when was New York selected as the center of the universe? I missed that memo.

    • Will

      Ah, but Dolan is in favor of women cardinals, and there is obviously no distinction.

      • Mark Shea

        Actually, he merely noted that women cardinals were not impossible. But in our polarized Church, merely to note that is to “favor” women cardinals and (wink, wink) women priests, is you listen the the urine and vinegar wing of Traddery.

  • Thomas Tucker

    Oh shoot. I expected to read something about the primacy of your own conscience. My bad.

  • Will

    Sigh. He makes me ashamed to be a New Yorker. And agreeing with Catholic teaching on (laundry list of issues) is enough to make someone “conservative”?

  • deiseach

    I’ll take that challenge! Writing notes before reading the article, I forecast:

    Disappointment. More of the same. Conservative. Simplicity and humility good signs, but not enough. Bad on women. Bad on gay rights. Too close to regime in Argentina during the Dirty War (with weaselling about they’re not accusing him of colluding, but – ). Cardinals had chance to move forward and didn’t take it. Hopes that he might permit married priests. Needs to increase role of women in church but not very likely (see bad on women above). Only hope is that this is a ‘caretaker’ papacy and next time for sure we’ll get our first same-sex married transgender single adoptive parent divorced person of colour pope.

    Off to read the column now and see how I did!

  • deiseach

    Yes! I got the “disappointment” in the very first paragraph! And the gay rights, bad on women’s rights, married priests, personally he’s nice but on policy he’s too conservative, etc. etc. etc.

    I missed the “traditionalist” bit and I didn’t see they wanted Timothy Cardinal Dolan for pope. I can only say I half-wish that had happened, because I don’t think he’d do what they wanted.

    And they never said anything about electing non-European/black/person of colour for pope. Tsk, tsk!

    However, I’ll wait and see how our new pope turns out before thinking it’s a bad thing the cardinals didn’t run a New York election campaign, okay?

  • frenchcookingmama

    “Blah blah no womyn priests blah blah blah no gay marriage. This is the 21st century. Pick someone who will give it to us!”

  • Advocate

    Thank you, Your Holiness, but we can find Hell just fine without the assistance of clergy.

  • Jack Swan

    Yes, the latest pronouncement ex cathedra by the self-appointed supreme pontiffs of the Church of Self, spoken from the throne of the Cathedral of Moloch. A better example could not be found of the narcissistic, self-delusional exhibitionism of ignorance of the poorly-informed and spiritually dead modern politician. Sin makes you stupid, and leads you to display that stupidity to everyone.

    • Advocate

      I believe they call it the ME-gesterium.

  • Julia

    “After twelve years of Catholic education, and being one of the leading Catholic families in America it is clear that the College of Cardinals is dangerously out of touch with the needs of New York Catholics.”

    How close was I?

    I was watching CNN coverage (in the lockerroom at the gym) with a 20 minute piece on why women want to be ordained. At the very end, they admitted that 75% of “priestesses” are from the US, even though the US is only six percent of Catholics worldwide. How provincial and self-obsessed can you get?

    • Al

      The dark side of American Exceptionalism.

  • Rock

    The Cuomos aren’t going to be happy about his ecclesiology… Turns out its Catholic:

    “The Christian sees the Church as the Body of Christ, as the vessel that guards with absolute integrity the deposit of faith, as the faithful Spouse who communicates without addition or subtraction all that Christ entrusted…. The Church as a fully “sanctified” reality and capable of receiving and of comunicating – without error or defect, from its own poverty and even with its own sins –the full sanctity of God, is not a “complement” or an “institutional addition” to Jesus Christ, but a full participation of his Incarnation, of His Life, of His Passion, death and Resurrection…. In defending its purity, its indefectibility, its sanctity as the bride, the Church is defending the “place” through which the gift of the life of God passes on to the world and the gift of the life of the world to God. This gift – the fullest expression of which is the Eucharist –is not another gift among ourselves but the supreme gift of the most intimate life of the Trinity that poured forth for the life of the world and the life of the world assumed by the Son that is offered to the Father.” English: http://jmgarciaiii.blogspot.com/search?q=bergoglio Original Spanish: http://www.arzbaires.org.ar/inicio/homilias/homilias2008.htm#49%BACongresoEucar%EDsticoInternacional

  • http://www.dariasockey.blogspot.com Daria Sockey

    Haven’t read it yet. Let’s see….”While we applaud his concern for the social justice and love for the poor, blah, blah, sex, blah blah, women blah, blah, sex, blah blah…

  • http://www.patheos.com Amy

    This interview with Piers Morgan and Penn Jillete on Feb 28 2013 was brought to my attention a few days ago. Perhaps some have seen this. Penn defends the Pope and the traditions of the church.. I love how God uses people to teach.
    http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/03/07/atheist-penn-jillette-defends-the-pope-and-catholic-orthodoxy/

    When Catholics chastise the Holy Father, they really are speaking to Jesus Christ, saying “No! You MUST come to MY/OUR level” To be Catholic, one has to accept the whole package!
    God gave us another great Vicar of Christ. Bless you, Pope Francis!

    • http://davidgriffey.blogspot.com/ Dave G.

      “When Catholics chastise the Holy Father, they really are speaking to Jesus Christ”

      By chastise you don’t mean criticize, correct?

      • http://www.patheos.com Amy

        harangue, berate, lecture, scold, tell off, tirade…all good synonyms…yes chastise.

  • CathyLouise

    I’ll play! “While Pope Francis seems to be a good man, he just isn’t aware of the realities of modern life.” There’ll also be, “If I were Pope, I would, on the first day, allow women priests and order the priests to perform homosexual marriages . I just don’t see Pope Francis ever doing that, which is a shame and further proof he’s not in touch with reality.” Finally, I predict something about, “Pope Francis simply won’t acknowledge the right of women to have abortions – he obviously believes they are second class citizens because the ability to have an abortion must be condoned.” Off I go to see how I did.

    • MaryMargaret

      You did pretty good!

  • Michael

    I would _love_ to hear the conversation between ++Dolan and the Cuomos after a few beers…

  • Mike

    “doesn’t appeal to young people”
    “out of touch with the now”
    “a throw-back to a by-gone era people can’t relate to”
    “a progressive on the brink of changing the face of the institution”
    “a simple man who would rebuke those who say the poor needn’t any help”

    I could go on and on and on.

  • http://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/ Zippy

    College of Cardinals elects a Catholic to be the next Pope. Women, minorities hit hardest.

    • Jude K

      Ha! Good one. I could see the Fishwrap putting that in a huge headline font.

    • LaVallette

      What are these “catholics”, and not just the Cuomos, going to say to Jesus, when they encounter Him face to face: “We knew better than you what was good for your Church”?.

      And Zippy (March 16, 2013 at 10:34 am): You forgot the children (who are not aborted for their own sake!)

  • Hezekiah Garrett

    Say what you wish, Stu, but at least Canadiens aren’t identified by their revolting nature.

    FC3, USN

    • Marthe Lépine

      Thank you, Hez…

    • Stu

      No, they do it as individuals just like everyone else.

      Funny though how those who make sweeping generalizations about others get all worked up when people do the same to them.

  • Dave P.

    Gov. Cuomo and his concubine are more than welcome to join the Episcopalians, or ask the Rev. Mary Ramerman to start a new congregation in Albany.

  • Kevin M.

    I imagine Mario and Andrew and all their Kennedy kin will experience inestimable anguish in Purgatory when they fully realize how many other Mozarts and Einsteins who were never born because of abortion. Awaiting them is the deep, deep sorrow as they realize their complicity in the awesome human potential that never was. Lord have mercy!

  • The True Will

    But they could just as easily invoke “all the Mansons and Gacys who were never born”. Come on, we need to do better than that.

    • Beccolina

      They often do. One pro-abortion claim I’ve run across is how it lowers the crime rate (based on a correlation between abortion being legalized x number of years ago and now, when those children would be adults, lo, the crime rate is lower).

      • Al

        Of course, knowing what study that’s from, one may as well say that lining up all young men and killing them by firing squad will also reduce the crime rate. That may be true, but is also morally reprehensible.


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