What to Expect from the Faithful

Pretty much this:

Number me with the rank and file who are delighted at our new Holy Father. A beautiful start to his papacy.

At the end of the day we are looking at what a reader pointed out:

A Jesuit Pope named Francis, who takes the bus to work, lives in a small apartment, condemns the greed of western capitalism, fights for human rights, is for traditional marriage, is against abortion and the death penalty, and believes that all men and women are created in the image of God.

In short, a Catholic. And that is enough to earn the hatred of worldly factionalists and the love of the people of God.

  • Chris-2-4

    This just in, Pontiffissimo Francisco Primo is still Pope.
    Reposted.

  • James H, London

    Poor guy. He looks a little bemused by all the attention!

  • ivan_the_mad

    That’s great stuff! He’s an admirable man!

  • pgh mama

    My opinion doesn’t mean much, but I am thrilled! Viva il Papa!

  • Ivan K

    Gosh, if only those evil traddies could have as much faith as Monsignor Shea and his flock, the world would be a much better place. I feel spiritually wealthy now that I have been gifted with this diamond of charity and wisdom.

  • vox borealis

    I’m actually a little surprised that someone as old as Francis was elected. My gut told me the Cardinals would aim for someone a little younger…but then, my gut is often wrong!

    • Scott W.

      Actually, it was my understanding that many chaffed under the unusually long reign of JPII and there has been a kind of “let’s not do that again” attitude at the Vatican.

      • vox borealis

        True, but there was some buzz that after Benedict XVI abdicated for his stated reason, a lack of vigor, the conclave might go with someone a tad younger.

  • thomas tucker

    Nice description of the guy. Too bad that will never work. You know what happened to Jesus.

  • IB Bill

    The whole thing is so profoundly joyful. This was my first “interregnum” since my conversion. I started crying when I saw the white smoke.

  • Rosemarie

    +J.M.J+

    God bless him! What a moment of grace, for the Church and for all people of good will. Viva il Papa!

  • Not Impressed

    And what exactly should we expect from Mark Shea, who us supposedly anti-torture but has just now endorsed a Pope who is at least as complicit in torture (in Argentina’s Dirty War) as George W. Bush and Dick Cheney were? It’s all there in the Wikipedia article, and the Spanish-language press.

    Your beloved Pope Frankie was an enabler and supporter of the vicious, torturing right-wing Argentine military junta. How does that make you feel now?

    • Mark Shea

      It makes me feel as though some people will believe any dirt they can to shore up their prejudices. You, for instance. Me: I haven’t been searching for dirt, but figure somebody somewhere will do the job, sort of the like Shocking Revelation[TM] that Ratzinger was a Nazi. I expect that the story is lot more pedestrian and Francis is not the Devil in Human Form you are so eager to believe he is.

      • Not Impressed

        I always thought calling Mr. Ratzinger a Nazi was over-the-top and pretty weak sauce since he was freaking 16 years old at the time and not joining the Nazi Youth was a death wish, basically seeking martyrdom as a teenager. It’s perfectly human that he didn’t wish for that.

        OTOH, Mr. Bergoglio was not only an adult but in a position of clerical power when he collaberated with Fascists and handed over people to be tortured and executed. Pretty stark difference, Mark.

        • Mark Shea

          I’m not seeing evidence of “collaboration” so far. Documentation?

        • Javier

          Not Impressed,
          there were no Fascist dictators during the 70′s in Argentina. It was a plain anticommunist dictatorship in the home front, that at the same time had very friendly commercial relations with the USSR.
          Regarding Bergoglio’s alleged crimes: the crimes commited by the dictactorship (not by the communist terrorists) during that period do not prescribe and are not subjected to any amnesty. Anyone suspected of collaborating can be investigated and prosecuted. In fact lots of people are currently being prosecuted, and most of the times they are convicted (sometimes on mere hearsay). Bergoglio has lived in Argentina since the dictatorship ended en 1983. He never tried to escape justice. He never tried to hide. He has always been in plain view. He is donwright hated by our current government. And still he has never been prosecuted for those alleged crimes. But we are suppossed to believe you and a Wikipedia article?. Give us a break.

          Javier
          Argentina

          • Rosemarie

            +J.M.J+

            Thank you, Javier, and congratulations!

          • Not Impressed

            It was Fascist. Just because you may have favored it because it was “anti-Communist” doesn’t make it not Fascist. In fact, conducting campaigns of terror and torture in the name of “anti-Communism” is pretty typical of Fascist governments.

            • ivan_the_mad

              I’m not impressed with your inability to use terms accurately.

            • http://irenist.blogspot.com/ Irenist

              It was a military dictatorship guilty of horrific human rights abuses. But not “fascist” per se, although I can see why the shorthand is tempting.

            • Javier

              Do you have any idea what “fascism” means?. A given regime has to have certain economic and social features to be fascist. It has to be economically corporatist and dirigist, and it has to have a wide appeal to the masses, resorting to frequent political mass rallies (sort of social liturgies). The Argentinian dictatorship lacked both.
              And if what I did is very important for you to know, I will tell you: I turned 17 one month before the dictatorship fell in 1983, so I spent the dictatorship in High School. Maybe that makes me a fascist of a war criminal, too.

            • Ye Olde Statistician

              Actually, no. “Fascist” refers to a specific sort of national socialism, specifically one in which the various industries are “rationalized” under government “syndicates” with prices and market shares allocated by these boards. The image of the fasces is that the bundle of sticks is stronger than the individual, just as the individual fingers (falanges) are stronger when bundled into a first.

    • Susan

      No, sorry, it’s not “all there in the Wikipedia article.” There is the report on the ACCUSATION. I am guessing that unlike me, you are not familiar with this kind of constant and vicious attack on faithful Catholics by those leftists in Latin America incensed that the vicious Marxist violent ideology was responded to by people like John Paul II and Bertoglio, who TRULY love the poor. Unable to get at them any other way than by slander and libel, they resort to drive-by character assassination on the thinnest of pretexts. I have seen it too often; the “journalists” know that once the lies are in the press, even when the truth comes out later, the damage is done. And so ALL the information AGAINST that ludicrous view that he was “an enable and supporter of the vicious, torturing right-wing” etc etc etc. is buried. Luckily some of it got into both the Wikipedia article and the sources it drew from.
      Reminds me of Pius XII, whom Jews have REPEATEDLY praised for his work during World War II, whom the Israeli government and even EDITORIALS IN THE NY TIMES praised, yet because of a libelous play written by a rabid German anti-Catholic, a work of FICTION, we had to spend years and years trying to undo the damage (not finally undone until the Vatican released it records). And people wonder why we rail against works of fiction like “The Da Vinci Code,” which caused idiots in Belgium to lock up their Bishops, take their cell phones, and DRILL INTO SARCOPHAGI looking for “secret documents” and where they found precisely NOTHING.
      Seriously, dude, a Pope “complicit in torture?” Step away from the bong.
      Yes, I should have ignored the troll and not fed him. Mea culpa.

      • Mark Shea

        Yeah. I’m afraid the sheer breathless eagerness with whin NI wrote as judge, jury and executioner, based on a lefty English rag, Wikipedia(!), and some vague reference to Spanish language sources is not enough to move me to take up the pitchfork and torch that NI wants me to wave.

        It’s of course quite possible thaat he really has been a moral failure. God knows enough bishops and popes have been. But I need a bit more to go on than an anonymous comboxer writing in a tone of High Moral Dudgeon for a guilty verdict.

        • http://irenist.blogspot.com/ Irenist

          On the “Wikipedia(!)” topic: Millions of people have read/are going to read that article as their first source on what the deal is with this new fellow. It might feel like Canute fighting the sea, but I honestly do believe that the best solution to tendentious edits on Wikipedia is truthful, carefully sourced edits on Wikipedia. Like it or not, it’s where people are getting their information. Anyone with enough time to comment around here has enough time to edit Wikipedia now and again and try to help improve it. (Sorry. End rant.)

      • http://irenist.blogspot.com/ Irenist

        Luckily some of it got into both the Wikipedia article and the sources it drew from.

        Happy someone liked my handiwork getting those AP quotes into Wikipedia!

        “His intervention likely saved their lives” was sadly missing from the Wikipedia article before I started editing. It seems like . . . kind of an important aspect of the story?

    • http://irenist.blogspot.com/ Irenist

      From the Associated Press, which seems to be the source for every non-AP story on this floating around right now, with my italics:

      At least two cases directly involved Bergoglio. One examined the torture of two of his Jesuit priests – Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics – who were kidnapped in 1976 from the slums where they advocated liberation theology. Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work. Jalics refused to discuss it after moving into seclusion in a German monastery.

      Both men were freed after Bergoglio took extraordinary, behind-the-scenes action to save them – including persuading dictator Jorge Videla’s family priest to call in sick so that he could say Mass in the junta leader’s home, where he privately appealed for mercy. His intervention likely saved their lives, but Bergoglio never shared the details until [his authorized biographer Sergio] Rubin interviewed him for the 2010 biography.

      Bergoglio – who ran Argentina’s Jesuit order during the dictatorship – told Rubin that he regularly hid people on church property during the dictatorship, and once gave his identity papers to a man with similar features, enabling him to escape across the border.

      The upshot (from the hip), IMHO: He seems to have perhaps buckled under pressure from a tyrannical regime at times. So did the first pope–thrice before the cock crowed, IIRC. But like St. Peter, Pope Francis seems to have found his courage–certainly to have done far braver things than I’d have done in his place, I’m afraid. So he’s a fellow sinner, but he’s no Borgia and he’s no “fascist.”

      Here’s a reprint of the AP article I’m quoting: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/pope-francis-humble-leader-cooks-meals-takes-bus-work-article-1.1287623

      • Not Impressed

        So he collaborated with Fascist torturers, but that’s OK cause argle bargle PETER BIBLE!

        You wouldn’t give this kind of benefit of the doubt to Dick Cheney.

        • http://irenist.blogspot.com/ Irenist

          What part of “he regularly hid people on church property during the dictatorship, and once gave his identity papers to a man with similar features, enabling him to escape across the border,” reads like collaboration to you?

          (Also, the Argentine junta was more “authoritarian” than “fascist,” fwiw.)

        • Ivan K

          The only torturers with whom Pope Francis collaborated are the misguided fools commonly known as “charismatics” at whose mass he assisted while Archbishop of Buenos Aires. Having survived such “eucharistic celebrations,” I can tell you that I would have preferred being waterboarded, but this does nothing to warrant your claims. Your evidence that there was collaboration with the more sinister torturers seems to be: he did not commit seppuku in Argentina in the 1970′s, therefore he’s responsible for whatever might have happened at that time. Not impressive.

          • Not Impressed

            Isn’t it kind of interesting to you that he has no problems speaking out against the current Argentine government’s position on gay marriage, but couldn’t find it within himself to condemn the 1970s and early 1980s Argentine government on such a small matter like, oh, I don’t know, TORTURE?

            • Ivan K

              “Isn’t it kind of interesting to you that he has no problems speaking out against the current Argentine government’s position on gay marriage …”

              Ah yes, the holy of holies.

            • http://irenist.blogspot.com/ Irenist

              How many Argentine refugees did you hide and/or give away your official government ID to back in the day, NI? Pope Francis took real risks.

            • Javier

              Well, maybe, just maybe, he thought it was not his duty to speak against torture. After all, Jesus did not speak against the Roman military ocupation of Israel. In fact, he praised a Centurion, a professional soldier of the army who was oppressing his people. One of his Apostles, Mathew, was a former tax collector for that regime. And there was that episode of the coin with the face of the Cesar. So maybe Catholicism is not a straightforward Humanism. Maybe it is something different. The founder, in His Own Words, did not come to earth to bring peace, but a sword. And the Jews of that time, when they were given the chance, chose Barrabas over Jesus. And Barrabas was a freedom fighter against the Roman ocupation. But Mons. Bergoglio is a follower of Jesus, not of Barrabas.

              Javier

              • Molly

                Have learned more from you in the last ten minutes Javier than from newscasters for the past ten hours. Thanks for the info!

        • http://irenist.blogspot.com/ Irenist

          I should concede, btw, Not Impressed, that:
          I am glad you’re here keeping us honest. And you’re right that I wouldn’t give that kind of benefit of the doubt to Dick Cheney. So while I think you’re off base on this one, I’m grateful for the spur to rueful reflection.

          • Cinlef

            If it turns out Cheney had been hiding Afghans on Haliburton property to protect them from being tortured I will public recant any number of harsh things I’ve said about him, in ashes and a sackcloth in Dominion Square

        • j. blum

          Would you give the benefit of the doubt to Dick Cheney, Not Impressed?

  • Not Impressed

    Erik Erickson, among other American Conservatives, are already gleefuly tweeting that the fact he handed people over to the right-wing Argentina junta makes them looooove the new Pope.

    How does that make you feel again, Mark?

    • Javier

      Do us all a favor,
      hand all the hard evidence you have on Bergoglio’s crimes to the Argentinian judiciary, so they can prosecute him. They haven’t found anything useful in that regard for the last 30 years.

      Javier

    • Ivan K

      A gleeful tweet? That is very solid evidence! I am no longer skeptical. The new pope is a monster!

      On the bright side, gleeful tweets like yourself giving some comfort to evil traddies like myself who have been despairing all afternoon. Thank you.

    • http://irenist.blogspot.com/ Irenist

      Just to be clear, NI, is this line from the AP report

      effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work.

      your sole source for your “collaboration” claim? Because while the AP report does say that he did not protect the two Jesuits in question by endorsing their Marxist-tinged preaching of Liberation Theology to the poor, it does say that he subsequently took extraordinary personal steps to get them freed and save their lives. Given John Paul II’s concerns about Marxist theological currents in Latin America at that time, and given the strident anti-communism of the Southern Cone juntas, it might seem like the future Pope Francis found a way to rescue the Jesuits that was both more prudent than endorsing their heretical antics, and had the not-inconsiderable virtue of allowing him to avoid the sin of publicly embracing Marxian heterodoxy himself. Do you have something else?

    • Javier

      One more thing: the main accuser of Mons. Bergoglio is Horacio Verbitsky, nicknamed “El Perro” (The Dog). During the 70s he was a member of Montoneros, a left nationalist revolutionary army who tried to seize control of the country by force (not from the dictatorship, mind you, but from the legally elected peronist government).

  • Jeff T.

    Yes, a Catholic. He seems like a man who will be impossible to categorize. Liberal? Conservative? Nope, Catholic. How rare for a man of this stature to live so Catholic.

  • midwestlady

    Wow. What a mess. I don’t think that all this junta stuff is at all what to expect of average Catholics. I think that they’re probably saying, “looks like a nice guy, DUH, burp.”
    ROFLOL.
    Here’s hoping he sees the big picture and cooperates with God so we get where we’re going without a lot of costly detours!

  • Obpoet

    It is almost like he has read the CCC or something. Strange.

    • midwestlady

      Or the Bible. Gulp.

      • Thomas Tucker

        Oh, come on, don’t be ridiculous.


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