Comments on: Citizenship and Submission

By: emmaculate

emmaculate — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:08:00 +0000

Anonymous: It depends what you mean by ‘integrate’. As far as I can tell, Leila M has broken no French law at all, and as an individual she poses a threat to no French citizen – only to some vague and contestable concept of ‘French culture’. I’d argue that the problem stems from the (arbitrary) cultural opposition made between ‘France’ and ‘Islam’. If the state interprets the law in such a way as to exclude people like Leila M, then it is forcing many Muslims to make an either/or choice that they would and should not have to.Setting up cultural ‘tests’ that non-natives must pass is a vintage, colonial-era technique to belittle them or deny them the same rights that the natives have. Either renounce your culture and join us, or keep your attachment to it and remain part of a society that is excluded and inferior. It instantly makes me think of the “grandfather clause”. Zeynab, was your reference to France as a socialIST democracy intentional?

By: Zeynab

Zeynab — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 04:18:00 +0000

anonymous, the problem with “assimilation” is that it requires the abandonment of an immigrant’s own traditions and cultural practices, which is insensitive at least. If France guarantees freedom of religion, then how can they turn away a woman because of how she practices her religion?Your comments suggest that France really “belongs” to the “true French” (those you say are not immigrants or French citizens of X ancestry), instead of France belonging to all of its citizens, including those who are other other ethnicities and immigrants. This is not acceptable in a socialist democracy: a country should belong to ALL its peoples, not just the white, non-Muslim ones.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 03:09:00 +0000

Colonization= The process by which people demand conformity to their group’s ideas and values in a territory ruled by others.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 03:00:00 +0000

emmaculate, don’t you believe that it should be the immigrants to integrate into the french society, not the other way around? that should answer your questions about what is french culture.

By: emmaculate

emmaculate — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:33:00 +0000

Anonymous: “What about respecting French culture?”What is French culture? Don’t the estimated 3.5 – 5 million Muslims who live legally in France form and express part of it, in all their diversity? If I eat at McDonalds or take no interest in national politics, am I disrespecting French culture? Should I be deported?Moreover, there should be no legal basis for refusing someone citizenship for cultural reasons. French law is very clear about this:”Nobody should be afraid about their opinions, even religious ones, so long as their expression does not trouble public order as established by the law.” (Human Rights Declaration 1789, now Article 10 of the Constitution.)The judgment on Leila M. was that her behavior and appearance contravened this article – in other words, by her beliefs and (in)actions, she represented a danger to “public order”. Clearly, Leila is a danger to no-one except, arguably, herself; but this judgment clearly considers that she represents a symbolic threat to “public order” in the form of what the anonymous poster here calls “French culture”. In a French context, Islamophobia is not only about religion but also race, history, globalization, immigration and urbanization. For instance, polls show that the French have been by and large supportive of Kosovan and Palestinian freedom fighters, and opposition to the Iraqi war was almost universal. Yet the incessant media portrayal of France’s own Muslims is that they are poor, uneducated, under-employed, indifferent to the law, violent, increasingly numerous, and susceptible to extremist proselytizing. The originality of the Leila M judgment is that, by representing her as an alien threat to public order, the state can deny her citizenship, which means she is not eligible for protection under the Constitution, which “guarantees equality of all citizens before the law, without making a distinction according to origins, race or religion. It respects all beliefs.”

By: Sakina

Sakina — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:17:00 +0000

Their reasoning would also mean that any sexist man (or woman) does not deserve to be a French citizen, and anyone who engages in a total power exchange BDSM relationship doesn’t belong either. also anyone antisocial or anyone with a mental disease that doesn’t allow them to leave their house.Their forced secularism is just as bad as this imagined threat of forced Islamic fundamentalism. I have no problem with the separation of church and state, but I do have a problem with the state controlling the church, which is what France is and has been doing when it comes to how they deal with Muslim women.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:30:00 +0000

What about respecting French culture?

By: Rawi

Rawi — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:28:00 +0000

“she lives almost as a recluse, isolated from French society”That should mean that social recluses who barely hang out with other people deserve to lose their citizenship as well? The French government has seriously lost its mind. I mean, at least come up with a better argument!?

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:18:00 +0000

What about the woman not integrating into French society? Isn’t that racist, Westernophobic AND France-o-phobic?

By: matttbastard

matttbastard — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:28:00 +0000

This just sounds like plain Islamophobia to me. The idea that she hasn’t “assimilated enough” is a racist and Islamaphobic one.Yeah, that’s how I saw it, too. Thanks for the pick-up, btw–I am, as I mentioned to Fatemeh, honoured.- mb