<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: BBC vs the LA Times: Who did it better?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/</link>
	<description>Looking at Muslim women in the media and pop culture</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:36:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shame on You: Shame Cartoons at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/#comment-1901</link>
		<dc:creator>Shame on You: Shame Cartoons at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=810#comment-1901</guid>
		<description>[...] and women had a right to dress as they pleased (read more about the study in Faith’s post here and about the “Respect yourself” campaign against sexual harassment in Egypt [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and women had a right to dress as they pleased (read more about the study in Faith’s post here and about the “Respect yourself” campaign against sexual harassment in Egypt [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BBC looks at sexual harassment in Egypt but falls flat &#171; Muslimnista</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/#comment-1902</link>
		<dc:creator>BBC looks at sexual harassment in Egypt but falls flat &#171; Muslimnista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=810#comment-1902</guid>
		<description>[...] posted at Muslimah Media Watch Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Loden [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] posted at Muslimah Media Watch Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Loden [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shame on You: Shame Cartoons &#171; Muslimah Media Watch</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/#comment-1897</link>
		<dc:creator>Shame on You: Shame Cartoons &#171; Muslimah Media Watch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=810#comment-1897</guid>
		<description>[...] and women had a right to dress as they pleased (read more about the study in Faith&#8217;s post here and about the &#8220;Respect yourself&#8221; campaign against sexual harassment in Egypt [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and women had a right to dress as they pleased (read more about the study in Faith&#8217;s post here and about the &#8220;Respect yourself&#8221; campaign against sexual harassment in Egypt [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SHAME ON YOU: SHAME CARTOONS &#171; BASIC FACTS ABOUT ISLAM</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/#comment-1896</link>
		<dc:creator>SHAME ON YOU: SHAME CARTOONS &#171; BASIC FACTS ABOUT ISLAM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=810#comment-1896</guid>
		<description>[...] and women had a right to dress as they pleased (read more about the study in Faith’s post here and about the“Respect yourself” campaign against sexual harassment in [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and women had a right to dress as they pleased (read more about the study in Faith’s post here and about the“Respect yourself” campaign against sexual harassment in [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: forsoothsayer</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/#comment-1904</link>
		<dc:creator>forsoothsayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 09:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=810#comment-1904</guid>
		<description>I agree with every word Willow said...except i place more blame on these disenfranchised men. Just because they are bullied and kicked, does not mean they must bully and kick us. It is not OK.
A few years ago I would have made the same analysis as the author.
&quot;All of the stories reinforced the image of the oppressed Muslim woman who is helpless. It also reinforces the image of the aggressive, misogynist and violent Muslim man.&quot; I hope you&#039;re aware that everyone is harassed here, not just Muslim women. In fact, Christian women are harassed even more because our revealed hair makes everyone think we are loose. Also, the harassers aren&#039;t all Muslim either. The point that Willow made stands: the harassment is JUST SO BAD that it bears no comparison to anything that is going on in the Western world. And there&#039;s so little we women can do, so very little. I am so very, very tired of crossing the street and wearing my ipod to avoid the vile whispers of these men who lean in. I&#039;m so tired of feeling unsafe. I&#039;m so tired of men exposing themselves to me. I&#039;m tired of them lecturing me about being immodest, de rigeur in Ramadan. If it wasn&#039;t so unbelievably pervasive and everywhere and all the time, I could venture a comparison. But I&#039;ve been and lived in several places and, yes, western gender norms ARE better than the ones in the Arab world. I don&#039;t even see how the two can be compared. Oh, the media tells you you have to be thin? How tragic. Try being groped on your way to work. Or not leaving your house. Or being beaten by your husband without any legal recourse. These are problems. Burying our head in the sand is played out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with every word Willow said&#8230;except i place more blame on these disenfranchised men. Just because they are bullied and kicked, does not mean they must bully and kick us. It is not OK.<br />
A few years ago I would have made the same analysis as the author.<br />
&#8220;All of the stories reinforced the image of the oppressed Muslim woman who is helpless. It also reinforces the image of the aggressive, misogynist and violent Muslim man.&#8221; I hope you&#8217;re aware that everyone is harassed here, not just Muslim women. In fact, Christian women are harassed even more because our revealed hair makes everyone think we are loose. Also, the harassers aren&#8217;t all Muslim either. The point that Willow made stands: the harassment is JUST SO BAD that it bears no comparison to anything that is going on in the Western world. And there&#8217;s so little we women can do, so very little. I am so very, very tired of crossing the street and wearing my ipod to avoid the vile whispers of these men who lean in. I&#8217;m so tired of feeling unsafe. I&#8217;m so tired of men exposing themselves to me. I&#8217;m tired of them lecturing me about being immodest, de rigeur in Ramadan. If it wasn&#8217;t so unbelievably pervasive and everywhere and all the time, I could venture a comparison. But I&#8217;ve been and lived in several places and, yes, western gender norms ARE better than the ones in the Arab world. I don&#8217;t even see how the two can be compared. Oh, the media tells you you have to be thin? How tragic. Try being groped on your way to work. Or not leaving your house. Or being beaten by your husband without any legal recourse. These are problems. Burying our head in the sand is played out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Willow</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/#comment-1906</link>
		<dc:creator>Willow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=810#comment-1906</guid>
		<description>But they don&#039;t shape their own media/culture/religion. That&#039;s the whole point. It&#039;s a dictatorship. Every aspect of life is regulated by the government, from what you can eat to what you can drive to what you can say to who you can associate with. It even controls what religion you can be, and the subsequent laws by which you must live. (It&#039;s illegal to be an atheist, a Baha&#039;i, or a Hindu--you can pick from one of the three Abrahamic religions and that&#039;s it.) The reason the fundamentalists are so popular is because they&#039;ve discovered that religion is the aspect of life over which the government&#039;s control is weakest--but it&#039;s still control.

In other countries, men of all races and social categories harass women when and if they can get away with it. It&#039;s not systematized and constant the way it is in Egypt. When I&#039;m there I get hissed at or propositioned literally every 50 feet. Women complain about men masturbating next to them on the subway. We&#039;re not talking about occasional catcalling here, we&#039;re talking about an institution. VERY different from casual harassment in the rest of the world. We can&#039;t just blame it on patriarchy because it is much, much more complicated than that.

The parallel I drew between the pressures faced by African American men here and Egyptian men in Egypt is largely psychological--obviously their histories and unique situations are very different. But the level of disenfranchisement and the immense pressure that places on them has, I think, emotional similarities. They seem to complain about similar stresses and feelings of being rejected and pushed out by the mainstream establishment. But in Egypt there&#039;s the added pressure of sexual oppression and religious expectation. (No matter what your gender, I think being forced into celibacy until you&#039;re 35--not just celibacy, but strict social separation from the opposite sex--is oppressive.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But they don&#8217;t shape their own media/culture/religion. That&#8217;s the whole point. It&#8217;s a dictatorship. Every aspect of life is regulated by the government, from what you can eat to what you can drive to what you can say to who you can associate with. It even controls what religion you can be, and the subsequent laws by which you must live. (It&#8217;s illegal to be an atheist, a Baha&#8217;i, or a Hindu&#8211;you can pick from one of the three Abrahamic religions and that&#8217;s it.) The reason the fundamentalists are so popular is because they&#8217;ve discovered that religion is the aspect of life over which the government&#8217;s control is weakest&#8211;but it&#8217;s still control.</p>
<p>In other countries, men of all races and social categories harass women when and if they can get away with it. It&#8217;s not systematized and constant the way it is in Egypt. When I&#8217;m there I get hissed at or propositioned literally every 50 feet. Women complain about men masturbating next to them on the subway. We&#8217;re not talking about occasional catcalling here, we&#8217;re talking about an institution. VERY different from casual harassment in the rest of the world. We can&#8217;t just blame it on patriarchy because it is much, much more complicated than that.</p>
<p>The parallel I drew between the pressures faced by African American men here and Egyptian men in Egypt is largely psychological&#8211;obviously their histories and unique situations are very different. But the level of disenfranchisement and the immense pressure that places on them has, I think, emotional similarities. They seem to complain about similar stresses and feelings of being rejected and pushed out by the mainstream establishment. But in Egypt there&#8217;s the added pressure of sexual oppression and religious expectation. (No matter what your gender, I think being forced into celibacy until you&#8217;re 35&#8211;not just celibacy, but strict social separation from the opposite sex&#8211;is oppressive.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fatemeh</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/#comment-1905</link>
		<dc:creator>Fatemeh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 01:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=810#comment-1905</guid>
		<description>Willow, you make some great points.

But I don&#039;t think your comparison of Egyptian men to African-American men is apt; Egyptian men are not a minority group in Egypt. They are mainstream society, and they shape their own media/culture/religions. In the U.S., black men are not the majority and are placed outside of mainstream culture/media/etc. by the majority.

Your point about poverty is a good one, but again the comparison between Egyptians and African-Americans doesn&#039;t work. Plenty of rich American men (of any race) harass women. And men of all ethnicities harass women despite their income level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Willow, you make some great points.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t think your comparison of Egyptian men to African-American men is apt; Egyptian men are not a minority group in Egypt. They are mainstream society, and they shape their own media/culture/religions. In the U.S., black men are not the majority and are placed outside of mainstream culture/media/etc. by the majority.</p>
<p>Your point about poverty is a good one, but again the comparison between Egyptians and African-Americans doesn&#8217;t work. Plenty of rich American men (of any race) harass women. And men of all ethnicities harass women despite their income level.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Willow</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/#comment-1903</link>
		<dc:creator>Willow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=810#comment-1903</guid>
		<description>I actually think interviewing regular women probably provides a clearer picture of what is going on in Egypt than interviewing activists. The fact of the matter is that there is very little anti-harassment activism in Egypt today. Most of the onus is placed on women--to dress more conservatively, not chat on the internet, etc etc. Onus, but not blame...the reigning philosophy is that women are not at fault, but that men are uncontrollable. People think that by encouraging women to become more conservative, they are encouraging them to protect themselves. Men are seen as ravening beasts until they are civilized by marriage. The ads that encourage women to veil (you&#039;re candy, you&#039;re meat) portray men in an even more unflattering light--as disgusting carrion flies, slinking alley cats, satanic seducers. (Literally, satanic...there is a series of ads that show a red-horned devil standing over the shoulder of a man as he chats on the internet with an innocent but gullible young girl.)

Ironically I think men in Egypt struggle with problems similar to the ones African American men face here. Jobs are scarce, the government is demeaning and oppressive, and the conservative Islamic establishment has told single men that they are rapacious and untrustworthy so often that they have begun to believe it. They have no impetus to behave respectfully--they have no prospects, no respect, and, in their own eyes, no future. Their only path into respectable adult society (and into healthy sexual relationships) is marriage, which is an astronomically expensive affair in Egypt. Many of them live with their parents--unemployed, single, and in a state of enforced chastity--until well into their thirties. They are *miserable*.

Egyptian women are screwed because Egyptian men are screwed. The solution to this problem will have to be sweeping, because it is rooted in poverty, oppression and a religious establishment that curtails and stigmatizes male sexuality just as ferociously as it does female sexuality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually think interviewing regular women probably provides a clearer picture of what is going on in Egypt than interviewing activists. The fact of the matter is that there is very little anti-harassment activism in Egypt today. Most of the onus is placed on women&#8211;to dress more conservatively, not chat on the internet, etc etc. Onus, but not blame&#8230;the reigning philosophy is that women are not at fault, but that men are uncontrollable. People think that by encouraging women to become more conservative, they are encouraging them to protect themselves. Men are seen as ravening beasts until they are civilized by marriage. The ads that encourage women to veil (you&#8217;re candy, you&#8217;re meat) portray men in an even more unflattering light&#8211;as disgusting carrion flies, slinking alley cats, satanic seducers. (Literally, satanic&#8230;there is a series of ads that show a red-horned devil standing over the shoulder of a man as he chats on the internet with an innocent but gullible young girl.)</p>
<p>Ironically I think men in Egypt struggle with problems similar to the ones African American men face here. Jobs are scarce, the government is demeaning and oppressive, and the conservative Islamic establishment has told single men that they are rapacious and untrustworthy so often that they have begun to believe it. They have no impetus to behave respectfully&#8211;they have no prospects, no respect, and, in their own eyes, no future. Their only path into respectable adult society (and into healthy sexual relationships) is marriage, which is an astronomically expensive affair in Egypt. Many of them live with their parents&#8211;unemployed, single, and in a state of enforced chastity&#8211;until well into their thirties. They are *miserable*.</p>
<p>Egyptian women are screwed because Egyptian men are screwed. The solution to this problem will have to be sweeping, because it is rooted in poverty, oppression and a religious establishment that curtails and stigmatizes male sexuality just as ferociously as it does female sexuality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fatemeh</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/#comment-1900</link>
		<dc:creator>Fatemeh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 21:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=810#comment-1900</guid>
		<description>Cycads--thanks for the link! I&#039;m putting this on our Friday link list.

I think Faith&#039;s point about the story&#039;s point: &quot;to reinforce ideas about the superiority of Western gender as compared to gender norms in the Arab world&quot; is a great one. Without context, the story just ends up fueling the &quot;culture-clash&quot; argument by constructing Egyptian (or, in a larger sense, Muslim) men as inherently bad boogeymen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cycads&#8211;thanks for the link! I&#8217;m putting this on our Friday link list.</p>
<p>I think Faith&#8217;s point about the story&#8217;s point: &#8220;to reinforce ideas about the superiority of Western gender as compared to gender norms in the Arab world&#8221; is a great one. Without context, the story just ends up fueling the &#8220;culture-clash&#8221; argument by constructing Egyptian (or, in a larger sense, Muslim) men as inherently bad boogeymen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cycads</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/09/bbc-vs-the-la-times-who-did-it-better/#comment-1899</link>
		<dc:creator>cycads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 19:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=810#comment-1899</guid>
		<description>I think the reason why there are only women who shared their views and experiences because not only does it highlights the extent of the abuse, but it adds &#039;shock value&#039; when it comes from the victims themselves. They are all victims of sexual harassment, whereas men are generally not. To be fair, men whose daughters, wives, and sisters who have sexually harassed by right are victims too. But men are generally silent from shame.

There is a good article by an Egyptian man i.e.Khaled Diab about this issue:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/03/egypt.gender</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the reason why there are only women who shared their views and experiences because not only does it highlights the extent of the abuse, but it adds &#8216;shock value&#8217; when it comes from the victims themselves. They are all victims of sexual harassment, whereas men are generally not. To be fair, men whose daughters, wives, and sisters who have sexually harassed by right are victims too. But men are generally silent from shame.</p>
<p>There is a good article by an Egyptian man i.e.Khaled Diab about this issue:<br />
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/03/egypt.gender" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/03/egypt.gender</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic (User agent is rejected)
Page Caching using disk: enhanced (User agent is rejected)
Database Caching using disk: basic
Object Caching 344/357 objects using disk: basic
Content Delivery Network via Amazon Web Services: S3: wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com (user agent is rejected)

Served from: www.patheos.com @ 2012-02-09 11:56:20 -->
