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	<title>Comments on: Friday Links &#8212; October 10, 2008</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/</link>
	<description>Looking at Muslim women in the media and pop culture</description>
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		<title>By: forsoothsayer</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/#comment-2399</link>
		<dc:creator>forsoothsayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 05:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=1275#comment-2399</guid>
		<description>religion should be part of law to the exact extent that democratic elections permit them to - while having a constitution in place that protects the fundamental rights and freedoms, particularly those of minorities. sounds simple enough...sigh.
melinda, so right. why are journalists LAME.

does no one care that tamer hosny has only one eyebrow??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>religion should be part of law to the exact extent that democratic elections permit them to &#8211; while having a constitution in place that protects the fundamental rights and freedoms, particularly those of minorities. sounds simple enough&#8230;sigh.<br />
melinda, so right. why are journalists LAME.</p>
<p>does no one care that tamer hosny has only one eyebrow??</p>
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		<title>By: Melinda</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/#comment-2398</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=1275#comment-2398</guid>
		<description>Sorry, yet another comment:

What&#039;s with the picture accompanying the &quot;Egypt Christian shoots his Muslim sister&quot; story? An angry, scary-looking brown man who is NOT the subject of the story. Perfect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, yet another comment:</p>
<p>What&#8217;s with the picture accompanying the &#8220;Egypt Christian shoots his Muslim sister&#8221; story? An angry, scary-looking brown man who is NOT the subject of the story. Perfect.</p>
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		<title>By: Melinda</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/#comment-2403</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=1275#comment-2403</guid>
		<description>Other comments:

— All France is doing is isolating the women it wants to make &quot;more French,&quot; in the end just polarizing people with hatred on both sides
— &quot;Transvestites&quot; in Indonesia: Might some of these people actually be transgendered, as opposed to transvestites?
— Did anyone notice the caption for the Gaza story? &quot;Veiled Palestinian women. (Not related to story.)&quot; Did some editor fail to read the parentheses and change the picture, or does the publication want to highlight the fact it&#039;s just using the picture for decoration?
— Tamer Hosni kiss: Sigh. Can&#039;t they just get over it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other comments:</p>
<p>— All France is doing is isolating the women it wants to make &#8220;more French,&#8221; in the end just polarizing people with hatred on both sides<br />
— &#8220;Transvestites&#8221; in Indonesia: Might some of these people actually be transgendered, as opposed to transvestites?<br />
— Did anyone notice the caption for the Gaza story? &#8220;Veiled Palestinian women. (Not related to story.)&#8221; Did some editor fail to read the parentheses and change the picture, or does the publication want to highlight the fact it&#8217;s just using the picture for decoration?<br />
— Tamer Hosni kiss: Sigh. Can&#8217;t they just get over it?</p>
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		<title>By: Melinda</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/#comment-2402</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=1275#comment-2402</guid>
		<description>Gender-specific cars is absolutely absurd. Men never need to go shopping or take their children anywhere? Also, it&#039;s not that great environmentally either — encouraging people to have individual cars catered to personal needs instead of sharing within a family. But at least the article didn&#039;t say at the end — did you notice? — &quot;By the way, women in Saudi Arabia can&#039;t drive at all!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gender-specific cars is absolutely absurd. Men never need to go shopping or take their children anywhere? Also, it&#8217;s not that great environmentally either — encouraging people to have individual cars catered to personal needs instead of sharing within a family. But at least the article didn&#8217;t say at the end — did you notice? — &#8220;By the way, women in Saudi Arabia can&#8217;t drive at all!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Fatemeh</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/#comment-2401</link>
		<dc:creator>Fatemeh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=1275#comment-2401</guid>
		<description>@ Kawthar: those sound terribly interesting; maybe you&#039;ld like to do a review of them for us? ;) Or someone who would?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Kawthar: those sound terribly interesting; maybe you&#8217;ld like to do a review of them for us? <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  Or someone who would?</p>
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		<title>By: SakuraPassion</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/#comment-2400</link>
		<dc:creator>SakuraPassion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=1275#comment-2400</guid>
		<description>I pretty much agree with you&#039;re saying Sobia.  I don&#039;t follow a specific religion, but personally I wouldn&#039;t want the government to use my religious beliefs to infringe upon the rights of others.  As well as using my religious beliefs for their own personal gain.  But enough about  that. ;)

But in all honesty, I think the issue with the morality police in Saudi Arabia is it seems they don&#039;t have anything better to do than to harass people.  I&#039;ve been reading stories about the morality police, and they bother people for some of the stupidest things.  Don&#039;t they have anything better to do?  I mean, really?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I pretty much agree with you&#8217;re saying Sobia.  I don&#8217;t follow a specific religion, but personally I wouldn&#8217;t want the government to use my religious beliefs to infringe upon the rights of others.  As well as using my religious beliefs for their own personal gain.  But enough about  that. <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But in all honesty, I think the issue with the morality police in Saudi Arabia is it seems they don&#8217;t have anything better to do than to harass people.  I&#8217;ve been reading stories about the morality police, and they bother people for some of the stupidest things.  Don&#8217;t they have anything better to do?  I mean, really?</p>
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		<title>By: Sobia</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/#comment-2386</link>
		<dc:creator>Sobia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=1275#comment-2386</guid>
		<description>And the distinction between what can be legislated and not - what harms others and infringes upon their rights is what needs to be legislated. Therefore, who someone sleeps with or who they hang out in a park with, does not harm anyone. And it does not harm the morality of others either. That is why there are distinctions here. A couple can walk around here and show public affection. But a line is drawn at having sex in public. This is seen as offensive to others, mainly children (therefore harmful to them). However, even then people are usually given warnings as opposed to punished. I can understand in Muslim countries if showing public affection is not allowed but to just be out with someone of the opposite sex does not harm anyone. Not even from an Islamic perspective.

Similarly, walking around completely naked is not allowed as this is considered to be offensive, again mainly to children and thus harmful. However, in places like Ontario, where I live, women can walk around topless if they want. This is allowed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the distinction between what can be legislated and not &#8211; what harms others and infringes upon their rights is what needs to be legislated. Therefore, who someone sleeps with or who they hang out in a park with, does not harm anyone. And it does not harm the morality of others either. That is why there are distinctions here. A couple can walk around here and show public affection. But a line is drawn at having sex in public. This is seen as offensive to others, mainly children (therefore harmful to them). However, even then people are usually given warnings as opposed to punished. I can understand in Muslim countries if showing public affection is not allowed but to just be out with someone of the opposite sex does not harm anyone. Not even from an Islamic perspective.</p>
<p>Similarly, walking around completely naked is not allowed as this is considered to be offensive, again mainly to children and thus harmful. However, in places like Ontario, where I live, women can walk around topless if they want. This is allowed.</p>
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		<title>By: Sobia</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/#comment-2387</link>
		<dc:creator>Sobia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=1275#comment-2387</guid>
		<description>The rights that Islam gave are quite intuitive if one values human rights.

I did not say laws cannot be inspired by religion, as many morals are regardless of religion, but to specifically have Islamic laws is very dangerous. Very rarely have Muslims, or any religion, been able to implement &quot;Islamic&quot; laws. After all, Islamic laws are all a matter of interpretation. Very few rules (murder is haram) are clear-cut. So implementing Islamic laws then becomes very relative. The laws will depend on who interprets them.

And although non-religious laws are often up for re-interpretation the main difference between those and religious laws, is that religious laws cannot be questioned. If one does question them then their Islamicness is questioned and doubted. &quot;How dare you question this law?? It is made by God!&quot; Non-religious laws cannot be defended in this manner so can be questioned.

Once you bring God into the picture then you can use Him to control and subjugate people very easily.

And as far as implementing women&#039;s rights - Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan all have Islamic laws. And their women&#039;s rights records are deplorable. They use Islam to oppress women and justify this oppression through Islamic laws!

State and mosque should be separate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rights that Islam gave are quite intuitive if one values human rights.</p>
<p>I did not say laws cannot be inspired by religion, as many morals are regardless of religion, but to specifically have Islamic laws is very dangerous. Very rarely have Muslims, or any religion, been able to implement &#8220;Islamic&#8221; laws. After all, Islamic laws are all a matter of interpretation. Very few rules (murder is haram) are clear-cut. So implementing Islamic laws then becomes very relative. The laws will depend on who interprets them.</p>
<p>And although non-religious laws are often up for re-interpretation the main difference between those and religious laws, is that religious laws cannot be questioned. If one does question them then their Islamicness is questioned and doubted. &#8220;How dare you question this law?? It is made by God!&#8221; Non-religious laws cannot be defended in this manner so can be questioned.</p>
<p>Once you bring God into the picture then you can use Him to control and subjugate people very easily.</p>
<p>And as far as implementing women&#8217;s rights &#8211; Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan all have Islamic laws. And their women&#8217;s rights records are deplorable. They use Islam to oppress women and justify this oppression through Islamic laws!</p>
<p>State and mosque should be separate.</p>
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		<title>By: Farah B</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/#comment-2391</link>
		<dc:creator>Farah B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 01:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=1275#comment-2391</guid>
		<description>I was just going to leave it at that question, but I&#039;m listening to a boring lecture about contract frustration and wanted to make some further points...

I think you&#039;re confusing the role that religion can plays within government and how it can structure government, and the way in which the political elites interpret the rights and obligations set out in the Qu&#039;ran.

And my point above was that what, you&#039;re saying to governments &quot;Please, don&#039;t follow your own morality, instead we&#039;re going to shove our own liberal secular interpretation of human rights in your face and force you to comply&quot; ? Islam itself presents an ideological framework in which to base all social and political life. Such a framework sits extremely uneasily with Western liberal secular conceptions of government and state.

It also doesn&#039;t really make much sense, especially considering you wrote a favourable review of Mojha Kahf&#039;s article last week; who claims the rights she listed as ones being granted by Islam, rather than those rights being inalienable human rights granted by her government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just going to leave it at that question, but I&#8217;m listening to a boring lecture about contract frustration and wanted to make some further points&#8230;</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re confusing the role that religion can plays within government and how it can structure government, and the way in which the political elites interpret the rights and obligations set out in the Qu&#8217;ran.</p>
<p>And my point above was that what, you&#8217;re saying to governments &#8220;Please, don&#8217;t follow your own morality, instead we&#8217;re going to shove our own liberal secular interpretation of human rights in your face and force you to comply&#8221; ? Islam itself presents an ideological framework in which to base all social and political life. Such a framework sits extremely uneasily with Western liberal secular conceptions of government and state.</p>
<p>It also doesn&#8217;t really make much sense, especially considering you wrote a favourable review of Mojha Kahf&#8217;s article last week; who claims the rights she listed as ones being granted by Islam, rather than those rights being inalienable human rights granted by her government.</p>
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		<title>By: Farah B</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2008/10/friday-links-october-10-2008/#comment-2392</link>
		<dc:creator>Farah B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 01:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimahmediawatch.wordpress.com/?p=1275#comment-2392</guid>
		<description>&quot;This is why religion should be kept out of government. You give religious power to morons IN power and you get opportunities for major abuses. No state should legislate morality (aside from instances of human rights abuses - murder, rape etc).&quot;

Sobia, how can you maintain such a distinction?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is why religion should be kept out of government. You give religious power to morons IN power and you get opportunities for major abuses. No state should legislate morality (aside from instances of human rights abuses &#8211; murder, rape etc).&#8221;</p>
<p>Sobia, how can you maintain such a distinction?</p>
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