Not to harp on this again, but what exactly is Islamic modesty and who defines it? As far as I remember there is no fashion section of the Qur’an. And if it’s not in the Qur’an then we could conceivably say that it’s context specific.

My response of Nov. 20 is not posted. In anycase, I have kept a copy of what I wrote on a different computer, and I plan to re-post it later to see if it goes through.

The few responses here demonstrate the bridge between the Islamic conception of mdoesty vs. the non-Islamic conception of modesty. The latter had once fit with the Islamic conception, but it has transformed to the form it is today (i.e.: you can cover or uncover your breasts depending on the place and time”).

[Editor's Note: Nina, we DO have a comment moderation policy, and I felt your comments violated the "respectful of other's views" clause, and so I did not publish them.]

That’s quite an assumption to make. And like the others have pointed out, who says that when a woman wears a mini skirt it’s for the reason you said? It’s not. Besides, in some way that’s like me assuming you’re wearing your hijab because you’re forced to and being oppressed by it.

I’ve worn mini skirts before, but I never did so to show feminine sexuality nor desirability. I wore it because I wanted to, had nothing to do with “showing off” my sexuality or flaunting it.

But

Sometimes a skirt is just a skirt.

You, like some men, assume that if I show skin it is because I want to put my sexuality on display and that I am open to sexual provocation. “She was asking for it”. No. Sometimes I wear shorts because I’m damn hot — not because I want everyone to see my awkward, hairy legs.

This is the problem with societies that impose a strict dress code. Where I come from, girls dress in a wide range of attire and men at a young age must learn how to filter their words and behaviors regardless of what is “provoking” them. This is called respect. However, when I was in Iran for instance, I felt that some men lacked this filter, and (regardless of what I wearing — I was dressed quite conservatively if I do say so myself) felt it was within their rights to sexualize me and express whatever thought or desire that popped into their puny unholy little brains.

It is not your place to assume to know what my motives are for wearing the things that I do. It is your job (and everyone elses) to treat me with the same respect and consideration as you would anyone else.

“Wearing clothing or indulging in behavior and attitude that sexualizes a woman OR causes someone else to regard her in a sexual manner is immodest in the Islamic context regardless of her geographical location.”

Who defines what will sexualize a woman? In Pakistan a woman wearing capris could be sexualized, but in Canada most would not assume a woman in capris to be sexualized. Again, it comes down to context and social constructions of sexual explicitness and modesty.

“it is an all-encompassing state of mind where the main intent is on protecting one’s sexuality and not displaying it overtly. That’s the larger principle that’s lacking in your understanding of Islamic context of modesty.”

Again, what does it mean to display sexuality overtly? vs covertly? Who decides this?

“The whole point of wearing a mini-skirt (and showing off one’s legs) is to exude feminine sexuality and desirability.”

Who says a woman wears a short skirt to show off one’s legs? I’ve worn short skirts because I like the way they look or because it’s hot out, not because I want to show off my legs. You’re making a huge leap by assuming you know the intentions of a wearer.

“Furthermore, one cannot control the (potential) sexual thoughts of someone else who encounters you in a mini-skirt.”

One cannot control the potential sexual thoughts of others EVER regardless of what they wear or do. Those are someone else’s thoughts. We as women cannot control the thoughts of the people we come across. It’s impossible.

“And the mini-skirt is not one of them.”

Says who? Why not? What is it about the short skirt that cannot make it modest if the society in which I live says it’s modest? Even if I personally feel it is not modest I cannot deny that the society I live in deems it modest.

Muslims no longer live only in Muslim majority countries and definitions and realities of what it means to be a Muslim are changing as a result, as they should.

Excuse me but when I wore the hijab I felt the same constant reference to my sexuality from men I encountered. These men still regarded me in a sexual manner. Men still tried to pick me up, or undress me with their leering eyes and some with even sexually harass me. These men still had sexual thoughts when I was in a hijab. Nor I am responsible for his sexual thoughts whether I’m wearing a hijab or I’m not. But instead of focusing on his modesty such as his thoughts and perception of women, you focused on her.

Even at the mosque, the topics and lectures usually addressed concerning women are restricted to the female body, what clothing is modest, what women should wear, the hijab, their voices, their very presence, the obsession with their bodies. That is also behaviour and attitudes that sexualizes me because it reduces me to my female body. (That some describe women as fitna, that their born temptresses, that their distraction to men that they shouldn’t even be in a Mosque). References limited to my body make me feel like a sexual object, makes me feel like I’m viewed as temptress.

Hijab is not simply about slapping on a headscarf; it is an all-encompassing state of mind where the main intent is on protecting one’s sexuality and not displaying it overtly. That’s the larger principle that’s lacking in your understanding of Islamic context of modesty.

The whole point of wearing a mini-skirt (and showing off one’s legs) is to exude feminine sexuality and desirability. Furthermore, one cannot control the (potential) sexual thoughts of someone else who encounters you in a mini-skirt. So a Muslim female believer cannot wear a mini-skirt and be considered modest in the “Islamic” context.

And yeah, there IS a very clear Islamic context of what is acceptable attire and what is not based on the larger Islamic principle of hijab that I referred to above. It is culture that translates that context into the different forms of Islamically acceptable attire we see from the abaya to the baju kurung to the kaftan to the shalwar kameez. And the mini-skirt is not one of them.

First of all, you must define the term “Islamic context”. What is this “Islamic context” you are referring to? Secondly, who says this “Islamic context” doesn’t warrant any debate. And NO it isn’t clear because there is also plenty of debate on modesty and differing views/interpretations on it whether you like or not. Thirdly, who are you to tell us what can and should be discussed?