Comments on: Tavakoli’s Triumph: Scores in Chadors http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2009/12/tavakoli%e2%80%99s-triumph-scores-in-chadors/ Looking at Muslim women in the media and pop culture Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:36:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: farah http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2009/12/tavakoli%e2%80%99s-triumph-scores-in-chadors/#comment-7649 farah Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:45:10 +0000 http://muslimahmediawatch.org/?p=5329#comment-7649 <3 this campaign. <3 this campaign.

]]> By: Sobia http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2009/12/tavakoli%e2%80%99s-triumph-scores-in-chadors/#comment-7648 Sobia Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:01:13 +0000 http://muslimahmediawatch.org/?p=5329#comment-7648 I understood Tim as pointing out that a man dressing like a woman is considered shame worthy in a lot of contexts, not just Iran. And I agree with him. Even here in North America for a man to behave like a woman is considered something of shame or to avoid, if one is a straight male, but for a woman to behave like a man is a step up, or something to be aspired to. As he pointed out the officer lost his credibility once it was found that he was dressing like a woman. That says something about the way women are viewed in a British context as well. I understood Tim as pointing out that a man dressing like a woman is considered shame worthy in a lot of contexts, not just Iran. And I agree with him. Even here in North America for a man to behave like a woman is considered something of shame or to avoid, if one is a straight male, but for a woman to behave like a man is a step up, or something to be aspired to. As he pointed out the officer lost his credibility once it was found that he was dressing like a woman. That says something about the way women are viewed in a British context as well.

]]> By: sophsiter http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2009/12/tavakoli%e2%80%99s-triumph-scores-in-chadors/#comment-7647 sophsiter Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:58:37 +0000 http://muslimahmediawatch.org/?p=5329#comment-7647 So if the authorities did not force him to wear the veil, and he was already wearing it, should they have removed the veil just because some might assume they meant this as an affront to women? Aren't you presupposing that dressing like a woman is humiliating in general to men and thus that being a woman is shameful? Have the Iranian authorities purposefully dressed opposition males as women in the past (those who were not already dressed like women)? So if the authorities did not force him to wear the veil, and he was already wearing it, should they have removed the veil just because some might assume they meant this as an affront to women? Aren’t you presupposing that dressing like a woman is humiliating in general to men and thus that being a woman is shameful? Have the Iranian authorities purposefully dressed opposition males as women in the past (those who were not already dressed like women)?

]]> By: Tim http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2009/12/tavakoli%e2%80%99s-triumph-scores-in-chadors/#comment-7646 Tim Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:54:45 +0000 http://muslimahmediawatch.org/?p=5329#comment-7646 My point was lost. Never mind. My point was lost. Never mind.

]]> By: Safiyyah http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2009/12/tavakoli%e2%80%99s-triumph-scores-in-chadors/#comment-7645 Safiyyah Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:37:06 +0000 http://muslimahmediawatch.org/?p=5329#comment-7645 @ Tim: cross dressing is often used as a political tactic, and a very useful one too - having little to do with gender identity. Also, "a man dressing as a woman that is considered shameful: a point of view not limited to Iran." yes, but that's because the woman is viewed as shameful in the first place. @ Tim:
cross dressing is often used as a political tactic, and a very useful one too – having little to do with gender identity.

Also, “a man dressing as a woman that is considered shameful: a point of view not limited to Iran.” yes, but that’s because the woman is viewed as shameful in the first place.

]]> By: Tim http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2009/12/tavakoli%e2%80%99s-triumph-scores-in-chadors/#comment-7644 Tim Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:55:03 +0000 http://muslimahmediawatch.org/?p=5329#comment-7644 David Shayler was the officer who claimed that MI6 funded Islamist fighters to assassinate Colonel Gaddafi and that MI5 failed to keep track of an IRA bombing cell. He was a thorn in the side of the British government and our security services for several years. He spent time in exile and served two prison sentences for his breach of the Official Secrets' Act. The point I was making was that after years being taken seriously for his claims, the revelation that he dresses as a woman has suddenly discredited him in the eyes of society at large. ...which I believe is relevant to the conversation. By presenting him as a cross-dresser, the attempt is made to discredit Tavakoli. Is this story really about contempt for women and women's clothing? Or is it rather about utilising a taboo to quash one's opponents? David Shayler was the officer who claimed that MI6 funded Islamist fighters to assassinate Colonel Gaddafi and that MI5 failed to keep track of an IRA bombing cell.

He was a thorn in the side of the British government and our security services for several years. He spent time in exile and served two prison sentences for his breach of the Official Secrets’ Act.

The point I was making was that after years being taken seriously for his claims, the revelation that he dresses as a woman has suddenly discredited him in the eyes of society at large.

…which I believe is relevant to the conversation. By presenting him as a cross-dresser, the attempt is made to discredit Tavakoli.

Is this story really about contempt for women and women’s clothing? Or is it rather about utilising a taboo to quash one’s opponents?

]]> By: Fatemeh http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2009/12/tavakoli%e2%80%99s-triumph-scores-in-chadors/#comment-7643 Fatemeh Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:14:29 +0000 http://muslimahmediawatch.org/?p=5329#comment-7643 @ Roja: I pulled the picture from the "We are Majid Tavakoli" Facebook photos, so I'm not sure whether it's connected or not. There are plenty others that I can replace it with--thanks! @ Tim: Your MI5 officer isn't relevant to the conversation. How does dressing as a woman make him a less effective officer? @ Roja: I pulled the picture from the “We are Majid Tavakoli” Facebook photos, so I’m not sure whether it’s connected or not. There are plenty others that I can replace it with–thanks!

@ Tim: Your MI5 officer isn’t relevant to the conversation. How does dressing as a woman make him a less effective officer?

]]> By: Yusuf Smith http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2009/12/tavakoli%e2%80%99s-triumph-scores-in-chadors/#comment-7642 Yusuf Smith Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:43:47 +0000 http://muslimahmediawatch.org/?p=5329#comment-7642 As-Salaamu 'alaikum, A very inspired campaign. Of course, dressing up in clothing associated with the opposite sex is haraam normally, but clearly there is a necessity here. Actually, the head-coverings men wear in some Arab countries are often wrapped in much the same way as a woman's headcovering and can be called a khimaar. I have seen it in a photo myself - a man with a checked scarf tied round the back of his head and under his chin, with the two black rings on top. As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,

A very inspired campaign. Of course, dressing up in clothing associated with the opposite sex is haraam normally, but clearly there is a necessity here.

Actually, the head-coverings men wear in some Arab countries are often wrapped in much the same way as a woman’s headcovering and can be called a khimaar. I have seen it in a photo myself – a man with a checked scarf tied round the back of his head and under his chin, with the two black rings on top.

]]> By: Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2009/12/tavakoli%e2%80%99s-triumph-scores-in-chadors/#comment-7641 Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:34:41 +0000 http://muslimahmediawatch.org/?p=5329#comment-7641 that is so awesome. that is so awesome.

]]> By: Tim http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mmw/2009/12/tavakoli%e2%80%99s-triumph-scores-in-chadors/#comment-7640 Tim Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:20:00 +0000 http://muslimahmediawatch.org/?p=5329#comment-7640 <blockquote>Being a woman is considered so shameful that if you are an outspoken male opposition supporter in Iran, the press will release a picture of you wearing a headscarf and chador to humiliate you.</blockquote> More likely it is <em>a man dressing as a woman</em> that is considered shameful: a point of view not limited to Iran. Did you not read the articles about renegade MI5 officer, David Shayler, earlier in the year? He has been thoroughly discredited now we <em>know</em> he often dresses as his alter-ego Dolores.

Being a woman is considered so shameful that if you are an outspoken male opposition supporter in Iran, the press will release a picture of you wearing a headscarf and chador to humiliate you.

More likely it is a man dressing as a woman that is considered shameful: a point of view not limited to Iran.

Did you not read the articles about renegade MI5 officer, David Shayler, earlier in the year? He has been thoroughly discredited now we know he often dresses as his alter-ego Dolores.

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