Jesus prophesies to the LGBT community

jesus prophesies to the lgbt community cartoon by nakedpastor david hayward

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Who wants to go back to a time when interracial marriage was illegal and separating the offenders was applauded?

Who wants to go back to a time when eating lobster was punishable by death?

Who wants to go back to a time when picking up firewood on a Sunday permitted your parents to kill you?

Who wants to go back to a time when committing adultery allowed people to execute you on the spot with a spear?

Who wants to go back to a time when masturbation sent you to the grave early?

There’s no biblical support for a lot of what we believe and do. There’s a lot of biblical support against some of the things we believe and do, but that doesn’t seem to bother us.

Some (and here) feel we need to be able to talk about this in a thoughtful manner. Same with most theologians.

Yes, the bible has a lot to say about sexuality. But it comes from thousands of years ago with its own cultural baggage. As I read it, the bible’s main thrust is towards equality, justice, love and inclusion.

Sometimes we can’t see the forest for the trees.

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About David Hayward

David Hayward runs the blog nakedpastor as a graffiti artist on the walls of religion where he critiques religion… specifically Christianity and the church. He also runs the online community The Lasting Supper where people can help themselves discover, explore and live in spiritual freedom.

  • Gary

    Yes the bible does have a lot to say about sexuality. And a lot of it bears no resemblance to what the typical church teaches. Faulty translation and fear based theology are largely behind the religious contempt for the homosexual community. It is such a shame that so many have to suffer for the ignorance of others.

  • Adam Julians

    Masturbation sends you to the grave early? Yikes, I was just told it makes you blind – that’s more serious that I thought! :)

  • rob g

    Love the cartoon, David! And it reminded me of having read about Toscano’s play about people in the Bible who do not fit the usual gender binary http://www.petersontoscano.com/transfigurations… so perhaps some stories did get told, though in ways that are hidden to those not open to seeing.

  • http://nakedpastor.com/ nakedpastor

    yes rob i’m sure there’s lots that didn’t make the authoritative books.

  • Aviatrix

    I wish there was a “Like” button for your commentary, David. Instead, I’ll just say “Amen!”

  • http://demiurgiclust.net shelly

    If NP was making an oblique reference to Onan, it’s not quite accurate. He was struck down dead because he pulled out before he came while having sex with his sister-in-law. He didn’t fulfill his Levirate duty and help her produce an heir, which she wasn’t able to do with her deceased husband. There’s nothing in scripture about wanking. ;)

  • Dennis Irwin

    If a man and woman are needed to pro-create……..then why is it hard to understand, without the bible, that people would have a negative reaction to homosexuality. Just seems logical we’d be built that way.

  • http://nakedpastor.com/ nakedpastor

    Ya Shelly I said that rather tongue-in-cheek. Actually, that passage IS USED against masturbation. I know because I’ve heard it a million times. But I do agree with you in the scriptural intent.

  • Guest

    Yep…too logical.

  • http://theoldadam.wordpress.com/ Steve Martin

    Jesus would say the same thing to them that He says to you and me;

    “Go your way, and sin no more.”

  • Adam Julians

    Oh boy! Thanks for the warning – I know never to withdraw when having sex with my sister-in-law then, Yeah the matrubation thing was something I was told – thanks for settign me right on that whew. Now – I was also told mastubation causes you mental illiness. Lots of things to worry about with sex it seems! ;)

  • Nick Gotts

    No, it doesn’t, and there have been many societies where homosexuality has not been regarded negatively, which shows that we are not “built that way”.

    Does the same “logic” apply if either the man or the woman happens to be infertile?

  • Gary

    That’s not what He said. That is a horrible translation that is embraced and promoted by fundamental legalists

  • Dennis Irwin

    Of course not. Just like I don’t always know why people have eyes but can’t see or ears and can’t hear I don’t know why some are more fertile than others. But what I do know, quite logically, is that men and women were built to pro-create with each other. Maybe in this bizzaro world you guys have created you can argue that it’s not true, but it is. And because we were built that way, maybe, just maybe, we are built to be attracted to the opposite sex! It’s crazy, I know. But here’s the kicker; if were built to be attracted to the opposite sex, maybe, just maybe, we’re supposed to be un-attracted to the same sex? I know I am…..and I was built that way.

  • Steven Waling

    Unfortunately, some folks are not built that way. Just as some penguins, some dolphins, some dogs etc just happen to be gay. Nothing to do with logic; just facts.

  • Caryn LeMur

    Dennis: I am female and married to a female. Yet, in some ways, I agree with you. We (as humans) have an automatic negative reaction to many things that are outside our intrinsic sense of normal. So many of our gay friends say, ‘Ewwwww… yuchy… who would want to be hetero?’
    And our gay friends are ‘right’; and our hetero friends are ‘right’. [After all, we are discussing right/wrong based on an intrinsic self-sense of normal.]
    Learning to transcend our intrinsic sense of right/wrong, and become accepting of other activities that are neutral, is part of the human experience. “Love does not wrong to its neighbor” – granted, that quote is from the Bible, which is outside this line of argumentation. But… I think that line in the Bible strikes a deep chord within many people – hey, if their hetero love is doing me no wrong, then it is within the bounds of love… and I should overcome my intrinsic reaction, and allow the hetero’s to walk hand-in-hand in my neighborhood in peace.
    Much love in Christ always and unconditionally; Caryn

  • Dennis Irwin

    I guess. The overlooked point in all of this is that most are repulsed by it. And I think it’s natural to be repulsed by it. A product of the Creator.

  • Nick Gotts

    Just because you’re a bigot, don’t go assuming most people are.

  • Steven Waling

    I’m not. Why would I be? What people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms ain’t nothing to do with me.

  • Dennis Irwin

    My point exactly. It’s got to be “bigoted”. When in fact…..I simply can’t help the way I was made.

  • Nick Gotts

    Yes, you can. No-one is saying you have to be attracted to other men – I’m not either, for that matter; but people can and do change their attitude to others’ sexual preferences. Practice telling yourself that what other people choose to do sexually, as long as all concerned consent and no children are involved, is simply no business of yours. Don’t picture either yourself or other people doing things that disgust or upset you. If you find yourself doing so, imagine closing a door between yourself and the image.

  • Dennis Irwin

    I don’t agree. There seems to be an agenda to normalize it. And my point is that I was built by the Creator….to reject it. It’s natural. And what is my business is when that agenda tries to influence my family, especially my kids. That’s when another attribute the Creator built into me comes forward…..protector. Just doing my job.

  • http://nakedpastor.com/ nakedpastor

    That sounds like a deflection of responsibility. Like the fundamentalist strategy “It’s not me who said it. God said it!”

  • Nick Gotts

    Yes, there is an agenda to treat gay and bisexual people as full human beings with equal rights, and to establish that what consenting adults do sexually is their own business; just as you have an agenda to poke your nose into other people’s bedrooms, and treat them as lesser beings if they do things there that you disapprove of. If you were “built by the Creator to reject it”, how is it that so many other people are either gay, or don’t disapprove of the same things you do? You’re just seeking religious justification for your bigotry.

  • Dennis Irwin

    Caryn, Very nice response. I do respectfully disagree on one point. I don’t think we’re dealing with a “sense of right/wrong” or a “self-sense of normal”. I know I was physically built by God to be with a woman to make babies. And I believe I’m naturally made by God to reject men so that can be achieved. I’m taking the right/wrong angle out of the argument. Just on a common sense physical observation of life, calling hetro’s bigots (which Nick did below) for rejecting homosexuality is short sighted. I’m trying to point out…..we were made to! Otherwise, there might not be anymore Nick’s! lol.

  • Dennis Irwin

    No…..Natural justification for my repulsiveness. I don’t believe I brought up religion. That’s why I try to use the word “Creator”. It’s kind of neutral. And I don’t poke into anybody’s bedroom. You do what you want….just stop trying to convince me and my kids it’s wrong to be grossed out by it when we see it.

  • Thom Turner

    Nick I have heard before from people that there have been many societies not regarding homosexuality as wrong in the past. But never are they named. I have heard others make the argument that homosexuallity as a norm as always accompanied the downfall of many societies. Aside from our present movement of laws in many states and countries could you elaborate historically?

  • Dennis Irwin

    Well, of course God did say it. But that’s not my point. One thing to point out is, I’m talking about humanity. Not individuals per se. I get there’s abnormalities. I don’t understand why a guy wants another guy when he was built to want a girl. Or why someone with eyes was born blind. I’m just trying to look at something that seems obvious, but has been overlooked. If the Creator made us (humanity) with a sex drive so we’d pro-create…is all that crazy most humans would naturally reject being with the same sex? Shun it even. It seems it would be the natural response.

  • Gary

    Dennis said – “Just on a common sense physical observation of life, calling hetro’s bigots (which Gary did below) for rejecting homosexuality is short sighted. I’m trying to point out…..we were made to! Otherwise, there might not be anymore Gary’s! lol.”

    I did? You are going to have to show me where. I usually remember when I tell people they are bigots over the homosexual issue.

  • Thom Turner

    Steven, how do we know an animal is gay? That sounds ridiculous and if anything supports the idea that being gay is an anomaly in nature and not a norm to be embraced.

  • Nick Gotts

    Er, no, “Creator” is not neutral at all. And you don’t “see it”

    (literally or metaphorically) unless you poke your nose into other people’s bedrooms (literally or metaphorically). You felt you had to bring up your disgust on this thread; no-one made you.

  • Gary

    He did huh? LOL

  • Thom Turner

    Nick, “so many other people” is about 3-7% of the population, depending on what statistics you use. They are a vocal movement and have support of people who share their views but do not practice their lifestyle.

    “how is it that so many other people are either gay, or don’t disapprove of the same things you do?” This sounds like christianity by committee and that is not the univeraal standard. Even Christians who hold different views of scripture disagree on this subject, but that does not make it bigotry.

  • Nick Gotts

    Sure: the ancient Persians, Greeks and Romans (before Christianity and Islam) seem to have regarded bisexuality as the norm for men – although their attitudes do not map straightforwardly onto modern ones (the main distinction was between “active” and “passive” or to be less euphemistic, penetrator and penetrated, with the former regarded as superior). Japan before the Meiji restoration of the 19th century is another example of a culture where sex between men was widely accepted, and many more are given here. There seems to be a lot less information about the history of lesbian and bisexual women, probably because of the focus most cultures have had on male behaviour.

  • Thom Turner

    John 8:11, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.” Sounds pretty close. With respect to the ESV translators what part of that translation is fundamental legalism, unless you just don’t like it I mean?

  • Gary

    What the hell difference does it make if it is an anomaly? Most of us here have had grade school biology and understand the reproductive process. If you were gay it would not be an “anomaly” to you…it would simply be who you are. And because of who you are you would also be shunned, attacked, demeaned, rejected, and denied the same types of legal protections and benefits afforded to all other couples. All of this for something most of them had no choice over in the first place.

  • Gary

    Oh my God…is it possible I have never seen that verse???? I am going to have to change my entire belief system because you have proof texted me.

    (Extreme sarcasm here)

    The very fact that Jesus began by saying He did not condemn her should tip you off that this translation is suspect. Telling her to “sin no more” would be a direct condemnation of her. There is some terrific exegesis calling this piece of translation into question. A more accurate translation would be to go without sin…I.E., without the burden of sin upon you.

  • Nick Gotts

    I made it clear that my “so many other people” included those who do not disapprove of homosexuality. You can see here that more Americans now approve of allowing same-sex marriage than disapprove. If you download the survey referred to, you’ll see that approximately equal numbers now do and do not consider homosexual sex wrong. Moreover, you’ll see that there has been a huge shift in attitudes over the past few decades, and no sign this is slowing down. As for “Christianity by committee” I’m not a Christian, and if the Bible supports bigotry – and yes, views such as those of Dennis are bigoted, so much the worse for the Bible. It certainly forbids divorce except in the case of adultery (and remarriage even then), but has no objection to slavery; and appears to support the subordination of women.

  • Nick Gotts

    Homosexual behaviour is quite common among non-human animals. I’d agree that use of the word “gay” is dubious, as that primarily refers to a sexual orientation or identity, not to behaviour. But how can the widespread occurrence of homosexual behaviour support the idea that it’s an “anomaly”?

  • Dennis Irwin

    I’m sorry Gary….I got you confused with Nick.

  • Gary

    Oh don’t worry…I think you are bigoted to. I just didn’t want to steal the credit from Nick for pointing that out. ;-)

  • http://demiurgiclust.net shelly

    I know it is used that way, but yeah. :)

  • http://demiurgiclust.net shelly

    Too many, IMO.

  • Adam Julians

    true.

  • Dennis Irwin

    I’ve got to admit…I laughed out loud after reading this. Then I noticed you used “to” instead of “too” and was completely disappointed. Tighten up Gary.

  • Dennis Irwin

    Yeah…how’d those societies turn out? Try being gay in Iran today! How about a little bit more modern example? I don’t get the blindness. Is it really that hard to figure out the math?

  • Dennis Irwin

    I must admit to being a little cute there….but since you asked: ” If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” I know you know this scripture and I’m quite sure you have some bizzaro-world explanation. But it represents God’s attitude that I was kind of referring to.

  • Dennis Irwin

    No…..just defending myself and fellow friends from Gary’s comment: “Faulty translation and fear based theology are largely behind the religious contempt for the homosexual community” We’re just repulsed. Because we were made that way.

  • Dennis Irwin

    Love how you guys always quote Wikipedia.

  • Gary

    You’re right. Very sloppy on my part and a typo I was very chagrined over when I saw it myself on my next peruse of the thread. LOL

  • Gary

    Of course you obey ALL of the old code I presume? This verse is TOTALLY irrelevant to the present conversation unless you embrace EVERY decree. And quite frankly…it is clear that this code was not spoken by God. (Unless you believe eating shellfish is also an abomination to God and that we should stone our disrespectful children to death)

  • Gary

    Being repulsed gives you no right to deny them rights. I am totally repulsed by Lima Beans…can’t stand to eat them and frankly it kind of bothers me being around people eating them because it reminds me of how repulsed I am. Of course I have never attempted to deny you or anyone else the right to eat them. That would just not make sense. ;-)

    (And for the record…the thought of sex with another man repulses me too)

  • Steven Waling

    Being left-handed is an anomaly in nature. I don’t see anyone stopping left-handed people from being married. What’s it to you what people do in their bedrooms? Are you afraid of catching it or something? It’s not like the flu you know.

  • Gary

    Actually in most instances Wikipedia is a very reliable source for this type of common information. We ARE on a public forum exchanging ideas after all, not submitting a theory for scientific review.

  • Gary

    http://www.faithinamerica.org/bigotry/

    A good resource for those who genuinely want to explore the evils of religion based bigotry.

  • Nick Gotts

    How did they turn out? Oh, much the same as all other past societies, because nothing lasts forever. Ancient Greek society was probably the most brilliant, in terms of its culutral achievements with a small population, that there has ever been. For your point to stand, you’d have to show (which you can’t) that the acceptance of homosexuality makes societies less resilient. In any case, the very existence of such societies shows up your claim that we are “made” or “built” to find homosexuality repulsive up for the ignorant rubbish it is. All you are doing is finding excuses for your hatred – and remarkably feeble ones at that..

  • Nick Gotts

    Love how you quote nothing but your own bigotry.

  • http://theoldadam.wordpress.com/ Steve Martin

    Gary… That’s basically what all the translations say.

    You just don’t like what He said. You think you should be able to do whatever you damn well please. Right?

  • Dennis Irwin

    What bigotry? If I’m a bigot….you’re a bigot.

  • Dennis Irwin

    Really? Then why is it the mass majority of the human population reject homosexuality? Because it grosses them out. Because it needs to……..in order to carry on. Jeesh….smart people.

  • http://nakedpastor.com/ nakedpastor

    dennis, you’re a riot!

  • Dennis Irwin

    It’s really not that complicated…….the more gay relationships society has the less people we have to carry on. Is that really that hard to figure out?

  • Gary

    And our population is on the verge of collapse for lack of people…oh wait…never mind. LOL

  • Dennis Irwin

    NP…..just a believer who didn’t get saved until I was 27…and I don’t have time for fakeness. I want truth. I must admit to having some fun with some of your boys though. What I find ironic is what they accuse fundamentalist of (and maybe even you?)….bigotry, narrow views, intolerance, ignorance, opinionated arrogance, religiousness. etc. is what they are. And probably I am. That’s why Christ must be the ultimate source. Otherwise we’re screwed.
    I actually found your site through the Pastor that baptized me 17 years ago and have not seen him for 14 years….but I’m friends with him on Facebook. He linked the B.S. article you wrote. I find your site weird ….but your boys are keeping me sharp and I love it!

  • Dennis Irwin

    Come on man…..you know God changed the rules on food. Do I have to quote it? No…you know it. You also know that God made rules to separate the Jews from everybody else, hence the word “anointed”. Never mind the fact that they didn’t have ‘fridges back then that might have made things a little different…no? Also…..Christ did away with law when it came to salvation…but does that mean I can sleep with my sister? Prob not. Why can’t we be real?

  • Gary

    “Your boys”? Seriously…you deliberately intend this to be insulting. LOL

    Good luck on your quest for truth. You will find no shortage of people telling you they have the corner on the market of truth. If you want some kind of truth which provides absolute answers then simply pick one and be happy in the ignorance of believing you have it also.

    But if you want to grow…

  • Dennis Irwin

    ummm…because our population is mostly….not gay.

  • Dennis Irwin

    So sensitive. The bible works for me. Just glad I haven’t been banned yet.

  • Gary

    So? The fact that most of us are not gay has never been an issue and frankly I have no clue as to what point you think you are making by pointing it out. Most people in this country are not black either. And because of this fact we used to hold them as slaves, and for many decades after we finally found enough morality to stop this vile practice we still refused them the right to vote or to marry a person of another race. Majority populations have always enslaved, murdered, abused, and marginalized minority populations. This is why we refer to the contempt for homosexuals as bigotry…because it is.

  • Dennis Irwin

    I don’t know what skin color has to do with making babies….but I guess you must. All I know is if too many men want to do men instead of women…..we’re screwed. Black or white be damned. Is this really that hard to figure out?

  • Gary

    Nope…you simply say He changed the rules you don’t like but that He still enforces the rules you do like. Sorry…but that is very lazy logic and now it is you who is getting sloppy.

    If you want to be “real”…you’re going to have to bring your A game.

  • Gary

    I’m going to bed. Hopefully tomorrow you can bring some sense to you position.

  • Dennis Irwin

    Of course Lima Beans never try to convince me or my family that it’s normal to eat them.

  • Nick Gotts

    Your ignorance really is astounding in its scope. First, the world’s problem is too many people, not too few. Second, it is quite possible for gay people to have children, and many do. Have you really never heard of artificial insemination?

  • Nick Gotts

    No: a bigot is someone who devalues a group of people for an intrinsic characteristic which harms no-one else, such as their race, gender, or sexual orientation. As you do, continually.

  • Nick Gotts

    It “grosses them out” because they are taught this hatred which you share and propagate. In societies where it is not taught, it withers away, as it is, fortunately, doing in western societies now. I understand you feel the need to cling on to this hate, but you’re losing. The shift in attitudes in the past few decades has been huge – which clearly refutes your belief that people are “built” to hate as you do.

  • Guest

    Your inability to grasp even the most basic of points (as is evidenced by your insult above based upon a rather comical lack of ability to follow the point) has made this discussion pointless. Further I believe you think this is all some sort of game. It is not a game…it is one of the most important issues facing the church today. Fortunately your kind of ignorant bigotry is dying out and common sense and human decency are beginning to win. You, however, are totally unwilling to discuss the issue with any sense of reason and I will waste no more time on you.

  • Gary

    Nice try Steve. But it is still a dodge to any challenge which would threaten your point of view. There is MUCH in our translations that is less than accurate. There is also outright mistakes, errors, forgeries, and simple contradictory human opinion.

    Your demeaning attack on my motives is all that fundamentalists seem to have left when challenged.

    Sadly typical.

  • Gary

    Have you had a lot of gay people telling you that gay sex would be “normal” for you and your family? I may have missed it…but I just don’t seem to remember anyone attempting to tell hetero-sexuals that homosexual attraction is what THEY should feel.

  • Gary

    If you don’t know what the comparison is between racial bigotry and homosexual bigotry…then you are either incredibly blind or simply engaging in a tactic of willful denial. If you can’t answer the point just pretend it does not exist. This illustrates why bigotry is losing the battle in this country. (Thankfully) At some point common sense and basic human decency wins.

  • Steven Waling

    Also, of course, it might be good to remember that this particular story is curiously absent from earlier manuscripts, and various other manuscripts put it in different parts of John. And of course there’s the fact that john’s Gospel is much more of an interpretation of Jesus’ teaching than direct quotes from him. But let’s not let textual criticism get in the way of our bigoted interpretations of scripture eh?

  • Gary

    Exactly Steven. And one reliable source has it but without the final comment present by Jesus at all. Not only does the comment not fit with any of Jesus other teaching, it does not even fit the flow of the story it was supposedly included in. And I am called an idiot (comment removed by moderator) for believing I have the right to question something in the bible. (Ironic isn’t it…that the one’s who think for themselves are portrayed as idiots) And in the revision of the comment below I am told I simply want to do whatever I damn well please. Well one thing I can say with certainty. I would rather do as I please then do as I am told I must by some fundamentalist. At least I know my motives are trustworthy. LOL

  • Dennis Irwin

    Actually I have (gay uncle in the family), but that’s not my point. Last year at my daughters high school there was this fight over a book describing “2 dads” as normal and it was wrong to think otherwise. That ‘s what I’m talking about. I said it before…..what goes on in the bedroom, I couldn’t care less. But stop trying to influence people. Especially my kids at a public school.

  • Dennis Irwin

    Hatred? Like racism, that word’s getting ruined by folks like you. When you use it in wrong context…..it loses it’s meaning.

  • Nick Gotts

    Hmm – you realize you’ve just told me people consider you a racist as well as a homophobic bigot?

  • Gary

    As I said…no one is telling you YOUR family should have “2 dads”, only that you should be tolerant of those who who are gay. It IS normal for them.

    And frankly…”I couldn’t care less” that you don’t want your kids to hear the message of tolerance. Religious bigots have been aggressively screaming the message of intolerance and contempt for the GLBT community and seeking to legislate against them and classify them as 2nd class citizens in every venue they can make their voices heard. The message is going to continue to be told and bigots are going to continue to be confronted. This is the only way this oppressed group will gain equal freedoms.

  • Dennis Irwin

    Man, you’re hard to keep up with Gary….don’t you work?! lol

    I’m not sure what “freedoms” I have that a gay man doesn’t?

    Irony…..the bigot: I’m actually an adult Sunday School teacher with about 30 folks attending ages 17 – 65. I teach that a gay person in no more going to hell than a gossiper (which I’m sure you know Gary, the church is full of!). I’ve debated my Pastor (who I love) and some of my close friends. I’m the Gay Defender! lol I bring this up because even though I believe what I teach is true, I cannot deny that the God does not like homosexuality. I’ve mostly argued with you about homosexuality from a biological point of view. It’s gross. But…..1 Cor 6:9-11. ” Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” I believe he is talking about people who don’t know Christ as their Savior…so like I said I don’t necessarily believe gay folks are going to hell. But it sure seems like God doesn’t like dudes doing dudes. Which is why he made it gross for most of us!!!

  • Gary

    You don’t know what freedoms you have a gay man does not? Seriously…you are being deliberately deceiving here. Obviously you can fall in love and get married whereas in most of this country a gay man cannot. And don’t give me that fucking bullshit that a gay man can marry a woman so therefore he has the same freedom. You have babbled on and on about how you are repulsed by homosexuality. Well guess what Einstein…most homosexuals have no attraction for the opposite sex…some even find it repulsive. I have a close friend who has been in a committed gay relationship for more than 30 years…yet he is not entitled to marriage and all the legal and social protections that come with it.

    In case you have not guessed it…I am totally fed up with the fucking bullshit that comes from people like you who DARE to declare they represent God. And your nonsense about being “the gay defender”. Guess what…they don’t need YOUR kind of defense…and God does not need your kind of representation.

  • Dennis Irwin

    None of that has anything to do with marriage……change the tax code not marriage.

  • Gary

    Your complete refusal to engage with any intellectual integrity has made any effort to have productive dialogue with you completely impossible. I’m done with you bullshit!!

  • newenglandsun

    Add to the fact that the whole “sex must be reproductive” argument is entirely medieval. Albeit, in Platonic philosophy would have been considered “unnatural” or “contrary to nature” but that was because of the whole reproductive aspect. Not because it was viewed as evil. (Reading a JSTOR article on the subject of Platonic philosophy in Paul.)

  • Charlotte Norton

    “I know I was physically built by God to be with a woman to make babies”
    The problem with this is that some people are naturally infertile, or are somehow incompatible with their spouse and can’t have children, or are gay and just not attracted to people of the opposite sex however hard they try. These things are “natural” too. So yes, God may have created you to have babies, that might be a massive part of his call on your life, but maybe that’s not true for everyone? Maybe other people have other calls that are equally valid?

  • Charlotte Norton

    What did the Romans ever do for us” LOL!

  • Charlotte Norton

    You’re sort of assuming that people decide to be gay and that they convert other people to it. Gay people are a small minority. The majority of the population are off being heterosexual and making babies to overpopulate the world. Oh, and FYI, gay people can and do make babies too. So I would stop pretending that this is about you worrying that the human race is going to fizzle out because some people are gay and admit that you just don’t like gay people.


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