13 Things I Like About Scientologists

As today is Dianetics Day I figure it’s time to pick up this series again. Along with the Buddhists and Hindus, Scientology is one religion I still need to tick off my list for the series. This is going to be incredibly difficult because I honestly have very little love for Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard. Bear with me and please forgive if the occasional snark slips out.

13. Reincarnation

Ok, so my personal belief in reincarnation doesn’t involve distant planets but I have to give props to folks who also believe this ain’t our first rodeo.

12. Nerve

The Fair Game Doctrine, extensive use of litigation and sheer aggressiveness in protecting itself, I gotta give Scientology credit. They’re wily and scrappy, and while I don’t always agree with how that manifests I do have to admire the cojones.

11. The Cross

It’s pretty.

10. Dianetics

Reading about Dianetics reminds me of some of the Reclaiming and more healing/therapy oriented forms of Witchcraft I read about when I was younger. Whether you’re trying to erase engrams or confront the Guardian on the Threshold, this use of religion as psychotherapy seems familiar. I would imagine there are some Pagan groups engaged in “clearing” activities similar to Dianetics without even realizing it.

9. They Have Worse Movies Than We Do

Sure, apparently Nicholas Cage is the bane of our existence, but at least we didn’t fund and star in a horrible film associated with us. Before you start dumping on Thor or The Wicker Tree, take a deep breath and give thanks it wasn’t Battlefield Earth.

8. They Make Us Look Normal

Reaching out for suggestions, a lot of Pagans told me this was the thing they like best about Scientology. Any day men in suits seem odder than men in tie-dye skirts is a good day in my book.

7. Service Organizations

Narconon, Volunteer Ministers and other service organization seem to be a key part of their organization. Service to humanity is an aim I can support.

6. Man is Basically Good

As someone who believes passionately that humanity is good, born good and dies good, I can support this. I also like the part of their creed that says no one may destroy or enslave another soul.

5. The Prayer for Total Freedom

May the author of the universe enable all men to reach an understanding of their spiritual nature.

May awareness and understanding of life expand, so that all may come to know the author of the universe.

And may others also reach this understanding which brings Total Freedom.

At this time, we think of those whose liberty is threatened; of those who have suffered imprisonment for their beliefs; of those who are enslaved or martyred, and for all those who are brutalized, trapped or attacked.

We pray that human rights will be preserved so that all people may believe and worship freely, so that freedom will once again be seen in our land.

Freedom from war, and poverty, and want; freedom to be; freedom to do and freedom to have.

Freedom to use and understand Man’s potential—a potential that is God-given and Godlike.

And freedom to achieve that understanding and awareness that is Total Freedom.

May God let it be so.

4. Freedom of Religion

Scientology has freedom of religion as part of it’s code: “12. To support the freedom of religion.

3. Keeps Anonymous Busy

Because seriously, a day when Anonymous doesn’t notice you is a good day. HBGary and Bank of America can vouch for this.

2. Self-Determination

This concept is very similar to the concept of Will in Witchcraft and Ceremonial Magick. Although reports of their practices seem to differ with this concept, if they truly are about strengthening individual Will, then I have to say I’m all for that.

1. John Travolta

How can you not absolutely love John Travolta? He’s a great actor, a fabulous dancer, good looking, funny and from all accounts a really kind and loving human being. He even makes archangels look smoking hot.

If you enjoyed this check out the posts on Protestant Christianity, Catholicism, Mormonism, Judaism, Islam and Paganism in this series!

About Star Foster

Polytheistic Wiccan initiated into the Ravenwood tradition, she has many opinions. Some of them are actually useful.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Geo-Caliban/100001546047372 Geo Caliban

    The Scientology Prayer to Total Freedom is one of my very favorites. Glad to see you published it here. I don’t know much about Wiccan or Pagan religions apart from the myths and legends I loved when I was growing up, but I believe we share a commitment to do something about the mess that is being made of our home–Planet Earth. May 9th is a very important day to me, as a Scientologist. In Dianetics, the publication of which Scientologists celebrate today, as you correctly state, L. Ron Hubbard points survival is the dynamic principle of existence — what all life is doing–and that the individual does not survive alone but in cooperation with all living things. Dianetics and Scientology are a study of wisdom and its practical application to living a better life. It is a way to tap your own true spirituality and help promoting the welfare and happiness of every aspect of life. Hope this helps to clarify our beliefs.

    • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

      I should have listed environmentalism. Thanks for the reminder!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Geo-Caliban/100001546047372 Geo Caliban

    The Scientology Prayer to Total Freedom is one of my very favorites. Glad to see you published it here. I don’t know much about Wiccan or Pagan religions apart from the myths and legends I loved when I was growing up, but I believe we share a commitment to do something about the mess that is being made of our home–Planet Earth. May 9th is a very important day to me, as a Scientologist. In Dianetics, the publication of which Scientologists celebrate today, as you correctly state, L. Ron Hubbard points survival is the dynamic principle of existence — what all life is doing–and that the individual does not survive alone but in cooperation with all living things. Dianetics and Scientology are a study of wisdom and its practical application to living a better life. It is a way to tap your own true spirituality and help promoting the welfare and happiness of every aspect of life. Hope this helps to clarify our beliefs.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Geo-Caliban/100001546047372 Geo Caliban

    The Scientology Prayer to Total Freedom is one of my very favorites. Glad to see you published it here. I don’t know much about Wiccan or Pagan religions apart from the myths and legends I loved when I was growing up, but I believe we share a commitment to do something about the mess that is being made of our home–Planet Earth. May 9th is a very important day to me, as a Scientologist. In Dianetics, the publication of which Scientologists celebrate today, as you correctly state, L. Ron Hubbard points survival is the dynamic principle of existence — what all life is doing–and that the individual does not survive alone but in cooperation with all living things. Dianetics and Scientology are a study of wisdom and its practical application to living a better life. It is a way to tap your own true spirituality and help promoting the welfare and happiness of every aspect of life. Hope this helps to clarify our beliefs.

    • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

      I should have listed environmentalism. Thanks for the reminder!

      • http://profiles.google.com/free.wu.kapauw Wu Kapauw

        Star, I hope you will take my comment in the constructive spirit in which it is intended. Slightly long, but here you have it:

        In brief, I think you should have done a bit more homework before publishing what is essentially a puff promo piece for an abusive business scam. Your light-hearted tone skims over the fact that, by repeating fluffy Scientology advertising factoids, you are inadvertently lending your own good name to an organization that mentally and financially hurts those who get sucked into it. I have no problem with anyone believing whatever they wish, but when that translates into actions such as human trafficking and criminal infiltration of government agencies, that crosses a line for me.

        Putting aside Scientology as a “belief system” – if in fact you do not come to the conclusion, as many have, that it is a consciously-designed money scam that Hubbard built for his own game, this organization behaves in a disturbing and criminal manner. I can’t imagine that any freethinking Pagan would want to support a group that acts like Amway while cloaking themselves in spurious sprirituality.

        Just my $0.02, and I hope all the discussion your post has inspired will provoke you and others to find out all they can about Scientology – just don’t expect to get the facts from one of its adherents!

        • http://www.scientologymyths.info/ Louanne

          “I hope all the discussion your post has inspired will provoke you and others to find out all they can about Scientology – just don’t expect to get the facts from one of its adherents!” 

          LOL, sounds more like you fear that someone actually talks to a Scientologist or takes a tour in one of our Churches. But don’t you worry, actual Scientology books are actually a much better source and you can get them in public libraries or Scientology reading rooms. 

      • Anon

        The Scientology ship, Freewinds, has been repeatedly cited for dumping waste water (including raw sewage) in the open ocean. The Sea Org (Scientology’s abusive para-navy organization) has also persistently refused to remove blue asbestos from the ship, despite the fact that its use is exclusively passenger-oriented.

  • dagobarbz


    7. Service Organizations
    Narconon, Volunteer
    Ministers and other service organization seem to be a key part of their
    organization. Service to humanity is an aim I can support.”

    Unfortunately, Narconon, Applied Scholastics and Youth For Human Rights are all sham organizations meant to expose the unsuspecting to Scientology beliefs.

    Google ‘Narconon fraud’ and see the truth about this “service organization.” Their practice of this junk science costs clients tens of thousands of dollars USD. The program itself endangers the health of those subjected to it.

    • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

      So is Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity and the Salvation Army. Pick on one, you have to pick on them all.

      • dagobarbz

        “So is…” what? Do they have fake medical programs they charge thousands of dollars for? Dox, please. Back up your assertions; afaik Sally gives away clothing and food to the needy. I don’t recall them charging for the service. That’s why they’re a charity, something Scientology teaches is a Bad Thing. Rewarding the downstat is a no-no in Scientology’s alternative reality bubble.

        • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

          Less than 12% of the millions Mother Teresa raised actually went to charity. That’s stealing if you ask me.

          As far as fake medical programs, Pagans, New Agers and Christian Scientists could be accused of the same thing.

          If you have a chip on your shoulder take it elsewhere. This isn’t the place for it.

          • dagobarbz

            12%? Sheesh. There are websites that rate charities. Legally, you only have to donate 2% and the rest can go to administration or whatever they decide.

            Google Narconon fraud before continuing this convo. Really. This is a very organized example of medical fraud. And just because some New Agers do it too does not justify it.

          • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

            Dude, not my job to prove your argument. Be civil. Don’t attack people on my blog. Thanks.

        • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

          Less than 12% of the millions Mother Teresa raised actually went to charity. That’s stealing if you ask me.

          As far as fake medical programs, Pagans, New Agers and Christian Scientists could be accused of the same thing.

          If you have a chip on your shoulder take it elsewhere. This isn’t the place for it.

    • Louanne

      Barb, my dearest troll, as usual you omit a minor detail called “evidence.”

  • dagobarbz


    7. Service Organizations
    Narconon, Volunteer
    Ministers and other service organization seem to be a key part of their
    organization. Service to humanity is an aim I can support.”

    Unfortunately, Narconon, Applied Scholastics and Youth For Human Rights are all sham organizations meant to expose the unsuspecting to Scientology beliefs.

    Google ‘Narconon fraud’ and see the truth about this “service organization.” Their practice of this junk science costs clients tens of thousands of dollars USD. The program itself endangers the health of those subjected to it.

    • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

      So is Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity and the Salvation Army. Pick on one, you have to pick on them all.

      • dagobarbz

        “So is…” what? Do they have fake medical programs they charge thousands of dollars for? Dox, please. Back up your assertions; afaik Sally gives away clothing and food to the needy. I don’t recall them charging for the service. That’s why they’re a charity, something Scientology teaches is a Bad Thing. Rewarding the downstat is a no-no in Scientology’s alternative reality bubble.

        • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

          Less than 12% of the millions Mother Teresa raised actually went to charity. That’s stealing if you ask me.

          As far as fake medical programs, Pagans, New Agers and Christian Scientists could be accused of the same thing.

          If you have a chip on your shoulder take it elsewhere. This isn’t the place for it.

          • dagobarbz

            12%? Sheesh. There are websites that rate charities. Legally, you only have to donate 2% and the rest can go to administration or whatever they decide.

            Google Narconon fraud before continuing this convo. Really. This is a very organized example of medical fraud. And just because some New Agers do it too does not justify it.

          • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

            Dude, not my job to prove your argument. Be civil. Don’t attack people on my blog. Thanks.

          • dagobarbz

            I’m sorry, I apparently mistook you for a blogger. My sources prove my argument, yet somehow you misinterpret my suggestion to google as some sort of attack.

    • http://www.scientologymyths.info/ Louanne

      Barb, my dearest troll, as usual you omit a minor detail called “evidence.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/jannekebrouwers Janneke Brouwers

    I had to laugh so loud when I read no. 9. I haven’t seen the movie but I’ll take your word for it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jannekebrouwers Janneke Brouwers

    I had to laugh so loud when I read no. 9. I haven’t seen the movie but I’ll take your word for it.

  • Cheryl_duncan

    Thanks so much for acknowledging Dianetics Day. L. Ron Hubbard is the man! http://www.lronhubbard.org. The key to know is that he was an explorer–carried Explorer’s Club flag three times. He explored the human mind (Dianetics), then found there was more to it and explored the human spirit (Scientology). And he ensured that he left workable methodologies that people could use for spiritual gain.

    • Louanne Lee

      what Cheryl no mention about the entire racist anti-semitic homophobic Nation of Islam drinking the dianetics Kool-Aid.

      and I thought you still work for Scientology’s Public Relations

      • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

        Excuse me? What part of be civil on this blog don’t you understand?

    • truthtime

      L. ron hubbard was (and is, if he’s indeed reincarnated, and if so, where IS he?) a sociopath. He is most definitely NOT the man. Neither is John Travolta, for that matter…

    • Out after 26 years in SCN

      Problem is that the man who currently runs L Ron Hubbard’s technology, the person at the top, has destroyed the tech by where you cannot freely talk, you cannot freely relate to whom ever you want, you must tow the line and operate just like everyone else. If you dare to complain about anything, you are immediately pulled in to be questioned and you have to pay for that. Hubbard had some wonderful insights to life and it was a hope for mankind. The current leader has all but destroyed any chance of it being used to help mankind in the future. He uses Sea org labor for pet projects to benefit his friend Tom Cruise or his own lavish lifestyle while it has been 25 years or more since he has been in session or training. Scientology has turned into a money grubbing PR glitz parade where buildings are more important than people who are discarded easily if they don’t fit in lock step with der leader. Sad, isn’t it. Everything you hate about Scientology comes from that man. He is destroying it all while pretending to be its only savior.

  • Cheryl_duncan

    Thanks so much for acknowledging Dianetics Day. L. Ron Hubbard is the man! http://www.lronhubbard.org. The key to know is that he was an explorer–carried Explorer’s Club flag three times. He explored the human mind (Dianetics), then found there was more to it and explored the human spirit (Scientology). And he ensured that he left workable methodologies that people could use for spiritual gain.

    • Louanne Lee

      what Cheryl no mention about the entire racist anti-semitic homophobic Nation of Islam drinking the dianetics Kool-Aid.

      and I thought you still work for Scientology’s Public Relations

      • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

        Excuse me? What part of be civil on this blog don’t you understand?

    • truthtime

      L. ron hubbard was (and is, if he’s indeed reincarnated, and if so, where IS he?) a sociopath. He is most definitely NOT the man. Neither is John Travolta, for that matter…

    • Out after 26 years in SCN

      Problem is that the man who currently runs L Ron Hubbard’s technology, the person at the top, has destroyed the tech by where you cannot freely talk, you cannot freely relate to whom ever you want, you must tow the line and operate just like everyone else. If you dare to complain about anything, you are immediately pulled in to be questioned and you have to pay for that. Hubbard had some wonderful insights to life and it was a hope for mankind. The current leader has all but destroyed any chance of it being used to help mankind in the future. He uses Sea org labor for pet projects to benefit his friend Tom Cruise or his own lavish lifestyle while it has been 25 years or more since he has been in session or training. Scientology has turned into a money grubbing PR glitz parade where buildings are more important than people who are discarded easily if they don’t fit in lock step with der leader. Sad, isn’t it. Everything you hate about Scientology comes from that man. He is destroying it all while pretending to be its only savior.

  • Brussell1000

    Scientology is mental illness run amuck. It’s kind of funny, except for the suicides it causes; enslaving people; and ruining lives and tearing apart families. Then it’s not so funny.

    • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

      You could change that first word to Paganism and find similar comments on other forums.

      Please be civil.

      • http://twitter.com/ouranophobe Áine

        Star, thank you for pointing out that, really, any religion can have the same attacks levelled at them. it’s not the religion, it’s what people who happen to follow it choose to do. I’m sure the Scientologists have folks they’d like to disavow, just as we do.

        • William

          Except that with Scientology it isn’t just fringe individuals causing damage, it’s the actions of a well-funded institution. Seriously, learn something about them before lumping them in as “just another religion.” Think what you want of Anonymous, but they’re not against Scientology just for the “lulz.”

          • William

            Quick clarification: I’m not referring to anyone’s religious beliefs or practices, only the verifiable actions of the organization.

  • Brussell1000

    Scientology is mental illness run amuck. It’s kind of funny, except for the suicides it causes; enslaving people; and ruining lives and tearing apart families. Then it’s not so funny.

    • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

      You could change that first word to Paganism and find similar comments on other forums.

      Please be civil.

      • http://twitter.com/ouranophobe Áine

        Star, thank you for pointing out that, really, any religion can have the same attacks levelled at them. it’s not the religion, it’s what people who happen to follow it choose to do. I’m sure the Scientologists have folks they’d like to disavow, just as we do.

        • William

          Except that with Scientology it isn’t just fringe individuals causing damage, it’s the actions of a well-funded institution. Seriously, learn something about them before lumping them in as “just another religion.” Think what you want of Anonymous, but they’re not against Scientology just for the “lulz.”

          • William

            Quick clarification: I’m not referring to anyone’s religious beliefs or practices, only the verifiable actions of the organization.

      • Anon

        There is a significant difference between the specific actions of individual adherents, over which an organization may have no control, and for which it cannot be held liable, and the actions of the organization itself, particularly if they follow from its institutionalized practices.

        The abuses within Paganism, of which you speak, are an example of the former; the actions of the Church of Scientology, many of which are well documented in the public record and through investigative news reports, are very decidedly an example of the latter.

  • http://kauko-niskala.blogspot.com Kauko

    LOL at #3. I haven’t been able to play Everquest 2 for over a week now since Sony has taken everything down after the Anonymous hack they had last month. Still no ETA on when it will be back up. On the other hand it’s been kind of nice to be free of that timesink and be able to get productive things done instead.

  • http://kauko-niskala.blogspot.com Kauko

    LOL at #3. I haven’t been able to play Everquest 2 for over a week now since Sony has taken everything down after the Anonymous hack they had last month. Still no ETA on when it will be back up. On the other hand it’s been kind of nice to be free of that timesink and be able to get productive things done instead.

  • jaundicedi

    Since Hubbard studied Thelema under Jack Parsons before he ever thought of Dianetics the areas he has in common with Western magical traditions shouldn’t surprise anyone.

    • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

      Fascinating. I never knew that!

      • Anon

        Yes, Hubbard was quite taken with certain aspects of Paganism and the Occult (technical term, not the slang understanding) especially in his youth.

        Hubbard’s (many and often sensational) lies regarding his past/biography include early claims of having been personally endorsed and supported in his “research” by Aleister Crowley.

        Hubbard would later change his story and deny all of these connections, even those which true history verifies. A 1969 statement, authored by Hubbard and released by Church of Scientology,
        claims instead that “Hubbard broke up black magic in America….”

        In any case, while some of Hubbard’s less significant connections to Pagan/Occult leaders are verifiable, the more remarkable claims in that area have been debunked, along with many others. Hubbard was neither supported by, nor the vanquisher of, Crowley or “black magic.

      • Louanne

        Sorry to chime in here. I am getting a little tired reading the same old unfounded bias (it always is unfounded, innit) of those who call themselves Anonymous. On this one: Yes, Hubbard was aware of Crowley’s philosophy and there are several lectures where he talks about that, sometimes mockingly, sometimes to explain his understanding to it to the audience. He has studied, practiced and tested many philosophies and viewpoints, enjoyed correspondence with strange and not so strange people and always talked about it openly and on record. Fanatics and those blinded by hate seem to be unable understand what Scientology is, or at least be willing to study the relevant parts of it, so here is a reminder, from lronhubbard.org:

        An applied religious philosophy, Scientology is contained in hundreds of books and more than 3,000 tape-recorded lectures. All told, these works represent a statement of Man’s nature and potential, and even if echoed in various ancient scriptures, that statement is absolutely unique. Among the essential tenets of the Scientology philosophy: Man is an immortal spiritual being; his experience extends well beyond a single lifetime and his capabilities are unlimited even if not presently realized. In that sense, Scientology represents what may be the ultimate definition of a religion; not a system of beliefs but a means of spiritual transformation.

        Or, as Hubbard put it:

        “The technologies with which we can bring about a new state of being in Man are new. But the basic idea, the basic hope of Man as it appears today in Scientology is thousands of years old. If we call Scientology a religion, we are calling it a religion out of a much deeper well than the last two thousand years.”

        —L. Ron Hubbard

  • jaundicedi

    Since Hubbard studied Thelema under Jack Parsons before he ever thought of Dianetics the areas he has in common with Western magical traditions shouldn’t surprise anyone.

    • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

      Fascinating. I never knew that!

      • Anon

        Yes, Hubbard was quite taken with certain aspects of Paganism and the Occult (technical term, not the slang understanding) especially in his youth.

        Hubbard’s (many and often sensational) lies regarding his past/biography include early claims of having been personally endorsed and supported in his “research” by Aleister Crowley.

        Hubbard would later change his story and deny all of these connections, even those which true history verifies. A 1969 statement, authored by Hubbard and released by Church of Scientology,
        claims instead that “Hubbard broke up black magic in America….”

        In any case, while some of Hubbard’s less significant connections to Pagan/Occult leaders are verifiable, the more remarkable claims in that area have been debunked, along with many others. Hubbard was neither supported by, nor the vanquisher of, Crowley or “black magic.

      • http://www.scientologymyths.info/ Louanne

        Sorry to chime in here. I am getting a little tired reading the same old unfounded bias (it always is unfounded, innit) of those who call themselves Anonymous. On this one: Yes, Hubbard was aware of Crowley’s philosophy and there are several lectures where he talks about that, sometimes mockingly, sometimes to explain his understanding of it to the audience. He has studied, practiced and tested many philosophies and viewpoints, enjoyed correspondence with strange and not so strange people and always talked about it openly and on record. Fanatics and those blinded by hate seem to be unable understand what Scientology is, or at least be willing to study the relevant parts of it, so here is a reminder, from lronhubbard.org:

        An applied religious philosophy, Scientology is contained in hundreds of books and more than 3,000 tape-recorded lectures. All told, these works represent a statement of Man’s nature and potential, and even if echoed in various ancient scriptures, that statement is absolutely unique. Among the essential tenets of the Scientology philosophy: Man is an immortal spiritual being; his experience extends well beyond a single lifetime and his capabilities are unlimited even if not presently realized. In that sense, Scientology represents what may be the ultimate definition of a religion; not a system of beliefs but a means of spiritual transformation.

        Or, as Hubbard put it:

        “The technologies with which we can bring about a new state of being in Man are new. But the basic idea, the basic hope of Man as it appears today in Scientology is thousands of years old. If we call Scientology a religion, we are calling it a religion out of a much deeper well than the last two thousand years.”

        —L. Ron Hubbard

    • Anonymous

      Nothing of LRH’s is original.

  • SFF

    “4. Freedom of Religion”
    This only means that the Church of Scientology is entitled to freedom of religion. Look how they treat people who try to practice Scientology outside their official church:
    http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/04/when_scientolog.php

    • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

      I never realized they were anti-squirrel. Is that like how Discordians are anti-hot dog bun?

      I think I want a camera hat and squirrel t-shirt to go door to door spreading the Good News of The Morrigan.

      • SFF

        So, an ex-member trying to practice outside the church has four people travel from California and Florida to attempt to harass and intimidate his parishioner and you’re seeing it as a funny video about people with squirrels on their shirts?

        Incidentally, Discordians are both prohibited from eating hot dog buns and required to do so. Fortunately, both strictures can be ignored as Discordians are not allowed to believe anything they read.

        • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

          Yup. I kinda do. I’d have called the cops first. Grown men mutually video-taping their peeing contest is funny.

    • Louanne

       ”SquirrelBusters”. By the looks of it it’s a prank but I thought no one should be left with a question what a “Squirrel” is. And I don’t mean those flat pieces of bloody fur you sometimes see on high-traffic roads, no, I am talking about the definition of a Scientology squirrel. As Scientology is built on the findings and teachings of L. Ron Hubbard it might be best to show what he said about them:

      You know what a squirrel is?  A squirrel is somebody — you know, the medical profession since time immemorial and all these various professions have had on their coattails, squirrels.  Every one of them.  There hasn’t been a single branch of human endeavor that doesn’t have its lunatic fringe.  (L. Ron Hubbard, 5 December 1952, Lecture “ARC/Cycles: Theory and Automaticity)

      Although we’ve had other definitions for a squirrel, that’s the one I commonly use to myself. A squirrel is somebody who runs round and round and round the cage of his own bank. (L. Ron Hubbard, 23 November 1956, Lecture: “Farewell Lecture”)

      A squirrel is a person — a person who’s going around looking for nuts that are foolish enough to let him process them.  (L. Ron Hubbard, 6 April 1959, Lecture: “Beingness and Communication”)

      But why would Scientologists be so concerned with  them? It’s for the protection of people. Maybe this one explains it best:

      Here is the guy who plans to “squirrel” and “grab Scientology.” Here is the boy.  Or here is the girl.  But here is also a thetan buried in the mud.  And if you let this person go without attention, he or she will soon become ill or die — or worse will mess up or kill others.  The person is the only real psycho.  And if you let him drift he’ll soon wind up in the brain surgeon’s suppressive hands.  So it’s nothing to overlook.  People who have to solve their problems by shooting the rest of us down are what made life such a hell in this universe. You have your hands on the implanter, the warmonger, the wrecker. (L. Ron Hubbard, Policy Letter of 5 April 1965, titled “The No-Case-Gain Student”)

  • SFF

    “4. Freedom of Religion”
    This only means that the Church of Scientology is entitled to freedom of religion. Look how they treat people who try to practice Scientology outside their official church:
    http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/04/when_scientolog.php

    • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

      I never realized they were anti-squirrel. Is that like how Discordians are anti-hot dog bun?

      I think I want a camera hat and squirrel t-shirt to go door to door spreading the Good News of The Morrigan.

      • SFF

        So, an ex-member trying to practice outside the church has four people travel from California and Florida to attempt to harass and intimidate his parishioner and you’re seeing it as a funny video about people with squirrels on their shirts?

        Incidentally, Discordians are both prohibited from eating hot dog buns and required to do so. Fortunately, both strictures can be ignored as Discordians are not allowed to believe anything they read.

        • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

          Yup. I kinda do. I’d have called the cops first. Grown men mutually video-taping their peeing contest is funny.

    • http://www.scientologymyths.info/ Louanne

       ”SquirrelBusters”. By the looks of it it’s a prank but I thought no one should be left with a question what a “Squirrel” is. And I don’t mean those flat pieces of bloody fur you sometimes see on high-traffic roads, no, I am talking about the definition of a Scientology squirrel. As Scientology is built on the findings and teachings of L. Ron Hubbard it might be best to show what he said about them:

      You know what a squirrel is?  A squirrel is somebody — you know, the medical profession since time immemorial and all these various professions have had on their coattails, squirrels.  Every one of them.  There hasn’t been a single branch of human endeavor that doesn’t have its lunatic fringe.  (L. Ron Hubbard, 5 December 1952, Lecture “ARC/Cycles: Theory and Automaticity)

      Although we’ve had other definitions for a squirrel, that’s the one I commonly use to myself. A squirrel is somebody who runs round and round and round the cage of his own bank. (L. Ron Hubbard, 23 November 1956, Lecture: “Farewell Lecture”)

      A squirrel is a person — a person who’s going around looking for nuts that are foolish enough to let him process them.  (L. Ron Hubbard, 6 April 1959, Lecture: “Beingness and Communication”)

      But why would Scientologists be so concerned with  them? It’s for the protection of people. Maybe this one explains it best:

      Here is the guy who plans to “squirrel” and “grab Scientology.” Here is the boy.  Or here is the girl.  But here is also a thetan buried in the mud.  And if you let this person go without attention, he or she will soon become ill or die — or worse will mess up or kill others.  The person is the only real psycho.  And if you let him drift he’ll soon wind up in the brain surgeon’s suppressive hands.  So it’s nothing to overlook.  People who have to solve their problems by shooting the rest of us down are what made life such a hell in this universe. You have your hands on the implanter, the warmonger, the wrecker. (L. Ron Hubbard, Policy Letter of 5 April 1965, titled “The No-Case-Gain Student”)

  • Billwheaton

    Volcanoes, Aliens, quaint Telephony, what’s not to love.

  • Billwheaton

    Volcanoes, Aliens, quaint Telephony, what’s not to love.

  • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

    @facebook-100001546047372:disqus Except for the things about Dianetics “Being on the order of, but simpler than Physics” “yet it is a precise in it’s axioms.”-Dianetics

    So is scientology religious or secular? because the book seller at my local mall told me they were not religious at all.

    If it’s religious why did your book seller lie to me?

    If it’s secular why do OTs wear glasses if the Dianetics Release “will not Relapse” and “if his vision was poor as an aboree, he will find his vision is improved significantly be removing the engrams.”?

    • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

      It’s obviously a religion. Did you buy the book at Barnes & Noble? Perhaps the clerk was ignorant.

      • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

        Nope. I got it from a cart with Dianetics, and a stress test. I asked them if the book had anything to do with Scientology and they said “Dianetics and Scientology are two different subjects Dianetics is a therapy aiming to improve the mind and Scientology is a religion aiming to improve the spirit so its two completely different subjects like night and day”

        And btw for you Sci’s that might be lurking… this was straight from the Head of the Public Bookseller’s Mouth.
        So tell me what’s going on …. Please!

        • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

          Dianetics is a practice. Scientology is a religion.

          Witchcraft is a practice. Wicca is a religion.

          Prayer is a practice. Catholicism is a religion.

          Yoga is a practice. Hinduism is religion.

          • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

            So prayer, that catholics practice are two completely different subjects like night and day?

            Yoga, practiced by Hindus are two completely different subjects like night and day

            Okay that’s true.

            But do Scientologists actually practice Dianetics? Which rundowns are titled Dianetics? It’s called “Auditing” not “practicing Dianetics.”

            And if Dianetics is so important… why is there only 1 book about it compared to http://www.newerapublications.com/ All of these other books. The only other books that mention Dianetics are about forming the thesis. And it still doesn’t answer why Dianetics and Scientology are two completely different subjects, like night and day.

            After all, you don’t need to be Hindu to practice Yoga, You don’t need to be Christian to pray, you don’t need to be Wiccan to use witchcraft..

            But doesn’t it always help? You probably won’t get the same thing out of yoga if you do not know how the practice is meant to help your religion.
            It’s harder to belief in Witchcraft if you do not learn the lore and understand being a Wiccan.

            So how many people “practice” Dianetics that aren’t Scientologists? And still, if it therapy seperate from a religion (like Yoga) then why do they state that my eyesight will improve?

          • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

            You obviously have a chip on your shoulder and are ignorant about spiritual practices. If you need to rant and rave about Scientology there are forums better suited to that.

          • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

            I’m not ranting and raving. Just trying to get a simple answer that stands up… Why do they say Dianetics and Scientology are 2 different subjects?

            Dianetics in the book does not detail very many practices. If i pick up a book about “How to Yoga” they explain how to do it. Dianetics however isn’t “How to Dianetics” book, it doesn’t contain very many instructions, merely theories about how man is trying to survive, how species have suppressors and How the Goal of man is merely survival. This book doesn’t explain very much about how to use Dianetics to improve yourself, merely what the subject is about.

            Aside from all that… why does towards the end of “The goal of man” chapter LRH calls Christians and Romans 2 different Species?

          • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

            I suggest you go to a Scientology forum and find out. This is a Pagan blog and a friendly interfaith exercise.

          • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

            You are probably right I can’t find the answer here… but that was why I was trying to ask Geo Caliban. Since that person IS a scientologist. But they haven’t responded yet…. I guess I can play the waiting game. How long do you think it will take the person I cited to answer some questions about their beliefs? Or will they at All?

            Scilons Never want to play when their beliefs are on the line. That’s why they avoid us at protests. Even though they have a “Practice” to engage and shatter suppressors, or people that have questions about Scientology. The fact that they can’t come back here illustrates the point that in Essence, Scientologists are hypocrites who use their teachings as an excuse to harm those they deem “Suppressive”.

            Have you read their policy letters that allow them to trick sue and lie to people they don’t like? I think even Satanists don’t have texts that encourage practicing one thing (ethical) and then doing something else (lie and cheating).

          • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

            That proves you’re here to harass and not engage in actual dialogue, because you didn’t read my post.

            I cited and linked to an article on the Fair Game Doctrine in the post.

          • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

            Perhaps you read and did not comprehend? Such a policy excuses them and basically tells them it is okay to be a hypocrite and you still think that is something to like?

            Also again, my original comment was for a scientologist, to see if they could “clear up these misunderstoods”

            Basically my point in pointing out Fair game is not simply the litigatious nature in which it manifests, but how it is a direct order to misapply everything in the Scientology Creed in order to ruin those you want to.

            tl;dr Having Cojones is mutually exclusive from being hypocritical. I can respect big balls, but not when you accomplish it by not practicing what your Creed says you do.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Geo-Caliban/100001546047372 Geo Caliban

            Hi Anon Tron. Sorry I didn’t answer earlier. The “policy” you are referring to never authorized any such thing, and Hubbard has always stated no one may violate the law of the land. His point in writing Fair Game, which he canceled immediately on seeing it was misinterpreted, is that if someone commits serious, harmful acts and is therefore expelled from Scientology he or she can no longer claim the protection of the church. As to Scientology and Dianetics/religious or secular–I’m not an authority on this. I’m just an individual Scientologist. I can tell you this, though–when L. Ron Hubbard published Dianetics I think he believed he could help people enormously just by addressing the reactive mind–helping them overcome loss, stress, upsets and failures as well are illnesses and injuries brought on my or worsened by the mind. He continued his research and Scientology is addressed to the being himself and helping him gain awareness of his own spiritual nature. I don’t think Dianetics is “secular” but it will work whether you believe you are a spiritual being or not. If the bookseller told you Dianetics is secular I think that was wrong to do but he himself might not have understood. Also, when put on the spot, people can say odd things and from the tenor of your comments I would suspect you were giving him a hard time and trying to corner him. I may be wrong. That’s what I suspect.

      • SFF

        When Dianetics was released it was intended to be a new form of psychotherapy and claimed to be scientifically proven, though there has never been any data to support this.

        After rejection by the AMA, APA and other professional bodies and questions as to whether it should be subject to the same oversight as other therapies, it became Scientology and started talking about thetans and past lives.

        Dianetics has not been re-edited to incorporate Scientology religious ideas so it remains what it was in 1950 — a failed attempt at transforming the field of mental health following principles that have never been validated through any kind of rigorous testing. Two studies done in the 1950s that did not support Dianetics conclusions so there was no further collaboration with academia.

        So, the clerk was kind of right.

        The fact that the Church of Scientology will try and sell you on their religion if you like the self-help book is kind of beside the point.

        • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

          Dude, you don’t need to mansplain here. We can Google this stuff. We ain’t ignorant.

          Alcoholics Anonymous do the same thing but I don’t see you on a crusade against them.

          • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

            Alcoholics Anonymous doesn’t claim complete rehab, it’s up to the person that is putting in the effort. Does it help to talk about your problems in a group setting with people that understand your pains? yes it could. It’s not for everyone though, some people don’t like/need that. But if Alcoholics Anonymous started saying they were the AUTHORITIES of getting people off alcohol, I would have some problems. Oh btw Tom Cruise did say Scientology is the Authorities on the mind and getting people off drugs, which is still pertinent to my Dianetcs/ Scientology disconnect issue here.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_J6LDGFMY5ZWEEUBLPYO5SEVQFI Jeffrey Lebowski

            I had to Google ‘mansplain’… great word. Unfortunately I doubt men are clever enough to come up with a word for women not allowing themselves to ever lose an argument, ever…. I don’t have any facts to mansplain that, and I’ll hope no women come flog me for even suggesting such a preposterous idea.

          • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

            Oh please, I’ve mansplained myself plenty of times. Snidely implying sexism isn’t helpful.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_J6LDGFMY5ZWEEUBLPYO5SEVQFI Jeffrey Lebowski

            Call off the dogs, Star! I was only jokin’ around…. I just found the word entertaining and plan to use it on my wife ASAP!

          • SFF

            You told another poster, ”
            Dude, not my job to prove your argument,” so I assumed I had to explain. :)

            Also, I fail to see the connection to AA. AA claims no scientific basis and no specific success rates. It certainly doesn’t claim a direct causal relationship between following their method and controlling alcoholism, let alone claiming it will increase your eyesight, increase your IQ and rid you of a wide variety of illnesses. AA has been generally cooperative with studies into its effectiveness.

            Additionally, the 12 steps are pretty much all there is to AA. You won’t find that after you’ve done them, there are an additional set of steps that you have to follow if you really want to deal with your alcoholism…for a hefty fee of course.

          • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

            Right, not my job to look up facts for those trying to evangelize me.

            For 10% of your income and unquestioning loyalty I can tell you how to cheat death through a 2,000 year old magic rabbi. My point is trying to debunk Scientology as a religion is full of fail.

            Are they a flawed organization? I believe so. But I’m not going to attack their religious beliefs anymore than I would anyone else’s.

          • SFF

            I’m not attacking anyone’s religious beliefs. I’m attacking Dianetics as a credible basis for therapy and attacking the Church of Scientology for playing bait-and-switch by calling the same thing either a science or a religion depending on who is asking.

            As per Hubbard sales policy, the Church of Scientology will try to find out what you are willing to buy and then claim to be selling that.

            I object to the incursion into scientific discourse by religious doctrine from followers of 2000 year old magic rabbis as well. As well as any fraud committed by its adherents.

      • Anonymous

        Scientology is NOT a religion. It is more like a corporate cult that has the main focus of relieving its members of any money they have down to the last dime.

        Star, you REALLY need to study up on the history of Scientology more before you write such an irresponsible headline. If you don’t want to read a whole book, start here:

        http://nailinpalinnow.blogspot.com/2009/04/palins-coale-keeps-scientologys.html

        By the way, you wish for others to be open minded, but you need to be open minded also when it comes to listening to your critics, such as myself.

  • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

    @facebook-100001546047372:disqus Except for the things about Dianetics “Being on the order of, but simpler than Physics” “yet it is a precise in it’s axioms.”-Dianetics

    So is scientology religious or secular? because the book seller at my local mall told me they were not religious at all.

    If it’s religious why did your book seller lie to me?

    If it’s secular why do OTs wear glasses if the Dianetics Release “will not Relapse” and “if his vision was poor as an aboree, he will find his vision is improved significantly be removing the engrams.”?

    • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

      It’s obviously a religion. Did you buy the book at Barnes & Noble? Perhaps the clerk was ignorant.

      • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

        Nope. I got it from a cart with Dianetics, and a stress test. I asked them if the book had anything to do with Scientology and they said “Dianetics and Scientology are two different subjects Dianetics is a therapy aiming to improve the mind and Scientology is a religion aiming to improve the spirit so its two completely different subjects like night and day”

        And btw for you Sci’s that might be lurking… this was straight from the Head of the Public Bookseller’s Mouth.
        So tell me what’s going on …. Please!

        • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

          Dianetics is a practice. Scientology is a religion.

          Witchcraft is a practice. Wicca is a religion.

          Prayer is a practice. Catholicism is a religion.

          Yoga is a practice. Hinduism is religion.

          • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

            So prayer, that catholics practice are two completely different subjects like night and day?

            Yoga, practiced by Hindus are two completely different subjects like night and day

            Okay that’s true.

            But do Scientologists actually practice Dianetics? Which rundowns are titled Dianetics? It’s called “Auditing” not “practicing Dianetics.”

            And if Dianetics is so important… why is there only 1 book about it compared to http://www.newerapublications.com/ All of these other books. The only other books that mention Dianetics are about forming the thesis. And it still doesn’t answer why Dianetics and Scientology are two completely different subjects, like night and day.

            After all, you don’t need to be Hindu to practice Yoga, You don’t need to be Christian to pray, you don’t need to be Wiccan to use witchcraft..

            But doesn’t it always help? You probably won’t get the same thing out of yoga if you do not know how the practice is meant to help your religion.
            It’s harder to belief in Witchcraft if you do not learn the lore and understand being a Wiccan.

            So how many people “practice” Dianetics that aren’t Scientologists? And still, if it therapy seperate from a religion (like Yoga) then why do they state that my eyesight will improve?

          • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

            You obviously have a chip on your shoulder and are ignorant about spiritual practices. If you need to rant and rave about Scientology there are forums better suited to that.

          • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

            I’m not ranting and raving. Just trying to get a simple answer that stands up… Why do they say Dianetics and Scientology are 2 different subjects?

            Dianetics in the book does not detail very many practices. If i pick up a book about “How to Yoga” they explain how to do it. Dianetics however isn’t “How to Dianetics” book, it doesn’t contain very many instructions, merely theories about how man is trying to survive, how species have suppressors and How the Goal of man is merely survival. This book doesn’t explain very much about how to use Dianetics to improve yourself, merely what the subject is about.

            Aside from all that… why does towards the end of “The goal of man” chapter LRH calls Christians and Romans 2 different Species?

          • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

            I suggest you go to a Scientology forum and find out. This is a Pagan blog and a friendly interfaith exercise.

          • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

            You are probably right I can’t find the answer here… but that was why I was trying to ask Geo Caliban. Since that person IS a scientologist. But they haven’t responded yet…. I guess I can play the waiting game. How long do you think it will take the person I cited to answer some questions about their beliefs? Or will they at All?

            Scilons Never want to play when their beliefs are on the line. That’s why they avoid us at protests. Even though they have a “Practice” to engage and shatter suppressors, or people that have questions about Scientology. The fact that they can’t come back here illustrates the point that in Essence, Scientologists are hypocrites who use their teachings as an excuse to harm those they deem “Suppressive”.

            Have you read their policy letters that allow them to trick sue and lie to people they don’t like? I think even Satanists don’t have texts that encourage practicing one thing (ethical) and then doing something else (lie and cheating).

          • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

            That proves you’re here to harass and not engage in actual dialogue, because you didn’t read my post.

            I cited and linked to an article on the Fair Game Doctrine in the post.

          • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

            Perhaps you read and did not comprehend? Such a policy excuses them and basically tells them it is okay to be a hypocrite and you still think that is something to like?

            Also again, my original comment was for a scientologist, to see if they could “clear up these misunderstoods”

            Basically my point in pointing out Fair game is not simply the litigatious nature in which it manifests, but how it is a direct order to misapply everything in the Scientology Creed in order to ruin those you want to.

            tl;dr Having Cojones is mutually exclusive from being hypocritical. I can respect big balls, but not when you accomplish it by not practicing what your Creed says you do.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Geo-Caliban/100001546047372 Geo Caliban

            Hi Anon Tron. Sorry I didn’t answer earlier. The “policy” you are referring to never authorized any such thing, and Hubbard has always stated no one may violate the law of the land. His point in writing Fair Game, which he canceled immediately on seeing it was misinterpreted, is that if someone commits serious, harmful acts and is therefore expelled from Scientology he or she can no longer claim the protection of the church. As to Scientology and Dianetics/religious or secular–I’m not an authority on this. I’m just an individual Scientologist. I can tell you this, though–when L. Ron Hubbard published Dianetics I think he believed he could help people enormously just by addressing the reactive mind–helping them overcome loss, stress, upsets and failures as well are illnesses and injuries brought on my or worsened by the mind. He continued his research and Scientology is addressed to the being himself and helping him gain awareness of his own spiritual nature. I don’t think Dianetics is “secular” but it will work whether you believe you are a spiritual being or not. If the bookseller told you Dianetics is secular I think that was wrong to do but he himself might not have understood. Also, when put on the spot, people can say odd things and from the tenor of your comments I would suspect you were giving him a hard time and trying to corner him. I may be wrong. That’s what I suspect.

      • SFF

        When Dianetics was released it was intended to be a new form of psychotherapy and claimed to be scientifically proven, though there has never been any data to support this.

        After rejection by the AMA, APA and other professional bodies and questions as to whether it should be subject to the same oversight as other therapies, it became Scientology and started talking about thetans and past lives.

        Dianetics has not been re-edited to incorporate Scientology religious ideas so it remains what it was in 1950 — a failed attempt at transforming the field of mental health following principles that have never been validated through any kind of rigorous testing. Two studies done in the 1950s that did not support Dianetics conclusions so there was no further collaboration with academia.

        So, the clerk was kind of right.

        The fact that the Church of Scientology will try and sell you on their religion if you like the self-help book is kind of beside the point.

        • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

          Dude, you don’t need to mansplain here. We can Google this stuff. We ain’t ignorant.

          Alcoholics Anonymous do the same thing but I don’t see you on a crusade against them.

          • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

            Alcoholics Anonymous doesn’t claim complete rehab, it’s up to the person that is putting in the effort. Does it help to talk about your problems in a group setting with people that understand your pains? yes it could. It’s not for everyone though, some people don’t like/need that. But if Alcoholics Anonymous started saying they were the AUTHORITIES of getting people off alcohol, I would have some problems. Oh btw Tom Cruise did say Scientology is the Authorities on the mind and getting people off drugs, which is still pertinent to my Dianetcs/ Scientology disconnect issue here.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_J6LDGFMY5ZWEEUBLPYO5SEVQFI Jeffrey Lebowski

            I had to Google ‘mansplain’… great word. Unfortunately I doubt men are clever enough to come up with a word for women not allowing themselves to ever lose an argument, ever…. I don’t have any facts to mansplain that, and I’ll hope no women come flog me for even suggesting such a preposterous idea.

          • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

            Oh please, I’ve mansplained myself plenty of times. Snidely implying sexism isn’t helpful.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_J6LDGFMY5ZWEEUBLPYO5SEVQFI Jeffrey Lebowski

            Call off the dogs, Star! I was only jokin’ around…. I just found the word entertaining and plan to use it on my wife ASAP!

          • SFF

            You told another poster, ”
            Dude, not my job to prove your argument,” so I assumed I had to explain. :)

            Also, I fail to see the connection to AA. AA claims no scientific basis and no specific success rates. It certainly doesn’t claim a direct causal relationship between following their method and controlling alcoholism, let alone claiming it will increase your eyesight, increase your IQ and rid you of a wide variety of illnesses. AA has been generally cooperative with studies into its effectiveness.

            Additionally, the 12 steps are pretty much all there is to AA. You won’t find that after you’ve done them, there are an additional set of steps that you have to follow if you really want to deal with your alcoholism…for a hefty fee of course.

          • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

            Right, not my job to look up facts for those trying to evangelize me.

            For 10% of your income and unquestioning loyalty I can tell you how to cheat death through a 2,000 year old magic rabbi. My point is trying to debunk Scientology as a religion is full of fail.

            Are they a flawed organization? I believe so. But I’m not going to attack their religious beliefs anymore than I would anyone else’s.

          • SFF

            I’m not attacking anyone’s religious beliefs. I’m attacking Dianetics as a credible basis for therapy and attacking the Church of Scientology for playing bait-and-switch by calling the same thing either a science or a religion depending on who is asking.

            As per Hubbard sales policy, the Church of Scientology will try to find out what you are willing to buy and then claim to be selling that.

            I object to the incursion into scientific discourse by religious doctrine from followers of 2000 year old magic rabbis as well. As well as any fraud committed by its adherents.

      • HelenNPN

        Scientology is NOT a religion. It is more like a corporate cult that has the main focus of relieving its members of any money they have down to the last dime.

        Star, you REALLY need to study up on the history of Scientology more before you write such an irresponsible headline. If you don’t want to read a whole book, start here:

        http://nailinpalinnow.blogspot.com/2009/04/palins-coale-keeps-scientologys.html

        By the way, you wish for others to be open minded, but you need to be open minded also when it comes to listening to your critics, such as myself.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=670750006 Sarah Horne

    Paganism has several branches, perhaps only a few tenets that all can agree on, but a reverence for nature and all life seems to be a given. There is so much info out there that suggests Scientology can be a very dangerous cult, at least for people on the bottom rungs, not celebrities. Sure, Dianetics may be full of interesting ideas and suggestions, perhaps L. Ron Hubbard hadn’t intended for the corruption which, upon reading many internet forums etc., appears to be central to this.

    Dianetics seems to be a mash-up of lots of existing ideas in pyschology and religion, some which have been in existence for many thousands of years. And I only read the first few chapters. The idea I got from it was that the book intends the impact to be so thorough that conversion and total submersion without criticism can be the only option left. For many people, looking outside for a saviour figure/organisation leaves them susceptible to giving themselves so completely that they turn their ability to think critically, well and truly off. That many people find Scientology through the ‘stress tests’ that are set up on high streets is probably indicative of how it hooks people, finding people who are already at a low ebb and world weary, who are seeking answers. And Dianetics offers answers, all right. I think if a religion has merit, it should allow the seeker to ask questions and form opinions through inner enquiry and to disagree with what religions offer, if necessary. We all have our own paths, and the beauty is we can all find what we are seeking by going within. But our society teaches us to put aside our own autonomy so often we can end up carelessly giving it away to the wrong people. Whilst there may be nuggets of wisdom here, the plethora of unhappy experiences associated with Scientology on the internet suggests that if this has to be approached, approach with some serious caution; brains firmly plugged into the mains.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_J6LDGFMY5ZWEEUBLPYO5SEVQFI Jeffrey Lebowski

      Very well said, Sarah. I enjoyed Star’s light-hearted support of Scientology, but mind control unfortunately ends up becoming the theme of the religion, resulting in monetary loss and broken families.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=670750006 Sarah Horne

    Paganism has several branches, perhaps only a few tenets that all can agree on, but a reverence for nature and all life seems to be a given. There is so much info out there that suggests Scientology can be a very dangerous cult, at least for people on the bottom rungs, not celebrities. Sure, Dianetics may be full of interesting ideas and suggestions, perhaps L. Ron Hubbard hadn’t intended for the corruption which, upon reading many internet forums etc., appears to be central to this.

    Dianetics seems to be a mash-up of lots of existing ideas in pyschology and religion, some which have been in existence for many thousands of years. And I only read the first few chapters. The idea I got from it was that the book intends the impact to be so thorough that conversion and total submersion without criticism can be the only option left. For many people, looking outside for a saviour figure/organisation leaves them susceptible to giving themselves so completely that they turn their ability to think critically, well and truly off. That many people find Scientology through the ‘stress tests’ that are set up on high streets is probably indicative of how it hooks people, finding people who are already at a low ebb and world weary, who are seeking answers. And Dianetics offers answers, all right. I think if a religion has merit, it should allow the seeker to ask questions and form opinions through inner enquiry and to disagree with what religions offer, if necessary. We all have our own paths, and the beauty is we can all find what we are seeking by going within. But our society teaches us to put aside our own autonomy so often we can end up carelessly giving it away to the wrong people. Whilst there may be nuggets of wisdom here, the plethora of unhappy experiences associated with Scientology on the internet suggests that if this has to be approached, approach with some serious caution; brains firmly plugged into the mains.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_J6LDGFMY5ZWEEUBLPYO5SEVQFI Jeffrey Lebowski

      Very well said, Sarah. I enjoyed Star’s light-hearted support of Scientology, but mind control unfortunately ends up becoming the theme of the religion, resulting in monetary loss and broken families.

  • http://twitter.com/Fernwise Fern Miller

    Perhaps the best thing about Scientology is how it is a screen so many use to project the ‘shadow side’ of ALL religion onto.

  • http://twitter.com/Fernwise Fern Miller

    Perhaps the best thing about Scientology is how it is a screen so many use to project the ‘shadow side’ of ALL religion onto.

  • http://dianarajchel.com Diana Rajchel


    3. Keeps Anonymous BusyBecause seriously, a day when Anonymous doesn’t notice you is a good day.HBGary and Bank of America can vouch for this.”This cracks me up. <3

  • http://blog.dianarajchel.com Diana Rajchel


    3. Keeps Anonymous BusyBecause seriously, a day when Anonymous doesn’t notice you is a good day.HBGary and Bank of America can vouch for this.”This cracks me up. <3

  • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

    As an Aside… perhaps you should have remembered point number #3 when you authored this? Anonymous does say “Expect Us” after all.

    • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

      Then you’re barking up the wrong tree and not as savvy as I had assumed. Pagans have no love for Scientology and you’re here preaching to the choir as well as straining the hospitality of this blog.

      If you spend this much on posts that help your cause (citing Fair Use and snarking on Battlefield Earth) then it’s a wonder you accomplish anything.

      • Ardiva

        You cite what is good about Scientology and then contradict yourself in the post above. *shakes head* ps..I’m Wiccan and am not mentioning that to impress you, Star.

        • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

          I started off the post stating I have no love for Scientology. I’m not certain what you think I should be ashamed of.

      • Anonthulhu

        If “Pagans have no love of Scientology” as you claim, then why do you have an entire post about “Why You Like Scientology”?

        • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

          It’s called an interfaith exercise. I also have a similar post on Islam if you’d be interested in trolling it.

          • Anonymous

            One simple question for you Star, do you believe that mind control cults actually exist?

  • http://twitter.com/darkspecteranon Anon Tron

    As an Aside… perhaps you should have remembered point number #3 when you authored this? Anonymous does say “Expect Us” after all.

    • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

      Then you’re barking up the wrong tree and not as savvy as I had assumed. Pagans have no love for Scientology and you’re here preaching to the choir as well as straining the hospitality of this blog.

      If you spend this much on posts that help your cause (citing Fair Use and snarking on Battlefield Earth) then it’s a wonder you accomplish anything.

      • Ardiva

        You cite what is good about Scientology and then contradict yourself in the post above. *shakes head* ps..I’m Wiccan and am not mentioning that to impress you, Star.

        • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

          I started off the post stating I have no love for Scientology. I’m not certain what you think I should be ashamed of.

          • Ardiva

            If you have no love for Scientology, Star..then WHY bother putting up all this drivel? Total waste of good time.

      • Anonthulhu

        If “Pagans have no love of Scientology” as you claim, then why do you have an entire post about “Why You Like Scientology”?

        • http://www.patheos.com/ Star Foster

          It’s called an interfaith exercise. I also have a similar post on Islam if you’d be interested in trolling it.

          • Anonthulhu

            No, I’d like to know why you find slavery, murder, and disregard for human life is an admirable trait. You say you “admire” them, and that you “like them.” And yet try to defend yourself by saying you “have NO love” (emphasis mine) for Scientology. Seriously, which is it? I suggest if it is the latter, you do an appropriate “13 Reasons Why I (and any moral person) Hate Scientology.” just a suggestion.

          • HelenNPN

            One simple question for you Star, do you believe that mind control cults actually exist?

            (And sorr about the crotch irritant joke in my 13 Things I Like About This Post you chose not to post – it was not personal only for the lulz. The rest I stand by.)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7HZLTZVWISVRFY7JJWAT2KMKSU Gary Lee-Nova

    Thank you SO much for the list of likes about Scientology! I enjoyed reading it.
    I thank Scientology every day because I had to disconnect from my sister because she was so criticial of Scientology and they didn’t approve of our relationship.

    Which was a blessing, because we never did get along anyways. I also had my inheritance to spend and I didn’t know what to spend it on, but Scientology helped me with that.

    I am also thankful to Scientology because I am also living in a small apartment now, rather than the big o’l house I used to own in that snobby neighborhood that I can’t afford any more.

    The place I have now over the pizza resturant is much cozier anyways and who doesn’t like the smell of pizza 24/7? hello?

    After three months of RPF rice and beans, it’s wonderful.
    So thanks Scientology!

  • Evelyn

    This is an interesting discussion. I thought some of the readers might be interested in this discussion about L. Ron Hubbard’s take on other religions.

    http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,5736.msg17070.html#msg17070

  • Evelyn

    This is an interesting discussion. I thought some of the readers might be interested in this discussion about L. Ron Hubbard’s take on other religions.

    http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,5736.msg17070.html#msg17070

  • Glenn

    Reading all these angry comments has reminded me of why I stayed away from religion for so long, and why I am now an Independent Asatruar. Once religion is organized into different entities and then further categorized into seperate sub – categories that is when the anger, jealousy, and at times even hatred. If someone wants to pray to a rock, and really believes that rock has a God – force in it, I will honor them by accepting their beliefs. Even if I do not believe as well. The purist of religions is the bond between one individual and his Deity (ies). There is no judging in that union just love !

    • Glenn

      ” and at times even hatred begins. ” Sorry, just got home from work and I am tired !

    • Anonymous

      People need to know a lot more about Scientology than they do. This provides a succinct rundown with lots of links and back up. PLEASE take a minute to view this if you think Scientology is “just another religion.” It is NOT. NO cult is designed to take more money off of its members than Scientology.

      http://nailinpalinnow.blogspot.com/2009/04/palins-coale-keeps-scientologys.html

  • Glenn

    Reading all these angry comments has reminded me of why I stayed away from religion for so long, and why I am now an Independent Asatruar. Once religion is organized into different entities and then further categorized into seperate sub – categories that is when the anger, jealousy, and at times even hatred. If someone wants to pray to a rock, and really believes that rock has a God – force in it, I will honor them by accepting their beliefs. Even if I do not believe as well. The purist of religions is the bond between one individual and his Deity (ies). There is no judging in that union just love !

    • Glenn

      ” and at times even hatred begins. ” Sorry, just got home from work and I am tired !

    • HelenNPN

      People need to know a lot more about Scientology than they do. This provides a succinct rundown with lots of links and back up. PLEASE take a minute to view this if you think Scientology is “just another religion.” It is NOT. NO cult is designed to take more money off of its members than Scientology.

      http://nailinpalinnow.blogspot.com/2009/04/palins-coale-keeps-scientologys.html

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PMTLR3IIGKPHZ2YNU3PDXWK4WA Kenneth

    At the risk of breaking off more of the hornet’s nest and piling on, how does a blog entry about Scientology add any value whatsoever to what is otherwise an excellent running discussion of the pagan world? I gather that you were going for a tongue in cheek Jon Stewart-esque comedic poke at it, but it also seems a little bit fawning as well, whether you meant to aim for that or not.

    I don’t see any value in it either as an “interfaith exercise.” Scientology is a very controversial and complex subject matter that is well beyond the scope of this blog to provide a foundation, in one entry, for a reasoned and informed discussion of it. To even make a credible run at such a thing would take over this blog for weeks and months, and again, add nothing of any real value to the pagan experience. Scientology is not part of the ancestry of Earth-based or aboriginal traditions whatsoever, beyond the very tangential connection to Aleister Crowley.

    I won’t render judgment on the “legitimacy” of Scientology as a religion. It’s followers have the same rights to practice as we all do, but it has nothing to teach that most pagans stand to benefit from. Many of its beliefs and practices over many decades related to rigid and extremely aggressive hierarchical power, an enormous focus on material gain and homophobia are abhorrent to the vast majority of us in the modern pagan world.

    It is by no means unique in this regard among religions, but the fact that we have to respect the existence of all traditions does not mean that we should accept the nonsense that they are all equally good in every respect. The fact that Christian fundamentalists may denigrate Scientology and Wicca equally does not mean there are not qualitative differences between us. In thinking critically about Scientology or any other religion, including our own, we ought to heed the wisdom of some of our smartest elders, including Isaac Bonewits, whose “cult danger evaluation frame” remains one of the best resources for evaluating how power is used, and abused, within religions.

    Again, it’s their right to practice, and I can’t deny that some people have found some real value in their membership, but there is nothing in Scientology which I wish to emulate and nothing I have to “dialogue” with them about.

    If this seems mean-spirited, I apologize. You do some excellent work day in and day out Star, and like most people who do, are under-appreciated. That said, you should realize that Scientology is a heavy subject, and one that brings strong reactions because many people have had complex and often very hurtful experiences with it over the years. Going for a laugh with Scientology is a dangerous game best left to the comedy professionals. Going for a serious in-depth discussion of it is best left to someplace other than a pagan blog.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PMTLR3IIGKPHZ2YNU3PDXWK4WA Kenneth

    At the risk of breaking off more of the hornet’s nest and piling on, how does a blog entry about Scientology add any value whatsoever to what is otherwise an excellent running discussion of the pagan world? I gather that you were going for a tongue in cheek Jon Stewart-esque comedic poke at it, but it also seems a little bit fawning as well, whether you meant to aim for that or not.

    I don’t see any value in it either as an “interfaith exercise.” Scientology is a very controversial and complex subject matter that is well beyond the scope of this blog to provide a foundation, in one entry, for a reasoned and informed discussion of it. To even make a credible run at such a thing would take over this blog for weeks and months, and again, add nothing of any real value to the pagan experience. Scientology is not part of the ancestry of Earth-based or aboriginal traditions whatsoever, beyond the very tangential connection to Aleister Crowley.

    I won’t render judgment on the “legitimacy” of Scientology as a religion. It’s followers have the same rights to practice as we all do, but it has nothing to teach that most pagans stand to benefit from. Many of its beliefs and practices over many decades related to rigid and extremely aggressive hierarchical power, an enormous focus on material gain and homophobia are abhorrent to the vast majority of us in the modern pagan world.

    It is by no means unique in this regard among religions, but the fact that we have to respect the existence of all traditions does not mean that we should accept the nonsense that they are all equally good in every respect. The fact that Christian fundamentalists may denigrate Scientology and Wicca equally does not mean there are not qualitative differences between us. In thinking critically about Scientology or any other religion, including our own, we ought to heed the wisdom of some of our smartest elders, including Isaac Bonewits, whose “cult danger evaluation frame” remains one of the best resources for evaluating how power is used, and abused, within religions.

    Again, it’s their right to practice, and I can’t deny that some people have found some real value in their membership, but there is nothing in Scientology which I wish to emulate and nothing I have to “dialogue” with them about.

    If this seems mean-spirited, I apologize. You do some excellent work day in and day out Star, and like most people who do, are under-appreciated. That said, you should realize that Scientology is a heavy subject, and one that brings strong reactions because many people have had complex and often very hurtful experiences with it over the years. Going for a laugh with Scientology is a dangerous game best left to the comedy professionals. Going for a serious in-depth discussion of it is best left to someplace other than a pagan blog.

  • http://profiles.google.com/bethnin Beth Winegarner

    Great post!

  • http://profiles.google.com/bethnin Beth Winegarner

    Great post!

  • Wes Isley

    So glad you took a look at Scientology–and I had never heard the Prayer to Total Freedom before: very nice. I could hear myself praying this one.

  • Wes Isley

    So glad you took a look at Scientology–and I had never heard the Prayer to Total Freedom before: very nice. I could hear myself praying this one.

  • Susie

    Can everybody give Star a break? It’s just a fun article. Sheesh.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=670750006 Sarah Horne

      Susie, Kenneth summed it up beautifully.  A light-hearted approach is tricky when approaching a topic such as this.  I’m sure Star will cope. Opinion writers should be able to handle criticism to some extent, and to expect it — but any criticism they receive is really not levelled at them personally.  It’s just people trying to get to grips with the craziness of human nature and of life, and expressing that.  And it’s good that we live in a society where people are able to express opinions.  :)

  • Susie

    Can everybody give Star a break? It’s just a fun article. Sheesh.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=670750006 Sarah Horne

      Susie, Kenneth summed it up beautifully.  A light-hearted approach is tricky when approaching a topic such as this.  I’m sure Star will cope. Opinion writers should be able to handle criticism to some extent, and to expect it — but any criticism they receive is really not levelled at them personally.  It’s just people trying to get to grips with the craziness of human nature and of life, and expressing that.  And it’s good that we live in a society where people are able to express opinions.  :)

  • Louanne

    “I hope all the discussion your post has inspired will provoke you and others to find out all they can about Scientology – just don’t expect to get the facts from one of its adherents!” 

    LOL, sounds more like you fear that someone actually talks to a Scientologist or takes a tour in one of our Churches. But don’t you worry, actual Scientology books are actually a much better source and you can get them in public libraries or Scientology reading rooms. 

  • Zevenster

    is it just me, or is this a Terry Pratchett waiting to happen?


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