The fact of the matter is I’m weary of reminding Pagans that I’m included in the same category. And I’m so very discouraged that my religion is written out of many common makeshift definitions of Paganism.
My religion is not completely “nature-based” or “earth-based.” I do not follow the Wiccan Rede or honor the Wheel of the Year, I don’t cast circles, I don’t worship The Goddess and The God, I don’t call upon the Four Elements, I don’t see the deities as archetypes. I don’t use the Indian chakra system, I do not practice witchcraft nor do I consider myself a witch, I do not practice Ceremonial Magic. And I am most certainly not an adherent of “indigenous (Northern) European religion.” However, I do honor a sacred yearly calendar based on Bronze Age texts, I do honor multiple individual deities and make offerings to them, I meditate and pray, I honor some form of body wisdom, I value and support community, and I sometimes practice a form of theurgistic magic.
I’m discouraged at having my religion overlooked, forgotten, ignored, or written off as insignificant by a movement that is supposed to go beyond tolerance towards an active support of diversity. I am bothered by the “common assumptions” about my practices which do not take diversity into account. I dislike going to Pagan groups only to find I’m really in a Wicca 101 class. I am troubled that surveys of the Pagan community assume that if you are a Pagan you must be Wiccan, Ceremonialist, or possibly heathen and then tailor the questions specifically for these categories. I am frustrated that when I meet with a group or go to rites which are supposed to be inclusive only to find myself making the lion’s share of compromise 99% of the time so I can participate. And I know I’m not alone in my experiences.
I have tried for over a decade to claim myself as a Pagan, to support my religion as one of the many Pagan ways, and to support Paganism. I’d still like to because I believe that is still true and can still be true. In many ways, I still identify with the Pagan movement because it—or at least I thought it—embraced different deities and different ways. I believe that there can be strength in numbers, but when the majority of people and the definitions they create disinclude my religion, what hope do I have?
I’m becoming increasingly aware that ideally Paganism is inclusive, but it is not de facto what is happening in Paganism and I’m exhausted trying to educate both insiders and outsiders against what feels like an engulfing trend. When I find I have to explain myself to both non-Pagans and the Pagans themselves, there’s a problem. When I feel like I’m having force the issue of inclusiveness when it should already be there, there is a big problem. Apparently that problem is me. Perhaps I’m not realizing what some Pagans really are saying through their (inter-)actions: “You are not one of us. You tell us you are one of us, you claim us, but we don’t claim you or your religion.” Lately, I’m just not feeling the love; I’m feeling the cold shoulder. Pagans, is my love unrequited?
Yishlam le-ki,
Peace and wellbeing to you,
Tess Dawson
Pagan?, Polytheist, and Practitioner of Natib Qadish, Canaanite Religion
Come away with the rest of us Pagan Reconstructionists, sitting apart, looking at the ancient texts/carvings/ways!
Fern, according to some, I’m already there. http://canaanitepath.com/
Come away with the rest of us Pagan Reconstructionists, sitting apart, looking at the ancient texts/carvings/ways!
Fern, according to some, I’m already there. http://canaanitepath.com/
OK so I just read a web site about your path. I am glad to be informed, however your essay seems to expect that people of other Pagan beliefs should be educated on your beliefs. Why? we each are following our own paths. Why take exception with the Wiccan who has no knowledge of your belief system? It is a simple truth that the more adherents the more general public knowledge by the community at large. It would be your responsibility to share what you are willing to, not others to educate them selves on every possible manifestation of Pagan beliefs.
The problem is that far too many Pagans don’t take the time to educate themselves on any Pagan belief outside of what they are familiar with or comfortable with. One doesn’t have to know everything about every Pagan religion in order to do things like stop talking about Paganism as if it were one religion with slightly different denominations or stop acting like there is a common Pagan culture, which happens to be Wiccanate. It isn’t a matter of knowledge about particular traditions, it’s about the unwillingness of many Pagans to begin treating the “umbrella term” as an actual diverse umbrella.
Hi Peter, I replied further below in a separate post address to both you and Kenneth. I have been in Pagan communities over several states, and a part of many more online world-wide communities. I am more likely to assume that people *do not* know about my religion, and I’m pleasantly surprised when a few do. I enjoy teaching, so others’ lack of knowledge doesn’t bother me. My problem is what I see as a trend towards homogenization in Pagan culture, and a lack of education regarding other ways (not just my own!). When I crack open a book on Paganism and I only find the eight Sabbats and not Egyptian, Greek, Aztec, or Sumerian holidays, (etc.), I know that as Pagans we’re not doing the best we can do to educate and share with each other. Also here’s a chicken-or-the-egg question: are there more adherents of Wicca because neophytes have difficulty finding anything else?
Also here’s a chicken-or-the-egg question: are there more adherents of
Wicca because neophytes have difficulty finding anything else?
Definitely!
We also need to take into account the invention of an understanding of “Wicca” as anything you want it to be. The vast majority of people who identify as Wiccan are not practicing anything that fits my personal definition of Wicca. (Minimally, an initiatory mystery cult, with hetero-erotic duotheism expressed in its central mystery.) These different versions of Modern Pagan Witchcraft are as valid as Wicca, but distinct from it.
OK so I just read a web site about your path. I am glad to be informed, however your essay seems to expect that people of other Pagan beliefs should be educated on your beliefs. Why? we each are following our own paths. Why take exception with the Wiccan who has no knowledge of your belief system? It is a simple truth that the more adherents the more general public knowledge by the community at large. It would be your responsibility to share what you are willing to, not others to educate them selves on every possible manifestation of Pagan beliefs.
The problem is that far too many Pagans don’t take the time to educate themselves on any Pagan belief outside of what they are familiar with or comfortable with. One doesn’t have to know everything about every Pagan religion in order to do things like stop talking about Paganism as if it were one religion with slightly different denominations or stop acting like there is a common Pagan culture, which happens to be Wiccanate. It isn’t a matter of knowledge about particular traditions, it’s about the unwillingness of many Pagans to begin treating the “umbrella term” as an actual diverse umbrella.
Hi Peter, I replied further below in a separate post address to both you and Kenneth. I have been in Pagan communities over several states, and a part of many more online world-wide communities. I am more likely to assume that people *do not* know about my religion, and I’m pleasantly surprised when a few do. I enjoy teaching, so others’ lack of knowledge doesn’t bother me. My problem is what I see as a trend towards homogenization in Pagan culture, and a lack of education regarding other ways (not just my own!). When I crack open a book on Paganism and I only find the eight Sabbats and not Egyptian, Greek, Aztec, or Sumerian holidays, (etc.), I know that as Pagans we’re not doing the best we can do to educate and share with each other. Also here’s a chicken-or-the-egg question: are there more adherents of Wicca because neophytes have difficulty finding anything else?
Also here’s a chicken-or-the-egg question: are there more adherents of
Wicca because neophytes have difficulty finding anything else?
Definitely!
We also need to take into account the invention of an understanding of “Wicca” as anything you want it to be. The vast majority of people who identify as Wiccan are not practicing anything that fits my personal definition of Wicca. (Minimally, an initiatory mystery cult, with hetero-erotic duotheism expressed in its central mystery.) These different versions of Modern Pagan Witchcraft are as valid as Wicca, but distinct from it.
You’re putting an awfully high expectation on people to have an intuitive grasp and acceptance of a religion which most of us have never heard of and essentially none of us have ever encountered in most pagan circles. I am by no means a top scholar of modern paganism and its many movements, but I have been around and I am aware of the existence of many pagan religions outside of the usual Wiccan/European spectrum. I had never heard the term “Natib Qadish” until I read your post. I have certainly never come across a live practitioner of it.
You have to realize you have an uphill battle and a certain burden of public education if your goal is to be understood. You are part of a subculture of a subculture that is itself a tiny minority within society, and a much misunderstood one. Why would you expect anyone without an advanced degree in ancient middle eastern anthropology to know what you believe and how that relates to paganism? It’s not a matter of most of us wanting to shave off the corners of your faith to pound it into some preconceived category we consider to denote “legitimate” pagan faiths, it’s simply a matter of 99.999% of us having no background or context whatsoever to know what to make of you. If you want to be understood, hold some workshops at PSG or someplace or write some articles for this blog or Witchvox or something.
In the final analysis, it’s also possible you might not find acceptance in or kinship with the “pagan community”, and that need not reflect poorly on you or them. I’m all for inclusiveness and broadening our mind within paganism as to who we are and what we do. That said, not everyone is going to feel at home under even the broadest umbrella we can build. If it turns out your worldviews and practices have more apart from “paganism” than in common with it, why try to force the association? It may not be the case that Wiccans are “hating” on you.
People tend to assume that everyone who isn’t one of the “Big Three” Abrahamic faiths or who happens to be polytheistic must be “pagan” and must therefore want, and get a seat at our table. For better or worse, the modern pagan movement grew up around a core of Earth-Based European reconstructions or re-inventions. That understanding has grown exponentially in the last decade or so, and I think we are all richer for it. It’s great that we’re no longer a country club controlled by some inner circle of Wiccans or Druids. But it also means we don’t have a common language or set of assumptions with which to understand each other. As new and disparate groups join our fellowship, we’re going to need patient ambassadors from them to educate us, open minds from those of us already “in the club” and frank discussions about what, if anything, we all share as common ideals and identity.
Hi Kenneth, I’ve replied to both you and Peter in a separate post below.
You’re putting an awfully high expectation on people to have an intuitive grasp and acceptance of a religion which most of us have never heard of and essentially none of us have ever encountered in most pagan circles. I am by no means a top scholar of modern paganism and its many movements, but I have been around and I am aware of the existence of many pagan religions outside of the usual Wiccan/European spectrum. I had never heard the term “Natib Qadish” until I read your post. I have certainly never come across a live practitioner of it.
You have to realize you have an uphill battle and a certain burden of public education if your goal is to be understood. You are part of a subculture of a subculture that is itself a tiny minority within society, and a much misunderstood one. Why would you expect anyone without an advanced degree in ancient middle eastern anthropology to know what you believe and how that relates to paganism? It’s not a matter of most of us wanting to shave off the corners of your faith to pound it into some preconceived category we consider to denote “legitimate” pagan faiths, it’s simply a matter of 99.999% of us having no background or context whatsoever to know what to make of you. If you want to be understood, hold some workshops at PSG or someplace or write some articles for this blog or Witchvox or something.
In the final analysis, it’s also possible you might not find acceptance in or kinship with the “pagan community”, and that need not reflect poorly on you or them. I’m all for inclusiveness and broadening our mind within paganism as to who we are and what we do. That said, not everyone is going to feel at home under even the broadest umbrella we can build. If it turns out your worldviews and practices have more apart from “paganism” than in common with it, why try to force the association? It may not be the case that Wiccans are “hating” on you.
People tend to assume that everyone who isn’t one of the “Big Three” Abrahamic faiths or who happens to be polytheistic must be “pagan” and must therefore want, and get a seat at our table. For better or worse, the modern pagan movement grew up around a core of Earth-Based European reconstructions or re-inventions. That understanding has grown exponentially in the last decade or so, and I think we are all richer for it. It’s great that we’re no longer a country club controlled by some inner circle of Wiccans or Druids. But it also means we don’t have a common language or set of assumptions with which to understand each other. As new and disparate groups join our fellowship, we’re going to need patient ambassadors from them to educate us, open minds from those of us already “in the club” and frank discussions about what, if anything, we all share as common ideals and identity.
Hi Kenneth, I’ve replied to both you and Peter in a separate post below.
Since the most inclusive definition of Pagan is a religion that is non-Abrahamic, wouldn’t the Canaanite Religion actually be considered Abrahamic? Granted pre-Abrahamic from the little I have read but I am not really sure here.
Hi Jennifer, I would not call Natib Qadish pre-Abrahamic or Abrahamic, because there’s a reliance on using Abraham as a reliable indicator when he isn’t. By labelling Canaanite religion as pre-Abrahamic, one ends up labelling all Pagan and/or polytheistic religions before the legendary figure of Abraham as also pre-Abrahamic (this definition would include both Egyptian and Sumerian polytheistic religions). By biblical legend, Abraham created the Israelite monotheistic religion and thus divorced himself from Canaanite polytheistic religion; granted history tells a different story. Since Canaanite religion had nothing to do with Abraham–he is not a figure in Canaanite myth or legend–Canaanite religion is not Abrahamic or pre-Abrahamic.
Thank you for your explanation Tess. =)
How can anything pre-Abrahamic be considered Abrahamic? I’ve not done much research on Natib Qadish yet, but from what I understand, it is a reconstruction of the pagan beliefs of Canaan before the Israelites became monotheists and also before the Phoenician empire.
Since the most inclusive definition of Pagan is a religion that is non-Abrahamic, wouldn’t the Canaanite Religion actually be considered Abrahamic? Granted pre-Abrahamic from the little I have read but I am not really sure here.
Hi Jennifer, I would not call Natib Qadish pre-Abrahamic or Abrahamic, because there’s a reliance on using Abraham as a reliable indicator when he isn’t. By labelling Canaanite religion as pre-Abrahamic, one ends up labelling all Pagan and/or polytheistic religions before the legendary figure of Abraham as also pre-Abrahamic (this definition would include both Egyptian and Sumerian polytheistic religions). By biblical legend, Abraham created the Israelite monotheistic religion and thus divorced himself from Canaanite polytheistic religion; granted history tells a different story. Since Canaanite religion had nothing to do with Abraham–he is not a figure in Canaanite myth or legend–Canaanite religion is not Abrahamic or pre-Abrahamic.
Thank you for your explanation Tess. =)
How can anything pre-Abrahamic be considered Abrahamic? I’ve not done much research on Natib Qadish yet, but from what I understand, it is a reconstruction of the pagan beliefs of Canaan before the Israelites became monotheists and also before the Phoenician empire.
Hi Peter and Kenneth,
Peter, I appreciate that you’ve read about my ways. After
having been a part of various Pagan functions (too many to count) in many U.S.
states (at least eight), I assume that people know nothing of my religion, and
I welcome the opportunity to share. The crux of my post is not whether or not
Pagans know about my religion, but whether or not diversity is accepted,
embraced, and even expected and welcomed in Paganism. My experience is that
Paganism (right now—but this can change!) doesn’t embrace diversity as well as
it could.
I’d like to worship my moon god without another Pagan
telling me I’m dead wrong and that I should know better that there’s a moon
goddess. I’d like to be able to share my Canaanite ways and not have a Pagan
elder of the group say “this is not the way things are done.” I’ve experienced
both these and various other incidents that have brought me to a sneaking suspicion
that there is more homogenization and assimilation going on than there is an
actual acceptance of diversity. This issue is much broader than my religion: I’ve
heard similar thoughts echoed by Hellenismos, Kemetics, and Aztec recons, to
name a mere few.
Kenneth, great idea! I do a good deal of outreach work and
have taught in different states, I also write for Witches & Pagans,
SageWoman, PanGaia, Patheos J, Pentacle, Spirit One, and many others, so I do what
I can to educate.
Close-mindedness and rigidity is a problem, I agree, but it’s nothing unique to the pagan community nor are the only victims “non-traditional” trads such as your own.
Wicca itself has been emeshed in a more or less constant “witch war” since Gardner over the question of who is “doing it right.” Even farther back, we can see what happened to the Golden Dawn movement as it fractured into multiple lodges in the opening years of the last century. It happens within every religious movement, and I have no reason at all to believe that it does not also happen within Hellenic or Aztec groups or within Canaanite religion for that matter.
It is certainly not unique to paganism. The Big Three religions killed millions of its own over questions of who was doing it right. It’s a human nature problem, and one that I believe is greatly compounded within any religion which designates a separate caste of clergy authorized to mediate and define legitimate experience of the gods for us. Anyone who thinks they’re going to get away from this problem by only hanging with their own kind or by disavowing pagan identity in favor of “polytheism” is, to put it mildly, unrealistically optimistic.
We also need to remember that most pagans of whatever stripe these days are not even a full generation removed from the authoritarian faiths they grew up in, most commonly Catholicism or Evangelical Christian of one sort or another. Nobody sheds all their baggage as fully as they imagine.
Finally, we must remember that paganism is a movement of misfits. Many are misfits in the finest sense of the word, in that all great explorers and innovators are misfits. Others are just, well, misfits – social and emotional cripples who flock to a non-dogmatic religion because no others would tolerate them. There are always people at any festival who can’t seem to observe the most basic ritual etiquette or diplomacy whatsoever and then get angry when anyone deigns to “judge” them because of it.
A lot of the problems you experienced at public events point to a need for better leadership and clearer understandings about mutual respect and the fact that none of us should expect to monopolize public rituals with diverse participants. I’ve been part of some wonderful and diverse rituals where we had people from radically different trads calling the quarters in their own way or other parts of the ritual.
It’s maddening of course, to see it within paganism as we should “know better.”
Paganism doesn’t do diversity as well as it could. We don’t do anything as well as we could, but the solution to that is more, not less engagement from people who care. Don’t let the idiots of our movement grind you down. Use a kind word when it works, but don’t be afraid to leave a few bootmarks on a few hindquarters. If you feel like paganism is part of your spiritual homeland, don’t let anyone move you off. Being one of us is not for the faint of heart, and being a Canaanite hasn’t exactly been a downhill walk for most of the last 4,000 years either.
@Kenneth
I agree with most of what you wrote, but I found the following sentence very ironic:
I’ve been part of some wonderful and diverse rituals where we had people
from radically different trads calling the quarters in their own way or
other parts of the ritual.
Calling the quarters is a *very* Wiccanate ritual practice, deriving from Ceremonialism. In m y o p i n ion , i f a community is attempting to create rituals that honor the diversity of practice in modern paganism, calling t h e quarters should happen at a minority of the rituals.
@yahoo-PMTLR3IIGKPHZ2YNU3PDXWK4WA:disqus and @dda9b3d556de5595e238710c42349a3b:disqus :
Ian has a point here about calling quarters. It is a practice that, as I understand it, is primarily associated with Wicca and may not be associated with other Pagan religions. I, myself, don’t call quarters.
Kenneth, I partly agree with you here: “It’s a human nature problem, and one that I believe is greatly compounded within any religion which designates a separate caste of clergy authorized to mediate and define legitimate experience of the gods for us.” Yes, it is a human problem, and sometimes it is aggravated by clergy, but not always. Many times clergy is a strength and an asset. And thank you for your kind words, Kenneth, they are much appreciated.
That’s just one thing by way of example. The home coven I helped create in recent years is made up of a core of us who came from Wiccan backgrounds and our practice tends to reflect that, although we’re not formally Wiccan anymore. That said, when I go to someplace like Circle Sanctuary, I’m probably in the minority. Lots of hedge witches and heathens and some Asatruars and people who work with the fey etc. I guess to a large degree it tends to run mostly along Indo-European traditions. By definition, the ritual calendar and names do. They celebrate Beltaine, and of course that’s particular to our end of the spectrum.
I’m open minded about community rituals and would love to see and experience participation from others outside of our spiritual genus, as it were. That said, I think at some level you can only go so far to create a truly non-denominational ritual. If we strip out every last element that might seem exclusive to one tradition or another – any reference to particular deities, any ritual elements or movements, even the scheduling of rituals which might be presumptive of one tradition etc., there’s not much left to work with. We’d be left doing content-free rituals on dates that have no meaning for any of us.
I’d rather see events organized by a sort of rotating group of people from different trads. Maybe one month it would be more Wiccan or Asatru in flavor. Another time, more Canaanite. It’s a difficult issue. At some level too, there’s a debate about whether extreme eclecticism honors any of our gods properly. I think there’s room for plenty of inclusiveness, but if we combine too many elements from radically different trads into each ritual, it can end up being a meaningless mish-mash. I don’t know what the answer is to be perfectly honest. We need to be more inclusive, but at the same time I think people look to have some sort of continuity and familiarity in their rituals.
It may be that some trads are just too different to to very much ritual work together, I don’t know. If Canaanite religion and, say, European trads have radically different understandings of the ritual calendar, how to honor the gods and how to run a ritual, it may just be that it’s not practical to do rituals together on an ongoing basis. That doesn’t mean I don’t want folks like you in the community. I think there’s great opportunities for educational workshops, magickal practice which might be good to cross pollinate, and in long weekends or weeklong events like PSG, chances to experience each other’s rituals in authentic, rather than watered down forms. The answer may be that we simply don’t have common ground ritually and we shouldn’t force it. You should be able to be part of the pagan community without having to “act Wiccan” and I’d probably make a poor Canaanite. I’ve already flown one Middle Eastern religion into the ground!
Doesn’t mean us Indo-Europeans and you folk can’t still have a damn good time together in the hills somwhere!
I’d rather see events organized by a sort of rotating group of people
from different trads. Maybe one month it would be more Wiccan or Asatru
in flavor. Another time, more Canaanite. It’s a difficult issue.
This is how we’ve approached it in Champaign-Urbana, IL.
We have a very small and diverse Pagan group out where I live. We have tried super hard to make a generic/Universal ritual format that is comfortable for all to participate in with the knowldege that each of us practices privately in ways more in line with our beliefs/traditions. We’ve tried to do this for years and have come to the realization that people really want to worship exactly how they want to worship and generally get bent out of shape if any thing is different. An inclusive ritual seems to make most present feel uninspired or they focus on how it would be different if they were doing it. We had the general rituals just as a way to come together, share our thoughts at a pot-luck after and just have some fellowship in a respectful, diverse environment. We are a small minority and thought numbers would help us support each other even if one of us saw the Moon as Goddess and another as a God, we could still thank ‘the Moon’ during a ritual.
I do believe an acknowldegement that most Pagans have a few things in common even if it isn’t always the same things does help us. I wrote to Patheos several weeks ago to state my disappointment that we were listed as ‘New religion’ on one of their pages. I also get disappointed when we are listed as ‘Other’. However, how can I be disappointed when it looks like Pagans will never come together and stop pushing our differences instead of embracing our similarites. I have been reconstructionist for many, many years and am Goddess centered now. I was not raised Christian or have ever been a Wiccan. I have identified as ‘Pagan’ my entire life and while, especially during my recon days, I sometimes felt the need to let people know exactly what kind of Pagan I was, it still fit. While we are not all ‘earth-centered’, most of us do have seasonal festivals of some sort and probably do give thanks to the earth (however personified) and/or nature spirits. While we may not all be hard polytheists, most of us honor or respect the concept of pluralism and the idea that divine energy has many personalities and they are valid. Many of us honor our ancestors or other spirits. These seem overly simplified but it does set us apart from many other ‘faith traditions’. There are even more similarities when we speak with each other specifically about different traditions. Even people of the same tradition do not agree 100% with each others’ spiritual worldviews. We will always have differences, otherwise we’d be clones. Some of us do appreciate the diversity AND see similarities and like the idea of building inclusive, respectful, fun and diverse communities. I like the term Pagan because I believe it is a large enough umbrella for most of us. I have no problem clarifying what ‘I’ believe in relation to that umbrella term should someone ask. If we want schools to lay off our kids and military tombstones with our symbols it will definitely help us all to be united on some level instead of each of us trying to always educate and defend our very specific traditions.
Hi, Heather. You say:”…it looks like Pagans will never come together and stop pushing our differences instead of embracing our similarites.” I would like to invite you to embrace the differences as well as the similarities. I think that we Pagans may best come together when we don’t just look past the differences and into the safety net of similarities, but when we actively honor that we are different and it is ok.
I agree completely, that’s why I wrote, “Some of us do appreciate the diversity AND see similarities and like the idea of building inclusive, respectful, fun and diverse communities. ” I love the diversity. I would just like to see it be a community-building element and not one of divisiveness where people feel slighted if they aren’t represented exactly how they demand all the time or if others push people away because they are not exactly like themselves either. Differences are good and keep things evolving. Middle ground is also good to meet and share and enrich each others’ lives with attitudes of peace and respect.
I’m saddened to hear that you’re running into so many ignorant and rude Paganfolk.
Regarding folks who just can’t wrap their brains around the notion of a Moon God, yours is not the only religion of which they are ignorant – Lunar Gods are common across the Near East and Far East as well as Central Europe. Heck, even the Eddas give us the Moon as male.
As to the “Pagan elder” with whom you dealt, I’d suggest that zie isn’t much what I would tend to regard as an Elder if the statement was “this is not the way things are done (full stop)” rather than “this is not the way things are done in my (T/tradtition/path).”
Yes, there are Pagans who espouse a lot of “One True Way-ism”, and I rather suspect that there have been since the dawn of time.
I’ve yet to meet anyone mortal who embraces diversity perfectly.
On the lighter side… if a bunch of Paganfolk are waffling on about how “dead wrong” you are… I’d suggest you’re actually being included into a larger group of Pagans than the one from which you’re being excluded.
Hi Peter and Kenneth,
Peter, I appreciate that you’ve read about my ways. After
having been a part of various Pagan functions (too many to count) in many U.S.
states (at least eight), I assume that people know nothing of my religion, and
I welcome the opportunity to share. The crux of my post is not whether or not
Pagans know about my religion, but whether or not diversity is accepted,
embraced, and even expected and welcomed in Paganism. My experience is that
Paganism (right now—but this can change!) doesn’t embrace diversity as well as
it could.
I’d like to worship my moon god without another Pagan
telling me I’m dead wrong and that I should know better that there’s a moon
goddess. I’d like to be able to share my Canaanite ways and not have a Pagan
elder of the group say “this is not the way things are done.” I’ve experienced
both these and various other incidents that have brought me to a sneaking suspicion
that there is more homogenization and assimilation going on than there is an
actual acceptance of diversity. This issue is much broader than my religion: I’ve
heard similar thoughts echoed by Hellenismos, Kemetics, and Aztec recons, to
name a mere few.
Kenneth, great idea! I do a good deal of outreach work and
have taught in different states, I also write for Witches & Pagans,
SageWoman, PanGaia, Patheos J, Pentacle, Spirit One, and many others, so I do what
I can to educate.
Close-mindedness and rigidity is a problem, I agree, but it’s nothing unique to the pagan community nor are the only victims “non-traditional” trads such as your own.
Wicca itself has been emeshed in a more or less constant “witch war” since Gardner over the question of who is “doing it right.” Even farther back, we can see what happened to the Golden Dawn movement as it fractured into multiple lodges in the opening years of the last century. It happens within every religious movement, and I have no reason at all to believe that it does not also happen within Hellenic or Aztec groups or within Canaanite religion for that matter.
It is certainly not unique to paganism. The Big Three religions killed millions of its own over questions of who was doing it right. It’s a human nature problem, and one that I believe is greatly compounded within any religion which designates a separate caste of clergy authorized to mediate and define legitimate experience of the gods for us. Anyone who thinks they’re going to get away from this problem by only hanging with their own kind or by disavowing pagan identity in favor of “polytheism” is, to put it mildly, unrealistically optimistic.
We also need to remember that most pagans of whatever stripe these days are not even a full generation removed from the authoritarian faiths they grew up in, most commonly Catholicism or Evangelical Christian of one sort or another. Nobody sheds all their baggage as fully as they imagine.
Finally, we must remember that paganism is a movement of misfits. Many are misfits in the finest sense of the word, in that all great explorers and innovators are misfits. Others are just, well, misfits – social and emotional cripples who flock to a non-dogmatic religion because no others would tolerate them. There are always people at any festival who can’t seem to observe the most basic ritual etiquette or diplomacy whatsoever and then get angry when anyone deigns to “judge” them because of it.
A lot of the problems you experienced at public events point to a need for better leadership and clearer understandings about mutual respect and the fact that none of us should expect to monopolize public rituals with diverse participants. I’ve been part of some wonderful and diverse rituals where we had people from radically different trads calling the quarters in their own way or other parts of the ritual.
It’s maddening of course, to see it within paganism as we should “know better.”
Paganism doesn’t do diversity as well as it could. We don’t do anything as well as we could, but the solution to that is more, not less engagement from people who care. Don’t let the idiots of our movement grind you down. Use a kind word when it works, but don’t be afraid to leave a few bootmarks on a few hindquarters. If you feel like paganism is part of your spiritual homeland, don’t let anyone move you off. Being one of us is not for the faint of heart, and being a Canaanite hasn’t exactly been a downhill walk for most of the last 4,000 years either.
@Kenneth
I agree with most of what you wrote, but I found the following sentence very ironic:
I’ve been part of some wonderful and diverse rituals where we had people
from radically different trads calling the quarters in their own way or
other parts of the ritual.
Calling the quarters is a *very* Wiccanate ritual practice, deriving from Ceremonialism. In m y o p i n ion , i f a community is attempting to create rituals that honor the diversity of practice in modern paganism, calling t h e quarters should happen at a minority of the rituals.
@yahoo-PMTLR3IIGKPHZ2YNU3PDXWK4WA:disqus and @dda9b3d556de5595e238710c42349a3b:disqus :
Ian has a point here about calling quarters. It is a practice that, as I understand it, is primarily associated with Wicca and may not be associated with other Pagan religions. I, myself, don’t call quarters.
Kenneth, I partly agree with you here: “It’s a human nature problem, and one that I believe is greatly compounded within any religion which designates a separate caste of clergy authorized to mediate and define legitimate experience of the gods for us.” Yes, it is a human problem, and sometimes it is aggravated by clergy, but not always. Many times clergy is a strength and an asset. And thank you for your kind words, Kenneth, they are much appreciated.
That’s just one thing by way of example. The home coven I helped create in recent years is made up of a core of us who came from Wiccan backgrounds and our practice tends to reflect that, although we’re not formally Wiccan anymore. That said, when I go to someplace like Circle Sanctuary, I’m probably in the minority. Lots of hedge witches and heathens and some Asatruars and people who work with the fey etc. I guess to a large degree it tends to run mostly along Indo-European traditions. By definition, the ritual calendar and names do. They celebrate Beltaine, and of course that’s particular to our end of the spectrum.
I’m open minded about community rituals and would love to see and experience participation from others outside of our spiritual genus, as it were. That said, I think at some level you can only go so far to create a truly non-denominational ritual. If we strip out every last element that might seem exclusive to one tradition or another – any reference to particular deities, any ritual elements or movements, even the scheduling of rituals which might be presumptive of one tradition etc., there’s not much left to work with. We’d be left doing content-free rituals on dates that have no meaning for any of us.
I’d rather see events organized by a sort of rotating group of people from different trads. Maybe one month it would be more Wiccan or Asatru in flavor. Another time, more Canaanite. It’s a difficult issue. At some level too, there’s a debate about whether extreme eclecticism honors any of our gods properly. I think there’s room for plenty of inclusiveness, but if we combine too many elements from radically different trads into each ritual, it can end up being a meaningless mish-mash. I don’t know what the answer is to be perfectly honest. We need to be more inclusive, but at the same time I think people look to have some sort of continuity and familiarity in their rituals.
It may be that some trads are just too different to to very much ritual work together, I don’t know. If Canaanite religion and, say, European trads have radically different understandings of the ritual calendar, how to honor the gods and how to run a ritual, it may just be that it’s not practical to do rituals together on an ongoing basis. That doesn’t mean I don’t want folks like you in the community. I think there’s great opportunities for educational workshops, magickal practice which might be good to cross pollinate, and in long weekends or weeklong events like PSG, chances to experience each other’s rituals in authentic, rather than watered down forms. The answer may be that we simply don’t have common ground ritually and we shouldn’t force it. You should be able to be part of the pagan community without having to “act Wiccan” and I’d probably make a poor Canaanite. I’ve already flown one Middle Eastern religion into the ground!
Doesn’t mean us Indo-Europeans and you folk can’t still have a damn good time together in the hills somwhere!
I’d rather see events organized by a sort of rotating group of people
from different trads. Maybe one month it would be more Wiccan or Asatru
in flavor. Another time, more Canaanite. It’s a difficult issue.
This is how we’ve approached it in Champaign-Urbana, IL.
We have a very small and diverse Pagan group out where I live. We have tried super hard to make a generic/Universal ritual format that is comfortable for all to participate in with the knowldege that each of us practices privately in ways more in line with our beliefs/traditions. We’ve tried to do this for years and have come to the realization that people really want to worship exactly how they want to worship and generally get bent out of shape if any thing is different. An inclusive ritual seems to make most present feel uninspired or they focus on how it would be different if they were doing it. We had the general rituals just as a way to come together, share our thoughts at a pot-luck after and just have some fellowship in a respectful, diverse environment. We are a small minority and thought numbers would help us support each other even if one of us saw the Moon as Goddess and another as a God, we could still thank ‘the Moon’ during a ritual.
I do believe an acknowldegement that most Pagans have a few things in common even if it isn’t always the same things does help us. I wrote to Patheos several weeks ago to state my disappointment that we were listed as ‘New religion’ on one of their pages. I also get disappointed when we are listed as ‘Other’. However, how can I be disappointed when it looks like Pagans will never come together and stop pushing our differences instead of embracing our similarites. I have been reconstructionist for many, many years and am Goddess centered now. I was not raised Christian or have ever been a Wiccan. I have identified as ‘Pagan’ my entire life and while, especially during my recon days, I sometimes felt the need to let people know exactly what kind of Pagan I was, it still fit. While we are not all ‘earth-centered’, most of us do have seasonal festivals of some sort and probably do give thanks to the earth (however personified) and/or nature spirits. While we may not all be hard polytheists, most of us honor or respect the concept of pluralism and the idea that divine energy has many personalities and they are valid. Many of us honor our ancestors or other spirits. These seem overly simplified but it does set us apart from many other ‘faith traditions’. There are even more similarities when we speak with each other specifically about different traditions. Even people of the same tradition do not agree 100% with each others’ spiritual worldviews. We will always have differences, otherwise we’d be clones. Some of us do appreciate the diversity AND see similarities and like the idea of building inclusive, respectful, fun and diverse communities. I like the term Pagan because I believe it is a large enough umbrella for most of us. I have no problem clarifying what ‘I’ believe in relation to that umbrella term should someone ask. If we want schools to lay off our kids and military tombstones with our symbols it will definitely help us all to be united on some level instead of each of us trying to always educate and defend our very specific traditions.
Hi, Heather. You say:”…it looks like Pagans will never come together and stop pushing our differences instead of embracing our similarites.” I would like to invite you to embrace the differences as well as the similarities. I think that we Pagans may best come together when we don’t just look past the differences and into the safety net of similarities, but when we actively honor that we are different and it is ok.
I agree completely, that’s why I wrote, “Some of us do appreciate the diversity AND see similarities and like the idea of building inclusive, respectful, fun and diverse communities. ” I love the diversity. I would just like to see it be a community-building element and not one of divisiveness where people feel slighted if they aren’t represented exactly how they demand all the time or if others push people away because they are not exactly like themselves either. Differences are good and keep things evolving. Middle ground is also good to meet and share and enrich each others’ lives with attitudes of peace and respect.
I’m saddened to hear that you’re running into so many ignorant and rude Paganfolk.
Regarding folks who just can’t wrap their brains around the notion of a Moon God, yours is not the only religion of which they are ignorant – Lunar Gods are common across the Near East and Far East as well as Central Europe. Heck, even the Eddas give us the Moon as male.
As to the “Pagan elder” with whom you dealt, I’d suggest that zie isn’t much what I would tend to regard as an Elder if the statement was “this is not the way things are done (full stop)” rather than “this is not the way things are done in my (T/tradtition/path).”
Yes, there are Pagans who espouse a lot of “One True Way-ism”, and I rather suspect that there have been since the dawn of time.
I’ve yet to meet anyone mortal who embraces diversity perfectly.
On the lighter side… if a bunch of Paganfolk are waffling on about how “dead wrong” you are… I’d suggest you’re actually being included into a larger group of Pagans than the one from which you’re being excluded.
And I am sick to death of narcissistic whinging based on these kind of imagined slights. Why do people so love to cast themselves as the victim? Boo hoo.
When have you been excluded, Tess? By whom? What exactly was said or done to make you feel excluded? For example, where are these supposed surveys that assume that all Pagans are Wiccans?
The fact is that Pagans tend to be so obsessed with inclusivity and not hurting anyone’s feelings that often the definition of Paganism is left so vague that it ends up meaning nothing at all.
I have to say as someone who practices a form of Paganism that is arguably even less known than Canaanite Paganism that I’ve never been made to feel not included among Pagans because I don’t belong to a Wicca-type Pagan style.
Hi Kauko, I’m glad you haven’t encountered this problem. What form of Paganism do you practice?
I practice Finnish Paganism (Suomenusko seems to be the most accepted Finnish term). The problem I’m most likely to run into is people assuming that Finnish Paganism is the same as Norse/ Germanic Paganism, since Finland is grouped together with the Scandinavian countries a lot of people who just don’t know any better don’t realize that Finnish culture, language, folklore, mythology etc are all complete different than that of Sweden, Norway and Denmark.
Hi Apuleius,
If I were to name names and give dates I would be dragging
peoples’ names through the mud publicly, which I cannot in good conscience do, although I
fully see that you will not believe me unless I do. That’s your call. If you
have heard many people speak about their dissatisfaction, to the point where
you are sick of hearing about it, this indicates that there are many who feel
similarly and that a problem needs addressing.
And I am sick to death of narcissistic whinging based on these kind of imagined slights. Why do people so love to cast themselves as the victim? Boo hoo.
When have you been excluded, Tess? By whom? What exactly was said or done to make you feel excluded? For example, where are these supposed surveys that assume that all Pagans are Wiccans?
The fact is that Pagans tend to be so obsessed with inclusivity and not hurting anyone’s feelings that often the definition of Paganism is left so vague that it ends up meaning nothing at all.
I have to say as someone who practices a form of Paganism that is arguably even less known than Canaanite Paganism that I’ve never been made to feel not included among Pagans because I don’t belong to a Wicca-type Pagan style.
Hi Kauko, I’m glad you haven’t encountered this problem. What form of Paganism do you practice?
I practice Finnish Paganism (Suomenusko seems to be the most accepted Finnish term). The problem I’m most likely to run into is people assuming that Finnish Paganism is the same as Norse/ Germanic Paganism, since Finland is grouped together with the Scandinavian countries a lot of people who just don’t know any better don’t realize that Finnish culture, language, folklore, mythology etc are all complete different than that of Sweden, Norway and Denmark.
Hi Apuleius,
If I were to name names and give dates I would be dragging
peoples’ names through the mud publicly, which I cannot in good conscience do, although I
fully see that you will not believe me unless I do. That’s your call. If you
have heard many people speak about their dissatisfaction, to the point where
you are sick of hearing about it, this indicates that there are many who feel
similarly and that a problem needs addressing.
We’re non-Wiccan, non-European polytheists and magicians. We’re also an integral part of the local (Birmingham, Alabama) “Pagan” community. That community has managed to grow up over the last few years and stop splitting hairs … we just offer mutual respect and support. I don’t explain much of anything unless someone is considering working with us.
I don’t expect to be able to go to a public Wiccan or Druid ritual, or a Heathen sumbel (all of which I enjoy) and do things my way; when in Rome …
I’ve never been crazy about the term Pagan. I think if we could have replaced it, we would have by now (“Domine/Domina, you’re all Gnostics now”?)
I do make a point of correcting certain assumptions, in the right context, but if I sense it might not be helpful, I just leave it.
We’re non-Wiccan, non-European polytheists and magicians. We’re also an integral part of the local (Birmingham, Alabama) “Pagan” community. That community has managed to grow up over the last few years and stop splitting hairs … we just offer mutual respect and support. I don’t explain much of anything unless someone is considering working with us.
I don’t expect to be able to go to a public Wiccan or Druid ritual, or a Heathen sumbel (all of which I enjoy) and do things my way; when in Rome …
I’ve never been crazy about the term Pagan. I think if we could have replaced it, we would have by now (“Domine/Domina, you’re all Gnostics now”?)
I do make a point of correcting certain assumptions, in the right context, but if I sense it might not be helpful, I just leave it.
If nothing else I learned about a new tradition today
If nothing else I learned about a new tradition today
I think this post may be a good and relevant read in this context, as it is written by a Celtic reconstructionist, who explains why “he isn’t pagan” http://roguepriest.net/2011/05/26/why-im-not-pagan/ I feel exactly the same way as he does regarding the term “paganism”.
Yes, indeed, Apollodoros, this blog post is in response to the one you mention.
I think this post may be a good and relevant read in this context, as it is written by a Celtic reconstructionist, who explains why “he isn’t pagan” http://roguepriest.net/2011/05/26/why-im-not-pagan/ I feel exactly the same way as he does regarding the term “paganism”.
Yes, indeed, Apollodoros, this blog post is in response to the one you mention.
Personally, Tess, I can’t wait to explore and learn more about your path. I was not even aware of a Caaninite polythestic path. Sounds fascinating. I would love to know some places I can get good info.
Hi Susie,
For the religion of Natib Qadish, try http://canaanitepath.com/ . For a different
take, try: http://webspace.webring.com/people/nl/lilinah_haanat/
You can read the ancient myths and legends as written by the
Canaanites themselves in Parker’s Ugaritic Narrative Poetry: http://www.amazon.com/Ugaritic-Narrative-Poetry-Simon-Parker/dp/0788503375/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306508414&sr=1-1
or JCL Gibson’s Canaanite Myths and Legends: http://www.amazon.com/Canaanite-Myths-Legends-Academic-Paperback/dp/0567080897/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306508484&sr=1-1
If you want to read translations of the Bronze Age Canaanite
magical texts and sacred calendar, try Pardee’s Ritual and Cult at Ugarit: http://www.amazon.com/Ritual-Ugarit-Writings-Ancient-World/dp/1589830261/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1306508536&sr=1-1
Whisper of Stone: Natib Qadish, Modern Canaanite Religion is
a book that covers the ancient Canaanite religion and how to rekindle it: http://www.amazon.com/Whisper-Stone-Qadish-Canaanite-Religion/dp/1846941903/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306508347&sr=8-1
Good conversations pop up on http://www.facebook.com/WhisperOfStone
and on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canaanitepaganism/
I hope that helps. Yishlam le-ki, Peace and wellbeing to you,
tess
Personally, Tess, I can’t wait to explore and learn more about your path. I was not even aware of a Caaninite polythestic path. Sounds fascinating. I would love to know some places I can get good info.
Hi Susie,
For the religion of Natib Qadish, try http://canaanitepath.com/ . For a different
take, try: http://webspace.webring.com/people/nl/lilinah_haanat/
You can read the ancient myths and legends as written by the
Canaanites themselves in Parker’s Ugaritic Narrative Poetry: http://www.amazon.com/Ugaritic-Narrative-Poetry-Simon-Parker/dp/0788503375/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306508414&sr=1-1
or JCL Gibson’s Canaanite Myths and Legends: http://www.amazon.com/Canaanite-Myths-Legends-Academic-Paperback/dp/0567080897/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306508484&sr=1-1
If you want to read translations of the Bronze Age Canaanite
magical texts and sacred calendar, try Pardee’s Ritual and Cult at Ugarit: http://www.amazon.com/Ritual-Ugarit-Writings-Ancient-World/dp/1589830261/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1306508536&sr=1-1
Whisper of Stone: Natib Qadish, Modern Canaanite Religion is
a book that covers the ancient Canaanite religion and how to rekindle it: http://www.amazon.com/Whisper-Stone-Qadish-Canaanite-Religion/dp/1846941903/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306508347&sr=8-1
Good conversations pop up on http://www.facebook.com/WhisperOfStone
and on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canaanitepaganism/
I hope that helps. Yishlam le-ki, Peace and wellbeing to you,
tess
For all who post on Pagan web sites like this one. You are enjoying the benefits of the long struggle of the Pagan community to have a voice. Yet, some use this forum to deride the Pagan community. If you are not Pagan why do you take advantage of all we have gained through years of hard work, education and community building? Yes we are inclusive, Yes we honor diverse beliefs, but if you want to loudly proclaim your non Pagan status, consider venues not identified as Pagan.
The community has struggled for to long to have a very small number of people, who post allot, to tear it apart and create division
Peter, I’m not certain to whom you’re speaking but I’ll go ahead and answer myself. For many years I have loudly proclaimed that I *am* Pagan–much to the chagrin of Pagans and non-Pagans alike–and I still believe I am Pagan. I am disappointed with others who seem to think I am not Pagan because my beliefs and religion are different; and I hear the same from many reconstructionists and non-Wiccan Pagans. Far from deriding the Pagan community or Wicca, I am trying to engage in a conversation to better understand what is going on in our community/communities and what we can all do to better facilitate understanding and communication.
Tess
This comment was more directed at the broader debate going on that encompasses other posts also.
Blessings.
If you take a hard line against ordaining women and gays, the Pope will let you join that church, recognize your existing ordination and let you keep most of your ritual forms and liturgy!
All that and more for the low one-time price of giving him a culture war win! And while we’re on the subject, the Anglican Communion could use a good kick to their hornet’s nest. Some non-pagan pagans would be just the thing!
;-O
Kenneth, isn’t that more a problem with the dogma than the clergy?
For all who post on Pagan web sites like this one. You are enjoying the benefits of the long struggle of the Pagan community to have a voice. Yet, some use this forum to deride the Pagan community. If you are not Pagan why do you take advantage of all we have gained through years of hard work, education and community building? Yes we are inclusive, Yes we honor diverse beliefs, but if you want to loudly proclaim your non Pagan status, consider venues not identified as Pagan.
The community has struggled for to long to have a very small number of people, who post allot, to tear it apart and create division
Peter, I’m not certain to whom you’re speaking but I’ll go ahead and answer myself. For many years I have loudly proclaimed that I *am* Pagan–much to the chagrin of Pagans and non-Pagans alike–and I still believe I am Pagan. I am disappointed with others who seem to think I am not Pagan because my beliefs and religion are different; and I hear the same from many reconstructionists and non-Wiccan Pagans. Far from deriding the Pagan community or Wicca, I am trying to engage in a conversation to better understand what is going on in our community/communities and what we can all do to better facilitate understanding and communication.
Tess
This comment was more directed at the broader debate going on that encompasses other posts also.
Blessings.
If you take a hard line against ordaining women and gays, the Pope will let you join that church, recognize your existing ordination and let you keep most of your ritual forms and liturgy!
All that and more for the low one-time price of giving him a culture war win! And while we’re on the subject, the Anglican Communion could use a good kick to their hornet’s nest. Some non-pagan pagans would be just the thing!
;-O
Kenneth, isn’t that more a problem with the dogma than the clergy?
I consider you a Pagan, and we would love to having you part of our community. You must be traveling in tight circles, and we have faced the same situations within the movement (I hesitate to call it a community). Let’s face it, such a young idea, born of the 21st century is still looking for a true identity and is more of politics than of belief.
I consider you a Pagan, and we would love to having you part of our community. You must be traveling in tight circles, and we have faced the same situations within the movement (I hesitate to call it a community). Let’s face it, such a young idea, born of the 21st century is still looking for a true identity and is more of politics than of belief.
Hi Tess,
You are entirely a pagan. Me too. In monotheistic religion, there is one god- meaning only one way, one right way. Their hatred for polytheists is truly based in that. If there is more than one god, there is more than one way. To them, having respect for any way than their own is blasphemy. That’s politic, and I’m amazed so few see it. Pagans respect all gods, all ways. That’s why religion couldn’t take a political hold until they exterminated the pagans. We have to be careful of modern pagan groups falling into such a thing. Most of them come from monotheistic backgrounds. There is no one right way to believe, just your own way to believe.
Hi Tess,
You are entirely a pagan. Me too. In monotheistic religion, there is one god- meaning only one way, one right way. Their hatred for polytheists is truly based in that. If there is more than one god, there is more than one way. To them, having respect for any way than their own is blasphemy. That’s politic, and I’m amazed so few see it. Pagans respect all gods, all ways. That’s why religion couldn’t take a political hold until they exterminated the pagans. We have to be careful of modern pagan groups falling into such a thing. Most of them come from monotheistic backgrounds. There is no one right way to believe, just your own way to believe.
I hear ya Tess, any pagan related event I’ve personally been to strongly tends towards Asatru and Wicca. But, when I mention that I am not of those particular colours, I am still embraced as part of them. I am saddened to hear that a community that is meant to be inclusive has pushed you away.
In the group I had participated with most frequently (I’ve since moved, but keep in contact) they created a ceremony that allows for each participant to honour or call in their deity of choice, and had each participant contribute in their own way in ceremony. This is what I’ve come to expect now, but have found that it is not the norm. Because of this, I like to remind fellow pagans that we have the freedom to create ceremony, and are not limited pre-constructed ceremonies of different paths.
In one situation, the group I was in wanted to construct a calendar that worked for our regional climate, as following the Celtic calendar had spring far earlier than the reality of where we were. I had then created a series of Ehoah Calendars that worked for the Northern Hemisphere, Southern Hemisphere and then the combination for the two for a world calendar. They loved it and found that it worked very well, but by the time I was complete, they had felt that it would be better for individual use rather than for the group as a whole. They explained that the point of the Pagan Association was to be inclusive to all paths and felt that this would create a feeling of exclusion to those who followed a different calendar. So instead of using the calendars I made, they put all sacred days and events onto the common Gregorian calendar for each different path that was involved so that everyone could celebrate the diversity. This I felt worked very well for what the group had wanted. I then asked about what I should do about the calendars I did make, as they were completely nature based and still useful (and after spending 2 years on making them, you do kind of get attached). They simply pointed out that I was making my own tradition and that I should keep doing so as they felt it was a very complimenting path to their group. And lo, I did and I came out better for it, as I took a very important lesson from this. It is great to create to include, but it is bad to create to exclude. This is what I feel Paganism should take and run with.
That’s a great account of your experiences. Your Community sounds pretty great.
Yeah, they totally were. Now in my new community, I’ve found one neighbour who is openly, shall we say different from traditional stripes in their beliefs, as they don’t consider themselves pagan. After an invitation from my neighbour to help out at a spiritual retreat in the Algoma Highlands I met a great number of different people who also lived on Manitoulin Island that were openly Pagan – but they all live an hour from where I am! (yeah, this Island is HUGE) At least I know that they are there and we can get together on major events. You just don’t know what you’ve got till you don’t have it anymore. I guess I better feel damn lucky for meeting other folks of the same strokes on the largest fresh water Island in the world, heck getting to live here is pretty damn lucky.
I hope that all you lovely people are finding other peeps of similar colours near your homesteads, just to talk over coffee (or tea in my case) and know that you understand each other. I feel kind of bad turning people down over here when invited to church, as they are well intentioned. But I’ll likely say something that will blow the doors off the church with me shortly behind them, and with the ground drying up, there ain’t no soft mud to land in.
I hear ya Tess, any pagan related event I’ve personally been to strongly tends towards Asatru and Wicca. But, when I mention that I am not of those particular colours, I am still embraced as part of them. I am saddened to hear that a community that is meant to be inclusive has pushed you away.
In the group I had participated with most frequently (I’ve since moved, but keep in contact) they created a ceremony that allows for each participant to honour or call in their deity of choice, and had each participant contribute in their own way in ceremony. This is what I’ve come to expect now, but have found that it is not the norm. Because of this, I like to remind fellow pagans that we have the freedom to create ceremony, and are not limited pre-constructed ceremonies of different paths.
In one situation, the group I was in wanted to construct a calendar that worked for our regional climate, as following the Celtic calendar had spring far earlier than the reality of where we were. I had then created a series of Ehoah Calendars that worked for the Northern Hemisphere, Southern Hemisphere and then the combination for the two for a world calendar. They loved it and found that it worked very well, but by the time I was complete, they had felt that it would be better for individual use rather than for the group as a whole. They explained that the point of the Pagan Association was to be inclusive to all paths and felt that this would create a feeling of exclusion to those who followed a different calendar. So instead of using the calendars I made, they put all sacred days and events onto the common Gregorian calendar for each different path that was involved so that everyone could celebrate the diversity. This I felt worked very well for what the group had wanted. I then asked about what I should do about the calendars I did make, as they were completely nature based and still useful (and after spending 2 years on making them, you do kind of get attached). They simply pointed out that I was making my own tradition and that I should keep doing so as they felt it was a very complimenting path to their group. And lo, I did and I came out better for it, as I took a very important lesson from this. It is great to create to include, but it is bad to create to exclude. This is what I feel Paganism should take and run with.
That’s a great account of your experiences. Your Community sounds pretty great.
Yeah, they totally were. Now in my new community, I’ve found one neighbour who is openly, shall we say different from traditional stripes in their beliefs, as they don’t consider themselves pagan. After an invitation from my neighbour to help out at a spiritual retreat in the Algoma Highlands I met a great number of different people who also lived on Manitoulin Island that were openly Pagan – but they all live an hour from where I am! (yeah, this Island is HUGE) At least I know that they are there and we can get together on major events. You just don’t know what you’ve got till you don’t have it anymore. I guess I better feel damn lucky for meeting other folks of the same strokes on the largest fresh water Island in the world, heck getting to live here is pretty damn lucky.
I hope that all you lovely people are finding other peeps of similar colours near your homesteads, just to talk over coffee (or tea in my case) and know that you understand each other. I feel kind of bad turning people down over here when invited to church, as they are well intentioned. But I’ll likely say something that will blow the doors off the church with me shortly behind them, and with the ground drying up, there ain’t no soft mud to land in.
It’s unfortunate you don’t feel connected to Pagans nor understood – but is this really a requirement? It seems so many just want to “belong” – yet there is resistance to people who don’t know who you are or what you stand for. Personally I say, who cares! If your path is right for you, it shouldn’t matter if others understand it or not. If you want love, perhaps you should seek it unconditionally – ie. not on condition people make you feel welcome, understand you etc. There are so many polytheistic ways out there, no one could possibly know and understand them all. Be yourself, answer honest questions and those who are drawn to you will be there. I’ve been in the Canadian community for many years and long ago gave up trying to be understood by all – the birds of “my” feather have found me.
It’s unfortunate you don’t feel connected to Pagans nor understood – but is this really a requirement? It seems so many just want to “belong” – yet there is resistance to people who don’t know who you are or what you stand for. Personally I say, who cares! If your path is right for you, it shouldn’t matter if others understand it or not. If you want love, perhaps you should seek it unconditionally – ie. not on condition people make you feel welcome, understand you etc. There are so many polytheistic ways out there, no one could possibly know and understand them all. Be yourself, answer honest questions and those who are drawn to you will be there. I’ve been in the Canadian community for many years and long ago gave up trying to be understood by all – the birds of “my” feather have found me.
Paganism is all inclusive by its origin of being “everyone else”, as stated by the Romans saying that everyone who isn’t of an abrahamic faith is not them.
so despite many narrowly defined definitions of pagan, much of the world IS Pagan; Buddhists Hindus, Zoroastrians and of course the many Neo Pagans out there. Pagans should realize that there is a difference between Neo and Traditional Paganism. The two may mix, but they aren’t the same thing. Traditional Paganism is that of our ancestors. Yes we may not have the texts or full expose of religious practices, but its pantheism, animism and ancestor worship.
Neo Paganism CAN be near sighted when trying to make sense of the varied paths around them. They forget that there were good and bad gods. That each pantheon had a full and rich story involving the gods. Many choose the many facets way of looking at the deities, being adapted from the Hindu faith. Not all gods want what’s best for you. Some want to dine on your flesh. Some will only bother with you if they deem you worthy. There are very few cute and cuddly or light and love gods out there. Neo Paganism is the shepard’s pie of religion, which is great because it allows each to follow an individual path, adopting personal truths for greater personal understanding and universal wisdom. But we should not mistake it for traditional ancient ways. They may be ancient ways, but taken from their original contexts.
Paganism is all inclusive by its origin of being “everyone else”, as stated by the Romans saying that everyone who isn’t of an abrahamic faith is not them.
so despite many narrowly defined definitions of pagan, much of the world IS Pagan; Buddhists Hindus, Zoroastrians and of course the many Neo Pagans out there. Pagans should realize that there is a difference between Neo and Traditional Paganism. The two may mix, but they aren’t the same thing. Traditional Paganism is that of our ancestors. Yes we may not have the texts or full expose of religious practices, but its pantheism, animism and ancestor worship.
Neo Paganism CAN be near sighted when trying to make sense of the varied paths around them. They forget that there were good and bad gods. That each pantheon had a full and rich story involving the gods. Many choose the many facets way of looking at the deities, being adapted from the Hindu faith. Not all gods want what’s best for you. Some want to dine on your flesh. Some will only bother with you if they deem you worthy. There are very few cute and cuddly or light and love gods out there. Neo Paganism is the shepard’s pie of religion, which is great because it allows each to follow an individual path, adopting personal truths for greater personal understanding and universal wisdom. But we should not mistake it for traditional ancient ways. They may be ancient ways, but taken from their original contexts.
Hi Tess,
It’s really great to hear another perspective on this. One of the things that has kind of thrown me off recently is the number of polytheists I have run into who don’t consider themselves Pagan for any number of reasons. Most of what you mention here as different from most Pagans actually describes my beliefs and practices and those of most of the Pagans I know.
What I normally find among polytheist groups who don’t consider themselves Pagan is that they are actually trying to distance themselves from Paganism as they understand it. In most cases, it seems to be simply because they feel the practices and/or surrounding theologies of most Pagans, and especially Wiccans, are too different, but in the most extreme cases, it seems to be an almost shunning reaction, complete with prejudices about class level, education and even promiscuity. I know there are some very real differences, calendars, deities, worship practices, etc., between a large number of religions, be they Pagan, Heathen, polytheist, reconstructionist or otherwise, but I have looked in depth at many of these religions and don’t find the gaping differences that so many others do. I don’t think it’s necessary that we all fall under the “umbrella term,” but it saddens me that there seems to be so much divisiveness and exclusivity and this has apparently been your experience in the reverse of mine. : / I don’t know that we’d agree on everything, but it’s nice to know that someone else out there is thinking along the same lines. If you drop me a line, I’d be happy to hear about your path and I’ll even requite your Pagan love!
Blessings,
John
Hi Tess,
It’s really great to hear another perspective on this. One of the things that has kind of thrown me off recently is the number of polytheists I have run into who don’t consider themselves Pagan for any number of reasons. Most of what you mention here as different from most Pagans actually describes my beliefs and practices and those of most of the Pagans I know.
What I normally find among polytheist groups who don’t consider themselves Pagan is that they are actually trying to distance themselves from Paganism as they understand it. In most cases, it seems to be simply because they feel the practices and/or surrounding theologies of most Pagans, and especially Wiccans, are too different, but in the most extreme cases, it seems to be an almost shunning reaction, complete with prejudices about class level, education and even promiscuity. I know there are some very real differences, calendars, deities, worship practices, etc., between a large number of religions, be they Pagan, Heathen, polytheist, reconstructionist or otherwise, but I have looked in depth at many of these religions and don’t find the gaping differences that so many others do. I don’t think it’s necessary that we all fall under the “umbrella term,” but it saddens me that there seems to be so much divisiveness and exclusivity and this has apparently been your experience in the reverse of mine. : / I don’t know that we’d agree on everything, but it’s nice to know that someone else out there is thinking along the same lines. If you drop me a line, I’d be happy to hear about your path and I’ll even requite your Pagan love!
Blessings,
John