After threats and harassment, NC teen abandons atheist group

Sad news: After suffering threats and harassment a North Carolina teen has been forced to abandon her efforts to form a chapter of the Secular Student Alliance at her public high school.

15-year-old Kalei Wilson waged a brave and determined battle against school administrators at Pisgah High School to form the group. Indeed, the decision to allow the atheist club was made only after significant pressure was brought to bear by the Secular Student Alliance (SSA), the Freedom From Religion Foundation and the American Civil Liberties Union.

However, fearing for the safety of her family, last night Wilson announced that she is bowing out. The following excerpts from posts to Wilson’s GoFundMe page help tell the story:

I’m nervous about the first meeting this week. This morning I brought some flyers to hang up at school but I don’t think they will remain on the walls long.

We have permission to post them but if the people who continue to message me with horrible stuff sees them, I bet they tear them down.

This morning I was called “Satan” by one Christian girl who first called me a “dumb c&^t b*&^h!”

I know what I’m doing is right but it’s scary…

And then last night this post appeared:

It saddens us to report that due to the numerous threats and the verbal attacks on Kalei along with the vindictive witch-hunt to hurt the reputations of affiliated local groups and our own family, Kalei will not be continuing with the group.

We have contacted GoFundMe and requested they return your generous donations. They have assured us that your funds will show back up in your respective accounts within 3 to 5 days.

Your love and support are priceless and we apologize in letting you down. It was our single goal to support Kalei in her efforts to start the much needed SSA club.

However, we never expected our family and friends to be sought out and demonized. Please know that we recognize the importance of the club but we can not justify our involvement with the risk of our families safety and well being.

Hemant Mehta at Friendly Atheist sums it up well:

No one — atheists, Christians, anyone — should have to deal with this sort of retaliation from other people because of who they are or what they believe.

The whole episode is a sad and painful reminder of the formal and informal persecution, intimidation and harassment that atheists, agnostics and other freethinkers often must face.

It is also a stinging indictment of the hypocrisy, the arrogance, and the cruelty of the Christian community at large. One can only wonder, where were the so called “good Christians” while this teen was being threatened and harassed?

Kalei Wilson, Pisgah High School Secular Student Alliance

Update: NC school retaliates against atheist teen for trying to start secular club

 

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Kelly A
    • Douglas Boyle

      I wouldn’t be so excited about it 😉

      • Kelly A

        i’m not. i’m pissed it was that obvious this would happen.

  • Boomer

    Who would Jesus persecute? Good job Xtians.

  • Michael Kleinpaste

    That’s just good Christian love there. And people wonder why separation of church and state exists.

  • Jon Jonathan

    This was quite sad to read. Hopefully it will be history the same way slavery and sexism (almost) is.

    • Odin47

      USA, I think worse than the old USSR…

  • J.W. Browning

    Just what I would expect.

  • Muehlenhard Kris

    this is so disgusting, If we played these same tactics towards these persons church/s we would already be facing charges

  • Peter_Rowney

    Disgraceful and so typically Christian. I hope they are all so proud of themselves.

    • http://www.RandallReynoldsDesign.com/ Randall Reynolds

      They are proud of themselves! Bigots usually are!

  • Andrew

    wouldn’t happen everywhere. I know many Christan and non Christian people who would be horrified at this. some of the people you know must be very small minded.

  • Odin47

    America, land of the free!…lol

  • Tom Taylor
  • http://www.RandallReynoldsDesign.com/ Randall Reynolds

    These Christians are just as bad as the Muslims who send death threats over cartoons of muhammad.

  • Eric Van Bezooijen

    I live in a very liberal area of America, and I’ve noticed a Christian billboard (“After you die, you will meet God”) is constantly being defaced, which offends me as much as Christians defacing atheist billboards, signs, etc. However, since there are most likely 5-6 times as many believers and non-believers, if an equal percentage of them are willing to deface property of the opposing viewpoint, the chances are much greater an atheist message is going to be vandalized.

  • Mike Wheels

    I would kindly like to suggest that you out all the people who threatened you and your family – bully tactics like this are inappropriate and reflect people’s fear that the one thing they have modeled their life after is folly – and that thought is creeping into their minds. If they were so sure of their beliefs they would not need to resort to such tactics to protect what they believe in… And I’m sure that such behavior is wholly un-christian…which in itself is hypocritical.

    • Austin Covello

      That would be a good idea, except that typically this is done anonymously though fake chat names, etc. so that you CAN’T out the perps.

  • Rebekah Kennedy

    Any so called Christian who makes a child feel unsafe ought to feel deep and abiding shame.

  • Jordan Sugarman

    Take the story to the area churches. I’m willing to bet that some of the more reasonable pastors will have a thing or two to say to their flock about threatening the non-religious into silence.

    • Jeff See

      I’ll take you up on that bet, and raise you half-more again. Every church within miles is most likely going to trumpet that as a victory.

  • Gareth Pritchard

    I just find it hilarious that these “Christians” the ones that are supposed to be loving and kind, as it says in the bible, are often the worst. I find the hypocritical nature of many Christians to be highly entertaining. They complain that their ways, and their religion is being persecuted, but, they take no time to harm atheists and threaten them.

  • Nathaniel Martin-Long

    The students, and possible parents/faculty/ who did this are nothing more than new and upcoming members of the American Taliban.

  • Adam Steed

    This makes me sad. Christians can be really mean when they feel threatened. She has every right to not believe as they to believe. Threatening her family crosses more than one line. Her school should stand up and defend her from harassment like this.

    • mamiel

      That’s because it’s an absolutist, exclusivist religion that feels that they are right and everyone else wrong. Not all religions are like that but the ones that are (islam and x-tianity) tend to spread all over the globe and destroy every belief system that won’t bend to it. It is predatory by its very nature.

  • terfull

    So now she has a tiny glimpse of how Christians around the world, and increasingly more so in America, are treated.

    • Dark Ambient Hex

      Please, you’re allowed to pray to your GGAAWWDDDDD in public, you’re allowed to build 934473824782 churches on every street corner, your churches don’t pay taxes. Yeah, screw you buddy. You’re not being persecuted, but you hunt down atheists like they’re witches. Try again.

      Also, I am not an Atheist, I am just strongly against hypocrisy. Which is exactly what you’re trying to spread.

      • Red Dawg

        Churches can also build next to bars, but bars can’t build next to churches. And bars pay taxes.

        • terfull

          In the founding of this country, which was built first: a church building or a tavern?

          • Austin Covello

            Pfft. The tavern. Let’s face it: somebody HAD to be drunk off their ass when they thought up the shit that’s in the bible. lol.

          • Red Dawg

            What the heck does that have to do with what I said? Go pick a fight with somebody else.

          • terfull

            Church buildings trump bars. That’s what it has to do with what you said. Do you not remember your topic?

          • TDukes

            Take an American history class. They were “purifying” their water with alcohol in the 1800s. You think churches were trumping bars?

          • terfull

            The water was clean then. Yes, they drank, but they didn’t build a tower to it.

        • Dark Ambient Hex

          It’s completely absurd. I feel that churches should have to pay taxes like the rest of us do.

      • Jack Stanley

        Keep spreading this point, their are enough good Christians out there whereas they should be able to put Christ’s message of peace and love to the forefront, and not the “other message” of hate and alienate…or whatever some Christians translate in their narrow and stunted minds.

        • Dark Ambient Hex

          This is exactly what the hate mongers of Christianity need to take into their tiny misinformed brains. Although I do not follow Christianity either, I know exactly what Jesus was trying to convey, Love and peace between all people. Not hate and violence!

          Hate begets hate and violence begets violence. This is what some Christians do not get.

    • Keith

      yeah man how are christians even remotely persecuted in america, give some example, i’m dying to hear

      • terfull

        You’re doing it right now.

        • noposition

          Because harassing a minor and making death threats is the same level of persecution as not automatically agreeing with everything Christians say on the internet..

          • terfull

            You really believe that crap happened? What makes you think it came from Christians if it did?

          • noposition

            Who said Christians were doing the harassment? I never did. I only mentioned that Christians and I disagree on the internet which you previously said was persecution of Christians.

          • mamiel

            What would be the motive for a non-Christian to do it? Really? Think about it.

          • terfull

            Most people hate Leftists.

          • mamiel

            Whoever said she was a leftist?

          • terfull

            Only Leftists are this delusional.

        • Mary C

          Ok so if you think someone DISAGREEING with you on a discussion forum is persecution, then I can see how you would find it hard to live in America. jeez.

          • terfull

            Disagreeing, name-calling, crying for censorship, insulting…same old story that these sad people do because they feel bad about themselves and project it onto others. I haven’t said anything about my personal beliefs, yet I’m getting attacked.

        • David S Wiener

          You are a nut bar. You have the right to be a nut bar. I even support your right to be a nut bar. You freaking nut bar.

          • terfull

            That all you got?

        • Jack Stanley

          Criticism and arguing are not forms of persecution, if they were , then we are all persecuting people all the time…don’t be soft…

          • terfull

            Then why does Obama cry all the time?

        • mamiel

          criticism is not persecution. Do you think any non-Christian or atheist would ever be allowed to be president in this country? Atheists are far more persecuted. Christians mere have a persecution complex. There’s a big difference.

          • terfull

            Ha! You really think Obama is Christian?!? Wow!

          • mamiel

            Ha Ha Ha, ok, now I get it. you are one of those delusional types who probably thinks Obama was born in Kenya. Well, ya can’t argue with crazy! So I won’t even try…

          • terfull

            We don’t know where he was born. All the documents are sealed.

    • ChuckV

      I’ll grant there are a some places in the world were Christians are persecuted. However, you are not persecuted in the US. Not at all. In the US, people are pushing back against Christians putting their religion in the government.

      It’s bad form to falsely claim persecution when your group has been persecuting others.

      • terfull

        Then why is God not allowed everywhere as He used to be? Why is Christmas being blocked?

        • cadet_blue

          Christmas is being blocked??? lol. Did you not get to celebrate Xmas last year? Did someone say they would kill you or burn your house if you celebrated Xmas? Where you not allowed to go to church on Xmas day? How exactly were you not allowed to celebrate Xmas in 2013?

          • terfull

            Do you mean during “winter break?” at the “solstice gathering?” where people could only say, “Happy holidays?”

          • cadet_blue

            Give me a fucking break. You can say whatever the fuck you wanted to say. Merry fucking Christmas.

  • dj

    please no one respond to terfull he is probably a troll and relishes your anger don’t feed the wildlife

    • terfull

      I don’t relish anger. Most of the comments on here are angry and aggressive in their sweeping generalizations about Christians.

      • Mary C

        Most of the comments above are speaking directly to the actions and behaviors of the christians in this story, not sweeping generalizations.

        • terfull

          Oh, honey. You really think so? Why aren’t they talking about ministering to the sick, ending slavery, working for equality–that’s the majority of Christians throughout history.

          • Mary C

            I’m pretty sure you are a troll. But I’m bored, so I’ll bite. First, don’t call me honey. Second, yes, that is what I said.
            I have reading comprehension skills above the 8th grade level.

          • David S Wiener

            Mother Terresa – enjoyed watching the sick suffer and die. She’s called a saint.

            The bible has chapters on the proper way to treat your slaves.

            The bible enshrines persecution of gays, non-believers, women, the sexually active, bad children, etc.

            Not only are you a nut bar, you are not a very intelligent nut bar. You’re kind of a nut bar lite.

          • mamiel

            You forgot the part about incest in the bible. And god telling the Hebrews to attack their neighbors, take their stuff, and dash their neighbor’s children’s heads against the rocks. Good stuff.

          • David S Wiener

            I was going to list everything that was wrong, but I was afraid there might be a 100,000 limit on posts. 😉

          • James

            Because this isn’t a story about them; it’s a story aboutabout the continued polarization and chilling effect some Christians have trying to maintain an illegitimate status quo in certain parts of America.

          • Evan D

            Christians used the Bible to back slavery for decades, before some sense prevailed. Yet still most of them are old, racist, homophobes running our country. I’m not sure what period of time throughout history Christians hailed equality…. The Crusades… The Holocaust…. Slavery (as I mentioned)… The anti-gay agenda…. hell they even hate each other! Look at the protestant/catholic massacres of Ireland and elsewhere. No. No belief holds equality sacred. Ministering to the sick is a laugh. Catholic bishops build playboy mansions, pastors maintain salaries well above the necessary *be as Jesus was* line. Your points are invalid, but your belief is not – because it is yours. And everyone is allowed to have one, no matter how skewed it is.

          • terfull

            Who ended slavery? Christians. I don’t think you’ve ever met a follower of Christ.

          • John Pyle

            the abolitionists were primarily Christians. Read up on John Brown and the abolitionist movement.

          • Dano

            Atheists do these things everyday. You’re obviously living in your own world. You know nothing about the real world.

          • terfull

            I’ll admit I know nothing of the imaginary world in your head.

          • Wade Wilson

            What about the part of the bible that says its ok, to own slaves? Titus 3:1, “Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good.”
            Titus 2:9 “Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them”

            1 Peter 2:18 “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.”

            Col 3:22 “Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.”.

            Remember Christians were also fighting to up hold slavery during the American Civil War. (Figured i should put this here also)

          • terfull

            Who ended slavery in the US? Christians. What was the state of slavery at the time of the writings in the Bible? Similar to holding a job.

          • probablysomejerk

            Okay, so I’m not going to flat out say that being super racist means that you would support slavery, but… well, I couldn’t find a “list of top ten states that wish slavery still exists”

            So here are the top ten most religious states:
            http://www.gallup.com/poll/114022/State-States-Importance-Religion.aspx
            (Christianpost.com also referenced this, so it must be valid, right?)

            and here are the top ten most racists states:
            http://www.thetoptens.com/most-racists-states-us/
            and/or
            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2428103/Majority-Americas-racists-live-areas-slavery-common-says-new-study.html

            Odd, isn’t it, how they coincide.

          • terfull

            Where does Al Sharpton live? He’s the most visible racist in the US. How are they defining racism? What about crime rates?

          • probablysomejerk

            It kind of looked like a peoples’ vote for one of them, which, I understand, isn’t hard data. Living around the US, though, it certainly seems that I experienced the most racism (outside of my lovely home state of AZ) in the South. Not the only, but certainly the most.

            racism |ˈrāˌsizəm|
            noun
            the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
            Crime was definitely not part of the topic, but I know where you’re going with it. I’m going to assume that you were bringing “crime rates” into the conversation so that you could make a racist comment about crime and black people (not poor people, or any other linkage to the cause of criminal behavior).

            I’m also going to guess that you’re from the South, due to your usage of “honey” and “bless your heart”. I could be wrong, but… I’m curious. I’d never heard “bless your heart” before I moved to the South.

            Oh, but, if you want, since racism deals with finding a race inferior (or your own superior), we’ll go with which states have the most active KKK chapters
            http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/ku-klux-klan/active_hate_groups

          • TDukes

            You keep throwing out sexist insult after sexist insult, and you want to insult another culture for the way they treat women? Take a look at your own misogynistic actions.

          • terfull

            Oh, sugar dumplin’, I’ll use it for you, too.

          • ChuckV

            They aren’t talking about that because the topic of this article is Christians harassing and threatening a high school student.

          • Wade Wilson

            What about the part of the bible that says its ok, to own slaves? Titus 3:1, “Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good.”
            Titus 2:9 “Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them”

            1 Peter 2:18 “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.”

            Col 3:22 “Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.”.

            Remember Christians were also fighting to up hold slavery during the American Civil War.

    • Ashley N.

      Definitely a troll. Look at his other posts.

      • Mary C

        Yes. And not a very good one at that.

        • terfull

          Yet you reply. What does that make you?

          • Mary C

            I already told you that I’m bored tonight. If we were in a bar and you were sitting next to me saying this stupid shit, I’d reply just the same, for entertainment’s sake. But the calling people names thing is getting tiring so I think I’m just gonna move on.

        • Ashley N.

          Name-calling when all else fails is the definite sign of an unintelligent mind.

  • ddsasasd

    Arrest those people making threats, they are not following the constitution, FREEDOM OF RELIGION. If you seriously have to make threats because someone doesn’t agree with YOUR belief, then you are neither a true American nor a true Christian, you are just an embarrassment to humanity.

  • Thomas Jerome Graham

    I sent that school’s library $300 worth of Atheist books. Hopefully the next generation will be smarter.

    • ddsasasd

      That’s awesome but sadly, the next generation won’t be much different, not while childhood indoctrination and harassment continue. What good are the books if children do not know how or are terrified to pick up books and think for themselves what they believe?

      • Thomas Jerome Graham

        Making the material readily available is the key.
        Do you think that threatening an openly gay student in that school would be as tolerated as threatening an atheist?

        • tomjohnson

          That’s one that requires some thought, but in NC it’s a good bet either one will get you bullied in High School.

    • Jeff See

      There’s only one book those kids are picking up – the one their parents indoctrinated them with.

      Please tell us if you receive any threats for your donation.

      • Thomas Jerome Graham

        I can’t wait to be threatened for my Atheism! I’m a retired wounded veteran with nothing better to do with my time but track them down and press charges.

        • Jeff See

          Good! I hope she does the same, though she probably won’t; it probably would only bring her more ire.

  • Dark Ambient Hex

    It is now safer to claim Paganism than to be an Atheist in the US. It’s like a modern day witch hunt.

  • michaeljorangemikelowrey

    This good Christian left his native South a long, long time ago!

  • EnnuiEffect

    Sickening. I weep for the future.

  • Miguel Vega

    i thought witch hangings were outlawed in the 1600’s

    • Jack Stanley

      only on paper

  • Austin Covello

    This is more proof that we need an atheist militia to protect our children and beat the shit out of the kids that bully them. Let’s see how tough these bible-thumping punks are when this girl is walking between two burly bodyguards. I guarantee you, her club would be in session, then.

    • Jeff See

      And then you become no better than the low life scum who are making the threats. THEN they would arm themselves. And then, finally, you’d have the middle East, in NC.

  • noposition

    I’m certainly glad America sends a clear, consistent message of being against religious extremism, especially when that extremism threatens others ability to be free and diverse… oh wait

  • David S Wiener

    Kalei – you are strong and courageous and are a role model for others, including many adults. You are also a kid and your safety comes first. You will go on to do great things while the sad xians you go to school with will wither. You have nothing to apologize for. In all seriousness, I salute you.

  • Scott Stubler

    The American Taliban is alive and well.

  • Danton McDiffett

    I admire you, Kalei! You keep standing up for what you believe in and don’t let the hypocrites get you down.

  • Daniel

    “It is also a stinging indictment of the hypocrisy, the arrogance, and the cruelty of the Christian community at large. One can only wonder, where were the so called “good Christians” while this teen was being threatened and harassed?” Where, indeed? And do people who would treat a child this way for exercising her conscience deserve to be considered Christian?

    • Master Atheistic

      Yes because it follows upon the long tradition of vileness contained in that nasty little zombie rabbi death cult.

  • Jody Blake

    I don’t blame you for fearing for you and your family’s safety. As history as shown us Christians aren’t the most understanding people. They’re definitely one of the crazier groups out there. In other words, “Christians (or any other organized religious group for that matter) are scary as f**k”!!!

    • terfull

      Yes, Christians are beheading people all over the Middle East right now screaming “God is great!” while making their women wear burkas. Christians are selling non-believers into slavery in Africa. Christians are mutilating women’s genitals. Christians are killing inconvenient unborn babies in the name of women’s right to choose. Bad people those Christians.

      • Yes

        Moronic reply.

      • Oh Please

        Yes, because what muslims in a theocracy are doing has everything to do with what christians in a first world country that espouses ‘freedom’ are doing. Seriously.. where are the christ like values in anything this girl has gone through?

      • Jack Stanley

        The wrongs of one religion do not justify or loosen the wrongs of another, even if they are worse. That is like saying someone should get away with assault and battery because there are murderers out there. You are just trying to sweep hypocrisy and ignorance under the carpet.

      • Bec

        No, thats in Africa. Wrong news report you are thinking of. Christians are attacking Muslims, Buddhists are attacking Muslims, Christians are attacking Christians. If you look outside your Islamaphobe bubble, religious people everwhere are killing one another. Its a hobby of theirs I guess.

        • terfull

          Oh, honey. You’re just sad.

      • mamiel

        Actually, you are correct. Most people who have abortions in this country are Chrisitan, since its the predominant religion in this country. Go to your church and look at all the women in the pews and realize that a good portion of them have had abortions.

        • mamiel

          From the Guttmacher Institute ” Thirty-seven percent of women obtaining abortions identify as Protestant and 28% identify as Catholic.[3]”

        • terfull

          I’m sure PP hopes to eliminate all the blacks and “Chrisitans” according to its founder.

      • Wade Wilson

        I guess you don’t know your world history. In 1982 a Christian Militia slaughter between 762 and 3.500 civilians. ” Many of the bodies found had been severely mutilated. Many boys had been castrated, some were scalped, and some had the Christian cross carved into their bodies.” Christians have had some blood on their hands too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

        Or in 1995 the Oklahoma City bomber, Timothy McVeigh. Who was christian terrorist who attack the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

        Also can’t forget 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, carried out by Eric Rudolph, a card carrying member of the Christian Terror group, “Army of God”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Olympic_Park_bombing

        Just remember all religions have terror groups, because some people want to spread their faith and beliefs by force. So do a little reading and learn some facts before you speak.

        • terfull

          Honey, those are all crazy socialists.

      • chyrd

        I guess you conveniently forget Hitler was a christian

        • terfull

          According to whom? Christians don’t hate Jews; Christians came from Jews. Jesus on earth was a Jew; Jews wrote the Bible.

          • chyrd

            History… crack a book.

          • terfull

            So Hitler was born-again, washed in the blood of Jesus Christian? No, not at all. However, most mass murderers are indeed atheists: Stalin, Mao, Pot Pot, the North Korean Kims…they all murder in the name of atheism trying to replace God.

          • Jim Weatherby

            No, Hiter was a Roman Catholic.

            Stalin etc, killed not in the name of atheism, but rather in the name of totalitarianism, a religion unto itself. They set themselves up as deities, all powerful; they used atheism to snuff out the competition. Atheism was misused as a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. They don’t murder in the name of atheism… they use atheism in order to establish their singular total authority, and kill in the name of totalitarianism. All monotheistic religions are totalitarian in nature, Jehovah being the all powerful superhuman authority.

            You are misinformed if you believe those tyrants murdered in the name of atheism.

          • terfull

            Hitler wasn’t very good at being an RC. Why was religion an opiate to Stalin if he didn’t just want to fight against it? Honey, you’re just getting more pitiable now.

          • chyrd

            Hitler was a catholic. But I guess that doesn’t count right? Atheism can never be the causation of anything as it it is simply the lack of belief in a deity. Do you eat lucky charms because you don’t believe in leprechauns? Stalin went to seminary so he learned how tocontrol the minds of the people that way.

            As for Christians not hating Jews I suggest you read up on martin Luther and Calvin. Maybe read about the dark ages and passion plays which were ordered by Christians to blame the Jews for deicide. How about the inquisitions both catholic and Christian… guess who was tortured.

            Please share how your lack of belief in pixies, dragons, unicorns, Santa, and the tooth fairy has been the causation of anything you’ve done.

          • chyrd

            Hitler was a catholic but I guess that doesn’t count (Wink)? Let me ask you this… when did your lack of belief in Santa and the Easter bunny ever cause you to do anything? The lack of belief in anything can never be he causation of anything. As Dawkins points out Hitler Stalin and Pol pot all had moustaches. Maybe that was the link in their genocidal ways. It makes as much sense.

            As for Christians hating Jews… I suggest you read up on Martin Luther, the inquisitions (protestant and catholic), passion plays made to incite violence against the Jews etc…

            BTW… Stalin attended seminary and learned first hand from Christians how to control the masses

          • terfull

            Lack of belief in the sanctity of life causes millions of abortions.

          • chyrd

            I would argue that most atheists hold a better definition of what sanctity means. Atheist for the most part feel that since life is finite and we don’t get a second chance in an afterlife that the life we have is precious. Curious as to why you’re changing subjects and not answering my question? Let me ask another. Are atheists the only people that get abortions? I think it safe to say they aren’t. Besides… the god of the bible LOVES killing children.

      • tkadtkad

        a lot of truth in this but I might add this point. it’s less that Christians are ‘more moral’ imho, and more that they fail to achieve the ‘good housekeeping’ seal of approval that they are what they claim to be. they seem no more or less capable of atrocities.

      • Jim Weatherby

        “Christians have abused, oppressed, enslaved, insulted, tormented, tortured, and killed people in the name of God for centuries, on the basis of a theologically defensible reading of the Bible.” (Sam Harris)

        terfull, Christians did that for thousands of years.

        selective memory much?

        Christianity is no better than Islam on the moral score card…

        Puhleeze…

        • terfull

          Jim, honey, you need a real hobby. Was that real Christians or those who were forced to call themselves that because of the Roman Catholics?

          • Jim Weatherby

            I fail to see any distinction… and I fail to see how anyone can make such a distinction, since one cannot read the true transcripts of the mind of another.

            honey.

          • Jim Weatherby

            I am pleased to see that you are the final arbiter of true Christianity!

            It’s wonderful that over the ages, so many of your predecessors failed to discern the true meaning of Christianity, but you have apparently got it all figured out! kudos!

          • Jim Weatherby

            “The problem, however, is that the teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. You are, of course, free to interpret the Bible differently – though isn’t it amazing that you have succeeded in discerning the true teachings of Christianity, while the most influential thinkers in the history of your faith failed?” (Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation)

          • terfull

            That’s why you’re so lost, little darlin’.

  • Ashley N.

    That poor girl. I’m so sorry, honey, that more people didn’t act like good people and stand up for you.

  • Picarochi

    What a brave young lady, my heart goes out to you. And shame on the people that bullied you and/or turned a blind eye to your treatment. You have my deepest respect for trying to stand up for your beliefs and do something good at such a young age, I know at that age I used to just nod and agree whenever it came to religion, and would never have dared to do what you did. You should be proud Kalei, and I hope that this does not stop you from stepping up again in the future.

  • John Pyle

    As a Christ follower, I first want to apologize for how some people who claim to be Christ follower’s have treated you and others. We are guilty of pride, hate, and other actions that have no place within the One we follow. This article makes me sad because obviously the people that were hating this young lady have no place within the body of Christ and have not read or followed his teachings. I don’t know how they could torment her and call themselves Christians. Being a NC native, I know many people here are cultural Christians but have no idea about any of the teachings of Christ. I don’t know how you would read the parable of the Samaritan and then act like these people are.

    • Kenton Forshee

      So it’s not the followers of Jesus that do such things…it’s the fans. I really wish the followers would do something about the fans. They’re out of hand.

      • John Pyle

        I agree 100%. We have shitty people in Christianity for sure. I’m sure all groups have shitty people in them but we in the emergent movement part of Christianity will keep raising our voices to tell the bigots that there is not place for that when you truly look at Jesus’ teachings and how he treated people of different faiths and creeds.

        • Lisarie Gleason

          Groups–well, the smarter non-religious groups–will boot the shitty people. They don’t apologize or make excuses for them. Something akin to, “Oh well,” will never be uttered. It is stopped; it is fixed, and progression moves on. Please, John, lead me to your group of emergent Christians. A url or Facebook page would be great. Oh, and this page can’t contain one word about how someone must become a Christian to be satisfied with their life. I’ll wait while you look that up.

        • Jim Weatherby

          “if you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you’d resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, with the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. ” (Bill Maher, Religulous)

    • 9B9K9999

      I think as a former believer now atheist, you are on to something there. It’s your burden to get lumped in with crass tribalists. People of good will could, should, band together to combat this mindlessness. You will have your work cut out to separate and reclaim your version of what it is to be a true believer, expect resistance!

      • John Pyle

        Thanks for this post! I agree that there are some messed up Christians. However, the new wave of Christianity among the younger Christians is called the emergent movement. For us, its all about following the TEACHINGS of Jesus and not getting stuck on some miniscule Old Testament verse that in no way relates to today. When we follow the actual teachings of Jesus we see that we should love others no matter what they believe or who they are.

        • Lisarie Gleason

          The bible is just a book; an organized anthology of stories written by men. Those stories were chosen to be where they are in the bible, as an attempt to make one flowing story. If you, and your special Christians don’t like how stories are being used, take them out. Trust me atheists won’t mind. We might even respect you more if your book didn’t read like a snuff film.

    • JansSushiBar

      “Cultural Christians.” I like that; it’s a marvelous description of most of the Christians I know.

  • The Bad Wolf

    Never give up kid! You aren’t the only one who fought the religious pushers in school!

  • mamiel

    I am not an atheist, nor am I a Christian. I think you are brave and I can see how you tried to create a space for freethinkers in your school who wanted the choice to say “no” to drinking the Christian kool aid.

    You will be welcomed here, in San Francisco with open arms when you graduate should you decide to blow the heck out of that ignorant, backwards town. Never stop thinking for yourself and asking the critical questions and standing for what you believe in.

  • Zachary Witt

    As a Catholic, I say that the insults she got are harsh and she does not deserve them. As humans we are imperfect and all we need is love and truth. If I were her, I would hate Christians much more. It is time that Christians, not all, but most, became actual Christians.

    • Merari

      Ghandi said, and I paraphrase: “I like your Christ but I do not like your Christians.They should be more like Christ.”

      • Charlie Murphy

        *Gandhi* also let his wife die instead of giving her ‘evil western medicines’ then months later took the same medicine to cure his own illness. Turns out Gandhi is a hypocrite too.

        • Merari

          Even hypocrites can make a good point now and then.

  • Douglas Wooten

    I feel like I had one of the best opportunities to grow up in california and in a city that is very diverse in thinking as much as the many cultures that were there. It saddens me to know that there are areas of the United States that still holds prejudice and hatred towards their fellow people.

    • Jordan It’snoteasybein Green

      North Carolina is awful about that, I know a few people that live there and they have some pretty bad stories about it.

  • http://freethinking.me/ Andy Uyboco

    The headline is misleading. It seems to imply that she was bullied by the atheist group, hence she left.

    Perhaps it would read better as: …teen abandons EFFORT TO FORM atheist group.

    • JDub314

      I thought the same thing.

  • Izzy

    This is just terrible. High school sucks in general but this crap makes it worse.

  • Mickey Rayfield

    As a Christian I find it totally repugnant that any Christian would threaten or bully a child, we do not have to agree with her lack of belief but we do have to respect her right to her opinion. Her lack of faith in no way threatens my faith and as a veteran who served to protect the rights of all I find this behavior to be morally wrong. Her rights are just as important as the rights of any Christian or any other faith.

    • Kirt A White

      You are right except that she does not have a “Lack of belief”, or “lack of faith” they are just in a different place.

      • Mando44646

        FYI Atheist is from the Greek Ateos meaning ‘lack of belief’. He is correct in that definition

        • Mitchell

          The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning “without god(s)”, used as a pejorative term applied to those thought to reject the gods worshipped by the larger society. A= no or non, theos = god… It does no service to misrepresent atheism, often atheists will say that atheism isnt an affirmation or belief in anything they present this it is “disbelief in” view to try in remove the burden of proof, because anytime you affirm something “god doesnt exist” that carries the burden of proof or justification… So they hide behind this non affirmation stance, but basic understanding of reason and rationality would note that when you disbelieve in something you are obviously affirming something it is impossible not to…. The burden of proof lies equally with both the theist and atheist, saying it is disbelief in and not the belief that there is no is a form of semantics to avoid the burden of proof that comes with affirming something DOESNT EXIST.

          • Mando44646

            depends what your philosophical stance is on the existence of god and how strong it is. Are you familiar with the scale Dawkins puts forward in the God Delusion? For all of Dawkins’ faults in other things, I really feel that this scale is super-useful. He states that he is a 7 on the scale, and I also tend to agree with that stance. a 7 means that he (or I) does not accept the current evidence for the existence of any gods. This is not a stance that says ‘god does not exist’, it is a stance that says ‘god probably does not exist but i am willing to change my view if evidence contradicts it’. There is no onus of burden of proof on that stance. The burden of proof lays solely on the theist here (and also of course on someone who IDs as a 10 on the scale and says that god does not exist for sure).

          • Jim Weatherby

            Mando44646, I believe you have misrepresented Mr. Dawkins scale. A “1” on the scale is certain god exists. A 7 on the scale is equally certain god does not exist. Mr. Dawkins identifies not as a 7, but rather as a 6.9.

            Mitchell, No one denying the ;positive assertion of another has any burden of proof. But nice ad hoc attempt to change the rules of logic…

          • Mitchell

            Thats exactly my point i was to make next atheist present their information as certainty, but you can’t prove non-existence, so the problem is not as you have described the problem is atheists are over asserting in their claims.. Agnosticism is what an honest person is actually stuck with, you cannot ever say God does not exist it is an affirmation and cant be proven one has to say they arent convinced or dont believe it to be true, but these arent for 100% sure, yet most atheists present it as God Does Not Exist which is an affirmation and unprovable.

          • Jim Weatherby

            Mitchell, do you believe unicorns exist?

            Can you disprove their existence?

            Disbelief does not require proof. Only the lack thereof.

            Epic logical failure, dude!

          • Jim Weatherby

            I am agnostic about the existence of deities, to the exact same extend I am agnostic about the existence of elves, fairies, unicorns, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, leprauchans, etc… I cannot prove to you that any of those things do not exist.

            But I will state clearly that I disbelieve in their existence.

            If anyone then asserts that any of those things DO exist… the burden of proof is theirs, and theirs alone.

            No one ever has the burden of proving the non existence of anything, as doing so is an absolute impossibility.

            The inability to prove the nonexistence of something is not evidence of it’s existence.

          • Mitchell

            I agree it isnt possible to prove non-existence as I have stated many times, you dont claim that you know God doesnt exist as we have established…. I would totally agree that inability to prove non-existence says nothing about proof of somethings existence I have never claimed that…. I commented on the reply that a-theism is the disbelief in something when it isnt at all, it is very much an affirmation of a=no or non theos= god…. With that being said no I dont believe in unicorns santa claus etc… for the very reason you said you dont believe there is sufficient evidence to support the existence of God… I on the other hand believe there is sufficient signs to infer a intelligent origin, even stephen hawkins and richard dawkins state that the universe appears designed, fine tuned and to have purpose, now obviously they both dont think that it is designed or fine tuned or does have a purpose because naturalism cannot support such things, but they admit it appears so …. I believe that the apparent design & fine tuning is in fact just that and I reasonably infer an intelligent origin as a result, the difference between my position and hawkins/dawkins is they have noted the universe appears designed, ordered, fine tuned &purposed, but that it actually isnt it is the result of time plus matter plus chance and entirely natural mechanisms are responsible for the APPARENT design… I coupled with a large handful of other reasons believe the more appropriate model for our observation of our universe is an intelligent origin..

          • Jim Weatherby

            I don’t have the time, energy, or desire to pick apart your absurd post above.

          • Jim Weatherby

            Absurd… positively absurd.

            And you’re completely wrong about “atheism”.

            Even hard atheism, which asserts that there is no god, is not an affirmative position requiring proof, because it’s impossible to prove the non existence of anything.

            As for Dawkins, Hawking, etc… they use the term APPEARS! and then they qualify what they mean by that. You’re taking them out of context, completely!

            Your inference that the appearance of design indicates the existence of a higher intelligence is fatally flawed. We perceive design, because we are designers. We perceive fine tuning, but in reality, it’s backwards. The universe, or the earth, is not fine tuned so that we CAN live here. On the contrary, we exist, because the conditions here allow us to. It can be a difficult distinction to explain or understand.

            The inference that a higher intelligence must exist, is completely ad hoc, and not at all based upon good, objective evidence.

            And if there were a higher intelligence, how does one then get from a higher intelligence to the god of Abraham? of the Bible? to Jesus?

            One doesn’t.

            Said intelligence could be Ted the Alien who blew up his apartment trying to make beer. You are no closer to proving the existence of any god than you were before, nor a higher intelligence.

            I don’t know does not equal goddidit.

            That’s childish thinking. It’s magical thinking.

            I don’t know what preceded or caused the Big Bang. I don’t know how life began, but I lean towards the hypothesis of abiogenesis.

            But I disbelieve in the existence of any higher intelligence responsible for “creation”.

            In my view, the “God” so many people seek is merely Nature itself; an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent IMPERSONAL FORCE, not an anthropomorphic, personal BEING!

            Theists have simply pasted a face over Nature, assigned it human traits, and called it god.

            Epic fail!

          • Mitchell

            I would just note that me and you will have to disagree about a-theism, I believe you are definitely redefining it most of the english language is derived from latin and greek the greek root words literally mean no-god, just like you have symetrical and asymetrical one is symetrical meaning both sides of a vector or shape are the exact same and a symmetrical which means not symetrical meaning both sides arent the same….. And to say all agnostics are atheists couldnt be further from true, there are countless droves of people who beleive in an intelligent origin (aliens, diety etc) that are agnostic which literally means a=no gnostic= knowledge or I dont know, you can lean toward one of the affirmations but it is to say you dont know. I cant help but feel we have digressed you keep restating what I already have said (that you cannot prove non-existence) I have said that at the least 4 different times and that is exactly why atheism no god isnt provable as you have already agreed you cant prove non existence, you are technically defined as an agnostic leaning towards an atheistic claim rather you define yourself as such or not I am just categorizing the positions by what they are literally a=no or non theos=god and a=no or non gnostic= knowledge. I dont infer from what I think is the “appearance” of design I infer from what I perceive as actual design.. The discussion is rather or not it is actual design or merely the appearance of…. Also your use of the anthropic principle is useless, to say the universe isnt fine tuned so we can be here but it is fine tuned because we are here is nonsense it does nothing to explain the massive improbability of all of the constants we see necessary to support life as we know it.. There are many constants and contingencies in physics and cosmology that have extremely precise values and are entirely necessary to support life as we know it and are extremely improbable from an naturalist starting point, so to say it wasnt done before so we could be here it just is cause were here doesnt change the fact that those fine tunings (constants and contgencies) had to be as they are for life to exist it absolutely does nothing to address the improbability of it and without positing some unobservable multiverse theory there is no credible way of explaining it from a naturalist view, were talking precise values from the quantum up to the cosmos, saying it is only because were here doesnt explain it needing to be that way for us to be here, how and why nor does it address the improbability…. We can only use (even in science) what we know and observe in everyday life and in our life today when you see order, information, precision, fine tunings, purpose and/or design you always suppose it came from an intelligent source, we observe these daily in biology, physics and cosmology so it is in no way unreasonable to posit an intelligent origin rather you agree or not… I also would note that one can observe design and infer intelligent source without claiming who that intelligence is… Those discussions of who the intelligence is are for philosophy and theology…

          • Mitchell

            So agnosticism is the actual position “I dont know”. I read and watch dawkins frequently and he never presents information as an agnostic he certainly affirms that God does not exist.

          • Jim Weatherby

            absolute nonsense. but nice ad hoc attempt to rewrite the rules of logic…

    • Lisarie Gleason

      I have the right to not want anyone to be part of the killing of someone else…So you didn’t serve to protect my rights, nor does it cement your morality. Sorry, using faith to clean away blood doesn’t work. I can’t stand people that use a uniform as a point on their moral compass.

  • Steve Gilmore

    I’m a God-revering Christian who knows that God made and gave us the free will (which means we all are freethinking beings), and that we should love others, believers and non-believers, alike, especially since our nations First Law protects us in doing so without violent or harmful repercussions by our fellow countrymen and our government who is suppose to be serving us, not hurting us!! However, many atheist and agnostics are known to attack Christians/Jews, etc, by virtual lies, without swinging a fist, and know how by doing so shakes up the entire community, whether local, regional, national, or global. I’m just saying that while at the same time I sympathize for someone in her position and am dead against the bullying tactics that are not of Godly character, whatsoever, I have my suspicions, too, as to what else might be going on here!! Peace everyone!!

    • Pete Foy

      see you just had to put a However in and you where doing so well up to then!

      • ben

        No, it’s called giving a larger perspective. Are you that devoid of logic and communication skills? Or do you just prefer to live in your deluded close-minded non-freethinking bigoted world? I suspect you didn’t even read the rest of it after that. Typical atheist narcissism. It was a balanced and neutral comment. But I don’t expect atheists to recognize that with such a one-sided and simplistically naive worldview with no reference point for morality. He was kind and extolled peace. But you? What did you do? Rudely criticized with no substance whatsoever in your response.

        • George Joseph Lane

          No it was not balanced, being balanced would have been to cite at least one incident that actually occured when a theist was bullied in a manner vaguely similar to this.

        • Guest

          “Or do you just prefer to live in your deluded close-minded non-freethinking bigoted world?”

          – Haha, irony explosion!

        • Spoodle

          Your reply is the most aggressive comment in the thread. And Steve mentioned ‘virtual lies’ and ‘suspicions’ without providing any substance. The implication of Pete Foys comment is that Steve could not bring himself to fully condemn the religious bullies, he has given them a get-out without explaining why – that’s the substance you’ve somehow missed.

        • Lisarie Gleason

          “But I don’t expect atheists to recognize that with such a one-sided and simplistically naive worldview with no reference point for morality. ”

          Who needs a reference point, when the Christian God (in super Father mode) was just fine with some really horrible things. Would you like to us to use your reference points? You would have to find a bunker if Atheists started using all those biblical reference points.

    • M. Pas

      Yep, Christians can’t be wrong! Lol. As an atheist i’ve been smacked with a bible by one of those good god-fearing Christians. You take a story about self-righteous teen Christians threatening and tormenting another teen but it’s probably her fault for not believing in your god.
      A+ comment good work.

    • C B

      It’s nice to know you at least support her first amendment right and don’t wish ill on her To bad you didn’t stop there. You’re still spouting BS. I’m sure atheists just love lying about Christians. I mean, there’s so much evidence to the claims of the Bible. They have to be lying!

    • CarlFischer

      The atheists you have seen “attack Christians/Jews, etc, by virtual lies, without swinging a fist” are *rather politely* responding to the constant stream of attacks from Christians like, “You’re going to burn in hell”, “How can you have morals without god?”, “Your life has no meaning”, “Your life has no value”, and a host of other BS spewed on a daily basis. Most of us ignore it and move on with our lives. A few speak out, and you think that’s offensive?!

    • Brianeweis

      We really don’t know if it was her intention to ” attack Christians/Jews, etc, by virtual lies…” because she was actually attacked and threatened by Christians and forced to bow out.

    • TheSquirrel

      Better than the lies they tell us about the “Hell” we are going to…

    • Ben

      As opossed to swinging real fists… and sticks, and guns. When imprisoning, torturing, and executing on charges of heresy, or sexual orientation. When crusading against those of other faiths.

      The air is pretty fine up in that pedestal you guys built yourselves upon millennia of oppressing free thought. How about you tend to your own house before you complain about some atheists and their choice words.

      “Peace be upon you”

  • Dower_House

    Well it seems to me that Kalei has already achieved a great deal – salutations.

    • Brianeweis

      If anything, she exposed their hypocrisy and hate.

      • terfull

        You mean “her” not “their.”

        • Brianeweis

          I mean what I say

        • Brianeweis

          I say what I mean,

  • Jeff Tilley

    The same people who stand and applaud Richard Dawkins as he savagely flogs all things Christian and all people of faith at one of his HATE CONVENTIONS want to wring their hypocritical hands over this young lady’s treatment??? Don’t waste my time. And, btw, you and Dawkins mock God at your own eternal peril.

    • John Pyle

      As a fellow Christian, I don’t think this kind of dialogue helps our cause. If we look at Jesus’ life and teachings he had many who hated, opposed, and criticized Him but he responded with complete humility. I say we let them criticize and love them in spite of it. We’ll let God be the judge, we really shouldn’t waste our time trying to judge.

      • stolenxnametag

        Spiteful love? That isn’t a Christian teaching. Benevolent love and tolerance are what Christ taught. This girl wasn’t hurting anyone by establishing an organization, so why would you be spiteful toward her?

        • Jordan It’snoteasybein Green

          In spite of and spiteful have different meanings in this context. Regardless is another word to use. John has it right, Christians are taught to love and forgive others regardless of what they say or do. I don’t have a problem with the real Christians like that.

          • Jim Weatherby

            oh yeah… the REAL Christians… smh

            No True Scotsman much?

          • Jordan It’snoteasybein Green

            I was going to actually write out something intelligent, but then I looked at your other posts and determined your only defense would be “true Scotsman,” or “straw man!” There’s no use in wasting my time. You’re a fucking idiot if you think everyone that associates with the same thing is the same. I’m not a Christian or even religious at all, but I do know there are some Christians that actually follow the teachings of Christ and are better people than you.

          • Jim Weatherby

            lol! nice ad hom!

          • Jim Weatherby

            Christian is as Christian does.

            Christians have opressed, tortured, imprisoned, enslaved, and killed, in the name of god, and with biblical justification, for centuries and centuries!

            In fact, these kids in question indeed behaving in a TRULY Christian manner, consistent with their history!

            Don’t be angry with me for shining the light on reality for you.

            If you don’t like the club, then you shouldn’t belong and pay dues.

          • Jim Weatherby

            If you think that Christianity is the most direct and undefiled expression of love and compassion the world has ever seen, you do not know much about the world’s other religions. “Take the religion of Jainism as one example. The Jains preach a doctrine of utter non-violence. While the Jains believe many improbable things about the universe, they do not believe the sorts of things that lit the fires of the Inquisition. You probably think the Inquisition was a perversion of the “true” spirit of Christianity. Perhaps it was. The problem, however, is that the teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. You are, of course, free to interpret the Bible differently – though isn’t it amazing that you have succeeded in discerning the true teachings of Christianity, while the most influential thinkers in the history of your faith failed?”
            Sam Harris (Letters to a Christian Nation, 2006)

          • Jim Weatherby

            Christians have abused, oppressed, enslaved, insulted, tormented, tortured, and killed people in the name of God for centuries, on the basis of a theologically defensible reading of the Bible.Sam Harris (Letters to a Christian Nation, 2006)

        • Dower_House

          >This girl wasn’t hurting anyone by establishing an organization

          I have already posted in this thread my congratulations to her. She was great to go as far as she did.

          But she was hurting others, in that she was challenging them on their faith, albeit indirectly. When one’s world view is threatened people kick out – even more so as we know that her age group are moving away from the church in droves. That doesn’t excuse the lashing out but may be a partial reason that accounts for their awful behaviour.

      • Jim Weatherby

        You’ll let god be the judge? You mean you can’t judge this situation for what it is, and condemn those who bullied and intimidated this poor girl?

        Another “true scotsman” I see…. pfffffffft

        • rosepetal57

          A true Christian would never condone that type of behavior. God WILL be the judge, but as Americans in a FREE country, we must never succumb to discrimination or threats against those not agreeing with our beliefs.

    • Andreas Sunde

      Criticising your religion as a whole is not the same thing as personal death threats.

    • VickyN

      When is a Christian not a Christian? – Around Atheists of course.

      • Merari

        And gays. And muslims. And womens rights advocates. Basically, around anyone that isn’t exactly like them.

    • CarlFischer

      You’ve got to be kidding me. Dawkins has “Hate Conventions”?! Are you so thin-skinned that you can’t handle someone saying they don’t believe your silly superstition and pointing out the ways it hurts society?

      • Ben

        It’s not thin skin. It’s that their entire world view is based on nothing but a tangled knot of fantasy and unqestioning obedience. Every time you pull on the string you risk unravelling their entire world. The natural human response is to lash out… often violently.

    • TheSquirrel

      “eternal peril.
      LOL, I know I’m saved! The Flying Spaghetti Monster will take me to his stripper factory and beer volcano in the sky when I die!

    • Merari

      One wrong does not excuse another.

    • Jim Weatherby

      False equivalency; when has Dawkins ever threatened harm or violence against anyone for expressing their disagreement with him? NEVER!

      We are free to “savagely flog” any IDEAS!

      We are not free to “savagely flog” other PEOPLE!

      Straw man much?

    • markinator

      Which god that we mock causes eternal peril? There are so many to choose from. This young lady received bigoted, and terrible treatment from christians, and from her school. You think that’s okay, but the young lady, as well as atheists, will continue to grow, and demonstrate the lunacy of all things christian.

    • Miip

      Your just as over mellow dramatic nonsense as your myth jesus. Atheist have criticized christianity as well as other religions. They do not go around threatening bodily harm though.

      The jesus myth said that whoever calls a brother a “fool” shall be in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22), Yet he called people “fools” himself.

      – Before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

      “What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!”

      –Pope Leo X

      (As attributed by John Bale, Bishop of Ossory, in The Pageant of Popes, p. 179, 1574)

      Truth Be Known http://www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm

    • terfull

      Dawkins hides from Ravi Zacharias because he can’t win against the truth.

  • Selarom Yar

    While it is sad to see that a voice can be quieted, again freewill took the path of least resistance. In stead of the fighting for her voice to be heard, she let the opposition drown it out, and hung her hat on the old adage, “for the safety of my family.” While noble as it is, imagine if our ‘forefathers’ of this country stated for the safety of our family, we won’t let our voice to be heard against the tyranny of the British. Where will out country be?

    • Brianeweis

      She’s 15 years old for christsake!

    • TheSquirrel

      YES! 15 YEAR OLD HIGHSCHOOL STUDENTS SHOULD TAKE UP ARMS AGAINST THE OPPRESSORS! JUST LIKE OUR FOREFATHERS, WHO WERE TOTALLY IN HIGHSCHOOL AT THE TIME AND THIS IS CLEARLY EQUIVALENT!

      Jeez dude, I’d have quit too.

      • Ben

        Better at 15 than 18, 21, 30… When virtue is drowned out by practical needs like jobs, debt, and kids of your own.

  • props2u

    Proof that Christians are the most anti-Christ people on Earth. To everyone who threatened this girl, you better hope for God is fake.

  • Ernie Lederman

    You’re some real tough guys, Selarom Yar and ib313. This country is full of angry people, many of whom are religious fundamentalists, many of whom have guns. The young woman and her family may have received death threats which in such an environment could not be dismissed. She’s one young kid in a right-wing-fundamentalist area. Let’s see you in her position and let’s see how long you last.

  • Brianeweis

    Why are Christians so thin skinned? After all Christ tells us, “Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.” Isn’t that what you bargained for when you chose to be Christians?

  • Lisarie Gleason

    Christian or not, these human kids are doing things to another human kid that are completely disrespectful and actually criminal. If the Christian faith does nothing to dissuade them from from exhibiting this horrible nature, tell me again what the benefits are. Are the benefits of faith an ability to be as shitty as you want and think nothing of it? How can it be a faith that teaches joy and love, if those teachings are apparently not sinking in with its followers? I really want know. I see a few theists here. Is this the case? And if the answer is no, then why aren’t you angrier? Why are you not fighting along side of us to help end this sort of hate. You are just watching it happen. Frankly, I see your non-action as an agreement born out of fear.

  • dkidder

    Fear of the unknown from xians. I wonder if they thought about how it would be after they “won” this battle. How can anyone be proud of behavior like this? I hope they know that this is not the end, and they can’t stop the growing tide with their ignorance and childish behavior. There is a huge world outside of the small minds in that high school. This really doesn’t help the xian image. I’m really starting to view them as mean and evil. Is that what they want? What are they afraid of? Knowledge? So, will xians celebrate this “victory”? It literally makes me sick. If anything is being organized to help kalei, let me know. I’m all in.

  • https://twitter.com/ZJSimon ZJSimon

    What kind of work do her parents do? Does ‘Gofundme’ or any other crowd-sourcing operation have an estimate on what it would take to relocate her family?

    • Miip

      I bet the local police would not help them. May be the FBI would?

  • Minh Dao

    “I like your Christ. I do not like your christians. Your christians are so unlike your Christ.”
    -Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

    • Miip

      I would have to disagree with Gandhi. I do not like the myth christ…

      “What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!”

      –Pope Leo X

      (As attributed by John Bale, Bishop of Ossory, in The Pageant of Popes, p. 179, 1574)

      Truth Be Known http://www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm

  • Rudewaitress

    Conservative Christians think everyone has to have the beliefs as they do…frankly they can shove their BIbles…they are much more in tune with Satan than God!! If a person,wants to be an atheist that is their constitutional right..

  • Mitchell

    I would note that as a believer in Christ I find this behavior by “PROFESSED” christians to be grotesque….Christ never called for coercion or bashing he called for presenting information and for people to WILLFULLY choose him not be coerced…. With that said it is a misrepresentation to associate the behaviors of individuals who PROFESS to be something with that actual belief… A more intellectually accurate approach would be to examine the actual belief and see what it says then assess the behavior…. One glance at the NEW TESTAMENT TEACHINGS OF CHRIST will quickly reveal that this type of behavior is the behavior of someone who isnt actually a Christian or they are clearly not living like Christ commanded regardless it isnt a representation of Christ…. After all I dont say all atheists are guilty of murder and genocide because Hitler, Stalin and Mao se Tan (all atheists anti religious leaders) murdered more people in the 20th century than all other centuries mass murders combined that would be a misrepresentation…I will note that I am the first to admit that PROFESSED Christians rather they really are authentic or not are one of the main reasons people are so turned off by Christianity and that is a horrible failure on our behalf even if they arent real christians or are christians not living like Christ we have failed to fully articulate what it means to be a Christ follower and many who are have developed a pompous attitude forgetting the Grace they received…

    • Jim Weatherby

      Ah yes, the oft resorted to “No true scotsman” defense… they’re Christians… they follow your same book and your same superhero. you can’t simply disavow them and say they’re not “true” christians… they’re your people… YOU reign them in and correct them!

    • Omar Bonafoux Reyes

      Hitler was a fervent Catholic

      • terfull

        He really followed the Pope and Bible there, didn’t he? BS!

        • Jont_Musiteur

          He was a Christian. Deal with it.

          • terfull

            Incorrect, but Stalin was certainly an atheist.

          • Jont_Musiteur

            I know this is inconvenient, but the historical record indicates that he was a Christian. You don’t get to redefine Christians according to your own personal taste in the real world.

          • terfull

            I don’t think you know what that word means. Why did Hitler persecute Christians?

          • Jont_Musiteur

            I have a vague idea of what you mean by the word, but it isn’t the standard meaning. Which makes discussing anything with you pointless.

          • chyrd

            Oh really? Which ones? The gypsies? The homosexuals? Do tell…

      • Mitchell

        I mean the mere fact that he hated JEWS is enough!!!! LOL all of the disciples were jewish, Christ was jewish it is a Judeo Christian Belief… There is no honest person that will really say Hitler was an actual christian.. Absolutely ridiculous concentration camp Dachau had around 2,400 clergymen alone over 1/3rd killed right away…. It is a gross misrepresentation to assume hitler was in anyway a Follower of Christ he exhibited none of the Christian virtues…. He made many claims, but they are clear lies any reasonable person can see that, I understand the discontent with religious ideology but at the least be honest to the situation… “The destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the national socialist movement” Baldur Von Schirach (Head of Hitler youth)

  • coolmind

    Atheism is myth understood. Here is a good kid, trying to relate to like minded people, and she is harassed and bullied to conform to a hateful group. This is SO unAmerican.

  • Sunshine1011

    Don’t you love how the one thing a christian person CAN NOT DO is act “christian” towards others?

    • Minh Dao

      What are you talking about? They’re acting PERFECTLY christian.

      There are few things more historically christian than belittling, ostracizing and persecuting everyone who does not share their own narrow viewpoints on everything. Case in point: the Inquisition and charges of heresy.

      • John Allan

        Those were Catholics. Non-Christians may not see the difference, but there is a very big difference.

        • HyperDragon

          Ah, the “no true Scotsman” fallacy. I suppose you are the sole arbiter of Christianity.

          • Scott Patrick Pomroy

            Actually he is correct. It’s Catholicism. I agree with him and that some sects of Protestantism are also this way though. As avid reader of history, myths and world religions I can say that being created by The Roman Empire that Catholicism is the first major church. But it was not based on what the bible says. They added most of the pagan attributes to Christianity. One who practised Christianity before The Romans churned it up and made their own rules with it they were more loving and understanding. More and more are going back to what was practised back before the Romans rewrote it.

          • HyperDragon

            So Catholicism is not a denomination of Christianity? I suppose Eastern Orthodoxy is also not a denomination of Christianity. I guess only *some* Protestants are true Christians. News to me.

          • terfull

            Nice to know you’re still able to learn.

      • Bandimore Fox

        that is why I will never understand the people using the term, those arent true christians, to me it just defends the bad behaviors in a roundabout way.

        • Jim Weatherby

          ah yes… the always popular “no true christian/scotsman” defense…

    • terfull

      I don’t think you know what that term means.

    • Amy C.

      Can you believe that we as Christians are persecuted for our faith?! It’s sad how you treat us!!

      • Jont_Musiteur

        No. You are not being persecuted. Hated and despised – maybe, but claiming to be the victim of persecution when all the evidence points the other way isn’t going to get you friends or sympathy.

  • Miip

    Disgusting! I wish she could of hung in there & of brought charges against those who threatened her.

  • Brooke Alison Vickory
  • brownie19

    What is wrong with Christians? This is a free country. We are free to follow our desires as long they don’t hurt others…be you a person of faith or not.

    • Phil Robles

      What is wrong with Christians is when their beliefs DO hurt others. People want to impose their own personal beliefs on everyone. Condemning and oppressing gays, keeping women as second class citizens, starting wars, etc. If people actually respected the separation of church and state, Christians included, no one would be out to stop Christianity. You know why atheists don’t attack the Amish? The Amish mind their own business and don’t impose their own personal beliefs on the rest of the world. They aren’t campaigning to take away our motorcars and televisions because they personally don’t believe in using that stuff.

    • E Skeezy

      Please don’t judge all Christians by the act of one, misguided girl, who frankly was not acting in accordance with Christian standards. If it was indeed more than one Christian that was threatening- they all should be ashamed of themselves. I would suspect that they are young and immature

      • Bandimore Fox

        I hear this comment quite often “Dont judge the many by the actions of a few” Yes, but I have been attacked by many people simply put: because I have seen how people use religion as a way to hurt others, and they do not like being called to the carpet.

      • Jont_Musiteur

        Really? Looks more like institutionalized bullying to anyone outside your reality bubble. The direct protagonists (one Christian? do you really believe that?) might be young and immature, but the classical Christian role models in the media don’t have that excuse.

      • Jim Weatherby

        Why not, Jehova judged the entire human race for all time by the actions of two imperfect beings, without the capacity to know right from wrong, because that’s how he made them; and then he sent the talking snake to tempt them into eating the magic fruit that made them realize they were naked… are you saying it’s wrong to condemn a group for the actions of one or two members? Maybe you should explain that to your god…

      • agleone87

        The one girl was a specific example. According to the article, she received numerous threats and verbal attacks.
        This is nothing new in the high school scene – a kid at my school was verbally attacked because he was Mormon. MORMON. Not even atheist or Wiccan (belief systems that are often attacked.)
        He wasn’t starting a group… he wasn’t even a strict adherent to the Mormon guidelines. And he still got endless crap from high school “Christians”.
        This happens at schools all over, and this behavior is taught and enabled consciously or subconsciously by their parents and teachers. So with all due respect, I believe I’m passing pretty fair judgement on the American Christian culture as of today. Now fortunately, this new generation of parents is mostly more open-minded, so this nonsense (hopefully) will soon pass. And hopefully, our children can pass judgment based on deeds and character.

  • Matt Wise

    I myself am a Christian and am very upset with how this girl was treated. I only had just heard of this even though I live in this community. I do not read local newspapers much. I would like to offer to stand with her to exercise her rights even though I disagree with her beliefs. If anyone can let her know this or direct me as to how to contact her I would be appreciative.

    • Dan Summers

      They need more people like yourself. Making your voice heard over the hate that others are spewing in the name of your faith.

      My wife is a devout Christian and when I told her about this story she was appaulled that people would treat a teenager this way. I as a pagan get more respect from Christian Pastors then this girl is receiving from her class mates.

  • hogwkB

    So they decide to not start the club for the safety of family and friends, but this site continues to post a picture of the girl with her name? Also how can a ‘Secular Student Alliance’ be also described as an “atheist club” in the same article? Does the writer not understand the meaning of the word ‘secular’ or is the SSA not what their title suggests?

    • Sebastian Adams

      Atheism is secular, it is not a religion its the lack of belief in a deity.

      • Caff68

        Yes, atheism is, itself, secular, in that “secular” is defined as “having no connection with religion or spirituality” but a lot of people now think that the two words are interchangeable, when they’re absolutely not. There used to be a choir in my town, which sang both “sacred and secular” music at its concerts; it’s making me smile to imagine that they would’ve sung “sacred and atheist” music :-)

      • hogwkB

        Atheism : “disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.”
        Secular: “denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.”

        Any group that takes a position on the existence or lack of existence of God is clearly taking a stand on a religious basis and therefore is not secular.

    • terfull

      In this context, she meant atheist.

  • Catfish666

    Sad and sick. I feel for this poor girl and her family. Nice to see true Christianity in action.

  • Melissa McCurley

    Monsters.

  • nikki11369

    Just weeping for her. Weeping for our cause. Weeping for our society that needs to harass and threaten to ensure all remain ignorant. Tragedy.

  • Animal63

    WWJB = Who Would Jesus Bully?

    • Amy C.

      ABSOLUTELY NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • terfull

      Whom.

      • Jont_Musiteur

        According to Fowler’s, “whom” is moribund.

        • terfull

          Who is Fowler? Someone who couldn’t learn English?

          • Jont_Musiteur
          • terfull

            “He opposed pedantry, and ridiculed artificial grammar rules unwarranted by natural English usage, such as bans on split infinitives and on ending a sentence with a preposition; rules on the placement of the word only; and rules distinguishing between which and that.” Thankfully his work has since been rejected outright.

          • Jont_Musiteur

            Really? Yesterday you hadn’t heard of him.

          • terfull

            Because he’s moribund.

          • Jont_Musiteur

            As moribund as you can get. He died in 1933.

  • Glen Terry

    I know a bunch of athiests. I am a religious person myself, but I do not associate with any church, nor do I believe in talking to others about my beliefs unless prompted. Strangely, all the athiests I know (some of whom know my beliefs) like to seemingly go out of their way to tell me that I am delusional, crazy, stupid. I can only assume that their parents did not teach them about things like manners and common courtesy. My point is this: There are idiots like this on both sides of the isle. I don’t care what you believe, you have the freedom of thought just like everyone else. But why must people attack those not like themselves?

    • Trish S

      Not all of the atheists you know do. I know lots of atheists and none of them tell me I’m crazy, delusional, etc. But I’m told that by some of my Christian friends.

    • Michael James McClendon

      Do you have a TV? Are you kidding me? Do you hear the crap that the Right says. How about Faux News and their rabid claims that christians are being attacked by hateful atheists. Come on now…

      • terfull

        “Faux News.” Ha! Did you come up with that just
        now? How very clever. Your intellect astounds. Wow, you should share that. I
        wonder if it will catch on with other Leftist. Maybe people with some agenda
        against one certain news agency even though it’s pretty moderate, and the
        government controls all the others. What if it became some sort of code so that
        every time someone used that term, we knew that person was an idiot? Great
        idea!

  • Bandimore Fox

    I believe she should not have bowed out, by giving in, the Christians will learn that they can get their way through bullying and hateful attitudes. They will do it for anything that tickles their fancy. Christians cant have it their way all the time, that is why it was not wise to disband the group.

    • sparkkeh

      She shouldn’t have had to – but she’s a child. A child being abused and bullied and afraid for her own safety. I would never wish a child to put herself through this unless she chooses to do so. :(

    • Amy C.

      We Christians aren’t out to hurt you guys!!

      • Michael James McClendon

        BS, your book says we are deserving of eternal torture and damnation. That sounds like a whole lot of hurt to me.

        • terfull

          You’re not?

          • Michael James McClendon

            No one is. 80 years of the most despicable thing imaginable would not be deserving of an eternity of the kind of sadistic sadism you wish for, let alone someone who loves their children and their neighbors and is generally good but find religion to be utterly unbelievable.

          • Jim Weatherby

            Deserving of eternal torment for a finite thought crime?

            Nope.

            Only a tyrant would do such a thing!

            Your god is not just, good, merciful, nor forgiving.

            And you’re a complete idiot…

      • Shawn

        I know that all Christians aren’t evil hatemongers, but some Christians are, like the ones who threatened this girl to the extent that she was fearful enough to drop her efforts.

      • Jont_Musiteur

        That’s nice. Not helpful or constructive in any way, shape or form, but a nice sentiment.

  • fr0wn town

    A city councilwoman in a town near mine requested a cross removed from the City Council building, and supported a movement to get new itinerary that did not feature the cross. She received death threats to her children and herself, then moved out of fear of harm. And this wasn’t even in the SOUTH!

  • Fynleigh Strong

    Was anyone being forced to join this group? Why was it a problem? If the religious people had a problem with it then why not just start their own group? Isn’t that what freedom means? That we are all free to worship… or not worship… as we wish? The religious are constantly claiming persecution but, I only see them persecuting lately.

    • terfull

      Christian groups are banned by the ACLU.

      • sparkkeh

        Yes that’s why no schools have any groups like Fellowship of Christian Athletes or Baptist Student Unions. Wait… they DO? Oh, that’s right, it’s TOTALLY ALLOWED – as long as ALL student groups are allowed, and not just Christian ones.

        • terfull

          Colleges have those.

        • Amy C.

          What’s so wrong!! Why do you guys look down upon us who are Christians?

          • Michael James McClendon

            We don’t we look down on being told we are human firewood and deserve to be tortured for all eternity from the time we are little children by you.

          • Shawn

            Who’s looking down on Christians? sparkkeh was just pointing out that Christian groups are allowed as long as other groups are allowed.

          • terfull

            They fear truth. Their own sins convict them.

          • Karl Moretz

            Actually I fear persecution at the hands of Christians way more than truth.

          • terfull

            Paranoia will destroy ya.

          • Karl Moretz

            Not as quickly as being burned alive for heresy.

          • terfull

            I think that’s moslums.

          • Karl Moretz

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

            Pretty sure that was done by Christians.

          • terfull

            No, that’s some Pope or somebody’s doing.

          • Karl Moretz

            Isn’t the Pope, by the very definition, the most Christian of Christians? I mean, the head of the Catholic Church certainly counts as a Christian in most books. At least those books that don’t talk about seeing spot run and similar.

          • terfull

            Many of the Popes throughout history were definitely not Christian, hence the Protestant Reformation.

          • Karl Moretz

            Just because Martin Luther didn’t like the direction the Catholic Church was going, doesn’t mean they weren’t Christian. In fact, I would say that the folks down at St. Mary’s would disagree with your statement. It’s kinda like saying that since the Tea Party doesn’t agree with the direction of the US Government, Obama is not really a President. Honestly, I think you have blown my mind. How the hell can you say the Pope isn’t Christian. The Pope is the official mouth piece of God by Catholic doctrine, ergo, the Pope is, was and always has been a Christian. Seriously, that is amazingly stupid. I can’t even fathom how you arrived at that.

          • Michael James McClendon

            Blah blah blah… Now drop a couple of Bible quotes to “prove” you are right.

          • terfull

            You’ve heard them. You deny them. You are currently without hope.

          • Michael James McClendon

            Ha! Beat ya to it didn’t I :-)

          • AllSeasonRadial

            I actually respect people who live their Christian values— respect, humility, charity, love, faith, forgiveness— without demanding adherence from others who do not share those values. Christians who live their faith without passing arrogant judgment on others as if they themselves were their own omniscient deity made flesh. Because to me as a Christian, that is what being a Christian is— to minister to others without expectation, without reward. All the while knowing that you can’t know the mind of God.

            If your purpose in being Christian on Earth is to be a warrior, to intimidate and threaten others, then you are doing it wrong, and frittering away your fealty on charlatans.

            I’ll stop here, because I was going to say that if that’s the kind of Christian you are then you deserve whatever fate you suffer, but I’m NOT that kind of Christian, and unlike the “Christians” that threatened Kalei Wilson, I don’t pretend to know what kind of fate you deserve. Or what purpose you serve in this life.

      • Shawn

        No they’re not.

        • terfull

          So Bible clubs are in your local high schools?

          • agleone87

            There are a couple at my old high school. “Fellowship of Christian Athletes”, meetings and events openly organized by the church at the school (ex., praying at the flag pole)… so yeah. Christian groups are alive and well at high schools.

          • terfull

            When?

          • agleone87

            Um, now. 2014.
            FCA was strong when I graduated in 2007, it was still going on when my sister graduated in 2009, and it’s still having meetings and such today (my niece is attending.) And the youth pastor still holds the flagpole event and more every couple of months.

          • Karl Moretz

            Growing up in a small town in North Carolina, we had a school funded and supported group called “The Fellowship of Christian Athletes” which along with the daily morning prayer groups and proselytizing included such kid friendly activities as record burnings and open condemnation of “sinners” aka “high school students who weren’t true believers” in the hallways between classes. So yes, Bible clubs were in my local high school, and they were as tolerant as I imagine you to be.

          • terfull

            What decade was that?

          • Karl Moretz

            I’m only 40 so do the math.

          • Shawn

            They’re allowed in all high schools in the US. If you have evidence to the contrary, please cite it.

  • Uncle Willard

    In an age where kids get suspended for biting poptarts into the shape of guns, turning themselves in for accidentally putting a can of beer in their lunch instead of soda, and the color of their hair, shouldn’t threats and language like that constitute grounds for suspension?

    • ParmalatHarlot

      Did this Happen in North Carolina?

      • Uncle Willard

        I’ve just seen similar stories on Reddit from across the country. There’s some crazy and disproportionate rules going on here if a girl can get death threats for something so innocuous as starting a club.

  • Pierce Pyrite

    It isn’t religion or a lack thereof that makes people behave this cruelly. It’s fear and anger as a means to cope with fear. Many evangelicals and anti-theists inspire fear because it’s an effective means to proselytize prospective followers.

    I grew up going to church and have watched a lot of atheist lectures and I have to say it’s an all to common theme in either of these groups to demonize opposition rather than talk about rational morality. If your belief system isn’t about rational morality then what’s left besides sanctimoniousness?

    • Glennskii Meyer

      you must really be searching out some crappy atheists!

    • Michael James McClendon

      I have to say I find the very most venomous and generally threatening persons to be affiliated with a religion of one kind or another. After all in the end they believe we are nothing more than fuel for the fires of Hell. Not like that kind of attitude toward your fellow brothers and sisters could some how lead them to think of us as scum or anything, right? I mean *GASP*

      • john

        Atheism is a religion. So I guess you’re right.

        • Michael James McClendon

          Well that was pretty dumb… On your part. I added that clarifier in the hope you wouldn’t use 3rd grader come back tactics again in your next post.

  • CaptainMurphy

    This makes me really sad. Anyone know how to get up with these kids and give them some words of encouragement?

  • terfull
    • Michael James McClendon

      Is this list somehow an argument that rational inquiry and a lack of belief in a sky god somehow leads to genocide?

      • terfull

        If you could perform rational inquiry, you would find God.

        • Karl Moretz

          Yes, because things like The Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials are a sure sign of rational inquiry.

          • agleone87

            The Crusades, don’t you dare forget about the Crusades!

          • Karl Moretz

            True, The Crusades are hard to forget.

          • terfull

            Prove those were really done by Christians.

          • Karl Moretz

            I would point you to the Wikipedia entries for both…sort of well documented that both atrocities were fueled by religious ire.

          • Michael James McClendon

            Ya they were fake Christians before real Christians existed…. Let me guess you are a Born Again?

          • terfull

            What kind of fake are you?

          • Maestromerwan

            And so dumb he probably thinks Moby-Dick is a sexually transmitted disease.

        • Michael James McClendon

          And you know this how? Not really an answer by the way.

        • MYLES

          YUR A BIG DUMB HUH HUH HUH PPHHHAT

    • Shawn

      This is ridiculous.

    • Sid

      In my mind the men that started the Crusades make those ten men look like a fucking joke in terms of stupidity. Do you want to know who also believed in the Bible, Adolph fucking Hitler! (he used Biblical verses as reasoning for killing the Jews.)

      • terfull

        That’s just sad believing that. Do you want to know who also didn’t believe in the Bible, Joseph fucking Stalin! He killed way more people than Hitler in an attempt to rid Russia of Christianity.

        • Guest

          Yes he did but he never used Atheism as his reason for doing so.

          • terfull

            Yes, he did. “…in an attempt to rid Russia of Christianity.”

          • Guest

            You could also argue that Hitler killed the Jews because of his Christianity. I don’t think that’s entirely true, though granted it’s probably a factor. He was a Catholic, you know.
            Atheism was also probably a motivating factor for Stalin, but just like Hitler was motivated by Christianity, it’s an arbitrary thing and irrelevant to discussion. They were seriously deluded and maniacal.

          • terfull

            Hitler a Christian. HA!

          • Jont_Musiteur

            That was hatred of Christianity. It wouldn’t be far-fetched to suggest a link between his hatred of Christianity and the time he spent at the R. Orthodox seminary in Tbilisi, in any case he was a product of Christian upbringing.

            I agree that Atheists tend to brush off Stalin a little bit too quickly. Especially those that turned Atheist as a reaction to how they were treated by Christians should try to self-moderate before they go into full revenge mode.

            But fundamentalist Christians should also take heed – you reap what you sow. Unless of course you want some kind of Christian vs. Atheist Armageddon with gallons of biblical blood and spatter, in which case carry on, you’re doing just fine.

        • Sid

          The reason he wanted to get rid of the religion in Russia is because
          religion and communism don’t fucking mix! He didn’t kill people because
          he was an atheist.

          • terfull

            Yes. Communism needs atheism.

          • AllSeasonRadial

            No more than capitalism needs faith in an “invisible hand”.

          • Jont_Musiteur

            Well actually it kind-of does, it’s symbolic for market forces… but that’s all it is. Symbolic. Likewise many Christians believe in a “symbolic” rather than personal god. They’re generally not the Christians that go around hating though.

          • AllSeasonRadial

            Nonsense. Capitalism requires no such belief or faith. The symbolism of which you speak is window dressing. Lucre requires only reward and profit and growth, and that is not even a universal requirement. In true capitalism, money talks. Bullsh*t walks.

          • Jont_Musiteur

            You know you should write a book. Wouldn’t be a long one, but you could pad it out with pictures. Avoid D-S curves though, they’re confusing. Probably to you if you think you can describe an economic system in one catchy little catchphrase.

          • AllSeasonRadial

            A catchphrase like “invisible hand”, perhaps?

          • Jont_Musiteur

            Ok make that a pamphlet, no pictures.

          • AllSeasonRadial

            LOL, if your opinion of me is declining, I must be doing something right. My point remains. There is nothing mystical about capitalism. Nor any other economic system. Those who inject mysticism into economics are either fools or swindlers (which granted is a particular capitalist skill).

          • Jont_Musiteur

            If you want to appear as an economic illiterate with an attitude, then yes you’re doing everything right. Much as I hate to repeat myself, but the “invisible hand” is a symbolic representation of market forces. It means there is no visible active agent governing the market. The phrase was coined by Adam Smith, the man that virtually defined the theory of economics, specifically capitalism. It’s what’s known as an allegory, but what it represents is about as central to capitalism as a D-S curve.

            Much as I hate to argue from authority, you need to pick up a book sometime.

          • AllSeasonRadial

            Care to point out where Smith ever once demanded “faith” for his economic theories in any of his tomes? Please. I’ll wait right here while you review. Remember, this discussion began with your assertion that faith is required by capitalism. Withal your “authority” (which just so we are on the same page is clearly indistinguishable from “conceit”), you still have not shown any requirement for faith in any mysticism (allegorical or otherwise).

          • Jont_Musiteur

            I give up.

          • banCoD

            The whole world needs atheism.

          • terfull

            That’s never going to happen.

        • Michael James McClendon

          Nice language. Stalin was a genocidal paranoid lunatic first and foremost with clear psychiactric mental issues. His lack of a faith is compleatly ancillary. To claim otherwise is intelectually dishonest in the extream.

          • terfull

            Does it hurt being as stupid as you?

          • Michael James McClendon

            Nice guy.

          • Jim Weatherby

            yeah, a real christian! lol!

          • terfull

            Thanks.

          • jessanders

            That’s also extremely hateful, for someone who says you can’t be a Christian if you hate. You truly must not be a Christian.

    • greg

      http://listverse.com/2010/02/23/10-people-who-give-christianity-a-bad-name/?utm_source=more&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=direct

      FYI, Jim Jones appears on both the christian and the atheist lists. a religion or lack thereof does not dictate whether people will be a cruel or heartless person, all societies and cultures have their mass murderers and sociopaths.

  • Byron Williams

    This girl is still a hero in my book and gives me hope for the future. I live in a very christian environment and I can only imagine what discrimination and retaliation I would face if I ever revealed myself as an atheist in the real world. My hat is still off to you Kalei!

  • John Burris

    as a christian, i can honestly say this is why i hate christians. i have to say awesome job to kalei, stand up for what you do or dont believe in (sorry, not sure which is proper here). and those christians who mistreated her need to reevaluate and actually read their bibles. but in general, go kalei.

    • terfull

      If you hate, you are not a Christian.

      • Jont_Musiteur

        At least Catholics go through a process to decide whether to excommunicate someone.

      • jessanders

        Then you are not a Christian:

        terfull • 2 hours ago
        She is a “pretty little liar.”

        That’s a pretty hateful statement. What about Satan, do you hate Satan?

        Hate is a natural reaction, and your argument is “No true scottsman” fallacy at it’s finest.

        • terfull

          Well, I am a Scot from Clan mac an-t-Saoir. You have no power here. Begone before someone drops a house on you!

    • Jont_Musiteur

      I wish there were more Christians like you.

      EDIT: No wait, there probably are – but I wish they’d be more vocal.

      • Inquisitor M

        Hear, hear.

  • john

    Atheism IS a religion. Technically, if it’s a public high school a religious organization should NOT be formed. And before all the haters argue, atheism gives an equal but opposite definitive answer to unanswerable questions just like all other religions, such as the topic of god, the afterlife, and many other topics with zero evidence. So before putting atheists on a cross as martyrs, remember that freedom from religion supposedly stands for secularism, but this is truly not secular. The persecution had to stop on all ends to stop on any end. But at the same time, young people should always be encouraged to lead, not discouraged through fear. So this is very sad. Just make sure you understand what “religion” really is.

    • Michael James McClendon

      It is not a religion. What silly nonsense.

    • Ryan

      No, no, no. Saying Atheism is a religion is the same as saying that not playing baseball is a sport, or saying abstinence is a sex position. A lack of religion is not a religion, period. “Atheism gives an equal but opposite definitive answer” NO. Atheism literally provides zero answers, the ONLY requirement for being an atheist is rejecting the existence of any god. Do atheists believe in evolution? Most do, yes. Is evolution a tenant of atheism? No, they are unrelated. Similarly, being an atheist doesn’t demand you act a certain way or follow certain laws. Atheism is a word to describe those WITHOUT religion, hence ‘a-theist’ as opposed to a ‘theist’.

      • michael

        Hey, I got my letter jacket in “not playing baseball”! How dare you say that it isn’t a sport! :O

      • terfull

        Abstinence is a sexual lifestyle.

    • Grokk Heinlein

      Apparently you know squat about atheism. Atheism is simply the rejection of god myths. Definitive opposite answers? Nope. Religion, not at all. It is specifically the lack of belief. Religions involve spirits and such.
      This was an extracurricular student club, they have bible-y clubs there already.
      The hicks were just being hateful little monsters, as they were trained.

    • Karl Moretz

      Religion: A belief in a higher/divine power
      Atheism: An absence of belief in a higher/divine power

    • NM2000

      First, no. just no. Atheism is not a religion and it offers NO definitive answers about jack squat. It has NO shared or official beliefs, morals, tenets, practices, services, texts, holidays, hierarchy, organization, or traditions. The ONLY thing it shares is a lack of a belief in one thing. And merely lacking a belief in something does not make that lack of a belief a “religion” (unless you are also willing to count my lack of a belief that pro football is more entertaining than college football as a “religion”). Heck, as an atheist, I don’t even necessarily believe there is no god, I just lack a belief that there is due to the lack of any evidence for such a being. So “atheism” doesn’t provide an “answer” for squat.
      (That said, you can have religions that are atheistic, just like you can have theistic organizations that aren’t, in and of themselves, religions. But “atheism” itself is not a religion and meets no definition of being a religion.)

      Second, learn your law. The law doesn’t say that no religious organizations can have clubs at schools. It says that you can either have none or allow ANY and ALL. You can’t exclude unfairly or bar access unless you bar access to all. So yes, you can have an atheist club and you can have a Fellowship of Christian Athletes chapter. What you can’t have is permission for one and denial of permission for the other.

      “Just make sure you understand what “religion” really is.”
      You should really take some of your own advice…

      • Anam Paiseanta

        “I don’t even necessarily believe there is no god” Sounds more like an agnostic to me.

        The absence of a claim is not a claim, but the claim that there is NO god, is a claim, and that is Atheism.

        • Jont_Musiteur

          That’s a negative claim, and they’re always a bit problematic with the issue of burden of proof. The positive claim (and I think as good as every atheist would agree with this) would be that god(s) are a human invention to satisfy a raft of human needs. Yes it’s a belief, but a justifiable one that does not require any leap of faith – so it’s not a religion.

        • Inquisitor M

          Wrong. Atheism doesn’t not claim there is no god. Atheist is simply not believing in one. Atheists can be both gnostic and agnostic—it’s an answer to a different question and is not comparable.

          • Wuvixx

            Incorrect. Gnostic Atheists claim there is no God. Agnostic Atheists DOUBT the existence of God. In religion, there is nothing called Agnostic Theist.

          • Inquisitor M

            Congratulations, you said something irrelevant that proves you have no idea what you’re talking about.

          • Wuvixx

            Mind pointing that out?

          • Euniana

            I beg to differ. There are agnostic theists who don’t believe it’s possible to know for certain whether a god exists, but prefer to believe in the existence of a god/gods out of wishful thinking or because it provides them comfort.

          • Wuvixx

            As far as I know, to be a true God believer in religion, you must not have any doubts about God’s existence.

          • Euniana

            That’s a No True Scotsman fallacy. Plenty of religious people have doubts about certain doctrines in their religions. It’s entirely possible for a theist to realize rationally that there is no compelling evidence for the existence of god, but still to cling to belief for a variety of reasons (e.g. emotions, upbringing, Pascal’s Wager, etc). They may not all be strong theists, but they are theists nonetheless.

          • Wuvixx

            I know it’s possible but according to the holy book, you have to be certain that there is atleast a creator of the universe to gain the graces and enter the paradise promised land for all theists. You can’t pray to God if you doubt God’s existence.

          • Elwood72

            Is it so difficult to imagine a world where there is some kind of God, but all the holy books are just made up stories anyway?

          • David N

            Theism is not synonymous with Christianity. It is not necessary for someone’s theistic beliefs to conform to your Christian beliefs about doubt and conviction for them to be considered a theist. A theist is simply someone that believes in gods. There is no requirement that they hold this belief with absolute conviction or that they also find their belief system to be perfectly rational.

          • NM2000

            Then you don’t know enough about religion.

          • NM2000

            I know several agnostic theists so your anecdote holds no water. They quite clearly say that they don’t KNOW that there is god, but they like to believe there is and so they do.

        • NM2000

          Except…not.

          I won’t type it out twice and clutter up the comment section with cut-and-pastes, but please see my response to the other person who replied to my post.

      • Wuvixx

        Atheism means NOT believing in God. What you mentioned in your post is Agnosticism which means you lack belief as a reason of the lack of evidence.

        • Inquisitor M

          Atheism is not believing in God. Agnostic atheists make no claim to knowledge (which is the vast majority of atheists), gnostic atheists claim there is no god. if you don’t even know what atheism is, you might want to reconsider commenting about it.

          • Wuvixx

            That’s exactly what I said…

          • Jont_Musiteur

            Not that discussion again.

            What exactly is the problem with the simple three-way theist-agnostic-atheist model? They’re ballpark concepts that anyone can easily understand without long explanations.

            Gnosticism was a sect that lived and died in the first couple of centuries CE. Its current equivalent would be any number of esoteric cults we have today, but no other extant mainstream religion, philosophy or world view.

        • NM2000

          First, you do not get to define my label for me.

          Second, atheism means not having a belief in a god or gods, NOT having an active belief that there is no god. Merely lacking a belief is atheistic, too. Atheism is a statement of BELIEF. As I do not hold a BELIEF in a god or gods–regardless of the reason or if that lack of belief is passive or active–I am, by definition, an atheist. If I did hold a BELIEF in a god, I would be a theist.

          Third, agnosticism is NOT a statement of belief. Agnosticism is a statement about PROFESSED KNOWLEDGE. If I claim that I KNOW there is a god, I am a gnostic. If I say that I do NOT KNOW if there is a god, I am, by definition, an agnostic.

          Four, because the terms are different, the result is that one can be:

          *An agnostic atheist
          (one who doesn’t claim to know if there is a God or not, but doesn’t believe in one)
          *A gnostic atheist
          (one who does not believe in god AND professes to know that no such god does or could exist)
          *An agnostic theist
          (one who doesn’t claim to know if there is a god or not, but does believe in one)
          *A gnostic theist
          (one who both claims to believe in AND know for a fact that there is a god)
          The two words deal with different—albethey closely related—aspects of spirituality, understanding, awareness, and information: the profession of belief and the profession of actual knowledge.

          I am, most precisely, an agnostic atheist.

          Again, you don’t own or define my label so don’t try to tell me what I am or am not.

    • AllSeasonRadial

      Atheism is a religion, eh? Much like politics is a religion? And economics is a religion? Science a religion?

      There is this logical fallacy, perhaps you’ve heard of it. It’s called “false equivalence”. False equivalence is a logical fallacy where there appears to be a logical equivalence between two opposing arguments, but when in fact there is none. It’s all the rage in online discussions.

      • Anam Paiseanta

        Claims about topics you CAN NOT know for sure at this moment so you accept the dogma of the authorities of the subject….Sounds like religion to me. It is ” religious thinking ” for sure.

        • AllSeasonRadial

          Fine. I’ll put my “faith” in testable evidence-backed thinking instead of “dogma” from anywhere. Sulphuric acid looks just like water; I know which I prefer to drink.

        • Jont_Musiteur

          It’s true that no Atheist (or Christian) can know whether there is a god or not, but it is a justifiable belief – and not a dogma as you call it – that gods are a human invention.

          In the interests of fairness, it’s also a reasonable belief that there is some conscious higher power behind it all. I don’t agree with it, but I understand how a reasonable person could reach that conclusion.

          Things become unreasonable belief or dogma when all the available evidence indicates otherwise.

          • Wuvixx

            I agree with you that no-one can put a 100% percent that his belief is absolutely true. But, I know people who are saying they are pretty sure that God exists which makes me come out and argue with them all day. Though that means that all humans are agnostics?

          • Jont_Musiteur

            Carried to the end, the answer to that can only be “Yes”.

        • Inquisitor M

          What claim? Atheism doesn’t have any claims. There is no dogma *to* accept. maybe you should get a clue about topics you clearly know nothing about?

          • Wuvixx

            If Atheism does not have claims, then Theism does not as well.

          • Inquisitor M

            Depends on your terms. Theism just means believing in a god, which you can do without making any claims, but that’s usually called deism. the particular *brand* of theism has the claims, such as Christianity. if there were groups of atheists with particular, specific views (such as gnostic atheists) then it still wouldn’t affect the umbrella term.

          • Wuvixx

            Theism claims come from unreliable source if Holy Book was what you were talking about. Atheists preferably use their mind to make their own claims rather than getting a lot of unreliable claims from an unknown source which is pretty much from a human design.

          • Jim Weatherby

            Even Deism makes a claim; it claims that there exists a superhuman intelligence which created everything.

          • Jim Weatherby

            Theism claims god exists.

            Atheism disbelieves that claim. That is not making a claim. That is simply rejecting a claim, for which there is no evidence, on the basis of the fact that there is no evidence.

            Atheism is not a claim. Atheism makes NO claims.

            Theism most certainly makes an affirmative claim.

        • Jim Weatherby

          It did not take any “dogma” from any “authority” for me to reach the conclusion that I no longer believed what I had been taught as a child who was raised in the Catholic church. As an adult, I began to question and to think for myself. And all by my self, I reached the conclusion that I disbelieved in the genesis account, the flood story, the virgin birth of christ, his alleged divinity, miracles, or resurrection, or any after life of any sort.

          It wasn’t until I had reached that conclusion all by myself, that I discovered these “authorities” of which you speak. And they merely reinforced the conclusions I had already reached on my own.

          Claims about topics we CAN NOT KNOW FOR SURE, should almost always be disbelieved. Disbelief is the logical default, in the absence of supporting evidence.

          That’s not religious thinking.

          That’s just simple logic.

        • David N

          My only claim is that I have no belief in gods. I’m pretty sure I am uniquely qualified to make claims about my own beliefs, or lack thereof.

          Perhaps you misunderstand what atheism is, believing it to be a positive claim that there are *no* gods? While some atheists are also anti-theists, atheism is simply a lack of a belief. I do not accept the “dogma” of atheist authorities, I simply reject the dogma of theists.

    • That Man

      Where did you read that she was forming an organization? It was an attempt to create an extra-curricular group of like-minded peers, and those are allowed and abundant at public schools, religious and other.

    • Jont_Musiteur

      Atheism isn’t a religion. Believing on god(s) isn’t a religion either, there are plenty of people that believe in some kind of higher power but don’t belong to a religion.

      It’s ironic that religious people try to denigrate atheism by calling it a religion…

    • anon

      Say Christianity is channel 9 on your television and Buddhism is channel 10. Atheism is as much as a religion as a closed TV is a TV channel.

    • Elwood72

      This confusion is why I don’t go around referring to myself as an “atheist.” It provokes largely meaningless debates like this one. Religions make claims about unproven, likely unprovable things and then asks people to believe them. With no evidence to back them up, and dozens of competing claims and “revelations,” it seems pretty obvious to me that these are all systems that were made up by people, written down by people, passed on by people – people who don’t have any real way of knowing that they are true. So I don’t believe any religions can possibly be true. How could they be? How could something that people imagined, without evidence, end up being exactly true? It’s like the proverbial monkeys typing randomly and ending up with Hamlet. This is non-belief. I am not a believer. It is not a religion. Notice this doesn’t rely on my having “faith” that there are no supernatural beings. All I can say is, I am aware of no evidence that cannot be explained without positing the existence of supernatural beings. Occam’s razor does the rest for me.

    • shannon

      In case you didn’t notice. She wasn’t trying to introduce and atheist group. The word was secular. You do not have to be an atheist to be secular. The point of a secular group is to prevent groups with particular beliefs pushing those beliefs on others. Ohh and on the subject of atheism, while Technically it is classed as a religion, your definition is not correct. it may say in some dictionaries that the definition is an assertion that there is not god, but to the vast majority of atheists see the definition as simply lacking a belief due to lack of evidence. and since the vast majority of people who identify as atheist accept that definition that is what it means. You can argue semantics as much as you like but in the end thats not going to make people decide that there is no god in the definite just because of that.

    • Jim Weatherby

      Incorrect John. On a number of levels.

      Public schools may indeed host religious groups. After hours, with faculty advisors, provided all such groups are provided equal access. Check out the SCOUTS. It’s pretty cool.

      Secular groups such as the Secular Student Alliance, are not “atheist” per se.

      Atheist groups are not religious, because atheism is not a religion, it is the lack of religion. Literally. that’s what it means.

      Atheism is a religion like off is a tv channel, bald is a hair color, not collecting stamps is a hobby, or not skiing is a sport.

      I am an avid not skier. I plan to spend the entire weekend not skiing.

      Here’s a quarter.

      Go buy a clue…

  • Vincent Granville

    The idea of a god, and only one god who architected and control the whole universe, a male god, who is always right and cares very much about human beings, is just as ridiculous as Santa Claus.

    • terfull

      The idea of you being right is more ridiculous than monkeys flying out of a flea’s butt.

      • Karl Moretz

        And I am sure that an omniscient, omnipotent, ineffable deity could totally make that happen.

        • terfull

          Indeed.

        • john

          I’d pay to see it. Lol

          • Karl Moretz

            Yeah, I’d give a fiver to witness the event…talk about immaculate conception.

      • Michael James McClendon

        Well what a robust and scientific grounded statement of fact that was… Flying-monkey-butt-fleas… lol

        • Michael James McClendon

          I mean Flea-butt-flying-monkies :-)

          • Scott Powell

            Don’t you mean flying flea monkey butts?

          • Michael James McClendon

            No flying flea butt monkeys.

          • Jont_Musiteur

            I think he meant flies fleeing from buttkey monks. Happens mostly on Tuesdays, though sometimes on Wednesdays in the monsoon.

            True story.

    • john

      How is it less ridiculous that the entire universe didn’t exist, then busting out of a singularity the entire universe was formed? Sounds to me like “there was nothing, then god said let there be light and all was good.” it’s cimantics. The big bang is the same story, the big bang just calls it the big bang and the bible calls it god.

      My point being: the universe is a ridiculous place with many ridiculous things. Instead if closing your mind to the incredible multitudes of possibilities, accept that you cannot know.

      • WirlWind

        It’s not a closed mind, it’s a sceptical mind.

        It’s the same as asking why you don’t believe and worship the giant space leprechaun at the centre of the galaxy. If you say “show me the evidence”, then you’ve just argued against your own religion.

        If you believe it blindly without evidence, then you may have a mental condition.

      • David N

        “I don’t know” is always an acceptable alternative to “I believe without evidence.” It is through the expression of our ignorance that we find a drive to discover.

  • NM2000

    Ahhh, the love thy neighbor attitude of some christians…

  • Mark Gardner

    Nobody does hate, intolerance and retribution with the same vigor and vitriol as the “Love Thy Brother” Christians.
    If given the choice between living in their heaven and oblivion, give me oblivion.

    • terfull

      That is not one of the 2 choices.

  • Anam Paiseanta

    Always amusing how atheists dogmatically defend information from their authorities on the subject because there is no scientific evidence for their claims. Yet they worship their “priests” and defend the gospel claims of a godless universe even though they could not possibly know that. Also amusing how they will be compelled to defend their religion by responding to my post here to disqualify the fact that they are engaged in religious thinking. They are the same as theists. Read their arrogant comments below about what they “know”.

    • AllSeasonRadial

      I’m sorry. Can you please point to anywhere in the topical article that “atheists” or anyone besides religious people acted in a threatening and demeaning manner? And exactly what does it say about you that you defend them with your attack?

      • Seanobi

        Save your breath, his post is just a bunch of rhetoric and logical fallacies. Really, it’s all they have to work with, so trying to reason them in the right direction is a waste of effort. Focus on spreading enlightenment to people willing to listen.

    • Corey Firepony

      Er….what?

      On the whole, atheism is skepticism. So…why would we worship anything? Moreover, we bask in scientific understanding because it’s what allows us to explore and learn. Science does not dimiss god(s) as impossible, just not probable based on the evidence. Especially since it is something that cannot be tested, observed, falsified, and duplicated. There is no gospel of atheism.

      Also- unless you are pantheistic, you are almost just as much atheist as I am…because you dismiss all the other god(s) skeptically just as we do, save for the system of belief you have.

      • pok

        If one believes in the existence of God due to the inability to disprove, then one also has to believe in the invisible people unicorn flying above your head. If one doesn’t believe in God due to lack of evidence, then one does not believe in delusional ideas such as deities and invisible people unicorns.

    • Dave Layzell

      Always amusing how theists have to resort to calling atheism a religion because they don’t understand it’s a single opinion on a single topic. But hey, at least we’re not constantly killing each other over which god we don’t believe in, and which bits of the “holy” book we don’t agree on, that is the domain of the religious. See catholics vs protestants.

      • bobvedari

        Since atheism is on the same subject as theism or polytheism it is of the same cloth as both. I prefer the word cosmology. All three deal with the “origins” question. All three answer it differently. My question to atheists and to theists alike is why do you freaking care?In the words of the most amazing philosopher of all time, Hillary Clinton (snort), “What difference does it make?” What difference can it possibly make to you as to what I or anyone else believe? The problem isn’t the belief; the problem is the intolerance; and from what I’ve seen the true believers of atheism, theism and whatever else – they are the most intolerant of people. Give me a casual believer over a true believer (of atheism, monotheism, polytheism, Obamaism, or any other ism). My problem isn’t with your belief; my problem is with the individual who has a permanent wedgie where his or her brain and heart ought to be.

        • shannon

          I think you need to understand what you are on about before you comment. ‘true believers of atheism’? Atheism is simply the rejection of claims made by theist’s. Yes there are a very small amount of atheists who state that they know there is no god (Gnostic atheists) but the vast majority of atheists are agnostic atheists as am i. And furthermore cosmology has nothing to do with either. I as most other atheist’s are, am not intolerent of religion and other peoples beliefs. we actually respect the rights of others to believe whatever they want. We are however intolerent of people trying to force rules, laws and ideologies based on said beliefs on others. We may be very vocal about it but what we say is simply believe what you want. live your lives however you want, but don’t try to make us or anyone else who doesn’t agree with you live the same way. In a nutshell we are saying leave us the hell alone.

          • bobvedari

            I’ve never heard the term “agnostic atheist.” I’m an agnostic. That means that I stop with the question: Is there or is there not a God, with my “answer” being “I don’t know. I have ZERO EVIDENCE one way or another.” An atheist makes the affirmative statement: there is no God. He or she doesn’t simply “reject” the premise of a God in a vacuum. Claims like that are disingenuous at best and very likely self-delusional. But again my problem isn’t with what someone believes. My problem is with the people who have their panties in a bunch and have a burning need to make sure that theists rue the day they were born. Or on the other side, with the bible thumpers who make irritants of themselves in the name of “God’s love.” (And of course, let’s not forget the most abysmal of creatures: the Islamic extremist who, worse than an an abortion clinic bomber, “kills the infidel” because he has sh*t for brains and wouldn’t know how to be civilized if him getting his 73 Virginians depended on it.

        • Jont_Musiteur

          Nitpicking here, but I don’t think it has as much to do with strength of opinion as it does with the urge to defend that opinion.

          Some of the most aggressive and hostile debaters could be dealing with doubt-related issues and inner conflict… the way ex-smokers are the greatest anti-smokers, homophobes often turn out to be secretly homosexual etc.

          Course some are just opinionated asshats like me.

        • jessanders

          Atheism, in the strictest sense, has NOTHING to do with origins. It doesn’t care about the origin, or about belief.

          Atheism is simply not-theism. It is specifically NOT religion. It says religion has not grounding, and is therefore not worth the time to believe. It doesn’t say religion is WRONG, it doesn’t care if religion is right or wrong, really. It simply says there is no evidence for religion, so there’s no reason to believe it.

          For instance. I could sit here and tell you that the winning powerball in Saturdays drawing will be 30. I might even be right (given the odds of predicting future events, I’d say it has a VERY high likelihood of being right in 1 out of 35). But, will you give my claim ANY credence what-so-ever? I have no evidence to support my claim, I’m simply making a claim.

          So, you won’t necessarily say I’m wrong. I probably am wrong, but you can’t prove that I’m wrong until it happens (I can’t prove religious people are wrong until death), but you’ll dismiss my claim outright because I have no evidence. Does that mean that you BELIEVE that the powerball will be a different number than 30? You shouldn’t, because it’s just as likely to be 30 as any other number available.

          So, as an atheist, I don’t say religious people are wrong. That’s giving credit where credit isn’t due. I simply dismiss their claims outright and don’t spend much time thinking about what happens when we die. I can’t control it, I can’t predict it, and everyone has to face it eventually. In death we’re all equal, so why should I worry?

          • bobvedari

            Then you are not the atheist I am talking about. I’m talking to the atheist who makes a point of irritating theists because of some idiot anger they’ve got pent up. I’m talking to the theist who says “My belief system is right; yours is not only wrong, but you are a fool for believing it and I’m going to protect society from the likes of you by poking you in the eyes every chance I get.” If you aren’t that kind of atheist, I’m not talking about you.

        • NM2000

          Because theists infuse their religious beliefs into my civil and secular law?

          “What difference does it make?”
          How about the difference to send my kid to a school where science is taught in a science class versus one where non-empirical creationism is taught in science class?
          How about the difference where I can buy a car or beer on a Sunday–a product that is legal six other days of the week–as opposed to a bunch of theists voting into secular law that MY buying a car on Sunday is a violation of THEIR notion of the Sabbath?
          How about the difference between civil allowance of gay marriage versus pushed for Constitutional Amendments to fundamentally deny such rights to a class of people based not on social, civil, or legal reasoning, but SOLELY on religious belief?

          If people believed what they wanted and kept it to themselves and didn’t try to make others live by their particular bronze age mythos, then it might not matter. But the fact is, people use their religious beliefs to affect the lives, rights, liberty, and property of those who do not share those beliefs through the force of law.

          If you don’t know “what difference it makes” in society what people do or don’t believe, then you’re either a total moron or just not paying attention to the point of cluelessness.

          • bobvedari

            Apparently you didn’t read my post. I agree with you that the intolerant theist is problematic to say the least. But so to is the intolerant atheist. Give me someone who cuts others a lot of slack over those who insist on their prickly versions of reality and then I don’t have to worry about sabbaths or idiots putting up derisive commentaries to offend people who happen to believe in something I don’t. How hard is that?

      • bobvedari

        Not that I give a rip about your or anyone else’s belief in God or unicorns or flying spaghetti monsters or a pine cone that looks like Baker Joe. But historically, atheists have not been as pure as the driven snow. Stalin, Mao – they were not really big believers in a deity and they did nasty stuff. People are people. Some believe in some things; others believe in other things. And across this spectrum, you’ve got people who are friendly and others who are like porcupines and skunks and who most people simply despise because they’re no fun to be with. My problem isn’t with the atheist or the theist per se. My problem is with the people who are busybodies and get into other people’s business as if they have any better claim on how people should socialize in friendly ways. I’m guessing I make zero sense to most people, but if I make sense to even one who gives it some thought, then this little writing will have been worth it.

    • msbuch72

      Why are you so judgmental?

    • Wuvixx

      Wait, so what you are saying is that Theists have scientific evidence for their claims? Get your facts right. I’m an agnostic atheist myself, and I tell you what… We have enough scientific evidences to support our perspectives of faith. The point is easy to make, if Science can’t disprove nor prove the existence of God, then who has the advantage now? Of course Atheists since there is no reason to believe in God if you can’t prove or disprove him. If God wanted people to believe in him, God would have made even a slight evidence for its existence if that’s a world test as Theists claim.

    • Elwood72

      You obviously don’t understand what science is and how it works. Obviously science cannot prove that the universe is godless. What it can do, however, is prove that many specific claims made by those who insist that the Bible is a factually accurate history book are wrong, and cast serious doubt on others. An important part of the scientific method is the attempt to prove theories false – and young-earth creationism can be considered well and truly disproved. This does not mean we know for certain every detail of the history of the universe. Of course we don’t. That’s why we continue to do science. The key difference is, when intellectually honest people receive evidence that contradicts their previous conclusions, they realize their conclusions need to change.

    • Noone of Consequence

      What’s really amusing is that religious folk seem to understand that
      faith and religion are actually embarrassing and negative things. They
      try to accuse atheism of being a religion, Darwin and Newton etc of
      being gods, Dawkins and Hitchens et al of being popes or priests. They
      say that belief based on sound evidence and trust in methodology and
      institutions built on a solid track record of being proven right is the same as faith.
      I wonder, if faith, priests, gods and religion are SO bad (I agree with
      you, they are!) that accusing atheism of being these things is an
      insult, then why aren’t you people atheists yourselves? Why not just
      drop the silly charade if you understand how ridiculously stupid your
      own belief system is?
      At the same time they try to dress up religion as if it were science, calling Creationism “Intelligent Design,” trying to assert that belief in fairy tales is somehow rational, logical, scientific, or evidence-based. Of course this is beyond silly, but again, if you understand that the scientific method, reason, evidence and logic are all good things, why PRETEND to embrace them while ACTUALLY clinging to the thing that is the antithesis of all these things: religion? It just makes you seem confused and (more)
      hypocritical. Why not actually embrace those things that you recognize as positive, and reject religion? Come on in, the water’s fine!

      Atheism is not a religion. For those of you out there that want to insult atheists, I’d suggest you stop trying to assert that it is, you just make yourselves look like idiots. Nobody believes you except for other insecure religious types. What you are actually doing is strengthening the argument that religion is silly and embarrassing because you are are trying to use words associated with religion as a put-down.

      • terfull

        Yet you blindly follow.

        • Noone of Consequence

          I’m not blindly following anything. I actually have facts and
          information from trusted and vetted sources that have been
          independently verified thousands of times over. I was able to change my
          beliefs based on new evidence. But thanks very much for your input, you
          fucking idiot asshat. You are such an insecure and pathetic human being
          that when your retarded fairy tale belief system is threatened, you
          resort to trying to insult the physical beauty of a 15 year old girl.
          You are the lowest of the low.

          • terfull

            The Bible is proved repeatedly and constantly.

          • Noone of Consequence

            The Bible has been proven to be false repeatedly and consistently.*

            Fixed that for you, dumbass.

          • terfull

            For example?

    • moose

      Always amusing how a theist can read a story about a 15-year-old girl being bullied and threatened because she wants to start a club…and respond with a childish diatribe about atheism. Way to change the subject. How about commenting on the actual story? Or are we to assume you support the attacks on this girl?

    • Jim Weatherby

      Anam… atheists make no claims. We simply reject the claims of the Bible, and of religions. We don’t need scientific evidence, because we have no burden of proof. The burden of proof is squarely and solely upon YOU! Yet you persist in your delusional beliefs about this magic man in the sky, without any scientific evidence to support said beliefs.

      Now SCIENCE on the other hand, is a completely different issue from atheism. Scientifically, we have sound evidence for the Big Bang, and for evolution. Neither the Big Bang, nor evolution, disprove the existence of god, nor have I ever hear any atheist or scientist worth his salt claim otherwise. What existed before the Big Bang? I don’t know, and neither do you. What caused the Big Bang? I don’t know, and neither do you. How did life originate? I don’t know, and neither do you (although personally I favor the hypothesis of abiogenesis.) What caused evolution. I don’t know, and neither do you. (But evolution is a theory, not a hypothesis; you do know the difference, yes?)

      The difference between us, dear, is that I don’t accept an ad hoc story made up by ignorant, superstitious, nomadic, Middle Eastern dwelling goat herders who barely knew to keep their feces and urine out of their food and water, and have been dead for 2000 years.

      While you, apparently, do….

      good luck with that…

      • Kelly Merrill

        Atheism is simply the belief in no god. Science can’t empirically prove or disprove, so why would a scientist concern themselves with this “ism,” aside from disproving many events in the bible or other religious claims, which they have. Arguing atheism is a distraction from science I believe, if you need an “ism” agnosticism is perhaps the most logical. I find it disgusting to harass someone who wants to start an Atheist Club though.

      • NM2000

        To be fair, some atheists most certainly DO make a claim.

        I’m not one of them, myself, though. I merely reject the divine claims of others until such time as they can provide empirical evidence in support of those claims. But I do not substitute for them a claim of my own as so many theist really, really want to assume I do.

      • Robin Hager

        Jim…I could hug you! Well said! Sure is difficult being atheist here in the Bible Belt, and yes the story is true about this young lady. I am from NC and it is a fact. We have pretty much learned to keep quiet about our disbelief, because we don’t want our businesses burned, our homes and our families attacked and our pets killed. Gotta watch out for those good Christians.

        • terfull

          You lie! You are a regionalist.

    • D. Kiiskila

      Atheism isn’t a religion. Get it right.

    • NM2000

      The mere fact you have to put it in quotes to imply a meaning that simply does not apply is evidence that atheism has no priests.

    • Anya

      A belief is something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction. Key word, OPINION

      Yeah, they can’t possibly be sure that there is no god, but you can’t be sure that there is one. The point is that there is more proof that disproves God than there is that proves his existence. Get it?
      I don’t even know what you’re blabbing on about when you say Atheists are the same as theists when the prefix ‘A’ means ‘against’

    • Thomas King

      And you think the worst thing you can say about atheists is that we are like you? Ha ha ha ha ha. Read Matthew 8:28-34.

    • ScaredAmoeba

      The burden of proof always lies with the claimant. ‘Atheists’ includes a wide spectrum of non-belief. This would include sceptics to agnostics. There is no burden of proof on atheists to disprove the existence of any god. The burden of proof lies with THEISTS to PROVE the existence of the supernatural and it is insufficient to prove that a god or gods exist, they must PROVE the existence OF THEIR OWN PARTICULAR GOD.
      Anam Paiseanta clearly doesn’t understand that his / her claim is false and should be rephrased: “Always amusing how THEISTS dogmatically defend information from their authorities on the subject because there is no scientific evidence for their claims.” – That is correct. There is no DOGMA in atheism, it exists only in religion. There is no scientific evidence for religion.

      • terfull

        This girl supplied NO proof to her claims of being bullied.

  • bobvedari

    May I ask a question: why do you care what I or anyone else believes about anything involving a deity. If I believe that God is Jehovah or a little piece of putty I found under a rock one day, why do you care? Some people have said because without a belief in God you have immorality. Oh really. So a “Christian” threatens others with violence is an example of morality? I’ve asked it this way: If you suddenly learned that the TRUTH was the exact opposite of what you believe (if you’re a theist – that there is no God; if you’re an atheist that there is one or more), will you tomorrow go out and start murdering people? Will you go and steal from them; rape them; knock over their garbage cans? Or will you still show up at your bowling league and complain about whatever you complained about the week before? I’ve yet to meet someone who seriously responds that he or she would start acting “immorally.” So again – why do you care what I or anyone else believe?

    • Jont_Musiteur

      I’d suddenly realize that my bowling club is actually a pit of drunken debauchery, and go there twice a week instead of once. With a hidden cam for, uh, documentation purposes, yes, that’s it.

      No seriously, that was an excellent post.

  • mamiel

    “It does me no injury if my neighbor believes in 20 gods or no god. It neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket”- Thomas Jefferson.

    • terfull

      One of the few Founding Fathers who was not Christian.

      • chyrd

        You forget Adams, Paine, Washington, and Franklin.

        • terfull

          Only Franklin falls into that.

          • chyrd

            Washington and Adams were at best deists… Paine was an atheist… not Christians. I find it difficult to believe you’ve ever opened a history book. You make outrages claims that so easily shit down with a Google search. Read Thomas Paine’s the age of reason.

            If you care to keep yourself willfully ignorant I suggest you stop debating.

          • Jim Weatherby

            actually Paine was a Deist, but otherwise I agree 100% Richard! Well said!

          • terfull

            Victim of public school, eh?

          • chyrd

            Do you think that they talk about the religious beliefs of these founding fathers in public school? One merely needs to read the words of these men in order to determine their mindsets. Again. Remain willfully ignorant if you wish, but don’t try to debate the facts of which you are obviously ignorant.

          • terfull

            Who founded the American education system? Christians. Who ruined it? Atheists.

          • chyrd

            Says the guy educated either at home or some Christian presuppositional school. Seriously… go crack a book.

          • terfull

            Does it hurt to be your kind of stupid? My last graduate work was in cultural geography at Arizona State.

          • mamiel

            “It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.”
            ― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

          • mamiel

            “I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

            All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”
            ― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

      • Thomas King

        Are you high? Most of the founding fathers explicitly denounced organized religion, deist at best, and were in no way Christian. Saying it over and over does not make it so. Have you even open your history books?

        • terfull

          Oh, honey.

          It was commonly said during the War that in America there
          was “no king but

          King Jesus.”

          Of the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention, at
          least 51 belonged to orthodox Christian churches and expressed clear Christian convictions.
          These include 28 Anglicans, 8 Presbyterians, 7 Congregationalists, 2 Dutch
          Reformed, 2 Lutherans, 2 Methodists, and 2 Roman Catholics.

          The Bible accounts for fully 34% of all of the writings of
          leading American political thinkers from 1760-1805. In addition, the human
          authors they quoted were overwhelmingly Christian, including in order of
          frequency Baron Montesquieu (Roman Catholic), Sir William Blackstone
          (Anglican), and John Locke (essentially Protestant).

          The Continental Congress adopted as the official song of the
          American Revolution, not “Yankee Doodle,” but “Chester,” which begins: Let tyrants Shake their Iron rod, And slav’ry
          Clank her galling Chains, We fear them not we trust in God, New England’s God
          for ever reigns.

          • Farmer Allis

            and yet the chose to create a secular nation with a constitution that intentionally omits any religious language or reference to a creator. They were certainly more enlightened than any of today’s “Christian” politicians.

          • terfull

            “Intended meaning.” People were just expected to follow Christ’s teachings. I’m sure they couldn’t imagine today’s idiots.

          • Farmer Allis

            what a load of revisionist bullshit!! Do you honestly expect anyone with any working knowledge of the founding fathers to believe that Thomas Jefferson would leave something up to “intended meaning”???? Do you know how carefully these men chose their words???? The founders rejected attempts to put “god” into the constitution. You can not rewrite history no matter how hard you try.

  • terfull

    “School officials say [that they] have investigated and have found no evidence of any bullying or harassment to any student at Pisgah High.”

    • terfull

      She is a “pretty little liar.”

      • Jim Weatherby

        course… she must be the liar… couldn’t possibly that the all christian staff in the all christian school in the all christian community are simply ignoring what is right in front of their face…

        Couldn’t possibly be….

        • terfull

          You finally said something logical!

    • Farmer Allis

      Could you please provide a source link for that quote?

    • cry moar faggot

      Same way that they never found evidence of Sandusky abusing the boys he was coaching until after Paterno retired, eh? Good to know we still have intelligent people around who know that schools are out to defend our students and not their reputations first.

    • Anya

      Yeah right. The school didn’t even want this group to be in the first place. Don’t you feel that there is a slight chance that maayyyybe, they might be stretching the truth a little to make it seem like it was Kalei’s decision and fault that the club didn’t work?

    • Lautaro

      “Now, if ever there could be a more damning reflection upon the
      credibility of a party than their assertion that zero bullying or
      harassment to “any” student at their high school occurred then I don’t
      know what biscuits and gravy are.”

  • Jim Weatherby

    “The problem, however, is that the teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. You are, of course, free to interpret the Bible differently – though isn’t it amazing that you have succeeded in discerning the true teachings of Christianity, while the most influential thinkers in the history of your faith failed?” (Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation)

    • terfull

      The Bible does not contradict itself anywhere.

  • D. Kiiskila

    This is a prime example why we must eradicate the idea virus known as religion. It is a lie, a cancer on humanity, and it promotes hate, suffering, and death.

    • Mildly Concerned

      Its no lie, because it was never real in the first place. It always been a fairy tail.

    • guest

      But atheism doesn’t guide your decisions.

  • D. Kiiskila

    Atheism is not a religion, folks… get it right.

    • terfull

      Is it not a guiding force for your moral choices?

      • WirlWind

        Not at all.

        As many atheists as there are, there are as many different moralities.

        One doesn’t need an old book that talks about selling slaves and daughters to get morality. That mostly comes from society and discourse.

        Personally, I got my morality from a church group, but over time, I have changed that based on personal experience. But generally, I go by the golden rule first and foremost because it makes sense.

        Humans are capable of empathy and kindness without an old book scaring them into it.

      • Lin Group

        Atheists don’t believe in a god, that’s it. Morality doesn’t come from god and has nothing to do with atheism, so no it’s not a guiding force for moral views.

        • terfull

          So you just fiddle around blindly? That explains so much.

          • omgshrimpz .

            Obviously terfull is morally retarded and needs something to tell him morals.

          • terfull

            Attacks on the mentally challenged. You do need moral guidance.

          • Lin Group

            Morality isn’t hard to understand and you certainly don’t need a god to provide morality when we are more then capable of coming up with it ourselves.

          • Hiram Belt

            Since there is no God, we did come up with it ourselves. Bravo!

          • terfull

            So in my made-up morality, for example, you should be murdered. What’s wrong with that if there are no external guiding truths?

          • Nell Webbish

            False dichotomy.

      • Lautaro

        As it was pointed out not at all. But I want to add that even if it was a guiding force of moral choices it would still not be a religion.

        The phylosophical view of nihilism for example is a guiding force of moral choices and it is not a religion. The ideology of nazism is a guiding force of moral choices and is not a religion. The hippie movement is arguably a guiding force of moral choices and is not a religion.

        • terfull

          They are also religions with devoted followers.

      • ScaredAmoeba

        terfull,
        The Bible “guiding force for your moral choices?”
        Let me see, does the Bible approve:
        Slavery? Yes (slavery is codified).
        Child-sacrifice? Yes!
        Child-rape? Yes!
        Sexual slavery? Yes!
        Gang-rape? Yes!
        Mass-murder? Yes!
        Misogyny? Yes!
        Racism? Yes!
        Incest? Yes!
        Bigotry? Yes!
        What’s not to like?

        Homosexuality? No!
        The Biblical god is morally bankrupt.

        • terfull

          Oh, how pathetic.

          • greg

            agreed.

          • ScaredAmoeba

            “Oh, how pathetic.” The response of a hypocrite with no argument, save for a moral vacuum.

            For example:
            Child-rape? Yes!
            Sexual slavery? Yes!
            Misogyny? Yes!
            Slavery? Yes (slavery is codified).
            See: Numbers 31:32-35
            32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

            What possible purpose would they want with 32,000 young virgin women?
            Remember, these virgins were young girls. Young girls who had seen their families savagely and bloodily butchered before them, mothers, fathers, brothers, uncles, aunts etc. Then due to your god’s so-called justice, they were abducted as sex-slaves.

            Are you suggesting these young virgin girls would have a choice, with testosterone fuelled murderers?

            What an hypocrite and apologist for slavery, sexual-slavery, violence against women and children.

            That moral high-ground never belonged to any religion that condones slavery, violence or deprives others of their human rights and it’s getting further away all the time.

          • terfull

            How did it end for any who followed those examples? Not well.

          • banCoD

            lol smh

          • terfull

            32000. Where is that even supposed to be?

        • Lautaro

          Child rape? where is that?

          • terfull

            Islam.

          • Lautaro

            We are talking about the bible terfull! lol. And since you feel like answering stuff, why you don’t answer my other comment about why atheism is not a guiding force for your moral choices – and that even if it was, it would still not be a religion.

            Anyways about child rape I found some “Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.” Numbers 31:7-18

          • terfull

            What is the definition of “young girls” in that context at that period of history? Could it be similar to these “single parents” running around on TEEN MOM?

      • D. Kiiskila

        No, it’s not, because it is not a religion. What guides my moral choices is the simple exercise of my ability to know right from wrong. I don’t need an imaginary man in the sky to know the difference. Stop trying to bait people, it’s not working, and it’s rude. To use your religion’s lovely catchphrase: What would Jesus Do? He sure as hell wouldn’t be an internet troll.

        • terfull

          So you are lost in a miasma of internal compass that ebbs and flows depending on the individual’s feelings. Sad.

          • D. Kiiskila

            So you are lost in an insane idea that a mythical man in the sky is telling you it’s bad to masturbate and have long hair, and to kill others that don’t believe in him. Sad.

    • James Duggan

      Why do they have meetings?

      • Lin Group

        AA, book clubs and neighborhood watch are not religions, why do they have meetings? Does one have to be a religion to gather together to discuss?

      • Nell Webbish

        HOLY GARTER STITCH!!! My knitting group is a RELIGION!

      • Hiram Belt

        That was a rather dumb statement, lol

      • terfull

        They need to constantly reaffirm themselves.

  • Jim Weatherby

    “The Bible is not a moral guide.

    “Any man who follows faithfully all its teachings is an enemy of society and will probably end his days in a prison or an asylum.” (Col. Robert Green Ingersoll)

    • Jont_Musiteur

      Thanks, I was wondering who said that.

  • cry moar faggot

    Good Christians, lol, there’s an oxymoron if I’ve ever seen one.

  • Hahaha

    You mad bro?

  • Peter White

    NOW we can all see how Christianity has become the dominant religion in so many countries; by the use of force, intimidation, and terrorism.

    Radical Islamists are not just making up their tactics as they go; they are following the well-worn path beaten (and I MEAN beaten) out by Christianity for the last 1500 years.

    These religions are toxic poisons and we need a cure.

    • kajar9

      Islam is just lagging behind christianity. They are currently in their “Dark ages” so to speak. While Christians seem to forget easily their not so pure past.

      Because nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition.

  • Zinc

    Extremist Christian Philosophy– “Other peoples rights infringe on my rights!”

    Reminds me of the first year we had a Pagan festival near my home town, ran into about 6 pamphlet wielding Christians trying to explain why my faith was wrong and I should come to theirs. Nosy buggers can’t leave well enough alone.

  • terfull

    You atheists are horrible people. These hate-filled posts are all the proof anyone would ever need.

    • Lautaro

      I hope you are being ironic.

      • terfull

        I hope you are trying to be cutesy.

    • ScaredAmoeba

      terfull “You atheists are horrible people. These hate-filled posts are all the proof anyone would ever need.”

      It’s clear that what an honest person would have said was: ‘These Christians are horrible people. Their death-threats are all the proof anyone would ever need.’

      You are clearly an apologist for massed bullying and harassment of a young girl. That alone shows you are morally bankrupt.

      All down the ages, religious groups have a long history of denying rights to individuals having a different religion or no religion. Often depriving these groups or individuals rights to own property, to practice their
      religion or even their right to life.
      This is what religions and their followers have done, and it still happens today. Bully, harass, intimidate and kill. It’s just like in the Bible, except unlike the Bible, it’s for real.

      • terfull

        Those “death threats” are lies propagated by you people.

        • ScaredAmoeba

          “Those “death threats” are lies propagated by you people.”
          Proof required, or you’re a liar.

          • terfull

            Little missy NEVER provided any proof of her claims to the school.

          • banCoD

            Prove it..

          • terfull

            The school investigated and dismissed her silliness. There’s your proof. She’s made herself an even bigger laughingstock.

        • Tape Operator

          Bullshit.

          • terfull

            I’m glad you agree.

    • Josie Alison

      If that’s all the evidence you’ll need then I feel sorry for you. You say that atheists are horrible people. There are some atheists that would say Christians are horrible people. We’re all human, being christian doesn’t make you any better or any more moral of a person than being an atheist does. Well, mind you atheists don’t descriminate, we don’t hate on gays and those with different beliefs as us. Christians say that they hate the sin and not the sinner right? Well funny most of them dont act like they do. We atheists hate the religion and not the religious. It’s only when the religious get radical, like in the article above that such critism is needed and let’s face it, necessary.

      The abrahamic religions are very unhuministic, sorry if you can’t handle a little critism, we atheists have to put up with idiots assuming we worship the devil and eat babies and are apart of the evolution/atheism religion. We have every right to get mad when people make illogical statements like that.

      Your statement for instance, atheists are horrible. Well, we hate in others what we hate in ourselves 😉

      • terfull

        I began heeding you then you divulged into babble, so I have no idea of what point you intended.

        • Josie Alison

          Wow, your loss then

          • terfull

            Indeed. Bless your heart.

        • Tape Operator

          You’re not really blaming your own illiteracy on the writer, now, are you?

      • Lyrora

        I agree – everyone falls short. Truthfully, my best friend is bi-sexual, but I love her to pieces (well.. in a best friend kind of way). Whether I think other sexualities are right or wrong.. well, I don’t press it on her. Sometimes she asks me what I think, and I usually tell her that it isn’t my place to judge her. That I love her for who she is in her heart, and that her sexuality is between her and God (she is a Christian). I’ll tell her the truth if she asks for it, that I personally don’t support it. But I don’t put it down, either. Because again, it isn’t my place to judge. People would be a lot better off if instead of focusing on other people, they focused on perfecting themselves. I do my best and that’s all I can do.

        • Josie Alison

          Lol, I’m no christian but god bless you :) I understand. I have straight, gay, bisexual, as well as religious friends and family. Over here (Australia) people are generally accepting of those differences. Occasionally you’ll come across a religious homophobe or one who radically opposes atheism which is understandable, if I believed hell existed then I wouldn’t wish my worst enemy to such a place, but behaviour like that towards gays or people who hold different beliefs to you is just unnecessary. Anyway thats cool to know you and your friend are that accepting, like my boyfriend and I, he’s christian and I’m atheist, we seem to be doing just fine :)

          • Lyrora

            Aw (: Thanks lol. Yeah, there are many different people and many different relationships and many different colors of life. Based on my beliefs at least, I’ve come to the conclusion that what right would I have to judge it all when I didn’t even have a hand in creating it? It’s good that you and your boyfriend are accepting, it’s nice. Nice to know that while people like the ones described in this article do exist, the opposite kinds of people do exist, as well. And in the end, whether someone believes in God or not, their relationship with him is theirs and theirs alone. Random, but I’ve never been to Australia. I’d like to go someday, though – despite whatever differences in people there are, I’d like to see the Great Barrier Reef! ^^

          • Josie Alison

            Lol, well I’ve never been to the great barrier reef but if you ever get the chance to go then take it. It’s certainly on my bucket list of places to visit. If you do come to Australia one day then you must check out Sydney. Seriously Sydney will not disappoint, the beaches there are lovely, and it’s not as hot in Sydney as it is for the rest of the country.
            Lol, now I wish I was back in Sydney XP

          • Sunny

            Okay wow, just let me interject for a second, and not fora retort, but a thank you. I’ve been reading all the comments on the article (Not much to do on a Saturday. Ironic, right?) and all I can say to you Lyrora is thank you. I appreciate that you treat your religion for what it should be, and follow the morals it instills, rather than using it as a scapegoat to hate people who disagree with you. Honestly, there need to be more Christians, and people in general, like you around the world, and less like Terfull.

    • Nell Webbish

      (still yawning)

    • Tape Operator

      We learned it from dealing with Christians.

      • terfull

        Like you’ve ever “learned” anything! You’ve memorized some things from your hate groups.

        • banCoD

          Prove it.

          • terfull

            You’ve produced no original thoughts.

    • probablysomejerk

      I sat next to a very nice, very Christian man for a couple of hours on a plane ride once. We chatted the whole way, and he asked many questions, where I suppose my answers could be some judge of character. I didn’t know he was a church-man until near the end of the flight (because none of that matters to me – that’s not how I determine quality of character), and he didn’t know I was an atheist until the end. One of his final comments basically indicated that he was surprised that I was such a good person, even though I don’t follow god.

      But, please, do tell me more about how horrible I am. Specific examples would certainly be helpful.

      • Hiram Belt

        I just tell them that I can have morals without being scared of their invisable loving god who will torture you forever. k

    • Nell Webbish

      Translation: WAAAAAA! WAAAAAAA! WAAAAAAAA!! WAAAAAAA!

    • Hiram Belt

      Did you even read the article? The threats to a little high school girl are coming from horrible intolerant Christians. Why do you think we are writing about how bad you religious robots are?

  • Platypus on a tandem bike

    Yeah, it’s obviously the christian majority, that is being harrased and oppressed.
    Hahaha…

  • Josie Alison

    That’s absolutely disgusting. So much for the golden rule that most Christians swear to live by. It’s people like this that just gives the whole Christian community a bad rep, and makes it even easier for us atheists to hate on them. Honestly, groups like the KKK and the West Borrow Baptist Church need to step out of the dark ages. It’s 2014 we’ve come too far to fall back into those prejudice bigoted line of thinkings.

    These certain Christians are hypocrits. From what I’ve heard and read in the media the sort of behaviour that the religious folk in America displays is no better than how it is in the middle east. People need to grow up, this ain’t the Salem witch trials, these are atheists; we’re human beings who deserve to be treated as such, that goes for homosexuals as well.

    In the east they are still legally murdering and imprisoning gays and atheists, because their holy book tells them to and they believe it. You can cherry pick your religion as much as you want but when a religion causes this much fear, hate and human separation, well it isn’t worthy of being a religion.

    The abrahamic religions need to go, from what I’ve seen they’ve caused more hate than they have love. And throughout history, more death than anything else. It’s no better than Islam. The Muslims say it’s a religion a peace, I’ve yet to see peace. The same could be said about Christianity.

    I know there are good people, good honest people of the Abrahamic faiths, I know them I have close Christian relatives and friends who I know are good decent loving all around good people, and I know alot of that would be because of their religion, because they wholeheartedly believe in Jesus. But at the end of the day it’s good christian people like this that seem to be the minority. I honestly wish there were more people like this. Who if you believe in Jesus you’ll live your life thinking “what would Jesus do?” And actually follow through with that. Otherwise these religions can hit the road.

    It’s not your beliefs that make you a good person, it’s your behaviour. If you believe in doing good and treating others good then f@#king act like it.

    I’m just glad I’m an atheist in Australia and not in America.

    (Lol sorry for going on, got a bit riled up)

    • terfull

      “West Borrow.” Bess it. (p.s. That’s retard for “Bless your heart.”)

      • Josie Alison

        Yeah, you’re real funny. Truly you outta be a comedian

      • greg

        nice comeback

        • terfull

          Thanks.

          • greg

            that was sarcasm

          • terfull

            So was mine, honey. Didn’t realize my condescension would skip right over your little head.

      • ScaredAmoeba

        Westboro Baptists, spewing venom and hatred. How Christian of them.
        Loads on YouTube. View them and it tells everyone how religion poisons minds, including the minds of young children.

        • terfull

          They are not Christian. Christians speak out against them and protest them.

          • pattreid

            Really? when and where?

          • terfull

            Follow the news. It’s public knowledge.

          • Jont_Musiteur

            He’s right. The WBC are excellent contenders for the most hated family in America, and since most Americans are Christian, it’s likely that most Christians are as disgusted at them as anyone. The atheist cynical bastard in me would say it’s because they’re holding up a mirror to fundamentalist Christian “morality”, but to be honest I think that most people – Christian or not – revile the WBC for the simple reason that they’re horrible people.

          • Nell Webbish

            The vast majority of the WBC’s belief system is identical to a large percentage of Christian America. They are inflammatory, obnoxious and rude, yes and they are also Christian.

            Frankly, I think if they had left military funerals alone and kept themselves to protest at the funerals of gays and popular liberals, the percentage of outraged Christians would be a lot smaller.

          • Jont_Musiteur

            I remember the WBC before they became famous for picketing military funerals, they were hated then, or at best seen as the crazy people over there. Otoh, the position on Christianity was not nearly as polarized as it is now – the level of political pandering to extremist Christian positions has gone off the charts, especially among Republicans.

            I also don’t think that bad people (sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists) are that way because of religion, but they will look for places where they can easily use and manipulate. Religion plays a major part in American life, but it could also just as easily be a political party or special interest group, or even a volunteer organization – any self-protecting organization with a common goal and value dynamic is potentially ripe for the picking. Shared value sets (the “sacred” tenets of an organization, religious or secular) are easy blackmail material, as they act on the members’ sense of loyalty and threat of betrayal. That’s where the problem with Christianity lies.

            WBC is extreme. It’s a cult. Like any cult, the cult leader (Phelps) isn’t just the leader, he’s a stand-in for the object of adulation – he is beyond questioning or criticism for the cult, and the ideological basis he represents is more arbitrary.

            I completely agree that the funeral picketing pissed off conservatives, obviously widening their scope for being hated in ways they would not otherwise have achieved.

          • pattreid

            The atheist cynical bastard in me would think the same. Yes, that family is reviled, justifiably.

          • Nell Webbish

            Your posts are like example text from a Logical Fallacy information page.

      • pattreid

        The best you could do to refute this post was to mock the way “West Borrow” was written? How very “Christian love” of you.

        At least you do admit to speaking as a “retard”, another example of “Christian love”.

        Thanks for being living proof of why so many have turned against church and faith.

        • terfull

          You don’t know what that means.

          • pattreid

            Enlighten me.

          • terfull

            You wouldn’t listen.

          • pattreid

            “Listening” is one thing, obeying or accepting what I listen to is something else.

            So, basically, you’re saying you’ve got nothing.

      • Nell Webbish

        Translation: I can’t even begin to articulate a cogent response to your post so I’m going to call you a poopy head.

  • Lyrora

    When a Christian oppresses an athiest, it is essentially the same concept as times in history where Christians have been oppressed. Unfortunately, many people use Christianity as a mask to hide behind and point fingers, but that is not what comes of ACTUALLY following God. If you’re a true Christian, the chances are that you will realize you’re definitely not all that, so you shouldn’t go around pointing out what YOU think are flaws in other people. “Judge not, lest you be judged by the same stick.” People who claim to be Christian but act in the way described in this article give all Christians an unjustifiably awful name. But not all of us act that way, just like not all athiests act that way.

    • terfull

      There is NO proof it actually actually happened. This is a scam set up by Richard Dawkins’ group.

      • Lyrora

        Regardless of the authenticity of this article, I’ve seen this type of thing happen before. I’ve lived in the north and south, and in the north, I usually saw Christians being hated on a lot more, whereas in the south, I’ve seen athiests hated on a lot more. But Christians aren’t the only people doing this kind of thing, and the point is that you shouldn’t choose one religion and tear it down because of your own beliefs – that goes for both sides.

        • terfull

          Indeed.

        • pattreid

          Oh, you mean like Muslims should not be torn down?

          • pattreid

            Go tell that to the Christians, or for that matter, most Americans regardless of faith.

        • Nell Webbish

          What? Are you suggesting that this specific situation cannot be discussed because other situations occur?

          What makes you think that Christians are being specifically targeted?

      • Lyrora

        In the end, there is a huge difference between sharing the love of God and tearing other people down to build yourself up.

        • terfull

          Like you understand either.

          • Guest

            .?

          • Lyrora

            Sharing the love of God is so many wonderful things – it does NOT mean putting down other people. It means loving thy neighbor as your brother, it means forgiveness, it means peace, it means all of the things that this article is not. It doesn’t mean you go around beating it into people’s heads that they must believe in God, it means you demonstrate the love you ‘believe in,’ to other people.

          • Hiram Belt

            I wish you could get that through to 99% of all Christians.They are the must cliquish, judgmental, and hateful (if you disagree with their superstitions) group I know. They are the reason Christianity is shrinking, and the faster the better, actually tell them to keep up the bigot preaching, as it is helping rid us of the cancer of religions. Hallelujah!

          • AllSeasonRadial

            Just an observation: you draw further and further into yourself, away from others, and believe your gaze is fixed upon God when in fact all you see is your own navel.

          • Tape Operator

            Case in point, a personal attack coming from the supposed victim.

          • terfull

            I’m glad you admit that’s all she’s doing.

      • ScaredAmoeba

        “There is NO proof it actually actually happened. This is a scam set up by Richard Dawkins’ group.”
        Prove it.

      • Lin Group

        There’s NO proof the bible wasn’t written by crazy people. Both sides can play this game.

        • terfull

          Sure there is. It’s proven daily.

          • Hiram Belt

            So there is prof that the bible was written by crazy people? lol thank for confirming what non-brainwashed people already know.

      • Nell Webbish

        (yawn)

      • Tape Operator

        Doesn’t your fairy tale mandate that you not lie, hypocrite?

    • Josie Alison

      I’m atheist but I totally agree with ya

      • Lyrora

        (:

    • terfull

      It’s funny to see the liberals come out screaming “don’t judge” as they condemn someone of a different mindset. “Only God can judge,” and one day you’re going to get a big smack in the face from Him. Why do you think “love your neighbor” means endorse all bad behavior? Get over yourselves; most of you yelling don’t believe the Bible anyway. John 5:30: Jesus spoke, saying, “I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.”
      John 7:24 “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

      Revelation 2:2 “I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:”

      Revelation 2:2 “I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:”

      • John

        Why are you quoting a fictional book? That has no weight or bearing on the situation.

        • terfull

          Why are you breathing? Your life means nothing.

          • John

            You’re right, my individual life does mean nothing. The same can be said for all of humanity.

          • terfull

            Not of those who were created in the image of the Divine. Their lives mean something. You should probably just die already since it’s all for naught.

          • Merrick Genesis

            You’re doing a great job of making Christianity look good. Keep it up.

          • terfull

            Where did I claim to be Christian. You people are bigots anyway.

          • Merrick Genesis

            Where did I claim to be Christian?

          • Adam

            The bible claims all are created in the image of the divine. Saying someones life has no meaning goes against what your book teaches. Congrats on fulfilling the part of douchebag christian who doesn’t know his own holy book.

          • terfull

            Created that way; didn’t remain that way. Congrats on being an idiot and only reading part of the story.

          • Adam

            No where does it say people stopped being created in gods image. It says people fell into sin not that they stopped being in gods image. Sin is a bunch of goofy bullshit and so is the christian religion it really isnt worth debating.

      • Nell Webbish

        Am I the only one who finds it alternatively laughable and frightening that you are equating starting a club with evil? Because that’s what this article is about and that is what this girl was “judged” for … wanting to start a club.

        Or maybe we can stop idiotically pretending that harassment and calling young women “dumb c&^t b*&^h!” is the “judgement” being referred to in scripture.

        • terfull

          So you didn’t read the back story.

          • Nell Webbish

            So you don’t have a point.

      • Tape Operator

        What gives you the impression that atheists would give a remote fuck what it says in your fairy book?

        • terfull

          You’re obviously on here screaming about something.

          • ChristianDavidd

            “You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.” God (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

          • terfull

            Context of the world at the time of the writing?

          • Jont_Musiteur

            I completely agree, the Bible was written for the realities of 2,000+ years ago, but after 2 millennia it’s clearly obsolete.

            In 2,000 years time our descendents will probably be thinking we were a bunch of uncivilized superstitious savages. 2,000 years is a lot of human progress.

          • terfull

            Totally wrong. The Old Testament time was fulfilled. We are still in the New Testament age.

          • Jont_Musiteur

            I’ll grant you that there is a marked development in human progress between the OT and NT, but the Bible hasn’t been updated to in 2,000 years. There’s been the development of the nation state, rule of law, industrial revolution, enlightenment, capitalism, socialism, workers’ rights, women’s liberation, two horrific world wars, industrialized dictatorships, genocides, democracy, the space age and information revolution since then, all of which have fundamentally changed the world we live in but none of which you’ll find in the Bible, so the Bible clearly has no relevance and hasn’t had in centuries.

            But you essentially said that yourself before you backpedalled.

          • terfull

            Jesus’ teaching have not been fulfilled.

          • Jont_Musiteur

            That’s ok, most esoteric cult leaders have been wrong in their predictions, apocalyptic or otherwise. Although props to Jesus for not developing a suicide cult.

            Apart from the one about the sun going red giant, but we’ve actually seen that happen in other parts of the sky so it’s a reasonable prediction based on observation, and the nice thing about it is that there’s no blackmail attached. And we won’t even be around to see it – the earth will be an uninhabitable seething lump of molten rock long before the sun starts visibly expanding..

          • Hiram Belt

            Don’t hold your breath!

          • terfull

            Well, you’re fulfilling part of it just now.

          • Hiram Belt

            How is that? My actions have nothing to do with your delusions. I was advising you not to hold your breath waiting on men to float out of the sky. Or rather, please do.

          • terfull

            Jesus referenced scoffers.

          • Hiram Belt

            Well, you did get that right. I mock any religion that has the world being populated by incestuous relationships, twice. Adam and Eve’s and Moses’ children screwed each other like rabbits. Not worshiping that inbred crap for sure.

          • terfull

            Moses’ children? You don’t even have your stories right. Maybe your amoebas dropped some DNA in your particular lineage.

          • Hiram Belt

            My bad “Noah’s” children fornicated with each other. Just like Adam and Eve’s children must have had some good brother sister hot sex. Disgusting religion to say the least.

          • banCoD

            Correct. They are all just stories. Similar to stories of the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause.

          • terfull

            All of history is a story.

          • Adam

            Oh boy an old book in which a new religion was started was able to predict resistance to its ideas. Holy shit how could they have ever guessed people wouldve disagreed with their radical ideologies. Wow just wow. Seriously .wow

          • banCoD

            Yes, terfull, pleeeease hold your breath!

          • Hiram Belt

            “teachings”, sweetie.

          • banCoD

            The whole damn bible is obsolete. It’s just a bedtime story book.

          • D. Kiiskila

            I would argue that the real “progress” has only been happening the last 300 years. The 1700 years before that were held in nearly the same state due to religion. I would posit that if we hadn’t had that 1700 years of persecution of ideas different from the “Church”, that humanity might well have been to the stars by now.

          • Nell Webbish

            HAHAHAHA … a comment about context is pretty rich coming from someone that just quoted four different verses that had exactly zero to do with the point he was attempting to make.

          • Adam

            You realize context is a bullshit excuse most christians make. So slavery was alright back then because it was back then? Why not now? If your god was perfect and the so called holy book was supposed to be god given it wouldn’t need context it would always apply. The fact that its full of contradictions and laws that nobody thinks apply anymore proves how unbelievably stupid you have to be to believe in that stuff.

          • terfull

            Honey, you just keep trying; you may find some logic in there somewhere someday.

      • Nell Webbish

        Ahh yes, another Bible quoter that either doesn’t understand what he is quoting or is deliberately misrepresenting what he is quoting … ignorant or a liar.

        Pro Tip: none of the scripture you quoted is God giving you a right to judge others, especially not others who are not believers in your faith.

        You might want to spend some time thinking on this one which actually does tell Christians who they should and should not judge.

        1 Corinthians 5

        9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

        12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[b]

    • Nell Webbish

      That’s great Lyrora, but honestly it would be nice for once if all the “good” Christians that I keep being told are out there would for once stand up when they see something like this going on and speak out against the “bad” Christians.

      Because by your logic I either have to assume this school was full of nothing but “bad” Christians or that all the “good” Christians couldn’t be bothered to say something.

      • Jont_Musiteur

        To be fair. Lyrora has stood up for what’s right, and so far from my impression, more Christians here have come out condemning the bullying than defending it. At least one of the latter is a POE – could be a WBC-grade Christian fundamentalist or a troll, it’s impossible to tell the difference.

        It’s very easy for us as atheists to condemn what’s clearly bullying from the “other” side, not so easy when it’s people that ostensibly share your belief system or world view.

        • Nell Webbish

          1) I’m not talking about Christians making comments. I’m talking about the adult Christians in the community.

          2) The idea that it isn’t “easy” for a Christian to recognize bullying certainly calls into question the assertion that having a religion makes one more moral than not having a religion.

          • Jont_Musiteur

            1) I don’t see a difference. We can’t know what the commenters are doing in real life, but how Christians are commenting is the best indicator we have here and now.

            2) Agree, but that’s not the point I was trying to make. Most people would be more likely to defend someone that shares their own basic world view than someone that holds an opposing view. That’s human social instinct, and applies to a whole lot of things besides religion. Realizing that and owning it will be the first step in moving out of the “us” vs “them” deadlock, mainly focusing on what we have in common, and not what makes us different.

          • Nell Webbish

            But we can know what the Christians in that situation did. We can know whether or not a Christian teach said “Yes, I’ll sponsor this groups they should have the same right to a club as any one else”. We can know whether or not a local church makes a public statement that harassing atheist kids is wrong. We can know whether or not a community of Christians shows up to school board meetings to demand equal treatment. Those are the types of actions I am talking about and those are the types of actions I would expect to see if the “good” Christians that I am always told exist actually did exist in the huge numbers I am always being told about.

            By the way, thanks for the civil and intelligent exchange. :)

          • Jont_Musiteur

            Thank you for reading and responding to my rambliings :)

    • terfull

      She lied. School officials say have investigated and have found no
      evidence of any bullying or harassment to any student at Pisgah High.

      Read More at: http://wlos.com/shared/news/features/top-stories/stories/wlos_school-club-controversy-15319.shtml

    • D. Kiiskila

      We have a word for religious people who judge others as haters and bigots while they do the exact same thing: Hypocrites.

  • SDM

    It amazes me that the Christians in this school come down so hard on a kid trying to start a club for people with similar interests can turn right around and play the “PERSECUTION!” card with a straight face.

  • Thomas Pumphrey

    Michael you should be ashamed to quote Hemant and then follow it up with the mud slinging.

  • Alex Grant

    Look we don’t have to accept everyone’s beliefs systems but we do have respect that that is what they believe! It’s like this…. I go to subway and order the same sub like I do every time. one time a man comes in and orders a different sub then me, I find my self getting mad because he got a different sub then I did. ….. now tha sounds stupid right! because the sub he ordered has nothing to do with me! The same is with people beliefs systems and life choices! So can’t we all just love each other regardless if you are an atheist and I am christian!? Who cares who’s right? Live your life and I will live mine. We should not impose our beliefs on others. I feel so bad for this girl! She should not go through that! She is just trying to act on her belief freely! When I was in high school I tried to start a Christian club but I was not allowed. So I know how it feels so please can we just respect each other

    And Not all Christians are like the ones you have described in your writing. In almost every religion and belief system there are nut jobs. Sadly people only heat about the nut jobs in Christianity. We’re not perfect :( but don’t paint us based on some teenagers actions. She was probley a young christain and just wants to stand up but she did it in the wrong way.

    • Crimson

      I agree with your case, but you have to expect that some will latch on to the negative views of other sides like the kind of Christians who think that those who aren’t like them must want to sin and label them demon-spawn.

      I would expect most people to realise that not all Christians are as forceful like the people in this article were. Personally, I’m fine with religious belief as long as you don’t try to force yours on other people with fear or threats, but its when people do act like this that gives others the stereotypical view which is disgusting.

      Like in any ideology Atheism has people who think differently in some way, like those who want religion gone completely, others (like me) don’t care about other religions as long as they don’t try to push it onto others.

      I hope that one day we can all put these ideological differences aside and just focus on improving our knowledge and tackling the actual problems: war, famine, illness, etc.

      • Nell Webbish

        Atheism is not an ideology. There is no belief system attached to atheism.

        • terfull

          It is indeed the blind leading the blind.

          • banCoD

            lol. We need no “leader”. That’s the beauty of an open mind.

    • Jont_Musiteur

      I agree with you entirely. As to the “young christian” – I doubt it was just one, but more awareness and better dealing with the global phenomenon of cyberbullying would definitely be a good thing.

      This isn’t the first time I’ve said it here, but I wish there were more like you.

  • Nell Webbish

    I don’t disagree that they are extreme in their opinions about homosexuality. I’m saying the idea that their extremity makes them “not Christian” is flawed. They are Christian, decidedly so.

    And I’m not sure if you are saying the WBC is made up of psychopaths, but I think that is a rather unfounded allegation. Frankly, I think the fuss over the WBC is seriously overdone. They are a tiny group of less than 50 who are getting smaller every day. They are not the most vicious, the most dangerous or the most harmful Christian sect in the US. In fact, they have become almost complete impotent at even achieving their one claim to fame, being rude obnoxious protesters who upset people.

    • Jont_Musiteur

      Certainly they’re Christian, but that’s like saying pickpockets and murderers are criminal. The broad designation might apply, but the basis for comparison stops there.

      Members of the WBC (or any other cult) are not necessarily psychopaths, sociopaths or narcissists, but cult leaders usually are. People that join cults are mostly ordinary people that are vulnerable due to life circumstances – family disaster, loneliness living in a large city, boredom, people in that phase of life when you’re not quite sure where you want to go and what you want to do with your life – these are phases I think most people have gone through at some time, so most of us have been vulnerable to joining a cult at some point. It’s easy to think “They wouldn’t pull the wool over my eyes”, and under normal circumstances they wouldn’t. They have no appeal for socially integrated people with solid support structures, good work-life balance and a sense of direction.

      Finally, I agree that there is too much fuss over the WBC for the reasons you’ve mentioned. The danger from the church around the corner is greater, that the pastor has the makings of a cult leader – more in loosely affiliated charismatic fundamentalist denominations where the pastor has a free hand in running “his” church than in mainstream Lutheran or Catholic churches, where the parish priest or vicar has more of a background arbiter type of a function, and any given church will see its parish priests and vicars come and go.

      FD: I’ve only experienced Christian cults from the outside, I’ve never actually joined one (though at one point I was curious but backed out when I realized what was happening. Yes I was young, curious, in a new place, and vulnerable at the time, but apparently not enough to be sucked in). I now live in Central Europe, where Christianity doesn’t play a major role and atheism is the norm. Cults here tend to be political or corporate-financial (financial service reselling, door-to-door sales, MLM, ponzi schemes and the like).

      • Nell Webbish

        The only reason to point out they are Christians is in response to the No True Scotsman fallacy that so often gets tossed around, including in this exchange in the original post.

        That is fascinating about political or corporate-financial cults. As you noted, religious or at least spiritual (i.e., Heaven’s Gate) cults are what we seem to get in the US. I’m not familiar with the idea of a ponzi scheme cult, but as soon as I read that it made perfect sense.

  • banCoD

    So, you are accepting the hypocrite accusation, correct?

  • Altreg01

    Good old loving christians giving radical muslims a run for their money and one tool below defending them

  • Kavlrya Yenyur

    Christian fundamentalists sexualizing a 15yo girl? Not unlike… Islamists?

  • terfull

    The real name of the article should be: Unattractive girl lies about
    student calling her a name in order to stir mouthy atheists into attacks
    on Christians.