Why People Hate Evolution

Editor’s Note: Upon seeing the Grand Canyon for the first time, I wondered how anyone seeing it could possibly believe in creationism instead of evolution. There is nothing in information provided at the national parks that gives any credence to creationism. Instead, everything points to millions of years of evolution at work — in the water, the rocks and the ancient peoples. I looked at the happy hikers around me, wondering if any of them could possibly believe in creationism, and was tempted to ask, but didn’t. I was afraid their answers would ruin my vacation and ruin my opinion of them. It reminds me of a column in the New York Times I just read, in which the journalist, Frank Bruni, muses on his reluctance to find out if his friends and relatives are Trump supporters. He worries that such knowledge could ruin relationships. He’s right, but purposely not trying to influence people you care about could prove disastrous to the country. I’d say the same holds for evolution. We have a responsibility to set people straight and the following essay, first posted on Jim Mulholland’s blog, is a step in that direction. It is reprinted with his permission.

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By Jim Mulholland

evolution apes

According to a recent Pew poll, three out of every ten US adults continue to reject the theory of evolution.  This same poll found 65% of evangelical Christians believe God created humans in their present form approximately 10,000 years ago.  All of this despite polling that found 98% of scientists think evolution the best explanation of human origins.  As someone who was once an evangelical Christian, none of this surprises me.  What does surprise me is how often I see non-religious people arguing about evolution with religious folk.

The first mistake many make in arguing with religious people about evolution is in thinking the discussion is about facts – carbon dating, genetic mapping, and geological evidence.  For many religious folk, the issue is one of faith and not fact.  They have been taught to believe in a literal interpretation of the Biblical creation stories and to abandon such an interpretation would be an act of faithlessness.  For them, having 98% of the scientists supportive of evolution is irrelevant.  The Bible clearly says “The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God.” (I Cor. 3:19)  Rejecting evolution, despite all the evidence to the contrary, is a sign of their loyalty.

The second mistake many non-religious people make is in thinking religious people don’t understand evolution.  While creationists may claim they’re not related to a monkey, it isn’t the biology of evolution they find so disturbing.  They understand and often accept the basic principles of natural selection.  Most of them acknowledge micro-evolution as an explanation for the many types of dogs or the different kinds of plants.  What they dispute is the application of evolutionary principles to humanity.  Humans are special, chosen, elected and the children of God.  We are the crown of creation, created in the very image of God.  Even if evolution were true, we are the exception to the evolutionary rule.

This leads naturally to the third misunderstanding in most debates about evolution.  What is being debated is not geological history or biological process, but the meaning of life.  Is existence random or is there some vast cosmic plan?  Most religious people reject evolution – whether they acknowledge it or not – because of what it implies about the universe.  It argues for a universe where Earth and humanity are not special.  Our existence is the result of random variables and not divine desire.  The future is not in God’s hands.  The universe does not care if humanity survives and thrives.  It is this underlying assumption of evolution that inspires its passionate rejection by many religious people.  Such a universe frightens them and people often hate what they fear.

I am nearly certain that, if astronomers were to announce tomorrow that a comet was hurtling toward the earth, such a circumstance would lead to a massive revival of religious fervor across our planet.  Millions would flood churches, temples and mosques to plead for the intervention of the divine.  Many religious leaders would suggest the comet was a sign of divine displeasure, punishment for believing in things like evolution.  And, if the comet crashed into our planet and resulted in the eventual extinction of humanity, most of our last recordings would not acknowledge this extinction as proof of the randomness of the universe.  Many would insist even our extinction must have meaning.

This is why evolution is so threatening to many religious people. Evolution calls into question a central assertion of most religion – we are special, created and protected by the divine. Evolution pulls the curtain away and exposes the mechanisms that move the universe, mechanisms that are simple, random and often brutal. It is this brutal reality many resist.

Let’s be clear. Any honest appraisal of life suggests we aren’t special or protected.  The rain falls on the just and the unjust.  Disease strikes the young and old, the kind and the cruel.  Tsunamis kill indiscriminately.  Politics and economics rather than religious faithfulness determine human power and affluence.  Is it any wonder that those who would ignore all these daily reminders of the universe’s obvious apathy would also reject the most logical explanation for this evidence? Indeed, this unwillingness to accept the randomness of life shouldn’t surprise us.  Our resistance to this reality of life was an evolutionary development with considerable utility and persistence.

Accepting the randomness of life is an act of courage.  Until very recently, humans had little ability to alter their environment.  The world was a hostile place.  Humans were powerless.  The religious mindset evolved to counter the despair and discouragement of this self-awareness.  For generations, a belief in god brought considerable comfort in a world where life was so fragile.  It made sense as a belief system and as a response to the randomness of life.  Leaving behind an explanation which worked for our ancestors isn’t easy; even when it is antiquated.

Fortunately, we live in a world where humans have more and more power to control their destiny.  In the near future, we may have the ability to destroy the random comet before it destroys us.  For the first time in human history, we are altering genetic code.  So much of what we once ascribed to god’s hand, is now in ours. Though there will always be some things beyond our control, accepting and addressing the randomness of life is an important evolutionary step.  Those who do so are more likely to survive and thrive.

**Editor’s Question** What luck have you had talking to friends and family about evolution – or Trump?

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MulhollandJim Mulholland spent twenty-five years as a pastor. He wrote several best selling Christian books and spoke nationally.  In 2008, he resigned when his faith faltered.  After several years of transition, Jim published the book Leaving Your Religion and began writing a blog on becoming post-religious.  You can read more of Jim’s story and reflections at LeavingYourReligion.com.

>>Photo credits: By The original uploader was TimVickers at English Wikipedia – Transferred from en.wikipedia to Commons., Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=2785168

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  • Machintelligence

    the issue is one of faith and not fact.

    Back up one step. The problem is defining faith as a virtue instead of a character flaw. Faith is just gullibility all dressed up in its Sunday best.

    • Anders Ryndel

      I’ve found that a good way of saving you a headache and a lot of time arguing with religious people is by pivoting the discussion away from the nature of reality to the morality of faith.

      Sometimes, the segway is even provided by the religious with the imfamous “I don’t have enough faith to believe in X”-line.

      • Berlzebub

        Then you also have to get them to define faith, and make them lock in the definition so they don’t change it according to how it fits their point in the conversation.

    • http://webpages.charter.net/silkroad/ kermit

      Not just gullibility. Once one’s faith is established (typically during early childhood) it sustains one’s membership in good standing in the Tribe. To acknowledge being scammed by an email fraud is merely embarrassing. To acknowledge that embracing demonstrably false claims about the universe is morally and cognitively wrong is to be ostracized. It risks your family, your self-image, your social support, the answers to how to deal with all of life’s problems. Psychologically, when confronted with science challenging special creation, these folks are fighting for their lives. I rejected my Southern Baptist doctrine when I was 13. For an adult, it’s a choice between seeking truth and (everlasting) life. To have to be willing to die, in order to accept that you probably will die. You have to be willing to accept any truth, ir order to seek it honestly.

      There are, of course, Christians and other theists who expect an eternal afterlife but still accept mainstream science. But for the biblical literalist, he or she has been taught that it’s all or nothing.

      • ctcss

        There are, of course, Christians and other theists who expect an eternal afterlife but still accept mainstream science. But for the biblical literalist, he or she has been taught that it’s all or nothing.

        Which is why the title “Why People Hate Evolution” is both inaccurate and misleading. The problems that non-believers have are usually with those who approach religion with a dogmatic or literalist or inerrantist mindset.

        I wish people would just flat out (accurately) call a spade a spade. It’s not being religious that’s the problem, it’s being religious with a less-than-helpful approach, i.e. being unkind, self-righteous, hypocritical, dogmatic, intolerant, unthinking, etc., which means that it isn’t really religion that’s the common factor, it’s the other stuff.

        I mean, when was the last time anyone here was complaining about those damn Quakers?

        • Linda_LaScola

          Not all religious people deny evolution, but many do and they give their religion as a reason for their denial.

          PS – the author of this article, Jim Mulholland, gave it its title. Jim was a pastor in United Methodist and Quaker churches before leaving religion.

          • ctcss

            Linda, I fully agree that some religious people do deny evolution. But that was my point. It is only some that do, not all. And Jim made it a rather broad-brush comment by saying “people” rather than “some people”, or “some religious people”, or “some religious people with a particular mindset”.

            Do we really want to encourage broad-brush remarks when they cause so much confusion and animosity? Would you approve of a broad-brush remark about atheists being immoral? It’s rather obvious that some believers and non-believers are likely to be immoral. But would you approve of a broad-brush headline stating “Why Atheists Are Immoral” and allow it to be published on your blog? I would hope not.

            And if you can understand that, I would hope you can understand why I very much dislike broad-brush statements aimed in other directions.

          • Linda_LaScola

            In his defense, he doesn’t say “all” people hate evolution. Granted, the way it’s stated could be misconstrued, but given that the writer himself is a Quaker, it seems that he could be given the benefit of the doubt about his word choice.

          • ctcss

            Linda, I might be willing to give Jim the benefit of the doubt, but I wouldn’t be so willing to give you (or your editorial board) a free pass on that issue. I expect hard questions and a deep understanding to be exercised on these more difficult questions and contentious areas of thought.

            In essence, I want light rather than heat, and clarity rather than smokiness, and such a thing doesn’t just happen by accident. For instance,watching Donald Trump in action, I am amazed at how easily he plays to people’s fears and desires. He is not trying to bring light and understanding to tricky questions at all. Rather, he seems to revel in throwing up smoke screens. His efforts are designed to take advantage of people’s confusion, misunderstanding, and fears.

            And that’s the point. People do have many confusions, misunderstandings, and fears. And unless they feel capable of doing some serious digging and thinking themselves, they are likely to to be imprisoned by those unhelpful qualities of thought. So when people who should know better fail to counteract these misunderstandings (or at least should be asking tougher questions and seeking better understanding themselves so that they can help others see more clearly), it can easily leave people in a position they shouldn’t be trapped in.

            So yes, I expect you and your staff to catch mistakes and misleading thoughts that pass by your desks. The world needs healing, and that won’t happen if those who should know better fail to act.

            Yes, it may seem like a small thing to argue over, but clarity and understanding have to win out over darkness and fear if we ever expect to make progress as individuals and societies.

          • Linda_LaScola

            The Rational Doubt Blog edits for grammatical clarity and not to adapt people’s ideas.

            Many different authors write here, as you know. They express their own opinions and own experiences. There is no policy that the editor must agree with every position a writer takes. People speak for themselves in their own voice.

            In the case of an essay that has already been posted elsewhere, the policy is to repost it without changes unless there is a blooper of a grammatical error.

  • Dannorth

    Very interesting post. Viewing the resistance to evolution as an identity issue explains a lot.

    Indeed the more we know about the universe the less special we seem.

    In astronomy Earth has become an insignificant speck of dust.

    Evolution shows we are animals too.

    Studies of animal psychology has shown they share many attributes we thought were only human.

    The study of consciousness has shown it to be a much less glorified process than previously thought.

    The cumulative effect of this is to make me think that it is the believers who lack humility and not the atheists.

    • Uncle Dave

      Why do special and insignificant have to be mutually exclusive in the minds of so many? I like what Carl Sagan’s protagonist from his novel Contact, Dr. Arroway, had to say: “A vision… of the universe, that tells us, undeniably, how tiny, and insignificant and how… rare, and precious we all are!”

  • Uzza

    Kudos to the author for seeing to the heart of the matter. Every religious person’s position boils down to this:

    “If (my sect ) is not true, I personally am not the special, chosen, crown of creation of a loving God who cares about me.
    Since I lack the courage to face that fact, I have faith instead.”

  • kraut2

    “Accepting the randomness of life is an act of courage.”

    It is the adult thing to do. To cling to a father figure for meaning, purpose and guidance ,cowering under his protection always seemed to me childish in the extreme and I do not know how folks doing that can properly be called adults.

    Of course, it is comforting to believe that, as it is comforting to think that daddy will always take care of you. During adolescence the realization that this hinders your own growth, the development of your self will let you cut the strings.
    Religious adherents just transfer from one daddy to the next – they never really grow up and realize they are accountable for their own actions – free will or not.

    • Anders Ryndel

      It also struck me as supreme narcissism. There’s a decaseptillion tonnes of star mass in the observable universe, but what really matters are the bags of mostly water weighing a couple of dozens kilograms each.

    • http://webpages.charter.net/silkroad/ kermit

      Hmmm. Perhaps that is why so many of them (especially the biblical literalists) have the morals of a toddler. That is, moral behavior = obedience to authority. Not the golden rule, which seems to baffle those folks, but rather, if God said to do X, then X is right, and if God forbids it, then X is evil. This is why they morally conflate being gay and raping – they are both examples of disobedience. Consent or causing pain has nothing to do with it.

      So… Daddy will take care of me, but I have to do what he says.

      • mason

        gay is always sinful in the bible….raping is condoned if done for Jehovah

    • mason

      Exactly!

    • firemermaid

      Where did this quote come from? I love it and want to make sure I give proper credit.

      • ElizabetB.

        “Accepting the randomness of life is an act of courage” is from this post by Jim Mulholland. I’m sure he’ll be delighted you like it!!

  • Odd Jørgensen

    Please, please stop saying evolution in conjunction with geological matters. The Grand Canyon has as much to do with evolution as String Theory is related to the making of cheese.

    • http://webpages.charter.net/silkroad/ kermit

      I beg to differ. Evolution could not have led to humanity and our contemporary cousins (pine trees, squid, puppies, etc.) without a monumental length of time. It was eighteenth century geologists who first began to reject biblical literalism.

      On the other hand, it’s hard to think of people being around for billions of years. You’d think there’d be more artifacts… (and there would be). If Earth was created billions of years ago, in the manner mainstream science describes, why wait so long for the special creation of humans?

      Biological processes and geological processes are divided by humans for convenience. One cannot really study science without accepting all of it. There is another path – my work out buddy in university was a devout Christian who went on to earn his PhD in microbiology. He said that “Science is studying how God does things.” He saw evolution as God’s way of making people – start with a universe, Big Bang and all that, and eventually you start getting self aware people. Cognition is “God’s image”, not eyebrows and fingernails and sweat glands. What use would they have for an omnipotent being?

      Me, I just accept what I see. [shrug] But you can practice or accept science without rejecting religion. You will, however, have to let go of the idea that It’s All About Us®.

      • chemical

        When I was still religious, this was the way I saw evolution. Asserting that God created humanity doesn’t tell you anything about the process he used to make it happen.

      • Odd Jørgensen

        Besides the point, the fact of the matter that the Colorado river is the “creator” of TGC is not related to biology in any sense.

      • http://brmckay.wordpress.com/ brmckay

        “You will, however, have to let go of the idea that It’s All About Us®.”

        But, it is also, and in equal measure, about us. Therefore, “All about us”.

        Nuances, nuances.

    • gimpi1

      Well, geology gives good evidence of deep time, the sort of time you need for natural selection to lead to the development of species. It also displays some of the best evidence – fossils are part of the geologic record.

      I married a geologist. Can you tell?

  • katiehippie

    My anecdata suggests they really don’t understand evolution. They think it means survival of the fittest or that two species can mate and create a new species.

    • gimpi1

      I’ve run into that specific lack of understanding, too. I don’t know how widespread it is. It’s possible that it’s circulated by some of the “Creationist” textbooks some religious schools and home-school families use.

  • Berlzebub

    What luck have you had talking to friends and family about evolution – or Trump?

    Way back when, my cousin made the comment that he didn’t believe “we come from monkeys”. I already figured out what he was getting at, but asked him to clarify to make sure.

    Then I asked him if he was my dad. That confused him, and I explained that is what he’s saying. I used our shared ancestry of paternal grandparents, my dad and his (my uncle), to explain ToE.

    My uncle makes AiG look semi-sane. He doesn’t believe dinosaurs existed, and that fossils are just rocks that were carved by the devil to fool us. So I’ve had to explain a few things to my relatives.

    The cousin I’m talking about I’m very close to, and we spent summers together growing up. His twin brother is a bit more apathetic about religion, but this cousin has shown some dangerous signs of being fundamentalist.

    I’ve outright called my cousin out on ignorance, and I’ve also done so to my uncle. My uncle never talks about science, though.

    As far as Trump, I’m afraid to ask. If they buy into his faux-religiosity then I can see it, but I know they won’t vote for Hillary. My only hope is they don’t vote at all.

    • Linda_LaScola

      Thanks for this. I suggest you read the NY Times column linked above — and read some of the comments there too. There are some sound arguments made, in my opinion, for asking their family members about Trump.

      Last I heard my Republican family members were not Trump supporters (Whew!), but that was during the primaries.

      • Berlzebub

        I’ll be seeing my immediate family (mom, dad, and those who still live around where I grew up) in July, and I intend on figuring out their stance then.

        Distance, children, and life in general make it more difficult to keep in contact with my cousins like I used to. Now that summer’s approaching, I’m hoping for a get-together, and I might be able to get a sense of where they stand then.

        My cousins I can possibly talk some sense into, but I’ve just learned to ignore my uncle. He start to rant/preach about me wearing shorts once. The temps were in the mid-nineties (f), and the humidity was around 95%. To him wearing shorts is a sign of vanity, and he ignored my reasoning of dealing with the oppressive heat. So I switched tactics, to ask why he has a comb over.

        Yeah… We don’t see each other much, anymore.

        • Linda_LaScola

          Funny — a bald head would be a lot cooler too!

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            I SUGGEST LINDA, YOU READ MY COMMENTS ON TRUMP. BESIDES, BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED IN ENGLAND TODAY, CAUSES ME TO BELIEVE TRUMP IS NOT ONLY GOING TO WIN, HE IS GOING TO WIN BY A MUSH LARGER PERCENT THAN MOST THINK HE EVER COULD.

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      ANYONE WHO VOTES FOR A PATHETIC, PROLIFC LIAR LIKE HILLARY HAS NO MORE ETHICS, HONOR, INTEGRITY AND MORALS THAN SHE DOES AND SHE HAS ZERO OF ANY OF THEM!

      • Berlzebub

        Wow. You remind me of my uncle. LOUD, opinionated, and very black/white thinking. FYI, there’s a key, that should be located on the left side of your keyboard, that’s called “Caps Lock”. Make sure it’s turned off, and you might get more people to listen to you.

        I’ll admit that I’m not fond of Hillary, but even though Trump is truthful that doesn’t mean he’s the better candidate. Telling the truth about being racist, misogynistic, and bigoted is not a reason to vote for him. Actually, it would be an outright endorsement of all of those qualities.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          FIRST. THE ODDS OF YOUR HAVING ANY, MUCH LESS AS MANY, OF THOSE WHO WILL ATTEST YOU ARE ONE OF, IF NOT THE SINGLE MOST HONEST AND TRUTHFUL PERSON THEY KNOW, AS I DO ARE ZERO.

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          AND YOU CLUELESS CLOD, I DEFY YOU TO PROVE HILLARY IS NOT A PROLIFIC LIAR!
          OR THAT THOSE WHO ARE PROLICIC LIARS HAVE ETHICS, HONOR, INTEGRITY AND GOOD MORALS

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT
  • Kevin K

    I had discussions with meat-space friends a while back about creationism versus science. And I was able to get them to agree that science does declare that the universe is 14.7 billion years old, that the Earth is only about 1/3 the age of the universe (making the bible scientifically errant 10 words in — because that’s not “THE BEGINNING”), and that all of the genetic and fossil evidence points to the fact that life started as single-celled organisms and evolved from there over billions of years.

    And yet, my one friend said he still “preferred to believe” in the creationist story. It wasn’t stated outright — but it’s obvious that rejecting myth in favor of science also required him to reject the rest of the religious teachings. Including the pleasant after-death experience he was anticipating.

    • mason

      Yep, I know chaps and lasses like that. Amazing how the human brain can compartmentalize and hang onto complete nonsense and absurdity. Reminds me of a mother chimp carrying around her dead baby for days. Too bad silly theism doesn’t produce a foul odor after being in the brain for over a week. :)

      • Elizabeth.

        More arresting imagery!!!

        I guess the timeline is just eons rather than days for rancid effects to be detected & avoided? Thanks for the picture : )

      • NEIL C. REINHARDT

        THE PROGRAMMING THEY RECEIVED AS BABIES, CHILDREN AND TEENS IS SO STRONG, IT SIMPLY OVERRIDES ANY OF THE ABILITIES THEY MAY HAVE TO USE ANY OF THEIR EXPERIENCE, COMMON SENSE AND LOGIC ON THE SUBJECT OF THEIR OWN RELIGION.

  • mason

    The Creationist Cretins are very active at/in the Grand Canyon. They used to have their literature at the ranger stations on the edge of the south rim. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-newton/creationism-in-the-grand-canyon_b_7898010.html

    • Linda_LaScola

      I don’t suppose you can stop people on private tours of expressing their different views, but I can say with some certainty that official part materials that you pick up at ranger stations do not make any mention or suggestion of creationism. It’s all facts, based on evidence.

      Also the creationist book which was available at park book stores in 2003 doesn’t seem to be there anymore. I can’t say that with certainty, but I spent time in the children’s section and didn’t see anything like that.

      • mason

        Yep, “was”, hope that’s still the case, these Evangelical pests tend to keep coming back. Raid! :)

  • Elizabeth.

    Thanks so much for the Trump question and recommending we read the comments to Bruni’s column.

    This is the first election in decades that my spouse & I can peacefully newswatch together… thank goodness!!!!!!!

    But the comments to Bruni’s column are making me screw up my courage to do more than register people to vote [those I figure will vote anti- : ) and whom our legislature has made it tough on to get properly id’d]. I attend a church full of people who are likely thinking about holding their noses and voting against Obama (& Hillary). As retired clergy, I usually do my letters to the editor on issues that they probably disagree with but with effort can remain friends despite. But I am seeing this choice pretty apocalyptically, and agree with comparisons to the rise of Hitler/Stalin/Mao. I don’t think there’s any way to frame the issues without betraying this, which will be very hard on friendships.

    I may even get back on FaceBook, tho I dread having to deal with the imaginary outrageous claims of conservative relatives.

    Some may say that Trump is God’s withdrawing protection from the USA over gay marriage. whew

    Will welcome all advice on how to be most persuasive!!!!!!! Thanks, Linda!!

    • Linda_LaScola

      Brava, Elizabeth and keep us posted.

      • NEIL C. REINHARDT

        Hillary Clinton’s State Dept. shut down an investigation into the mosque Orlando killer Omar Mir Siddique Mateen attended because it “unfairly singled out Muslims.”

        The Fort Pierce Islamic Center, where Mateen worshipped several times a week, was under investigation by both the FBI and DHS as early as 2011 for ties to a worldwide Islamic movement known as Tablighi Jamaal which was linked to several terrorist organizations.

        But the investigation was shut down under pressure from the Clinton-ran State Dept. and DHS’s Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Office out of fear of offending Muslims, according to recently retired DHS agent Philip Haney

      • NEIL C. REINHARDT

        ANYONE WHO THINKS WE CAN PEACEFULLY CO-EXIST WITH MUSLIMS IS IGNORANT OF THE TRUTH.

        AND GO TO FRIENDLY ATHEIST PAGE TO POST THE FOLLOWING

        ANYONE WHO THINK WE CAN PEACEFULLY CO-EXIST WITH ANY MUSLIMS WHO FAITHFULLY FOLLOW THE QUR’AN ARE VERY IGNORANT OF THE TRUTH.

        THUS, IT WOULD BEHOOVE YOU, YOUR LOVED ONES AND ALL YOUR FRIENDS FOR YOU TO LEARN THE FACTS CONTAINED IN THESE VIDEOS.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mllMkm8pcVU

        http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

        MUSLIM SUPPORT OF ISIS

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_xOJz0LtF4

        THE VIDEO BELOW IS A MUST WATCH AND MOST SHARE VIDEO!! : BRIGITTE GABRIEL GIVES FANTASTIC ANSWER TO MUSLIM WOMAN’S QUESTION…AND WHAT SHE SAYS APPLIES TO ALL RELIGIONS. I WILL BE WATCHING IT AND HEARING WANT SHE SAYS MORE THAN A FEW TIMES!!!!

        THE SPEAKER, BRIGITTE GABRIEL IS A VERY BRIGHT AND VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE LADY, WE SHOULD DO ALL WE CAN TO GET AS MANY OTHERS AS POSSIBLE SEE AND HEAR HER COMMENTS!

        http://therightscoop.com/brigitte-gabriel-gives-fantastic-answer-to-muslim-woman-claiming-all-muslims-are-portrayed-badly/

        ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE? NOT ACCORDING TO THE QUR’AN

        QUR’AN 2:191

        QUR’AN 3:28

        QUR’AN 3:85

        QUR’AN 5:33

        QUR’AN 8:12

        QUR’AN 8:60

        QUR’AN 8:65

        QUR’AN 9:5

        QUR’AN 9:123

        QUR’AN 22:19

        QUR’AN 47:4

      • NEIL C. REINHARDT
      • ElizabetB.

        Hi Linda! here’s a blast from the past!

        You wrote “keep us posted” about the Trump challenges… http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rationaldoubt/2016/05/3619/#comment-2698117529 and as it turns out, they’ve been continuing here in “Why People Hate Evolution.” So far, surprisingly, issues have been different from what I expected.

        Another surprise — my first Trump Letter to the Editor turned out to be in answer to the Klan leafleting our small town community in a recruiting drive. I think, as the SPLC demonstrates, that Trump’s rhetoric is emboldening hate groups. I haven’t known there to be a leafleting here in decades, if ever, though I’ve always heard stories about its presence, and online research for my Letter pulled up a Loyal White Knights invitation last December to a local “Christmas Dinner and Cross Lighting.” That’s shudderworthy.

        I hope you’re not seeing this in the D.C. community!!!!! (excluding Capitol Hill)

        fwiw here’s my letter

        “Thanks to Mayor ___ and Police Chief ___ for their strong, immediate, and inspiring responses to leafleting last week that denigrated a minority [transgender] while recruiting for the Klan. Chief ___ wrote: ‘We have good people living in ___ and ___ County who have the right to protection from fear and intimidation. We will protect that right and with the help of our good people, we will send a unified message that love is more powerful than hate.’ Mayor ___ said, ‘The City of ___ will not tolerate any actions against citizens by groups who have a mission of racial, sexual, religious or any other kind of intimidation. While these types of groups have First Amendment protections for their recruitment or message, we stand by our city’s mission to be a safe and fair place for all who choose to live here.’

        “The target of the flyers are citizens that we are just beginning to understand better – citizens who are transgender, and so little understood that they face persistent discrimination. As a result these gifted individuals are a disproportionately large percentage of the U.S. homeless population, a tragedy I hope and trust will soon change as we value, cherish, respect, and protect each person.

        “I would like to send a message to the White Knights: I read that your goal is to ‘protect our family, race and nation’ and ‘restore America to a White, Christian nation founded on God’s word.’

        “God’s word tells us to ‘love one another’ (John 13:34 King James Version), even ‘love your enemies’ (Matthew 5:44 and Luke 6:27 King James Version).

        “Our nation is built on “all men are created equal” (Declaration of Independence).

        “I challenge and invite you to truly uphold Jesus’ words and the Constitution by working for liberty and justice for all, in the way of love. In this way, we will all enjoy one another’s fellowship — safe, respected, and enriched!”

        ***************
        I read that the White Knights are planning a rally locally in September… hope we can get a “harmony” rally going at the same time

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      THIS MUCH MORE GENERALLY EXPERIENCED THAN MOST MY AGE OF 81, WHOSE IQ IS IN THR TOP TWO PERCENT. WHO HAS BEEN A AN AGNOSTIC ATHEST FOR 70OF MY 81 YRS AND AN ATHEIST ACTIVIST FOR OVER 50 YEARS, HAS TOO HIGH OF ETHICS, HONOR, INTEGRITY AND MORALS TO EVER VOTE FOR A PROLIFIC PATHETIC LIAR LIKE HILLARY IS. ————— WHILE TRUMP IS FAR FROM PERFECT, HE SURE AS HELL IS THE BEST CHOICE WHO CAN WIN.——————————————————————————————————- THUS HE HAS MY., AND I KNOW MAANY OTHER ATHEISTS VOTES.

      • ElizabetB.

        Hello, Neil Reinhardt. I am curious why you would support Trump over Clinton if you are judging based on truth-telling.

        Do you disagree with PolitiFact ratings? For Trump / Hillary they rate statements

        true 2% / 23%
        mostly true 7% / 28%
        half true 14% / 21%
        mostly false 16% / 15%
        false 41% / 11%
        pants on fire 20% / 1%

        and Trump was awarded 2015 Lie of the Year.
        http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
        http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

        One of the more recent evaluations for Mr. Trump is “Says Hillary Clinton ‘has even deleted this record of total support (for the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement) from her book’ — Deleted? So why are her comments still there?” He seems to say what he would like to be the case at any given moment, unconcerned even when he contradicts himself.

        I have never been a Hillary fan, but I am thinking there must be something other than truthfulness or facticity that causes you to choose Mr. Trump?

        • NEIL C. REINHARDT

          HELLO ELIZABETH,

          FIRST, WHILE MOST OF WE ATHEISTS ARE HYOCRITES, I AM NOT. ATHEISTS RAVE ABOUT HOW THE RELIGIOUS ALWAYS PUT THEIR VIEWS ON RELIGION ABOVE THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY AND HOW WRONG IT IS OF THEM TO DO SO.

          THEN, MOST ATHEISTS TURN AROUND AND DO THE EXACT SAME THING! THEY CARE LESS IF A ELECTING A RELIGIOUS PERSON TO OFFICE IS THE MOST RATIONAL, LOGICAL AND INTELLIGENT THING TO DO, THEY WILL VOTE AGAINST THEM SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE RELIGIOUS!

          THANKFULLY, THERE ARE A BUNCH OF ATHEISTS WHO ARE RATIONAL LOGICAL INFORMED AND INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO BE CONSERVATIVES.

          ASIDE FROM ME, THE PRESIDENT OF AMERICAN ATHEISTS, DAVID SILVERMAN, IS ONE OF THE MANY.

          FYI, IF YOU SEARCH FOR FORMER FAMOUS LIBERALS, YOU WILL HIND MANY HUNDREDS. WHERE AS IF YOU SEARCH FOR FORMER FAMOUS
          CONSERATIVIES, YOU MIGHT FIND A VERY FEW.

          THIS IS BECAUSE LIKE MANY OF THE RELIGIOUS, WHOSE GAIN IN EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE LEAD THEM TO ATHEISM, THE SAME LEADS MANY LIBERALS TO CONSERVISM.

          SECOND, FIRST, CAN YOU DEFINE WHAT A LIE ACTUALLY IS? I FIND MANY GET IT WRONG.

          ONLY TO PUBICLY SAY SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF: ” I WAS SHOT AT BY SNIPERS WHEN GETTING OFF OF AN AIRPLANE.” WHEN IT NEVER HAPPENED IS ONE OF HILLARYS MANY, MANY LIES.

          IS TRUMP WHO I REALLY WANT? NO, IS TRUMP A WHOLE LOT BETTER THAN A SOCIAIST AND A PROLIFIC LIAR? YOU BETTCHA!

          THIRD, THE TRULY INTELLIGENT PEOPLE WHO PAY ATTENTION TO CURRENT EVENTS DO NOT NEED PolitiFact ratings TO KWOW WHO LIES THE MOST. BESIDES I AM FAIRLY SURE PolitiFact ratings IS A DUMOCRAT RUN GROUP AND NOT TRUTHFUL THEMSELVES.

          ASIDE FROM THE FACT HILLARY SHOULD BE IN JAIL AND IS A PROLIFIC LIAR, WE HAVE SUFFERED THROUGH NEARLY EIGHT YEARS OF ODUMA’S FAILURES IN ECONOMICS, HIS RELATIONS WITH OTHER COUNTRIES AND HIS SPENDING MORE TAX MONEY IN HIS FIRST SIX YEARS THAN HAVE ALL PREVIOUS US PRESIDENTS, COMBINED-!!!!

          PLUS, HIS WORDS / ACTIONS HAVE MADE RACE RELATIONS THE WORSE THEY HAVE BEEN SINCE THE LATE 1960’S. AND FYI, I NOT ONLY RISKED MY LIFE FOR BLACK CIVIL RIGHTS, I HAVE DONE MORE FOR BLACK CIVIL RIGHTS THAN HAVE MOST OTHERS. PLUS, TODAY, I SPEND TIME AND MONEY HELPING THE BLACKS WHO LIVE AROUND ME,

          ODUMA, IS WHY WE LOST IRAQ, AND WHY ISIS IS AS STRONG AS IT IS. AND WHILE ODUMA HAS DONE GOOD IN SOME SOCIAL AREAS, OVER ALL, HE IS ONE OF THE WORST PRESIDENTS IN MY 81 YEARS OF LIFE.

          SO IT IS TIME FOR A CHANGE.

          AND BASED ON WHAT JUST HAPPENED IN ENGLAND, I AM AS SURE AS I CAN BE THAT TRUMP WILL NOT ONLY WIN, HE WILL DO SO BY A MUCH LARGER MARGIN THAN MOST THINK POSSIBLE.

          LAST, WELCOME TO ATHEISM!

          PLEASE, TAKE CARE!

          NEIL

          PS AS I WILL BE UN-BANNED FROM FACEBOOK ON THE 1ST, IF YOU ARE A FACEBOOK PERSON, PLEASE CHECK OUT MY PAGE, AND IF YOU LIKE IT.PLEASE BECOME ONE OF MY OVER 500 MOSTLY ATHEIST FRIENDS.

          (-I WAS BANNED FOR QUOTING SOME OF THE O.T. PLACES WHERE IT INSTRUCTS CHRISTIANS TO KILL MANY.-)

          • ElizabetB.

            Thanks for elaborating, Neil Reinhardt.

            Hats off for your work for civil rights and helping minorities in your area now!

            I have found Hillary Clinton’s account of landing under fire troubling, too. I don’t think it was a lie, because she would know it could be quickly disproved. I think she actually believed it — but that is troubling in itself — believing something that did not happen does not inspire a lot of confidence.

            But weighed against that, there are so many instances of Mr. Trump saying things that don’t square with reality that I tilt toward Ms. Clinton.

            I agree that race relations have deteriorated markedly in recent years. But I fear that Mr. Trump’s remarks are accelerating it. My hunch is that you’d be skeptical of the Southern Poverty Law Center statistics, but fwiw here’s an overview: https://www.splcenter.org/news/2016/02/17/splcs-intelligence-report-amid-year-lethal-violence-extremist-groups-expanded-ranks-2015

            Our small community was leafleted by the Klan last month, recruiting…. the first time I’ve known that to happen in my lifetime (b. 1937), and my suspicion is that they are emboldened by Mr. Trump’s remarks and the growth of the white supremacist groups that strongly support him. https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/05/06/right-wing-extremists-hail-ascension-%E2%80%98emperor-trump%E2%80%99-gop-nominee

            One of my biggest concerns is his attitude toward Muslims and immigrants. I reject stereotyping and scapegoating. In the case of Muslims, simple self-interest says that they are probably in the best position to help protect the U.S. against lone wolves —
            or as FBI director says, “lone rats” : )

            I have to smile at being banned from FB because of O.T. quotes — yes, there is some major violence there. Typically Christians argue that Jesus’ command to love our enemies overides those, though.

            About a change in policy for Iraq and ISIS — you might prefer Clinton to Trump. One of the reasons I voted in the primary for Bernie was that I’ve always understood that she is more of a hawk than President Obama. It’s impossible to know what Mr. Trump will do since he changes his position from day to day, but he often sounds rather isolationist, as in the primaries: “in the past few weeks, he has faced scrutiny for saying that the U.S. has no role in fighting the Islamic State or the ruling regime in Syria, and that it is OK for Russia to strike targets, including U.S.-backed rebels, inside Syria.” http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/26/donald-trumps-isolationist-foreign-policy-attacked/

            I was surprised to hear David Silverman is a conservative? Googling brings up the effort to have a display at CPAC, but about his own leanings what I see is

            “’There’s a big chunk of atheists that could be interested in the Republican Party but are not doing so because of the influence of the Christian right,’ said Silverman, who described himself as a fiscal conservative who votes Democratic because of the Republican views on church and state.” http://www.skepticmoney.com/david-silverman-atheist-conservative-outs-cpac/

            Thanks for the Hillary links below. I was familiar with the youth video questions (which needed added context) except for the rape case. According to Snopes, she was assigned to the case by the judge, wanted to be excused from taking it, but had to do her job as public defender. That would be a horrible job, for sure!!!!!!! http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-freed-child-rapist-laughed-about-it/

            For me, these things don’t overbalance my concern about stereotyping, scapegoating, and misogyny, tho like you I am not happy with our choices this November. At least the deficit is going down! http://federal-budget.insidegov.com/l/118/2015

            Thanks for the conversation; I wish you well!

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            YOU ARE WELCOME, ElizabetB.

            IF HILLARY DOES NOT KNOW TELLING OTHERS SHE WAS SHOT AT BY A SNIPER WHEN SHE WAS NOT IS A LIE, SHE IS TOO STUPID TO BE PRESIDENT.
            AS FAR AS HILLARY, SADLY, YOU REMIND ME OF A TYPICAL PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT CHRISTIAN WHO DENIES ANY FACTS WHICH DO NOT BACK UP THEIR BELIEFS.

            ANY OPEN MINDED, INFORMED, LOGICAL, RATIONAL AND INTELLIGENT PERSON KNOWS HILLARY LIES. THE FACT ODUMA HAS A 160 IQ AND LIES AND THEN LIES SOME MORE, PROVES HIGH INTELLIGENCE DOES NOT STOP ANY FROM LYING EVEN WHEN THEIR LIES ARE SO EASY TO SEE.

            WHILE THOSE WITH EFFECTIVE HIGH IQ’S MAY LIE, THEY ARE SMART ENOUGH TO MAKE IT HARD TO FIND OUT THEY ARE LYING. WHILE I HATE LYING, I REALIZE, EVER SO OFTEN, LYING MAY BE A MORAL ACT,

            ONLY MUSLIMS WHO NOT FOLLOW THE QUR’AN WOULD HELP PROTECT THE REST OF US FROM THE MANY NUTS IN THEIR RELIGION. METHINKS THE EX-MUSLIMS ARE OUR BEST HOPE.

            BELOW YOU WILL FIND SOME EDUCATION ABOUT MUSLIMS WHICH I HOPE YOU WILL EXAMINEAND CONSIDER..

            FROM WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT SILVERMAN IS TRUE, HE IS ONE VERY POOR CONSERVATIVE AND ALSO A TYPICAL ATHEIST HYPOCRITE,

            I THINK THOSE WHO JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS ARE THOSE WHO THINK TRUMP IS RACIST & BIGOTED.

            AND WHILE TRUMP IS, AS ARE MOST AS MOST ARE TOO LAZY TO GET THE FACTS, WRONG ON IRAQ, I CAN NOT HAVE WHAT I WANT.

            WHILE I HAD NO REASON I CAN THINK OF TO DISAGREE WITH THE SPLC. SINCE YOU , MENTIONED IT, MAYBE I DO.

            PLEASE, TAKE CARE!

            NEIL

          • ElizabetB.

            Sadly I’m with you on “I can not have what I want” in the presidential race — I have to decide which is worse. Choosing Hillary doesn’t mean I approve of all her statements, just that I think Mr. Trump is more dangerous.

            As a retired chaplain, and a freethinker, I have studied Islam and have read much of the Qur’an. I think Islam is like Christianity — people can pull out the verses they choose to make a case for their positions — some can reach peaceful conclusions, like the Quakers and peaceful Muslims; others can read their scriptures as mandating violence, like the Crusaders, Inquisition, and ISIS.

            I’m glad that so far the SPLC has been ok for you… I think they do fabulous work and have been very effective against the Klan… Sounds like they would be allies with the civil rights work you’ve written about being part of.

            I agree we need to study carefully!! Thanks again

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            HELLO “E”

            AS YOUR COMMENTS ON MUSLIMS PROVE YOU HAVE LITTLE CLUE ABOUT THE QURAN.

            PLEASE WATCH THE FIRST VIDEO AND LEARN HOW WRONG YOU ARE,

            THEN, GET BACK TO ME.

            IN THE 30 SOME YEARS, TRUMP WAS A VERY PUBLIC, PUBLIC FIGURE. HE WAS NEVER CALLED A RACIST OR A BIGOT UNTIL THE DUM-O-CRATS STARTED TO.

            PLEASE INFORM ME OF WHAT HE SAID ABOUT HILLARY WHICH WAS NOT TRUE.

            THANKS

            NEIL

          • ElizabetB.

            About the first Islam video — Yes, I’m familiar with those points — they are essentially the jihadi version of Islam. Why do the terrorists’ work for them by calling this the true Islam? Wouldn’t that be like calling the KKK version of Christianity the true Christianity? Why not popularize instead the peaceful Islam?

            The video relies heavily on the assertion that in Islam you can’t “pick and choose” — the violent verses are the most recent and therefore they “abrogate” the peaceful ones. That is the ISIS view.

            But peaceful Muslim scholars dispute that, saying not only that the idea of “abrogation” did not occur during the prophet’s lifetime, but the meaning is quite different — it can even refer to honoring the Jewish and Christian scriptures. Why not call this version of Islam the “true” Islam? We might save a young Muslim’s life by questioning what he is reading on jihadi websites. Plus the lives of innocents he would take with him.

            Interestingly, Bin Ladin did not use abrogation, but instead left out parts of verses & context: http://www.unc.edu/courses/2008spring/reli/584/001/texts/gwynne.pdf

            Another scholarly analysis of abrogation is here: “Abrogation and Islamic Jurisprudence: A Quick Appraisal,” which points out that scholars declare their own preferred verses as final, all others as “abrogated.” (That sounds familiar!) Best practice is to apply verses according to the historical context in which they were received and the current context in which they will be consulted.
            file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/271-551-1-PB%20(1).pdf

            A very powerful Ted talk by a lovely Muslim woman is here. http://www.ted.com/talks/karima_bennoune_the_side_of_terrorism_that_doesn_t_make_headlines/transcript?language=en

            In the Talk, Karima Bennoune says the problem in all religious violence is fundamentalism — but that liberals have dangerous faults too:
            “Western discourse has most often offered two flawed responses. The first that one sometimes finds on the right suggests that most Muslims are fundamentalist or something about Islam is inherently fundamentalist, and this is just offensive and wrong, but unfortunately on the left one sometimes encounters a discourse that is too politically correct to acknowledge the problem of Muslim fundamentalism at all or, even worse, apologizes for it, and this is unacceptable as well. So what I’m seeking is a new way of talking about this all together, which is grounded in the lived experiences and the hope of the people on the front lines.”

            Her book is here:
            http://daytonliterarypeaceprize.org/2014-nonfiction_winner.htm

            *******
            Statements about Hillary that are not true? Two recent ones are

            1. To the evangelical clergy: “We don’t know anything about Hillary in terms of religion. Now, she’s been in the public eye for years and years, and yet there’s no — there’s nothing out there.”

            Here’s Hillary at the CNN Democratic Debate when an audience member asked her point blank:
            http://www.vox.com/2016/3/6/11171238/hillary-clinton-god-prayer-democratic-debate

            Buzzfeed had a long article:
            https://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/hillary-clinton-wants-to-talk-to-you-about-love-and-kindness?utm_term=.yo5yNmydy#.jrKPRMPeP

            “Today, she can cast a line back to her childhood in Park Ridge, Illinois, the middle-class Chicago suburb, and tie the lessons from her mother and father and youth minister, Rev. Don Jones, to the questions she wrestled with in college, to the cases she handled as an advocate, to speeches she delivered decades later, to this present moment. And all of it, in Clinton’s telling, starts with John Wesley, founder of her Methodist faith, and his admonition to “do all the good you can, in all the ways you can, for as long as you can.”

            At her concession speech in February she said, drawing on Wesley’s saying
            “You know, my family and my faith taught me a simple thing, do all the good in all the ways you can for all the people you can. That’s what called me to a life of service. Just like millions of teachers and nurses and police officers and firefighters and members of our armed services, who get up every day and do the quiet work, the heroic work for all the rest of us.”

            Lots more, but Mr. Trump felt free to assert to the evangelicals that there’s nothing there.

            2. In a June speech, Mr. Trump said Hillary “has even deleted this record of total support (for the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement) from her book.” Miraculously, it’s still there.

            I have to run, but you can see many more at PolitiFact [those Democrat? fact-lovers : ) ] http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ ] Also all the negative rulings for Hillary.

            Thank you again for the conversation! Reviewing and learning more is helpful.

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            THANK YOU

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4dSiHqpULk

            IF YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT MY VERY OUT SPOKEN FELLOW AGNOSTIC ATHEIST ACTIVIST FROM ENGLAND, PAT CONDELL, ABOVE IS ONE OF HIS MANY VIDEOS. (I TRIED, 5 TIMES TO POST THE URL BELOW MY COMMENTS. ONLY IT WOULD NOT POST BELOW.)

          • ElizabetB.

            I agree, the religion Mr. Condell describes is very disagreeable indeed. I tend to respect the person even if I disapprove of their ideas, with the caveat that if those ideas have harmful consequences I think it’s my obligation to do what I can to alleviate the harm.

            I know what you mean about posting!! Computers are fabulous … if they don’t drive you batty first : )

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            YOUSE A VERY NICE LADY! :-)

          • ElizabetB.

            A very nice thing to say… a remarkable thing in cyberspace these days!! Thank you very much! (Busy weeks coming up, will watch the videos asap)

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            BIG SMILE! :-)

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO THIS LADY ON THE MUSLIM THREAT

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GioaAxPP0Xs

            YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO THIS LADY ON THE MUSLIM THREAT

          • ElizabetB.

            Yes, I’m familiar with Brigitte Gabriel. I totally agree that we’re mortally threatened by ISIS and al Qaeda. But I have met too many peaceful democracy-loving Muslims, read about them, and seen TV reports about them to lump them in with terrorists or deny refugee status to the ones who have gone through the 2-year vetting process. The most important principle is basic human rights; but if we want to consider only self-interest, peaceful Muslims are key players in national security and have helped disrupt plots already:.

            http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/1102/Who-saved-the-day-in-Yemen-bomb-plot-Once-again-a-Muslim
            http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39894024/from/toolbar#.V3A78bgrLIU

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCZ0YF2dasw

            METHINKS YOU AND ALL OTHERS SHOULD LEARN FROM AN EYE-WITTNESS OF MUSLIM TERROR SAYS ABOUT THEM.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCZ0YF2dasw

          • ElizabetB.

            No argument about the threat!!! Far from it. The argument is what needs to be done to help everyone involved… innocent victims of violence, and the perpetrators victimized by the hateful ideology

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-o79wRG2Ho

            HILLARY’S IT GUY WILL NOT ANSWER A QUESTION, 125 TIMES!

          • ElizabetB.

            There’s an FBI investigation going on, and Congressional hearings have already been held. I’m for transparency, but not overkill. I’m confident we will learn anything more there is to learn during the summer.

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT
          • ElizabetB.

            I think this video is about emails?

            About reasons to support Mr. Trump, I am wondering what you made of the Moody’s report this past week?

            Moody’s Analytics
            6-17-16

            “Driven largely by these factors, the
            economy will be significantly weaker if Mr.
            Trump’s economic proposals are adopted.
            Under the scenario in which all his stated
            policies become law in the manner proposed,
            the economy suffers a lengthy recession and
            is smaller at the end of his four-year term
            than when he took office (see Chart). By the
            end of his presidency, there are close to 3.5
            million fewer jobs and the unemployment
            rate rises to as high as 7%, compared with
            below 5% today. During Mr. Trump’s presidency,
            the average American household’s after-inflation income will stagnate, and stock prices and real house values will decline.”
            https://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/2016-06-17-Trumps-Economic-Policies.pdf

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT
          • ElizabetB.

            Again, jihadwatch assumes the ISIS ideology is “true” Islam. I support peaceful Islam against the terrorists. Terrorists are the tiny minority, and I would like them to realize they are on the wrong path, not ratify their claim to be legitimate.

            One information source I value is the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security. http://sites.duke.edu/tcths/ I took one of their online courses, about 9/11, radicalization, etc — https://cit.duke.edu/blog/2013/08/911-and-its-aftermath-begins-soon-on-coursera/ I’ll bet you would enjoy taking one! They’re free; lots of historical source material online; lots of opportunity to discuss with fellow students around the world. Can take them for credit or just audit. Fun and motivates me to dig in to source material.

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            A VERY SMALL PERCENT OF GERMANS WERE NAZIS AND IT STILL RESULTED I OVER 30 MILION DEATHS!

          • ElizabetB.

            Excellent point! As Jefferson said, “The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” We have to be strong and smart!!

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT
        • NEIL C. REINHARDT
          • ElizabetB.

            First video is the youth one referenced above…

            Second one… I agree that Benghazi was a tragedy. But Clinton was devastated by the loss of her gifted and remarkable friend; there was a thorough review, and changes in procedure have been made — too late for the brave diplomats and security detail. I don’t buy the allegations about “what Clinton was doing when” during the attack. Other embassies had been attacked earlier that day specifically reacting to that video, so I can see how the video would be one’s initial understanding of the motives. I disliked very much the uncharitable, and in my view, unreasonable pillory of Hillary during a time of national grief.

            Whew… you cover a lot of ground! Thanks again for the posts

          • NEIL C. REINHARDT

            WHY TRUMP SHOULD BE PRESIDENT

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuiW_Jagl4U

            WHILE TRUMP IS WRONG ON IRAQ, HE IS RIGHT ON MANY THINGS

  • Guthrum

    When I go to a national park, or the beach I see the hand of God, I feel closer to God, and certainly see that only God could be the creator of all things.

    • Linda_LaScola

      How did you determine that, Guthrum?

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      I CAN SEE YOU ARE A TYPICAL PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT WHO HAS NO CLUE YOU WERE PROGRAMMED IN THE FIRST PLACE MUCH LESS HOW VERY PROGRAMMED YOU STILL ARE, — —————————————————————————————————————-AND IF YOU ARE THE LEAST BIT LOGICAL, YOU WOULD REALIZE THE ONLY REASON YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN MANY GODS AS STRONGLY AS YOU NOW BELIEVE IN ONE GOD YOU DO, IS SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU WERE NOT RAISED BY HINDUS!

    • Rt1583

      How do you see the hand of god?
      The “good book” only says that god created. How do you know what, exactly, god created?
      If everything were created by god for its glory why isn’t there a little bit more information given about it?
      Seems to me that as proud as god is that it would provide quite a lot of information about what it created so there would be no doubt as to the veracity of its claim.

    • Duane Locsin

      did you say that while swatting a mosquito that could potential transmit Malaria, or take a swig of the bacteria loaded water from the streams that can also give you meningococcol?

      regardless if you are a troll or a devout believer with a sincere answer, it will still make Religion look silly.

    • XaurreauX

      But worst of all, you’re upsetting Neil!

  • Sol III

    “Evolution calls into question a central assertion of most religion – we are special, created and protected by the divine.”

    If the religious actually believe that, why does their history show they’ve killed so many of ‘god’s’ special creatons?

    • Rt1583

      Easy.
      Those that were killed weren’t part of god’s special creations.
      At least according to the “truth” of the killing group anyway.

      • Duane Locsin

        begs the question why would god create something “un-special”?

        everything he had killed during the flood would also have to be not that special either.

  • http://brmckay.wordpress.com/ brmckay

    The rote recitation of the “randomness”, “meaninglessness”, and “insignificance” of man and his world, is an equivalent form of blindness.

    Of course evolution is the nature of change, but random, it is not. I’ve said recently in another post, but will risk repeating it, the chain of causality is unbroken and can only remain so.

    The mistake that purveyors of “randomness” make, is in not understanding that the essence of our evolving existence, is in its absolute interconnectedness to all phenomena. Not in terms of linear time, but holographically. Not in terms of finite form, but in the common ground of shared infinitude. i.e. eternity.

    Blowing up asteroids as another rational for nuclear weapons, creating chimeras from humans and pigs, or assembling variations on human DNA from scratch; these are the fruit of humans gaining more and more power to control their own destiny.

    The handiwork of a meaningless, blind, and unconnected species.

    • Rt1583

      “Of course evolution is the nature of change, but random, it is not.”
      So you know for a fact that, if the clock was wound back and the process started again, everything would happen exactly as it has to this point and we would be here having this virtual conversation?

      • http://brmckay.wordpress.com/ brmckay

        “So you know for a fact that, if the clock was wound back and the process started again, everything would happen exactly as it has to this point and we would be here having this virtual conversation?”

        What you suggest is completely contrary to the uniqueness of the moment.

        Wind what clock back to when?

        There is only Now.

  • Fmontyr

    The several friends who have said, “I didn’t come from a monkey,” doesn’t receive any reaction from me since I realize they are stuck in a belief mindset which I will be unable to change. I just feel sorry for them.

  • Keo Capestany

    I believe that most people that reject evolution would accept it if mankind had originated in Europe. They cannot stomach the idea that we descend from Africans!

    • NEIL C. REINHARDT

      THE REASON MOST WHO DO NOT ACCEPT IT AS A FACT IS SIMPLY BECAUSE AS BABIES, CHILDREN AND TEENAGERS, THEY WERE PROGRAMMED INTO BELIEVING IN A RELIGION WHO DOES NOT ACCEPT IT.

  • NEIL C. REINHARDT

    SHOULD NOT THE TITLE OF THIS BE: “Why SOME People Hate Evolution”??

  • NEIL C. REINHARDT
    • XaurreauX

      But how do you REALLY feel?

    • porgiefirefighter

      Learning to turn off your cap-lock key is an important evolutionary step.

  • Rt1583

    “The universe does not care if humanity survives and thrives.”
    If caring about the survival and viability of any particular organism, let alone humans, is a requisite for god it seems to me that the natural explanation for what god is, is the humble gene.