Lilandra here.According to the Bible, the ultimate, unpardonable blasphemy is rejecting the Holy Spirit.
Apparently, rejecting the imperceptible and undetectable is unforgivable. Are you Unforgiven II?
This is what gets me…murder, child rape, etc are all “forgivable”. But, just speaking bad about this invisible being will seal your fate.
How is the “holy spirit” hurt by this? It’s weird though that jesus said that one can still slam both him and god, but not the HS.
Mind you, I’ve read of certain apologetic works where they say that somehow, it’s “unbelief” that is unforgivable, and not the literal cussing out the holy spook.
That means nonbelievers blaspheme every day not just today.
Well, just to be sure, I have my bases covered and have both.
We have to remember here folks that the humans who wrote this crap were about ten hairs away from being baboons, and also believed in talking donkeys etc… so it follows that they would have very primitive concepts. Oh and I reject/renounce and flip the finger at the spooky Holy Spirit.
Woah woah woah/
This is a common talking point and is really not true at all. The Old Testament was NOT compiled by herdsmen in tents but was a compilation of legends and myths designed to make the ethnic group look more important. It was compiled by by leaened rabbis and scholars during the Babylonian captivity in an urban setting…these were big city people, not goat herders.
Whatever that means…the implication that rural people are automatically more ignorant than city folks (gangsta rappers…or South Boston segregationists)…or modern people (Honey Booo Boo, anyone. Paul Ryan, for that matter)is pure prejudice.
Anyway, the New Testament was definitely not written by people a few steps from baboons either. Now, admittedly their ideas were not scientific in any way, of course, and there is a lot of airy fairy nonsense, but that is true of modern people as well.
Not being a concern troll. This is just one of my pet peeves about in group Atheist discussions…the othering and sneering dismissal of earlier people.
Still, the very word pagan is derived from the Latin term for farmer or rural person. I suspect that it refers to the tendency of non city dwellers to be more conservative (or not up on the latest religion.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism
Nothing cuter than a kitten — except a Scottish Fold kitten. Take that, PZ!
So why aren’t christians running around committing all kinds of evil and wickedness then asking to be forgiven if they make it to, say, 40 years old? Oh, right, it’s because they don’t believe it either.
Personally I like to blaspheme against the whole trinity.
Figure they will eternally fight amongst themselves to see which gets to punish me the most.
Pops, Junior and Spooky.
In Spainish we have the blasphemous phrases “me cago en Dios” and “me cago en la virgen”, I use them all the time. Me cago en dios means I shit on God while me cago en la virgen means I shit on the virgin. I invite you all to use them at your discretion. Saludos.
The funny thing is that, even though I’ve rejected the Holy Spirit, I still get Christians trying to convert me, as if they don’t understand their own mythology, or, as is most likely the case, they just don’t care. Unfortunately, I run into quite a few Christians who are all too willing to set aside the Bible if it gets in the way of their feeling good about their beliefs.
@Trebuchet – Nooo! Please don’t spread the idea that Scottish Folds are cute. They are suffering from a cartilage disorder. All Fold cats suffer from variable degrees of painful degenerative joint disease. Breeders should not be encouraged to fix in genes for painful short-lived kittehs just because “ZOMG it’s so CYOOT!”
Yep. Rape is forgivable, murder is forgivable, genocide if forgivable, but tossing a Jesus cracker into the garbage is not.
~That’s not blaspheming the holy spirit, LRN some religion.
Ditto Manx cats: it’s a semi-lethal gene and 1/4 of the kittens are born dead, 1/2 with variable truncations of the spine, and 1/4 normal.
Just goes to show how thin and brittle are both the faith of the faithful and the invisible supernatural spook they invest their faith in actually is.
Why this never occurs to them is a mystery to me. Unless, that is, they are not big enough people to not rely on the faithiness thing in the first place. That would explain it.
“Meme-virus” is what springs to mind for tropes like that. It’s all about perpetuating an idea without merit. Invent a danger with the meme that is also prevented by the same meme. Once a child is in the loop, it’s hard to get them out. I’m very glad Hell was almost never brought up in my childhood, only later, when I was rational enough to notice that the very idea of an eternal torture chamber directly contradicted God’s omnibenevolence. So when a new Sunday school teacher expressed the idea of Hell for disbelief, the fact that he was tolerated ended my relationship with the church, which eventually lead me to the blasphemer I am today.
The context of this scriptural quote needs to be kept in mind. Jesus was being accused of casting out devils by the power of Beealzebub, the chief devil. In other words, he was either in league with the devil or a devil himself. Therefore, accussing Jesus of being a devil or of being in league with the devil is the real meaning of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. According to the likes of Thomas Aquinas, the blasphemy is unforgiveable since one who subscribes to it could never truly accept Jesus as a savior. Why? Because they’re rejecting God’s/the Holy Spirit’s favor (grace), which incidentally goes against Calvinism. So, just saying that “I deny the Holy Spirit” is not, as many misunderstand, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
It’s my understanding that some folks made statements of denial of the Holy Spirit on YouTube (Daniel Dennett, Richard Dawkins for instance). Fortunately for them (?), they did not commit the blasphemy.
Incidentally, I’m a fallen-away Catholic and an agnostic who is just trying to set the facts straight.
Ah, thanks for that. In that case… Jesus is, and was, THE DEVIL!!!111 There, I can now enjoy a fictional hell from a fictional religion. :)
Damn. I need to keep up on my blasphemy lore. Thank you very much sir.
Jesus, who is the devil, you are in cahoots with Beealzebub, who is Satan, or something. You are the cause of all that is evil and suffering in the world. You tempt people’s souls away from salvation. And you stink.
Reminds me of The Blasphemy Challenge that the Rational Response Squad created some years back — make a YouTube video of you committing this ultimate blasphemy.
As to that connection with Jesus Christ being accused of getting Beelzebub’s help when working miracles, I don’t see the connection. It seems to me that that those accusers were not exactly rationalist skeptics — sure, he worked all those miracles, but the Devil helped him.
Metallica reference FTW (or is it FTB?)
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