I am now an “Enemy of the Republic” and my First hate mail

I guess people got a little heated over the removal of some plastic figurines from Shaw AF Base.

Fox News

Of course…Fox News ran with this story and Todd Starnes in all his brilliance made some “phone calls” to discover that removing the nativity display aboard Shaw AF Base was actually unconstitutional. Is this where I get to – “lol, smiley face”? Starnes is always good for a laugh. Shortly after his puff piece was published online I received an email from someone who apparently reposted Starnes puff piece with one added sentence – that Mikey and I are ‘self-identified’ enemies of the Republic. It’s always good to have fans…smh

Speaking of fans..

I got my first hate mail.

From: “Paul and Xxxxx Xxxxxxxxx” <xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.com>
Date: December 9, 2013 at 3:41:05 PM EST
To: <xxxxxxxxxxx@militaryreligiousfreedom.org>
Subject:Shaw Air Force Base

Ms Weinstein,
As I think Mikey Weinstein is your husband and you probably know Paul Loebe please give them a msg for me: grow up you little pissants. Glad I never served with cry babies like you when I was in the service. I do not give a monkey’s ass what a persons religious affiliation is or is not, freaks like you who cannot just leave things alone and must pound the table like you have PMS do nothing to make anything better. So what if you are godless, I couldn’t care less and if you want to put up a godless display go ahead, most rational human beings wouldn’t give a crap unless they were insensitive, arrogant, childish, intolerant, histrionically challenged individuals like yourselves. Your actions do nothing but sow division and acrimony. IDIOTS!
Paul Xxxxxxxxx
I sent this response

Mr Xxxxxxxxx,

I’m sorry to hear that your oath to “uphold and defend the Constitution” was not something you took serious. When I made that oath I meant it! It was something that I took to heart. In my time in service I have ensured that any Constitutional infraction that I witnessed was corrected both in uniform, whether it having been in both the wars of Iraq and Afghanistan in which I proudly served, or back here in the great United States of America. The Establishment Clause of our dear Constitution clearly states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” and all Department of Defense regulations are required to follow that edict. I am sorry that you have been unable or unwilling to follow the historical precedent set forth in case law whether it be from Everson vs. Board of Education, Abbington vs Schemmp, or Epperson vs. Arkansas. Those cases are just the tip of the iceberg and I do sincerely hope you pull your head out of the sand, research what small amount of information I have provided you, and understand that all branches of the government are required to remain secular.

No one here at the Military Religious Freedom Foundation cares in the least what type of worship a person performs in their home, church, or chapel. But when you attempt to subjugate the government and enforce your religious will upon it I will be there, ready to face you. I have sworn my life to defend the Constitution and I will do everything in my power to see that it remains intact beyond my own short years.

Semper Fidelis

Very Respectfully,
Paul Loebe
Special Projects Manager
Military Religious Freedom Foundation

*Disclaimer: Although I am a Marine Sergeant my views do not reflect the views of the Department of Defense, U.S. Marine Corps, or any affiliated branches.*

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About Paul Loebe
  • B.J.D

    What assholes (I am, of course referring to the MRFF).

    • Sven2547

      How so?

      • B.J.D

        How so … how about live and let live.

        • Sven2547

          Great idea. Stop pooping on the Establishment Clause and we can all go about our merry way.

          • Paul Loebe

            This is my favorite comment ever!

        • Derpington_The_Third

          You seem to fail to see the irony.

    • Paul Loebe

      Obvious troll is obvious? No?

    • Golf4me

      BJD you are the first person that stated the truth on this blog.

    • godlessveteran

      BJD speaks of himself and the golfer, obviously.

      • Golf4me

        No Godless, you are brainless. Look up what the MRFF stands for
        and BJD was right on the money. Get your ass up in a plane, and when the plane is heading for a crash you will begging for God to look after your dumb ass. And when your little Atheist ass hits the ground the Devil will be laughing and welcoming you aboard.

        • godlessveteran

          Ignorant trash you are… I’ve been in plenty of serious situations, and not once did it ever cross my mind to grovel to your bogeyman. Instead, I calmly and rationally took control of the situations I could influence, and calmly and rationally rode out the ones I could not. Your ignorant twaddle does not impress me, nor does your silly deity. I contend it’ll be your ignorant ass that splats while you waste your time screaming like a little girl to Jesus. I couldn’t even laugh at the irony because that’s such a pathetic way to die.

  • http://www.stupid-files.blogspot.com WriterWriter

    Great response. Great PATRIOTIC response. People don’t seem to understand how a secular government supports their religious freedom. The second that government picks a “team” the battle lines are drawn INSIDE that government’s country.

    • Paul Loebe

      And how!

  • Fallulah

    I’m confused about the first part of this post. Did Starnes say it was unconstitutional to REMOVE the scene?

    • Paul Loebe

      He did. He’s an idiot that only uses the press to push his own career forward. No character whatsoever.

      • Golf4me

        You call Starnes an idiot, but I think if you look in a mirror you will see the bigger idiot. Anyone that complains about a Nativity scene should have their head examined.

        • Paul Loebe

          Who cares about the nativity scene? Unless you think Jesus outweighs the Constitution. You’re not that stupid…are you???

          • Golf4me

            If thinking this country has freedom of religion, and we have the right to believe what we want to then I guess I am that stupid. You probably are a Muslim so you don’t like it when we Christians want to put up a Nativity scene. You seem to go ballistic about the Nativity scene so you must care. No the Constitution gives me the right to believe in Jesus, only you
            non-believers want to compare Jesus to the Constitution. I guess you burn all the money you get ahold of since it mentions God.

          • Paul Loebe

            So which is it? Am I a Muslim or a non-believer? Lol

          • Retired vet

            You are just a little boy who wants attention and this is how you get it. You actually have a more common with the Hillsborough baptist church.

            You both have extreme ideologies that you force on people far in distance away from you for attention in the news.

            You both use lawyers and laws in a despicable manner in times and moments important to other people and you take enjoyment in ruining those moments.

            Your organization is made up of like minded individuals who single most important things in their lives is your organization.

            You both have inability to examine your actions outside of your belief bubble.

            People who are family and not in your bubble are ashamed of your actions.

            You get a trill whenever the news agencies show up and it shows in your quotes and your posts.

            Stand back and look at your actions objectivity. Wait, you can’t, narcissism can never be self diagnosed…

          • Paul Loebe

            I’ve not spoken to a single member of the press about this. I’m surprised at how much it’s blown up. And it’s Westboro Baptist Church, btw…

            Thanks retired vet! Keep reading my blog. I appreciate it.

          • godlessveteran

            Hillsborough, Westboro, what, you expect the troll to fact check his bigoted attack? Meh.

          • eccles11

            Hey, we have a cereal box psychiatrist here.

          • JohnH2

            Then you won’t complain if someone makes a loving display of the worship of Tlalac on your front lawn?

          • Golf4me

            John it is spelled Tlaloc, and yes you can put one on my front lawn if I can put a statue of Jesus on your front lawn.

          • JohnH2

            A few faulty assumptions there: 1. that I have a lawn be it front or otherwise. 2. that I don’t already have a nativity set up. Both are false.

            Besides which if you had my permission to place it somewhere that would be different then you waking up one morning to find a loving depiction of blood sacrifices to Tlaloc set up on your lawn. Like if the nativity had been set up at the base chapel with the approval of the Air Force in an area where others are able to set up their own displays then it would have been fine.

          • Golf4me

            Who told the people on the base that no other displays could be set up. No you non-believers don’t give other folks a chance to set up what ever they want to. I have never seen people so cruel and hateful as you Atheist,
            that is probably because you have no faith in anything but yourself. You make a challenge to me but then you chicken out. You probably live in a trailer so you don’t have a front or back yard. Anyway I feel sorry for you, but I wish you a
            very merry Christmas.

          • JohnH2

            I am not an atheist, I consider myself a Christian.

            Other displays and the nativity can (and is) be set up, at the base chapel.

            I didn’t chicken out, I have a nativity set up in my apartment, clearly if I lived in a trailer I would have something that could be considered a front yard.

            Merry Christmas to you.

          • Golf4me

            You are a non-believing Muslim, who can not prove one thing he says. And if believers want to put up a Nativity Scene and they are in the Air Force they should be able to do that, and you Atheist should be able to put up your Swastika where you want to.

          • godlessveteran

            The swastika is a symbol of Indian origin, co-opted by the very Christian Nazi Party. Atheists wouldn’t want to put them up because they would match your home decor.

          • Paul Loebe

            A non-believing muslim atheist with a christian tattoo who who wants to display a swastika, which is actually a pacific symbol similar to the yin-yang that was co-opted by the Nazi’s to be used politically.

            You really are a gem.

          • godlessveteran

            The Constitution gives you the right to believe in Jesus, but not to erect your religious trinkets anywhere you want on a military base. And there is no comparison between the Constitution and Jeebus. The Constitution is real, and the law of the land, while Jeebus is a myth for terrifying small children into submission.

          • ROCKHARD

            No. No.. he is not Muslim.. its not Muslims but mostly Jews al behind the attack on Christmas… look at their names..they lie and pretend to be atheist.. to cover who they really are..

        • JohnH2

          Anyone that complains about a scene of the birth of the Hero Twins from Lady Blood should have their head examined. Anyone that complains about scenes of worship to Tlaloc should have their head examined. Or Marduk and Tiamat, or the story of Ganesha born of Shiva, or so on.

  • dagobarbz

    That’s a damn fine response you got there. I’d be proud if I’d written it. :)

    • Paul Loebe

      Thank you

  • jjramsey

    I’m just surprised that it took this long before you got your first hate mail.

    • Paul Loebe

      As am I.

      • Golf4me

        Paul since you are such a hater of religion would you please explain what part of the Constitution the nativity scene at Shaw AFB violated. Are you an American? Why don’t you Atheist put up your own scene, I bet no Christians would raised Hell about your scene like you raised about theirs.

        • Paul Loebe

          The Establishment Clause.

          • Golf4me

            Paul you must not have read the Establishment clause.
            Below is what it says.

            At an absolute minimum, the Establishment Clause was intended to prohibit the federal government from declaring and financially supporting a national religion, such as existed in many other countries at the time of the nation’s founding.

            So again I ask how does the Nativity scene have anything to do with the Constitution. You better go back to school and learn to read.

          • Sven2547

            The Supreme Court has made it pretty clear that the Establishment Clause also prohibits the government from exercising the preferential treatment of any particular religion. A Nativity scene on federal property does exactly that.

            Tell me: which tenet of Christianity calls for putting religious monuments on property you don’t own?

          • Derpington_The_Third

            You might need to learn how to read, because a federal building putting up a nativity scene on its property on YOURS and MY dollar are sure as hell supporting a national religion.

            Pull your head out of your ass numbskull.

          • JohnH2

            Obviously, if the Air Force was the one that authorized putting it up that would be true, if however private individuals put it up then I imagine it probably violates a decent number of other laws and only touches the establishment clause if the Air Force were to allow it to remain.

            If you were to build a small shack and place plastic lawn furniture at that spot then you wouldn’t have violated the Establishment clause or caused the Air Force to do so, but you would still have violated laws.

        • http://skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

          Want to bet? I mean, for real. Name the stakes.

          https://www.google.com/search?q=solstice+sign+vandalized

          • Golf4me

            How about $10,000.00 American.

        • ROCKHARD

          He doesn’t hate religion. his mission is just to attack Christianity.. he belongs to another religion that is the only religion that always sues Christians… no other religion in America sue Christians.. not Hindus.. Buddhist.. not even Muslims don’t sue.. its just that one chosen religion who think they are above all people.. WENSTIENS TYPES..

  • Destruction

    #wrekt

  • http://secularokie.wordpress.com/ Brenda Weber

    Ha! I’m still trying to get my head around HIM calling YOU “insensitive, arrogant, childish, intolerant, histrionically challenged”. And here I thought 9/11 was supposed to have killed irony, guess not.

  • http://www.theoddsmustbecrazy.com/ Wendy Hughes

    Excellent essay. Sorry about the trolls and hate mail. <3

  • http://karlaporter.com/ Karla Porter

    Logicial this type of controversial move gets some knickers twisted – it happens every single time as we know. Keep chipping away, you have my support. XO

  • Guest

    Just an update: You didn’t get the display removed. The volunteer group that put it up voluntarily removed it pending a legal review. The review was finalized yesterday and found no regs. were violated. This is because all lay and community leaders (including secular) in the area were contacted in late October with an invitation to participate in the holiday display on the base. The only lay leader that responded was from the Jewish community and that was to tell the Wing Chaplain that they opted to place the Menorah in downtown Sumter because Chanukkah didn’t coincide with Christmas this year and placing it downtown brought out a larger crowd.

    You got your 15 minutes, great job! Hope you enjoyed it. As for the nativity, it’s being put back up today at noon with a small ceremony. Didn’t MRFF try this crap at Travis AFB a couple years ago and the same crap happened? You just stuck your foot in your mouth and now look silly, yet again.

    I hope you come up with a good retraction of your previous claims. Then again, you’ve said enough and should probably stop while you’re ahead.

    • Paul Loebe

      Priscilla Parker,

      How are you? Actually, they are placing it at the chapel like we advised them initially. Have a fantastic day and a merry christmas!

      • Guest

        Paul Loebe,

        I’m well, thank you. How are you? True, they did put it up at the Chapel like Mikey asked so I suppose you DID accomplish something. But your assertion, at least the way it’s come across, had to do with public forums and each demographic being equally represented, which I agree with. To claim they weren’t isn’t true, they were given the opportunity and are still being extended an invitation but no other group has opted to participate. You have acquaintances at Shaw. All they need do is contact the Chaplaincy and ask to put up a display and they’ll get it. Why not encourage them to follow this guys lead:

        http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rockbeyondbelief/2011/12/17/air-force-changes-mind-atheist-holiday-display-now-welcome-at-travis-afb/

        I just hope you use your position to encourage people to respect others and work with them, regardless of their belief. Being in the military is hard enough on service members and their families, as I’m sure you know. If gathering together for the holidays makes it a little easier for some, why not let them have it?

        I hope you and yours have a Happy Holiday too.

        • Paul Loebe

          Correct. Now that it is up in the appropriate place it is welcome as a public forum. If anyone wishes to put up a display alongside it and is denied then that is a problem. As it stands currently, I have no issue with it.

          • Guest

            I’m just curious. How is the display being at the lake an issue. What reg did it violate and are you suggesting that it was moved to the Chapel because it violated some post reg. cause that isn’t the case either here.a no public forum is just that and is subject to the ‘compatible use’ test to determine permissibility on the installation, regardless of where the display was placed. It’s no more or less permissible at the Chapel then anywhere else on base because in both settings, other groups can place a their display just as the volunteer group has.

            Not trying to argue cause the whole thing is over now, I’m just not following your reasons of justification for location. As far as whether it went against AFI 1-1 Sec. 2-11, it didn’t, in either instance because the group that put it up took it down, without Command having to get involved. Legal has, for the second time now, determined this ‘issue’ isn’t one. Can you clarify what reg/law/Instruction/directive prohibited the nativity scene from being placed where it was?

          • Paul Loebe

            Lemon vs Kurtzman, 1971

            Allegheny County vs ACLU, 1989

            Among many other cases seen by the SCOTUS. But those two specifically apply.

          • Guest

            I figured those were the two cases you’d cite, and that’s accurate. However, the Lemon test simply enforces that the display have a secular (that does not mean no religion) purpose. In this instance, as in the past, it does.

            As far as it being placed at the chapel I’m still not getting why you’re ok with that but not with its original location. All military installations are ‘no public forums,’ right? So regardless of whether it was placed at the chapel or the lake, it’s still on the installation. Chapel grounds don’t have a distinguishable ‘status’ separate from the rest of the post. What determines legality in this issue is time (the holiday season), space (regardless of where on post it’s placed, as long as there is enough room for all displays), and location (the appropriate venue is assigned to accommodate displays/attendees to a particular event, etc.)

            I personally think it belongs at the chapel as well but the religiosity of the symbol does not determine that. I just don’t get why you went off the deep end on something so minuscule. Of all the fucked up shit the military engages in, you want to focus your energy on a crèche? I think that’s what has ppl so confused.

          • Paul Loebe

            This was really one of the smaller cases we’ve taken. Remember, we have 35,000 cases. This one just got recognized by the press.

            There are other far more pressing ones that never make it to public light. Everything you hear in the media isn’t everything that’s actually going on. Please remember that.

            In many instances the real important cases can’t be publicized until after someone retires because they are living in a state of fear of retribution. We can’t disclose their identity because they’ve requested us not to.

            This issue took us a matter of a couple phone calls, a couple emails, and we were busy doing other things in the mean time.

            And yes, the placement of the display is very important. Remember that the military is also being viewed internationally. If the perception is that it is a “Christian military” by people with ill intent around the world then it creates unnecessary risk for our troops because of something as lame as this.

          • Guest

            Do you honestly believe what you said here? Who are you trying to convince? I spoke with the Chaplaincy and Command at Shaw so I know happened and dumb this whole thing was. But what do you care? Anything to sell a story, right?

            You spend so much time trying to portray this image ( still can’t figure if you want ppl to see you as a bad ass or dumb ass but whatever gives you meaning in life) but you don’t take the time to stop and critique it. If you did, perhaps you’d see how silly it is.

            You and Mikey claimed this nativity scene violated AFI 1-1 Sec. 2.11 yet the legal review found otherwise. And to date, you still can’t answer how a plastic display is unconstitutional or what regs. it violated. How convenient it must be to hide behind anonymity, not to mention a lawyer (some might call that cowardly.) ; )

          • Paul Loebe

            Let me guess….
            You covered four wars with a pen, right?

  • ROCKHARD

    Wow! the same intolerant bigots again attacking anything Christians at the same time are silent when another religion puts up their huge religious symbols… I also cannot help but notice the attacks on Christians come from the same little special cult who think they control America… shame on you people…

    MERRY CHRISTMAS AND THE MORE THE ANTI CHRISTIAN RACIST ATTACK THE LOUDER WE WILL ALSO BECOME IN SUPPORT OF CHRISTIANITY AND THE LORD JESUS CHRIST..

    • Paul Loebe

      Wha?…

      Go to school. Learn something.

      • ROCKHARD

        Why don’t you go do something useful with your life ? instead of attacking other peoples religion ? are you that sad and lonely you need to go after people celebrating their religion ? does baby Jesus scare you so much you lose sleep ? what sad people you really must be deep inside.. you see other people love their religion and you must go after them. and I noticed its the same type of people suing Christians all over the country.. you think you fooling anyone by hiding under atheism ?

        • Paul Loebe

          What…the fuck…..did you just…..say?!?!

          • ROCKHARD

            I said you are a bigot with no life. who is hiding under atheism to attack only one religion, and that’s Christianity… we know this is all Jewish cults doing.. most so called atheist groups are Jewish and your aim is to attack Christianity… I see Jews allowed to put up huge Menorahs in public property without any law suits… you people are full anti Christian racist bigots…

          • Paul Loebe

          • ROCKHARD

            I have something better for you Jewish anti Christian haters… you will never defeat Jesus Christ the Lord..

            the US AIR FORCE SINGING JOY TO THE WORLD IN JESUS NAME.. and like I said you not fooling anyone with your fake atheism… you not being good Jews.. hahah…

          • Paul Loebe

            I’m not Jewish. I’m going to block if you unless you bring something intellectual to the table. You are a troll.


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